02/10/14 02/10/14 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> the goal of the nsa is the elimination of privacy worldwide, not hyperbole, literally, their goal is to make sure all human to medications that take place electronically are collected and then stored by the nsa and susceptible to being monitored and analyzed. >> while the nsa expands its

powers, and explosive new story by journalist glenn greenwald and jeremy scahill reveals details about the secret role of the nsa and he was overseas assassination program. the u.s. is reportedly now carrying out drone strikes based on cell phone tracking data without knowing whether the individual in possession of a tracfone is in fact the intended target. the article was just published in a new digital magazine launched today by first look media. glenn greenwald and jeremy scahill join us. all of that and more coming up. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the second round of syrian peace talks resumed today in geneva after a one-week pause. steering government and opposition representatives have met separately with you and envoy lakhdar brahimi as the two

sides face continued divisions on a number of issues, including the future president bashar al-assad. the meeting comes as over 600 civilians were evacuated from the besieged city of homs on sunday as part of a deal brokered in the first round of talks. news figures show an increasing number of civilians are dying in afghanistan. the united nations says civilian casualties rose 14% in 2013. >> the civilian casualties in afghanistan are increasing by 14% in 2013. documented 8615 injured inand 5656 2013, marking the 7% increase in

a 17% increase in injuries compared to 2012. >> last year was the worst for afghan women and children since 2009, with casualties rising a combined 35%. two owners of the bangladesh garment factory where 112 workers died in the 2012 fire have turned themselves in. six wanted ing connection with the worst factory fire in bangladesh's history. many of the victims die between -- because tazreen factory managers ordered workers back to their posts even as an alarm rang and smoke rose. the two owners face up to life in prison. u.s. intelligence officials are claiming edward snowden stole internal nsa documents by using cheap and widely available software that still went mostly undetected. "the new york times," investigators looking into the case a snowden deployed a simple web crawler that

automatically downloaded some 1.7 million files. in a statement, snowden responded -- in the latest of snowden's disclosures, new information has emerged on the nsa's secret role in u.s. military and cia assassinations overseas. complexis using analysis of electronic surveillance, rather than human intelligence, as the primary method to locate targets for lethal drone strikes. the nsa identifies targets based on controversial metadata analysis and cell phone tracking technologies, and unreliable tactic that has resulted in the deaths of innocent or unidentified people. the disclosures made in the first article by journalists jeremy scahill and glenn greenwald for their new

journalism venture, first look media. particularly the intercept, which launched today. we will speak with them after the headlines. tens of thousands of people marched in raleigh, north carolina on saturday to protest the far right policies of the state's republican government. the moral march was an outgrowth of last years moral monday's protest, 13 weeks of actions against what critics call a republican assault on poor people, the unemployed, voting rights, education, the environment, health care, and women's rights. protest organizer reverend william barber, the head of the naacp and north carolina, says republican policies have forced marginalized communities to stand together. >> we have been hauled together to fight against a dangerous agenda of extremist laws by the ultraconservative right-wing that is choosing the low road.

policies that are constitutionally inconsistent, morally indefensible, and economically insane. it is mighty low to cut medicaid for more than 500,000 people in the state of 1.7 million poor people and knowing 2800 will die. taxes onbelow to raise in order to people cut taxes for 23 of the wealthiest families. arrested in people the moral monday's protest last year, estimates a saturday turnout reached as high as 100,000 people. reverend barber ended his remarks to the tribute to the diversity of groups coming together to march as one. >> we are black, we are white, we are latino, we are native american, we are democrat, we

are republican, we are independent, we are people of faith, we are people not of faith. they still believe in a moral universe. we are people, natives, immigrants, business leaders and workers and unemployed. we are doctors and the uninsured. we are gay, straight, students, parents, retirees. we are north carolina! [applause] we are going nowhere! >> protesters have rallied at the charlotte headquarters at duke energy, the company behind one of the worst coal ash spills in u.s. history. up to 82 thousand tons of coal ash and 27 million gallons of contaminated water spilled into north carolina's dan river earlier this month after a pipe burst underneath a waste bond. the river has turned gray for miles, and environmentalist say they have found arsenic levels 35 times higher than maximum set by federal regulators. the group charlotte

