putin's position is the government in kiev has no legitimacy in law. it's the deaf talking to the deaf. >> stephen cohen gets tonight's last depressing word. thank you very much for joining us. "hardball" starts right now. what side are you on? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in new york. whose side are you on? this is a nasty business politicly. no joke at all people are angry looking for places to show they are angry eand looking for places to blast away at the way things are. this election in florida yesterday was about one word, no.

no work. that is the republican message. why is it hard for democrats to fight that? democrats can see the complexity of our times. they don't think they have all the answers. they like to see deal making between the parties. the democrats know that the health care program could be improved. they are thinking about it, watching it. the republicans, you don't have to think much if you are ticked off. you go to your basics and go back to cutting government spending, attacking health care, hating the president and guarding your values. the democrats, what do they do to win this november? they can focus now to the differences between the two parties, how they help to break in with a higher minimum wage hike which the republicans are fighting. they can focus on their attitude towards women. they can focus on improving things for americans, not just banging on the pipes and yelling no.

they can give a reason for a better life in america while republicans are given a reason for knocking off democrats. chuck todd and howard fineman, editorial director for "huffington post" media group. david jolly beat a very strong democratic challenger, alex sink, in a special election down in tampa, florida. his message was simple. a vote for me is a vote against president obama and the health care law. the democrat talked about working with republicans to fix the problem with the law. turnout was a major issue in jolly's favor, 180,000 people voted yesterday. a little more than half the turnout in 2012 when barack obama wins in the same district. let's do the diagnosis.

chuck todd, looking at the numbers, modest defeat for the democrat in the seat that was what? where would you put this? >> it is a pure swing district. about the exact number he got statewide in florida, alex sink carried this district when she ran for governor in 2010 and that was a race decided by less than a percentage point. it is florida's swingingest swing seat that you could have come up with. it has always been one that democrats for years have said when bill young retires, is no longer there, democrats have a shot at that district. bill young always uniquely had this sort of ability to be a moderate republican and survive in that district, there forever. and so everything seemed -- this is the exact -- not only that, this is the type of seat that democrats, when these seats have

come open democrats win most of them. see up state new york. almost time and again they have been winning these seats that are the 50/50 seats more often than not. that is why to me they were always the slight favor, never mind the candidate advantage they had going in. >> david jolly staked the far right position during the campaign. he said in one debate the united states should intervene military in syria. he wants to repeal roe v wade and questions the impacts humans have on climate change and wants to get rid of the affordable care act and has no workable alternative. it seems to me if the democrats want to take people's temperatures and think about how we feel, they are going to lose. they have to change the subject

from how do you feel in this sort of gloom ey environment the republicans are helping create and say what do you believe in? do you believe in a woman's right to choose minimum wage? do you want the government run that way? or do you want to run by exlobbiest wingers who do anything to dump on obama. seems like they need to change from taking temperatures and feelings to what you believe in. >> it is no doubt going to be a difficult environment for the democrats. so what you do, i think it is just that you say what do you believe as opposed to what do you resent, i think the democrats also need to see what do you need because that is what we as democrats can provide. that is why we are focusing on tangible concrete things like minimum wage and overtime pay as the president did, like health care and so forth. i think in this storm, it is a

stormy season for the democrats, i think they have to focus on tangible things. if they get an ideological war with the republicans i think it is a loser for them. as you say the american public is in a foul mood. they are skeptical about what government can do for them in any way and the democrats need to be concrete if they are going to survive. >> well thought out. when it comes to messaging one side is clear and simple and the other not so much. the republicans are black and white. democrats are trying to learn here. here is alex sink's pitch to voters. let's watch the nuance she described. people want obamacare fixed, not left alone, fixed. >> every place i go people are saying they are sick and tired of washington, this bickering and partisanship. they want somebody with common sense. we have big challenges.

we need people who can work across the aisle. bringing republicans and democrats together is what i have always done. >> her message is that of happiness and working together. she talked about fixing obamacare, not getting rid of it or defending it as it is. now, take a look at her opponent's operation, david jolly. let's watch his ad. >> she supports obamacare. ip don't. i'm david jolly and i approve this message because pinellas needs someone to look out for our interest, not president obama. >> i love when you can learn something in politics. one trying to say we are not perfect and we need to fix this thing. and one guy says he is no good. get rid of this guy. he is out for himself. >> you are talking about health care you are talking about issues the republicans want to talk about. alex sink was already in a defensive crouch.

