r that people building and coalescing around. that's what they do here. >> trimain lee, thank you. good show "the ed show." in washington, d.c. >> i will be running as independent democrat. we're in the race to win. >> plus. >> the timeline and the evidence and the information that we have developed in the story does not match. >> we know what happened. we don't need a report. we're sick and tired. >> sick and tired of the foolish foolishness. >> good to have you with us tonight. it's an important day here on "the ed show." a gentleman on the program quite often backing up a big announcement. earlier today, vermont senator, bernie sanders officially announced he will run as a democrat for the president of

the united states. this makes senator sanders the first democratic challenger to hillary clinton. many will view this as a good day for democracy and the backdrop of all of this today is activism in numerous cities across america. you're looking live at a march in philadelphia today after marches and protests in new york city last night, this seems to have taken on a life of its own. there will be marches later on today in baltimore, but this is the scene in philadelphia. and we start our interview tonight with senator sanders on this topic. senator, good to have you with us. congratulations on this announcement. certainly, it is a big challenge for you, but i want to go right to today's news senator. you're now president of the united states. you see what's unfolding on american straits. what's the problem as you see it, what's the solution? >> well the problem is that for many years, police brutality and the killing of innocent people has not been dealt with. that's a fact. the good news is that the american people not just the

african-american community are saying enough is enough you can't hold people in custody and then find out they're dead. can't shoot people in the back in south carolina the conservative southern state, a police officer was charged with murder. i'm a former mayor. i know being a cop is not an easy job. but when police officers misbehave, they've got to be held accountable. the other good news all over this country, when people are beginning to stand up and say enough is enough change is taking about. you ask me what i would do as president? number one we would fight hard for police reform for body cameras, for the training that police officers need to know how to treat people who are in captivity with respect. but the underlying issue in terms of freddie gray's community, as i understand it do you know what the unemployment rate is there? >> extremely high. they've lost so many manufacturing jobs over the last 15 years, the city the community has not found a way to deal with it. >> and you can have every police

officer in america being a harvard law school graduate and you're not going to address this issue unless we give people some hope unless we give people opportunity. that means jobs education, you can't turn your back on neglected parts of america. >> what would you do if you're president when it comes to revitalizing communities like this that are having socioeconomic problems? >> we've introduced legislation already, for a start, a trillion dollars in our infrastructure. putting 13 million new jobs rebuilding our roads and bridges, water systems, waste water plants to create a whole lot of jobs. introduce with john of michigan $5.5 billion job training job creating program for young people. youth unemployment in america is 17%. african-american youth unemployment is totally off the charts. we've got to put young people to work. we've got to give them an education rather than putting them in jail. >> what do you think of the riots the other night? i want to know has the social structure gotten to the point

where this is the only outlet these people had at that particular time? people say in baltimore, they're peaceful for a week until the cameras show up. but it did happen. the riots did happen and it was in baltimore. so what's the solution? >> this is what i think. i think there's a massive amount of anger and discontent. i think it is more than just what happened to freddie gray. i think it is people are saying how come we are living in the richest country in the history of the world, our kids can't go to college, we don't have child care for our kids rkts, no jobs. i think that's significantly what it's about. >> senator, why are you running, doing this? >> i tell you why i'm doing it. this is my first day out there, and i'm feeling good about it. this country today, ed faces more crises than we have faced since the great depression and if you throw in climate change which the scientists are telling us is the major global crisis that we face, is probably worse

off than the great depression. i don't see people talking about this issue. i don't see politicians working on this issue. and i think it's time that we address it. and getting back to your point. the only way that change takes place in my view is when millions of people stand up and say, enough is enough. and it's not just with police brutality. enough is enough when the great middle class of this country is disappearing. how does it happen that we have more technology and increased productivity and people are working longer hours for low wages and more people living in poverty than almost anytime in the history of america? how does that happen? how does it happen that 99% of all new income in this country goes to the top 1%? how does it happen that the top tenth of 1% owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90%? these are the central issues facing these country and on top of that as a result of the

disasterous. and about to understood mine democracy. >> why would you be better than mikt? hillary clinton? >> i'll let hillary clinton speak for herself. >> let's talk about trade. today, her communications team or at least excerpt from her book saying she stands with elizabeth warren when it comes to trade and did an excerpt. i think the american people are looking more for a direct answer, you have been direct on this. you are against trade promotional authority and you are against the tpp. because the tpa would lead to a bad trade deal. so where do you stand on this and right after president obama after the midterms took place and the republicans took over the senator, this is the first thing that mitch mcconnell talked about the day after press conference saying there's areas that they can work on with the president, one of them is trade. that was supposed to be a slam dunk. we're now almost at may 1st and they don't have the votes in the

