are abused and treated unjustly you must deal with what will deal with the pain and the problem and not just express your feelings about the problem. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. anger city. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. proud of its name baltimore, aka, charm city is in trouble tonight. deep trouble. hundreds of the city's young, some fresh out of high school this afternoon, threw rocks and bricks at police burned police cars and looted a neighborhood cvs late today in baltimore. all for the tv cameras to show. it started with the funeral of freddie gray the 25-year-old african-american who died while in police custody a week ago,

sunday. then later today came an open threat of gang violence to, quote, take out law enforcement officials in baltimore. adding to that -- adding to the real danger from the young people in the streets today was the predictable opportunists out there, looking for a chance to destroy and loot and otherwise exploit a bad situation. in the city just north of washington, d.c. we have a call of anger tonight. a perfect urban scene for those who love nothing better than a polarized society. within the last hour maryland's governor put his state's national guard on alert, and late today, a police spokesman vowed to put those he called criminals in jail. >> this afternoon, a group of outrageous criminals attacked our officers. right now, we have seven officers that have serious injuries including broken bones, and one officer who is unconscious. we will do whatever is

appropriate to protect the safety of our police officers and ensure the safety of the people that live and work in the mondawmin area. we will g back and do an investigation and find the people who are responsible and put them in jail. >> freddie gray's family and others called for calm but those calls went unheeded. what a terrible event this afternoon. i'm joined now by nbc's tom costello, who's in baltimore, has been in baltimore. give me an update from you've been on the scene to where you are now. >> chris, we've had to move to downtown baltimore. we have the police headquarters about a half a block down the road. the reason we moved is it simply became too volatile up there, in west baltimore. our own satellite truck was pelted with rocks. we had the cab of our satellite truck was looted. but that was nothing. i mean a couple of blocks away as you saw, hundreds of youngsters who were really going to war with the police throwing

rocks and throwing bricks and throwing bottles. the police responding, at some points, police had to go in and rescue their own officers who had been hit by bricks in some cases in the head. we saw two officers bleeding profusely from the head. now you know that the national guard is on standby. we have seen hundreds of officers flowing into that area flowing into the area to try to help reliefve the situation as best they can and get assistance to officers on the ground. let me bring in congressman elijah cummings democrat from maryland who spoke very eloquently at freddie gray's funeral today up in that same neighborhood, to see this happening now must break your heart. >> it's very, very painful. you know, i love this city live here and raised my family here and i have not seen anything like this since '68 or '69. >> you know we were talking in the last half hour about all the ingredients that come together to make this kind of a scenario. it's not just freddie gray and what happened in that case is it? >> absolutely not.

it's all of the other killings of unarmed african-american men throughout the country, by police. and i can tell you that we've got, you know, a series of events that has caused people to just say, well we're not taking it anymore. and people are literally, very very upset. and then here in baltimore, of course with the freddie gray initially, the police said that he was arrested without force or without incident, and come to find out, he had a broken neck a severed spinal cord, and a crushed larynx. and he died. >> reporter: but you and the gray family and others today, the clergy, were calling for peaceful protests. >> that's right. >> reporter: what happened? why didn't that message get out? >> the message was out. as a matter of fact, at the funeral, we emphasized that and things went well until after the funeral. and i think people just decided enough is enough, unfortunately,

and it went beyond the peaceful protests. >> these are also not the people protesting over the weekend. today we have a lot of young people, it appears, right out of high school. were they opportunists or looking for a fight? >> i think you probably had a combination of things. some people who were very upset about freddie gray. it's hard to tell what the intentions were. but what i'm telling people when they do these kinds of things, it only acts as a distraction. it does not allow us to address the issues that need to be addressed. so we talk to the police department. >> when i ask you, overall, i'm going to make this one last question, what's it going to take for this city that you live, that is your city to come back, to heal the damage. because right now, the city is on fire. >> one of the things that we're going to have had to do is we're going to have to take a very close look at the police department. and ensure people that we're going to look into it the justice department will look it into very carefully, sort of like what they did in ferguson. and we'll sit down and begin to

dialogue. we started before the gray incident, and now we've just got to continue that. but it's going to take some work. >> thank you, thank you, appreciate it. elijah cummings congressman from maryland. chris, i've got to tell you, there's a profound feeling of sadness on the streets here and of anger and anxiety as we go into another night here. the baseball game between the orioles and white sox postponed indefinitely because of what's happening. back to you. >> are you hearing anything about the windows and what happened in school? those teenagers, there was discussions, scuttlebutted school about purge day or a purge opportunity. and the question about why the kids were stranded there. apparently public transportation was cut off. they were let out early because of fear of violence and trouble in the streets, and there was no mass transit, so they were all sort of marooned in that same section where the violence began. do you know anything about those factors? >> reporter: we've heard that and that the police had been tipped off, so why didn't they keep kids in school at least, or try to alleviate the situation. we simply don't know. and honestly right now, the

police have their hands full. there's this great fear and concern also about this intelligence, which the police deem to be credible, that certain gang groups were teaming up to take out police. i think that you know the idea was going to be that that was in addition to what we see happening right now on the streets in west baltimore. let me just stress this is west baltimore. this is not downtown baltimore where i am. the riverfront is about three blocks that away. it's very peaceful tonight, although many stores have closed up tonight, because they don't want to risk more violence that might creep into downtown. >> great reporting, as always, tom costello of nbc news. we just got word that the maryland national guard has been activated and the state of emergency has been declared by larry hogan, the new governor of the state. nbc's brian mooar is on the ground in baltimore for us tonight as well. brian, give us a sense from your perspective -- we're trying to figure out, what was the ticktock this afternoon that led to the explosion midafternoon. at that high school. your thoughts your knowledge?