environmental action is calling on duke energy to stop storing coal ash near lakes and rivers sides and instead bury it in landfills. on friday, duke energy apologize for the spill and pledged to clean up its toxic waste. the u.s. justice department is expanding protections for same-sex couples in every program with federal jurisdiction. under the new policies, married same-sex partners will have expanded rights in areas from courthouses to prisons to pensions. these include the right to avoid testimony that would incriminate a spouse, conjugal visits and prisons, and survivors benefits for spouses. attorney general eric holder announced the change in a speech on saturday night. >> this means in every courthouse, in every proceeding, and in every place where a member of the department of justice stance on behalf of the united states, they will strive

to ensure that same-sex marriages receive the same privileges, the same protections, in the same rights as opposite sex marriages under federal law. administration has eased immigration rules for people fleeing war-torn countries. the move would exempt refugees from antiterrorism provisions if they provided only minor material support to militants not officially designated as terrorist by the u.s. government. the policy change was announced in response to syria's as a refugee flight, with over two point 3 million displaced. republicans are denouncing the measure as executive overreach. you lead disclose records show most u.s. service members accused of sexual crimes in japan are either receiving light punishments or none at all. the naval criminal intelligence service as a 473 marines and sailors accused of sex crimes, less than half were published test 68 which a prison. the data also shows a growing

number of victims are holding cooperation with investigators as cases proceed. a livestock company has recalled 8.7 million pounds of beef parts over the use of "diseased and unsound animals" and the lack of proper inspection. the company says the meat was shipped to california, florida, illinois, and texas in the first week of january. three activists have been found not guilty on the most serious charges concerning an alleged terror plot against chicago's 2012 nato summit. brian jacob church, print writerly, and jerry chase known as the nato 3 were arrested after undercover police helped them make molotov cocktails. they faced up to 175 years in prison under a post-9/11 anti-terrorism law invoked for the first time in her case. on friday, a jury rejected the charges of providing material support for terrorism and

conspiracy to commit terrorism. the three were instead convicted of misdemeanor mob action and felony possession of an incendiary device. supporters say police and trapped the nato 3 at prosecutors brought excessive charges to justify the summit high-security costs. activists arrested for protesting u.s. drone warfare at a new york air base in 2012 have been found guilty of disorderly conduct, but not guilty of trespassing. the 17 were detained after creating a blockade outside the hancock field air national guard base, holding signs and pictures of children killed by u.s. drone attacks overseas. the base is used to pilot oversees u.s. drones remotely. on friday, the activist were sentenced to the maximum 15 days behind bars, which the judge called a message to encourage the demonstrators to stop their protests.

former new york times executive editor and current op-ed columnist bill keller is leaving the newspaper to launch a onprofit news site focused criminal justice system. he will run the marshall project founded by wall street veteran and former journalist neil barsky. he says the fight will serve as -- site will serve as a wake-up call to a public that has gotten numb to the criminal justice system. a college football star and talk nfl prospect has come out as gay. michael sam, a defensive lineman for the university of missouri, when public on sunday in an interview with "the new york times." >> i am a football player and i am gay. is this a huge deal? i understand it is, but my purpose and focus right now is playing football. i don't think i should be defined as michael sam the gay athlete, the gay athlete, the good football player. i want to be michael sam, a great person and have great character.

maybe the first, but i will be the last. i think only good things will come from this. ask michael sam was a first-team all-american and the southeastern province's defensive player for the university of missouri. he is expected to be selected in the early rounds of maize nfl draft -- may's nfl draft. those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we turn now to a breaking news story about the national security agency and its secret role helping the military and cia carry out assassinations overseas. according to journalists jeremy scahill and glenn greenwald, the nsa is using conflict analysis of electronic surveillance, rather than human intelligence, as the primary method to locate targets for lethal drone strikes in yemen, somalia, afghanistan, and elsewhere. a former drone operator for j sock, the military's joint