house. does that give you any confidence to help you? >> absolutely. i've been going around the country, talking about the trade issue. i don't have to talk about it. people increasingly know about it. cafta was a disaster. permanent noble trade with china was a disaster. why do we want to continue down a path where the previous agreements have led to the loss of millions of decent paying jobs? so if you're asking me should the american worker be forced to compete against somebody in vietnam who has a minimum wage of 56 cents an hour, you know what the answer is? no. we've got to demand a corporate america, start reinvesting in the united states of america, not china. it is a huge issue. i voted against all of these agreements. i will help lead the opposition against the tpp. >> what about the money, can you raise enough money to run a competitive campaign? >> one of the hesitancies i had about going forward was just that. clearly, i'm not going to have anywhere near the same amount of money as the other candidates probably raising over a billion dollars, but you know what?

i think that we can raise a lot of small donations today. we open up our web site. we announced candidacy. berniesanders.com. in the first hours, half a million dollars. i think there is a lot of potential out there from people who say, bernie i can't give you a million dollars or a thousand dollars i can give you $50. i think we can raise the money we need to run a strong campaign. >> to run a campaign there's an admission here you certainly won't have the television presence that hillary clinton's campaign will have and i have to keep bringing up hillary clinton because she's the only one in the race besides you. and it might turn out to be that's just it. so what do you think it takes to run a competitive campaign to organize? >> i'll tell you what it takes. what it requires is and what i have always done in vermont is run strong grassroots campaigns. last campaign i ran, i didn't put a nickel not a nickel on tv ads. we put all of our money into the grassroots organizations. i got 71% of the vote. so i think what we have to do is

go out there, get good organizers build a strong volunteer base work with the label movement, work with the environmental kmunlt work with the women's community and mobilize people in all across this country to stand up and fight back to the billionaires. >> do you expect the support of labor? >> i think we have some labor, absolutely. some are sympathetic. >> they're all against the tpp. >> without exception. >> all of them? >> every single union. >> this is their issue. >> rich trumka recently reported and said again, this is a key issue for the flcio. >> how would president bernie sanders be different from president obama? >> i'll tell you. first of all, i have a lot of respect for president obama. he's a friend. i have disagreed with him on tax policy. i was on the floor of the senate a few years ago for 8.5 hours

arguing he should not continue some of bush's tax breaks for the rich. and obviously, we have strong disagreements on the tpp. where i think the president has made his biggest mistake is that after his historic and brilliant 2008 presidential campaign in which he rallied the american people, brought young people into the political process what he did after he was elected is kind of say, hey, thanks a lot. i appreciate it. you're gone. and now i'm going to sit down and argue and try to negotiate with john boehner. i think that was a terrible mistake because here's the truth, ed. and i'm the only candidate maybe to ever say this. no president, not the smartest best human being in the world can do it alone. you cannot take on this the power that is in washington, the billionaires and the lobbyists and the military industrial complex, all this money and power, you can't do it.

you need a mass movement of americans who are looking in congress and say directly if you don't make college education affordable, you're out of here. because we know it's going on. if you don't end these huge tax breaks for the rich you're out of here. so what we have got to do and i call it a political revolution is raise political consciousness in this country. make people aware of what's going on in washington the importance of politics get them involved in the political process and have them stand up to the big money and trust that so much power. >> what would be your policy in dealing with isis? >> this is what i think. isis is obviously a barbaric organization that has to be defeated, but i will do everything that i can to prevent the united states getting involved in another war in that country. >> can it be defeated without a ground war? >> no but i think the people who have to wage the ground war are not troops from the united states of america.

