captioning sponsored by cbs >> brennan: it's sunday, june 16th. i'm margaret brennan, and this is "face the nation." tensions in the middle east erupt it is a u.s. accuses iran of the attacking two oil tankers in the gulf of oman a and firing a missile at a u.s. drone surveying the damage. >> we will get the latest from secretary of state mike pompeo and arkansas republican senator tom cotton. >> president trump says he would be open to offers 0, assistance from foreign countries who say they have damaging information about his opponents. >> those sort of things -- >> that made republicans and white house advisors drink and democrats pounce. >> we sat down with southbend inindiana mayor pete buttigieg one of four, 24 democrats

running for president and also talk with the chairman of the south intelligence committee adam schiff. plus as the 2020 candidates pick up the pace, offering more policies and more personal attacks. >> joe biden is a dummy. >> the president is literally and existential threat. >> brennan: we will kick off the 2020 cbs news battleground tracker with a look at where the democrats wh it comes to theirto nominee plus have analysis on all of the political news of the week just ahead on "face the nation". >> good morning, and welcome to "face the nation". we begin today with the increasing tensions between the u.s. and iran. and secretary of state mike pompeo. good morning, mr. secretary and happy father's day. >> thank you. >> good morning. >> we have had a series of events in past days, the attacks on the tankers and these reports

of a missile being fired at a u.s. drone. how is the u.s. going to respond? >> i think you have to put it in the context of 40 years of behavior inside the islamic republic of iran, this is consistent with how they have behaved previously and he did it when they were in the jcpla and built the missile program and sanctions and took american sailors hostage, thi this this caused much trouble around the world this last 40 days we saw a number of actives not just these past two but four other commercial ships which challenged the international norms of freedom of navigation, the united states is considering a full range of options, we briefed the president a couple of types, whether he continue to keep him updated and we are confident that we can take a set of actions that can restore deterrence which is our mission set. >> brennan: you say a full range of options. does that include a military response? >> of course, of course the president will consider everything we need to do to make sure. the president said we don't want iran to get a nuclear weapon, the previous administration put

them on a pathway that virtually guaranteed they could get there so we withdrew from the ridiculous jcpla and moving ourselves towards a set of policies .. which will convince iran al n you haven them attacking international waterways and trying to frankly drive up the price of crude oil around the world so the world will cry uncle and -- >> brennan: let's go through that if they are so cash strapped and need the money why are they attacking them. >> they can't sell their crude oil, we have sanctioned them, we put sanctions in playing from opportunity poi 7 million barrels of day with american sanctions. >> brennan: sat come related release this video of purporting to show a revolutionary patrol boat pulling along a side these boats and hauling away a mine from these ships. >> how certain are you this is the irgc and will you take that evidence and present it to our allies and the other nations? >> of course we will and we don't just purport. that's what a that video is. this was taken from an american

camera. there is the real data. yes. we have shared it with allies already. you had the chance to see it. i made a bunch of phone calls yesterday amend make a whole bunch more calls today. the world needs to unite against this threat from the islamic republic of iran. >> brennan: and is the irgc definitely the revolutionary the revolutionary guard corps. >> china gets 80 percent of its oil transiting through the gulf of hormuz, they are incredibly dependent on these resources, we are prepared to do our part. we always defend freedom of and a half gaze and going to work to build out a ton of countries that have deep vested about military response you are talking about keeping the waterways open and a not at this point talking about a strike on iran? >> goodness, president trump said very clearly he doesn't want to go to war, at the same time we made very clear -- >> brennan: do you have the legal authorization for a strike on iran? >> we always have the authorization to defend american interests. remember they now have attacked

u.s. aircraft. on june 6th, there was a missile fired from yemen that we assess had iranian assistance that took down and mq 9 aircraft these are argument attacks on international norms and on american interests and we always have the right to defend our country. >> brennan: but i ask you because there are questions about whether the existing authorization for use of military force, amf would actually include a strike on iran. >> sure. are you confident you could go and not have to ask congress for rmission to take action? >> i don't want to get into hypotheticals but the american people should be very confident the actions that the united states takes under president trump will always be lawful, always consistent with our constitution and always do the hard tasks it takes to protect american interests wherever they are. >> brennan: but do you need congress's permission? >> to do what, margaret? depending -- i don't have the answer to the question in the abstract. >> brennan: you said a range of options are being looked at a so -- >> every option we look at will be the allly lawful. >> brennan: well i want to ask

