and my cousin athlete's foot. a man named mr. butt having to enforce pakistan's new censorship of that word? i can't even make it the "best new thing in the world" today. good-bye. up with chris hayes starts right now. good morning from new york. i'm chris hayes. four days before its deadline, the congressional super committee on reducing america's debt remains at an impasse. democrats openly ridiculed the latest proposals from republicans. "the new york times" reports that unreleased census figures show that 100 million americans, 1 in 3 of us, live below or only just above the poverty line. right now, i am joined by my panel, james polis, columnist for the daley color.com who has

written for the american conservative. michelle goldberg, senior writer for "the daily beast." laura flanders, co-author and editor of at the tea party and ray lewis, retired philadelphia police captain arrested at "occupy wall street" on the national day of action on thursday. for those tuning in for the one and only melissa harris-perry, she will be joining us in a bit. if the first two months of occupywall street was gains, they struck back. on tuesday, the mayor ordered police to clear the occupiers out of zuccotti park in an early morning raid. police destroyed the occupiers personal belongings, including 5500 or so books in the people's library on site. one city councilman, rodriguez, was thrown to the ground, beaten and arrested at the scene. mayor blook berg and police made sure it was done away from the eyes of the press supposedly for

their own safety according to the city. on thursday, protesters organized a day of action to mark the two-month anniversary of the movement. 1,000 protesters gathered near the new york stock exchange in an almost entirely nonviolent demonstration. there were a few exceptions. thursday night, thousands marched over the brooklyn bridge, a peaceful protest. i was there. we will talk more about that later. also, thursday, protests and arrests in los angeles, st. louis, portland, oregon, and other cities around the country. month are than 300 arrested thursday, 200 in new york city alone. captain lewis, you were arrested and charged with disorderly conduct including disrupting traffic and refusing to move on. there was an image of you being arrested in your dress blues down in front of the new york stoke exchange that was -- went kind of viral. there is some footage of you

being arrested. you are a retired police captain. you served in philadelphia. why did you come down to "occupy wall street" on thursday? >> i didn't come down on thursday. i actually came down on monday. i came down to assist the movement. i have been retired for a year in a very secluded life. i have moved up to new york in the catskill mountains. you can't see nobody. nobody can see me. it was a walldon type of lifestyle which i wanted. i used the internet for my only source of information. not the tv, not the newspapers. i saw this action being taken by these protesters. the conditions they were living in and the fact that they were not doing this for themselves. they were doing this for all people suffering injustice. that just conviction that they had for social justice just

inspired me. i couldn't do anything else but come down. i would have been down sooner but i was working on a very important project in upstate new york against the gas companies. the term is fracking. >> you are involved in fracking activist? >> yes. >> so you came down this week. would you tell me about the arrest itself? i guess the question i am dying to know is what your interactions with the nypd was like. presumably, it was a little different if i had been down there arrested or something else. obviously, you were dressed like this. what was that interaction like? >> it was exemplary of professional conduct. with me and every protester that i witnessed. >> interesting. >> they had an extremely tough job. they are human beings too. there is the fight or flight reaction. police cannot have the flight reaction. so they have to have the fight.

subsequently, this can get out of hand. that's why you have the white shirts, the white shirts are the ones who are supervising. what i saw down there was the white shirts doing fighting. therefore, who is supervising? that is when you have anarchy. the problem -- i also want to make clear to everyone in the new york police department that my statements, video, was edited. i knew that was going to happen. the one step i could take to minimize that from happening was to refuse any interviews with fox news and a fox representatives came up to me. i saw the fox. i said, you stay away from me. you are a big part of the problem. >> i'm a little wordy. >> you are not wordy.

you are perfect. this is fascinating stuff. all of us have been -- i'll speak for myself. i have been watching this upfold. in the beginning, i have been surprised by some of the mr. is overreaction and people on the internet said you are naive to be surprised by police overreaction. there is part of me that feels like "a" i'm worried about confrontations with police becoming the sign post for the movement as opposed to the content of the 99% message. at the same time, i have been really upset by the various police overreactions we have seen across the country. it seems consistent. you have seen time and time again nonthreatening, nonviolent, peaceful protesters being the subject of force. batons, pepper spray. i want to play this video making the rounds this morning. this is students at uc california davis, sitting down completely pie completely peacefully, laengink arms, protesting tuition hikes.

this is what happens to them. the person that e-mailed that to me this morning said it looked like someone spraying cockroaches. this was pepper spray. what is your reaction when you see a video like that? >> my reaction is that corporate america is using their own police department as hired thugs. that's a disgrace. i also want to explain. i have to get a few things in here on my own. >> please. >> i was holding a sign that said, nypd, do not be wall street mercenaries. it was misinterpreted. what i found out. they will never see that sign again for this reason. i was trying to convey the message, do not become wall

street mercenaries. just that one word, do not be instead of become was that i was alluding to the fact that they already are mercenaries. i didn't realize that until i was told. >> have you gotten a lot of backlash to that? >> no, but i got one person that told me that. then, a light bulb went on in my head. he is absolutely right. i was inferring they are mercenaries now. that is not the case. i apologize to every nypd officer out there if you interpreted it the wrong way. >> you seem to have this conflicted stance about what is happening between the protesters and the police. i understand that given your unique personality. you are both a protester and a retired police officer. i don't think there are a whole lot of people in that part of the ven diagram as of yet. in wisconsin, when we saw when there was the move to destroy collective bargaining by

governor scott walker, we saw police standing in solidarity with protesters. it was a very powerful image. i don't think we are seeing a lot of that so far. i want you to go back to the psychology of fight or flight. describe to me what is in your head as a police officer as you stand there facing people linked arms or sort of confronting you in a nonviolent way. what is the psychology of that moment like? >> you are being confronted often times in a nonviolent way. sometimes there is more violence coming from the demonstrators than you see. there is a tremendous amount of hostility being thrown your way, disparaging remarks against your mother, your parents, and everything like that, being spit upon. you have to stand there and take a lot of that. we are all human. cops are just as human as everybody else. they are going, some of them are going to lose their temper. everybody has lost their temper. that is the reason you have to have supervision. that's why the white shirts

cannot get involved in fighting because then it is anarchy. there is nobody supervising. >> their role is to be the check when you lose your cool? >> exactly. >> you have said so many important things and thank you so much for being here. first, i want to remind you and all of us where you started. you were drawn to this movement because of the values it was expressing? >> right. >> i think what's been so critical about this week is that we have had an effort to shift the profile of what this movement is about. you can change any picture. maybe you can't change the occupy movement but you can certainly change the picture by pouring enormous amounts of cops into every television frame. what's motivating people to come is not that it is a police versus the people conflict. it is because of the values that are being represented here which i think were expressed at the 99% for the 100%. the other thing that you talked about that i think is just a

little fact is that with this question of mercenaries, there was some important reporting over the last few weeks about how in fact i believe pat martin has wrote about it for counter punch. you have got a giuliani program, called plan detail. wall street can hire nypd. don't pay the benefits or the p pensions. you are completely right your words were vulnerable to editing. we saw that this week. >> you said earlier you don't want this to become a police versus protesters story. statement, one of the things that's been so interesting is that the police have actually played such an important cat lit tick rule since day one. a lot of people dismissed it. then, there was that horrible image of a police officer pepper spraying this woman in the face.