that is what you have to look at here. you look at the turnout issue. we show in our nbc "wall street journal" poll there is a way for democrats to fight to a draw on health care. it is never a winner yet the way medicare is such a winner now. you can fight it to a draw with that message. but that isn't going to rally the troops and get people the vote. the big spin today from democrats has been this wasn't really a swing seat because in a special election it was republicans plus 12 and all of this. of course, that means the democrats still live there. they still are residents of this district. they just did not vote. that's the question. you are offering a prescription at the start of the show. if i were a democrat i would be going why didn't the democrats come out? that message isn't getting them

to come out. that might get independents to not flee the democratic part right now. the democrats have to come up with something that gets the fannies out of the house. >> howard, some tv shows some people are gung ho for and this is one of them and others you watch and no passion. some people get excited. cable is much more exciting and much more committed than broadcast. people are much more invested in these kinds of programs. you have to look for these numbers. those kinds of commitments of the people watching matter to me. who are the people who say they care about health care? say they care about minimum wage but won't get off their fannies to vote? who are these people? >> i think it is up to the democrats to carefully study the results. as chuck said the swingiest district and state is the perfect laboratory for them.

i would guess that a lot of different kinds of democrats, two types didn't up, working class democrats, blue collared democrats for whom the off year election, sort of an off of the off, special election, they don't come out. they come out in presidential elections, low information voters, detached voters. they don't take their civic duties as seriously. that is one group the president and the democrats have to get. and the other, i think, are probably more upscale democrats who have lost their enthusiasm for barack obama for one reason or another, doesn't have to do with health care necessarily, although the roll out they don't like because they don't like mangled technology or may be mad at the president over syria. >> you are sitting in the white house, you are having a meeting tonight. what did we learn we have to face up to here? what do we do about it? do we change from how do you feel? >> i would also say on a day i think -- this election result

came out on the day that wall street announced 15% bonuses on everybody on wall street, average of $160,000. i wouldn't advocate a theme of populous resentment. we are the people looking out for the rest of america and here is exactly how. to me that is their only hope not to get clobbered. >> give them something to vote against except obama. >> with a tangible way. >> do you think it will come down to fighting another enemy for the democrats? >> if you want to talk tactics i would say there was one asfeekt this mid term that if the democrats could go down which is basically scorch earth it. make it as negative as possible, drive down turnout and hope it is low and hope that on the margins a base turnout essentially gives you the status quo, hold your losses to four or five senate seats.

that is one way to go. there is a another part of the story that i think democrats don't have an answer for and that is the role of outside money. david jolly and the republicans, the republican campaign committee was outspent by alex sink and the democratic campaign committee something like 3.5 to 1. the jolly campaign wasn't very sophisticated on the ground. it was all done by the outside groups or by the rnc. they had to import that stuff in order for him to do a ground game. they bailed him out. so that tells you how toxic the political environment is for democrats. just a little bit of republican outside money and you can bail out a c plus campaign. that's a problem. >> we got to go, guys. >> that would mean tying everything into the coke brothers. >> this is funny about the guy's name. if you are not, vote for jolly.

>> if you want to rise, vote for sink. >> you are as quick as the president. >> coming up, get ready for hillary. november may look tough for democrats but 2016 is looking a lot brighter. today our real expert comes on to tell us how hillary clinton is taking shape as a campaign. it is real and getting genuine. also, a closer look at dianne feinstein's charge that c.i.a. spied on her senate committee supposedly overseeing the agency. and not like the first time a politician has used humor on tv. i get it, it is obama.

why some people, even republicans have seen mitch mcconnell's latest campaign ad are being reminded of a very famous chipmunk. this is "hardball," place for politics.

the george washington bridge lane closure continues to take its toll on governor chris christie. for the first time since taking office christie's disapproval rating is higher than his approval rating. a new poll showed 41% approve and 44% disapprove. those numbers are reversed from our poll in october before the bridge scandal hit.

