a u.n. school compound this morning killed at least 15. >> this is the third time that a school shelter has been hit by israel. >> a few hours ago incoming rockets coming from gaza were intercepted. >> this conflict only perpetuates the extremists on both sides. >> secretary kerry is in cairo trying to negotiate a cease-fire. >> bloomberg says that it was giving a win to hamas. >> we must distinguish near hamas. >> i'm opposed to their ideology. >> hamas is a fascist organization oppressing women, oppressing christians and that attack israel for no good reason. israel has to make the first move. it is occupying power. >> hamas is using human shields and it's the people caught in the middle are the people of gas. >> both leaders have got to step back and ask why did the negotiations fail. ♪ ♪

good afternoon, i'm luke ruse russert in for alex wagner. it's been one week since israel's ground invasion of gaza began and no sign of a cease-fire. a u.n. school where hundreds of displaced palestinian civilians were taking shelter came under shell fire. reporters at the scene describe pools of blood on the ground, screaming and scores of crying families being rushed to the hospital. 15 people were reportedly killed in the attack including three children. this was the third time that u.n. shelters set up in schools have been struck by shell fire since the con flick began. u.n. secretary-general ban ki-moon said he was, quote, appalled by the attack although the cause of strike is still unclear. u.n. officials said they gave the israeli military precise coordinates for the cool and made it clear civilians were being sheltered there. they tried to coordinate with the israeli army, a window for civilians to leave the school that it was never granted. israeli officials deny this claim and gave a four-hour evacuation period. over the past two weeks, rockets presumably hidden by hamas have

been discovered in two different u.n. schools in gaza. israeli defense forces say 46 rockets have been fired out of gas into israeli territory today. 14 of them were intercepted by the iron dome. late last night the faa lifted its ban on flights to and from tel aviv. they would resume all flights to israel. secretary of state john kerry is still in cairo working toward a cease-fire. the state department said today that kerry has been working the phones, but a senior u.s. official told reuters that gaps remain between the parties and that kerry will not stay in the middle east indefinitely. it's expected to stay in cairo, though, at least until tomorrow morning. over the past 17 days, 788 palestinians and 35 israelis have been killed and more than 140,000 gasans have been displaced from their homes. joining me from washington is democratic congressman from new york 16th district elliott angle

and with the house foreign affairs committee. thank you for being on the program. >> thank you, luke, my pleasure. >> we see the horrific news that the school was shelled today and we don't know if israel or hamas was responsible for that and we see it mounting into the 700s and dozens of israeli soldiers and a few civilians have been killed and this all stems from three israeli teenagers getting kids napped and shows no sign of ending. what is to be made out of all of this and where is an endgame here, congressman from where we started three israeli teenagers getting kidnapped with all of this death and devastation. >> about a week ago, egypt tried to broker what it called a cease-fire. israel accepted the cease-fire and hamas did not. you can't have it both ways. if you don't accept an unconditional cease-fire and then your people are killed then i think you're partially to blame and so this is a horrific thing. war is always horrific. it's not a pretty picture, but i

think that hamas for years has been using its people as human shields, building its bomb factories and its missile launchers and heavily civilian population even as you reported, missiles were found in u.n. schools in the gaza strip. so i think that, you know, it can't be both ways. we hear a lot about the civilians being killed and it's a terrible tragedy, but even more civilians are being killed every day in syria and we don't hear about that at all. it's only when israel tries to defend itself against rocket attacks coming in for the past several years, virtually every day being fired at its citizens and its civilians, israel finally said enough is enough. >> in terms of moving toward a peaceful solution, obviously, hamas is distrustful of the new regime in egypt and why they do not want to engage in the cease-fire brokered there.

