>> announcer: "this week with george stephanopoulos" starts right now. biden jumps in. >> we're in the battle for the soul of this nation. >> the taunts from president trump. >> can you imagine sleepy joe? >> and tricky questions from his past. >> i think what she wants you to say is i'm sorry for the way i treated you, not for the way you were treated. >> i'm sorry the way she got treated. i don't think i treated her badly. >> the former vp's long history gives him a leg up in our brand-new poll but his age and experience also a challenge for primary voters demanding change. can he break away from a crowded pack for the chance to take on president trump? and trump stonewalls congress. >> the subpoena is ridiculous. we're fighting all the subpoenas. >> as democrats debate impeachment. >> impeachment is one of the most divisive forces. we're not threaty. >> i believe we need to get rid

of this president. >> he has made it pretty clear he deserves impeach many. >> we tack it all with our powerhouse roundtable. legal experts dan abrams and alan dershowitz and democratic congressman jim clyburn from south carolina. we'll break down the politics, smoke out the spin. the facts that matter this week. >> announcer: from abc news, it's "this week." here now, chief anchor, george stephanopoulos. good morning. and welcome to "this week." as we come on the air some headlines from our brand-new poll with "the washington post." despite a strong economy, the president's approval ratings still below 40%. with a career average the lowest on record for modern presidents and just over a week since the release of the mueller report, a majority of americans find it fair and evenhanded. just three in ten buy the president's claim that he was exonerated by the special live 0 counsel, and almost six in ten say he lie the about matters

investigated by mueller. but support for impeachment has dropped. just 37% a new low think congress should start impeachment proceedings and nearly half the country say it won't be a factor in their vote for president. and as that race heats up, our new poll points to a modest front-runner, fresh off his announcement on thursday, joe biden leads the primary pack at 17%. bernie sanders next at 11% with pete buttigieg pulling up into third place at 5% just ahead of elizabeth warren, kamala harris and beto o'rourke but with 35% not yet ready to name a favorite, there is plenty of room for change. and the poll lays bare a real debate about what democrats are looking for in 2020. voters split on key questions of strategy and electability. should they pick a candidate based on issues or who is more likely to beat trump? a candidate likely to energize the base or appeal to democrats. those dnas are far from settled. a lot to suit through in the months ahead, and we begin this morning with the

senior democrat from the key primary state of south carolina, the number three democrat in the house, majority whip jim clyburn. congressman, thank you for joining us this morning. i want to get to the poll in the presidential race. first your reaction to that synagogue shooting yesterday in poway in california, six months to the day of the shooting in pittsburgh at the tree of life synagogue. and the killer is referencing the massacre in new zealand as well. there does seem to be an unmistakable pattern here. >> there is and thank you so much for having me this morning. it's interesting that this is a sunday morning for us in the christian faith that is a holy day. i happen to represent charleston and i have been a proponent of hr-1112, because we believe that a climate that has existed in this country over the last several years that glorifies guns in such a way that people feel emboldened to use them to settle whatever grief they may have.

those nine souls at emanuel ame church down in charleston are on my mind daily. i think about them. i spoke at one of those funerals and so i am very concerned that we do not start some discussions and take some actions that will deglorify guns and that we cool our hate speech. there is just too much acrimony in our electoral process, in our interactions with each other, and we need some leadership on this from our political leaders, from the white house on down. i do believe that the climate in this country is pretty much dictated by our elected officials and we ought to do what is necessary to calm some of that rhetoric. >> as you know, congressman, the president quickly and forcefully

condemned the shooting yesterday but we also saw him this week doubling down this week on his reaction to the white supremacy rally in charlottesville, virginia, saying there were fine people on both sides. that was his comment then and in response to vice president biden's -- former vice president's biden announcement video, here's what the president said after that. >> and if you look at what i said, you will see that that question was answered perfectly and i was talking about people that went because they felt very strongly about the monument to robert e. lee, a great general, whether you like it or not, he was one of the great generals. >> the president doesn't seem to be backing away at all from those comments about charlottesville. >> oh, because i think he's expressing what is in his heart. the fact of the matter is, robert e. lee was a great tactician, was not a great person. robert e. lee was a slave owner and a brutal slave master.