you, that because when you were trying to lay out this case, as you know, some allies have said that video released was not enough to convince them, with the exception of the uk and saudi arabia, some allies are saying we need see more and hear more from the united states. president trump as you said he campaigned against middle east wars, but there is also this perception that the administration is spoiling for this fight. you were a vocal critic when you were in congress of the nuclear deal you called the jcpoa a earlier, the national security advisor right now .. so many architects of the 2003 war in iraq. according to the latest economist poll, 51 percent of americans say the president is not honest versus 33 who say he is. if you, if you have a credibility gap that i something to the american public. how do you resolve that? >> well, we are not selling anything. these are simple facts. i have had many conversations over the past frankly weeks talking about iran a's activity.

no one doubts the dataset, i have, i haven't heard a single person. >> brennan: the german foreign minister has not seen enough. >> he has seen mor more than tht video and will continue to see more. i will concede that there are countries that wish this 0 would just go away and act counterfactual no one disputes this is the a iran taking these action as to deny this international right-of-way, waterway and the freedom of navigation that is a fundamental right of every country to travel through that. i have seen no one deny it. and i am confident as we continue to develop the fact pattern countries around the world will not only accept the basic facts which i think are indisputable but will come to understand that this is an important mission for the world. >> brennan: one of the things when you were at the podium at the state department earlier this week you presented as a fact was an attack that was carried out in kabul in may. the taliban said they carried it out but you blamed iran for it. what evidence do you have that iran was behind that attack? >> margaret in that same statement the taliban said they

killed ten people i would suggest to you the credibility of the taliban is not something you want to bring on to your show. >> brennan: but you -- >> we have confidence that iran instigated this attack i can't share anymore of the intelligence but i wouldn't have said it if the intelligence community hadn't become convinced this was with the case. >> brennan: so there is more that you can't share with us to back that up? >> yes, ma'am. that is correct. >> brennan: iran state media says they are going to start looking at ramping up their production of nuclear fuel. what does the u.s. do to stop this if you already have withdrawn from the nuclear accord? >> think about that. iran a is now announcing that in a matter of days they can begin to spin up their nuclear program. this tells you how flawed the deal was. it tells you that deal had no capacity to actually stop -- >> brennan: what do you do now? just put more sanctions on? desperation doesn't always lead to the best decision making. >> our intention is this. we know that their nuclear program accelerates if they have more money and wealth. if they have more capacity, more

resources they have access to melts and to materials and to fissile material if we relieve sanctions they are a greater risk to the united states 0 so our politician is very clear, deny them the wealth and resources and their capacity to build a nuclear program and prepared to do all it takes to prevent that from happening a. >> brennan: i want to ask you quickly about russia, the "new york times" is reporting that the u.s. is escalating digital attacks, cyber attacks inside of russia. to hit back an attempted interference in 2018. the president has called this report both false and treasonous which then suggests that there is some truth to it. so which is it? >> never comment on intelligence matters. >> brennan: the matter, the president says said -- >> i never commenting from intelligence matters, having cia director, you know how important it is and your viewers should know president trump has taken enormous effort to ensure that our elections are not interferei

no rus not from any other country in the world. it is a serious matter, it is one that this administration took seriously at the direction of president trump, from the very beginning of his time in office and will continue to do that. i only wish the previous administration had been so serious about preventing election interference. >> brennan: it is interesting that we are sharpening this point because it is the same week when we heard from the president as you know we told an interviewer on abc earlier this week that he would first listen to a foreign government if they tried to offer him dirt on an opponent and then make a decision as to whether or not to inform the fbi. the former cia director, someone who talks every day to foreign governments what would you advise the president to do? >> president trump clarified his remarks. i think it is pretty clear he will do the right thing. i am highly confident that i don't have anything else to add. i saw his remarks. he said, he said, i think in both instances, to both he said he would report this to the fbi. look, you all present this --