>> well i've been sort of in tandem with tom costello all day, i'm about 75 yards away from his stand-up position right now, as our satellite truck was pelted with rocks earlier in the day. it appears that what happened was, if you go back to before there was this notion on social media of a purge. some businesses closed down the mall was closed and it looks like kids were sent home from school early right around 3:00 is when we got first word at that mall that had been closed about police facing off with what were called a group of unruly mischievous juveniles. and it very quickly escalated from something that looked like a couple of kids to a lot of kids, to a crowd that was on the verge of getting out of control and then rocks and bottles were thrown, in a very dramatic scene. we saw an apparently injured police officer, gravely injured police officer according to

police, here in baltimore, being dragged to an armored personnel carrier by his colleagues. it was very tense, and really at this point, it's just a quarantine zone around that little area where it all started. it is an area where there's been violence fires, car set on fire, police cruiser we saw that was destroyed. the 7-eleven -- the cvs first looted and then set on fire. and you look here in downtown baltimore, a very different scene. the officers you see behind me ar short time ago, had a nice little lunch of subway sandwiches and were twirling their batons not really having much to do here where it's very quiet. >> what has caused the containment of this violence at an area, just it seems, as watching all this this afternoon, around the cvs? why one retail store being looted -- for hours it was being looted, until it was almost

empty, someone set it on fire, and why weren't other stores beyond that looted? usually if looting situations they go for the big appliances the wealthy products they have wanted perhaps for their families for year they go in and grab one. here you have a drugstore, and this was the only store hit in this whole city based upon the camera work so far. >> there were reports that a cellular phone store was also hit. and there aren't a lot of stores in that area which may be why the police are sort of trying to cordon it off, not letting anybody out. not letting anybody in. but i would sort of liken it to a controlled burn. let this place sort of work itself out, and the mayor, the police commissioner have gone on record saying that they want to allow a certain level of protests without interfering, but they drew the line at violence. but what we saw today is it did cross that line and it seems that police were in a position that they're darned if they do

they're darned if they don't. if they confront these kids that are outnumbered, then it's really going to blow up. and it's not, just you know, kids in that little area it's a whole neighborhood. >> we're watching by the way -- i didn't know this but we have new footage here, for me at least, of this check cashing place, where there's obviously going to be cash looted also a liquor store not surprising things like that happen. someone there breaking a window. you can see it right now on camera. what about the mayor's position? what did you make of her comment about, she was going to separate the crowds from the people at camden yards for the orioles' game saturday from the people who wanted an area -- an area to destroy. that got some bad spin to it. >> reporter: i can't believe that that's what she meant to say, but that's what she said. >> i don't think she did. i think she meant she was trying to control the -- i know what they're doing to her -- >> she meant she was trying to give people a chance -- i believe that what she was trying

to do was give people a chance. it worked well on saturday. you saw a huge throng of people out there protesting. a couple of troublemakers, some isolated incidences of violence. and what did you see in almost every circumstance? members of that protest group coming in and going, hey, don't give them an excuse to beat you up, to tear gas you, to shoot you. this is not what we're about. they were policing themselves. and i wonder if that's what police were trying to do today, hoping that the community would stop this, and then it just gets out of control, which is a situation we are in right now. in that isolated area it's an oasis here. it's nice and quiet, but it's hell in that neighborhood. and for the merchants who have to try to rebuild. >> that's what they used to do in big cities where they had combat zones, where they let all the pornography and the strip shows is and all that stuff, they thought, we'll leave these people to this particular area. >> reporter: in washington, d.c. -- >> in the old days right. >> reporter: in washington, d.c. --

>> and boston too. there's an old tradition of this. but this strategy is the opposite of the broken window strategy. the broken window strategy is don't allow any crime, that's how you stop it from getting out of hand. this new tactic of letting the thing burn out isn't working either. thank you so much for joining us, as always, you've been great today. brian mooar. we have jim cavanaugh with us an msnbc law enforcement analyst. i don't know what we're going to learn here in terms of police behavior, but it looks to me like the baltimore police are trying something here a limited burn, if you will. we watched for hours here in our studio in washington the looting of that cvs, with no police officer attempting to stop it. >> that's right, chris. it looks like they've taken up some stakttic positions, maybe closed in that neighborhood as a reporter on the ground said. and because there's no violence where people are being shot killed or murdered they have a static position. they did move in and put the fire out at the cvs. you saw a couple of truck companies. they knocked that down pretty

