you can count on nationwide. ♪ love ♪ because what's precious to you is precious to us. ♪ love is strange ♪ just another way we put members first. join the nation. ♪ baby... ♪ ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ this morning, my question if wall street is back should the rest of us be worried? plus, the army veteran who survived two tours in iraq only to die after two days in a texas jail. and the role of women on tv. but first, six police officers indicted by a grand jury in baltimore. good morning. i'm dorian warren in for melissa. this time a grand jury chose to indict. on thursday a baltimore grand

jury indicted the six police officers involved in the arrest and charged in the subsequent death of 25-year-old freddy gray. baltimore states attorney marilyn mosby delivered the news. >> these past two weeks my team has been presenting evidence to a grand jury that just today returned indictments against all six officers for the following offenses. officer cesar goodson jr., second degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter. second degree negligent assault. officer william porter involuntary manslaughter second degree negligent assault. lieutenant brian rice involuntary manslaughter second degree negligent assault, officer edward nero second degree intentional assault. officer garrett miller second degree intentional assault, sergeant alicia white, involuntary manslaughter second degree negligent assault. >> indictments against six police officers.

it's a decision that drastically diverges from a narrative of grand jury decisions in ferguson and staten island. after michael brown died prosecutor bob mccullough chose not to bring charges against darren wilson. instead he left the decision up to a grand jury. in november the grand jury chose not to indict wilson. after eric garner died they did not charge the officers who placed him in a choke hold. they left that decision in the hands of a grand jury. that grand jury did not invite. police officers rarely face criminal charges for on-duty shootings. only 41 officers were charged with murder or manslaughter for on-duty shootings over a seven year period ending in 2011. by contrast the fbi reported 2,718 justifiable homicides by law enforcement during that same seven-year span. what's different about the

baltimore case is not just na the grand jury did indict the officers involved in gray's death. it's that each of the six had already been charged on may 1st. unlike her counterparts in ferguson and staten island marilyn mosby filed charges against the officers herself. >> the findings of our comprehensive, thorough and independent investigation coupled with the medical examiner's determination that mr. gray's death was a homicide which we received today, has led us to believe that we have probable cause to file criminal charges. >> unlike prosecutors in ferguson or staten island she did not quell public unrest by saying she would launch an investigation. instead she said this. >> to the people of baltimore and the demonstrators across america, i heard your call for no justice, no peace. your peace is sincerely needed as i work to deliver justice on behalf of this young man.

>> unlike prosecutors in ferguson or staten island she did not pass the grand jury a heap of evidence and legal documents to sift through. she'd already rememberedndered her legal opinion as a prosecutor. each of the officers posted bail and have been free since. after two weeks of hearing evidence from prosecutors, the grand jury returned charges similar to those mosby brought on may 1st. one key difference was the removal of false imprisonment charge. the grand jury added a reckless endangerment charge. the driver of the police van cesar goodson jr. still faces the most serious charge. second degree hart murder. with me at the table daven love co-founders of leaders of a struggle. and publisher of color

lines.com, bob herbert, and john shane, associate professor at john jay college of criminal justice and a retired captain of the new york police department. but first, seema ire host of "the docket." help us understand what happened with these indictments and what happens next. >> okay dorian. first of all we were scheduled to go to court on this case on wednesday, may 27th. what ms. mosby did was not only convene the grand jury but no one knew what was happening, which is smart because it eliminated any protesters or media frenzy. that's the first thing. the next time they go to court is july 2nd and that's for arraignment. that means the formal charges will be read out and they'll enter pleas assumingly of not guilty. now what happened in that grand jury? two things could have happened. now, we see that the false imprisonment has been removed

from the initial charges. this is what i suspect. the false part of the imprisonment was based on the knife. ms. mosby, and i'm sure you remember from that initial conference, said that freddy gray was not carrying an illegal knife. that remains in concontention. because she said it was a switchblade knife, which is not illegal in maryland. but the police never said it was a switchblade. they said it had an automatic spring which actually is illegal under baltimore city law. to remove any issue with that either the grand jury decided or she didn't present that false imprisonment charge because it's based again on the falsity of the knife. okay? so now moving forward, the reckless endangerment it's almost a catch-all. it's basically saying the defendants did something that put the victim at some type of serious, grave risk. >> so seema, how significant it

is that a grand jury chose to indict? and i'm wondering if you were surprised by this? >> i was surprised by the secrecy, actually, of it that we didn't know this was happening. however, i'm not surprised they indicted. they should have indicted. she went in and presented the case. i imagine with an aim towards an indictment. and when a prosecutor does that dorian, they get an indictment. so it's completely what is supposed to happen and we shouldn't be surprised. we should be grateful. >> what's the reaction been to the indictment in baltimore? >> well most people are happy that, you know we have a context where you see freddie gray and the video of him screaming being in pain and people's natural response was that we were happy that there were charges rendered on the officers, but important to remember and i think those of us in baltimore on the ground know that an indictment doesn't necessarily address the structural and legal mechanisms

that underlie the ability to have account of law enforcement. it undermines the ability to get access to information needed to hold law enforcement responsible. it allows the community to be substantively involved in the administration of law enforcement in their communities. that's the long-term battle that we're fighting to address the structural issues that make this problem such an issue in baltimore. >> john, i want to get a police perspective. how does this affect the officers especially when a fellow officer is indicted on such drastic charges. >> quite drastically. the secrecy surrounding the process gives rise to rumor and there's innuendo. right now the facts are not clear. they seem to be clear from the prosecutor's perspective but different from the defense perspective. that will result in a slowdown of sort. police officers are laden with discretion. they get a lot of leeway to work.

