>> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos starts right now. show of force. north korea fires a barrage of projectiles into the sea of japan. it's north korea's most significant military test in more than a year. what's behind kim jong-un's provocative move. and as the power struggle in venezuela intensifies, did the american support of opposition leader juan guaido backfire? we asked the president's top diplomat, secretary of state mike pompeo. and on the trail in iowa. >> how are you doing? i'm senator bernie sanders. >> bernie sanders is picking a fight with a new front-runner.

>> joe biden says that he's the most progressive candidate in this race -- >> as he mounts his second presidential campaign. what do you say to those who say it's time for a new generation of leadership? and the one issue where bernie sanders actually agrees with president trump. >> this is one area actually i do not fault trump. >> joe biden has entered the race as the early front-runner, sanders a close second. with more than 20 candidates, can a self-described democratic socialist find a path to the nomination? those questions and more in our exclusive interview with bernie sanders. plus, the latest insight and analysis from our powerhouse roundtable. >> announcer: from abc news, it's "this week." here now, chief white house correspondent jonathan karl. good morning. welcome to "this week." it's been a big week on the campaign trail as joe biden is in and already ahead of the pack. reshaping the 2020 campaign. but bernie sanders is not far behind and portraying himself as the true progressive in the

race. sanders isn't shy about taking aim at joe biden's record. we caught up with sanders in iowa where he received a rock-star welcome at the des moines farmers market. >> make us proud. >> thank you, i will. thank you. >> bernie. thank you. >> feel the bern, bernie. >> we'll have that exclusive interview shortly. but, we begin with what's been a challenging week in american foreign policy. over the weekend, new provocations from north korea as kim jong-un personally oversaw the country's most significant military test in over a year. launching a barrage of projectiles into the sea of japan. and while the u.s. has yet to confirm the type of projectile tested, the move raises questions about kim jong-un's willingness to negotiate a nuclear deal with president trump. and here in this hemisphere, a failed uprising in venezuela. the trump administration recognized venezuela's interim

president, opposition leader juan guaido over three months ago and encouraged his challenge to president nicolas maduro. this week, urging members of maduro's inner circle to defect. but after guaido's call for a military uprising, maduro is still in power. let's get right to it all with secretary of state mike pompeo. let's start with north korea, what have we learned about what exactly, the kind of projectiles north koreans were testing? >> so, we know a couple of things. one, at no point, was there was no international border crossed. didn't pose a threat to south korea, japan or the u.s. they were relatively short-range. beyond that, they weren't intercontinental ballistic missiles. >> so, you're one of the precious few americans who has actually spent time with kim jong-un, what's your read on this? what kind of message was he

sending with these tests? >> well, jonathan, we still believe that there's an opportunity to get a negotiated outcome where we get fully verified denuclearization. chairman kim has repeatd that. he has repeatd that quite recently, in fact. so, we hope that this act that he took over the weekend won't get in the way. we want to get back to the table and we want to continue to have these conversations. the global sanctions put in place by the u.n. security council they're still in place, so the pressure on chairman kim to continue down this path, to achieve the outcome that -- you have to remember, this attack took -- excuse me, these launches took place just after he met with vladimir putin. clearly, chairman kim hasn't been able to get precisely what he wanted. we hope we can get back to the table. we're further along than we were a year ago and we hope we can continue to make progress. >> kim's clearly frustrated by the fact that he's not gotten anything back yet from the u.s. yet.

the sanctions are still in place. he's now set this deadline of the end of the year basically for the u.s. to show flexibility. do you take that deadline seriously? >> look, this is a serious situation for sure. we know the path to fully verified nuclear denuclearization would be a long and bumpy one. as for the deadline, we want to get back and begin to have these negotiations. we're watching closely the north korean behavior as is our allies, japan, south korea in the region. we still believe there's a path forward. >> it was reported after the hanoi summit that the president had reached out to kim, there had been communications to the north koreans, have we heard anything back? is the president -- has the president heard back anything from chairman kim? >> i don't want to get into the exact nature of communications that took place. yes, we have communicated with north koreans post-hanoi. we can have conversations about