thankfully he lost that war and i find it kind of interesting the president is now glorifying a loser. he always said that he hated losers. robert e. lee was a loser and even if you could get beyond that, at the end of the civil war, robert e. lee asked all of his comrades to lay down their guns and to furl those confederate flags, and if my memory serves, and put them in your attics, so if the president is going to glorify robert e. lee, let's at least be consistent about it. >> do you think that vice president biden, former vice president biden was right to focus his announcement video on charlottesville? >> absolutely because i think that's what the crux of this campaign is going to be about is going to be about who can bring this country together and for

anybody who is running for the presidential nomination on the democratic side, i think you've got to focus on bringing this country together on the domestic front and you've got to think about our international relationships around the world. the fact of the matter is, joe biden getting into this race, i think allows us to bring into this discussion the foreign policy that is a problem for us these days. we have a president in the white house who is rupturing our relationships with our allies all around the world and there are people out there who are saying they cannot trust the united states of america anymore to lead on foreign policy. that is a foreign relationship for us. we have got to do something about improving our relationships around the world as well as trying to have the domestic tranquility and bring our people together. >> you play such a key role in the state of south carolina.

that early primary state coming up next year. is joe biden the man to beat in the democratic primary there right now? >> that's what it looks like. i've seen your poll, and i don't find anything to disagree with in that poll. i have talked to people here in south carolina, and i believe that at this point in time joe biden is probably the leader, the question is whether or not he can maintain that lead, and i think that you're right that sanders is a close second to him right now, but the campaign is early, and there have been some tremendous rollouts here in the state. kamala harris is doing very well. cory booker has been spending a lot of time in the rural communities here in south carolina, and i have been saying forever that democrats are going to have to improve our status

among rural voters, because you have to remember over 50% of african-americans in this country still live in the south. and the south is basically rural and if you are going to win, you're going to have to energize that vote, and i don't believe you can do it by running from east coast to west coast stopping off at the major cities and not playing closer attention to what's going on in these rural communities because that's where our goal is going to be made. >> are you going to endorse and how are you going to make a decision? >> well, i'm making my decisions in consultations with my family. i have three daughters, three of them are pretty active politically. and i listen to them, talk with them a lot. my wife stays on the internet keeping up with these candidates. we talk about it a lot. i have a network here in the state that i consult with quite

a bit. i don't call it anything but a network of people with whom i interact politically and professionally, and i'm going to be talking to them about how i should conduct myself going forward and when i should take any actions if i should at all. >> let's talk about your responsibilities in the house as well, of course, impeachment on the table right now. as you saw in our poll just 37% of the country now supports the idea of impeachment yet candidates like elizabeth warren say that the congress has a responsibility to act. i want to play that. >> we have checks and balances and we have to proceed here in a way understanding our place in history that not only protects democracy now but protects democracy when the next president comes in and the next president and the president after that. >> she says there's no political inconvenience exception constitution to that.

congress has a duty to move. >> yes, congress does have a duty and i think mr. mueller laid out for us a road map but what people seem not to be talking about is mueller also said that under this road map there are some barricades that were erected. some road blocks he ran up against and he says that the best vehicle to get around this -- these barricades and road blocks is the congress and then we are going to do our work but we're not going to do it haphazardly. we have six committees who are looking at this president and looking at his past activities, ways and means trying to get to his tax records, we got financial services looking at his relationships with banks around the country. we've got government ops looking at his activities as it relates to the oversight responsibilities they have. the justice department -- i mean the judicial committee looking

at the ways to proceed on getting the people before their committee that can testify and help us build a record, timing is everything in this business. and there's one thing to run out -- down a route toward impeachment. it's something else to lay a foundation, gather the facts, educate the american people so that we can see exactly what needs to be done and when we should do it. >> congressman clyburn, thanks for your time this morning. >> well, thank you so much for having me. we're going to dig in more now on that impeachment debate. so much turns on the question of the evidence laid out by robert mueller on obstruction of justice. the special counsel decided he couldn't charge the president but couldn't clear him either, in, he attorney general stepped president said about that on friday. >> we essentially get a ruling, no obstruction based on the facts. our great attorney general made an immediate decision there was no obstruction.

>> but that conclusion contradicted even by one of trump's usual defenders, judge andrew napolitano from fox news. >> when the president has corey lewandowski, his former campaign manager to get mueller fired, that's obstruction of justice. when the president asked his then white house counsel to get mueller fired and then lie about it, that's obstruction of justice. when he asked don mcgahn to go back to the special counsel and change his testimony, that's obstruction of justice. when he dangled a pardon in front of michael cohen in order to keep cohen from testifying against him, that's obstruction of justice. >> and our new poll shows a close division. 47% say the president did obstruct justice, 41% say he did not. let's bring in our legal experts abc chief legal analyst dan abrams and alan dershowitz. on the special counsel counsel's findings, an introduction