they have general operating guideline, and they operate within the law, obviously. but when their actions are second guessed at virtually every turn they are not going to react favorably. and i think that's what you're going to see in a very short time in baltimore. there might be some of that right now, although i don't have any data to evidence it. but there's an uptick in violence and shootings and that may be related to a pullback from officers who will say if at every turn i'll be questioned about my right to inquire or putting my hands on someone even in the most root even circumstances, i'll avoid it. >> we'll come back to that point about the police seeing efforts in baltimore. but does this feel like baltimore might mark a turning point in how police shootings are handled? >> well i don't know. i think it's important to keep in mind that it's an indictment and these are not convictions. i'm not sure that these are easy cases to prove especially on the most serious charges. you can get a mixed verdict.

baltimore has to worry about what the reaction of the community might be if these officers or some of them are acquitted. in terms of a turning point in the kind of policing baltimore gets, i don't really thing sok so. i think there is not enough interest and certainly not the will to do the kinds of things to turn policing around the way it should be in this country. it would take a lot of money, a big effort and that effort would have to be sustained. i don't see evidence that's going to occur. >> seema, we'll get you in the next block. before you go i want you to talk to us about what you know about this case so far in terms of how marilyn mosby was able to get the indictments. how likely is she able to get convictions of the officers in this case? >> i'm glad he brought that up. let me point out, the reckless endangerment it's a

misdemeanor, but it's five years prison, so a lot of legal experts have been talking that's why they put reckless endangerment in because if there is the situation where they go to trial, which i imagine they will. i don't think any of these officers is going to take a plea. they go to trial and somebody's found not guilty of a manslaughter, of a murder. reckless endangerment has that catch-all and that would get five years prison at the top. obviously, they could probably get something a lot less. so it's very different between indictment and trial, and we have to wait and see. >> seema iyer thank you for your legal input. we'll see you in the next hour. you're looking for a car that drives you... ...and takes the wheel right from your very hands... ...this isn't that car.

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thursday on the same day six baltimore police officers were indicted by a grand jury in the death of freddie gray baltimore reached its 100th murder of the year. the city has seen one murder a day since gray died after sustaining injuries while in police custody. the homicide rate in the western district where gray was arrested is up 200% from the rate reported at this time last year. despite the increase in crime, police have made fewer arrests. the week before gray's death baltimore police arrested 682 people compared to the most recent data that shows baltimore police officers making 339 arrests in one week. baltimore police commissioner anthony batts says his officers are having trouble policing the community because of crowds. >> when officers pull up to respond to a call they have 30 to 50 people surrounding them at any given point in time. you have many citizens with handheld cameras that they're sticking in the faces of the

officers about an inch off the officer's face. >> this week the baltimore sun published a new video of freddie gray's arrest. it was shot on the cell phone of a witness who remains anonymous. on the video you can see the officers grabbing gray's legs in an attempt to get him in the van. lots of questions about policing happening now. but i want to come to you first and ask what role has the black lives matter movement played in policing and in the aftermath of freddie gray's death in baltimore. >> the black lives matter movement has completely changed the dynamics between police and communities and communities of color really. they're entitled to respect and safety when they have encountered with police. and they're no longer willing to take an officer's word for it that those things were present in that encounter. i think as this community moves forward, it's hard for me to imagine that the baltimore police department is genuinely surprised by this reaction. and if they are surprised, it speaks really to the level, the

lack of scrutiny that police officers are accustomed to and used to and now expect. i think as the community moves forward, the vague notion of community engagement or dialogue will be satisfying here. for systemic chamg you have to get into the granularities of how a police department runs how it trains uses force, all of that has to be on the table. until that kind of scrutiny of racial impact of all those practices is really part of the discussion i think the police departments everywhere can expect more and more crowds and people videotaping them and watching. >> reports of crowds who have come with cameras. dayvon, i want to ask you in terms of people filming police trying to do their job, are police being hindered? reports show that there's been a

slowdown of arrests in the city. do you see any evidence of that? >> i want to demystify the relationship between the activism and heightened scrutiny of law enforcement and the violence that we're seeing in baltimore. you know typically, you have spikes of violence that happen in any given year particularly going into the summertime. and i think it's important for us to remember that there are structural conditions that create the context for the kinds of violence that we see in our communities and not just the violence that we see that happens as a result of gun violence but all the different forms of violence that are a result of the lack of access to the necessities that people need to create a good quality of life. it's important to put that in context. i think it's really important for people to keep in mind that when we're talking about policing, it is not a sustainable strategy for the kind of public safety that's been administered in communities. you have to have people from the communities that are the ones directing the trajectory as to how law enforcement is

administered. the problem is that you have police unions you have institutions that are outside of the community trying to dictate a framework for policing folks in a context where many of them don't even understand the soshial political context of people in the indiananeighborhoods. what happens is we frame it as community/police relations when it's something much deeper. it's about people having to develop the expertise in the community they're enforcing. many of us are socialized to see black folks as criminals. in that context, it creates a context where you don't have effective policing. >> let me get you in here to talk about the perspective of the officers. six of their own indicted. crowds gathering on routine calls, cell phone cameras. how does this affect the morale and effectiveness? >> it drives it way down. policing is laden with discretion. police officers go into a situation and they formulate a

plan and they're going to execute certain tactics, and there could always be an alternative to doing something. because they're constantly looked at and they're going to be filmed and someone's going to second guess their actions, thissy say to themselves why do i have to put myself through this unless it's absolutely necessary. instead of taking the assertive role of being proactive of arresting someone or doing something in a proactive manner to stop a crime, they avoid it and wait for the call to come. but when that happens, you wait and all you wind up doing is picking up the loser and that's never a good thing. i agree, embedded in that discussion has to be the way the police department is structured to react to local conditions. i don't think it necessarily means that you have to have officers living in the community or from the community. there's no research at all that shows that an officer that lives here performs better than one that does not. and those things are all part of how we recruit, how we train and how we deploy our tactics. >> so much more to say on this.