special operations command, said the nsa identifies targets based on controversial metadata analysis and cell phone tracking technologies. but it has proven to be an unreliable tactic that has resulted in the deaths of innocent or unidentified people. the u.s. has reportedly carried out strikes without knowing whether the individual in possession of a track cell phone or sim card is in fact the intended target of the strike. the former drone operator was a source in the story and said -- jeremy scahill and glenn greenwald have also revealed the nsa has equipped drones another aircraft with devices known as virtual base tower transceivers. these devices create in effect a fake cell phone tower that can force a target persons device to lock onto the nsa's receiver without her knowledge. jeremy scahill and glenn

greenwald's article appears in the new online publication called the intercept copublished by first look media, the newly formed media venture started by ebay founder pierrre omidyar. they cofounded the intercept the film maker laura poitras. glenn greenwald first broke the story about edward snowden and was previously a columnist at "the guardian." he is joining us via video stream from his home in brazil. germany scahill is producer and writer of the documentary film" ."rty wars he is also author of the book by the same name. he joins us from los angeles. we welcome you both to democracy now! jeremy, lay out the significance of this explosive story. ofwe're living in the era pre-crime or president obama is continuing many of the same policies of his predecessor george bush and vice president

dick cheney. there's this incredible reliance on technology to kill people who the united states thinks may one day pose some sort of a threat of committing an act of terrorism or impacting u.s. interests. the u.s. wants to shy away from having its own personnel on the ground in countries like yemen or pakistan or somalia, eventually afghanistan, and so what has happened is there's this incredible reliance on the use of remotely piloted aircraft, i.e. drones. what we discovered in talking to sources, including this new source that worked with both the jsoc and national security agency, is the nsa is providing satellite technology and communications intercept technology to the u.s. military special operations forces and the cia that essentially mimics the activities of a cell phone tower and forces individual sim cards or handsets -- there are

two separate devices. the sim card and your mobile phone that can be tracked and also the device itself can be tracked. they force the sim card or handset of individuals their tracking onto the cell phone networks. the people don't know their phones are being forced onto this tower, that is literally put on the bottom of a drone and acts as a virtual transceiver. they're able to triangulate where this individual is, they can locate or track them to within about 30 feet or so of their location. what we understand as under the current guidelines issued by the white house, president obama gives a 60-day authorization to the cia or u.s. military to hunt down and kill these individuals who they have tracked with these sim card tracking technologies or handset tracking technologies, and they only have to have two sources of intelligence to indicate this is

the individual they're looking for. those two sources can be a signals intelligence, which is what i was describing, and it can also be imagery of intelligence and the meaning just a satellite image of an individual they think to be the suspected terrorists. they do not require an actual human confirmation that the individual's sim card or handset their tracking is the person they believe is a potential terrorist. thiswe understand is that is essentially death by metadata where they think were they hope the phone they're blowing up is in the possession of a person have identified as a potential terrorist. in the end, they don't really know. that is where the real danger with this program lies. the reason our source came forward to talk about it is because he was a part of this program and was a participant in operations where he knew the identity of one individual that

was being targeted, but other people were killed alongside that person. he also said he just felt incredibly uncomfortable with the idea that there killing people's phones and the effort to kill them and they don't actually know who the people are that are holding the phones. >> and the source then is, in addition to the documents that edward snowden released? >> correct. when we first started talking with this source, he was describing the architecture of this program where the nsa is working closely with the cia and with the joint special operations command, and then we were able to validate what he was saying through the documents that were previously provided by the nsa whistleblower edward snowden. amy, the platform the cia is using in yemen and other countries is known as shenanigans. the nsa uses a lot of irish terminology, blarney stone

another limerick operations. this one is called shenanigans. the platform used our the u.s. military is called gmesh. theyis technology where can not only triangulate the position of sim cards and cell phones, but the nsa also put the device on the drones that are flying in various countries around the world known as air handler. the air handler devices literally suck up the data around the world. it is sort of a secondary mission. in plain terms, every time a drum goes out in an effort to track someone or kill someone, the nsa has put a device on that that does not actually under -- is not actually under the control of the cia or military, but just sucking up data for the nsa. as several people have told us, the nsa once all the data. any want to suck it up on industrial scale. they're piggybacking on these targeted killing missions.