suddenly, it got bigger. 700 people arrested and then it really took off. i thought that the movement was really dwindling, zuccotti park was becoming increasingly kind of sorted and sketchy. then, they cracked down with such extreme force and all of the sudden, it is reinvigorated and they have their biggest march ever. >> we don't want the movement, if i'm coming from where you are coming from, to gain in public view based on the number of arrests made. i don't think there is any surprise that the captain feels some ambivalence about the movement. you have to be a captain to feel that. given there is this tension when it comes to the rule of law breaking down on both sides. where you have the jack asses versus jack boots. both sides taunting the other. my question is, you talk about the values that are being expressed. is it not clear to me there are

any consistency of values expressed? >> laura, i am going to have you answer that question after the brea break. ray lewis, thank you for coming in. we will be back and melissa harris-perry will join us after the break. you name it.

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msnbc contributor and my friend, melissa harris perry, profess torey sof political science at tu lane university. she writes for the nation. she is now at the table. awesome. >> matching the set. >> captain lewis was great. i am so glad he came by this morning. props to our booker, diane shamis, who used to work for laura and tracked him down and got him in here this morning. we are talking about sort of what has happened at "occupy" this week. i was on the brooklyn bridge for

the final part of the action. we were walking around with two of the members of staff. i said at one point, this sort of feels a bit like other marches at. there was something about the "occupy" movement that felt distinct and new. i was on the bridge and i was like, this sort of feels like something i have been at. then, we got up on to the bridge and we saw at the top of the sort of bridge, this projection on to the verizon building. someone had figured out -- there it is. you can see it. it was this projection, like the bat signal. it was against the building. it said, we are the 99%. it was sort of like, we are winning. this is a global uprising. all these sort of inspired phrases. everyone on the bridge sort of cheered. that moment felt like this is what has been so sort of fascinating and gal vinnizing about it, the shifting and

mutating ways of expressing this sentiment that has happened. it doesn't feel like this sort of stayed thing. it made me think of there isn't this place where the general assembly could happen in this society miniature, what are the next steps? >> this is why the media is so important and why i worked in independent media for so long and you have until you got here. are we going to allow this story to become what you described, which was the image taken away by a lot of people this week, or are we going to take our cameras where this movement actually has been? it hasn't just been a presence at the park. it has been a presence at the board of ed meetings, at the brooklyn court where they are auctioning off foreclosed houses, to see "occupy wall street" people stand up and sing, stop the sales, we will find the money. stop the sales. to see people stop houses getting foreclosed in cleveland. are we going to take our cameras there? are we going to show the power

that this movement has to bring real tools, not just to the 99% but to the 100% or are we going to do what the media tend to do, which is follow where the shiny cameras are, the shiny police cars are and the conflict? yes, you have a moment there with the tear gas, with the pepper spray. no question. it is important that we are on that story. let's face it, police brutality is part of what has motivated some of the people in this movement, brought some of them into the streets. but that's not what this movement is about. it is not about polarizing with police and half the time, as the captain said, at the occupy protest, you have people saying to the police, we're here for you. we're your daughters. we're your nieces. we're your sisters and brothers. you are part of the 99%. it is not a confrontational movement. it is a consciousness. >> it is getting increasingly confrontational. early on, there was a lot more of that, you know, give the police raises. after the raid.

it is understandable the anger is building on both sides. there was a lot more kind of things i'm not allowed to say on television hurled at the police and also confrontational with actually people on wall street. i have kind of mixed feelings about this. when i went -- there was the march on thursday night but in the morning, there was kind of a direct action to shut down wall street. >> which is where captain lewis is arrested. >> people barricading, linking arms is to stop people from getting into their buildings and cross intersections. i witnessed this one woman who had her coffee and was hurrying to work. the protesters wouldn't let her through. she said, sorry, wall street is closed today. she burst into tears. they said, she is not going to get into trouble because she has an excuse. her bosses could have said, get here early today, because there is going to be protests and she didn't make it. i have very mixed feelings about where the movement is going in

terms of this confrontational strategy. >> it leads to the question of values. is shutting down the port of oakland one of the values that "occupy wall street" or the "occupy" movement is ex pressin? or shutting down wall street? the answer is self-evidently no. >> you are saying -- clarify that. >> shutting down the new york stock exchange is the most and obvious and symbolically potent direct action? it is different than. >> symbolic of what? >> that they think this is the locust of a cancerous growth on american society which is the financial complex which accounted for 40% of corporate profits on the eve of the crash. an industry that should be at its best, essentially, the utilities, should channel money from savings to investment, should be productive, not create excess risk and destruction and that has become something

perverse and destructive. that perverse sieve destructiveness has rendered the society imms. zer rated. as a response, you need to disrupt the locust of that. >> the tea party shut down health care reform. >> health care reform isn't -- >> no, no, it was a bill. it was a bill and then it became a law. >> they shut downtown meetings. >> they shut down town meetings. they shut down democratic processes. do you think that pop las elements of it, that they wanted to shut down democracy? of course not. it was a strategy that they used in order to get their voices heard. do i think that occupy doesn't want people to go to work? obviously, not. obviously, "occupy" wants people to go to work. part of the strategy is going to be -- i guess what i am confused about, why the anxiety with it

being confrontational? >> i think my anxiety is about being confrontational with the wrong people? >> if you think about the great action from the late '60s or '70s when they threw dollar bills down on the trading floor and watched everybody scramble, to me, that was a very potent image and it was really going after the right people. my concern is kind of making enemies out of low-level office workers who don't understand it. >> they didn't come off the brooklyn bridge. for every conversation you saw on one side, we saw on the other side. this was about a check of power. >> the limitation. i will just suggest this. i hear what you are saying about media. a couple of things that organizers always have to remember. it is not independent media. it is corporate media that drives these things. part of strategy, certainly part of civil rights strategy and feminist strategy is to figure out a media strategy and part of the problem of localized action against what is a global issue

is that you do end up in physical confrontation with street-level bureaucrats and with maiers and with -- those mayors can do anything from coopting to ago gressing. you do end up in physical confrontation or direct action with folks that aren't quite the people. >> laura blankfine is not the person coming out with the pepper spray. lloyd blankfein. i am saying as an example of the sort of person that occupy wall street targets. >> you had a day of let's can we delay the opening bell that ended with an enormously diverse, legal licensed. completely peaceful. >> and then very theatrical arrest on the brooklyn bridge which was, let's just say, you have the leader of our fastest growing union arrested there on the sheets.