to the mueller report. welcome to you both, and, dan, it's interesting that the public is divided on this question because if you just look at mueller's report, it seems kind of equivocal. do you believe that he, though, was laying out the idea that president trump obstructed justice? >> i don't think there's any question that robert mueller believed that the president obstructed justice. so then why wouldn't he have said it? he made it clear in his introduction to the section on obstruction of justice, he said, number one, a sitting president can't be indicted. number two, we can't even accuse him of a crime in this report because that would be improper. but if we could exonerate him, we would, and we can't. that's it, and then they lay out -- and i'm not saying in every single one of the 10 or 11 instances he believes there was obstruction but i think certainly with regard to don mcgahn if you read that carefully. >> this idea he was asked by the president to fire robert mueller. >> and then to lie about it and then to lie about the conversation. i think it is clear that robert mueller, if this were a different, situation wouldn't be saying he obstructed justice in

the case of don mcgahn. >> i agree. i think he's dead wrong. in my introduction i argue i think very compellingly that you have to have an act of a crime and the act of a crime, the act cannot be the exercise of a constitutional authority under article 2. the president had the authority to fire comey. comey said that himself and the president had the authority to do virtually everything he did. >> mueller takes on that argument directly in his report. >> i know, and he's wrong. he's wrong. the best analogy and he does not mention this in the book and it is an outrage he doesn't mention it. the largest -- the most important precedent is the decision by george h.w. bush to pardon caspar weinberger. he did that to stop the investigation. the special prosecutor said he did it to stop the investigation and yet nobody suggested obstruction of justice because the president has the power to pardon and the president has the power to fire. so you can't both have the power to do it under the constitution and that be the act that gives rise to an obstruction of justice. >> look, just to be clear,

alan's position is a minority position in the legal community. >> but it's right. >> it may be right but it's a minority position in the legal community but let me ask you this, allan. >> sure. >> what about the fact that he according to the report is telling mcgahn to lie. is that a little bit different? that's not about firing, right? >> yeah, no, you're right. if he told mcgahn to lie to a federal official, that's what nixon did, and nixon was guilty of obstruction. if there were evidence that the president told some subordinate to lie to a government official -- >> what if he just said to lie. >> no. that's not obstruction of justice. it's not a crime to lie. if it were we'd have no politicians in america. >> wait, wait. during an investigation in the course of an investigation when the media comes sniffing about the mcgahn issue and the president allegedly instructs or asks mcgahn to lie as far as you're concerned that's okay. >> not as far as i'm concerned. the law. >> your minority position of the interpretation of the law. >> my majority position is that the law says it's a crime to lie to an fbi official and a crime to lie to a grand jury.

nowhere does it say it's a crime to lie to the media and under our system of law unless it is specified as a crime in the statute book, it's not a crime. we don't live in the soviet union where unless it's legal everything is illegal. we live in a country where unless it's specifically illegal it may be immoral but it's not illegal to lie to the media. >> no, i understand. that's why we have broad laws, right? they're called obstruction of justice. >> they're terrible laws and terrible libertarians oppose them. >> that's fine. you may think they're terrible but the notion there's not a law on the books is nonsense. there is a law on the books. it's a question of whether it fits into the statute. >> the law on thokul criminalize every politician in america today, and it would give too much discretion to prosecutors to pick and choose which lies to go after. >> alan, let me ask if this would extend to high crimes and misdemeanors. even if you believe that this could not be breaking the law, firing comey or asking mueller to be fired, do you believe it is an abuse of power or as some have suggested that it would be showing the president is not

faithfully executing the laws, upholding his oath? >> that's a fair point, but not impeachable offense. what bill clinton did was a crime but not a high crime and what president trump may have done was high but it wasn't a crime. you need both. you need a high crime. you can't find that in the mueller report any more than you could have found in the starr report a high crime against bill clinton. it would be a mistake to impeach either of them. the republicans made that mistake against clinton. the democrats i hope will not make that mistake against trump. >> here's the problem when you combine alan dershowitz theory with -- alan dershowitz's theory there shouldn't have been a special counsel and also that you can't obstruct justice if you're the president and you're doing something that you have the power to do no matter what the intent is, et cetera. >> you don't get to intent until you get to the act. >> that's alan dershowitz's theory. now congress should not be engaging in oversight. the subpoena shouldn't be valid. none of his people should be