good pretty fast and they have the advantage right now of some daylight and they seem to be measured. i think that's positive. and they may be able to kind of control this slowly as night falls, and not have a lot of injuries. you know, if parents have a teenager out there, you sure want to get them home safely and keep them there. >> yeah but the troublemakers are probably not at home. and they're probably the ones who are looking for this -- everyone knows when situations like this are. any riot situation, any protest situation. the people come and see it and see it as a great opportunity to see the bad we like to do generally. there's a cover for it it's a riot. they get covered. >> that's right. and you've got to also look chris, when the video shows the people going inside the liquor store, yao got to be concerned for the owner of the liquor store, the operator. the people in the cvs farmer the employees, have they been injured, knocked down were they able to retreat to the back? all these businesses have people that work there, employees that work there. and when a building is set on

fire, you can have a fireman killed, you can have neighbors killed, that smoke's very dense. this is a very volatile situation, when arson comes to play. and you've had an officer knocked unconscious, you know some broken bones. so you know, it's a really tight time right now as night falls in the next couple of hours. and the video showing the police moving their injured officer out. right now, i would say the police you know, feel like they have control of that area that they're doing a measured response. so they're not overreacting to a car fire or to even the fire at the cvs. they seem to be reacting in a certain way, that this is the area we're dealing with and we're going to slowly methodically, with a strategy from leadership to control it. >> i wonder what the dynamic is here, though. we're watching for three or four hours, i've been watching this glued to the tv set here in washington, of course we're about an hour south of baltimore, and i'm watching these crimes occur. they'd all be individual serious crimes. i mean assaulting a police officer, assault and battery,

you know larceny, right on the street. you'd see the -- all the stuff that's going on nothing's stopping it from happening. the police strategy here is to let the cameras catch the crime, they don't catch the criminal. i think it may encourage more of this tonight, don't you think? >> it's a double-edged sword for the officers. if they move in too quickly and start trying to grab people and it explodes in their face it could even get worse. you know the most effective teak was technique was what we saw in the latter days of ferguson. the beginning of ferguson was that awful response with s.w.a.t. teams and officers with .308 rifles on the tops of the armored vehicles. that was wrong. but in the latter response is the police got better and better and more practiced, and as they understand what they were supposed to do you would see them move in with the grab teams. a grab team would get the guy you're describing chris, that might have just committed the crime, and bring him back behind

the police line and make the arrest. and as you make the arrest on those who are really committing the violence and not just people who are moths to the flame, they're there, curiosity seekers, if you watch the msnbc video feed you can see, there'll be 20 people 30 people that are going in and out of the store and across the street there's 100 people watching. >> jim, hang in there. >> that's what police officers have to do. >> stay with us jim, jim cavanaugh. shamari stone is a reporter with the local washington tv station for nbc. he was pepper sprayed by police earlier today. give us an account. >> reporter: right now i'm here at north fulton avenue andest estwest north avenue in baltimore. police have their tactical units. a man just threw a chair at this anne arundel county special operations ss vehicle. police are dispersing the crowd with pepper spray and now they're throwing what appears to be -- they're exploding. i don't know if y'all heard

that. and this woman just threw a bottle at police. i think you should stop doing that. you're going to hurt yourself. >> all right. >> she just fell down and now she's up. police are slowly moving people back and they're throwing bottles, i've seen several stores looted. i actually talked to a man who was devastated. he worked so hard for his store, he says and now it's absolutely destroyed, shattered glass, police are moving people back. and right now, i am seeing some people who are trying to taunt the police cursing at them and it appears, from what i see, that police are using restraint, but at the same time, you have some pockets of people who are taunting them trying to get them to react. >> yeah we're watching people now with their hands up ferguson style obviously, or attempting to emulate, what they believe happened in ferguson. what about -- what store are you watching that was destroyed? was that the liquor store, the check cashing store? which one was that? >> reporter: police just threw a

tactical device that people here and they just threw -- oh, -- hold on. now i'm getting behind a car. we're here at west north avenue north fulton avenue. i don't know if you can pull that up on your chopper, there's a lot of activity right now. people are throwing objects at police and police are trying to tactically move people back. >> okay. >> and they're firing -- >> are you safe? are you all right? you're behind a -- can you talk to anybody there? are you just seeking cover right now? >> reporter: right now i was seeking cover, but i can try to talk to this woman over here. >> sure. >> reporter: excuse me. hi, i'm shamari stone from news 4. what's going through your mind right now. you're on msnbc. >> the -- they've got going is not safe. >> reporter: right now the police are disbursing the crowd

as they throw bottles at the different. >> i heard that woman, it was pretty graphic. and i guess, i want to stay with you now, if i can. stay safe but give us a picture of what you're hearing for the people yelling. we can't hear it. >> reporter: well people are screaming right now, a lot of them are saying that they want to know what happened to freddie gray. they say why haven't they received an answer from the baltimore police department, they say, in terms of what happened to him, with his final injury. you have some people who are legitimate protesters, who want to know what happened to freddie gray. but at the same time you have others who appear to be people who are provoking the police officers, some of them who aren't even from the baltimore area, who are stirring up a lot of trouble here. keep in mind you have the funeral earlier today, this was supposed to be a day of mourning peopling paying tribute to freddie gray. but right now you have a lot of folks who are trying to utilize this as a way to loot. i saw a lot of people walking down the street with all types