you have saudi arabia sitting right in ta area nobody knows this, the third largest military budget in the world. third largest. you have other very wealthy and powerful countries sitting in that region. they have got to wage the fight for the sole of islam. we should be supportive along with other european countries. give them support. i support air strikes, special missions, but at the end of the day, it's going to be the muslim nations themselves who are leading the fight with our support. >> you say you support air strikes. what about the use of drones and the way they're handled in the obama administration? >> i don't think it's a yes or no. clearly, it has been counterproductive when we kill innocent people including americans. they are one tool that i think in the arsenal but clearly, in many instances, they have backfired onus. >> drone strikes continue as president? >> in a selective way. >> policy change, a different vetting process on how to get to that? >> we have had some success with

drones and a lot of failures. i think we have to reanalyze what we're doing there. >> senator sanders, you have been really the fighter out front and the leader when it comes to the conversation of income inequality in america. wall street. would you be in favor of reinstating or advocating for the reimplementation of glass eagle, was that the break-up of the commercial and investment banks? >> ed if you want to go to youtube, you can see the dialogue i had in the house with alan greenspan and taking him on talking about all of the wonderful benefits of deregulation of wall street. i told him he was dead wrong then and he was. as a member of the house, one of the leaders in opposition of the deregulation, i think it was a tragic mistake. this is what i'll tell you. i would go further than just reinstating glass steel. i think we've got to appreciate when we have 6 financial institutions that are equivalent to 60% of the gdp of america,

you know what? let's be honest. you can't regulate that. >> you break up the banks. >> absolutely. absolutely. if they're too big to fail they're too big to exist. they are issuing 50% of the mortgages and two-thirds of the credit cards in this country. if teddy roosevelt were the president, what do you think he'd do? >> probably do that. >> okay. >> senator sanders, stay with us. we've got more to come. follow us on facebook and watch my facebook feature, give mef a minute and my video podcast at ed.com. details from baltimore, freddie gray's case emerge. more with senator sanders on "the ed show." new york state is reinventing how we do business by leading the way on tax cuts. we cut the rates on personal income taxes. we enacted the lowest corporate tax rate since 1968. we eliminated the income tax on manufacturers altogether. with startup-ny, qualified businesses that start, expand or relocate to new york state pay no taxes for 10 years. all to grow our economy and create jobs.

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protests and marches in baltimore and in philadelphia tonight. we'll bring you the latest coming up. but first, more with senator bernie sanders.

what's his background? what are his answers like through the years and what's his focus? that's all coming up. stay with us. r here on "the ed show." we monitor network traffic worldwide, so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what matters most.

welcome back to "the ed show." he is a public servant who has not had a hard time telling people what he thinks and what he believes in. >> in 1981 i was persuaded by some friends to run for mayor of burlington, the largest city in our state. nobody but nobody thought that we had a chance to win. we did. >> today, everyone is talking about senator bernie sanders. but back in 1981, sanders won his first election by just 10 votes. >> i would like to see somebody who speaks for the underdog the people who don't have decent health care benefits. i would like to see who has the guts to have a vision not just the super rich. >> throughout the years, bernie

sanders message has been consistent. >> go to alabama, oklahoma should we cut social security and give tax breaks to billionaires? they will laugh at you. >> from the start, made headlines as unapologetic socialist and a champion of progressive causes. >> i think the reason we win and continue to win is that increasingly, people are frustrated and angry about a two-party system which is dominated by big money and which does not pay attention to the needs of working people or elderly people or poor people. >> bernie sanders moved up to the u.s. house of representatives in 1991. long before it was a hot button issue, sanders addressed income inequality in one of his first floor speeches. >> at the very least, we must demand that those individuals, the upper income have seen real income soar during the 1980s pay their fair share of taxes.

>> after 16 years serving vermont congressman, bernie made run for the senate and won. >> long overdue for united states senate and house to start representing the working families of america and not just the rich and the powerful. >> in 2010 sanders 8 hour filibuster against extending the bush era tax cuts helped him storm the national stage. >> we don't need to drive up the national debt by giving tax breaks to m >> now, sanders is running for president. in the face of big money and big name brands there's no doubt bernie sanders faces an uphill battle. but in progressive circles, sanders is celebrated as the underdog. he continues to find success by following a very simple formula. >> i think if you talk common sense to the people and you say that government is supposed to represent the needs of those people who today are not getting a fair shake, you know what?