>> i want to turn to president obama who was talking about drone strikes during that first major counterterrorism address of a second term. it was may 20 3, 2013. >> before any strike is taken, there must be near certainty that no civilians will be killed or injured. canhighest standard we sell. yes, the conflict with al qaeda, like all armed conflicts, invites tragedy. but by narrowly targeting our action against those who want to kill us and not the people they hide among, we are choosing the course of action least likely to result in the loss of innocent life. >> jeremy scahill, respond. >> we saw very recently the u.s. carried out a drone strike that killed many members of a wedding party in yemen. the question should be asked, how is it those individuals were selected on that day for that

strike? what the president is saying is very misleading, according to people who actually work on this program. in fact, when we asked the white house for comment, we went to the national security council spokesperson caitlin hayden and ask directly, is it true you're ordering strikes were you don't actually have any human intelligence? the white house refused to directly answer that. they just said, well, we don't select targets based on only one source of intelligence. toldew that already and them so. the point is, they don't actually have a requirement to confirm the identity of the individuals they are targeting, and that is one of the reasons why we're seeing so many innocent people being killed in these strikes. it effectively amounts to pre-crime where an acceptable level of civilian deaths as any civilians who die in the pursuit of a limited number of so-called bad guys. >> did the spokesperson also say, confirming human intelligence was used, tried afterwards but not before?

>> i'm not sure they are aware of the kind of twisted irony of the statement they issued u.s. because on the one hand, they're refusing to acknowledge they don't actually need to confirm the identity of people who their china target for death. on the other hand, they say, oh, when we tell someone, we do actually confirm whether or not civilians were killed by using human intelligence. it basically is the standard is, we can kill you if we don't know your identity but once we kill you, we want to figure out who we killed. >> in yemen, any human intelligence on the ground? >> the u.s. has a limited presence. my understanding is there are small teams of u.s. special operations forces, navy seals and others, scattered in various remote locations around yemen. the u.s. has long had a counterterrorism presence inside the yemeni capital. the cia also has its own personnel. i want to underscore something.

inside yemen, the u.s. has largely outsourced its human intelligence to the saudi government. the saudi's have been playing their own dirty games, their own dirty wars inside yemen. many times the saudi's will feed intelligence to the u.s. that is intended to benefit the regime in saudi arabia and not necessarily the stated aim of u.s. counterterrorism program. they rely on a tour is the corrupt units within the yemeni -- they rely on the tour is the correct units within the yemeni military. often times they'll use the u.s. aid to target yemeni dissidents or to be used in defense of various factions within the many state. the short answer is, yes, there's a limited u.s. military human intelligence presence on the ground, but most of it, the overwhelming majority, is outsourced to the majority is lee -- notoriously corrupt saudi regime inside yemen.

>> when we come back after a minute, we will continue with jeremy scahill as well as glenn greenwald. they have just co-author their first piece for their new online publication called the intercept. we will link to it at democracynow.org. back in a moment. ♪ [music break]

recorded in 1964 singing "what did you learn in school today?" this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are broadcasting our exclusive first interview with jeremy scahill and glenn greenwald upon the publication just hours ago of their new piece the nsa's secret role in

the u.s. assassination program. the article appears at the intercept.org, new digital magazine launched today by first look media. they cofounded the intercept with filmmaker laura poitras. glenn greenwald is with us from his home in brazil. we will talk about whether he plans to come into the united states. jeremy scahill joins us from los angeles. his film has been nominated for an academy award. about the you talk legality of publishing this information, the way it has been challenged by the administration. in your piece, you have kaitlyn hayden the spokesperson for the national security agency, saying the type of operational detail that in our view should not be published, she said. referring to the questions that

you both were asking her. you're a former constitutional lawyer. >> the position of the u.s. government is that it is illegal to publish any kind of classified information that you're not authorized to receive, and it is illegal in their view for the government employee or contractor to leak it without authorization, but their view is is actually legal even if you're a to publish it. they believe that is especially the case of the information pertains to what they call signals intelligence. if you look at the espionage act relevantnd other statutes, it does in the say it is illegal in the united states to publish the kind of information. the problem for that view is there's a superseding law called the constitution, the first amendment to which guarantees there shall be a free press and that congress and no other part of the government has the right

