>> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos starts right now. tipping point. >> i have news for everybody, get over it. the's goto be political influence in foreign policy. >> the president's top aid admits a quid pro quo with ukraine. undercutting trump's top argument against impeachment. >> i don't know. i don't what that means. >> things have gone from very bad to much worse. >> republicans revolt over the president's withdrawal from syria. >> what we have done to the kurds will stand as a blood stain in the annals of american history. >> as someone who has served in uniform, it is very concerning. >> this was a mistake and i hope it can be repaired. >> as trump awards a massive government contract to his own business. >> we're going to do the 46th g7 summit at the trump national doral. >> this is self-dealing.

this is the utmost grifting and arrogance. >> here is a classic textbook example of the violation of that emoluments clause. >> the president reversed that last move late last night after a week that defied convention, dismayed his allies in congress, deepened his political trouble and raised new questions about abuse of power at home and america's credibility abroad. our guests this week, trump's secretary of state mike pompeo, the top democrat on the foreign relations committee, bob menendez. plus insight and analysis from our powerhouse roundtable with chris christie and rahm emanuel. we'll break down the politics, smoke out the spin. the facts that matter this week. >> announcer: from abc news, it's "this week." here now, chief anchor, george stephanopoulos. good morning and welcome to "this week." we come onto the air after a rare last night retreat from trump, bowing to fierce criticism and the prospect of a new front in the fight over impeachment. trump fired off a tweet shortly

before 10:00 p.m. announcing that next year's g7 summit would not be held at his miami hotel after all. the original announcement made thursday at that stunning press conference where acting chief of staff, mick mulvaney, admitted what the president had been denying for weeks, that military aid in ukraine was conditioned on that country pursuing a political investigation for president trump. >> but to be clear, what you just described is a quid pro quo. it is funding will not flow unless the investigation into the democratic server happens as well. >> we do that all the time with foreign policy. and i have news for everybody. get over it. >> all this as turkey continues to pound the kurdish people who fought side by side with america against isis. attacks enabled president trump's precipitous decision to pull america's forces out of syria. that move has drawn harsh condemnation from even the president's closest allies in congress, the senators he'll need to defend him if and when an impeachment trial comes. in dallas thursday night trump dismissed those concerns.

>> it was unconventional what i did. i said they're going to have to fight a little while. sometimes you have to let them fight a little while, like two kids in a lot. you got to let them fight and then you pull them apart. >> a pause in the fighting negotiated by vice president mike pence and secretary of state pompeo, it's in a tenous state this morning. our foreign correspondent james longman spoke to a kurdish commander who contradicted trump's claim that the kurd are happy with trump's decision. >> translator: i would like to tell mr. trump the kurds are not happy. for us the american troop the back of the kurdish people. the agreement will not stop the genocide of the kurdish people. i would like to say to mr. trump, you must solve this with turkey. >> and we are joined now by the secretary of state, mike pompeo. thank you for joining us this morning, secretary pompeo. let me begin with what we just heard from that kurdish commander who says the kurds are not happy, that this is a betrayal that she fears will lead to genocide. >> george, we need to go back to

where this all began for the trump administration. it began with a situation in syria where the previous president had drawn a red line and failed to enforce it. it began with 4 million people internally displaced or even as many as 6 million people, half a million people killed. this administration came in when isis was on the rise. you remember, george, there people were in cages with their heads being cut off. this administration worked seriously alongside the sdf forces and our allies as well to build a coalition force and take down that caliphate. now the president believes we've accomplished a significant part of our mission and he wants our folks to come home and we're beginning to work on that. this week the vice president and i traveled to ankara after turkey made its decision against the president's desire to make an incursion into syria and we put out a joint statement which we think will really save lives. it's worked so far. there's much work to be done to continue to implement it but we're optimistic.

i got a report within the last half-hour from my senior leaders who indicate that there's relatively little fighting. little spar sporadic small arms fire, a mortar or two. we got wounded in a town last night and we're hoping that the forces will move out of those towns and this cease-fire that the turkish leaders agreed to -- >> the question will be how far they have to remove but as you know, the feelings of betrayal stated by the kurdish commander ghe echoed by many of the president's allies in congress. we saw mitch mcconnell, the republican leader, saying withdrawing from syria is a grave mistake. he calls it a strategic nightmare. lindsey graham has raised coerns as well, as was senator marco rubio on the senate floor. listen. >> we got these 2,000 troops working with the kurds to keep isis from reemerging and to provide leverage in a future syrian settlement to restrain assad's power to safeguard's kurdish interests, our partner's interest and eliminate iranian