>> he used the word maybe -- >> listened to this very closely. the real estate made very clear he is going to do the right thing. i have enormous confidence, i have watched him do it. >> brennan: call the fbi? >> i have watched him do the right thing every time we have had an important national security decision to be made, he evaluated options and made very good choices about how to proceed. >> brennan: mr. secretary, thank you for your time. >> margaret, thank you. >> brennan: we turn now to arkansas republican senator tom cotton, in addition to serving on the intelligence and armed services committees he has also written a new book called sacred duty, a soldier's tour at arlington national cemetery. good morning and happy father's day, senator. >> good morning, margaret, thanks for having me on. >> brennan: you have long been defined as a hawk on iran. you see these recent attacks, these are commercial vessels, not military installations. what kind of responses is warranted? >> well, iran for 40 years had engaged in this kind of attacks, going back to 1980s, in fact, ronald reagan had to reflag a lot of vessels going through the

gulf and take military action against iran a in 1988. these unprovoked attacks a warrant retaliatory strikes. >> brennan: you are comparing the tanker war in eight a advertise to now and saying that is the kind of military response you want to see? we can make a military 0 response in a time and manner of our choosing, but, yes, unprovoked attacks on commercial shipping warrant a retaliatory military strike against the islamic republic of iran. >> brennan: a retaliatory strike? when we had secretary pompeo on just a few moments ago he said the u.s. always has the authorization to defend american interests. as someone who sits in congress, do you believe that he can act, the administration can act without coming to congress first? >> yes, margaret, going back to president washington and all the way to president trump the fastest way to get the "fire and fu" of the military unleashed on you is interfering with the open navigation in the sea and air and this is what iran is

doin important choke points the president has the right to act to defend american interests certainly it would be keeping in what president obama did unwisely in week long campaign to over throw the government there, what i am talking about is not like what we have seen in iraq for the last 16 years or afghanistan for the last 18 years, a retaliatory military vikings against iran that make it clear we will not tolerate any kind of attacks on commercial shipping on the open assess. >> brennan: so you believe the existing authoritying for military force is sufficient. you also said though as someone who served in "iraq you have an am a appreciation for the need to be careful in parsing intelligence in first reports. how do you convince american people that they need to stomach something in terms of a potential strike that you are describing as somewhat easy to carry out? when there was such a vast underestimation of what u.s. force would bring about in iraq and elsewhere in the past? >> margaret, those are two very

different things and in 200gee t like every western intelligence agency was trying to assess the state of the weapons of mass ths states worked hardest to make secret there is not much to assess here. there is 0 easy to see with the iranian sailors go into a ship and take the mines off of it. >> iranian soldiers boarded and took hostage the crew of one of those ships they just released yesterday, they tried to shoot down one of our surveillance aircraft over the persian gulf as we are simply trying to on for what happened there. as we heard secretary pompeo say they are increasing attacks on american support by supporting at taliban attack. so there is no doubt here what iran is up to. they are struggling with with the sanctions that we have placed on them, the status quo is unacceptable and hoping they can drive up the price of oil and therefore benefit from it since their oil exports declined so much and a also get more pressure put the united states to back off our campaign of maximum pressure, that is not

going happen. if anything we need to increase that pressure and i think this unprovoked attack on commercial shipping warrants retaliatory military strikes. >> brennan: okay. so that's 0 a step farther than what the president said the, to the pompeo said the president is willing toma i willalk about what the president said this week he said he would listen as you heard in the abc interview to foreign countries who might have dirt on his opponents before deciding whether or not to report it to the fbi. doesn't this undermine all of the efforts to make our elections secure when you have the real estate of the united states say something like that? >> no, margaret, se he said as well, and not just on abc but especially on "fox and friends", later in the week, that he wouldn't report those kind of contacts to the fbi, that's a very different thing too that what happened in 2016, when -- >> brennan: -- now and what we are talking about now in terms of negative -- >> the president said he would report that to the fbi and remember that is just simply

receiving information, and in a hypothetical, what happened in 2016 is hillary clinton hired a foreign spy to then recruit it, let me finish who then recruited russian spies to fabricate lies about her political opponents, that were then used to then used to generate a law enforcement investigation into the administration's political -- a. >> brennan: so you 0 are okay with what the president said. >> the president said he would report those kind of contacts. >> brennan: he said maybe. he said maybe. i am asking you. i ask you -- the president said he would as anyone should, and what people should not do is what hillary clinton and the democrats did which is hire a foreign spy to recruit russian spies to fabricate lies about a their political comments. >> brennan: is tom cotton's answer maybe when it comes to offer you and your 0 campaign dirt. >> i would report those contacts to the fbi. >> brennan: thank you very much. senator. thank you. >> we will be back in one minute with 0 congressman adam schiff. >>