the path moving forward. >> so you have heard back? >>, yes. >> so the president had this response on twitter to the tests, it was a little different in tone than in years. "i believe kim jong-un fully realizes the great economic potential of north korea. he also knows that i'm with him and does not want to break his promise to me. deal will happen." why is the president so optimistic about getting a deal with kim jong-un? >> jonathan, that doesn't sound any different from what i have said this morning. i too believe that there's a path forward that we can achieve this path forward. 50% of the north korean population at risk of significant malnutrition, that's a very difficult set of conditions there. we want a brighter future. it's important. they need to understand that if these nuclear weapons go away it will be of an enormous benefit

keeping them continues to pose risk. >> you mentioned the famine. is the u.s. considering any steps to maybe lift sanctions to get humanitarian support in, anything to deal with that famine, which is supposed to be the worst if a long, long time. >> it's permissible for humanitarian aid. what happened on friday night, the money could have gone to taking care of his own people. it's so unfortunate. >> there are reports out of the region that after the hanoi summit, several of the people that you were negotiating with, that were part of that negotiating team at hanoi were executed, do we believe those reports are accurate? >> jonathan, i don't have anything to add to that this morning. >> but some kind of shakeup of his team over there? >> it does appear that the next time we have negotiations, we hamy counterpa

will be someone else. chairman kim will get to make his own decisions who he asks to have these discussion. >> i want to show you something that cindy warmbier said, she made an emotional appeal to keep up the pressure. take a listen. >> north korea to me is a cancer on the earth. there's a charade going on right now, it's diplomacy. how can you have diplomacy with someone who never tells the truth? >> from anything you have heard observed here, do you really think that kim jong-un is negotiating with good faith. >> first of all, i have come to known the warmbier, cindy is an american warrior. so the tone in her voice, the sound of her voice, i have enormous sympathy for. make no mistake, the united

states continues to apply pressure. the u.n. sanctions continue to be enforced. we're expending a lot of energy to do that. it's important that we play out every diplomatic opportunity. every opportunity we have to have these nuclear weapons depart and verify that without the use of force we think every effort ought to be made in that. >> but going back to president's tweet responding to these tests. the line that stuck out to me, he said, i'm with him. i'm with him. that's what she's saying about kim jong-un, you just heard what cindy warmbier had to say about kim jong-un, one of the brutal dictators. >> this is a president who put on the toughest sanctions in the history of the world on north korea. the president understands the challenges. the president deeply understands this. we're working towards finding a path forward with chairman kim. to denuclearize his country diplomatically. you recall at the beginning of the administration the president

spoke about fire and fury, we understand all the challenges. we know who the north koreans are. we're working to see if there's a possibility before we go another direction, want to see if there's any possibility we can achieve this outcome. >> let's turn to venezuela, national security adviser john bolton suggested earlier this week, that maduro was about to fall. openly called for maduro's inner circle to defect. but opposition leader guaido acknowledged yesterday that he miscalculated the level of support that he thought he had within the venezuelan military. was this an intelligence failure for the united states? >> no, not at all. attempting to re-establish their democracy. as you know, these things have bumpy roads to be sure. but maduro can't feel good. he's ruling for the moment but he can't govern. there's enormous poverty, enormous starvation. there are sick children that can't get medicine, jonathan.

this is not someone who can be part of venezuela's future. our mission is to work with large coalition, now 50-countries plus working to restore democracy. ultimately, a productive economy. >> you said today, tomorrow, a week from now, you're saying this is imminent? >> it could be two weeks, four weeks. >> not two months, not a year? >> what we can do is provide support, the entire region, that understands that we're starting democracy for venezuelan people is an imperative. >> would maduro still be in power if he didn't have support from cubans and the russians? >> cubans are at the center of this. cubans are performing the security for maduro today. they're everywhere around him. he doesn't trust his military. you said the military -- the

leader of their intelligence service left. so, there's a lot -- maduro can't feel good about the security of his position today. and he shouldn't, because the venezuelan people will demand ultimately he leave. the russians need to get out, too. the president tweeted, the russians must go. we want every country. iran is in there today, they need to leave as well. >> i want to play what the president said about vladimir putin and what putin told him about venezuela. >> he is not looking at all to get involved in venezuela other than he'd like to see something positive happen for venezuela and i feel the same way. >> but, wait a minute, what does he mean the russians -- that putin does not want to get involved in venezuela, aren't they already deeply involved in supporting maduro?