hamas is on its last legs politically and they looked toward the intervention of trying to gain civilian support for their actions and they do receive that support, interestingly enough from the west bank and more moderate area. is israel playing into their hand by prolonging this conflict and seeing their death tolls rise on their side? >> look, i personally am for a two-state solution for the israeli palestinian conflict and a two-state side by side and the palestinian state and the jewish state living in peace and harmony. israel doesn't have a war with the palestinian people and it has a war with hamas which is a terrorist group. we recognize israel's right to exist and it's not a legitimate nation and it wants to pushes rail into the sea and i don't know how israel is supposed to negotiate with an entity that denies its right to exist. >> it's something secretary kerry will be working on tomorrow and hopefully there will be some progress. congressman eliot engel, thank

you very much for joining us. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> joining me now is executive director of human rights ro, kenneth roth and bernard abishe. i'll start with you, ken. we're now starting to see this conflict boil into where a lot of civilians and on the palestinian side are being killed and you're hearing families being displaced and the u.n. is reportedly witnessing war crimes being carried out by both sides and what does that mean for the future of the conflict if the u.n. moves forward and says there are a lot of war crimes being committed here, but possibly by the united states' ally israel. >> there are war crimes being committed by both sides. hamas is committing war crimes by firing rockets into populated areas of israel. israel is committing war crimes repeatedly by targeting civilian structures and by not paying sufficient attention to identifying military targets before they shoot with the consequence of killing children on the beach, bombing basically

a cafe on the beach where people were assembled to watch the world cup, attacking children feeding ducks on their roof, attacking a house where people had gathered to break the ramadan fast killing 25 people. so the issue is not, you know, who is right to be at war and who is not. who is abiding by a proposed cease-fire and not, but rather who is following the laws of war which are designed to spare civilians the consequence of war and we see that boeing sides have repeatedly violated those. >> professor, i would like to point out something to you, what do you believe is the strategy here? israel is saying they're trying to move to destroy these tunnels that hamas has been using to get into israel and incite fear and terrorism, but it seems this particularly aggressive action by israel is nentanyahu is tryig to prove a point. they're sick and tired of trying

to negotiate a status quo for peace. what is israel trying to claim by prolonging this conflict that derived by three teenagers being kidnapped and killed a few weeks ago. >> just to be clear. they were never negotiating with hamas. they were negotiating with the palestinian authority. >> i'm sorry. >> which actually had hamas in a bit of a corner about two months ago and forced hamas to ak sep the legitimacy of the palestinian authority in negotiations and in taking the palestinian cause to the international arena, to the u.n. and even to the international criminal court. so, you know, israel has an interlocutor. it it isn't hamas. it never was hamas, but hamas was prepared at least in so far as it was forced to accept the palestinian authority's capacity

to negotiate. i think right now on the israeli side, you know, everyone is suffering from a bit of what might be called with sad irony, tunnel vision. once 32 soldiers are dead, the conflict has to mean something and people don't have to give up their sons for nothing and what i fear is happening is that the the country is starting to lock on to this idea that the war aims are now to destroy the tunnels leading from gaza leading into israel and they discovered many more than what they expected to find and they also are speaking now after having debriefed a bunch of hamas fighters that there was a planned attack through these tunnels which i think has sent a shudder through the israeli population. >> and and now i fear --

>> go ahead. >> go ahead? >> yeah. >> well, i fear that the israeli government now cannot back down from completing the job it's now set for itself which means that it's going to turn down any offer of a cease-fire which is clearly what we want in order to stop all of this madness. >> correct. >> and ken, i want to bring that over to you because this is something that i -- when we first started covering this earlier in the week where conflict was moving, you're seeing both sides really dig in. israel saying we want to eliminate all of these tunnels as the professor was just saying. you're seeing a lot of palestinians in gaza saying we don't want to go back to the status quo. it was horrific for us, it was sewage in the streets and eight hours of power and we were trapped like rodents and we don't want to go back to that. how was peace brokered when both sides are saying, we don't want to go back to the status quo of three weeks ago. we want much more for ourselves.