how come that wasn't news? >> we are going to talk about the future of "occupy wall street" and this interesting point we have landed on, which is this, the sort of inevitably polarizing effect of confrontation. i want to get to that right after this. congratulations. congratulations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire businesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa ! ... as the people inside them. congratulations. because when you add verizon to your company, you don't just add, you multiply. ♪ discover something new... verizon. pnc virtual wallet gathers your spending and saving in one place. credit and debit purchases, checks, bills, and other financial information. it lets you see the details as well as the big financial picture. so you can do more with your money.

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home, are their parents going to have to house break them all over again? >> i will admit that i find rush limbaugh incredibly entertaining. >> he found himself entertaining. >> he was like, that was a good one. house broken. see what i did there. i wanted to play that because i think that's just a little taste of what's going on in the conservative media about "occupy." the reason i think that is jermaine because we have been talking about the fact that there are sort of two things happening. direct action movements require conflict. conflict and confrontation are what they are about, they are polarizing. the genius was this 99% idea, this massively big tent. the fact of the matter is, american politics are very polarized. it was only a matter of time that "occupy wall street" would become poll rooizing partly because of confrontation and partly because of this is what has happened in the conservative media. they have turned full throat against the protesters. >> that was going to happen regardless. >> it didn't have to happen this way. facts are facts. they are not making this stuff

up whole cloth. there were rape safe tents. there is violence. >> like in new york or d.c. or baltimore? the idea that social ills exist in a social space. it should not surprise the media. >> so you don't want to hold any of these people personally accountable. >> of course i would. >> that's a ridiculous overstatement. of course, i would. part of my concern, i suppose, is for example, on the anxiety about rape, i typically have a pretty good read on folks that are fundamentally concerned with the question of violence against women. the reason i have a good read on this, because they report on it regularly. they support policies that would reduce violence against women. >> at the top of the list is sean hannity. >> when that happens, my ears always perk up. why in this moment do you

suddenly have a concern about a set of social ills. >> they have cared about law and order issues for a long time. this is not something new. >> james has a very good piece on this, which he wrote in the atlantic, which i thought was interesting this week, about how how "occupy" allows republicans to find their old-time law and order religion, which has been missing for a long time. they got as much out of that politically. they squeezed and squeezed and squeezed and crime went down. at a certain point, law and order rhetoric didn't have the increase. >> they put everybody in jail. >> the democrats adopted it and grew -- >> you think that "occupy" sort of tees up this to reseize nixon '68. >> when ann cole zer talks about demonic loons, it is about mob tactics and mob mentality.

conservatives since edmond berk has been concerned about the mop taking politics. >> the tea party did not adopt m mob tactics the reason you are seeing this pushed into the mainstream conversation, from those guys that started out with raw video. >> they started out with edited video. >> there is a reason why that message was so effective for nixon. it was because the country itself was driven by social unrest. you had rising crime. this is happening still in a contest of relative social peace. with economic conditions being what they are, there has been so little general unrest. no surveys of voters' concerns

put crime near the top of the list. this isn't a crystal zation of a larger, free-floating society. >> i hope people go and see the edgar j. hoover movie. the j. edgar hoover story that clint eastwood is telling us reminds us that even as dr. king, the most nonviolent guy in the world is receiving the nobel peace prize, you have j. edgar in the back room trying to smear the man. >> the lawbreaker. >> he would have never got elected in any state of the union if he was cast as this terrible -- >> the point is that law itself is the thing we value the most. i would agree the law and order question has been a central tenant on the right. civil disobedience does require breaking the law and going to jail. i saw just other day an image of harriet tubman described as a runaway slave. in order to do that, what you

have to do is understand her legal status as slave was her primary identity. she is always this lawbreaker. we now look back and go, obviously. >> she is a hero. >> at any given moment, law is always up for social redefinition. >> jesse myerson who we have had on the problem covering "occupy wall street," had this tweet the other day, the fruit vendor in tunisia who was arrested and lit himself on fire was actually illegally selling fruit. he was arrested for breaking the law. he didn't have a license to sell the fluruit. no one lingers on the il lee gagiga gality of his fruit selling. up next after the break. 5 flavo, yoplait original gives you 50% of the daily value of calcium in every cup.

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buddies are proposing a hit job on "occupy wall street." this week, here at "up" we obtained a memo written for the american banker's association that lays out a campaign against "occupy wall street" and any politicians that might express sympathy for it including specific democratic politicians in contested races. it was prepared by the washington lobbying firm, clark, liedle gadulic and cranford. two are former speaker aids for john boehner. prepared as a pitch document for the american banker's association, a client of clgc. it lays out the political threat that "occupy wall street" poses for the banks and their sworn defenders. democratic victories in 2012. the authors write would mean more than short-term political discomfort for wall street firms and has the potential to have

long-lasting political, financial impact on the companies in the center of the bull's eye. here we have in black and white, former boehner aides that lobby for wall street admitting they will be tougher on wall street and admit that "occupy wall street" might push republicans to distance themselves from wall street's bigger concerns. the bigger concern in the words of the memo's author should be, quote, that republicans will no longer defend wall street companies. in order to head off this terrifying eventuality. they propose a program of occupy research on occupy activists to identify opportunities to construct fact-base the narratives of the ows for high impact media placement to expose the backers. they admit that individual companies likely will not be the best spokes people for their own cause because, well, everyone hates the bankers. the former boehner aides that now lobby for wall street sketch

out a strategy of deploying proxies to shield for wall street and against "occupy" without the public knowing. they urge big banks to punish politicians who target them early on to send a message. a big challenge is to demonstrate these companies still have political strength and making them a political target will carry a severe political cost. a strong media placement early in a transition to adopt the ows movement will send a powerful signal about the risks of carrying that through. one goal of this campaign, the former boehner aides write, is to, quote, provide cover for political figures who defend the industry. they are proposing a campaign using wall street money to defend wall street's political allies and specifically targeting democratic politicians for re-election who might stand up to wall street. naming sharon brown and identifying senate races in

florida, virginia, wisconsin and new mexico. it was clear if they began to have success, it would have a massive backlash from the powers that be. we have seen the empire strike back. we placed a call to clark, liedle, ga did and cranford to ask them about the memo. they did not respond. they told us, our government staff did receive the proposal. it was unsolicited and we chose not to act ston on it in any wa. what's contained in this short memory are all those of the status quote coming together to squash "occupy." it represents just about everything wrong with america in four short pages. a lobbying firm that glowingly advertises that sam ga dell knows how to kill legislative threats to his clients drawing up a plan for the financial industry use deep pockets to

protect and have political cover for bank friendly policies. they would have the help and connections of fellow partner, jay cranford, a few short moments ago, was working as a policy aide to speaker boehner. here is thing to consider. this is just one memo from one firm that we just happen to get our hands on. think for a moment of how many similar documents are floating around out there. how much moneys and power is being amassed to make sure "occupy wall street" is a brief fad and a quirky cultural moment we will all vaguely remember. that's if the 1% get their way. we will post the memo on our website after the program is over. i will be talking about this on weekends with alex witt after the program on "up" tomorrow, sen author sharrod brown joins us to respond to the program. ♪