>> look, the president has said that the russians must get out. i'm going to meet with foreign minister lavrov in recent days. we'll have more conversations about this. it's very clear, we want the russians out, we want the iranians out, we want the cubans out. it's very clear. i don't think anything the president said is inconsistent with that. >> wait a minute, you said that maduro was on the plane ready to leave and to flee for cuba and it was the russians that told him to stay, and the president is saying putin told him that he's not looking to get involved in venezuela, obvious that putin is deeply involved in venezuela? what does he mean he's not looking to get involved? >> i didn't see the full context of the quote that. i do know this, the president has made clear we want everyone out, and that includes the russians. >> so you were at the pentagon going over military options on friday with the president's

national security team. i know the line you said, the president said, all options are on the table. but is a u.s. military invasion of venezuela really an option? >> oh, make no mistake. we have a full range of options that we're preparing for. that's part of what we were doing on friday. we're making sure when this progresses, and different situations rises, the president has a full scale of options with our allies. and then ultimately a set of options that would involve the use of u.s. military. when the situation arises we're not flat-footed. >> does the president believe he can intervene militarily without getening congressional authorization? >> i don't want to speak to that. the president has a full range of article 2 authorities. >> i want to get to another thing that the president mentioned with his hour-long with vladimir putin. he said that he believes that russia will not interfere in the

2020 elections. we heard, you know, a different message from bill barr in his senate testimony. we've heard concerns from the intelligence community on this. why does the president remain confident that russia will not try to do it again? >> i've been part of this administration for two years now. we have worked diligently to protect america's election systems. something i wish the previous administration had done more effectively. we had pretty good success in 2018 and we continue to be very focused on that. not only russia interference, we don't want the north koreans interfering in our elections, we want to protect and preserve our elections. we're determined -- the president has done more on election interference than any previous president. we're very proud of what we accomplished there. >> the president seems to be

suggesting that he's ready for a new phase in his relationship with vladimir putin. is there going to be a trump/putin summit on the horizon? are we entering a new phase? >> i hope we are. i'm going to meet with the foreign minister lavrov, i'll be traveling the week after that, to continue the conversations. we truly we do hope. when i was the cia director we were able to do that. we worked with russians on counterterrorism. we were able to keep americans traveling in the world a little bit safer and help russian citizens who are traveling the world to be safer. any place we can find overlapping interests we work along the russians. >> third summit? >> i don't know. we'll see. >> one more question before you go, i want to ask you about climate change, you said recently that climate change is not in the top five national security challenges facing the united states. we have heard the national -- director of national intelligence talk about climate

change, fueling competition for resources, we heard the pentagon warn about climate change, where do you put it? if it's not the top five, where do you put it? >> i can't rank it. i mean, i can't tell you exactly which number. we want to make sure that all the outcomes that are possible, and that includes climactic change, that our national security as secretary of state never wavers. that's what we'll do. >> the washington post reported that the state department tried to strip any reference to climate change for the arctic policy ahead of the summit you're going be attending this week, what are you doing specifically to address this threat or do you not take it seriously? >> jonathan, this administration takes keeping americans safe, keeping our air clean, very, very seriously.

the debate is about in this document you're referring to is about the paris climate agreement. we don't think that has any hope of being successful. we've seen it. we have seen americans reduce its carbon footprint. to sign a piece of paper is interesting and fun. you get to cut a piece of ribbon and have a big photo-op but at the end of the day the world is no safer. this administration is focused on doing the things that will allow our economy to grow. health has improved for citizens around the world. as economies grow. we're determined to do that. we hope other countries will follow our lead. these are the things that will keep americans safe. it's what president trump is focused on. >> secretary pompeo, thank you for joining us on "this week." appreciate it. up next, our exclusive interview with bernie sanders, he's back on the campaign trail in iowa, picking right up where he left off four years ago.

we're one-on-one on the trail in des moines. >> wonderful. you're awesome. >> thank you very much. >> my grandkids love you. >> what about their mother and grandmother? everybody talks to me about their kids, kids can't vote. >> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos sponsored by bp. one of the windiest places in america. and home to three bp wind farms. in the off-chance the wind ever stops blowing here... the lights can keep on shining. thanks to our natural gas. a smart partner to renewable energy. it's always ready when needed. or... not. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing. you don't even want to know protection. detergent alone doesn't kill bacteria, but adding lysol laundry sanitizer kills 99.9%