>> brennan: we are back now with california congressman adam schiff, the chairman of the

house intelligence committee. happy father's day to you too. >> thank you a. >> brennan: good to have you here. you heard tom crof ste lay out this case against iran. you, because you are on the intelligence committee have been tracking the intelligence as well. is there any question in your mind that it is iran and tits revolutionary guard that is behind these attacks? >> this was an unfortunate iran is behind the attacks, i the evidence is very strong and compelling and in fact i think this was a class a screwup by iran to insert a mine on the ship, it didn't designate, they had to go back and retrieve it, i can imagine there are some iranian heads rolling from that botched operation. but nonetheless, the problem is that we are struggling even in the midst of this solid evidence to persuade our allies to join us in any kind of a response, and it shows just how isolated the united states has become, our allies warned the united states, i think our intelligence

agency as warned policymakers that this kind of iranian reaction was likely, a result of a policy of withdrawing from the iran nuclear agreement and so what we see is a split of the u.s. from our allies and we see russia and china coming together and having iran's back. this is i think the worst of all a situations and the maximum pressure campaign has maximally failed and only heightened the risk of conflict for my republican senator cotton implicate we attack iran and provoke a war there is no congress 0 natural, congressional approval is necessary. congressional approval is necessary to initiate hostilities against iran. we should be trying to corral a response though from the international community to protect shipping, to impose sanctions but because we have so alienated ourselves from our allies that is not happening. >> brennan: do you see the risk of this getting out of

control and escalating further? i mean you seeking war. senator cotton is laying out a very different pathway. >> i think that is true. certainly the president has said he doesn't want war but nonetheless his people and i don't know whether there is pompeo or bolton or both, seem to be taking actions to undercut that ambition to stay out of war pair, at a time when the president sent a message apparently through the japanese prime minister of an interest in going back to the table to negotiate, bolton was announcing new sanctions on iran. now is that an effort to scuttle the president's effort to initiate a dialogue? it certainly seemed to have that effect, but i think the whole idea that somehow through this pressure campaign we were going force iran to capitulate and say okay we will come back to the table and give up everything was dangerously naive in the first place and this is what our allies are reacting to.

this was eminently foreseeable, these attacks on ships were imminently foreseeable and the fact that our renigging on the deal hasn't made us safer is part of the proof. and i think for the secretary to tells you this morning that see the flaws in the nuclear deal, iran can go back to enriching. we left the nuclear deal. how is that to make the case that the nuclear deal was flawed? we left the deal and now we are going to complain that iran is leaving as well? >> brennan: i want to switch gears to talk a little bit about a russia. there is this ne "new york time" report i am sure you saw that the u.s. is stepping up cyber, i guess offensive actions to shut down potentially russian infrastructure if needed, part of its retaliation for an attempt to interfere in elections. including 2018 and now. this is the national security community responding in a stronger way to

russian interference than what we hear from the president trump himself? >> certainly i think the intelligence community is training its focus and resources on the russian threat, even if the president isn't. i can't comment on what the, whether "the new york times" report is accurate or inaccurate but certainly we have had a heightened focus on russian meddling in our elections and persistent concerns about russia and other nations preparing the battlefield in terms of our energy grid and establishing a deterrent i think is very important, but that 0 effort to establish a deterrent is dramatically undercut when the president a month ago told putin over the phone he still thinks the russian interference in our election because hoax, when the president says that he still is open to receiving foreign help and a he may or may not call the fbi, what i found most disturbing about "the new york times" story about whether we are preparing the battlefield in terms of the electrical grid in russia was the fact that a

security officials with the administration felt they couldn't tell this to the president because he might compromise that information in a conversation with the russians or he might countermanned their orders, their military decisions because of the president's obsequious attitude towards russia. >> brennan: is congress getting briefed on that,? is there congressional oversight of 0 this program? >> we are certainly, and again i can't confirm whether the program that is described in "the new york times" is either accurate or inaccurate, but we certainly impress the, press the intelligence community to be briefed and currently informed and i think we are being kept informed, but it is a continual effort. >> brennan: you said recently that you may subpoena the fbi director, chris wray to ask him questions about the original counterintelligence investigation into the trump campaign as it relates to 2016. why is that necessary? are you still suggesting that

the president may be a russian what i am suggesting is that the counterintelligence investigation that began when the fbi had concerns that people around the president and, people around the president and ultimately the president were a were a foreign power we couldn't get a briefing since james comey was filed. now we are just starting to get some information from the fbi, i think the threat to subpoena the director had some it packet, but we still don't know just who did the fbi have concerns about, what fines did they make? the special counsel does refer in his report to fbi agents who were embedded -- in the headquarters, we need see those findings. >> brennan: congressman, thank you very much, and we will be back in just a moment. >>