welcome back to "hardball." while 2014 might newt be shaping up right now as too good for the democrats, 2016 may look very different as now. we may be seeing hillary clinton's real campaign beginning to emerge. while the republican race remains a jungleal for 2016 the democrat side has a campaign consolidating nearly the entire party around one likely candidate. hillary supporters, donors have united with barack obama's to develop a rare and unmatched campaign apparatus. already clinton loyalist told mark halpern our goal is to build a ferrari. and reports hillary clinton is the best choice to defend the obama legacy. great people to have on right now.

mark, it's great to see this reporting already. tell us what is different now and what you have been able to report here about the people who want hillary clinton to be president and who are working on it. what is developing here that wasn't before? >> there is a lot of things involving personality and process. this superpack is the first in the history to not have the model of million dollar fat cat checks for television ads, mostly negative ads. this is a different model, mostly grass roots. some say come on, it is all for show, full employment act. they have lofty goals as i report in "time" magazine for 5 million supporters. at the end of this year if they achieve that goal think about what those numbers will be like compared to every republican and democrat running combined. it will be a formidable grass roots.

she is grateful for this. she is publicly silent but told friends she sees what they are doing, is grateful for it and recognizes it is exactly what she lacked last time against barack obama. >> one thing about bill clinton he really learns. if somebody doesn't like him he tries to make friends. he is always reaching out. is she learning from the way that before it was clear to them it was clear to the expert here that it was good the numbers were there for obama and weren't going to be there for hillary because obama didn't go to the states with the electoral delegates but went to states that may not be ready to vote democrat in general and before she knew it it was all over. has she learned from that technique of getting the delegates as the number one

goal? >> learning from that lesson which is to recruit in all 50 states. if she runs and a minor candidate runs against her, say she wins the state 70-30 that could be a loss. another lesson she learns not just all 50 states for the delegates but use nomination fight to be ready. they are recruiting in new hampshire but missouri and montana. she is the nominee. it is a strategy. part of why i report president obama is fine with it is he recognizes the way he won was to build the grass roots movement over time. hillary clinton can't wait until after mid terms to do this. so he has accepted talking to aides. let her build this over time.

if she doesn't run it can be turned to another democrat. that is an important lesson for them to learn and an extraordinary advantage for her if they pull it off for the nomination. >> this is fascinating to get a chance to ask you about this, reporting out of washington. michelle obama is a sphinx when it comes to political thinking. everybody likes her, she has great numbers. every time i bump into her i find her great and charming to meet with. i have no idea how she thinks. the ideat that she is a militant isn't clear at all. i want hillary clinton to be the strongest successor to my husband. can you report that? is that something you can see and report on? >> well, i think it is clear that both president obama and michelle obama seem to be on the same page with that.

remember as soon as hillary clinton was finished with secretary of state her first interview was side by side with president obama almost as if he was passing the baton and giving the okay on not only on how he felt she did at state and looking forward to what she might do after. i know in reporting on some of the things that mark halperin is reporting on, one thing is how to build a black tire wall. remember that was really why barack obama in 2008 was able to beat hillary clinton. he was able to get those african-american voters to get on board with his candidacy. one thing they have done is focus on african-american women. they have gone to hair shows in atlanta, georgia. they have been down in south carolina where the cost is $20.16. they have had events here in washington. they had an eevent last week

called her voice, her values, our improvement. they are trying to wrap her into this legacy. >> what do you get for $20? >> you get entree to an event and rub shoulders. >> it is a general admission thing. do you think you could see based on what you can report that the first lady, current first lady might be campaigning with hillary in 2016 among african-american women, especially. >> what a journey this has been in terms of michelle obama. early on in the primary she was not saying nice things about hillary clinton talking about needing to turn the page from the clinton's. i can aimagen both of those powerful women should hillary clinton decide to run. >> if you are near an airport

get a copy of "time" magazine. i love moving the months off the calendar to get to 2016. up next first ted cruz with green eggs and ham. now another dr. seuss citing. this is "hardball." these don't look clean. [ doorbell rings ] the johnsons! stall them.