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this week the white house took steps to address the policing issues brought to light in the past year. on monday the president's task force on 21st century policing released a series of tactics for police departments around the country to improve community policing. president obama also announced that the federal government will be banned from providing some military equipment to police departments. he will also tighten restrictions on weapons distributed to local police. on tuesday, the president signed another measure aimed at policing officially named for raphael ramos and wenjian lu. it will be similar to amber alerts used when a child is abduct abducted. but this would focus on detaining anyone who harms or threatens to harm an officer.

i will ask you first, will this blue alert system help facilitate safe and effective community policing. >> i think it can work. there will be implementation issues. amber alert has been shown to work in certain circumstances but not through the stranger to stranger crime that you might think. so how well this has played out, how well it's rolled out will have implications for how it does. but i think there's value there. the idea of broadcasting in at least a region if not across the nation someone that is threatening law enforcement officers can go a long way in establishing trust between communities. >> why is this blue alert system so controversial? there have been many criticisms of this since it was announced on tuesday. >> i don't find it to be that controversial but i also don't find it to be that big of a deal. the controversy comes with the idea of someone 40who makes an alleged threat for example, how much scrutiny or attention do they get and were they really

serious threats? but from covering too many cases where police officers were killed over the years, when an officer is shot or killed or otherwise harmed there's no problem in getting all the resources of law enforcement together to go after the criminals who did that. so i don't think the blue alert system will help that much in those cases. >> i want to turn to the military gear and dayvon here's what president obama had to say in announcing his recommendations on federal banning of military gear. let's take a listen. >> we've seen how militarized gear can sometimes give people a feeling like there's an occupying force as opposed to a force that's part of the community that's protecting them and serving them. can alienate and intimidate local residents an send the wrong message. >> with people in baltimore and communities that have dealt with police in military gear agree with the president? and is this ban good enough? >> i think -- i mean relating

to the blue alert conversation to me it further lets me know that people don't understand really the crux of the issue. banning militarized equipment for law enforcement i think is a good first step but i think we have to look at the fundamental issue, which is that many people in the community feel like they're being occupied by occupied force, right, that doesn't have their interests at heart in terms of thinking about the other things that affect the communities that police officers are made responsible for addressing. and i think it's important for us to look at the context we're in. we're in a society structurally on the principal of white supremacy. people internalize the notion na black folks' lives are disposable. if we saw this kind of violence being exacted on the children of white folks we would see more of protests and outcry from the white community that in many regards is unwilling to make the criticism of institutional

racism of law enforcement because there's an image and symbolism that people have projected on to those folks that is deemed as pathological. it's important for us to have that conversation. because until we really get to the crux of that then everything else is just band-aids. >> rinku, i want to get you in here and talk about the spreading of the black lives matter campaign. this week it was say her name. will the names of these victims become a growing part of the movement? >> i think they definitely will. what worries me about the blue alert system actually is that it may or may not be so helpful in resolving threats against police officers. there is already a lot of attention if officers are killed or harmed. and i worry that this particular move creates a false equivalency in the storyline about deaths of

police officers and deaths caused by police officers. and those two things are not equal numerically. "the washington post" reported earlier this month that there have been ten officers killed in the course of this year nationally. in los angeles alone the lapd has killed 14 people in that period of time. a great number of the people killed by the police are going to be women and trans people and lgbt people. so i think that notion of what are equivalent crimes here and what requires systemic attention is really the way in which the blue alert system feels like a distraction to me in a debate that has many dimensions and many explicitly racial and gender dimensions. >> we'll continue to talk about those dimensions of policing on this show. up next we'll bring in the artist of this photo.

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the photographs i'm about to show you are meant to shock you. they're meant to make you think. not only for what they portray but how they portray it. what do you feel looking at this image? angry, sad, confused? do you feel a sense of vindication when you see this depiction of a klan member being lynched? at the andrew weiss gallery entitled historical fiction, artist tyler shields explores what our country would look like if the bodies in all-too familiar scenes swap places. he's no stranger to controversy. he previously angered animal rights activists by setting fire to a crocodile bag.

he joins me from los angeles. how are you doing? >> doing good. >> thanks for joining us and thanks for this incredible project. why now and why this project? what made you decide to take on the issue of race so explicitly? >> it's something i grew up with. i grew up in the south. when i was a kid, i actually saw, you know the kkk have a rally. and i remember -- i didn't know what it was. i was so young, i was probably 5 or 6. i thought they were just dressed up as clowns honestly. i was just a child. i didn't know the difference. as you grow up in that you kind of realize that there's a lot of people who are extremely racist. this is something that happens all the time. and i think it was from my childhood that i thought why. i didn't really understand it. what would it be like kind of the other way around. and it took me kind of my whole life to get to a place to really be able to do this and have it be on the level that it deserves to be on. >> what's the goal of this art,