of candy -- all types of candy, liquor and they're using this trying to seize this momentum as a way to get what i describe as freebies. >> there was the talk of this day being a day of purge, where you can get away with anything. one of these halloween events this anything-goes attitude out today. have you heard about that? >> reporter: i have not heard about that but i do want to tell you that a lot of folks i've seen what they're doing is they're going to their cars and putting masks over their faces to get a sense of being anonymous out here and a lot of folks are waiting for that sun to go down and it's important to point out that if you're in the baltimore area it's good for you to just stay indoors right now, because you have these different pockets of different areas, because before we were on pennsylvania avenue, and then you move right down here to north fulton area, and

that's when it picks up again, where you have people throwing chairs and bottles. you should see the street over here. it looks like hurricane just swept through here based upon all the debris covering the concrete. there's a man across the street and while i'm on the phone with you, i'm going to take a picture of him and post it on twitter, so you guys can get a picture of what i'm talking about. he's standing in front of the e-z mart tobacco store and he looks very upset. everyone went in there and actually looted his place. i'm simultaneously going to post this on twitter for you right now. right now there are people gathering in the middle of north fulton avenue. you have some folking who are getting off work trying to go around the crowds not knowing that this is all going. it's important if you are in the baltimore area watching msnbc right now, coming up on west north avenue and north fulton

avenue, stay away from this area. >> what is the racial atmosphere about? are there many white people around or is it mainly an african-american community and that's who is on the streets now? any seeming animus towards white? >> reporter: i'm not a statistician, but i would say it's 95% black, 5% white. there are some whites who i spoke to were in town for the freddie gray funerals to pay tribute to them. but a lot of people tell me they're tired of what they call police brutality. and now anne arundel police have tactical units and they're trying to come through and this man just threw a bottle at the police vehicle not realizing that it's pretty secure and it's just totally out of control right now. >> it's getting dark now, do you have a sense that this is going to continue through the night?

is there any sense of a -- i should say, a pace of this? are people growing on the streets or are they receding from the streets? >> reporter: no, what i -- in my opinion, from what i've seen from being out here the last couple of hours, i do believe it will continue. why? because you have a lot of folks who are drinking. >> that means a long night. >> reporter: all these different kinds of liquors and getting buzzed and intoxicated and their inhibitions are down. so you might have someone who normally wouldn't do anything but now with the alcohol kicking in, now's my opportunity. i'll take a bottle and throw it at a police officer's car. that's whooat i'm seeing. >> you're a great street reporter. i want to have you for the rest of the hour. >> i'm here anytime you need me. >> the mayor of baltimore will hold a news conference tonight at 7:45. we'll have it on as part of our program tonight on "hardball," about 20 minutes from now. joining me now by phone, is former maryland lieutenant governor, michael steele my

friend from this program. he's also an msnbc political analyst. >> michael, as a way from the political middle as i see, this is only good for haters and people who love trouble and people who love polarization. this is not good for our country tonight. >> it isn't. and it's very frustrating. i've been watching msnbc's coverage on this and when that cvs went up in flames and i know that neighborhood having spent a lot of time in baltimore city walking those neighborhoods and only thing that occurred to me is tomorrow a grandmother is going to need to get her medicine and that convenience store will not be there, that cvs won't be there. and it does send the wrong signal when you see elements and that's referring to it politely instead of peacefully protesting, expressing their frustration, their concerns about the lack of police, you know, community responses, the lack of information in the gray

case, resort to this kind of violence. and it's very, very frustrating. and i know for a lot of officials there, i listen to billy murphy the attorney for the gray family express, again, that these rioters are not representative of the folks who want to have the concern around billy, around freddie gray's death addressed. and so this distracts chris more than it does anything else. >> what do you think those kids are hearing from their parents, back and forth? i guess it depends on the family. but kids tend to go home for supper. and then they want to go out after supper. that's what you do in the summertime, anyway. that's going to be a test of strength for a lot of good parents in these neighborhoods, when they tell the kids they aren't going out. >> yeah it is. you're staying in tonight, and they should. the governor has put the national guard in play. declared a state of emergency, and that means that

things like curfews and things will come shortly. i'm sure the mayor will probably address some of that in her remarks in just a moment or two. but for a parent right now, their first concern should be the well-being of their kids. their kids do not need to be out on the streets, as has been reported on this program and other programs, these young folks, these are teenagers, they're starting to drink. it's getting dark. and, so a parent who cares about their kid will have their kid in tonight. >> and the kid will be getting called from his buddy, saying where are you, why aren't you out? and they succumb to peer pressure even in the suburbs you get this but in the inner city win imagine city, i imagine it's even stronger to listen to your buddies. >> it is. and there's a lot of pressure to participate. but the reality of it is this is not something that they should participate in because it really is reflective of where the broader community is chris. i think it's very important for folks who are watching this from