>> we have the prospects of peace are advanced. he was basically reading from the israeli government talking points which are a bunch of diversionary points. things are worse in syria, true, but that doesn't allow israel attacking civilian structures or paying inadequate care to avoiding attacking civilians. hamas using human shields, zero evidence of that. that requires of using force and palestinians -- >> there have been reports of rockets being held in school areas by hamas. >> no question that hamas is sometimes endangering civilians, but that is not using them as human shields which is to force them to stay there. that's simply not happening. the argument that hamas didn't accept the cease-fire, well, they may or may not be right about that, but that doesn't give israel justification to ignore the geneva conventions and to target civilian struck urs. why are they attacking

hospitals? there was no hamas fighter near the hospital? why are they attacking houses? because they say a militant lived there, that's not justification. >> sadly, this is a conversation that i peel will continue for a few weeks after that. >> kenneth roth and bernard avishai, take care. >> arizona asks for a botched execution states. they will join me discussing the case of joseph rudolph wood and what it means to the world of lethal injection. upplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. i'm doubly impressed! phillips' digestive health. a daily probiotic. [ thud ] visit tripadvisor rome. with millions of reviews, tripadvisor makes any destination better.

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president obama is speaking now at the los angeles trade technical college. let's listen in. remarks expected to be about the minimum wage. >> -- helping to train people to

get the kinds of jobs that we want and an opportunity for people that don't have it. so catrice, thank you so much. we're proud of you. my understanding, we understand, we also have a congresswoman karen bass is here. where's karen? we love karen. [ cheers and applause ] america -- there's karen bass. we have america's secretary of labor tom perez is here. give tom a big round of applause and we want to thank l.a. trade technical college for your hospitality. [ cheers and applause ] you know, this is a school that does good work helping the unemployed retrain for new careers and that's one of things i want to talk about today. i -- i love you back. [ cheers and applause ] you know, i always love being in

california. i spent a couple of good years in college myself. that's right. i see tigers. earlier today i sat down with catrice and a few californians who wrote to me. i get letters from folks all across the the country, and i read them every night and folks tell me their stories about their worries and their hopes and hardships and successes, some say i'm doing a good job. some say i'm an idiot. which lets me know i'm getting a representative sample, but in addition to catrice, a young woman named katie caster was there, and she told me about her life. she grew up in a working-class neighborhood in wisconsin. her parents taught her to value education, that that was going to be the the ticket to the middle class. first in her family to go to college, moved on to get her masters degree from pepperdine

state out of california, and she wrote to tell me that she's always played by the rules, valued education ask workand wo hard and she felt trapped because no matter how hard she worked she couldn't get ahead. if earning an education doesn't open doors for someone like me to rise above my socioeconomic class what does that say about our country? what does that say about our values, she asked? i try not to be cynical, but one shouldn't have to be rich or from a wealthy family in order to pay their bills, save some money, have fun, enjoy life. i didn't write this letter to complain, i wrote because i don't know what else to do and as the president of my country i hope you would listen to my story. lchl l.a., i'm shehere because i am listening to katie's story and i'm listening to americans across the country, everyone working their tail off, believes in the american dream and just upons a chance to build a decent

life for themselves and their family and you are why i ran for president in the first place and i'm always going to be listening to you. [ cheers and applause ] the crisis that hit near the end of that campaign back in 2008 cost millions of americans their jobs and their homes and their sense of security, but our businesses have added 10 million new jobs over the past 52 months. the unemployment rate is at its lowest rate since september 2008 and this past year we saw one of the fastest drops in nearly 30 years in the unemployment rate. the decisions we made not only to rescue the economy, rescue the auto industry, but to rebuild it on a new foundation, those decisions are paying off. we're more energy independent, the world's number one oil and gas producer is not russia, it's not saudi arabia.

it's the united states of america. [ cheers and applause ] we've reduced our carbon pollution over the past eight years more than any country on earth. you saw an "l.a. times kwoe "headline, that said 2014 on to the hottest start on record for california. that's why we have to worry about climate change. we've tripled the elect rhys the we're getting from wind power, generating enough last year to power every home in california. we now generate ten times the solar electricity, creating tens of thousand of of jobs across the country. california so far heads rest of the country in solar that earlier this year solar power meant 18% of the power demand one day and that's the kind of progress and leadership we need. [ cheers and applause ] >> but it's not just the energy sector and education. our high school graduation rate is at a record high.