to interfere with that. one of the reasons why the government has been so reluctant about prosecuting journalists who are publishing classified information, at least up until now, it's because they are afraid that courts will say that application of the statute or the statutes i described to journalist is unconstitutional in violation of the first amendment and they want to keep that weapon to be able to threaten or bully or intimidate journalists out of doing the kind of reporting that they're doing. every media lawyer will tell you before you publish top secret information, it is a good practice for legal protection to ask the government if they want to tell you anything that they think you should know. they always say, if you publish it it will harm national security. but if you are a minimally decent journalist, that is not good enough. you need specific information about what innocent people will be harmed if you publish. providetually don't that information. they did not in this case. it was an easy call to make as

journalists in telling the american people about the methods their government are using that result in the deaths of innocent people in ways that are usually -- easily preventable. been publishinge pieces all over the world since you broke the story of edward snowden with the documents that he has released, downloading 1.7 million documents. nsa'sakes this story, the secret role in the assassination program, different? >> most of the stories we published thus far have been about the way in which the nsa collects signal intelligence, tries to intercept electronic communications of hundreds of millions, probably billions, people around the world. that is what the u.s. government has told the american people is the role of the nsa, to listen into the communications of those were threatening the u.s. in

some manner. this story has little to do with those prior stories in the sense this is not a case of the nsa trying to collect people's communications to find who is plotting with whom or what kinds in.lots they are engaged this is the nsa using a form of signal intelligence to, first, determine who should be targeted for assassination based on .nalysis of their metadata secondly, trying to help the cia oc find those individuals who have been put on a list of basically assassination, but not by finding where they are but where their telephone is. obviously, unreliable way of trying to kill people that is certain to result in the deaths of innocent people. the source became fortis said exactly that is what is happening. it is incredibly expanded role

we are revealing that the nsa engages in far beyond what traditionally the american people are told about why this agency exist. >> in addition to the jsoc operator's account, you quote in the first piece for the intercept.org brandon bryant. talk about the significance of his experience and who he is. >> first, just something to follow up on what he said, the teams from the nsa involved with this program are called geolocation cells and their motto is, we track 'em, you whack 'em. other question we were talking about about the relevance for people in the united states, what we have seen, particularly since 9/11 but really throughout u.s. history, is the kind of tech knowledge in the kind of operations, the sorts of tactics u.s. uses on citizens of other

nations around the world its military operations or intelligence operations and upcoming home to the u.s. as well. we believe what we're doing here is public service journalism and that the american people have a right to know what kind of technology their government is developing that could potentially be used on them. but also when innocent people are killed in these operations, it impacts american national security as well and ultimately undermines our safety because we are creating more new enemies than we are killing terrorists at this point in what has been called the so-called war on terror. brandon bryant is a very important figure right now in this discussion. he spent years as what he called a stick monkey for the u.s. air force. he was a drone sensor operator and was part of the -- over 1500 kill operations with his unit around the world when he worked on the drone program. he also was working with the joint special operations command

in the operation to target an american citizen and were all awlaki who ended up becoming famous for his sermon denouncing u.s. around the world and calling for jihad against the united states. he was killed in september 2011. brandon bryant had worked on that operation until the spring of 2011 when cia took over and took the lead in that. in fact, one of the documents cite in our pews, reveals the nsa actually played a role in the killing of anwar awlai and also revealed in this document that it was a joint operation by the u.s. military and the cia. that is a new revelation on this case and could have an impact on the legal case that the family

awlaki and another family have filed against the obama administration. it shows the man knowledge being there were all in ash acknowledge they were all involved in the operation. for brandon bryant, it was the ki and thenanwar awla his son two weeks later that spurred him to speak out. he does. he feels he became an enemy of the american people are participating in those operations because he denied due process to an american that should have had a right to a trial before being sentenced to death by drugs. >> you are saying brandon bryant said that? >> i don't have it in front of me, but you can read his own words and his beast -- in the peas were he said, i swore an oath to the constitution to uphold it and its value and then i violated that i participating