they'll vote for you. >> from the mayor of burlington vermont, to the united states senate bernie sanders has taken an interesting and clear path. the senator joins me again this evening here on "the ed show." senator, we never talk about you that much. we're always talking about issues. why did you get into politics? why are you doing this for a living? >> you know ed i grew up in a lower middle class family. my dad came to this country from poland without a nickel in his pocket and never made much money. we lived in a 3.5 room rent controlled apartment in brooklyn before i moved to vermont. it was clear to me as a kid the impact that money had on my family the stress, the arguments that my parents had. seeing other kids having benefits that certainly other kids didn't have. and so understood the importance of income security the need for people to have a minimal

standard of living to enjoy the life they're entitled to. that's motivated me. >> that's motivated you throughout the years. >> i never forgot those experiences. >> some of the sound bites you had back iniester eryesteryear matched your philosophy to today. >> not again he's saying the same thing for 30 years, but -- >> your focus on issues is the same. >> the other thing the report indicated, more and more people are catching on. i was talking about these issues 20 years ago before it was popular but the issue of income and wealth inequality, not only an economic issue or political issue, it's a moral issue. it is a moral issue. and by the way, you know the guy who speaks about that? most forcefully in the world? it's pope francis. he raises this as a moral issue. are we content to have the highest rate in this country of childhood poverty and at the same time have the proliferation of millionaires billionaires? that is a moral issue and i think the american people say no, that's not who we are as a people. >> when you go to iowa and you say that what's your reaction? what's the reaction of the folks?

>> i got to tell you, it may be self-serving but the response has been extraordinary. not only in iowa all over the country. people are saying enough is enough. think about all the things we can do as a nation. we can't we guarantee health care to all people every other major country does it. in germany, other countries, college tuition is free. why isn't it free in america? why do we have the highest rate of childhood poverty when other countries have rates much lower than we have? why do we have pay equity for women workers? why are we leading the world in transforming our energy system in terms of climate change. we could do that are we dumb or lazy? not the case. >> i want to focus on college. it is expensive. it's exorbitant at this point. students get out, strapped with debt. the american dream escapes them early on if they'll ever own their own home and have any kind of financial independence. what would you do differently? >> i'll tell you what i would do.

we'll introduce legislation to do it. it will cost us about $70 billion a year of federal money or money in general to provide free tuition in every public college and university in america. $70 billion a year. republicans want to give $269 billion in tax breaks to the richest 5,000 families by eliminating the estate tax. lose $110 billion every year because corporations stash their money in the kaman islands and don't pay in federal taxes. if we're competitive in the global economy, we need the best educated workforce, we need to encourage kids to go to college, graduate school, regardless of their income. we can come up with that money and that's what i'll be for. >> what's on your schedule the next week? >> speak to the aflcio in new hampshire. we have a brunch in manchester new hampshire. we'll have a national tv show. we'll be working hard in the united states senate on the ranking member of the budget committee. this republican budget is beyond belief. tax breaks for billionaires

cuts for working families cuts for 27 million people for health insurance. we'll raise hell about that issue as well. >> senator bernie sanders, visit again. thank you so much. >> great to be with you. still on "the ed show," new information in the death of freddie gray. updates from reports in the field. across america, people are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza.

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welcome back to "the ed show." thanks for watching tonight. the official charging documents for freddie gray's april 12th arrest finally surfaced. msnbc's joy reid is in the crowd at a protest in baltimore tonight. she obtained the report earlier today and joins us. joy, what are the new developments? first of all, where are you and what are the new developments? >> reporter: we are in the middle of a very big march that started from two different points. one from the east side and one from the west side of baltimore and then sort of converged

together. walking towards city hall the march stretches quite down the other direction. on our way to city hall with enthusiastic baltimore residents. >> what are the new developments, what was in the arresting documents? >> reporter: so the documents are newot new, justwidely circulated. we gist obtained them at msnbc today. they indicated the charge that was going to be made against freddie gray was possession of a switchblade. it is illegal in the state of maryland to possess a knife with a spring attachment. the question is though how did police know to stop him for that? because the arrest the charging document said that the knife was found on the inside of his front pocket. so that means it wouldn't have been something that was exactly

visible. the document indicates he was transported to the police department with no incident and then he was injured at some point during the ride. it doesn't mention the stops we've heard about and it doesn't mention any details about those injuries, ed. >> okay. as you see on our screen tonight exactly what the charge would have been, what is the reaction to that information that has come out today from the folks in baltimore? so much police force was for such a minor detail. >> reporter: everything about this case elicits extreme skepticism. the people part of this march, growing movement are skeptical about the police account and the rumors and reports, leaks going to news o organizations like the washington post essentially blaming freddie gray for the injuries he suffered. there's a great deal of skepticism and people anticipating there won't be what these marchers want as justice.

i think we're all just sort of waiting for the information to filter out to those part of this movement. >> all right. joy reid reporting on "the ed show" tonight from the streets of baltimore where the marches are taking place. thank you, joy. we'll be back to you later in this broadcast. we'll have more from baltimore with msnbc reporter trymain lee after this. [phone rings] [man] hello,totten designs. sales department? yes...i can put you right through. sales department-this is nate. human resources. technical support. hold please. [announcer]you work hard to grow your business. [man] yes!i can totally do that for you. [announcer]our new online business planning tools will help your business thrive. wells fargo.together we'll go far.