is it to provoke, is it to inform? >> i think that what was interesting about this is i created it just to ask a question. and it has gone even further than i could have ever anticipated. >> what was that question? >> the question is what would it be like -- would people still do this to other people if it happened to them? >> and talk to me about the reactions you've gotten thus far? >> what's interesting is people have said this is the most powerful photo that i've ever seen, not just for me but just in general they've said this is the most powerful image that i've ever seen in my life. which is a fantastic response obviously. >> so let me come to the table and get a bit of reaction. >> sure. >> john, i'll come to you and ask you first as a former law enforcement officer, i'm curious to get your opinion on tyler's photo of the police officer. what's your reaction? >> i don't think it's going to contribute to a healthy discussion about the mature

conversation that needs to take place like we were talking at the break. the structural issues that need to take place in policing. it seems more sensational. and clearly artistic. and he's free to do it within his first amend right to do it. but i don't see that that's going to contribute to something really, really important. >> i wonder about the lynching photo in particular because that's the one that was most striking to me. what's your reaction to that dayvon? >> two things. one i think it's important for people to see images of that i think to resonate the horrors of the kinds of violence that people feel when you think about the issue of police brutality. but i think even more importantly i think sometimes we think that racism is about having to lynch someone, right? i think we need to see these photos as a paradigm as to how we interpret things that are happening around us right? for instance, one of the things we're dealing with in maryland

is a democratic party leadership, right, that you wouldn't think is -- you wouldn't characterize as race is, right? you wouldn't characterize as people that hate black people but in terms of the unwillingness to make amendments to law enforcement officer bill of rights a lack of urgency about the fact that there are black folks and brown folks that are being victimized by police pruittality and you have people like the president of our senate senate mike miller who is in leadership and isn't willing to move the type of legislation that would make substancive change for me this kind of artwork that uses the pair radio dime to interpret the things we see. >> do you worry about inciting violence or a violent backlash to your art? >> no what's interesting about that. i don't think anybody is going to look at one of these photos and think, that looks fun, i want to do that. i think it has the opposite effect where you look at something like that and you say i really don't want that to happen to me and i don't want to do that to anyone else.

>> thank you to tyler shields in los angeles, and here in new york thank you to dayvon love and john shane. bob and rinku are sticking around. wall street is back and banks are having to pay billions for wrong-doings, should the rest of us be worried? plus 10 gigs of shareable data. yeah, 10 gigantic gigs. for $80 a month. and $15 per line. more data than ever. for more of what you want. on the network that's #1 in speed, call, data, and reliability. so you never have to settle. $80 a month. for 10 gigs. and $15 per line. stop by or visit us online. and save without settling. only on verizon.

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♪ i'll stand by you ♪ ♪ won't let nobody hurt you ♪ isn't there a simpler way to explain the loyalty program? yes. standing by you from day one. now, that's progressive. this week five of the world's biggest banks pleaded guilty to charges that they rigged the foreign exchange market for their own profit. the banks agreed to pay a total of $5.6 billion in fines to a variety of regulators including the u.s. justice department. now according to the plea deal a group of traders used secret chat rooms to collude on fixing foreign exchange ratesp they did this nearly every day for five years manipulating one of the largest financial markets in the world. the foreign exchange market sees 5 trillion trillion with a "t" in trading every day. they refer to themselves as the cartel and the mafia. one vice president of barclays

was quoted in plea deal documents as saying if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. attorney general loretta lynch announced the plea deal on wednesday. >> the penalty that all of these banks will now pay is fitting considering the long-running and egregious nature of their anti-competitive conduct. it should deter competitors in the future from chasing profits without regard to fairness to the law or public welfare. >> this is the latest in a wideranging international investigation into one of world's least regulated financial market. also the latest evidence that wall street is back to its old shady dealings or that it's never changed its ways in the first place. a new survey found that unethical behavior is still pervasive. 23% reported personally observing or having firsthand knowledge of misdeeds. that number jumps to 34% when looking at only those earning more than $500,000.

in the meantime the wall street reforms design to protect the economy from a future crisis are being weakened bit by bit. president obama signed a law that will allow big banks to use taxpayer money to back up the kind of deals like derivatives that led to the past crisis. it undid a key part of the dodd/frank reform law. it was a victory for the financial services industry. there are other signs that wall street is bouncing back. starting salaries for recent college graduates are up to $85,000 a year. the first time the base salary has increased substantially in years. for college grads in general, the median starting salary is about half of that. it seems like wall street has recovered but the question is what about the rest of america. joining the table are a fellow at the institute and author of "rewriting the rules of the american economy." and correspondent for the

street.com. mike, i want to ask you first, are withy back to where we were seven years ago? >> wall street is back. it is about as large as where it was before and it's about as profitable as it was before. you know the activities are different. it seems like there's a lot less mortgage dealing but there are a lot of shady things that we're seeing that people are genuinely worried about. people are worried that the consequences for these actions aren't robust enough or broad enough to really change the behavior inside these firms. >> scott you cover the street. is there a sense on wall street itself that wall street is back and is the culture different there before the crisis or even after the cries? >> let's put this into perspective a little bit. these foreign exchange, these crimes we're talking about, we're talking about 20 traders here. so yes, these are bad apples but compared to wall street overall, these 20 traders really were responsible for bringing down this department. but i wouldn't necessarily say that wall street is back to the old nen shan igens that they

were reportedly to be up to before the crisis. keep this in mind. we're only talking about 20 bad apples here across all of wall street. >> i'm wondering about the deterrence effect of this. the doj has these guilty pleas, the fines, will this be enough to stop the banks from engaging in antitrust violations or any other kinds of ethical behavior? >> zero deterrence effect. the fines will be seen as a cost of doing business. the thing that strikes me about this behavior even though it was a small number of individuals, is that it gives the lie to this idea that there's some kind of free market. the market is rigged. and the fact that the market is rigged in most cases legally is the reason why the folks at the top are doing so well and everybody else is struggling. >> so rinku, i'm going to switch gears a little bit here and talk about kansas. because kansas recently passed a law that limits people who