in the effort to kill this american citizen who, albeit a very bad guy, deserved his day in court rather than just be sentenced to death. >> we interviewed brandon bryant in october. he described his first strike which took place in afghanistan and 27 -- 2007 while sitting in a trailer in an air force base in nevada. >> we got the information to fire on these guys and the way they reacted really made me doubt their involvement because the guys over there, the locals over there have to protect themselves from the taliban and u.s.as much as we do, as military personnel. so i think they were probably in the wrong place at the wrong -- i have beeny

accused of using poetic imagery to describe it, but i watched this guy bleed out, the guy in the back. his right leg above the knee was severed in the strike. he bled out through his for femoral artery. >> it that detailed on your computer screen? >> yes, pixelated, but you could -- what he was doing. you could see the crater from the hellfire missile and you could see probably the body pieces that were around this guy. >> and the other two that were in the strike? >> they were completely destroyed. >> blown apart. >> you watched this guy bleed

out for how long? >> i don't know, he could have bled out really fast. it was cold outside, wintertime. it seemed like forever to me. drone can stay in the air for like 18 to 32 hours, so they just had us watch and do damage assessment to see if anyone would come and pick up the body parts or anything who really care for these people. we watched long enough that the body cooled on the ground and they call this off target. was brandon bryant, the former drone sensor operator with u.s. air force who is quoted in this first article i jeremy scahill and glenn greenwald for the new publication the intercept.org. jeremy, just to follow-up, that is the description of what happened in afghanistan. and the quote you're referring to on the killing of al-awlaki,

this remarkable quote a brandon bryant, saying i was a drone operator for six years, active duty for six years and u.s. air force, party to the violations of constitutional rights of an american citizen who should have been tried under a jury and because i violated that constitutional right, i became an enemy of the american people ar." >> i know one thing that glenn and i have experienced in recent months is since edward snowden made this decision that he was going to forever alter his life by going to hong kong and meeting with glenn and laura and taking the position he has taken, he is inspiring other people within these apparatuses to speak out. courage is indeed contagious. i think we're going to hear more and more people from within the national security apparatus

saying, i believe i am part of something that is violating our own constitution and is violating my own morals and ethics. i think we will see more and more people speaking out. that is why on our site we have created a secure drop center where people can give us tips anonymously and we will protect their identities and we encourage people to come forward and speak about their experiences within what is called the national security apparatus. >> can i say one thing? as far as an incredibly moving clip we just listen to, i want to make two quick points about the significance of what we published this morning. there are a lot of debates about journalists, but i think everyone should agree that journalism is supposed to be about informing the public of the truth especially debunking official lies. a big part of our story and why we wrote it and published it was because your president obama running around saying we only

kill or target people when there is a near certainty there won't the civilian deaths. we know that to be completely false because the methods we reported on have almost -- i would not say near certainty, but a high likelihood of killing the wrong people, killing innocent people. the other thing is, in july, the nsa in order to propagandize the public, went to "the washington post" to boast about the role to play the killing program and talked about some of these methods. it was a propaganda piece that "the washington post" printed. not a word of the unreliability of these methods or the nsa role in targeting and killing innocent people. part of what we did was to come forward as an antidote to that false propaganda from the president and "the washington post" and correct the record and make it complete. that is a big part of what we see as the new purpose -- what we see as the purpose of our new media outlet.

we want to provide a corrective to the type of "journalism" the "post" practiced here. no critical analyses and therefore misleading the public about what it is that was taking place. >> when we come back from break, i want to ask about the intercept and first look media, what your plans are. together with laura poitras you just launched the intercept. and also talk about the second piece that has been launched on the intercept, the series of photographs, the new photos the nsa and other top intelligence agencies revealed for the first time. we are speaking with jeremy scahill and glenn greenwald in their first broadcast tv interview together upon the eintercept.org. we will have a link to the first article at democracynow.org.

stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. our guests for their first exclusive interview upon the cept.org, theinter jeremy scahill and glenn greenwald. it is a new digital magazine launched today by first look media.