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that flows through all things... through rocky spires... [♪] and ocean's swell... [♪] the endless... stillness of green... [♪] and in the restless depths of human hearts... [♪] the voice of the wild within. welcome back to "the ed show." we continue our coverage from baltimore tonight and we have some breaking news in the new details in the investigation surrounding freddie gray's death. after being reported abc's washington affiliate, wjla is reporting gray's fatal injuries were not caused during his video

taped arrest. wjla is citing multiple law enforcement sources who say his injury was caused when he slammed into something in the police van that he was traveling in. apparently breaking his neck. sources also say a head injury he sustained matches a bolt in the back of the van. meanwhile, nbc affiliate wbal's jane miller had an interview with a prisoner who was in the police van with freddie gray. >> the morning of april 12th i went to the store to get a cigarette. you know what i mean? >> donte allen is a 22-year-old west baltimore resident picked up by city police the morning of april 12th on suspicion of a minor offense. it happened at the corner of pennsylvania and north avenues. the city's camera system showed picking up alan at the same time carrying freddie gray. alan did not know a man was already in the van. freddie gray was on the right side. alan was loaded on to the left

side. a solid divider separated them. in an interview, alan described what he heard. what did you hear? >> nothing. there was a smooth ride, we went straight to the police station. all i heard was a little banging for about four seconds, you know what i mean? i just heard a little banging, you know just little you know what i mean? boom boom just little banging. >> reporter: alan described what he told homicide detectives when questioned. did you tell the police you heard him banging his head against the van? >> i told homicide that. i don't work with the police. i did not tell the police nothing. >> reporter: there was no evidence gray hit his head against anything on his own. the fatal neck and spine injury akin to the type suffered in a car accident. it needed that amount of force and energy. sources told us by the time alan was loaded gray was unresponsive. you could see looking into gray's side of the van with doors fully open. medical experts say as gray's

condition deteriorated, he may have suffered seizures. alan told us what he did hear when van arrived. >> we got to the police station, they said he had no pulse or nothing. they call his name. mr. gray mr. gray. he wasn't responsive. >> joining us tonight on "the ed show," jane miller investigative reporter for nbc affiliate wbal. thank you for your time tonight. what did you learn from the other prisoner? >> well, i think what we learned from the other prisoner is that what accounts in the search warrant affidavit reported by the washington post that becomes the headline you know that freddie gray may have injured himself and you got to kind of walk that back. the second prisoner, donte allen, can't see mr. gray. said to us he didn't even know he was in there. i think what's important is to understand that what we have reported, put all the pieces

together prior to mr. allen picked up there was a stop on the van because the van driver suspected, it appears suspected nothing was wrong and called for other officers to come and check the prisoner. at that point, according to police commanders those officers should have called for a medic. they didn't. they then go one way and double back to pick up mr. allen. what we have reported according to sources is that when officers opened that door, you can see them do and look in the van with the door wide open mr. gray was unresponsive. so what is it that donte allen is hearing on that part of the trip? according to medical experts, when you suffer this kind of injury, that severe neck and spinal injury which is slowly taking the breath out of you because that part of your neck the upper part of your area controls your breathing, you may suffer seizures and that may be what the noise was that donte allen

was hearing. there is no evidence in the autopsy that suggests that freddie gray slammed head on his own. he would have other injuries on him to indicate that and they don't exist. >> jane how is the community reacting? so many questions to what happened inside that van. >> reporter: well ed i think, you know first of all, there was video of the initial arrest which looked to be painful and it probably was because the procedure police use on a pavement like that doesn't feel good. so a lot of attention went to that. oh, you know, they broke his leg. they did something to him there that our reporting from the beginning really focused on what went on inside the van. so the other thing that has happened here is that two weeks ago, the city's police commissioner set that may 1st date which was taken by a lot of people in the city to mean by may 1st we have all the