receive welfare benefits only taking out $25 a day no more than once a day. between that the president signing a watering down of dodd/frank it's hard to feel that policymakers are on the side of the people versus on the side of the banks. am i wrong about that? >> no i think you're right about that. if you just consider in this particular situation, it will be a miracle if any of these people actually goes to jail if anybody does prison time. they got billions in fines but they made billions in profit. so i think in the context of this discussion we've been having about crime and policing it's really obvious whose crimes we consider to be really bad. stolen cigars carrying a switchblade, those are crimes that can get you killed whereas, in this case negatively affecting the currencies in the economies of poor countries around the world gets you -- will get you no jail time. and i think that we've seen the

racial wealth gap continuing to grow the wealth gap grows in general, it is racialized and grows along ethnic lines. the pew research center reported that the gap between white wealth and black wealth went up between 2010 and 2014. went up by like 5 percentage points. so from it used to be eight times white people have the wealth of black folks and now it's 14 times. so those kinds of trends are what is causing fast food strikes, what's causing retail workers to organize around the country, what is causing local communities of workers to demand $15 an hour. and those are the places where we really need to pay attention and make structural change. >> i want to come back to that. i want to ask mike about what you said in terms of equality. lots of studies over the past couple of weeks. they released a study and found

that in the u.s. the average income of the top 10% was 19 times higher than that of the bottom 10%. but in the u.s. the top 10% owns around 76% of all net wealth. the financial crisis has exacerbated the concentration of wealth according to the report. talk to me about what inequality does to our country. >> i want to go back for one quick second. a big thing about mass incarceration, if you're convicted of a felony you can't vote, you are denied many government service, you're denied many professional careers. before this settlement went through, they obtained waivers saying they would not be excluded from any kinds of financial activities which normally comes with these things. so radically different kind of criminal conviction. that's the rules of how those things are set up and those rules percolate into massive political and economic inequality. you have a situation where the finances doubled its share of the top 1%. when we talk about the growth of the top 1% we're really talking about finance, we're talking about ceos. we're talking about workers

particularly in the last 15 years really being left behind. these are a series of choices. they're a series of the way the financial rules have been set up and the way they're being enforced that amplify these built-in inequalities. >> more on this when we come back. heart health. you watch your diet, excercise... and may take an omega-3 supplement, such as fish oil. but when it comes to omega-3s, it's the epa and dha that really matter for heart health. not all omega-3 supplements are the same. introducing bayer pro ultra omega-3 from the heart health experts at bayer. with two times the concentration of epa and dha as the leading omega-3 supplement. plus, it's the only brand with progel technology proven to reduce fish burps. new bayer pro ultra omega-3. looking for one of these?

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and find answers to your questions. you can even check your connection status on your phone. now it's easier than ever to manage your account. get started at xfinity.com/myaccount this week los angeles city council voted to raise the minimum wage for workers to $15 by 2020 a $6 increase in five years. one union-backed study estimated that such an increase will affect more than 700,000 people. nearly 40% of all workers in the city. los angeles is the second largest city in the country making this perhaps the biggest victory in the campaign by unions and others to increase wages for the lowest paid workers. also this week an estimated 2,000 people protested outside mcdonald's during the company's

annual shareholder meeting. they demanded a $15 an hour wage and the right to unionize. scott, let me come out to you first and ask you what's wall street's reaction to raising the minimum wage in l.a. and are there other ways to raise wages for low-wage workers? >> wages obviously have remained very weak for quite some time. we're seeing average hourly earnings rise in the average of 2% every year. yet inflation is at about 1.8%. those two are really not working for most of the middle class, but the concerns with raising the minimum wage are putting restrictions on small businesses who provide the bulk of the jobs in the country and there are concerns that if you raise the minimum wage you'll see more layoffs in that space. there are studies that show the opposite. but wall street is obviously looking at this from a shareholder point of view and they're trying to maximize value for their shareholders. and if they see costs rise, that

will force them to make up that revenue in other ways. >> talk to me about the opposition, the studies, who is hurt by a higher minimum wage? >> let's talk about who is helped. that will affect 30 to 40% of the l.a. workforce. they'll see a substantial raise, 20 to 30%, so it's big. these are not affluent teenagers. the median wage of the wage people are going to gain is about 33. overwhelmingly people of color. so this really does help people who have seen as scott brought up, their wages decline or be stagnant for a generations. temp work health care restaurants and retail. these are industries that really need to be close to where the action is right? you can't just move it across the border outside l.a. in the same way as you could for some businesses. >> these are sticky situations that cannot move. it is not mobile capital, what we like to call sticky capital.