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michael steele responding to the memo. >> my understanding is that president obama is the single largest recipient for the donations from wall street. melissa, do you have reaction to the memo? >> only, i suppose, that you frame it as if this is all the most evil horrible things possible. maybe but it is also true that just as long as we were talking about protesters disrupting the status quo. you have to expect the status quo to protest themselves. one thing i was having a conversation with a colleague yesterday. we spend a lot of time trying to figure out how do we shift the public opinion of those who are part of the 99%. at the same time we are saying the 99% is terribly disempowered. to are me, what would be part of what would be interesting is to ask how do we shift the incentives for the 1%. how do we make the incentive structure different?

typically, we would use the tax code to do that? in other words, i'm a little less outraged and appalled than feeling like this is what it means to control the resources. >> the fascinating thing about that memo is for anybody who has doubts about whether the occupy wall street movement is effective, as i have had from time to time, i keep going back and forth on it. that seems about as dispositive of a statement of the fact that this movement is really accomplishing something. i think that -- >> it's an amazing statement of priorities, though. this is an industry facing complete collapse, they suggest. we need to save this entire sector. they are going to pay less than $1 million. >> this is just one firm trying to drum up some business. american bankers. >> this is an incompetent pitch. just imagine -- >> if a good one came. >> here is what is interesting to me about this. what is the fear that's expressed in the moem mo, that

"occupy" is going to hooblg up with the tea party and it will be game over for the establishment. yes, "occupy" is making a dent of what's going on in politics these days but specifically in this contest where they say it is not just about sort of the radical left seizing the moment but the radical left and the radical right sitting down and saying, wait a minute, is there something we can rethink here? when you rap sodize about slogans like this is a global uprising, i don't think that's a winning message with the american people. when you look at occupy memphis, the tea partyers said, let's have coffee. they set down and had their own town hall. it actually worked. i think if that starts happening across the country, if that arrangement catches on, the fears in that memo might come true. >> this lobbying firm lobbied heavily for t.a.r.p. which is

the sort of point, the most intense point of intersection between the grievances that both of these sides share and that most sort of pits the establishment and the beltway against sort of popular sentiment. >> how likely do you think that is? that memphis story that came out this week was kind of interesting. simply the owe ver tour was tifrp. the fears expressed at this level. i am curious about what you think. >> it is an interesting question, an important question. i this i i'm going to go out on a limb and say there might be important regional differences here. your not going to see this happen in oakland. you are not going to see this happen on the eastern power corridor. if you are going to see it happen, it will happen in the mid-section of the country. >> we are going to talk more about this right after this break. ♪ you, you ain't alone

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we are back here with james, michele, laura and melissa. ben smith at politico put up this graphic and a few others have recently to show the one way in which unquestionably occupy wall street has been effective. this speaks to why you have a washington lobbying firm writing to american bankers association saying, we got to do something about this. this is income equality in news since september. do we have that -- income inequality in the news. it's gone up five-fold over the two-month life of occupy wall street. and i think this is a place where the agenda-setting power of it is just indisputable and evident. to me what's to remarkable is, when we were having this conversation, the tea party was amadzingly effective. in completely centering the national conversation on government being too big,

deficit, cuts, cuts, cuts, completely effective. we are living with that effectiveness in the body of the supercommittee. the conversation has shifted but there's a weird moment in which the conversation we're having is about income inequality and jobs and the machinery of policy -- >> that's the point. this is the place where the tea party beats occupy wall street. it is just the one place. that is, they ran candidates for office and won and went to washington. we are now -- my bet is, if you were to map that same graph against deficit reductions that it would be going down just as the conversation -- >> in fact, that graphic exists and you are correct. >> yea! good on that. so, the fact is the supercommittee is still in there talking about deficit reduction, not income inequality. so, yes, we have to reset the agenda, but where the tea party just got it right, where we haven't yet -- i know all parties are corrupt and the system is broken, but they ran

for office. >> a lot of occupy people are people that got entirely behind the barack obama campaign and now looking at a president who has come out in favor of social security reform and medicare reform and has not lived up to their dreams. so, i don't think it -- >> so, one -- >> i just think the idea these are not people that have ever engaged in electoral politics -- >> i'm saying they never have engaged -- >> i think this is a pathology on the left, the confined of -- their quickness to despair of electoral politics. yes, barack obama has failed to create a kind of scandinavian welfare state in less than three years, but, you know -- >> i don't think that was the goal. >> no, but that's what i would personally like to see. but i just -- what's amazing to me is having, you know, having written a lot about the right, you know, the right when they didn't get their way, starting in the '70s, they did it systematically, took over the

democratic party from grass roots and got presidents responsive to them because they are roos roots of the party. time and again with democrats you see intense mobilizations for presidential campaigns and then a kind of complete throwing your hands up in despair when a single president fails to change the system. >> but i don't think -- >> finally f you really believe wall street power is as entrenched as i think a lot of us do believe, then you also cannot think that a single president and a single election can undo it. >> look at ohio and wisconsin. these people are not only active at the federal level also the local level and that's where they're going next. >> we've seen in both states channelling from protests to electoral politics. it's a big question about if electoral politics is an agenda. they announced occupy congress movement that will happen in december. i want to speak. to anita dunn joining us after the break. you could guarantee me they won't be beat. oh, actually... then i'd be like, you rule! and my kids would be like, you rule! i'd be like, yes, i do rule!