i want to first get a comment from glenn greenwald on a piece that has just come out from associated press. uss but possibly targeted for drone attack. a contingency writer. does the first paragraph says an american citizen who is a member of al qaeda is actively planning attacks against american overseas were americans overseas coming us officials say, and the obama administration is wrestling with whether to kill him with a drone strike and how to do so legally under its new stricter targeting policy issued last year. your comment? >> i haven't seen the article yet, but the first paragraph should be shocking to every american and yet at this point, i think are probably kind of accustomed to it despite how radical it is because of how long-standing it has been accepted. the very idea that the u.s. government suspects an american citizen, not of having already

engaged in crimes but of landing said, a -- like you pre-crime framework for the u.s. government tries to guess at who will engage in crimes in the future and then treat them as a criminal. not just treat them as a criminal, but declare them guilty in secret proceedings, not involving any court, but by the decree of the president of the united states -- literally, declare him guilty and impose the death penalty and then go out and carry out the execution -- just like they did with anwar al-awlaki and samir khan. no american should accept the idea of the president of the united states has the power to order american citizens killed, not on the battlefield or anywhere else that is in a war zone, but simply on the suspicion that they intend to engage in future criminal behavior. to describe that power is to

describe the most extremist amount of control government you can get. >> jeremy scahill, if you would like to expand on it. that withheld the name of the country where the suspected terrorist is believed to be because official said releasing information could interrupt the case. they're divided on whether the man is dangerous enough to kill them without trying him. and the potential international fallout of section rate -- section operation. a number of officials of officials at the pentagon did ultimately decide to recommend legal action. pieceaven't seen this yet, but there are a number of americans who we already understand have been cleared at some point over the past several years for being hit and is targeted strikes. i understand one of them is a guy named adam who is basically

a propagandist for al qaeda who is from the united states, u.s. citizen, and will occasionally be running his mouth off on videos around the world. heave no knowledge of what may or may not be involved with, but we do know the united states doesn't have a problem with killing american citizens without presenting any evidence against them. i think that is the real issue here. the current guidelines that the white house is using still permit the killing of americans and non-americans on a regular basis around the world using these drones. i think to an extent, the white house and started to believe its own propaganda about how precise these strikes actually are, in part because when they get a cell phone or blowup someone's cell phone, they're told, we have the target. the jargon of the operators who do these missions, when you get the phone itself it is called the jackpot. when you confirm you have actually killed the target, it

is called a touchdown. how often are these jack lots -- jackpots sent to the u.s. government as a touchdown? it is chillingly live in an era where man who won the nobel peace prize and is a constitutional lawyer by training is streamlining and for makingmechanism assassination, including of u.s. citizens, a normal part of what is called our national security policy. >> let's talk about the intercept. website youhis new have launched, what you're doing with the intercept, what your plans are. >> sure. only four months or so ago we first had conversations with pierrre omidyar, the publisher of the site first look media about working together. we were off in one corner planning our media site and he was off in the corner planning

his and we decided we could work together effectively. we got launched in a short period of time relatively speaking in part because we feel it was a sears obligation to get up and running so we can report on the stories like the one we reported on today and the rest of the stories that come out of the archive of documents set up our source edward snowden provided to us and other sources we are developing. we intended to start with a fairly limited function, although, one that is profoundly important, which is to give a place were we can aggressively report on these nsa documents. there are many, many or big stories left report. we are thrilled to work with each other. expand start slowly and the range of topics that we cover. we're really about not doing things like helping me united states government continue its targeting of u.s. citizens for death like the ap did with

withholding information that being adversarial to the government and telling the public what it ought to know and targeting the most powerful are part of political factions with accountability journalism. we are thrilled we get to work together, that we have a new media outlet devoted to these principles, that we have the resources to protect our sources and enable the journalist that work with us to do the kind of journalism we think is so sorely lacking. >> can i add to that? what we have seen also over the past month is a very serious escalation in the threats coming from the obama administration and from capitol hill against journalists. there is this attempt on the part of the director of national intelligence james clapper to imply the journalists who are reporting on the snowden documents are a compasses to a crime -- my understanding from a confidential source in the intelligence community is that james clapper two weeks before