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0. >> brennan: we will be right back with a lot more face a face the nation, including an interview with southbend indiana mayor pete buttigieg. >>

>> brennan: welcome back to welcome with back to "face the nation". south bend 18 naah mayor pete buttigieg is one of 24 democrats running for president, he is 37 years old and if he wins he will be the youngest president ever. he would also be the first openly gay president. we caught one him on the campaign trail in virginia. >> you fault the democrats in your speech for not having much of a strategic foreign policy for the past few decade, what do you mean by that? >> i think it is difficult, even confusing to figure out what our foreign policy is, because democrats became so absorbed in opposing whatever the republicans were doing. now often rightly so with the, what the republicans were doing was often terrible but we got so sucked into that.

for example, take the iraq war, which i have opposed as a student and continue to think was a terrible idea. we were so horrified by the way that democracy promotion was done at gunpoint then, that it very nearly made our party into isolationists when actually we often have been the ones who have believed in more international engagement. >> brennan: so you would fault joe biden wh who you will be std okay on the debate stage with for his vote? >> i think that vote was a mistake and i have a different view on that conflict. but it is more than any individual voter, any individual conflict. it is what world view is going to anchor our approach? we are not going to be able to figure out who we are as democrats by keying off the republicans in just deciding when we are against it and when we are going to accommodate it. we need our own view and it needs to be based on american interests, american values and the american relationships all need to fit together, and it is very clear that the u.s. is adrift and argue that under this administration the u.s. does not have a foreign policy.

maybe an approach, but the approach is not pretty. it involves coddling dictators and involved blaming fellow world, and it is no substituteue for a policy in which the u.s. is leading. we can either lead the rest of the world or we can resent the rest of the world, we can't do both. >> president trump said if a foreign government offered him information on his open foant he would listen, so it is just like opposition research, what do you think of that a answer a? >> we are talking about foreign interference in american politics, and by the way, this isn't hypothetical. this isn't theoretical. we were attacked by a hostile foreign power 0, that decided that they could damag america, destabilize america by intervening in the election to help him win, and a they did and he did and now america is destabilized. if you believe in putting this country first, how could you ever talk about allowing a foreign, potentially a hostilefn the most sacred thing that we

have in our civic tradition in america which is our elections? >> brennan: he said he would listen before he considered reporting it. >> just -- >> brennan: is there a scenario that that is acceptable? >> no. just call the fbi. it is not hard. it is not complicated. >> brennan: when you have been asked about the president and the mueller report you said that if you are elected, that you would consider pursuing obstruction of justice charges. >> it is not up to the president to pursue charges. this is the thing. >> brennan: the justice department. >> i absolutely believe that there are plenty of reasons to think that there may have been illegal behavior and prosecutors should look at that and no one is above the law, not president, not a former president, no one. i also believe that the last place you look for guidance on how to conduct a prosecution is to the oval office. the less our law enforcement and prosecution has to do with politics the better. >> brennan: so whe when some of your competitors say that there should be obstruction of justice charges pursued yaying

you are not endorsing that? >> there should be a department of justice that can think for itself. there is tons of evidence that would point to an obstruction investigation. i am just saying it shouldn't be ordered up by the president. >> brennan: you look at buttigieg justice department potentially prosecuting the president, former president. would you ever consider a pardon? >> i don't think 0 that it is appropriate for pardon power to be used to cover formal feasance or corruption in office. right now -- >> brennan: so ford's pardoning of nixon -- >> i don't know what i would have done in the seventies, and that historical counterfactual, other than i am bothered by the possibility that public corruption went unpunished, and the idea that that could happen in the future is equally problematic. >> brennan: do you believe the trump administration when it says that those attacks on tankers that happened this week were conducted by iran? >> there is certainly concern that this is consistent with the

pattern of malignant behavior by iran, what i am also concerned about is that this appears to be part of an escalation where this administration might be leading us on a path to war that could get away from this white house very quickly. look, it is nothing new for iran to be acting in destabilizing ways in their region. we see it quite a bit. the question is, what are we going to do to make things more stable before the situation becomes uncontrollable. >> brennan: so what would you do? >> first of all, engage our allies. we are not alone, at least we shouldn't be acting alone and if we want to see stability in the middle east we should be engaging with our partners there as well as allies like our european partners who are such an important part of the iran nuclear deal. by the way another thing i would never have done is to get us out of the nuclear deal, setting up a chain reaction that destabilized the regional security framework and the politics of that area. and making it that much harder or any moderates that are still in the iranian reveal to get