answers. and, you know, whatever was going to happen by may 1st in terms of who, what when and wear happen by may 1st. that was an unreasonable expectation. that doesn't mean something couldn't happen by then but certainly the end of this case is not going to happen on may 1st. so that expectation, they really tried to back down from that but i think there are people very concerned about what is the expectation in the community versus what the reality is of an investigation like this. >> all right. investigative reporter from wbal, jane miller with us here on the ed show. i want to bring in trymaine lee joining us live from baltimore. trymaine this story that's developing now about what may or may not have happened in the back of the van, this has to be spreading through the community. what kind of reaction are you hearing? >> reporter: oh, certainly one part is disbelief. people from the very beginning

didn't believe that freddie gray in any way caused his own injuries. many say they believe the police are kind of trying to see the ground and they expect that. but one thing i heard over and over again, freddie gray never should have been in police custody in the first place. they wonder why he was detained in the first place, being that from the report they said initially made eye contact and he ran off. so that's a problem for many people out here who are saying that the police routinely stop black people and young black men in particular for petty offenses. said we don't know all the facts, but we do know freddie gray is dead and he shouldn't be. >> you had to chance to go out on the street today and talk to some people. what did you hear? >> reporter: you get the whole range of emotions. one is that they want the process to be transparent. they want answers. they want this process to move smoothly so that everyone can move on because, again, emotions are still very much on edge. even though we've had a few days

of calm people are anxious and concerned. they want justice and they want answers. let's take a look at what some of the folks had to say on the ground. >> all right. we did not have that videotape. they had it queued up but if you could just tell us, are emotioning starts starting to ramp up now that police have released investigative details and some discrepancies in the report and what folks or eyewitnesses are saying, what about that? >> reporter: i'll tell you what ed. i don't get the sense emotions are ramping up any differently than the last few days but what you're seeing is a more coordinated effort in the protest. just now we walked from the west side, several hundred people and we joined another

group of several hundred from another direction. now we're headed towards city hall. so you don't see a flaring of any emotions different than the last couple of days but a more concerted effort to unify and push for answers. individually, people are upset about the way things are playing out. but again, they're more determined than ever to keep pushing, keep protesting. again, these crowds continue to get bigger and more organized from yesterday's diverse crowd of college students to this the majority of black crowd today. >> trymaine the national guard presence. is that still the same as its been in recent nights? what about tonight? >> >> reporter: i tell you what's been interesting. even though we know there's upward of 2,000 or so national guard troops here their presence, you don't really see them out there. you don't see a certain force. it doesn't seem like they're impacting the general environment at all aside from, you know, a few streets here a few streets there cloefzedsed off with weapons but their presence

not necessarily being felt and what's also interesting with this march from the west side it was led by police and backed by police but you didn't see any real massing along the side. it's kind of a far walk. it's a few miles walk but their presence is little to none. but the crowd has been peaceful large and exuberant but peaceful no problems. >> trymaine lee, msnbc national reporter this evening from baltimore. we keep an eye on baltimore. we'll have more on the latest details and news in the freddie gray case coming up next. stay with us. ♪ ♪ when you're living with diabetes

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show" for continuing coverage of the protests and the marches that are taking place in cities around the country. you're looking live at philadelphia. the freddie gray case obviously, taken on a life of its own and it's ignited a debate about so many facets of our society. there's leaking information, more private cameras that are supplying information to law enforcement and we do not know for sure what happened inside that van. for more on this let's go to paul henderson, veteran prosecutor and legal analyst. good to have you with us tonight. >> thank you for having me. >> based on what has unfolded today and new information out there, is trust an issue when it comes to investigative reports and basically these were leaking out? >> it absolutely is especially because we are dealing with an information vacuum.

the only information that we have are the videotapes that have come from the community and none of the agencies that are involved in involved in this incident. and at this point, now that we're starting to receive these tions than it provides answers. specifically because, now we're getting information that he may have had injured himself, mr. gray which i find a little incredulous, since he was bound and handcuffed, but that raises the question again, of should he have been had his seat belt on, while he was in the van, and what difference that would have made if any, and how is any of this information going to be corroborated without more information from the officers that were involved? which, again, now, this leads to the bigger question of what is going on with the officers that were involved because they are being evaluated from the state attorney general, who is investigating whether or not their charges should be brought.