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good morning, i'm chris hayes in new york. if you missed your first hour, check your dvr because we had an "up" exclusive. joining me now to talk about that story and the day's other political news is senior adviser to president obama's campaign and former white house communications director anita dunn. thanks for joining us. i really appreciate it. >> good morning, chris. thank you for having me on this morning. >> so, i think you saw thor to we were just talking about, the memo we obtained from a lobbying firm with two partners of which used to work for speaker john boehner. i want to read you a quote and get your reaction. it says, it shouldn't be surprising the democratic party or even president obama's re-election team would campaign against wall street in the cycle. however, the bigger concern should be that republicans will no longer defend wall street companies and might start running against them, too. what do you make of that?

>> boy, that is a scary prospect, isn't it, chris? i have to say, having watched the first hour of your show, that i -- i thought there was a story on the front page of the "new york times" this morning that actually provides a nice complement to it, which is the story about the wall street donors rallying behind scott brown against elizabeth warren. and the extraordinary support they're showing him. they actually use in the headline the phrase vilifying his opponent. which is true. if you look at what's been going on if that massachusetts senate rate, you'll ee some tactics that the memo you've been discussing talked about in terms of occupy wall street being used, crossroads gps, which is the large karl rove-backed so-called super pack has been running ads up there using a lot of those themes in terms of vul fiing occupy wall street, elizabeth warren is a threat to foreign democracy. nobody should think that this is

going to be easy. it wasn't easy for the president to get financial reform legislation passed that would do common sense things. i mean, those are common sense things. those are rules that i think make the system fairer for everyone. and the battle that the president had to fight to get that passed was extraordinary. and the fact that every single one of the republican candidates for president has as one of their top job creators the repeal of those common sense reforms tells you something about politics today. >> one of the things interesting in the memo as well is that it views this in fairly squarely partisan terms. that the threat of democratic victories in 2012 on the sort f of -- strengthened by the occupy wall street sentiment being

channelled is we'll see further reform of wall street and politicians will convert to policy at the same type, the critique of the president not just from progressives but i think john boehner's spokesperson talking about the president raising a lot of money from wall street is that the president himself is too close to wall street and wall street interests. what is your response to that? >> i would say if that's the case, then why were these tough reforms passed over, you know, party line republican opposition? why are they refusing to allow the president to actually, you know, nominate and get confirmed the head of the consumer financial protection bureau? i think that's ridiculous. another story this morning that i think is worth looking at is the fact that the president's re-election campaign is being fueled, the majority of it, by small donors. people are, quote, surprised by that. well, you shouldn't be surprised by that. people in this country

understand that the president's values about responsibility, about accountability, about fairness, are the ones that really are the traditional american values we need to get back to in our economy. how we move forward together, you know, that we're all in this together. there isn't some small secret special group of people who somehow don't have to sacrifice as the rest of us do. i think that is a core difference in this campaign and one the american people are seeing. it's why the republicans are so scared of the occupy wall street sentiments. because it's given voice to this idea that there are these growing inequalities. heck, paul ryan made a speech about income inequality recently. what does that tell you? >> i'm glad you raised the issue of the re-election campaign. one thing that strikes me is that a lot of the -- a lot of the grassroots energy that the president was able to marshal in 200 8 as insurgent, as an

underdog, particularly in the beginning of the campaign, a lot of that energy we've seen in some ways channeled into occupy wall street right now. and we've heard stories in my own reporting, a story in "the new york times" about disillusionment among young people or lack of energy. what do you see as challenges that face re-election and the differences between running this race in 2012 as an incumbent president than 2008 when it was this sort of insurgent movement? >> well, obviously, it's -- every race is unique and every race is different. for three years, this country has been, you know,ing living with the aftermath of the policies that created the greatest financial crisis and recession we've had since the great depression. you know, we're all in it together. which has been a huge part of the president's message. we're all going to get out of it together by building an economy that's built to last this time. not going from bubble to bubble. but listen, this election at the end of the day is going to be a

choice. and i think that if you look at the number of small donors, if you look at the people who are starting to sign up to volunteer, to say, yes, there really is a choice this time. it's a fundamental choice about what kind of america we'll be in the future. you know, we're a year out from the election, chris. i think a lot of people right now are saying, i'm going to wait until it really makes a difference. over the next year, it's going to make a difference. if you look at the amount of money that the other side is going to have, and i think that the -- your story this morning about the lobbying effort against occupy wall street as well as the story of the amount of money being poured into scott brown's campaign, as well as any story about how much money crossroads gps or any the other republican super packs are raising helz you whtells you wh stakes are in this election. it's the small number of people who feel like they should be able to write the rules to

benefit themselves against the 99. and i think this is a case where the rest of us are going to get together and say, there's -- the stakes are too high to sit home. i think you see that with the small donations to the president's campaign. you know, over half of those people are new donors from last time. >> that's interesting. you just mentioned crossroads gps, which is an outside group run by karl rove, raised a lot of money, bought a lot of paid media already in its short things, run things in swing states, wisconsin. the last time around, the president's campaign directed democratic donors and outside groups to not prop up outside groups that were chartered under a whole variety of legal terminology, 527, super packs, et cetera. this time around we are seeing groups like that, priorities usa, which bill burton, who used to work in the white house s working at. is this acknowledgment to the reality of how broken the campaign finance system is in the wake of citizens united,

that you can no longer toe the line against having outside groups? >> chris, you articulated it beautifully. the supreme court basically said, let's open the flood gates here. and i think that, unfortunately, that is the world in which we live right now. it's one of the reasons why the small donations to the president's campaign, the people across the country who are sending $10 or $25, who aren't the big donors, who aren't the people who can hire the lobbyists and write the rules, right, those people are getting behind the president's campaign and they are at the end of the day the best defense against big donors funning the republican campaigns. i will say this, though. there's no doubt we need fundamental reform in this country. next year will mark the ten-year anniversary of mccain/fine goei. look where we are now? it's a challenge for all progressives, how do we fix this system? >> the president's approval ratings have edged up recently.