anywhere because they look foolish for having staked their careers on the idea you could trust americans. we need to have a completely different approach. and when the same people who led us to the war in iraq like the national security advisor, john inhi house, itakes you wonder whether we caneally take this pys want syou accord but the u.n. wg iaea says they are, iran is ramping up their production of fuel. is that really a viable alternative? >> we are going to have to do something new. the point is that we never should have left it in the first place. >> brennan: so you want new negotiations and a new deal with iran? >> any negotiation is going to have to meet the needs of the realities of the moment. unfortunately the moment we are in is one where the united states influence in the region is diminished because of the way that we have withdrawn.

so what we are going to have to do is reengage with our partners and reengage with anybody who has an interest in stability in the region and do whatever we can to once again meet the objective of stopping iran from developing nuclear capability as which is exactly what that deal was doing, even this administration certified that that was the case. >> brennan: mr. mayor, thank you for your time. >> good to be with you 0. >> brennan: the full interview is on our website at facethenation.com. we will be right back with a look at where the 2020 field of democrats stand in the primary season. >> kin cancer with a clean feel. the best for your skin. ultra sheer®. t there's a lot to learn. grow with google is here to help you with turning ideas into action. putting your business on the map, connecting with customers, and getting the skills to use new tools.

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.. >> brennan: today we are unveiling our cbs news 2020 battleground tracker which we launched in 2016 in partnership with hugo. the first part of the 2020 battleground tracker will focus on the democratic caucus and primary contest of, up to and including super tuesday. we will have polling specific to iowa, new hampshire, and south carolina along with aggregate polling from those states, plus the other 15 where contests will be held starting on february 3rd in iowa through march the third, which is super tuesday. in that aggregate of 18 early contest states, former vice president joe biden is leading the field of candidates with 31 percent of voters support. senators elizabeth warren and bernie sanders are behind him with 17 and 16 percent respectively. our t tier at 10 percent. our next group has mayor pete

buttigieg polling at eight percent, former congressman beto o'rourke at five and senators corey booker and amy klobuchar polling at two percent. the rex tillerson of the field comes in with one percent of the vote or less. joining us to tell us more about this first batch of polling as well as a what we can look forward to this campaign season is cbs news elections and survey director anthony salvanto, anthony i know you live for this. explain what is so different about the battleground tracker. >> well, it promises to be a big election, so we have got to go big with the polling, and what that means is talking to more people than we ever have before, more than you will see 0 in most other polls. it means being in the states that really matter, the districts even that are going to matter and award a delegates but mostly, margaret it means putting this in terms that voters can relate to, understanding how they think about this race and getting beyond the horse race. so for example you mentioned as clear in all of these early states joe biden is leading when we pollsters come along a and

ask who are you going to vote for in six months? but it is early so what are voters doing? they are considering some of 0 these candidates when we ask them which candidates you choose, then we see a much closer contest we see warren under consideration, certainly sanders, harris, and to a lesser extent buttigieg, those are the folks that really define the top tier and those are the folks that voters are starting to narrow their choices already in this big field, you also see differences in what voters want in a candidate, in general. >> brennan: and a that's what i want to ask you. what are voters looking for? >> well -- >> brennan: is there a divide among democrats? >> yes, in fact there is. we asked people, which of the, what should the parties message be, would the message be if they win to return the way things were before president trump took office, obviously democrats want to defeat president trump, or should the party press for a more progressive or liberal agenda that it ever had before? and there are differences in vote choice based on how people

divide on that. the folks who go with more of that return message are much more for joe biden, but the folks who say they want a more progressive agenda, well, there you have got a mix not just of getshrownround a lot, right?orte so what we did is we turned people into political strategist as little bit and maybe they do a better job than a lot of the folks in this town. we asked them, who do you think has the best chance to beat president trump? and by and large they think joe biden does have a very food chance. the other candidates when voters tried to game out those chances placed the more at a maybe they can win than definitely win that's one of the big things that is propelling joe biden. but then we went a little further and said, okay, democrats, tell us what you think swing voters are going to want to come, come this general election in 2020. >> brennan: in other words not you but what do you think others are looking for? >> exactly. so as they game that out,