influence. every sichkle one of those stated interests that was our policy less than two weeks ago has been wiped out. >> senator rubio was your first choice for president back in 2015. you cited the success you felt against isis over the last couple of years. the concern is that there's going to be backtracking on that now that we've abandoned the allies we were fighting with against isis. >> george, i listened closely to what senator rubio said. each of the interests that he identified, this administration is still fully committed to. i can assure you that the effort to push back against iran are real and continuous, unlike what the last administration did that picked iran as its strategic security partner in the middle east. we've taken an incredibly different approach to that. the islamic republic of iran is feeling it and security, stability in the middle east is increased because of the work we've done. the counter isis campaign, i'm proud of the work that our team has done under president trump's

leadership. not only in countering isis in syria -- you know, george, syria's been a mess for an awful long time. we've been serious about it, thoughtful and strategic and we will continue to make sure that we take the primary effort which is to make sure we keep the american people safe from the threats from radical islamic terrorism wherever we find it. >> didn't the president put those gains at risk by pulling the troops out? we saw the fighting immediately. >> i'm very confident that this administration's efforts to crush isis will continue. >> and lindsey graham raises the other concern as the kurds are withdrawing from that border with turkey, that it would lead to a military occupation that displaces hundreds of thousands. he says that's not a safe zone. it's ethnic cleansing. can you assure the kurdish people and the president's allies in congress that you will not be party to ethnic cleansing? >> george, we were very clear and the vice president could not have been more clear when we were speaking with president erdogan. go take a look at the statement

that was released jointly. no fewer than three of the paragraphs were aimed squarely at ensuring that in this space, this turkish controlled space, that there wouldn't be attacks on minorities, that this was about getting a cease-fire, a secure area, and that this, in fact, will save lives in that very space. that was our mission set. we accomplished it and now we made to make sure that the commitments were honored. >> the turks said they got everything that they wanted. >> yeah, i was there. it sure didn't feel that way when we were negotiating. it was a hard fought negotiation. it began even before the vice president and i arrived in ankara. it lasted hours while we were there. we achieved the outcome that president trump sent us to achieve. >> let me move on now to the situation in ukraine and that press conference by mick mulvaney, the acting chief of staff, on thursday where he said the decision to withhold the military, that it was in part conditioned on the ukraine

pursuing a political investigation for president trump. here's what he said. did he also mention to me in the past the corruption that related to the dnc server, absolutely, no question about that, but that's it. that's why we held up the money. >> so the demand for an investigation into the democrats was part of the reason that he -- >> it was not to withhold funding to the ukraine. >> the look back to what happened in 2016 was part of the things that he was worried about in corruption with that nation. >> withholding the funding? >> yeah. which ultimately then flowed. >> pretty startling admission right there, drawing some criticism from democrats certainly but also some republicans in the senate including lisa murkowski, senator lisa murkowski, who said, quote, you don't hold up foreign aid that we had previously prortd for political initiative, period. is senator murkowski correct? >> george, i never saw that in the decision-making process that i was a part of, the decision surrounding whether there should

be department of defense assistance as well as state department assistance provided to push back against russia. the conversation was always around what were the strategic implications. would that money get to the right place or would there be corruption in the ukraine and the money wouldn't flow to the mission that it was intended for. how do we protect that. is it appropriate for us to provide defensive weapons. george, you'll remember, i don't know why barack obama held up that funding. maybe he had a theory too. i don't know. he never provided it. this administration has done it not once, not twice but now three times. >> but president trump -- >> the people in ukraine are safer and more secure as a result of that and the russians certainly don't appreciate it. >> president trump ordered mick mulvaney to suspend the aid and you saw mr. mulvaney right there say that one of the reasons was indeed this idea that the ukrainians had to pursue these political investigations. >> i'll leave it to the chief of staff to explain what it is he said and what he intended. i can speak clearly to what america's strategic objectives

were in providing this defensive weaponry to the people of ukraine. >> do you agree then with senator murkowski that it would have been inappropriate to withhold military aid unless this political investigation was pursued? >> george, i'm telling you what i was involved with. i'm telling you what i saw transpiring and how president trump was working to make the evaluation about whether it was appropriate to provide this assistance. >> what i'm asking is would it be appropriate to condition -- >> i'm not going to get into hypotheticals and secondary things based on what someone else has said. george, you would have never done it had when you were the spokesman. i'm not going to do it today. >> except it's not a hypothetical -- >> george, you just said if this happened. that is by definition a hypothetical. >> the chief of staff said it did. >> george, you asked me if this happened. it's a hypothetical. i've told you what i observed, what i saw the process related to this very funding. what we did and how we thought about that was aimed at the