he publicly used that term of accomplice, that he also said in a top-secret classified briefing within the intelligence community sort of floating it. mike rogers also has just been on a rampage against journalists , also against snowden, making totally unfounded allegations somehow aden thing russian agent or cooperating with russian agents. so the timing of this site and why we felt it was so urgent to start reporting on these stories right now is to push back against this climate of fear and to say we as independent journalist are not going to back down in the face of government threats. that in fact, this is when it is most important to stand up for a truly free and independent press is when those in power start to try to push their fist down upon you. >> i went to play a recent exchange between house intelligence committee chair mike rogers and fbi director james komi. >> there have been discussions

about the selling of access to this material to both newspaper outlets and other places. to the best of your knowledge, is fencing stolen material, is that a crime? >> yes, it is. >> with selling the access of classified material stolen from the united states government, would that be a crime? >> it would be. it is an issue that can be complicated, but in general, fencing reselling stolen property is a crime. >> if i am a newspaper for fill-in the blank and i sell stolen material, is that legal because i'm a newspaper reporter? >> if you are a newspaper reporter and hocking jewelry, it is still a crime. >> if i'm hocking still material that i'm not legally in possession of, is that not a crime? >> that is a harder crime because it involves a newsgathering function. the good efforts to mimic applications.

-- it could have first amendment applications. , you were notwald named specifically during the hearing, but reports say rogers called usc and said "for personal gain, he summoned his access to information, that's how they're turning it. a thief selling stolen material is a thief." your response? >> first of all, mike rogers is a liar. he is outright lying when he says i or any other journalist working on this case sold documents or fenced documents. the one thing missing from his accusations is any evidence because none exists. i defy him to present any. that is what mike rogers does. he just lies. i think the more important point than the fact that mike rogers

is a pathological liar is the fact that this is part of a broader campaign on the part of the obama administration, as jeremy said, to try and either threaten journalists that they will be criminalized or outright criminalize them by prosecuting we're the journalism that doing. it comes in the context of this campaign because accomplices by the top national security official keith ellickson enter two months ago in a speech, raise the idea of selling documents will we did our first reporting canada with the cbc, the right-wing harper govern ment attack just as having sold information. the obama administration has been worse on press freedoms than any president since president nixon. and it's actually approaching thing worse. the most recent escalation i think is showing they're not content just to go after the gathering process and our sources, but to threaten us with

criminality, with prosecution. if they think it will deter us in any way, they are sorely mistaken, that it is serious when the top level of u.s. government starts accusing you of criminality for the journalism you're engaged in. >> you're speaking to us from your home in brazil. you are an american citizen. you have not come back to the u.s. since the release of the .ocuments do you plan to come here? are you concerned about being arrested? >> i do plan to come there. we have been advised by numerous people would not be a good idea to the risk of something happening is certainly more than trivial. u.s. government is also refusing to give us any indication about their intentions, despite being asked many times by our lawyers. the recent escalation of rhetoric and accusations obviously makes the concern more

acute. but just on principle, as an american citizen, i refuse to be kept out of my own country for the crime of doing journalism. i absolutely will come back. i will pick the time to do it when i feel i understand the risks and as -- am is protected as i can be. >> if you can, and quickly on the other piece that has launched at theintercept.org, the new photos that revealed for trevor paglen by who did the photography. >> he is amazing. had another project where he was looking at patches of all sorts of covert signals intelligence and these photos really are provided as a stunning public service and their the freshest images we

of this architecture secret organizations and in some cases, the only images really available to the public. we are excited that he worked with us on that we can publish the money -- on theintercept.org . >> we are showing those images and you can find them on democracynow.org as well. the final quote of your piece that is launched today a president obama? become --nt obama has he told his aides he had become remarkably effective at killing people and said he did not see that one coming. it's true. he has become good at killing people, just who are the people they are killing? >> the exact quote a president obama quoted by the huffington post sang "turns out i'm really good at killing people, didn't know it was going to be a strong suit of mine." jeremy scahill and glenn greenwald, congratulations of the launch of theintercept.org.

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