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>> i love you. >> thank you. >> same name recognition not a problem anymore. >> i don't think so. thank you very much. >> big crowds for bernie sanders in iowa this weekend when sanders jumped into the last presidential campaign four years ago, he was the longest of long shots. by the end of that campaign, he was the leader of the national progressive movement that nearly toppled hillary clinton. now, bernie sanders is picking up right where he left off. he's on a first-name basis with iowan democrats. this weekend, he looked like a front-runner. we caught up with him just outside the big farmers market in des moines. i started off by asking him about the issues he believes will animate this race. >> i think there's a profound anger at corporate greed, pharmaceutical companies make billions in profits and 1 out of 5 americans can't afford the medicine they need. insurance companies pay their

ceos outrageous levels of compensation. you got 34 million people who have no health insurance. many people can't afford their deductibles and their co-payments when they go to the doctors. wall street makes profits and they're charging people 17% interest rates on their credit cards. i think people see the rich getting much, much richer. >> i'm sure you saw joe biden say that he's the most progressive candidate in this race. >> well, look, joe is a good friend of mine and i'm not here to attack joe. joe voted for the war in iraq. i led the effort against it. joe voted for nafta and trade agreements with china. i led the effort against that. joe voted for the deregulation of wall street, i voted against that. you know, i think,

if you look at joe's record and you look at my record, i don't think there's much question about who's more progressive. >> you famously said about hillary clinton during the last campaign, i disagree with hillary clinton on virtually everything, would you say the same thing about joe biden -- >> see, this is early in the campaign. >> you've known joe for a long time? >> i disagree with the votes he casted. i have stood up for the right of people to have health care because they're an american citizen. i don't think that's joe's position. what i do want to say, jonathan, i hope on the democratic side that what the campaign is about is a discussion of issues, not personal attacks. i think i can feel safe to say that no matter who the candidate is we'll come together to defeat the most dangerous president in modern american history, donald trump.

>> your medicare for all. biden says that he'd like to see a more incremental approach, fix obamacare. allow a medical option. but allow people to have private health insurance if they want. why not do an approach like that? >> i'll tell you why, the system today is dysfunctional. we're spending twice per capita. the medicare right now is the most popular health insurance program in the country. but it only applieto people 65 years of age and older. all that i want to do is expand medicare over a four-year period -- to cover every man, woman and child in the country -- >> but to do that you'd eliminate private health insurance. >> for basic needs, yes. >> what do you say to the firefighter in iowa who has a health plan that they like? >> what i would say is, if you want a better program, a more comprehensive program with no

deductibles, with no co-payments, with no premiums, will cost your family less support for medicare for all. >> will people be able to see the doctor? can you make that guarantee -- >> absolutely. look, the truth is right now, you may have an insurance plan that the doctor that you really like is not on that network. >> well, what if everyone wants to see dr. sanders here in des moines -- >> that's the same problem you have today. look, if you have a popular doctor right now under your current policy it may take you a while to get in there. but, under medicare for all, freedom of choice, with regard to doctors, to hospitals, we cannot sustain a system in which the cost of health care continues to soar. >> so, we have more economic numbers came out this week. the jobless rate hits a 50-year low, unemployment is down, and for the first time in a while,

we're actually seeing wage growth. donald trump, one area he has a solid approval rating is on his handling of the economy, 56%. does president trump deserve some credit for the fact that the economy by multiple measures seems to be doing quite well? >> the economy is doing well. i'm sure i don't have to give trump credit. he'll take the credit. but what we're looking at is a ten-year rebound from the wall street crash of 2008. i do not believe that trump's massive tax breaks for billionaires is the cause of the good economy. but when you talk about good economy, and follow me around here in des moines, talk to the workers who are making $9 an hour or $10 an hour, the truth is, that half of the people in this country today, despite the good economy, are living paycheck to paycheck, and millions of people are working two, three jobs just to put food on the table. >> so, under your economic plan, who pays more taxes?

obviously the billionaires and the millionaires. >> it's a set of different policies. but basically, when you have the top 1% in america owning more wealth than the bottom 92%, when the very, very rich are becoming phenomenally richer and doing incredibly well, when you have companies like amazon, you know how much amazon paid in the country, taxes, owned by the wealthiest person, they paid 0 in taxes. >> where do you draw the line? a family making $100,000 a year pay more, $50,000? >> for example, we're going to expand benefits on social security and we're going to do that by raising taxes, lifting the cap on people making $250,000 or more. we certainly are going to raise corporate taxes and do away with these tax havens where the wealthy and large corporations are stashing their money in the cayman islands.