strategic interests of the united states of america, the right and appropriate way to ensure that there wasn't corruption in ukraine that would divert these resources to an inappropriate place. >> the evidence in testimony is also establishing that the president's meeting with president zelensky was being conditioned on him pursuing those political investigations. were you aware of that? did you approve? >> george, i haven't had a chance to see the evidence that chance to seas being accumulated. i wish that i could. i frankly wish that state department lawyers were being permitted in the room to hear testimony from state department officials. this is deeply unfair to the officers that serve under me. it's wrong. i can't comment on what they're saying because i have not been permitted to either have a lawyer present or to see the recorded transcripts or the translations of what was said. i can't comment on what people may or may not be saying in that room frankly, you can't either. you weren't there either, george. >> i've read the reports and we've seen the testimony. >> you've seen leaked reporting from democrats. that's right, george. >> some of the testimony has

been released by the witnesses themselves and of course the state department is not complying with some of the subpoenas for documents as well. and we do know that so much -- and this is by his own admission -- that so much of this activity was being carried out by the president's personal lawyer, rudy giuliani. was he acting with your blessing and supervision? >> george, i've had one consistent policy as the secretary of state to not talk about internal deliberations inside the administration. i'm not going to change that policy this morning. >> but this was different. this is not a member of the administration. this is the president's personal lawyer who was pursuing this at the president's direction and going around the normal state department procedures. >> george, private citizens often are part of executing american foreign policy. you know that. you lived that. you want to talk about sydney bloomenthal for a while, george? let's go. i can go all day. >> mr. secretary, of course there have been special envoys for presidents in the past. >> of course there have.

all the time, george, all the time. bill richardson does this kind of work all the time. lots of good, patriotic americans are working to assist the state department, the department of energy, to get good outcomes for the american people. this is completely appropriate. >> they generally have formal appointments. they generally go through reviews for conflicts of interest. we now know that rudy giuliani, mayor giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, was pursuing business interests in the ukraine at the time he was acting an the president's special envoy. doesn't that create at least the appearance of a conflict of interest? >> i missed sydney bloomenthal's conflict of interest clearance. you must have seen that. i did not. >> was there a review of the conflicts for mayor giuliani? >> i don't talk about white house deliberations. >> we do know that he collected a dossier of materials and

passed it to you through the white house. what did you do with it? >> that's true. i received a set of materials. it was in a sealed envelope. i passed it to the appropriate persons inside the state department for their review. i never reviewed them. >> you didn't look at them? >> i did not. >> did you know what rudy giuliani was doing? >> george, i don't talk about internal deliberations inside the administration. >> he said publicly and there's been corroborating testimony from several others, including some of the people you worked with in thate dertment in the foreign service, that he pushed hard for the removal of ambassador marie yovanovitch from her post as ambassador to ukraine, circulated a series of false, what she called defamatory charges against her. were you aware of that? >> george, let's talk about ambassador yovanovitch for just a minute. she was withdrawn from her post a handful of weeks early. she still works at the state department. she's a foreign service officer in good standing. you know this, george, ambassadors serve at the pleasure of the president. when a president loses confidence in an ambassador, it's not in that ambassador, the state department or america's

best interest for them to continue to stay in their post. >> she testified and put out this testimony that in late april she met with john sullivan who told her she was being removed even though she did nothing wrong. that's a quote. why did you approve the removal of an ambassador who had done nothing wrong? >> i'm not going to get into personal matters inside the state department. i've not done it and i'm not going to do it for you here this morning. >> she's saying she's being defamed because of this. she's saying she was told there had been a pressure campaign, that deputy secretary sullivan said there had been a pressure campaign since the summer of 2018 against her led by the president. many foreign services professionals say that you have a duty to speak up for her, that you have a duty to protect her in that position. >> george, in good time all the facts surrounding each of these incidents will become clear. it's not appropriate for me to comment on all the things that happen inside a personnel decision. none of our foreign service officers would welcome the

secretary of state talking about why someone stayed, why someone was removed, why someone was transferred. it wouldn't be appropriate. if we get into it once -- >> why wouldn't it be appropriate? >> i just won't do that, george. >> but sir, if someone is -- if false things are being said about one of your professionals, don't you have a duty to stand up and speak out on behalf of that professional? >> george, no secretary of state has defended its team, its team members, has done things that served them well, that took care of their families, that made sure that they were getting promotions. we have, by the end of this year we have, by the end of this year more foreign service officers on duty than at any time, at any time, george, a couple hundred years of the state department, at any time in the state department's history. we've done great things for these officers. i see these stories about morale being low. i see things precisely the opposite. i see motivated officers. i've watched them perform in syria this week, i've watched them perform in difficult situations during my year and a half as secretary of state. i'm incredibly proud of the work they've done and i will always defend them when it's