democrats say they think those swing voters are the ones they have to try to lure back to the party, might be more inclined to want a moderate and even a white male for those swing voters they think would be concerned about race and gender even it is a democrats themselves of course have the most diverse primary field in history. >> brennan: most diverse and also most crowd wed have seen. and that's one of those questions we often ask when we are talking to candidates i is that hurting you, that this field is so full, 24 candidates? so is it? i mean, why are there so many? >> well, there are so many in part because i think the rules incentivize this write is to say this year the democrats changed their rules so party leaders and elected officials don't have as much say in the initial part of the contest as they used to. they got rid of what they called super delegates. >> brennan: part of 0 this is a response to 2016? >> it is definitely a response to 2016 when a lot of democrats

felt those party leaders may have had their fingers on the scale for hillary clinton over bernie sanders, so this year,, you have got much more power at least in the first run with voters and -- and elected delegates to the convention. that's one reason, and the other is that with such a front loaded schedule, a lot of big states are going to be holding their contests early, not just the ones you mentioned, california, texas, et cetera, that brings a very diverse electorate into the mix and so a lot of candidates feel like, well, they can pick up delegates in all of those different places, maybe why not take a shot and that's one reason why you will see so many candidates on those stages come. >> brennan: anthony, i know we will be talking a lot to you in the coming months. thank you. >> thanks. >> brennan: we will have more results from our 2020 battleground tracker ahead. >>

>> brennan: it is time knew for some political analogies. same my walt search the national editor of the comp political report, ann mean is a democratic strategist and contributor on our digital network, cbsn, antjuan seawright, is a democrat strategy. and also a familiar face on cbsn. good have you all a here. >> aim my i want to start a with

you. you heard, you heard anthony lay out the battleground tracker and some of the nuggets he picked up and reminds me of the way you framed it, revolution versus restoration. >> right. >> it seems am among the democrats the fight to be had is on the revolution part of the ticket. >> right. and that's where the warren and the sanders fight is right now. they are taking about a third of the vote. but we were talking right before the panel, the person that we wonder then who will biden ultimately have to fight with for the restoration? and that's -- we haven't seen that quite yet. even pete buttigieg i think is on the sort of warren and the sanders part of that, again saying we need somebody different. we need a new way of thinking about things. we don't need to go back to the old ways. he says that a lot, right? he says let's not go back to the nineties. we need to go to the future. and a candidate who was very active in the nineties. the person who really is, i think a threat to joe biden is somebody like kamala harris, where you see that, she doesn't

pop up very much in the polling, her numbers overall are pretty low, but when you ask people about their second choice, her name comes up very high in that list. i think she is at 45 percent in your poll. which suggests that people don't necessarily, are not thinking a whole lot about her. they don't know a whole lot about her quite yet but they have her in the back of the mind, if not, hmm, if not joe biden, maybe we will take a look at her. >> brennan: maybe give her a shot. >> well she is someone that in the an interview with pete buttigieg he did also take a little bit of a gentle swipe, we will say in terms of trying to differentiate how he would respond to potentially prosecuting the existing president. are we going to see these elbows get a little sharper next week on the debate stage or still going to have these just sort of veiled swipes? >> well, politics is a contact sport, and so you just have to assume for people who want to separate themselves from their opponent they are going to do everything they can to --

>> brennan: it was pretty joanlt far. >> it's too early. we are not even in preseason yet and still in the training camp phase of this process. it is too early. of course they are going to be, it is going to be a strong attempt to define their opponents but also to swipe at the fron front runner, joe bidee have seen some of that to this point, i think it actually backfired and made him stronger to pete's point she trying to climb the ladder of getting to the space that you are talking about where he is well positioned to be an alternative to joe biden. but the candidate who has the ability to take the liking and keep on tening will ultimately be the one that i think will be able to take on donald trump and to this point the polls indicate that person is joe biden. >> brennan: and so when we see that debate stage, it is not going to be ganging up on joe biden? that -- i will not -- i do not think it would be. i think that what the voters are hungry and thirsty for is what people are for, layut your own policy agenda. we have heard that time and time again. and i think that if i was on

that stage i would strictly talk about what i was for, but i would speak to quality of life issues, because i think that is where everyone is, everybody wants to feel security, they, secure, they want to feel like they are, their america is better than their parents and grandparents generation. >> brennan: there was a lot of attention a this week to internal polling or other polling that might suggest president trump is more vulnerable, leslie, particularly in the heartland than he would allow others to believe. >> sure. >> brennan: where are these sort of soft spots for him? >> right. i think it is a really fair question when you are talking about incumbency but also would like to look at the historical context, right? we know for the most part people prefer to give presidents two terms unless something is wildly different about it, just historically you are going to do that, what is the different about trump if we compare it to my democratic candidates to presidenpresident obama at his n the presidency they are within three or four points in terms of approval rating and also just had a big defeat in the