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30 democratic senators held an all-night talk-a-thon. that sounds exciting. an all-night talk-a-thon on the floor of the senate to highlight the impacts of climate change. that 14 hours of climate change talk or as al gore calls it, a first date. you look hot but not as hot as the earth is getting.

take a look at these charts. this is where our love can go. >> great. time for sideshow. the all nighter senate democrats finish yesterday morning. the highlight was yet another dr. seuss reading. it wasn't "green eggs and ham." this time it was "the lorax". next up funny man jimmy kimmal had rick perry on. despite being on home turf the initial reception was pretty icy. >> i thought here in austin you would get a favorable response. what have you done to make these people dislike you so intensely? >> i tell people austin is kind of the blueberry in the tomato soup in the state, if you will. it's a little different than the rest of the place.

they do their part at keeping austin weird. >> is that why you are not running for governor again? >> after 14 years of this kind of love it is all good. >> finally senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, his latest campaign ad has people wondering what he is up to. the video features a sound track to little elves. it makes some republicans uncomfortable. characterized it as the worst campaign ad with the creepiest opening and inspired a parody based on dramatic chipmunk that racked up over 40 million hits. here for your viewing pleasure is the dramatic mitch video

along side the legendary dramatic chipmunk. ♪ well, up next dianne feinstein's accusation that the c.i.a. spied on the senate intelligence committee. my big question tonight, what is it that the c.i.a. doesn't want us to know? that is a big question that will always haunt us. you are watching "hardball." [ male announcer ] start engine.

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welcome back to "hardball." when senator dianne feinstein of california charged the c.i.a. of spying on the committee that was investigating the c.i.a. what does the agency want to hide from us. we got an answer from mark udall. he wants it made public. >> when i first went on the

committee some three years ago i went about understanding the c.i.a.'s program of interrogation which was brutal, ineffective, clumsy, filled with flaws. i call it torture. we have been pushing ever since to get this report released and clear the record. we know in america when we acknowledge our mistakes we are stronger for it. >> what is it the c.i.a. doesn't want the public to get across to us. senior white house reporter for politico. the american people are not proud of torture. they are not very happy at least on center and left about the continued existence of gitmo. they don't like some of the drone stuff. there are things they don't think america should be doing because it is not what we stand for.

what is the c.i.a.'s mission? to keep us from knowing what it does? >> this has been a battle going on for years. if you listen to what dianne feinstein said in the beginning of her remarks back in 2009 the committee learned that what the c.i.a. told the committee about the torture program was not true, was wrong and launched this big investigation to start this. it was all started because they felt they were misled by the c.i.a. if you listen to what mark udall said last night on the network and what dianne feinstein said on the senate floor, they are saying there is significant wrong doing in the program and have this in the c.i.a.'s own records that were sort of stolen back. this is all about the c.i.a. doesn't want it to come out that the program went off the rails and perhaps one of the greatest sins that while creating torture it didn't produce the

information. we have dick cheney and others say this was necessary, this worked. that is all we had to put up with it. turns out maybe from the c.i.a.'s own records that it didn't work and wasn't done well and the c.i.a. seems to be trying very hard to hide this not just from the public but from the committee in charge of overseeing the c.i.a. >> i have always respected dianne feinstein. she is no lefty, she is a grown up, very professional. i have watched her over the years. she comes from law enforcement. he is for real. she is pro c.i.a. what is the c.i.a. trying to hide from her so it can be hidden from the public? >> i think david really hit on it. it is one thing to have people outside the agency criticize the program and say it didn't work. to have people inside the c.i.a., people conducting the

review, the panetta review sayt that this program didn't actually keep america safe, that has been the refuge of those who supported this. >> don't we have oversight for a reason to spank agencies now and then? is this just institutional self defense here? >> i think a lot of it is institutional self defense. you have to think about what an awkward position c.i.a. director is in here. he was passed over for the post of c.i.a. director at the beginning of the obama administration because he was seen as too close to this interrogation torture program. now he is right in the middle of this having to figure out how to wade a path through between the agency personnel that he is trying to defend thrks white house, feinstein and history here very, very difficult for him to extract himself from this situation. >> i hear the president loves this guy. senator feinstein vowed to make sure her report goes public and characterized the program as unamerican.

here she is yesterday. >> we are not going to stop. i intend to move to have the summary of the report sent to the president for declassification and release to the american people. the white house has indicated publicly and to me personally that it supports declassification and release. if the senate can declassify this report we will be able to ensure that an unamerican, brutal program of detention and interrogation will never again be considered or permitted. >> that is what u.s. senator is supposed to be like. david, i have complete faith in her. can she win this fight and get this stuff took back after they have gotten their hands on it. they somehow reached back into the files and pulled it out again somehow.