appropriate. >> that may be, sir, and your senior adviser, mike mckinley, who also testified on capitol hill this week did praise many aspects of your leadership but pointed out that he tried very hard to get a statement of support for the ambassador after the july 25th phone call which you were on with president trump where he called her bad news. yet that statement didn't come. >> so, mike mckinley served me well for a year and a half. i chose him. i had people tell me he was a great foreign service officer and in fact he served america wonderfully for 37 years. he in fact had the office that was just behind mine, had a door that he could walk in at any time and say whatever he wanted. from the time that ambassador yovanovitch departed ukraine until the time that he came to tell me that he was departing, i never heard him say a single thing about his concerns. >> so you were asked -- >> not once, george, did ambassador mckinley say something to me during that entire time period. >> you were never asked to put out a statement in support of

ambassador yovanovitch? >> george, again, i'm not going to talk about private conversations that i had with my most trusted advisers. i think it's most appropriate that trusted advisers keep these conversations precisely where they are. imagine if it becomes commonplace that a secretary of state would talk about things that his closest advisers said to him. i think you would agree, george, that that advice would change. people would be reluctant to speak. it wouldn't be appropriate. i don't intend to do that. >> this is not a commonplace situation as you know. you have drawn criticism from professionals. bill burns who is the former depthsy secretary of state, served for democratic and republican presidents over 30 years wrote an article called "the demolition of u.s. diplomacy." here's how he described what you allowed with ambassador yovanovtch. secretary pompeo allowed specious opposition research about yovanovitch to circulate around the department and sat on his hands as trump slandered her on the infamous call with

president zelensky and warned ominously that she's going to, quote, go through some things. he goes on to say the ghost of roy cohn was smiling somewhere, comparing it to mccarthyism. your response? >> that's crazy. i think bill burns must be auditioning to be elizabeth warren's secretary of state. >> sir, the question is, did you speak -- >> i mean, people have opinions, george. everyone's entitled to theirs. bill burns is clearly looking for a spot in the next administration. that's fine. he's entitled to that view. i have to tell you, i've had a number of foreign service officers walk into my office and tell me how much they appreciate the way we're handling this process. >> finally, sir, one more quote from mick mulvaney on thursday where he was describing how he saw the foreign service professionals going up to testify on capitol hill this week. let's listen.>> wt you're seein believe, is a group of mostly career bureaucrats who are saying i don't like president trump's politics so i'm going to participate in this witch hunt that they're undertaking on the hill. >> is that how you view those who are testifying? >> no.

i have a different view. my view is that each of us has a solemn responsibility to defend the constitution and to speak the truth. i said this the other day, i hope those officers who go to capitol hill will speak truthfully, that they'll speak completely. i only wish that this was a process that merited such a response. this has been unfair in the nth degree. we have officers there to testify about important security related matters without a state department lawyer in the room and we're not being allowed to know what it says. we're not able to protect the state department. we're not able to protect the united states of america. and adam schiff ought to be embarrassed by the kangaroo court he's running. >> will you testify if you're called by the committee? >> i've said all along i'll do everything i'm required to do by law. >> secretary pompeo, thanks for your time this morning. >> thank you, george. up next, the top democrat on the senate foreign relations committee responses. we'll be right back. the top democrat on the senate foreign relations committee responses. we'll be right back. (vo) rising rents and home prices are pushing americans further from the places they work.

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senate foreign relations committee, bob menendez. senator, welcome. you just heard the secretary of state. he said that our goals in the middle east are still being served. we are still countering isis. we are still countering iran. he said since the president's pullout, stability in the middle east has increased. your response? >> well, i think the secretary lives in a parallel alternate universe. what the president did is a betrayal of the kurds who fought and died alongside of us in pursuit of ending the threat of isis. it's a betrayal of our ally, the state of israel, where, in fact, iran now has an easier facility to have its land bridge with sophisticated weapons to try to attack israel. it's a betrayal of our foreign policy to the russians who are the big winners of this, and that's part of the problem here. all roads lead to russia with the president and every time that there is an issue or a conflict, it seems that russia

ends up winning. and so, i see it totally different. i was at that white house meeting and i have to tell you when the president of the united states said we shouldn't worry about 7,000 miles away and those terrorists there, well, on september 11th they traveled over 7,000 miles and ultimately did the worst attack in our nation's history. so there's no guarantees that the administration has, as it relates to the reconfiguration of isis and the 10,000 isis fighters, that the kurds were detaining. there's no guarantees from iran that they won't build their land bridge and threaten israel. there's no guarantees about our interest. and in fact, russia not only is going to have a major say about the future of syria, everybody in the region is recalibrating and rethinking about what their alliances should be. >> the question is what can be done at this point? senator mcconnell, the republican leader, said that the united states should prepare for the reintroduction of troops. president trump seems not interested in that at all.