complying. >> i don't agree. >> take the two together. trump and dershowitz and suddenly you have no presidential accountability. none, zero. >> that's why you need to have checks and balances. why it is appropriate for congress to issue subpoenas. but this is a perfect case for checks and balances. the president has the right to oppose the subpoenas and the courts have the oversight over whether congress has overreacted so we're going to be an interesting -- >> does blanket stonewalling on all the subpoena, particularly on these questions dealing with the mueller report, does that end up conte instituting another obstructive act? >> absolutely not. the courts are entitled to strike him down. what the courts will do, they'll look at every subpoena and say there is no broad opposition to responding to subpoenas, but in this case maybe congress went too far. that's what happened during the mccarthy period. the courts said congress went too far. if the courts conclude that the democrats are using this for partisan advantage rather than for legitimate oversight, then the courts will -- >> but time is on the president's side. and so -- >> that's a political issue. >> it's a legal issue, right,

because the courts will take a while to resolve this and the question becomes enforceability. typically when congress believes someone has been -- should be held in contempt of congress you send them to the department of justice and say, hey, department of justice, you should force them. >> or you can put them in the basement of the capitol. >> send the old sergeant of arms out. back in the day they'd send the sergeant of arms out. that won't happen. >> if the court tells the president to comply he'll do it. >> on documents and testimony? i'm not so sure. >> well, remember we do have the -- both the nixon case and the clinton case, and the courts do have the power to enforce subpoenas against the president but will look at every subpoena and they will see whether or not this was abuse of congress. we are living through a perfect example of whether our system of checks and balances and separation of powers works. >> if you put dershowitz and trump together, there is no such. >> i take a separate position from trump on this issue. >> that's all we have time for today. thank you both very much. roundtable is up next. we'll be right back. welcome to our busy world. where we all want more energy.

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senator joseph biden of delaware, chairman of the senate judiciary committee, will today announce that he is a candidate for the presidency. the knock on joe biden is that he is long on inspirational speeches and short on specifics. true? >> no, not true, charlie. i've been a senator for 15 years. i've been deeply involved in international as well as domestic issues, and i am anxious and ready as they say in the trade to have my record examined. >> senator biden, you are going to announce wednesday you are in the race. >> i'm the 800th candidate. >> exactly, david letterman. first test, 25 words or less why should democrats nominate you. >> because the president has dug us in a deep hole. >> joe biden announced his third run for president just on thursday. you saw the first previous tries in '87, 2007 and we'll talk r about that now with matthew dowd, meghan mccain, co-host of

"the view" and of course you interviewed him on friday, former governor chris christie and amanda renteria, you support female democratic candidates. so, matt, let's assess the third rollout. interesting choice by joe biden to announce it in a video taking charlottesville straight on going straight at president trump. >> it says -- i was watching those clips from -- it seems like there is a biden comment that comes every 20 years, and now we're in the new realm of the biden comment. i thought first his campaign video and everything he said in that which was a fight for the soul of america i think is very good. >> i think it is a broad thematic for this. he obviously raised a ton of money in the first day or two following that. i think he's still rusty as you can see in some of his answers related to anita hill and still hasn't come up with a clear,

concise -- what many view as an apology in his role in that. i think this race, i've said it before, is going to be very nonlinear. there's not going to be lanes. everybody talks about who has this lane or that lane. it's like a golf tournament. you don't have to say the longer hitter will win, it's the one who can do it the best in all aspects of their game and they see biden starts off as a slight front-runner and we have to see which aspects are still strong. >> and how he performs. he did seem to make a bet on this divide. you're looking for a candidate that agrees with you most or most likely to beat trump. he seems to be making a bet on the latter. that's what people are looking for. >> my feeling on this when you look at it is, every single candidate makes the field better and no doubt he brings a wealth of experience. there is no doubt he brings foreign policy knowledge and at the end of it i agree, it won't be linear but when you see them come in with the talent and experience he has, it makes everyone better. that's what great about the democratic party's platform and all the time we have to get to learn the candidates. it was incredibly senator to come out reminding democrats who

they are in terms of being stronger together to stomp out hate particularly given the news we just heard in california. >> i think joe biden was your senator when you were at the university of delaware, right. >> he was and we both graduated from there and we did a lot of work for the university together so i've known him literally since i was in college. here's i think the big question, who is joe biden going to be? is he going to be john mccain and he's going to be the person who can learn from past campaigns and win, or is he not? who is he going to be? is he going to be the guy who just never learns? and i think that's really the question. can joe biden evolve at this point to not be a loser like he was the last two times he ran? let's face it, those campaigns were flameouts, both in '88 and 2008. you know, one candidate, you know, like john mccain ran in 2000 lost to george w. bush, stayed with it. learned things and became a better candidate in 2008 and got the nomination. is that who joe biden is going to be or is joe biden going to be the guy who just never