>> we have the 6,300 page report is that senate intelligence committee has completed that incorporates a lot of what was stolen back by the c.i.a. so if the report comes out we'll know what went on. the big issue here and di-fias they call her on the hill got to this saying how we resolve this will determine whether we can do effective oversight of intelligence community. we have an open democratic government here. the only reason we let people do things secretly for national security reasons because we have checks and balances. we let the members of congress represent us peones and have oversight. she raised the question yesterday whether they can do this. if you can't have effective oversight then there is no rationale for the national security state and everything crumbles. a lot is at stake here. >> created intelligence

committee because he didn't want this stuff floating in his head. these committees are supposed to act on what they get briefed on and report what needs to be reported to the public. feinstein, who wins this fight? feinstein or c.i.a. >> i think feinstein will win the fight. press secretary wouldn't say who president obama agrees with. he has seen the senate report at least the draft of it and the c.i.a. response and releasing it will close the chapter in u.s. history. president won't say who he thinks is right. continue to lay the versions of the truth out and hope the question goes away. >> it is not going away here. the american people care about this stuff a lot. these people are operating in our name. they are protecting our country. thank you for joining us. up next, why are conservatives so upset that

president obama did that funny thing in "between the ferns" with zach galifianakis? who gives a rat's butt? we are going to argue about it. this is "hardball." [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.

here comes the big dog. bill clinton repaying his debt to margery.

she is running for her house seat she lost 20 years ago after she gave the decisive voice to pass the budget. now president clinton is headlining for her. chelsea clinton is married to the son of her. "hardball" back after this.

the law means that insurers can't discriminate against you if you have a pre-existing condition anymore. >> what about this, though? >> that's disgusting. how long have you had that? >> just four months. >> really? >> spider bites. i got attacked by spiders.

>> you need to get that checked. you need to get on healthcare.gov. that is one of the most disgusting things i have seen. >> is your plug finally over? >> i suppose so. >> which country were you rooting for in the winter olympics? >> i'm the president of the united states. what do you think? >> it is pretty dry and pretty good. yesterday the website posted the interview a piece president obama conducted by actor/comedian zach galifianakis. the video igniting 13 million views online and counting. the white house says it has resulted in 54,000 referrals to healthcare.gov. the right wing can't help themselves and see it as another chance to poke at the president. u.s. congressman adrian smith from nebraska tweeted the

president jokes with zach galifianakis about obamacare and won't meet with republicans to discuss common sense health care solutions. bill o'reilly suggested it would hurt obama's standing with putin. >> looks like putin believes the president is a lightweight. will a comedy video counter that? just asking. all i can tell you is abe lincoln would not have done it. >> abe lincoln would not have worked for fox. congressman randy weber of texas said the president should be spending more time on benghazi. instead of wasting time with a parody interview should be focused on finding answers regarding benghazi. her column today titled president obama's unbecoming performance and co-host of the cycle. kathleen, you young about to be great man.

if either one of you get serious i'm going to get upset here. make a light -- by the way, always think if this was the other party would you be making the same critique? in other words, is it good for the goose, good for the gander? or is this only something you take a shot at if it's someone on the other side of the spectrum? kathleen? the truth sear rum first for you. would you be saying the same thing if this were a republican who had done the precise same thing? >> absolutely, chris. come on, you know me better than that, and i cannot be lined up in the same paragraph with people like bill o'reilly or the far right wing, come on. and i'm an equal opportunity offender, i try my best to be critical of everyone. >> your critique is? >> my critique is, that he -- actually, you didn't read my column. >> i'm in new york.