>> it is a big raise but over a period of time. it will fall on a lot of businesses that at the end of day this will be 1% operating cost. real estate prices will more than swamp this as an actual thing on the bottom line. >> so something mike says rings a bell. i know you have a thought on this. you said this wo affect mostly workers of color. should minimum wage fights be seen as a racial justice issue and be frameded in that way? >> it is more than that, but it is a racial justice issue. we were talking about the banks and the high rollers and that sort of thing and inequality. but there's a direct link between that and what we've been seeing in places like ferguson and bolt more these are communities that have not had enough jobs are not making enough money, where despair prevails in many cases and eventually you get frustration. because inequality is a destabilizing factor in a society. it's the main reason. and what we're seeing now is not just low wage workers any more but the middle class that's

being affected by it. >> there's also corporate policy change. and i want to look at what facebook announced last week. they announced a package of changes for all their employees, benefits include a $15 minimum wage. minimum 15 paid days off for holidays, sick time and vacation, for those workers who don't receive paid parental leave, a new child benefit. these other benefits are they as important as wages for other workers? >> i think they are as important, actually. the time that you get to spend with your family and the quality of life that your family can have based on how many jobs the people in the family are working, that's really critical. and about a month race forward will be releasing a series of educational materials around racial and gender discrimination actually in those industries that you just mentioned, restaurant, retail and domestic work. and one effect that we can see of the constriction around wages

and benefits is that particular kinds of people get trapped in particular kinds of jobs and the mobility that we all should be able to expect from our labor and from our participation in the economy is simply not there for communities of color. so hopefully the local minimum wage changes will lead to look at the federal minimum wage. that's really what the movement is after ultimately. and i think that consumers are actually perfectly happy to pay that 1% to 2% more in restaurants, for example, so that people can get paid a living wage. >> so my thanks to mike and scott, ringu and bob herbert will be back in the next hour. a new video connected to the death of army sergeant james brown. and women on television from game of thrones to supergirl. i accept that i'm not 21. i accept i'm not the sprinter i was back in college. i even accept that i live with

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welcome back. i'm dorian in for melissa. a judge in cleveland, ohio has announced a not guilty verdict against cleveland police officer michael brelo. he was charged with two counts of involtaire manslaughter in a shooting in 2012. police engaged in a high speed car chase after they thought a gunshot came from their car. but authorities now believe the car simply backfired. when the car came to a stop 13 police officers unleashed a hail of 137 bullets. officer brelo was accused of jumping on the hood of the car and firing straight down into the windshield. we'll bring you the latest on this as it develops. now we turn to the story of sergeant james brown. 26-year-old army sergeant james brown listened in el paso texas, with his wife rachel stepson armani and jelaya. he served two tours of duty in

iraq. the soldier self-reported for a weekend drinking and driving sentence at the el paso county jail. he informed the jail if writing that he'd been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress syndrome. he called his mother and asked her to pay his court fine in lieu of jail time. but by the time his mother reached him, brown was in a hospital. by the end of the weekend he was dead. what happened to sergeant james brown? the family is now searching for that answer. vital information released has been obtained about this case has been obtained by station kfox. the video shows a jail personnel talking to brown through his cell door saying he wanted to get brown treated for a cut. when brown refused to respond a team in riot gear stormed the cell. upon being subdued brown repeatedly in distress said the words, i can't breet.

help me, i'm choking on my blood. he was sedated by injection. we're going to show you portions of that video first obtained by kfox. i want to warn viewers first that the footage is disturbing. >> i can't breathe. i'm choking on my blood. help me. i'm choking on my blood. >> what? >> i'm choking on my blood! i need water. please, take it off. take it off. oh, man, dude please take it off! >> the decorated army combat soldier was ultimately taken to the medical center where he was officially pronounced dead. autopsy results cited a cycle cell crisis. he declined but a spokesperson issued this statement agreeing with the autopsy.

mr. brown's death was an unfortunate tragedy. the sheriff's office has conducted a thorough review of the facts surrounding mr. brown's death and based upon all the evidence obtained determined that his death was caused by a pre-existing medical condition. the specific evidence cannot be discussed because of pending litigation. nearly three years since brown's death, his family is still left with lingering questions about the circumstances seen in this video. the family is suing the county of el paso for damages and wrongful death. their federal civil trial begins in october. joining me now bob herbert senior fellow at demos. and rinku sen. and joining me from seattle, washington, is sergeant brown's mother. and before we talk to ms. robinson-scott. i want to talk that during the course of this introduction we

had the sound cut off so she wouldn't have to listen to the sound of her son. we want to offer our condolences and thank you for your son's service on this memorial day weekend. what is the work that your family is now doing and what is the just that you seek? >> now we are seeking that the guards that did this to my son be held accountable and accept responsibilities for their actions. we are also in the process of trying to get legislation changed so that these policemen will be trained how to deal with military personnel that suffer from ptsd also that the military take a more -- a bigger stance when it comes to their personnel being held in city county federal facilities that

they will be walked through the process with military assistance. also that their investigative team be more active instead of just taking what the county has said as their investigation, that they do a thorough investigation. also that mental health be available for these soldiers that are suffering from ptsd. >> ms. robinson-scott, have you seen the video yourself? >> no i have approximately seen four seconds of the video and i cannot bear to watch any more than that. >> can you tell us what's been the response of the el paso county sheriff's office? >> nothing. we've heard nothing from them except for the false statement that sheriff wiles has made. >> according to your lawyer b.j. crow you are suing el paso county under the americans with disability act with ptsd as the

disability and suing for wrongful death and damages. el paso county has responded saying the county has insufficient information to determine the truth of the allegations under the heading factual background and deny that the death of mr. brown was caused by a constitutional deprivation, wrongful death or injury caused by the county. you had mentioned before about the military. does the military need to adopt some new policy procedures in regards to their soldiers being held in custody by an outside agency some. >> yes, they do. they should have been on the scene with him from the very beginning. had they been there, i don't think it would have been allowed to be escalated to the point that it was escalated to. it was very apparent that those guards weren't able to deal with the situation, and they just escalated it to an adverse level. >> why it is important to you