learns? >> you had the chance to interview him friday on "the view" and put questions to him on anita hill, on the allegations about inappropriate touching. how did you find him up close? what was your impression? >> i'm very biased as i think everyone knows. i will say that his biggest problem is going to be going up against the radical left in the primary. it's not people like me but i do think his campaign was smart enough to understand that the view's audience is predominantly women and the women's vote across all races and generations will be the make or break in this upcoming election. i found him warm, jovial, the kind of joe biden that can talk about grief and death in a way that translates to people's hearts and i think about anita hill and his, quote, inappropriate touching which is not something i had ever considered a really big issue is something i don't know if it's a huge issue in studios like this or actually a type of thing in pennsylvania and, you know, rural delaware and places in the middle of the country. i never really know if that's as much as it is for people like us. >> it doesn't seem to be so far at least on the touching but,

matt, i was surprised -- i think you're right. i think the vice president showed some empathy on "the view." that answer on anita hill did seem like he couldn't figure out a way to bring it home, to land it. >> you would think if there were three questions you'd prep joe biden for going into anything, anita hill would be one of them. that's what i didn't get about why wasn't there a clear answer and maybe the reason is there is not a clear answer. it was a different time and i was conducting these hearings in a totally different moment in america and i thought i did what i was supposed to do but i don't think he's grasped fully how where he was then and where america is today and i think that goes to the question that the governor said, which is, if he ran the same campaign and was the same candidate in 1988 and 2008, he would lose. can he meet america? >> i think it brings up the question, amanda. can he make a virtue out of saying you learned? i don't know how hard it is

to say, i wish i could have done better. i made mistakes. >> the politics of i'm sorry are difficult, are controversial. they always are. no doubt every single campaign goes through these moments of how do you say lessons learned and how do you say rhyme sorry? some is a new campaign and the candidate learning what can i say? how does it work and really connecting with people. and so this is true. he is going to have to develop a learning curve. we'll see it firsthand and we have a lot of time. >> is president trump sort of sending the signal to people he should never apologize? >> well, he certainly believes that. i don't think that really works for almost anybody else. remember, any analogies that we make between any other candidate and donald trump i think fail because he is just so completely different, and i believe it's because people don't hold him to the same standards they hold anybody else to. they don't have the same expectations for him. >> so he doesn't really change everything. >> he doesn't change everything. i have always believed that he is unique unto himself and to this period of time and i don't think he changes everything. and i say the other thing, that joe biden's hugest risk he is jeb bush. his biggest risk --

>> what does that mean? >> he's the guy there comes out as the front-runner early, enormous history and associations like joe biden with barack obama and others who lift him, but can he be someone who addresses today's needs? jeb i think never understood the political times we were in and he never changed and adjusted. will joe biden change and adjust to these times to be able to be someone who as matt said speaks to the concerns of democratic primary voters now and then ultimately general election voters who did elect donald trump three years ago. >> no disrespect to jeb bush, but i would make the argument that joe biden is endlessly more charismatic than jeb bush is and it is a completely different time. if biden can go out running on healing, uniting platform, i think running against trump in that time right now is something that could work especially with women. there's a bunch of women that just couldn't pull the trigger for hillary clinton. 54% of white women couldn't end up voting for hillary clinton and i think if he can gain back

women in this country which is a huge vulnerability for president trump and his administration, i do think it could be a winning path. if the democratic primary voters like it or not, i have no idea. >> that guy on your show friday didn't look like a guy ready to appeal to those voters. what i'm saying is he can't be the same guy he's been all these years. >> he didn't have to ask the audience to clap for him like jeb bush did. >> the donald trump's i'm sorry, if i was designing a strategy for success in 2020 is do everything opposite of what president trump is. because if the candidates are -- they're not going to go along and say i like my version of donald trump. you have to do everything tonally, strategically opposite of that, and i think one of the mistakes politicians made, george w. bush made this and i worked for him. barack obama made this at times is they think saying i'm sorry is a sign of weakness and saying i'm sorry and i made a mistake is a sign of strength and the american public as you know with bill clinton rewards you for that. >> that gets to an interesting question, amanda. i want to put this one to you. who is the most anti-trump in the democratic field?