>> get a newspaper in new york i can read. i read all the new york newspapers this morning, and the kathleen parker, brilliantly syndicated columnist said don't blame me. go ahead. >> the bottom line, i decided he was showing putin how unseriously he takes him, right? so he's just clearly going to kickback and have a good time. no, look, i can see where -- >> do you think putin pays attention to these kinds of things? >> of course not, although they must be paying attention tonight because everyone in the u.s. is talking about it, which is shocking to me really that we've taken all this time. that for me was column number 3,017. >> it was a bad thing for the president to do? >> i think, you know, there are two -- >> i want to get a verdict, yes or no, bad thing for him to do. >> i think whenever there's the word crisis in the news, and we're involved right now with what's going on in the ukraine and crimea, it's not the best time. if i were on the team advising

the president, i would say, let's put this off a few weeks, you really are setting yourself up for the criticism he's receiving. >> i will extend that a little further and interject, you don't know what your lead time is, you do something like this, it comes out in the middle of a crisis, really just at the edge of one, maybe that is a risky business -- is it worth the risk for the president to take the comedic step given the chance for a crisis to be emerging? >> you can argue every time a public official tries to tell a joke they're taking a risk this is a big rolling joke, it's got a serious benefit to the white house, they argue as you mention, 13 million viewers, look, that is most of the top rated comedy shows on tv all week, okay? they've reached a lot of people. they've got referrals, that's tens of thousands more people than would normally be up there. we've had these debates throughout history, when nixon went on "laugh-in" and jack paar and johnny carson.

>> president's have to write letters to mothers when their sons and daughters are killed, there needs to be a certain level of gravity in the office, we all know that, because of the nature of the commander in chief, if nothing else. does the president -- jimmy carter gave it the prestige of hail to the chief. especially hail to the chief, i think it was a bone headed decision. don't the presidents have to maintain a measure of self-regard because the severity of the decisions they have to make, so there is a bottom line of how low they can go in terms of comedic -- was this a case of that, or was this sophisticated humor that only the young people got anyway, so it didn't hurt? >> i think it is generational, at least the humor part of it, i think you hit on an important part, the president always has to be self-aware, and aware of his role in the world. not only does he represent all of us, every day, with

everything he says and does, but the world still looks to us, and looks to the president of the united states as the leader of the free world as we like to say, and it's true. and you know, when you act a little goofy, have you to kind of weigh it, i know they must have done that, here are the pros and get these people to sign up, here are the cons and i don't know how that comes out. >> i hear you on that kathleen, but we know the president was telling jokes at the annual correspondents dinner, ultimately the president is able to do light, ceremonial, the range of things that a public official does, and then when it's time to put on the hard hat and get to work or oversea something, he does that as well, i don't think there's anything unique about this, it's just newer to folks who have never seen between two ferns before. i've seen these videos, the one with natalie portman is funny. >> he is the president, and i wonder where my two ferns are, i would feel much better if i were

between two ferns. >> ari, go to work. >> thank you. we'll be right back after this. so i get invited to quite a few family gatherings. heck, i saved judith here a fortune with discounts like safe driver, multi-car, paperless. you make a mighty fine missus, m'lady. i'm not saying mark's thrifty. let's just say, i saved him $519, and it certainly didn't go toward that ring. am i right? [ laughs ] [ dance music playing ] so visit progressive.com today. i call this one "the robox."

let me finish tonight with this, i'm up in new york tonight to be inducted into the irish american hall of fame. it's quite an honor. thanks to irish american magazine, i spoke of having

grown up in a family that represents all three sides of the trinity, the catholic of my mother's family, the shields of the conroys and the protestant irish side. an english immigrant grandfather in my family. i grew up with another grandfather who never had a drink in his life because he saw the damage it had done to our people. what i didn't get to today in my acceptance is how the love of us, the children of this union, protestant and catholic united all of us, how we found not just peace but love in a family that came from irish traditions. this is why i was so happy to cover the good friday agreement that ended the troubles in ireland. i'm still hopeful for peace in ireland and in god's good time unity. i can't thank the folks enough who gave me this honor, the fact that bill o'reilly joined me in

receiving it takes away none of that honor. in his own way, he too deserves recognition. that's hardball for now thanks for joining us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york, the dust has settled after the special election in florida's 13th district. we learn what the results of the first race of the year tell us. obama lost, the democrats lost any chance of taking the house, that republicans will clean up in the midterms, or maybe we learned something else. maybe we learned how fraudulent the entire conservative uprising of the obama careers has been since the beginning. >> folks, i got very good news tonight.