i know you've been working on a possible resolution condemning the president's action. any progress there? do you expect that that will be held up in the senate even though one has passed the house? >> first of all, you know, the president unleashed this disaster and i think that there's going to be a real threat to the kurds of ethnic cleansing. in terms of congress pushing back, the resolution that i sponsored with senator young in the senate, bipartisan resolution is the same that the house passed 354 to 60 condemning the president's actions and calling upon a change of course. secondly, i have legislation with senator risch, the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee, to do a series of things. a part of it is to sanction turkey, also sanction russia, also ask for a complete isis strategy as to how we finalize defeating isis because the department of defense inspector general tells us there are still

18,000 isis fighters in syria. if the 10,000 that have been detained by the kurds get released, that's a potential fighting force of hardened fighters with 30,000. to me that's a clear and present danger to the united states and its security and interests. so our legislation would try to have a comprehensive approach and also to seek to provide some humanitarian and other assistance to the kurds, and we need to do this because if we send a global message, george, that, in fact, we will abandon those who have fought alongside with us, then others in the world when we are asking them to fight with us or for us will say why should i do that when you're finished using me we're going to die on the battlefield. >> let's turn to the issue of ukraine and the impeachment inquiry. you heard secretary pompeo say that he did not see any conditioning of military aid on the pursuit of political investigations despite what he's heard -- what we heard from mick mulvaney.

based on everything you've seen, the testimony you've seen in the mick mulvaney, is there enough f evidence for you as a juror to vote to convict if impeachment comes to you? >> well george, i won't comment about what and if that moment comes whern the house ultimately adopts articles of impeachment and then of course the senate will act as a jury so i'm not going to prejudice my views in that regard, but i will say this about the situation in ukraine. the reality is, from my perspective as the senior democrat on the senate foreign relations committee, what was done is extraordinary and extraordinarily wrong. the president extorted or is seeking to extort president zelensky of ukraine. he held back over $400 million in foreign assistance that a bipartisan members of the congress voted to give ukraine to fight who? to fight risussia. once again russia is involved. and the delaying of that was extraordinary. normally once the department notices the office of management and budget that they want to

expend the moneys, it takes five days. this took two months to ultimately finally get cleared, and clearly everything that led up to that call with president zelensky by president trump was all to exert pressure on ukraine. it was the worst of weaponizing u.s. foreign assistance. >> does secretary pompeo have a point about the process? would it be more legitimate if the house passed a formal resolution on the floor authorizing inquiry and expanded the rights of the state department and the administration witnesses in that inquiry? >> first of all, there is absolutely no constitutional obligation for the house to do that and so they'll choose the process, but i laughed when i was hearing secretary pompeo in his interview with you because the secretary and the state department have done everything humanly possible to impede, to obstruct and not to provide

information. so now his call for being present, all he's ever said is no in the oversight of our committee, in the pursuit of the house's information, all he's ever said is no, obstruct, delay and ultimately not cooperate. so his desire now to cooperate is pretty amazing. >> senator menendez, thanks for your time this morning. >> thank you. when we come back, nate silver from fivethirtyeight and our roundtable with rahm emanuel and chris christie. back, nate silver from fivethirtyeight and our roundtable with rahm emanuel and chris christie. so chevron's finding more homegrown energy, more precisely. digitizing the way we work with advanced data analytics helping us develop more productive wells. and we're exploring ways to use renewable energy in our operations. doin' more... ...with less. more data and precision... to help meet growing demand. that's going to get a lot of likes. chevron. innovating to meet the energy demands of today and tomorrow. this is charlie not coughing because he took delsym 12-hour.