around the country to understand that this is symptomatic of deep-seated concerns that have grown over the past year especially in the black community, with the death of young black men. and i know a lot of people want to jump to the conclusion oh, there they go again, but this is a frustration that is deeply rooted -- this is not how you address that but there are situations -- >> michael, let's talk about it right now. we've got a minute or two. when you look at it, you can say, rotten apples, bad apples. you can say the case it was is on the clear what happened with michael brown out there in ferguson. the hands up thing didn't stand up. but the guy was shot. and in the garner case you see the guy in a choke hold killed partially because of a choke hold. you get the chase of the vigilante down in the south, he shoots the kid because he was in the neighborhood didn't want him in the case. the zimmerman case. >> i was going to say, the one where the police officer pulled

the guy over tells him, the guy gets out of the car to get his driver's license, he reaches back in the car to get his driver's license and he shoots him. so if these are the examples that are becoming more and more prevalent, you have to understand why there's a genuine concern in the community about the value of a young black man's life, and why this greater tension now between the police and young african-american males. all of this needs to be addressed, substantively, not just with marches and protests but really sitting down and doing what community policing is all about. getting in the neighborhoods and having the one on one and having an understanding between that community and the police who protect that community. >> two other pieces michael, the fear of the police officer. he's going to get killed. the incidence of crime in a black community, the white cop's scared, the black cop is scared to death. these things are cauldrons of

hell. and the guilt is obvious. we have a criminal system if you shoot a guy you're not supposed to shoot, you go to jail or worse. you're not allowed to do it. but you also say, wait a minute it's a social situation we're all familiar with. we all know about the tensions here between the police officer and possibly a criminal or a real criminal. and it's horrible. and the racial factor just walks right in it because of poverty and neighborhoods and geography and crime rates and it all meshes together. michael steele, thank you very much for coming on tonight. we will continue right now with our live coverage of the riots and the violence on the streets of baltimore, including a news conference coming up from the mayor of baltimore, coming up at 7:45, which is pretty close right now, about 15 minutes from now. our coverage here on msnbc continues after this. these days you may be hearing more about data breaches in the news. it's possible your personal information may be at risk. research shows that if your information is compromised due to a data breach you are 6 times more likely to become a victim of identity theft. now is the time to get protection. sign up today and lifelock will begin

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thanks for calling angie's list. how may i help you? i heard i could call angie's list if i needed work done around my house at a fair price. you heard right, just tell us what you need done and we'll find a top rated provider to take care of it. so i could get a faulty light switch fixed? yup! or have a guy refinish my floors? absolutely! or send someone out to groom my pookie? pookie's what you call your? my dog. yes, we can do that. real help from real people. come see what the new angie's list can do for you. we're back with our continuing coverage of the riots and the violence on the streets of baltimore tonight. seven police officers have been injured, some seriously, we're expecting a news conference from

baltimore mayor, stephanie rawlings blake coming up at 7:45, a few minutes from now. baltimore city councilman nick mosby is with us now by phone. councilman, thank you for joining us. can you put together the incidents that occurred today, perhaps this circulated -- look at this. we're watching the violence right here. >> yeah we have an amazing homegrown service for freddie gray and his family. many folks have come out, called on peace to ensure that we have justice for mr. gray but jufrl you know, some children decided to organize and in their organizing, they decided to meet up at 3:00 in a wall in west baltimore and the police got wind of it and with the explosion of social media, it quickly turned into a large protest of young children all baltimore city public school children, between the ages of 14 15 16 17 years old, and

the police came prepared in riot gear and armored trucks and it just quickly spilled out of control. this is my district. this is closer to where i live. and the one thing i will point out, chris, is we're going to continue to talk about this as it relates to freddie gray but the incidents that we're seeing is much more than freddie gray. freddie gray's untimely death is the a culmination of many years, decades of systemic issues and these young folks are showing their anger and their frustration, in aer have unproductive manner. >> i grew up in philly not far from baltimore, and my dad worked in the court system and he would tell me that the police, when they brought a kid in african-american kid, juvenile delinquent, you might say, in those days they'd beat them up in the car. is this something that happens today, where the police administer punishment after an arrest? >> is this something that's prevalent or is it the bad

apples? how would you describe it? bad apples or common? >> i would describe it as bad apples, but that drives the perception. so when you have a small amount of the folks causing the majority of the issues i mean "the baltimore sun" did an excellent job of highlighting some officers with multiple complaints and multiple civil judgments that the city had to pay out over the course of a time period. those bad apples really draw the perception. and they just exacerbate the distrust in the community. and unfortunately, this is bigger than police brutality. this is a socioeconomic issues. folks who live in abject poverty, folks who don't have necessarily access to quality schooling. folks who don't have necessarily access to quality opportunity. you know when a young person is born in this world, we constantly say, you can be whatever you want to be in life. but unfortunately, it's a reality, depending on your zip code and depending on your poverty level directly depends on sometimes the trajectory that you can live out in life. and these young folks are angry

and this is how they're showing their anger. most of the time they feel voiceless, feel disen fran accused, chized. >> where do they go those kids? if they keep a clean record do they have a future look forward to? is there a job opportunity or a market for an 18-year-old student that graduates, a c-student, not a genius where's he going? >> unfortunately, we're seeing the richer getting richer and the divide between the middle class and the upper class. and you know opportunities are less specifically in these areas. there's limited access to quality, commercial opportunities, you know, hiring these children. many of these areas, they are only filled with like drugs, with liquor stores not really real opportunities. so i think no many of these folks, they feel disenfranchised, but also feel hopeless. feel like they don't necessarily have a connection. that's one thing that we can change in this country and that we must change in this country.