we tend to, i think, obsess a little about the approval ratings from day to day because it's very messy data. lord knows what's happening in a given tracking poll. but the president's ratings have gone up recently. we have some polling here, i think. this is job approval rise. this is a five-point spread, disapproval before the introduction of the american jobs act, according to pew, and since then we have him tied at 46% approve, 46% disapprove. looks like the tactic the president has taken, which a lot of people urged him to do earlier, craft legislation, give it to congress and ask congress and push congress to pass it, to go out and campaign and stump in its favor. this is a way of approaching the legislative process that people have called for since the very beginning. the president did not take a bunch of signature legislative efforts. he has with the americans job

act. is this a model for the next 14 months -- i guess, 12 months at this incident, going into the election? >> well, chris, this country has a tremendous challenge when it comes to its economy. there are millions of people across the country who don't have jobs, who want to work, who are looking for jobs, who are still feeling the effects of the crash from 2008. and the fact that the republicans in congress won't get behind proposals they themselves have backed in the past really tells you agreat deal about their true agenda. i think the president sent to congress a common sense package of proposals that will create jobs in september. and that will he continue to press conference as he has to pass these things and get people back to work. to start building the foundation for an economy that will last. not an economy that goes from bubble to bubble. and one where hard work is rewarded and responsibility is recognized. i think that is a huge contrast

with republican field. but it's also the right thing to do. and, frankly, if you look at congress's approval ratings right now, particularly republicans in congress, it's like they're trying to see if they can do the -- you know, get down to single digits. i think in recent polls they have in some places. you would think they would listen to the american people, too, who say, let's are some balance, let's attack these issues, but above all, let's look for results, solutions and get people back to work. but they're not listening. and the question is whether they start listening before 2012. the president is going to keep pushing because that's what he need to do in order to get people back to work. >> we saw polling data, things more popular -- >> don't tell the people at fox, all right. >> anita dunn, former white house communications director. thanks for joining us. i hope you'll come back 37. >> oh, thank you, chris. i hope you'll have me.

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newt gingrich was reached as top gop contender. two days later on wednesday, bloomberg news -- i just to want take a second to give a hat tip to bloomberg on this. this was fantastic reporting by the reporters. they reported newt gingrich was paid at least $1.6 million from freddie mac. we thought it was just $300,000. at one point, this is -- i love this detail.

at one point he was paid a self high renewing retainer of $25,000 to $30,000. i love the term self-renewing. april 30th, let's reup the bad boy. >> don't hate the player. >> that's true. don't hate the player, hate the game. what's so interesting about this to me is that, you know, freddie mac and its larger cousin fannie mae have been super unpopular with republicans. in fact, republicans faced with this financial crisis had a kind of ideological challenge which is you have this collapse of tremendous market failure, right? but you can't quite ideologically say, well, financial capitalism is in ruins. have you to find a government culprit. so, what happened was a story was reverse-engineered to create fannie and freddie as the culprits of the housing bubble. in defiance of the data, which i'll go back and forth with you

on, but what's interesting first are the political ramifications. he's gingrich's response skbed about by john harwood and his explanation for what he was doing for fannie and freddie. >> were you not trying to help freddie mac fend off the effort by the bush administration? >> no, no, i -- i have never done -- i have never -- >> to curb freddie mac? >> i assume i get a second question? i have never done any lobbying. every contract was written during the period when i was out of the office, specifically said i would do no lobbying and i offered advice. my advice as a historian, we are now making loans to people with no credit history and have no record of paying back anything but that's what the government wants us to do, i said to them at the time, this is a bubble. this is insane. this is impossible. >> sources inside freddie mac say that's not true. that, in fact, he did not warn them. he did not consult subprime

lending, as he seems to be intimating. i want to go to you first because i want to talk about this politically for a second. i think rick perry was damaged early on in his campaign to be the anti-romney by the bachmann talks, on the hpv virus and romney's attack on immigration. do you think this will hurt newt on his right flank given the role fannie and freddie play in this conservative imagination? >> let's get through these things quickly. first about fannie and freddie. andrew cuomo was not at fault, rahm emanuel was not at fault, is that right in your estimation? >> my contentious is that the housing bubble was driven by private market forces and if you look at the period where housing bubble takes off, around 200 2 and 2003 at the moment fannie and freddie's share of plummeted from 50% to 20%.

private securitization was driving all. subprime lending. fannie and freddie are corrupt in all sorts of terrible ways and really awful entity in a whole bunch of ways and spreading money all around washington but they resident the cause of the housing double and catastrophe. but to the policy of newt gingrich. >> i think you're right that perry was hurt very badly coming out of the gate. i do not think michele bachmann's attacks blew back in her face. i think immigration hurt him. i think largely his own fault 37 when you tell your own constituents they are heartless, they will respond in kind. newt gingrich, right? what a man. in any other race this fannie/freddie thing would be damaging, disqualifying but we're in a very special race right now. it may just be there's no one else who can make as solid of a case, that he's the last anti-mitt standing. mitt talks about the weedses,

policy, wants to bracket the whole conversation about the future of western civilization and whether or not our culture is in peril and that's newt's bread and butter. mitt can't compete with newt when it comes to talking about the future -- >> this goes beyond fannie and freddie because it's been rev l revealed newt was lobbying on behalf of health care mandate -- >> medicare d. >> advanced care directives, known in the conservative argot as death panels. so, you know -- and in a way, maybe that ends up helping romney because it makes it clear what's always been clear to people who follow these things is that these health care plans that are now -- health care reform now de cried as tie ran cal socialism, actually had its other begins in the heritage foundation and a lot of conservative ideas espoused by people like newt gingrich. >> but newt is not tied to them the same way romney is.

>> in the end -- it is an odd race. it's been so fun. i weep daley that herman cain is no longer the front-runner of the gop. in the end i think it will be less about these ideological battles, as important as they seem at the moment, it's going to be about who republican primary voters think is most likely to defeat president obama. if newt can make that claim, he'll be the nominee. ultimately for all the wrangling going on at the moment, once they start caucusing and voting, the question will be, who looks like they can beat the president. >> it really comes down to which is more prevalent inside republican circles, obama hate or mormon hate because that's really what -- >> you really think that? >> the fact that newt's candidacy is where it is today is extraordinary. just on this question of fannie and freddie for just a second -- >> please. we can talk about it all morning. >> these stories come up and they become election horse race

stories but the key to the fannie and freddie story is not that they brought down the financial industry. it's that they modeled how to control the controllers. throughout the '90s, after the savings and loans. gretchen morganson writes about this. after savings and loans, the effort to require financial agencies, including first and foremost fannie and freddie, quasi government group, to have capital to support their loans, was serious, a serious drive killed by this money that was spread around. so, in that sense of buying off the regulators, fannie and freddie, what they modeled was critical. sure, it's dirt on newt gingrich now, but it is a lot of people who lost their homes. >> right. and i think so you see, it's part of the sort of economy of influence in washington that is sort of a broad and emerging theme. i want to talk more about that and i want to play some great -- some of newt's greatest hits on his -- his thoughts.