the latino dropout rate has been cut in half since 2008. [ cheers and applause ] more young people are earning their college degrees than ever before. meanwhile, 401(k)s have restored their value, fewer homes are under water, millions more families have the peace of mind of affordable health care when you need it because we did pass the affordable care act. [ applause ] >> none of this was an accident. we made some good decisions, but we also sought resilience and the resolve of the american people and because of that we've recovered faster. we've gone farther than almost any country on earth in the economic crisis. for the if first time in almost a decade, business leaders claim the number one place to invest is not china, it's the united states of america and our lead is growing. [ cheers and applause ]

so usa. >> usa! usa! usa! so we have every reason to be optimistic about america. we hold all of the best cards. we've got the best hand, but the decisions we make now are going to determine whether or not working americans like katie continue to feel trapped or whether they get ahead, whether the economic gains that we make just go to a few at the top or they help to grow an economy and grow incomes and grow middle class opportunities for everybody and that's what's at stake right now, making sure our economy works for every working american. that's why i ran for president. that's what i'm focused on every day. [ applause ] this is the challenge of our time. we can't be distracted. and if you're -- if you're in

public office and you don't have an answer for somebody like katie, if you're not thinking about her and folks who are working hard, but still struggling every day, why are you in public service? today i'm here to focus on one thing we should be doing which is training more americans to fill the jobs that we created. right now there are more job openings in america than any time since 2007. that doesn't always make headlines. it's know sexy so the news doesn't report it, but it's a big deal. and the job training programs can help folks who fell on hard times in the recession, help them find a solid path back to the middle class, and i'm always impressed by people who have the courage to go back to school especially later in life. [ applause ] last month in minnesota i met a woman named rerebecca, wonderful

young woman. a few years ago she was waiting tables and she enrolled in a community college, and retrained as a new career and today she loves her job as an accountant. jill biden teaches in a community college. a lot of her students are in their 30s. one of the women i met with this morning wrote me she's getting ready to get back in the game at 60, but older workers like her need a little support. she wrote we are a great investment and we want to be part of the workforce and if you met joan you'd want to hire her because she is sharp. so americans are the best workers in the world if we're given a chance, if we work together we can help more of our fellow citizens learn the skills that growing fields require in high-tech manufacturing, and clean energy and information technology and in health care. now the good news is erle willier this week i signed a

bipartisan bill into law that would help communities update and invest in job training programs like these, and i've got to say i had so much fun actually signing a bipartisan bill from congress, i said why don't you do it more often? why don't you focus on getting some stuff done for the american people? it feels good. so my administration has taken some steps on our own. we've rallied employers to give the long-term unemployed a fair shot at a job. we're offering grants to community colleges that work with companies to expand apprentice ships. we're helping cities identify fields with job openings and custom-tailor programs to earn the skills employers are looking for right now, whether it's welding metals or coating computers. if your job has been stamped obsolete or shipped overseas or displaced by new technology your country should help train you to

land an even better job in the future and that's something we can do if we work together. [ applause ] so this is just some of what we should be doing to help strengthen the middle class and help americans who are working to join the middle class, and what i keep hearing from folks across the country is if congress had the same priorities that most americans did, if they felt the same urgency that you feel in your own lives we'd be helping more families right now. i mean, think about what congress hasn't done despite the fact that i've been pushing them to do it. congress won't act to make sure a woman gets fair pay. why not? i went ahead and made sure more women had the protections for fair pay in the workplace because i believe equal pay should mean earning call work and when women succeed america succeeds. why isn't congress doing something? i get you. i understand that.

congress won't act to help more young people like katie manage their student loan debt. i acted to give nearly 5 million americans to cap their payments at 10% of their income. i don't want future leaders saddled with debt they can't pay before they've even started off in life why -- why don't we see house republicans working with democrats who have said we're behind making student loans more affordable? [ cheers and applause ] today marks exactly five years since the last time the minimum wage went up in this country. that's too long between raises for a lot of americans. i've done what i can by requiring federal contractors to pay their employers of $10.10 an hour and since the first time i asked congress to raise the minimum wage, 13 states in d.c.