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no one wanted to question this system, and in 2016 he fundamentally changed politics in america. we, right now, have one of the best democratic presidential primary fields in a generation, and much of that is thanks to the work that bernie sanders has done in his entire life. >> there you see aoc endorsing bernie sanders at a massive rally in queens on saturday. sanders also picked up the endorsement of fellow squad member, congresswoman ilhan omar, after his energetic comeback to the debate stage on tuesday night. but will endorsements like this be decisive in this year's primary fight. we asked fivethirtyeight's nate silver. >> in 11 of 16 nonincumbent nominations since 1972, the candidate who led endorsements

before iowa wound up winning a nomination 69% of the time. of course you can probably all think of one recent exception, donald trump. trump had zero endorsements from members of congress until weeks after iowa and new hampshire. instead, the endorsement leader was jeb bush. but jeb got 2.8% of the vote in iowa and trump got elected president of the united states. so, has everything changed in the age of trump? well maybe. endorsements used to be a way for the party establishment to weigh in, but there's more tension now between the establishment and the party basis, especially for the gop. also, voters have more information at their fingertips and more ways to participate in the political process, like on social media. that can allow voters to take the process into their own hands, whether the establishment likes what they do or not. just one more thing. if you look at endorsements this year, they suggest the democratic primary is still wide open. joe biden leads in endorsements

in fivethirtyeight's tracking but he has only about 25% of them so far. second is kamala harris and third is cory booker. warren is just fourth by contrast, and sanders, even with new endorsements this weekend, is stuck in sixth place. so i find that endorsements matter when there's a consensus of them that point clearly in one direction. this year there's not, at least not yet. it's as though democrats are telling their voters you're going to have to decide on this nominee for yourself. >> kind of the way it goes. nate, thanks very much. you can read more of nate's 2020 analysis at fivethirtyeight.com. our roundtable is up next. 2020 analysis at fivethirtyeight.com. our roundtable is up next.

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honest here and saying how he's going to pay for this and that taxes are going to go up. i'm sorry, elizabeth, but you have not said that and i think we owe it to the american people to tell them where we're going to send the invoice. >> remember that debate was actually this week. it was tuesday night. so much has happened, so much to talk about in our roundtable. joined by abc news analyst, former governor of new jersey, chris christie, former mayor of chicago and obama chief of staff rahm emanuel, heidi heitkamp who served as a democratic senator from north dakota, and republican strategist sara fagan, served under george w. bush. welcome to you all. let's talk about the one thing we haven't talked about too much on the show so far, that decision by president trump last night to reverse awarding the g7 to the doral. he clearly wanted it to go to his own hotel, chris, but he felt he had no choice. >> he had no choice. it shouldn't have been done in the first place. it's a move to get out of it and get that out of the papers and

off the news. there's lots of other things that the president needs to be focused on. i know he loves his properties and he loves having people to his properties, and he loves showing off those properties. i understand all that but this was just an unforced error and i'm glad they fixed it. they got toe to move on now. >> you've served as white house chief of staff, rahm. the question is how this got this far. >> as a mayor and governor, this would never get through procurement process. you cannot send the airport contract to christie inc for construction. you just cannot do that, full stop. there's no process and nobody to tell him no. i don't care how much he loves his properties. you cannot do what he just did. i would put this in context, reverse on doral, mulvaney had to reverse, syria policy had to reverse. there is no thinking through of a decision and the consequence and how it rolls out. this is just in less than 48 hours, three decisions had to be turned around or attempted to be turned around. >> one of the big things he had to factor in is he started to see some criticism on this of republicans, particularly

republican senators who he needs more than ever. >> i think that's right and particularly over the syria issue he's seen criticism from republican senators, but he's heading into a very tumultuous period for his presidency in the run-up to his re-election which means he needs friends and he doesn't need to be doing things and doral was an example that put republican members of congress and senators on the defensive. so he needs to be thinking more wholistically about his party and not just about his own individual interests. >> you served as a senator from a red state, democratic senator from a red state. do you think democrats overall are getting more comfortable with their decision on impeachment? >> i think they're getting more comfortable because the president is making it easier for them to get comfortable. the chief of staff clearly made it a lot easier to be comfortable. you saw republican defections from that press conference. you're going to see this more and more as more and more information comes out. you're going to see more and more come and i don't think it's just going to be democrats. i think it's going to be republicans who are really comfortable saying enough is enough. we're done. >> chris, i wonder if you have insight into what actually

happened there on thursday. jon karl was pushing mick mulvaney on that. he finally came out with a clear admission that this was at least one of the factors for why the aid was held up. it appeared that he didn't mean to do it. on the other hand, the white house -- and this is picking on a point heidi just made -- has to know that more information is coming out and was it perhaps an attempt to get ahead of that information? >> i doubt it was an attempt to get ahead of information. i think it was a mistake. where it came from and how the chief of staff decided to do that, i think you saw pretty clearly that the secretary of state was expressing the same type of concerns that i understand white house lawyers were expressing about the press conference. so, i don't think it was some grand plan. i'd also say and i've said this to the president as recently as this week. we have to be in friend-making mode. we have to be exactly what sara said is exactly right. there's a time to be combative and there's a time to be in friend-making mode, vis-a-vis