and this is not a baltimore city thing, this is an urban america thing. and these kids are screaming for help. their actions are from decades old of sins is and failed policies that have failed their communities. >> if we can only come up with jobs. i'm you, sir. >> i'm not providing any excuse. >> i understand. >> their actions are totally wrong. >> i understand. but we need something for the kid who's 18 years old that's a regular kid to do besides going into the drug trade. something's got to happen there. thank you so much, councilman nick mosby of baltimore. u.s. congressman -- actually dutch rueberger of maryland is with us. you were on earlier today. congressman, give us a sense of this, you know i don't want to get too sociological here but this is not an unfamiliar situation we're looking at here. >> it's not, but the unfortunate thing, those of us who grew up in baltimore, we love baltimore. and i represent the region of baltimore.

and what's so upsetting is for the country now to see baltimore in this situation. you know baltimore has so much history and tradition. we've entreecelebrated the war of 1812, yet, because of what has occurred, and we understand or i understand how frustrated so many people in the inner city and african-americans are about what's happening, as far as the police brutality throughout the country. but we've got to deal with that and we are dealing with that. the problem now is that we have a few individuals who take the law into their hands. this is wrong. and really the victims more than anybody are the people who live in these neighborhoods, which are inner city neighborhoods, and not a lot of -- a lot of poverty and issues like that. but you can't tolerate looting. you can't tolerate individuals being attacks and that's -- and in our country, we have to have law and order and stand up to that. so that's where the situation is now. and i'm worries about tonight. i'm a former prosecutor.

and i'm worried about the darkness of night. you had the juveniles that participated today, and that was wrong. but now, i think, there are a lot of -- i'm worried about tonight and more looting and fires, things like that. >> well some of the people probably are hear for a peaceful protest are wearing those 300-men march sweaters or shirts, i think that's a sign of civil protest, which is very appropriate. you know, you put the three pieces together, congressman. you work in this area of the united states law and economic policy. and what percentage of it is these kids have nowhere to go after they get out of high school? the smart kids will become teachers and doctors and lawyers, that's the "a" students. but most kids are regular kids. in the old age, you get a job. now i don't think there are jobs for these kids? >> they feel they're trapped. they feel they don't have a life ahead of them. and that's why you have so many kids going into crime in inner cities and drugs and that kind of thing. we have to deal with it. that's why you need programs

like head start and you need to get the community to stand up and help it. but you can't take the law into your own hands with this protest. you know, with freddie grays being buried today and his family saying please you know, don't disgrace freddie gray for whatever has happened as wrong as you think it might be this is the day of his funeral and his family and his twin sister are saying please make these protests nonviolent. and they were. we were very proud of what happened and the nonviolence on saturday. and then, then a few people left off and then it started. and now it's really taking another level. and that's unfortunate, but we have to have law and order. and we now have to stand up and stop this and bring people -- >> okay thank you. we've got a car on fire here. congressman, thank you for coming on from baltimore. joining me right now, a great man, a former united states congressman, former baltimore city councilman and former head of the naacp. he was at freddie gray's funeral

earlier today. mr. take the floor, so many vicious factors here. unemployment, lost opportunities for 17 and 18-year-old kids still in school but having no real plans. and then the word gets out, this is a day for the purge or whatever you will. anything goes day. and lots of anger and now the fuel and now the night's coming. your thoughts? >> a couple of things. first of all, thank you for the opportunity. there are a lot of people here who could be speaking tonight. i just happen to be standing here at this time. and these are people who are pent up with frustration, people who get up and go to work every day. people who follow their faith, people who raise their children. and children who will bury their parents. but what seems to be getting the attention all over the nation are the ones that are seemingly doing what they want to do tonight. everything that they've been taught not to do. and they're doing it not so much because they just needed something to do, they're doing

it because the pent-up frustration that they've seen have seen in their parents over many years, is in them. unfortunately, it has taken this ugly ugly tone, and it has created here in the city, a situation that is clearly code red in many places. i've got to tell you, i satid at the funeral today, this is the last thing, the absolute last thing that freddie gray's family wants. they were as clear as they could be that they wanted to mourn him, they wanted to remember him, and they wanted justice for him. they've asked people repeatedly not to do anything other than that. seemingly, the groups of people that we've seen almost appear to be better organized, in some instances, result of social media, than some of the police. and they seem to be pop up strategically, over and over again, and it's been difficult for the police department to contain. >> let me ask you about the parents. you were up there, the parents and their kids are having dinner