that the public sees this video? >> because they need to be aware that this goes on and that our soldiers need to be protected. and i want this to never happen to anyone again. no one should have to suffer the way that our family has suffered over the last three years. and i feel that each institution each county should be held accountable when they are housing our soldiers. i honestly don't believe that they should house them. i believe that should be a military responsibility. >> bob and rinku in watching the video, james said that he can't breathe. and it's impossible not to be reminded of eric garner whose death was also captured on video and who also stated that he couldn't breathe before his death. i'm wondering how important is it to understand sergeant brown as part of the black lives matter movement as well as a

movement around our veterans? >> the first thing that strikes me is in some of these cases what happens to the humanity of the individuals who are inflicting this kind of deadly force when it's obvious that something has gone so haywire? that's why it's so painful to watch it. and it seems that it's linked up to the black lives matter thing in the sense that it seems clear that in these cases the lives don't matter or in the news break, for example, where the police officers fired 130-some times into the car or in cleveland where they killed the 12-year-old boy, you know a couple of seconds after a cop gets out of the car, it means that they don't thing these lives matter. >> ms. robinson-scott how do you want your son to be remembered? >> i want him to be remembered as someone that served his country, that served two tours in iraq to protect our freedom and our rights. i want him to be remembered as a

hero, as a father a husband and a son that fought for his country. >> thank you, to dinetta robinson-scott. up next, an msnbc original report. seema iyer is here with the story of two prices, one more men and another for women. congratulations. you're down with crestor. yes! when diet and exercise aren't enough, adding crestor lowers bad cholesterol up to 55%. crestor is not for people with liver disease

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we reached out to pg&e to become more efficient. my job is basically to help them achieve their goals around sustainability and really to keep their overhead low. solar and energy efficiency are all core values of pg&e. they've given us the tools that we need to become more efficient and bottom line save more money. together, we're building a better california. over the years the wage gap between men and women has narrowed but it still persists. estimates cited by the white house say that the average american woman could lose up to $420,000 over her lifetime because of the earnings gap. in an effort to highlight the disparity a traveling pop-up

shop has introduced an unusual pricing model. men and women pay different prices. seema iyer host of the docket on shift went to pittsburgh to report. >> reporter: in pittsburgh pennsylvania funky new bars and art galleries are taking root in this old industrial steel town. we went to a pop-up shop that's part arts and crafts haven, part pliktal statement. and it's inspired by a discriminatory practice many say belongs in the past. i've got the honey. what are the honey prices? >> $12 for men and $10 for women. >> reporter: everything in the store has two price, one for men, one for women. the men pay full price, the women, they pay 76%. that's because women in pennsylvania earn on average 76% of what men make according to a study by the institute for women's policy research. across the country, that number

is 78%, which means women take home thousands of dollars less than men per year. and now one woman is taking a stand. >> it's common sense to want people to be paid equally and fairly, and that's why i'm doing this. >> reporter: we went shopping at 76 is less than 100 founded by graphic designer elana elana schlenker. i wanted to see how much they would cost me if i'm a man. this is ridiculous. men won't be buying these earrings. >> they might wear earrings. >> reporter: exactly. i don't know that. 20 for men, 16 for women. i don't know a whole lot about art. >> that is $70? but i do know a deal when i see one. >> so the full price total would be 320.50 and for you it's 244.

>> reporter: wow. so it's almost $100 in savings. but is this feminist robin hood-esque approach even legal in i love getting a discount but fair is fair. does this practice count as price discrimination against men? >> this is an arts project. there's some leeway in that. but if someone has an issue with this or says that they want to pay the 76% if they're a man, that's fine with me. >> reporter: and the items in the store, she only sells items created by female artists like lanka clayton who somehow got 100 married couples to make pairs of mismatched shoes from tissue boxes, champagne corks. >> this is made from silk. >> reporter: that's gross. >> really poetic. >> reporter: and gross. >> what if you had a male artist who was equally passionate and

enthusiastic about the project and supporting wage equality? would you let them be a part of your shop? >> i would think about it. maybe if the content of the work was related to feminism or wage equality. but i've certainly worked with men to put the shop together. whatever i can, just in the spirit of the store, i thought it made sense to work with women. >> reporter: would you describe yourself as a feminist? >> yes, i would, but i think, you know in terms of this project, i don't think you have to be a feminist to thing that -- to feel that people should be paid equally and fairly. >> reporter: so how many feminists can we find in pittsburgh? do you think the girls in your class should make the same amount of money some day as you do? >> yes. >> yes. >> i think everybody should be paid equal. >> reporter: jimmy, do you think it would be discrimination to sell these beautiful halo look

alike atomic roll at 70% of the price? >> since the young lady is so beautiful. >> reporter: now you're being sexist on top of everything else. >> i think she should get it for free and i think my good friend here should pay double because everything has its price and beauty is one of those things. >> reporter: have you gotten any negative feedback. >>? i've got a lot of interesting online criticism. >> reporter: we'll go through some e-mails. what about the e-mail that says your discrimination is gross. >> well discrimination is gross. that's the whole point. people are saying this isn't fair, yeah neither is women being paid less than men. so yeah it's pretty gross. >> reporter: the pop-up shop has moved on and will open in new orleans in november where it

will be renamed 66 is less than 100 to reflect louisiana's median wage gap. if pittsburgh is any indication elana's shop will open up in more parts of the country or at least until the wage gap is closed. seema, i'm wondering, did you have a chance to talk to any of the male customers? >> obviously, i went to pittsburgh to get some dates, so of course i talked to the guys. all the men were so -- >> all of the men, 100% of men. >> every guy i talked to was supportive. we went on the street and that was way far from the shop even those guys were saying where is this store? i want to go. so everyone agreed about the wage gap. and wanted to do something about it. >> so how does the store owner decide where to open these pop-up stores? >> well elana has some roots in pittsburgh. her boyfriend's from there. so she was exposed to the community. pittsburgh, which is surprising

to all of us has this burgeoning arts industry. a lot of supportive groups in terms of getting funding and grants. so she saw the opportunity there. she had this support so she started there. >> and new orleans is next. >> new orleans is next. and the world after that. >> thank you, to seema iyer. remember, catch seema on the docket on shift by msnbc. beyonce, taylor nikki and selena. but up next "game of thrones." when i'm shopping for a used car, i want to be comfortable. i don't want an aggressive salesperson breathing down my neck pressuring me into a decision. when i go to the supermarket there's no one pushing me to buy the more expensive cereal. i just want to shop like i do everywhere else. ♪ ♪ as long as people drive cars