have gone ahead and raise said theirs. here's something interesting. states that increased the minimum wage this year have seen higher job growth than those who didn't raise the minimum wage. america deserves a raise and it would be good for those workers and good for business. [ applause ] so i'm not going to stop trying to work with democrats and republicans to make a difference in your lives, but i've got to call things as they are. what's really going on is that republicans in congress are directly blocking policies that would help millions of americans. they are promoting policies that harm millions of americans. just this year, on the other hand, they voted to give another massive tax cut to the wealthiest americans. just last week they voted to gut the rules we put in place to make sure big banks and credit card companies couldn't hurt consumers and cause another crisis. they're going in the wrong

direction. our economy does not grow from the top down, it grows from the middle class out. we do better when middle-class families and folks who are working hard to get in the middle class have a chance. so -- so just in case some republicans are listening, let me give you an example of where democrats and republicans should be able to work together to make a difference. i want everybody to pay attention to this. right now our businesses are creating jobs, more companies are choosing to bring jobs back to america, but there is another trend that is a threat to us. even as corporate profits are higher than ever, there is a small, but growing group of big corporations that are fleeing the country to get out of paying taxes. wep -- hold on a second, i said fleeing the country, but they're not actually doing that. they're not actually going anywhere. they're keeping most of their

business here. they're keeping usually their headquarters here in the u.s. they don't want to give up the best evers and the best military and all of the advantages of operating in the united states. they just don't want to pay for it. so they're technically renouncing their u.s. citizenship. they're declaring their base some place else even though most of the operations are here. you know, some people are calling these companies corporate deserters, and it's only a few big corporations so far. the vast majority of american businesses play by the rules, but these companies are cherry picking the rules and it damages the country's finances. it adds to the deficit. it makes it harder to invest in things like job training that help keep america growing. it sticks you with the tab to make up for what they're stashing offshore through their evasive tax policies. now here, the problem is this loophole they're using in the

tax laws is actually legal. it is so simple and so lucrative, one corporate attorney said it's like the holy grail of tax avoidance schemes. my attitude is i don't care if it's legal. it's wrong. and my attitude is that nobody begrudges our companies from turning our profit. we want them to be profitable and in a global economy there's nothing wrong with companies expanding to foreign markets, but you don't get to pick the tax rate you pay. folks, if you're a secretary or you're a construction worker, you don't say, you know what? i feel like paying a little less so let me -- you don't get a chance to do that. these companies shouldn't either, and the practice they're engaging is the same kind of behavior that keeps middle class and working class families working harder and harder just to keep up. the good news is there is a way to change this. we could end this through tax reform that lowers the corporate rate, closes the loopholes and

limp i p simplifies the -- >> that was president obama speaking about the economy at the los angeles trade technical college, very much a campaign-style speech talking about raising the minimum wage, talking about job retraining programs that his administration supports and trying to move his economic message, sounds obviously lovely to the democrats there in the audience and the president's supporters that face an uphill battle in congress. a programming note, next hour, president obama sits down with cnbc's steve liesman at 5:00 p.m. eastern on cnbc. you don't want to miss that. coming up next is a very special segment, they discuss the death penalty in last night's lethal injection gone wrong. that's next on "now." if i can impart one lesson to a

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hours to execute this man, joseph r. wood iii yard. woods' execution began at 1:52 pchl m. local time for the first seven minutes they went according to plan. woods closed his eyes and went to sleep and it didn't stay that way. this is how arizona public reporter michael kiefer, an eyewitness describes the execution. >> and he started gasps and he did, he gasped for more than an hour and a half and when a doctor would come in to check his consciousness he would turn the the mike on and you could hear a deep, snoring, sucking air sound and this went on for more than an hour and a half. the whole process took probably -- well, you know, about two hours from start to finish. one wondered if someone was going come in and stop the procedure because troy and i were looking at each other saying he's not dying. >> joseph wood was pronounced dead at 3:49 p.m., just shy of two hours after the botched

execution began. woods' execution lasted so long that his lawyers filed an emergency appeal to stop the execution while he was on the the gurney. they even called supreme court justice anthony kennedy to urge him to halt the procedure. justice kennedy refused. today's spokesman for jan brewer announced a full review of the process and protocols along with an independent autopsy and toxology study. how can an execution using tried and true lethal drugs go so horribly wrong. it turns out those drugs aren't so tried and true. in oklahoma, clayton locket struggle, and the gruesome execution was the same one used on joe wood last night. joining me now is sister helen persian, author of "dead man walking kwoe "and the executive director of the national coalition to abolish the death penalty diana tierney.