together, hopefully, around 7:00 tonight. and they're getting together and then the kids want to go out. you know that's what's going on. tell me about that tinderbox of kids and parents fighting you want to go out, no you can't go out. >> well, we hope that the parents win out, obviously. i think that situation concerns me less the one that concerns me more are kids who are sitting around and there are no parents, where they make their own decisions and they've already made a decision to go here or go there and do something else. that's what troubles me. where there is a family where there are loved ones and where there is an effort to sort of use this as a moment to teach the generation currently, about what the generation prior went to, i hope that conversation is occurring. and i hope parents would recognize and say to kids over and over again, as we all know that when good people are silent, bad things always happen. and when good people stand up you find a way to control situations. i've got to say this growing up here all my life and seeing this

police department, the concerns here are legitimate. there has been a cadre, a quarter of this police has gone on over and over again, unrestricted, almost taking advantage of people's rights violently doing things against them planting drugs on them. this didn't start with freddie gray. if you look at the arrest record in baltimore, you can see it's been going on for a long time. in fact, the police department paid $5 million just a few months back to settle lawsuits in over 60 different cases where they were found to have violated the rights of individuals. so, it's a real frustration. it is unfortunate that the ugly part of it is showing its head and we're just calling on men throughout the community to come out, like i'm out, and like others are out tonight, go into the crowds talk to these young men, as a way that only a man can talk to another man, and to stand there and try to find a way to tell them that this is not the way to do it. if there's a better way, at the

end of the day, if we don't get justice for freddie gray we would have failed. >> what do you think we're going to get here? are we going to get a report from the police that's going to tell us how a guy gets his spinal cord broken during police custody? i mean there can't be any good reason for that? so what's the delay? i've heard this from other people tonight, that the suspicion is they're putting together a story. >> yeah, i agree with you, chris. no one knows what the delay is. we know that mr. gray got so a van and we know that he got out. during the time the van was stopped, he was placed in leg irons, which i really don't understand. i mean this is not about django. this is a human being who you already have handcuffed in a police van in custody with two officers nearby. and then when he gets out, he's still crying for help and finally, a paramedic is called. he's put into the hospital barely breathing, 80% of his spine severed.

and the investigation seems to take forever. whatever happened we know happened in the time he got caught from the time he got out of the van. many people have given the police department the benefit of the doubt on this but i think that has helped fuel the flame of anger and this belief somehow that there might be a cover-up. >> you know, i want to ask you one thought. i know you were active in congress, as a progressive democrat, and you've been a great leader of the naacp, and here we are talking about what you and i will be talking about when we're 90 if we're 90 we'll be talking about it again. i don't think the trade issue answers it. where are we going to find manufacturing jobs good old boys jobs young mens jobs where you go work, come back a little dirty, a little sweaty but proud of yourself from a hard day at the plant. my uncle and grandfather grew up in north philly. the neighborhood is african-american, but none of those jobs are there. they were there when i was there. you get on the subway two stops away, you had real job. you get into baltimore, you can't find a job, with a short commute. and that's, to me, the problem that's behind all of this.

>> the jobs are in china, they're in korea, they're in indonesia, they're in south america, good, regular, hard-paying jobs where a lot of companies seeking to pay fewer dollars in wages have taken those jobs and transported them overseas. this didn't mysteriously happen where people can't find a job, this is a drain that's been going on year after year after year. and this is a result of what happens when people can't find a way to take care of themselves have a sense of dignity, a sense of peace, and a sense of purpose. >> i wish the jobs hadn't first gone south, congressman, because that's where they went first. and think went to the right-to-work states where the unions didn't have any power. you could get people to work for nothing and the stuff wasn't that good that was made down there. that was the first stop on the trip away. thank you for coming on tonight. i've always wanted you on the show. thank you for coming back on a terrible night. >> thank you very much. >> we've been watching live

pictures of a car on fire on the streets of baltimore, which is a pretty good indication of what this night's about. just burning and destruction. we're awaiting a news conference, any minute now. we're joined right now by phone by tessa hill aston, the president of the baltimore naacp. thank you very much, tessa. and give us your sense of what you can add to what we've been trying to get covered here tonight on msnbc. >> reporter: well it's the same. i feel bad that it's happening. we're going to have a lot of businesses that will be gone that people need in their community, but i can understand the outranlge. because the community, especially the black young men and teenagers are upset because freddie gray is deceased, he's not the only one. we have about five or six cases right now where people have either been beat up or and we have two or three people who are deceased at the hands of the police in the past three years, and no one has been brought to justice. so this was just the last time that they were going to stand for it. we didn't have this kind of outrage the last time. but what's been going on across

america and other cities and states in ferguson and new york i guess the people just couldn't take anymore. >> okay, who's on point from -- who's the naacp person on point right is the ncaa person on point right now dealing with the baltimore police on the freddie gray police, who is pressuring them every day and every hour to get a report out? >> we're working on that. i've been talking to the police and the mayor. we're going to continue to ask every day. i've been meeting with the family. we stand tall with the family and all the pastors, so the faith-based and ncaa we've been standing together for the past seven days saying we want justice for freddie gray and we want justice. every day when we go somewhere, the families of all the other victims, anthony anderson tyrone west these are people that died at the hands of the police that were healthy black men before they came in contact with the police.