midterms, you know, speaking of obama and the same kind of bruised egos in that sense but by the time he got to election day there was a resounding defeat, and that is part of what republicans are looking at, the president, his -- mostly flat lined when it comes to approval rating but what i am not hearing talked about is style of leadership. that is what republicans learned in the primary last go round. it is not a mano a mano on policy, it was this new approach, a new more centrist approach that wasn't particularly republican, it certainly wasn't conservative. but it was breaking the polarization -- it is a bold polarization but breaking traditional washington and a that's what you are going to need in contrast to this president if any democrat is going to get in the running. >> is biden the biggest threat to him? from our polling this is what people's impression is, that he has the best shot. >> i think for the most 0 part you could say that because he is going to appeal a lot of the rust belt builder, the working laborer, a lot of areas that trump did well in, the other

republicans have not done particularly well in, and not consistently again i will go back to the economy, if you look at the economic numbers in those states which is what we looked at in the mid terms as well, it is over 50 percent that is likely to swing toward republicans, and that is what i am going to be watching. >> but, but -- [laughter.] >> i think. >> brennan: but, but -- >> but, but, it has been pretty obviously that health chair is the number one issue of the day for democrats and republicans. and to your point, here is an interesting thing about joe biden. he is one of very few people running in the primary that can bring the many corners of our party together and take away from the trump voter who voted for him in 16 who voted for barack in 2008 and if the healthcare is the number one issue of the day, the republicans have paid the american people's it relates to the access and affordability. >> brennan: there was one really important thing though in the pushback from the trump campaign on the polling they said well in our own polling when we gave voters a choice, of a candidate who had these

certain qualities, then the numbers got much tighter. this is called an informed ballot, basically what they were saying is if you had a choice between donald trump and a socialist who would you vote for,. >> right there is a reason the term socialist is coming up a lot, not just from the trump campaign -- >> brennan: you are -- hitting perfectly because i want to play the sound bite from candidate bernie sanders. >> i do understand that i and other progressives will facehe socialism as a sure. but i should also tell you that i have faced and overcome 0 these attacks for decades and i am not the only one. >> well -- [laughter.] >> what this shows is that is not working really well right now. because when you ask democratic voters who they think is the most electable, who is the -- who 0 is a candidate that is best able to beat donald trump this is where joe biden wins in part because it is harder to attack him with those qualities.

so it is pretty clear what the trump campaign wants to do. look they are not going to win because trump's numbers are going to increase. >> obama's numbers as he ranth2p nue pto stay the same, trump's e but he has to make whoever the democratic is as unpopular as he is and there is a new nbc wall street poll the candidate who said who are you the most uncomfortable with, trump's number one at 52 percent, sanders number 2 at 41 percent. that's the danger. >> well the historical part you have more people -- trump get more support in terms of the primaries than before, he also had more people voting against him in the primary than ever before so it was the dichotomy of the two which g engoes to the point of what were they looking for with trump as far as the votes? authenticity and tired of this polished -- people in the business, you know, who do a lot of the mening and preparing candidates voters were tired of the veneer around politicians, they wanted somebody who was nontraditional in that sense who

had conviction, whether you like it or not and the funny part about the president is he said, they said oh he will be more presidential when he gets to the white house, yeah when i get there i will be more presidential and wearing a pair of shoes that are too tight you may get down the hall but the second you can you will take him off and that's what people have done and people have respected they may not like his style but respect what he has done and now he gets legitimate credit for a booming economy. that's a really difficult hinge to move against as -- >> brennan: we have got to leave it there, unfortunately. it is all the time we have. but we have more than five days to go and be sure we will bring you back to talk more. so thanks to all of you on our panel, and we will see you friday night when our digital network cbsn airs a special two hour edition of red and blue, live from columbia, south carolina, where 22 democratic presidential candidates will be appearing at one of the biggest events in the primary season, congressman jim cliburn's annual fish fry. and we will be back in a moment.

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>> brennan: that's it for us today. thank you all for watching. and we want to wish all of the fathers out there a very happy father's day, including my dad, my father-in-law and my husband, who has his very first father's day today. for "face the nation", i am margaret brennan. we will see you next week. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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