david axelrod said the voters are looking for an antidote to the president. is it pete buttigieg because of generational or the way he talks about issues or joe biden because of the experiences or elizabeth warren because she's a woman? what do you think the answer there is? >> i think everyone has their strand of being anti-trump but the truth is that was what was interesting about the video is it put squarely in the middle he is taking this fight to trump and i think that's what makes it interesting. by the way there's been a lot of time for candidates to see trump and how he responds back. i mean when we were in 2016 it was new. this was new for jeb bush. it's no longer new anymore. candidates have been thinking through this, and i think you saw that in that video coming right at him and not letting him stop. >> one of the big questions for the democrats is how do they take on the economy. we saw those numbers come out on friday. 3.2% growth. >> listen, you know, it is very much like the old mike tyson saying, right, everybody has a plan until they get punched in

the face and donald trump is -- you know, is -- i could tell you from having done it myself, it is a very different phenomenon running against him. and i think that everybody could have as much time to study it that they want. in the end the democrats have to look for someone who is absolutely authentic. i think the biggest key to this race is authenticity. what the american people want to see opposite donald trump is somebody who is completely comfortable in their own skin and whatever approach they take, matt, whether it's more confrontational or whether it's less confrontational vis-a-vis trump, they have to look completely comfortable and what i saw on friday, and i like vice president biden, we've known each other as i said for 30 years but i didn't see somebody who was comfortable yet in this current environment. we got the democrats after somebody comfortable -- they'll have no chance against trump. >> you say no chance, but one of the other big questions the economy as you said at the top so strong right now, apparently so strong, you know, low unemployment, stock market record high, lots of growth yet the president is still below 40%. >> well, that's the thing about this.

the economy, the good indicators, the economy numbers show two things i think, first is all of these indicators don't necessarily reflect how an average american feels about their finances and their daily life today. so while the economic indicators are good, much part of the middle class doesn't feel like it's changed. the other part is democrats have to figure out how to talk about this in a time where those economic indicators are good and how a part of the country is not getting served but republicans have a real problem which is the last time an economy was this good, the president had a job approval rating 20 points higher than president trump, so the question is why is he underperforming a good economy so badly? he's at 42, 41. the abc poll shows him at 39%. if you go into an election like and ronald reagan was at those same numbers today, but what happened was the economy grew for the next year and a half and numbers ended up in the high 50s. he is in the low 40s with a good economy. >> the other thing that could helpim i if the democrats end up going radically far left focusing on the green new deal, on late term abortions. these are the type of things

that will make voters in the middle of the country and republicans like me who for the lls. when you see town halls where bernie c sanders can't ezynd d think that will be the struggle getting through the democratic party without becoming so radicalized on the left. >> our poll does show not a lot of appetite for impeachment right now. >> that's right. and i think there will be a question in the democratic party on what to do on impeach many. if we look at what happened in 2018, the focus on really talking about health care and talking about the issues worked. the economy was great then too. so i think what democrats have to do, they have to look at what happened in 2018, work from that, women were a big part. 60% of those seats were flipped by women and so we're going to see that. there's some study to be had on 2018. and i think that's where democrats need to focus. >> let's remember, presidential elections are different because they're a binary choice.

what meghan said, 54% of white women could not vote for hillary clitrp tig 30 pyo this at, that's trum d suggest that meghan is right. if it's trump versus bernie sanders or elizabeth warren someone taking the country way left, those numbers will change, george. well, i've said i think biden is the most difficult guy for him to run against. if biden can make his way through the primary and stay on the rails, joe biden has to stay on the rails. if he can, he's the toughest one. >> the problem with all this, if we talked about all the same things in 2015 about the same things, the campaign reveals the first debates are in june, the next debates after that are in july, we will know a lot more about performance of the candidates and how they speak to the american public than we do today. >> that's absolutely right. >> take a quick break. up next the president's likely nominee to the federal reserve taking heat for past writings on gender whether he is qualified for the job, stephen moore responds when we come back.

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our support is still there. still there. >> the president's top economic adviser larry kudlow defending the man president trump wants to nominate toephen moore who join. thanks for joining us this morning. >> hi, george. privilege to be on the show. >> he was referring to the series of comments about your past writings that have come out in recent weeks making disparaging comments about women, female athletes, coed sports, pay equity, a series of articles over several years. all a spoof? anything you regret? >> sure, i do. by the way, george, let me back up for a minute because probably this is the first time you've ever had a federal reserve board nominee on your show over all these years and the president asked me to do this. it's been about a little over a month, and just so people understand the history here, for the first week a lot of economists on the left and people in the media started attacking some of my economic ideas and that got them nowhere. i stand by, you know, what i've said and my credentials on the