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i think senator mccain should have said to senator obama, are you prepared to give back all the money that fannie mae and freddie mac gave to you? are you prepared to fire your housing adviser who was paid $90 million over six years while helping ruin fannie mae? are you prepared to fire your adviser who was the former head of fannie mae, mr. johnson? are you prepared to disassociate yourself from chris dodd, the highest recipient of money from fannie mae? i think compared, for example, to senator chris dodd taking a below market interest mortgage from countrywide before it went broke, compared to chris dodd and barack obama being the number one and two recipients of money from fannie mae and freddie mac while they were going broke, i think it's hard to argue that a family feud is a big scandal. >> that is former house speaker

newt gingrich circa 2008, basically making a strong, passionate case that taking any money from freddie mac and fannie mae is reprehensible, corrupting and the top of everyone's mind when talking about these things. i am just amazed by the fact that newt gingrich is in this position. partly because i think i have this idea part of the frustration on the right and the tea party driving is the crony capitalism, that is something we on the left and right can unite around. if they nominate newt gingrich, that to me thinks that's not what's going on. that's not a concern. here's someone who could not be more of a creature of that same morally bankrupt establishment, right? tell me i'm right. >> newt is one of these guys who seems to have rebis here because there's something about newt. he could have this rebirth here

of napoleonic proportion. they said napoleon had a great moment when his wife was accusing him of infidelity and he said i have the right to answer all accusationings against me, that's me. that's newt. yes, i was couch cuddling with nancy pa loycy. that's stupid. next question. there's a weird way in which we'll say, yes, we to want see this guy on who came in at the forefront of the republican revolution, soldier for the movement, fell from grace, sort of went down into the crevasse and covered in slime and now we can maybe pull him out again. >> he'll do almost anything for money. but the other thing, you know, we talked earlier about republicans on law and order but other things they're big on is nostalgia. long-term nostalgia. there was once this america, thins were great, if we could reclaim that america.

but partisan nostalgia, revitalization and vision of reagan, but there is potentially a sort of newt gingrich nostalgia that could emerge around. >> he's trying to taut -- of his main talking points, substantively is that the balanced budget and the economic surplus of the '90s were his doings, right? that's one things he's come to own. in items of the newt grandiosity which i find fascinating because he's an amazing character study. a quoted i never encountered until james' column in "the daily caller," him writing notes to himself. in advance of giving a talk at gop a. talking about who newt is and what -- and what newt's role is. do i have this? >> like i'm pat from "saturday night live"?

enough people -- >> no. here it is advocate of civilization, teacher of the rules of civilization, a rouser of those who form civilization, organizer of the pro-civilization activist and leader, possibly, of the civilizing forces. >> this is hilarious and also the key to his appeal for those who were in this battle for chris chrisdom. whi beyond issues of crony capitalism or beyond health care, the real issue is that the forces of darkness are bee sieging the city on a hill that is america and only newt understands the big picture. >> and mitt romney is very bad at big picture. >> but he has abba as his cell phone ring. i mean, is that -- >> i wish we had that sound.

>> the defender of civilization when you -- >> it's revealing he's talking in civilizational terms. he's not saying i'm michele bachmann, god wants us to win this. he's talking in these very -- in this, if i can use the phrase big tent. the ultimate big tent of civilization itself. and i think that that, when you stack it up against what mitt romney is selling, real strikes a chord with people who want to see a kind of great man kind of figure come into this race in the republican party. the paul ryans of the world not playing ball this time around. >> it's also been fascinating to see the way that -- because you said the civilization rhetoric is secular but also is a dog whistle to people who see this stuff in theological stuff. some of the evangelicals accommodate themselves to newt begin rich as a bearer for --

>> he's had a lot of lives and families. >> what i fine interesting about civilizing is that this could be -- particularly if tea party and occupy find a way to find point of contact and to really be collectively the pushback, the other side of that is not just the 1% sort of economically, it's a personality we call authoritarianism. that's a rough term politically but it means people who prefer order and prefer structure and are really -- really find it a very anxious and upsetting situation when you can't predict what's going to happen. so, they will take predi predictabili predictability, even over inequality -- >> i think that's a great point. here's newt gingrich -- i want to go out on newt gingrich making exactly this case, tying it all together in talking about occupy wall street. take a look at this, go to break and come right back.

>> the destructive, hostile, anti-civilization behaviors of the so-called occupy wall street crowd, they want to tear down our country. we love our country and we want to rebuild our country. it's nice 'n easy colorblend foam! permanent color with tones and highlights. now in a delightful foam. just three shakes, foam it, love it! it's foamtastic! new nice 'n easy colorblend foam. your right color.

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that saves me money. with slate from chase, i'm always in control. financially, anyway. get slate with blueprint and save money. call 855-get-slate today. ♪ something about this place >> lady gaga seeing "you and i," i taught myself to play it on the guitar. one day i'll do a "up" republican addition. my senior producer who just hooked me up with the quote in the teleprompter as i was fishing around, well done. thank you retch. some of the big names on tomorrow's sunday talkers include senators john kyl, john kerry, and xavier, supercommittee members, ron paul will be out there. we got you a list of others as well. what would you ask of whom if

you were on the sunday talk shows? >> here's my question for toomey, the tea party guy on the supercommittee, who's getting slammed for daring to put forward a package that raises net revenues to margins. how could this happen? i thought this was the crazy tee party guy who doesn't want to raise, you know, revenues at all. i thought that's what the tea party was all about. wrong. the tea partiers are the ones in the republican party who have an interest in bumping up revenues a little bit if you go to the root of the problem, which is changing the tax code. question is, toomey, why is it that establishment republicans in congress don't understand what guys like ron paul and rick perry and jon huntsman across the primary field understand, which is if you want to solve the deficit problem, if you want to deal with revenues, you got to go straight at the tax code, rip it up, start over. >> michelle goldberg, what would you ask? >> throughout the debates we keep hearing all the candidates attack obama for not supporting the opposition in iran, who some of the candidates have referred

to as the insurgents in iran. i would like to ask condoleezza rice whether she thinks this attempt of the kind of the american right to association itself with this -- with iranian opposition is dangerous to the iranian opposition who has so far been clear they don't want public and -- >> why is that the case? the idea being they will be tainted fundamentally. >> i mean, the main kind of rhetorical against iranian opposition is that they are american puppets as opposed to, you know, kind of patriotic reformers. it seems as if the republican field has done everything in their power to prop up that interpretation. i would love to see condoleezza rice, who i think has the kind of genuine understanding of the situation, talk about whether or not she -- they are actually hurting the people thats on sentencibly they want to help. >> it wouldn't help occupy wall

street if al jazeera came out with a statement -- >> i think for the supercommittee members, i would like them to turn to the camera and apologize to the american people for having run this deficit con job hostage-taking all summer. are we supposed to say, that's fine. no big deal. we understand you're going to roll back the defense cuts before this next opportunity comes around. i mean, i think it's an insult and i think people are furious. and the last thing i would say is i would ask any of them, are they willing to give up their seat at the table and allow some occupy wall street person to actually sit there and speak for themselves? >> i will tell you, they will say no. >> next question. i will speak for xavier, john kerry, jon kyl. melissa, what would you ask them? >> i'm interested in talking to ron paul about occupy wall street, particularly about state action, you know, local government action over and against the right to assembly. i always find paul fascinating in the way he thinks about civil liberties, the way he thinks

about the constitution. not clearly in agreement with my positions on these things but i find it enlightening to hear paul sort of discuss and think about what exactly our freedoms are the constitution protects. i would be interested to see what he thinks -- >> that would be a great discussion. congressman paul f you're watching, i would love to have you on "up with chris hayes" for that conversation. what do we know now we didn't know last week? ♪ ♪