so, look, at a time of massive of income inequality, the average american worker today is making a few cents an hour more than she or he did a 43 years ago. we'll ask the people on top -- >> but where -- >> well, look, it depends on where you're looking. we have a personal income tax. but at the end of the day, we cannot continue this grotesque level of income inequality that currently exists. >> last time around, you said you're the only one in the race to take on the billionaire class, is that true today? >> i think elizabeth warren is a very good senator. my views are different on elizabeth on this and that issue. she's certainly a progressive candidate. >> why are you a better choice for progressives than elizabeth warren? >> i'll let the voters decide that. we'll deal with that. but right now. elizabeth is a friend of mine. she's a serious candidate, she's a good candidate. we have our differences.

let the voters sort it out. >> biden has called himself a obama/biden democrat. would you embrace that phrase? >> well, look, barack obama was a very, very good president. >> what grade would you give him? >> i'm not going to give him a grade. compared to the guy in the white house now, i'd give him an a-plus. >> republicans want to run against socialism. time for you to disavow that label? >> the problem is, in our television interview it's hard for me to describe in depth what we mean by that, when social security was created, what did the republicans called it? >> called it socialism. >> any time you do things for the people and you stand up to the wealthy and powerful, you'll be labeled this and that and the other thing. >> label you -- >> but all of the issues that we

are talking about, they're supported by the american people. >> i heard from several of your opponents talk about the need for a new generation of leadership. so what do you say to those who say, you've been in washington for 29 years, you've fought for these issues, your time has passed, it's time for a none generation? >> let the voters decide that, okay, i will not criticize my opponents for not having a whole lot of experience. that would be wrong. let the voters decide. i'm proud of the fact that in the last campaign you covered, we helped transform the debate in america. you know, when i talked about a $15 an hour minimum wage, four years ago that was radical, extreme, today, six states have already passed it. so, ideas that we brought forth have helped transform the discussion in america. we started that debate. i want to end that discussion and take those ideas into the white house.

>> i want to ask you about the news overnight, north korea has now launched what appears to be a series of missile tests. how would president sanders handle that situation? >> this is one area where i do not fault with trump. i think the idea of sitting down with kim jong-un is the right thing to do. it is very, very difficult but clearly they're a threat to the planet. they're isolated, they're demagogic, and we have to do everything we can to have china and the people in the pacific rim put as much pressure on north korea and make it clear they can't continue to act this way. >> okay, lightning round. in your lifetime, the presidents you observed, who was the best president? >> i think lyndon johnson doesn't get the credit that he deserves for his domestic agenda. vietnam was terrible, terrible, terrible. on domestic issues lbj deserves a lot more credit. >> cory booker says he'll name a woman as his running mate. >> i'll consider that.

>> person of color? zwl i think it's premature. >> you can't give us your short list right now? do you favor adding seats to the supreme court? >> no. >> do you favor doing away with the electoral college? >> i think when you have a guy in the white house right now who received 3 million votes less than his opponent something is fundamentally wrong. >> last question, who's going to win the iowa caucuses? >> well, i'm not going to speculate. we did pretty well last time. we basically tied with hillary clinton. all i can say is, we're going to work hard. i hope we do. >> bernie sanders, appreciate your time. >> okay, thank you. >> our thanks to senator sanders. up next, the powerhouse roundtable. the powerhouse roundtable.

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do you often wake up with chest congestion or suffer excess mucus? try mucinex 12 hour. the bi-layer tablet immediately releases to thin and loosen excess mucus and lasts for 12 hours. mucinex 12 hour the president has been tweeting a lot about joe biden. is that because he's the latest in the race? or he hopes he's the nominee? >> i think he's the latest flavor of the day and i think, you know, next week it will be somebody else for the democrats. the mayor of some town was on "time" magazine yesterday so he'll be the flavor of week --

>> mayor pete buttigieg. all right, let's bring in powerhouse roundtable. former new jersey governor and abc news contributor chris christie, democratic strategist stefanie james brown. jonathan swan, national political reporter for axios, and our own mary bruce. so, the mayor of some town. but let me ask you, you heard senator sanders on this question of the new generation of leadership, this line that so many of his opponents are saying, he sounds like he's not going to exploit the youth of his opponents. >> i don't think that's going to matter. i don't think the youth kind of biden/sanders/warren wing of the party, i don't think that's where the divide is going to be. i think this divide is going to be all the energy is on the far left of the party, can someone like biden who's off to seemingly a good start, can he survive? when all the energy is on the left side.