economy. and "the washington post" ran a piece, you know, several weeks ago saying we can't beat steve moore on his economic ideas. i've known the senators for a long time. what happened, george, was this smear campaign, this character assassination, and it began two or three weeks ago, i mean, you're not going to believe this, george, but the media unsealed my divorce from ten years ago and started reporting details of my divorce which was against the wishes, by the way, of myself and my ex-wife, who i have a very good solid relationship with today. and that -- i think most fair-minded people say what does a divorce settlement have to do with interest rates and my economic credentials. and then what's happened is there are five or six full-time reporters investigating every area of my life. this -- these articles that you're talking about were 17, 18 years ago. frankly, i didn't even remember writing some of these they were

so long ago. now you asked me the question of whether i'm apologetic about some of those columns. they were humor columns but some of them weren't funny, and so i'm apologetic and embarrassed by some of those things i wrote, but i do think we should get back to the issue of whether i'm qualified to be on the federal reserve board, whether i have the economic expertise, and i think there's an area where i'll stand by my record and i'll debate anybody on economics and let's make this about the economy. >> well, but part of what some of the things your writings show are to some observers saying it shows you're not qualified because of your views on gender including things like pay equity. i want to point out something you wrote in a 2014 column, you actually ask what are the implications of deciding which women earn more than men. we don't really know but it could be disruptive to family stability. a lot of people look at it and say what do you mean by that? >> well, look, first of all, when you look at what's happened under donald trump and what's happening with wages now and

increases in income, i think prosperity and economic growth are a women's issue and benefit, you know, blacks, they benefit minorities, this is a -- as you just said, this is a sizzling economy right now. i'm very proud to have played a role in this. i was the senior economic adviser with larry kudlow to that campaign. it's a really, really strong economy. women have benefited, you know -- >> but let me just interrupt you right there. >> we have the lowest unemployment rate for women. >> in that article you're taking on legislation designed to close the wage gap. >> we are closing the wage gap. i mean the way to close the wage gap is by creating a healthy economy. right now we have 7.1 million, 7.1 million more jobs than people that are filling them right now. that's allowing women, minorities, others to increase their wages. i mean, look, i'm happy and proud of the fact that i played a small role in creating an

economy today that's probably as good as it's been in 20 years in terms of the labor force issues right now, george. this is the best labor market for workers in my lifetime. i'm not going to apologize for that. i think it's a fantastic thing. when it comes to wages and, you know, gender equity, i want that to be decided by the market. i don't want government to intervene in those. >> your fate is in the hands of the senate including female senators. senator susan collins of maine has taken on your call back in late last year when you said the chair of the federal reserve should be fired for considering raising interest rates, also concerned about your views on the gold standard. it's going to be tough for you to get nominated and confirmed if you don't have the support of susan collins, isn't it? >> well, first of all, let's go back to december. because i think this is onegest. you know, i was the one. i was one of the first economists among thousands when the fed raised interest rates

back in december, i got very angry about it and then i said this was economic malpractice. it was a terrible decision by the fed. the stock market fell by 2500 points in the subsequent weeks of that and then, of course, the fed had to reverse course, put its tail between its legs and admit that people like donald trump and i were right and they were wrong and incidentally, george, ever since then the economy has been on the surge. so i think, you know, there's an example of where i was quite right and most of the economists over at the fed were wrong. i don't think we would have had this 3.2% growth rate if it had not been for the fed reversing course. so, look, i'm friends with susan collins. i worked with her on the tax bill. i know most of the republican senators. i think they respect my economic expertise and my record. but i have said, look, if i become a liability to an i don't think it's going to come t. fr- people

think this has been kind of a sleaze campaign against me. incidentally, i have 110 prominent economists who have signed a letter endorsing me including dozens and dozens of women, so i just think that the perception is very different from the reality in terms of my attitude towards women. >> you might have some trouble in the midwest though because of the comments you made back in 2014, want to show everybody that. >> if you live in the midwest where else do you want to live besides chicago? you don't want to live in cincinnati or cleveland or these, you know, armpits of america like that. you want to live in chicago, right? >> armpits of america. senator sherrod brown says you have to apologize and retract that statement. >> well, you know, i am a homer. i'm a chicago boy, george, so i've always -- cincinnati and cleveland have been our rivals, but, you know, the irony of that statement which was made five years ago is today the ohio economy is booming. i just wrote a column saying, look, cincinnati and cleveland aren't the armpits of america. they've become the economic arsenal and ohio is booming and