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i'll tell you what i didn't know but now a preview of "weekends with alex witt," what's kol up? >> capitol hill countdown. if supercommittee fails, what happens next? members are on the hill. will they beat that clock? speaking of clock, the debt clock keeps ticking, $15 trillion, we'll look at possible solutions to the growing

problem. and a new and mysterious twist in the natalie wood case. we know the investigation into her death is reopened but why would one person close to the situation decide to hire a lawyer? chris, not stray too far from the studio, we'll see you at 9:30 a.m. with your occupy wall street exclusive. >> thank you, alex. what do we know now we didn't know last week? we know that the forcible eviction of tents, tarps and encampment not to mention trashing of thousands much its books, the first chapter of occupy wall street has come to a close and a new chapter begins. we now enenforcement around the country seems far more vigilant going after those who exercise their right to protest in public spaces than architects of financial calamity. 4500 arrests of peaceful occupiers around the country untold numbers of beatings, pepper spray and represses ive tacti tactics. we also know, thanks to a new analysis of justice department data by transactional records access clearing house at

syracuse university that federal prosecutions for financial institution fraud are at a 20-year low. during that same period of time, we know federal prosecutions for all crimes more than doubled. so, we now know we live in a country that deploys pepper spray for kids with signs but looks the other way when our largest financial institutions almost destroy the global economy through recklessness and deception. we now know ows is large and powerful enough to predict back lash from the 1% and not just in the figure of mayor michael bloomberg. we know a prominent washington lobby firm with strong ties to john boener is pitching the bank industry on a $150,000 campaign directed at tarnishing occupy wall street and attacking democrat candidates. we now know 1% greatest fear is that republicans will no longer defend wall street companies. we now know definitively that the air is coming out of the herman cain bubble as he falls back to third in the most recent

polls. we don't know if it's because of the four women who have accused him of sexual harassment or performances like the following from an interview with milwaukee sentinel journal. >> so you agreed with president obama on libya or not? >> okay, libya. president obama supported the uprising, correct? president obama called for the removal of gadhafi. want to make sure we're talking about the same thing before i say, yes i agree or, no, i did not agree. i don't agree with the way he handled it for the following reason. no, that's a different one.

i got to go back and see. got all this stuff twirling around in my head. specifically, what are you asking me did i agree or not disagree with obama? i would have gone about assessing the situation differently, which might have -- which might have caused us to end up at the same place, but where i think more could have been done was what's the nature of the opposition. >> we know that memorizing one's briefing book is a pretty difficult task but we also know it takes a special kind of personality to pivot so quickly from having absolutely no idea what you're talking about to offering a strong opinion on same. thanks also to the milwaukee journal sentinel we know the chinese city guangzhou has a lower infant mortality rate than

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want to find out what my guests know that they didn't

know when the week began? i'll begin with you, james? >> i now know syria on is on the brink of war and informed opinion is sharply divide over whether or not this is going to happen and what the consequences are going to be for the region. i think one thing we can tell for sure is that whereas it looked like iran was rising in the region, it now looks like iran is thrown back on the heels with nuclear signists being assassinated, with the virus afflicting weapons program and now with client state syria looking like it's about to fall to pieces. >> i saw a crazy graphic, stopped me in my tracks. mauck i' just the amount of civilians killed by the syrian state since what started as a nonviolent uprising began. it's been -- >> triple digits. >> day after day after day, hundreds of people being killed by the state. it's absolutely gruesome what's happening in syria. there aren't really cameras in there so we're not -- it seems invisible to us who -- particularly us who work in

television. michelle goldberg? >> i think we now know enthusiastic support of police action will not protect a journalist from police brutality while covering said action. one of the big stories of occupy wall street has been the crackdown of the press and keeping the press away from -- away from events and arrests journalists who are there covering it, including roughing up a reporter from the new york post, which had called for this crackdown on the cover. and then roughing up one of your colleagues "the daily caller" who was then picked up and helped by the occupy wall street proteste protesters. >> laura flanders? >> i know now melissa is really serious about the cain campaign because she's weeping watching that press conference. we also know the mayors of this country can get together and coordinate. talking about how to coordinate their evictions of occupy wall street. could they coordinate action around jobs and housing and --

>> you're referencing gene quan, mayor of oakland which gave an interview to the bbc which mentioned she was on a conference call with other mayors and there was a sense there had been coordination because these evictions cascade -- >> she said it. let's coordinate about other things. >> melissa, what do you now know? >> you mean this week? >> yes, this week. >> let me think about that. >> you did such a good job i was like, oh, my god, did i ask a bad question. i had this panic attack. that was very good. you sold me on that. >> good, good, good. >> no, no, that's the wrong one. >> no, actually, you know on the newt gingrich rise, you know, for me, i'm such an elections person, i'm just fascinated by what's going on in the gop right now. and i feel like i'm learning just how powerful the not mitt vote is. the fact it keeps landing on one after another after another in this cycle and just seems to be

who will the roulette wheel come around to in iowa. >> my thanks to james and michelle goldberg of "newsweek" and "daily beast", laura flanders of grittv.org and melissa perry, tulane professor and my guest tomorrow. we're keeping you for another day. thank you for joining us today for "up." up next is "weekends with alex witt" and i'll be with here in a moment to talk about the story we broke this morning. join us tomorrow, sunday morning at 8 clom, steve cohen on our panel and senator brown will respond to our report that he was singled out by name in the plan to attack occupy wall street. you can find more on that story and keep up with the show at up.msnbc.com. see you tomorrow. to be more environmentally aware,

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the clock istic ticking. the gop roller coaster. which one of these candidates is rising, which one is falling and what could be the next shoe to drop? chris matthews comparing jfk to president obama. what does he say are the differences? and he offers some compelling advice. must see tv. a new twist in the natalie wood death investigation. one of the people on that boat she fell from has hired an attorney. why? good morning, everyone, and welcome to "weekends with alex witt." we're just approaching 9 a.m. on the east, 6 a.m. out west. let's get to what's happening right now in washington. it all comes down to this weekend's tense negotiations. the supercommittee in congress has to find a way to cut at least $1.2 tll