and charges can also be brought against whomever has leaked some of these reports. because this is private and confidential information associated with ongoing investigations, so whomever is behind these reports could face misdemeanor or felony charges, depending on what they've released and what they've leaked if they can identify who is responsible. so i think it's a big deal and i know that the community is upset, this community and others, they're demanding more from our justice system, and really they're demanding two things things. they want transparency and they want accountability. and so far, in this case, they're getting neither. >> as a veteran prosecutor looking at this how would you get a conviction when it's hearsay inside the van? we really don't know what happened inside the van. >> you don't know what went on inside the van.

you'll get around some of the hearsay restrictions by having witnesses testify to excited utterances that they hear. so if they hear someone screaming, if they hear someone yelling out, if they hear someone in pain those are excited utterances. and then you will have the direct testimony from the officers who were involved who are able to articulate and say what they did and what they saw. and that won't be hearsay. and again, remember there are three different groupings of those officers specifically. those that were involved in the initial detention, the subsequent arrest, and then in the transportation. and then you'll overlay all of that evidence and all of that testimony to really find out what happened and then we'll bring in side evidence from the medical examiner that should corroborate some version of the story. we don't know because we don't have any consistent story.

again, because we're operating out of an informational vacuum. there is no information really being released that's helpful. >> and i quickly want to get your take on the private cameras that reveal that there was another stop made by the van. and to my knowledge, it was not revealed by the police officers. it was a videotape that showed that there was yet another van stop. doesn't that undermine, if that's the case undermine the credibility of the police officers? and i don't mean to pick on them, but how do you piece that together? i mean why wasn't that in the report? >> absolutely. that could be a real problem. so if in fact the outside evidence from the community shows that there were stops that were not indicated or clarified or recorded in the police report, that means something. that's not something that is inconsistent or just a mere inconsistency or a mistake that would be made in a big case like this. so, yes, that will come in and

it will challenge testimony or someone's report. >> all right. paul henderson, thanks for your time tonight. coming up on "the ed show," nbc's rahema ellis will give us an update on what to expect from baltimore tonight as the marches continue. stay with us. you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc. do we spend every waking moment, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience? why innovate for a future without accidents? why do any of it? why do all of it? because if it matters to you it's everything to us. the xc60 crossover. from volvo. lease the well equiped volvo xc60 today. visit your local volvo showroom for details. ♪ ♪ i am eric ripert and this is my squarespace. ♪ we come by almost every day to deliver your mail so if you have any packages

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and finally tonight, crowds are peacefully marching in the streets of philadelphia and in baltimore. for more on what is going on in baltimore, let's go to nbc's rahema ellis for a snapshot of

what is expected tonight. rahema? >> reporter: ed what's happening out here now, the weather has turned it's gotten windy and there is also rain falling. at the same time, we have a group of about 500 people. you can see them behind me here, right by the steps of city hall. they have got signs that say "justice for freddie gray," "black lives matter," and their hands are up. what they have said to me they want to know what's going on. they want information. a woman i was just talking to said the lack of information is creating anxiety among people. and they would rather know than not know. if you want to have people calm down she said tell them what's going on. ed? >> so there's a level of frustration growing amongst protesters that they want more information forthcoming. are you hearing that through the crowd? i mean does this seem to be a theme that is taking on right now in the last 24 hours?

>> reporter: absolutely. but i don't think it's only in the last 24 hours. i've been hearing this ever since i got here at the beginning of the week. people were saying they want to know. as you know freddie gray this situation with him happened at the beginning of april, april 12th. we're now looking at april 30th. so it has, a while that people are saying tell us what is happening. and the lack of information, to them, is something that makes them feel uncomfortable, suspicious, weary of whether or not they're going to get information, when they'll get it, and what kind of information it will be. will it be the truth, as one person said? and everything as far as the truth is concerned? >> faith leaders in the community are certainly pleading with the people to remain peaceful for the third straight night. rahema ellis reporting live from baltimore tonight here on "the ed show." thanks so much. the faith leaders doing all they can to make sure that this night of marches comes off without

incident. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. >> good evening, ed. and thanks for you for tuning in. i'm live tonight in baltimore with breaking news. right now, we're seeing the first protests since police handed findings from their investigation to the state's attorney. we're also hearing for the first time from the passenger, dante alan, who shared the police van with freddie gray. he spoke to wblal's jane miller. >> alan did not know a man was already in the van. freddie gray was on the right side alan was loaded on to the left side. a solid divider separated them. in an interview, alan described what he heard. once you got in the van, what did you hear? >> when i got in the van, i didn't hear