unfortunately my home state of chicago and my home state of illinois is in the pits, so, you know, illinois, which by the way is being run by a terrible new governor who wants to raise taxes, ohio is doing all the right thing, no, i do not believe ohio is the armpit anymore. i think it's one of our most prosperous -- it's becoming one of our most prosperous states and i think trump will win that state by a big margin. >> the president is looking at other potential nominees. are you confident he'll follow through with your nomination? >> well, you know, i talked to the white house a couple of days ago. one thing i love about this incident, and incidentally i'm proud of playing a small part in what he has done to rebuild the american economy. i mean, you know, you were talking about the economy earlier. you know, 71% of americans now view the economy as good or great. that's twice as high the percentage as it was, george, when barack obama was president. so americans do feel the economy is headed in a good direction. i think that i'm going to make

it through this process and, you know, we have one other person he has to put on that board, and my whole thing is we can grow this economy at 4%. we can have no inflation on high employment and that's good for every segment of our population. >> stephen moore, thanks for your time this morning. >> thank you, george. more roundtable coming up. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. today, life-changing technology from abbott is helping hunt them down at their source.

because the faster we can identify new viruses, the faster we can get to stopping them. the most personal technology, is technology with the power to change your life. life. to the fullest. you know, our community is doing as well as can be expected and i just want to say first, our jewish brothers and sisters from chabad of poway have to feel the love that all of us are sending their way now. we are a close community and we're going to be there for them every step of the way. >> we forcefully condemn the evil of anti-semitism and hate which must be defeated. it just happened. must be defeated. >> reaction coming in to another synagogue shooting in california yesterday. matthew dowd, i was talking about it with jim clyburn at the

top of the show. a real pattern here. we're seeing it again and again and again, spread over the internet. even earlier in the week in sunnyvale, california, a man drives a car into a crowd he thinks is going to be filled with muslims. this seems to be contagious. >> well, there's all kinds of data that shows over the last few years there's a huge rise of radical white extremism in america, and it's actually a much bigger problem within america than radical islam but we spent vast amounts more in resources and dollars and manpower and police work related to radical islam than we do to what's going on in america. so first we have to address that problem, and this is reflective of that. second, we have to have a real conversation. this was another example where guns are involved in america and all of these shootings where there's access to guns and what we can do -- as a gun owner, i own five guns myself. most gun owners believe we have to do something about guns. and, three, i think the president needs to at some point

look in the mirror and understand the rhetoric he uses plays a big part and give permission to the most craziest people in america, not that the president is responsible but his rhetoric adds to that and needs to reflect on that. now that we're having these shootings not only in public places and in concerts and in places where parties are, we're having them in synagogues and mosques and christian churches. >> he did seem to get it last night. what more can the president be doing? >> listen, i think the president has been very strong on the issue of anti-semitism and been very clear in his words on that and i think it would be unfair to characterize the president any other way than being strongly against these kind of movements, and i would say to matthew, we can approach this from a law enforcement perspective and i think why should. i don't think we should do anything less in radical islam. that threat comes from outside our shores, not just inside our shores and have to look at both sides. but i wouldn't be opposed to spending a lot more in law enforcement and going after a lot of hate groups inside our

own shores and do it the right way. as far as the president is concerned at the end of the day he's been clear on this issue as he was last night and i don't think that he deserves any of the blame for what's going on here in that regard. >> amanda. >> i think leadership is leadership and the reality when you look at what this president has been pushing and that he doesn't stomp it out right when it happens, i'm not surprised to see these acts continuing throughout. and there is more we can do, not just law enforcement in the area but online as well and what kind of conversations we're having online is an important piece. >> thank goodness facebook was able to shut down -- he was able to livestream it but that is a real issue. >> yeah, and one that i think the silicon valley should have their feet held to the fire. i do think when we're having conversations about anti-semitism we should look at the most extreme on both sides and i would bring up congresswoman ilhan omar and some of her comments that got so much attention and nancy pelosi wasn't hard enough in her

response to her language talking about the benjamins and how jewish people had hypnotized the world. so i think when you're talking about rhetoric and when you talk about president trump and by the way i agree he needs to have his feet held to the fire as well but talking about it on both sides of the aisle as well. >> what i think, yes, it occurred at a synagogue and, yes, this person individually was anti-semitic but he also was a person that hated immigrants and what happened at the tree of life synagogue, the guy was driven by what the tree of life synagogue was doing to help immigrants and when you relate those two things which is anti-immigrant in california and what's going on in the country and what happened at the tree of life and couple it with the president's language it's a big problem. >> continuing conversation. that is all for us today. thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. check out "world news tonight." tune in tuesday for robin roberts' exclusive interview with joe biden and dr. jill biden. i'll see you tomorrow.

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