your own party. and right now when you're facing impeachment which by the way is predetermined as i've said before. >> house. >> house. impeachment, not removal. impeachment is predetermined. they're going to do it and he should be humbled to the fact that that's going to happen and he's not going to be removed and then we're going to move to a presidential campaign. the best part of the president's whole week is what you started off with, which is the more people in this country see democrats on the campaign stage, elizabeth warren unable to answer questions. it's a binary choice here. >> two things, if i was chief of staff, get yourself a lawyer and do it fast. number two, what's going to happen and there's a cascading effect. you're right about the house and i think you're probably right about the senate except for this, president trump said he's going to be remembered for foreign policy. you're having a cascading effect

that will affect republican voters. you have republicans attacking him now on syria. you got ukraine. doral, until reverses it, foreign policy. that foreign policy will start to erode republican numbers. his benchmark now is 40. the moment that number -- his number goes to 40 or below you're going to see more and more republican senators walk away because the only thing that held democrats for bill clinton was he was at 68%. there's a number in that senate cloak room. there is a number floating around. it could be 41, 39, but when he dips and hits that number in the poll, watch them run for the hills. >> the reason i disagree with that is because what's their alternative. >> that's the issue. >> he's not going to get removed. >> but it's going to have a -- when republicans attacked him, it has a cascading effect on weak republican voters who don't like him. >> you have to look at where -- >> elizabeth warren, it's not going to matter any wayway.

>> there's two senators in north dakota who aren't going to change their mind and senators down that corridor who are not going to change their mind so it's not about a public opinion poll. it's about individual states and how popular he remains in a state like nebraska or kansas which has a senate race. >> that's right. remember, all of these folks, many of these folks are on the ballot next november so republicans' fortunes will rise and fall with the president and th know that and they're not going to be in a position to go impeach him in the senate. that would be the worst thing they could do for themselves and ultimately, unfortunately, too many politicians are mostly self-interest self-interested. >> it does seem clear that senator mcconnell -- >> no offense. present company excluded. >> there's breaking news. >> the calculation that he can't shut this down quickly, that in order to protect his senators who are up next year like corey gardner in colorado, susan collins in maine, that he has to have what's perceived to be a

full process. >> it's very clear to me that mitch mcconnell says it's going to be a full process. now, he wants to get it done by the end of the year. this is the great calculation. if democrats really thought this was a slam dunk, they would vote on an inquiry in the house. she clearly -- congresswoman pelosi, speaker pelosi, is not certain yet how this is going to play out and she is keeping her cards close, and so she is timing this in a way where i think she thinks it's going to be most advantageous but she's not certain. >> i don't know, i think she's lost control of the timing and part of the timing is driven by how many witnesses they have to speak to. >> we have to remember one thing. the hearings haven't even been on tv yet. the last three weeks have not been good. wait until the hearings and you get somebody to testify and they have to take oath. look, i agree he's not going to get impeached, removed in the senate but the problem for the republicans is in '98 they overshot the runway on

impeachment. their problem now is if they undershoot the runway because they're trying to be loyal to trump. and the problem for democrats is this becomes the only issue for democrats rather than the agenda. >> they're not going to undershoot the runway on impeachment. mcconnell is going to handle it the right way. i don't care how many hearings they have. if it ends with him not being removed, it is a failure for the democrats and pelosi's understood this all along. and the longer it goes, the better this is going to be for the president in the end if it doesn't end in remove. >> i think that this has real risk in michigan. it has real risk in wisconsin, and so you've got to look at this on a state by state basis. >> risk for whom? >> risk for the president. i mean, we've done polling, right? taking a look at rural voters, it's a third, a third, a third. a third thinks this is nonsense, all out to get the president. a third say hang him from the highest tree and a third say we're waiting. so if that third who's waiting, who actually sees things in michigan and wisconsin where we looked at social responses to this, if they cut for impeachment, the president's in

trouble. >> we haven't even talked about the other investigations here which are all going to play out in the backdrop of an investigation -- impeachment investigation. the doj ig has a report that's about to come out and that may not be good news for the former administration. the john durham investigation that ag barr has authorized, again, i think there's this notion in some corners of the media that these are a bunch of crackpot -- this is a crackpot conspiracy theory. we don't know what that's going to turn up and we don't have the facts around that. clearly that is widening and so this is all going to be debated. to governor christie's point, this is likely not a slam dunk for democrats the way they think it is. >> fair point, we don't know what those investigations are going to find and we don't know when they're going to be released but at the same time there's a third investigation

going on right now, the southern district of new york appears to be putting rudy giuliani, the president's lawyer at risk as well. i take all the conventional wisdom. i think it's not likely that the president is going to be removed from office by the senate but he's not in control of events right now. you've got the courts. you've got the congress. you've got the news. we don't know what's -- >> listen, what i would say to him is, tumble to that. you're not in control of events, but they are. they're not necessarily going to go their way. so don't act like you're in control. let them go. the democrats want to do this. you're right, george, nancy pelosi's lost control of this. the aoc tape you saw there, believe me, every time aoc is on tv saying the stuff she was saying on there, it's a great day for the president of the united states. so, you know, if i were the president i'd say listen, go do other things, talk about what you're doing on opioid addiction and the success that you're seeing there. talk about other things that are going on in the economy in the administration that are good and let this thing play out on the sidelines. you can't control it anyway.