>> one of the things that jumped out to me is that an appeals court has said to arizona, no, we don't want you to go forward on this execution because the inmate has the right to know which chemicals are going to be used to eventually kill them. the supreme court then overturned that. we seem to be now in a period in america where the chemicals u d used -- >> it was predictable and avoidable. you are always going to have the kind of disasters that we saw in oklahoma and arizona as long as the government is operating under secrecy and the other factor that we see in here which is even more disturbing is that the federal courts seem to be washing their hands. this isn't an academic exercise. oversight is necessary. these governments don't know what they're doing and so the adverse aa adversarial property are

critical to make sure they don't violate the constitution. >> sister helen, america is a unique place when it comes to the death penalty. we're the only g-7 that still executes our own citizens and we're right up there in iran and china and other countries that do this type of thing. the death penalty has not proven to be a deterrent. it's certainly not cost effective. appeals cost more for someone in prison for their life. this sort of moral argument always seems to be lost. i'm shocked as a catholic and when it comes to contraception, an eye for an eye still seems to permeate really far in the united states. >> yes. i have to tell you that's really changing in the people, though. 1996, 80% of catholics supported the death penalty. 78% of americans, it's dropped radically now among catholics especially are getting the connection with pro-life and

among americans. there's a majority now when they've given them the question and death penalty of life without parole. a majority will choose life without parole. what we're coming to face like here with lethal injection that we don't know what drugs are used. there's no transparency to the process. the supreme court allowing this. i lay all of these problems in the lap of the supreme court of the united states who put the death penalty back saying suppose lead we want to get the worst of the worst criminals, but the ones who get chosen is a lottery. it's which state did you do it in? is it a killing state? who did you kill and if you have money for a good attorney and not all these packers make it a lottery and now which drugs are you going to use to kill people. >> yes. >> it's a medical experimentation that the court's allowing. the thing is broken. we have this judge carney in california who just said what kind of reasonable process is

there because the average wait for execution in california is 20 years. what kind of reasonable person will say we're going to sentence you to life imprisonment with a remote possibility that maybe you might get executed. this is not a procedural, law-abiding process that is reasonable. it's a lottery. >> indeed. >> diann, i want to go to you. we always talk about the issue of cost and i think that's lost on a lot of people. interestingly enough now, one of the judges on that decision from the appeals court prior to this who was ruling against that appeals court that was traying to give that arizona inmate some more time. with all of the issues that you've seen now with the concoction of drugs it might be more humane to have a firing squad or a guillotine. is that what we've reach nowed because a guillotine at least will not take a two-hour execution window. >> i guess the thing is the focus on what's the best method of executing people really isn't

the problem. the issues are the issues that sister helen raised. are we getting right people? are we doing this fairly? does this make sense? that california ruling that sister helen mentioned was instructed. the system in california and every else in the country is dysfunctional. we simply cannot reconcile our values of respect for the individual and fairness with this business of killing people. it's not working and that's what we're seeing. >> it's just shocking that you hear a judge say that might be more humane, the guillotine or firing squad than the sort of lethal injection drugs were so humane for so long. sister, i would like to finish off with you. we hear a lot about the idea of forgiveness within the faith. do you think that idea is moving forward with people that the eye for an eye idea is not necessarily what would be expected out of the catholic faith? >> no. absolutely. absolutely that is happening among people, religious people. interesting. a poll done of christian