i think this is very much a left/center argument inside their party. who's going to come out of it and how are they going to manage that. >> stefanie, this seems like we're seeing a real war for the ideological soul of the democratic party in this primary. biden and sanders represent two very different visions for the party and for america? >> absolutely. but right now, we're seeing biden is being very successful in his race right now. i mean, people like joe biden. he is polling 20 points higher than any of his other competitors. people think that he's the man to beat donald trump. right now, they want a candidate who will not only be strong on policy but beat trump. i think it's actually being overblown how much people are talking about the ideological differences.

people want someone who ease charismatic, someone who can beat trump and someone they can trust. >> what is the answer to the question that judge jeanine was asking mick there, why is the president so enthralled with tweeting about joe biden? is that who he worries about? >> trump, a couple of people have told him, at least one i know of, person who have told him stop elevating biden. it's only helping him. trump likes to define people early on. that's his whole game. i need to brand him. it's all through the lens of branding. that's what he's doing right now. trump just looks the polls. it's not that complicated. he looks at the polls, biden's at the top. i'll spend a lot of time beating this guy up. from any conversation with people around trump i don't think he's expressing, wringing his hands about what do i do about biden? that's not how he is. people around him who see biden as the biggest threat for very simple reasons -- the rust belt is where they need to win this election.

and biden can take a lot of these voters. >> and it's interesting how much biden himself is talking about trump. when you compare what biden has said in the last several events, versus your conversation with bernie sanders, sanders is talking about biden, biden is talking about trump. i disagree with the governor. the generational issues are real, he has a problem with the under-30. i like joe biden, he reminds me of my grandpa. if i asked them, do they feel grandpa joe can represent them? i got shoulder shrugs and awkward pauses. i asked a lot of voters, if it comes down to bernie and biden, how do you make that decision? every single voter when it comes down to it they want someone, anyone to beat donald trump. >> biden says he's going to be very tough on margaret thatcher. >> by the way, that's why biden

i think is doing this smartly. biden doesn't want to argue with any of those people. he doesn't want to argue with bernie or buttigieg. biden's like, you want to beat trump? i'm the guy. that has to be the argument. that recent poll helps him. listen, i'm the guy who can do this and do this better than anybody else. that will override all this in the end. >> democrats want to win. >> they do want to win. >> what's interesting about that same poll also showed that democrats overwhelmingly, yes, democrats are focused on beating trump, but they also really want to pivot on issues they're concerned about, they want someone to talk about health care and public education. the candidate that's both able to focus on how i'm going to beat trump but also i create some policy solutions is going to be the winning candidate. >> it depends on how they talk about it. if they start talking about it and feel drawn further, further left, it plays right into the president's hands.

he'll brand biden ultimately a socialist and that's a label much worse than sleepy joe. the socialism label is one that can be cut -- >> isn't there a fundamental problem or challenge the democrats face? you talked an anger at corporate america, the economy, when we're looking at the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years. it's not just the big macro numbers, we're seeing real wage growth for the first time in a long time, how do you do as democrats make the argument on the economy when the economy is doing so well? >> it's hard to make that argument for democrats on economy. health care can be a real issue that democrats can control the narrative. because it's hard for them to beat back the reality that the economy is doing well and trump of course is taking all the credit for it. they need to pivot on the issues they're strong on. >> listen, if we are, a year

from now, in the exact same spot economically, i don't think the democrats have hope. i think in the end, that's what the way people vote in these elections. especially the wage growth is a really important part of this. because middle-class voters start seeing their wages going up they'll give the credit to the president, whoever's in the seat gets the credit. the president deserves the credit for what he's done. and i think it will be very hard for any democrats to break through. >> go from the guy who can't win to the guy who can't lose? >> i don't disagree with the governor on that. look, that's why trump doesn't see his greatest threat is joe biden. he sees his greatest threat is the jerome powell, federal reserve is the threat to his re-election. >> i think democrats know they need to be focused more on health care and energy and climate issues, on education, rather than just the economy. but, despite the strong economic