>> the problem is he has no way of walling it off and saying hey, your chief of staff said there's a quid pro quo. that's supposed to be walled off. >> the other thing is -- >> you are not -- you are not going to win this investigation. that's the point. people have investigation fatigue and they're picking their corners. the question is, is there going to be enough that comes out of the grand jury that the house is conducting that's going to shock people's conscience. >> the best thing the democrats can do also is a walloff, meaning there's an impeachment process and here's what we're going to do on the agenda and that would be good for the presidential candidates to be speaking with -- >> do you think he's going to pass a trade agreement before the end of the year? >> you got to do the whole thing. you got to do prescription drugs and price control, the whole agenda on infrastructure and

you would force the president's hand because he has to pick between the republicans that don't want to do it and he that does. >> i agree with you on the face. the challenge is that's not the agenda. infrastructure and trade isn't the agenda that the democratic base wants to talk about. they want to talk about medicare for all, a green new deal. i think the best line of that debate was senator klobuchar who said the american people deserve to know where we're going to send the invoice. you had the clip. we're going to see that over and over gen. >> is chris christie right that that debate helped president trump? >> i don't think so because i don't think a lot of people are watching who haven't already made up their mind. let's put that to the side. >> that is not our defense. >> there is a bill that nancy is promoting, hr-3, which is prescription drugs and that will be the foundation of what she's doing. she's very strategic about the issues she's advancing and i think very smart about how she's trying to basically continue the work of the house at the same time they're engaging in this. >> democrats on health care, the

issue for democrats is about price control and cost control. it is not about only coverage. it's about cost. >> right. >> and we have got to rewire ourselves. >> that's not what anybody heard on thursday night. >> no. the problem is -- and here's the other thing historically, let alone policy-wise. the fact is when president obama did the aca, it was to be built upon, not to be pulled out and start all over again. this was a 100-year effort. that's what's insane about this process. your next step to be early buy-in for medicare for early retirees and take on the fact that president trump's budget has the largest cut in medicare ever by any president. >> i'm so glad he's not on that stage, okay, talking about this because -- >> he? >> you. >> i'm so glad because that's the kind of thing that would appeal to some people in the united states. instead what we hear is who can spend more, who can get medicare for all, and having people attack other people for not being for medicare for all.

every debate, once a month the president can be guaranteed at least once a month of a win and that's when those people get on that stage. >> even on the issue that we have domination on which is health care, we're on the wrong part of this discussion and not getting the full value of that actual nomination of that issue. >> one of the things that you saw on tuesday was, as vice president biden has had some troubles, been falling in the polls, you really saw mayor pete and amy klobuchar trying to get that space. >> trying to fill in that space. one thing amy and pete did is say, look, let's stop talking about who's going to pay but about how we're buying and who's going to reduce the cost. they did breach that point although they get down in the weeds on who's paying. >> the one thing i would say is one of the parts of the primaries is picking issues that also help you in the general. this issue is not even out of the primary and it's got problems. the 2% tax that earn above $50 million is a winner in the primary and the general.

>> winner in the general? >> definitely. seen all the polling on it. independent voters, because the republicans are going to fight it and people are going to say this is about equity and fairness. >> shows i live in manhattan. unpopular. that's all we have time for today. thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. check out "world news tonight." i'll see you tomorrow on "gma." nday with us. check out "world news tonight." i'll see you tomorrow on "gma."

up next, hillary clinton and her daughter chelsea are in san francisco today. where they'll be and what they'll be talking about. good morning. what a beautiful view, a little bit of haze there, 52 degrees at the golden gate bridge. ging for a high of 69. what a day across the bay. we're starting our warm-up. i'll tell you how warm it will get, next on "abc 7 mornings" at 9:00. in the human brain, billions of neurons play in harmony. for people with parkinson's, some neurons change their tune, causing uncontrollable tremors. now, abbott technology can target those exact neurons. restoring control and harmony, once thought to belost forever. the most personal technology is technology with the power to change your life.

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