millennials, young people recently showed that seven out of ten of them did not agree that the government should have the option to kill the worst criminals. there is a change that's happening in the country on this, and i just want to say because diann-russ-tierney with the coalition to abolish the death penalty and what we're about is educating the people and there are 90 million strong in the united states in principle, working to end it. i'm chair of that group. >> right. >> and it's happening now. people are waking up about it. basically, i've got to say this, part of the moral issue is the use of money. like california, you put $2 billion into executing 13 people over how many, almost 30 years. that's immoral to use resources for a process of killing when you're not putting it into life. >> that goes the whole idea for money for prisons, but not enough money for will schools. >> from the movie "dead man

walking fame," bruce springsteen even wrote a song about you, diann tierney, thank you very much for your important work. >> poul ryan unveils the latest installment of his latest policy plan and what they think about it next only on "now." this is kathleen. setting up the perfect wedding day begins with arthritis pain and two pills. afternoon arrives and feeling good, but her knee pain returns... that's two more pills. the evening's event brings laughter, joy, and more pain... when jamie says... what's that like six pills today? yeah... i can take 2 aleve for all day relief. really, and... and that's it. this is kathleen... for my arthritis pain, i now choose aleve. get all day arthritis pain relief with an easy-open cap.

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paul ryan is playing the role of the anti-poverty crusader this week. today at the american enterprise institute ryan unveiled his latest poverty-fighting initiative, the centerpiece of which involves the consolidation of 11 safety net programs including foot stamps, cash, welfare, cash assistance and housing vouchers. >> we spend $800 billion each year on 92 programs at the federal level just to fight poverty. this new, simplified stream of funding would become the opportunity grant and it would be budget neutral. >> that last point is important,

the various ryan budgets for non-discretionary programs. it would not result in direct spending cuts, rather a reallocation of existing funds into one block grant offer to states as a pilot program. >> the idea would be let states try different ways of providing aid and then to test the results. in short, more flexibility in exchange for more accountability. >> for ryan, the effort to rebrand himself as the the gop's poverty warrior isn't new and he has competition in this area. rand paul also fancies himself as an anti-poverty crusader and marco rubio put forth his package of ideas earlier this year. for ryan, this is his second bite at the apple and he stumbled when the tailspin of culture remark on the radio show damaged his credibility on the issue, but ryan spent the last year visiting impoverished neighborhoods and largely staying out of the public eye, maintaining a low profile for someone who ran on the ticket with mitt romney and whose

budget has an economic plan during obama's presidency. ryan teamed up with patty murray on a two-year budget deal that has put a temporary halt to the country's never-ending fiscal showdowns. was ryan's new poverty plan something that democrats canny embrace or is the safety net programs to state a bridge too far for house democrats? joining me now is democratic congressman from 8th congressional district, thank you very much for being on the show. and congressman van holland, i'll start with this, paul ryan not calling for any cuts. is the republican trying to take on the issue of poverty, something that's know very popular in their confidence. what is the big democratic problem with what he's putting forward with what he's doing at the state level. >> we welcome any information and we welcome ideas on poverty. this idea of block granting is not a new idea. it's an old idea. ryan has attached bells and

whistles to it, but the idea is to send it back to the states and the history of this has been in the process of the budget for food nutrition programs and other programs actually gets cut. that's the history of it, and as you indicated, the context of this proposal really is the ryan budget. now, i know he may be trying to run away from it now, but out of his own budget out of $5 trillion in cuts, two-thirds of that came from programs that help lower and middle-income families while they cut tax -- with tax breaks for folks at the very top. >> so your worry, though, is although these are voluntary, states do not have to enter into this under ryan's plan, you feel that giving that discretion to a local governor, per se, would continue down this line of what we see as sort of two americas, like new york and will california wouldn't involve, but texas, would try and limit the

amount of funds that would go to those in need. >> that's a big risk. just look at the affordable care act. you've got lots of republican governors who have not done the medicaid expansion. as a result, you have millions of americans without access to health care and were afraid that that has been the history of block granting. so our view, luke, is look, watch what they do, not what they say and tomorrow on the floor of the house there will be a vote on a republican plan that will have the effect of cutting the child tax credit for lower income americans. it will mean another 12 million americans into poverty or deeper into poverty including 6 million children. so we see a total disconnect between chairman ryan's speech today and the actions republicans including, we assume, mr. ryan will take tomorrow on scaling back the child tax credit in a way that will put more people into poverty. there's just a total disconnect