numbers, the president's approval rating is still below 40%. it's not clear how much credit he's getting and continue to get from this economic -- >> his approval rating on handling the economy is at 56%. what, i mean, i don't think we have seen that kind of divide. >> all those issues will be a distraction compared to the economic numbers. i think people will wonder this week, why did the president have that meeting with chuck and nancy as he calls them and agree to $2 trillion in concept -- >> why did he do that? >> because he's concerned that the economy won't last until november, and if he puts $2 trillion worth of stimulus into this economy, putting union trade workers to work, and building up the economies in the states, the economy will stay at this level or even better. this is an economic move by the president. this is to hedge against the

concern of what the fed will do. >> the politics on that, i know this is not really the republican party anymore, it's the trump party. he is the, you know, he's the leader of this party, but the idea of conservatives supporting a $2 trillion spending bill, especially in face of deficits we're seeing, is that -- does it make people nervous? >> no. you know what makes me more nervous, bernie sanders' presidency. listen -- >> even bernie sanders will have a hard time competing with $2 trillion on infrastructure spending. >> exactly the president's theory here. i'm going to get out in front of this issue. it's going to pump up my economy. what are they going to say about me putting building tradespeople to work to improve our infrastructures, our airports, the tunnels, this is going to

be -- if the president pulls this off, not only for him great economically but a great political debate. >> can the democrats simultaneously talk about impeaching him and work with him on what would be maybe the biggest domestic policy that we have ever seen? >> and that's if this actually happens. i think that democrats talking about impeachment right now isn't helpful for the democrats' agenda. people want to talk about issues that are impacting them on a day-to-day level. which is why democrats should definitely pivot to talk about other issues other than the economy. other than the impeachment and quite frankly, other than the mueller report. a lot still has to be uncovered there. we need to focus on how we're going to protect our elections moving forward. i mean, we still haven't had any concrete solutions as to how we're going to make sure that no foreign governments are impeding the next election and so that's a real issue for americans. >> and that sounds like nancy pelosi, that's basically her message to the party. then, why are we seeing so many

of 2020 candidates getting way out there, saying that trump needs to impeached, barr needs to be held in contempt? they're going through there. >> because they're spending time with primary voters -- >> who want trump impeached. >> where is the energy of the party, it's the primary electorate. when you're spending your time with activists you're going to hear impeachment come up a little bit. >> so, where is pelosi? she was really direct saying barr lied, suggesting that he committed a crime in his testimony before congress. >> what strikes me about her comments in week, you're seeing nancy pelosi emphathizing a lot more with members of her caucus frustrated and furious and a lot of the democratic candidates. she's not inching any closer to supporting impeachment. she's going further in her criticism. she really ripped into the

president and into the attorney general this week. but she also has made clear the bar for impeachment hasn't changed. you still need bipartisan spot, buy-in from the public. she wants to focus on the agenda and wants to talk about health care and talk about issues she knows voters care about. it's a really tough challenge for her. >> also, they also can't be tone deaf to not talk about the fact that, yeah, we do think barr lied in his testimony. it's a balancing act. how much do you talk about what's happening right in front of you with barr -- >> let's be honest, it's farcical. how many deadlines has jerry nadler given. high noon deadlines. may 2nd. you must comply. actually, no, we'll back off. bill barr you must testify. monday morning, another deadline, pound sand will bill

barr's response to that. keep doing that. the dirty secret is, they can hold him in contempt. it's been done before. it matters nothing. it goes through the courts. it will get dragged out. bill barr knows he has the power. >> when mary turned the phrase of people being frustrated and furious, that reminded the last time that we held an attorney general in contempt. the republican congress held eric holder in contempt over fast and furious and nothing happened, because that gets referred to the justice department for the prosecution. eric holder said i think i'll prosecute myself. do you think bill barr is going to have a different answer? you can forget it. that's what's going to happen. the problem, this left/center problem in the democratic party. here's the thing, th left/center fight in the democratic party is, is taking them off of focus because those far left people as jonathan

pointed out who want impeachment, who want contempt of bill barr, who want more subpoenas and more hearings, the presidential candidates are reacting to that. a lot of the congressional people in the house are saying, come on, man, we got to keep this majority in the house, we got to get focused on health care and other issues that may move those center voters their way. >> they don't seem ready to take the foot off the gas. that's all the time we have. thank you for joining us. we'll be right back.

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53 degrees in san francisco. a little sunshine. we'll have temperatures climb to the low 60s but cooler than average opini