>> tessa, you're in the naacp, do you believe that cops beat up blacks as a regular practice? are these bad apples? how would you describe the system right now in >> i think there's a combination. there's a lot of bad apples and a lot of people just see a black male and stop him and do things to him and assume he's done something wrong. he was not doing anything eye contact and he ran because a lot of people are afraid of the police. he was young and ran. but old people sometimes can't run and they get beat up or get jerked around for about an hour. we sued the police department

about seven years ago for almost $1 million where they took one young boy and drive him to the county and took his shoes and left him. he tracked down a baltimore county police and brought him back. with the help of the aclu and the naacp, they got sued. now we have people that don't want money, they want their sons alive. so the community, i'm sorry this happened, but the police have to get their act together. >> you have a police department there that's fairly mixed there, black and white officers. what is the continuing motive for police brutality as a pattern? >> because, there's certain neighborhoods in baltimore where young men are standing on the corner without jobs, without anywhere to go. just like you were saying, all the jobs are gone.

these young children are stand thing with no direction new york where to go and they don't have anything to do and they don't have any money. so the police attack them and talk bad to them or they drive down the street and get off the corner. if they don't move fast enough, they get out and start cussing at them. i'm sorry this is happening today, but if they don't change their ways from the top down and the bottom up if people don't stop showing racism to young black boys just like today, one of our pastors made the comment that -- [ inaudible ] years ago, even in the '50s, black men especially you better not look at a white person in the face. this is still in some people's

minds, so we have to train the police, because if they're afraid to come in a neighborhood and are supposed to beat somebody they need to find another job. >> what do you want the mayor to say? >> she's doing a lot, but what's going to happen is if we don't get a report from the police saying what this gentleman died from this is not going to stop. it's going to continue. even though somebody may stop there's always somebody going to say let's bring this back up and destroy the city and the police and make everybody look bad, because they haven't gotten any help. >> okay. thank you so much. tessa hill from the naacp in baltimore. we'll have the mayor, she's a major figure in maryland politics. a lot of people are talking about her running for the united states senate in the state. there's an open seat next year.

we have right now clarence mitchell, former maryland state senator. mr. mitchell thank you for coming on. i know all about your father. how does this fit into the history of civil rights and the struggle in your state and city? >> chris, people are in pain and angry t the same time. four generations of my family are invested in the past present, and future of this city. what i'm watching is indescribable. >> what do you make of it? is this a police brutality situation, a poverty situation? everybody is watching this in the country tonight and go why is baltimore burning? >> freddie gray is the late nest a situation, chris, of police brutality cases where, unfortunately the system has not worked to produce justice. what you're seeing tonight is not protesters they're rioters.

protesters' voices have not been heard, so now they're rioters. >> and do you think these kids -- i guess i call them kids. they're probably juniors and seniors in high school, 17, 18 years old. i'm a little bit skeptical about outside protesters what do you make of snit >> chris, there are outsiders as well as local people. the bottom line is these are people that their whole mission is to destroy. because they elevated the rioters see a vacuum and a void and they fill the void. >> what about my favorite question, my least favorite reality in this country, c students, regular kids that come out of high school, maybe they even graduate. so they do what they're supposed to do but they're average kids where are they going to do. what do they see in their

future? >> we used to have bethlehem steel in baltimore city we used to have general motors. we don't have blue collar jobs. >> i hear you. here's the mayor. >> thank you all for being here this evening. what we see tonight that is going on in our city is very disturbing. it is very clear, there is a difference between what we saw over the past week with the peaceful protests those who wish to seek justice, those who wish to be heard, and what answers. and the difference between those protests and the thugs who only want to incite violence and destroy our city. i'm a wife mom, resident of

baltimore. too many people have sent generations building up this city. for it to be destroyed by thugs who? a very senseless way, are trying to tear down what so many have fought for. tearing down businesses tearing down destroying property. things that we know will impact our community for years. we are deploying every resource possible to gain control of this situation and to ensure peace moving forward. i've been in contact with our governor and he has agreed and i have requested and he has agreed to deploy the national guard as soon as they are

available, they will be immediately deployed. we've ordered a curfew be in effect instituting tomorrow the curfew city wide 10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. again, there will be a city wide curfew, 10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. this preliminary curfew will last for one week and be extended as it is necessary. let me be clear, we already operate under a juvenile curfew and those young people who are 14 and under have a 9:00 p.m. curfew, because it is a school night. over 14 it's 10:00 p.m. that is tonight and every school night. again, we have ordered a curfew to be instituted starting tomorrow 10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. and activated the emergency operation center to be available, to have an

administration wide response to the incidents as they occur. i want to thank the city council president for being here. i want to thank councilman brandon scott for being here. also councilman eric costello i want to thank kiefer mitchell for being here on behalf of governor hogan and for all of your work coordinating this response. i'm going to ask colonel dedusa to speak. >> that's a news press conference in baltimore. joining me now is nbc's brian mooar. brian, do we have you there? likes like we don't have brian. let's go back to the presser. >> mainly towards the west side of baltimore. we're not going to tolerate that. the