there. >> congressman chris van holland, thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> joining me now is the editorial director of the huffington post media group. howard feinman, thanks for being on the show. >> hi, luke. >> i want po get at the politics of this. i find it fascinating, rand paul, marco rubio, paul ryan are trying to wade into this area of trying to make a movement for the gop to make themselves into the jack kemp republican party, we want to lift you up by the bootstraps and whatever you want to call it. what are the ramifications for ryan because this is not wildly popular within his own conference. for him it's a way for him to get back in the ball game and to do it on his own terms. he has a book coming out called the way forward which will contain these ideas among others and he's positioning himself to give it another go in 2016. more generally, i think the republicans are dimly aware of the fact that if they keep going

down the road they've been going in terms of demographics, especially in terms of appeals not only to african-americans, but to hispanics and others that they're on the wrong side of the population growth and of history, so this is their effort to try to get out of that box that they've put themselves in. it's one that's still, for now, gives them some cloud and presidential elections, as we see. >> right. >> but in the midterms, it's going to hurt them badly. >> it's a very tough line to walk especially for ryan because he was seen by so many on the left amongst independents as being the author of these draconian cuts and the terms they used especially wanting to push grandma off the cliff in terms of changes and what not and trying to sort of pivot over to try to fight poverty. there are some problematic pitfalls down the road with this approach. >> and by the way, this alone or

whatever rand paul is saying or whatever marco rubio has said is not going to be enough to keep grandma rhetorically from being pushed off the cliff. even jack kemp had trouble with that. >> right. >> when he was up in new hampshire, and so i -- i -- i think that they realize that there are portions of the ryan budgets of the past that are very difficult to sell politically, even mitch mcconnell in kentucky who is running for reelection there has distanced himself from the details of republican budget plans and the congress. they're aware of the fact to get middle class voters and swing voters, they can't be seen as what they're seen as now which is the party of the people at the top. >> right. >> that's just the way it is and they're dimly aware of the fact that they have to get off of that. >> and quickly, there's no incentive for democrats to move in this area as of right now

ahead of the 2014 midterms regarding what ryan's proposing. if anything this could happen in '15 or '16 and i find it doubtful for there to be movement on the democratic side. >> that's what you heard a little bit of in the president's speech out of california that we carried live a little while ago. he put a new proposal out there and this is the first time he personally has spoken about which is going after big corporations for changing their headquarters to abroad so they can avoid taxes. i think that's the main democratic line for 2014. the president today was desperately trying to get the subject back on economics, back on jobs because this will be helpful to democrats in the midterms and because he'd rather talk about that, it seems, than the chaos around the the rest of the world at this point. >> especially ahead of the midterms and the summer recess. "huffington post" howard fineman, thank you for joining us. coming up, just a week after

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another air tragedy to report today. overnight air algerie flight 5017 disappeared from burkina faso to northern algeria. the plane reportedly asked to change the route after 1:30 amp m. local time because of a storm in the area. 116 people were onboard, half of them french citizens. it comes ad as 74 more victims returned to their netherlands today. fighting continued in eastern ukraine and ukraine's prime minister resigned after the coalition of parl am collapsed. that's all for now. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. eastern and we'll be sure to keep our eye on all of the developing news of day. "the ed show" is up next.

good evening, americans and welcome to "the ed show" likes from minnesota. i'm ready to go. let's get to work! ♪ ♪ ♪ this week marks five years since the last increase in the minimum wage. >> republican leadership has refused to let us get a vote. >> more and more state and business owners are raising their workers' wages. >> i think it will hurt the economy. >> according to the labor department the 13 states that raised their minimum wage in the beginning of this year are adding jobs. >> walmart, that guy should be careful what hes. >> $240 billion in tax breaks for corporations. >> because the consumer doesn't have any money. what do you pay your people? >> do you think there's any increase in the minimum wage? no. >> too many families are working harder and harder. >> what is the price? >> america deserves better. >> when does the greed stop? >> will you