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i want to issue a note of caution that this segment might be triggering for sexual assault. that's because we're talking about "game of thrones," which has been no stranger to controversy over its depiction of sexual violence against women. the show watched by more than

18 million viewers each episode, is based on george r.r. martin's book series in which an epic struggle for power the often played out through violence and sex. in the past seasons the show's creators have opened themselves to criticism with scenes depicting the rape of female characters where those scenes play differently in the books. another of those scenes involving the sexual assault of a beloved character in the final minutes of the show has some fans saying enough. in the scene, a teenager in an arranged marriage is raped by her husband while another male character is forced to watch. the scene was the final straw for fans like missouri senator claire mccaskill who tweeted, okay i'm done "game of thrones." gratuitous rape scene disgusting and unacceptable. a rocky ride that just ended. and the self-proclaimed site for feminist geek culture. we will no longer be promoting

hbo's game of thrones. reactions have been polarized, with some defending the show's right to include the scene like one of my guests today. it's important to preserve the distinction between saying something simply isn't for me and drawing a more definitive conclusion that something is a poor artistic choice. those words are from alyssa rosenberg, culture columnist for "the washington post." also here is janet mott, host of shift on msnbc. chloe angel and opinion columnist for reuters and sonya television critic. you talk about this distinction between the show's depiction of sexual violence and this scene in particular. >> absolutely. >> between as what you wrote, what isn't for you and what is a bad artistic choice. which is it? >> i think it's important to understand how people view "game of thrones." if you're watching this as an

epic fantasy of dragons and great quips and character acting, then scenes of sexual violence may seem like something that's foisted on you. that characters are put in there as juice drama. i totally understand that reaction. i come at it somewhat differently. i've always understood martin's novels and the hbo adaptation as a story about what it's like to live in an intensely violent sexual culture. i realize this is a bit nerdy. the conflict in the series starts from a historical instance of rape. one character kidnaps the other. it's presumed that he sexually assaulted her. her fiance uses that as an excuse to start a war during which rape is used as a weapon in the conflict. and so for me it's impossible to separate out the events of "game of thrones" from this story about living in a sexually violent culture. that's a supergrim thing to turn into as your sunday evening

bertainment. if that's not something that you expected or want to spend time in, i completely understand that. not every show is for every person, but to me the argument that the scene was gratuitous seems a bit odd because this is a core theme of the show. this is a core subject of the show. and so it's not being added on to juice ratings, to juice drama. it is the subject matter. >> i know you're a fan of the show and you've written about this. what was your take on the choice to include this scene? >> well i agree with alyssa on a lot of the points that we're talking about, a show that uses this as a device trying to say something about it. i've gotten to this point at this point in the show where i just don't know what the show is trying to say about rape and about women who live in this culture. you know we have had at this point three major characters who have experienced sexual assault in a very violent graphic way on screen in a way that doesn't happen in the text. and it's not like we have to to

get nerdy for a second not like we have to stay with this. but who is that for? that's my question. i don't think -- i personally do not think that the "game of thrones" show is making these scenes is building these scenes and saying we really want survivors of rape to watch this and feel represented. you know what i mean? >> so -- but this is my issue. chloe chloe, i want to turn to you. i don't watch this show because it's too violent for my nature. we watched men being burned alive, someone's head be squeezed until it explodes. it's so violent. talk to us about why you think the depiction of sexual violence here is such fraught territory particularly for a show with such extreme violence generally. >> so it's important to note this isn't the first time that viewers casual or otherwise are walked away from a series because of the series' use of sexual violence.

we saw it happen on downton abbey and on scandal. those shows like game of thrones those shows had used sexual violence before but those instances got viewers to a tipping point. so i think it's interesting to sort of scale back and ask what is it about this moment that constitutes a tipping point. is it because we have watched this actress grow up on screen in front of us? olivia pope's consent was violated repeatedly but the rape of melly grant. it was the likable anna bates that was the tipping point. there's a conversation to be had about what kind of victims we find sympathetic and what kind of violence we find unacceptable. >> according to nielsen, 42% of "game of thrones" are women. you brought up "scandal." we saw backlash in which first

lady melly graham was raped. there was an extended storyline of rape also a shonda rims show. and does it make a difference to have a woman behind the camera and writing the story? >> i think for sure a woman directing and running a series would change the way in which it was told. i know for lashonda rhymes it was to say why melly is the way she is why she's protective of this marriage why she keeps secrets. it wasn't to make her more likable as a character. i also thing about joan on "mad men" and one that really traumatized me a lot was dr. amal fee on the sopranos. i was not connected to sansa because i didn't know her storyline, but what was bizarre on that show was the close-up of

the guy who was forced to watch, as if being forced to watch this was worse than -- a greater pain or outweighed the trauma of -- >> of sansa. >> we have to go to break. so much to say about this. after the break, i want to ask my table about the new face of up, up and away. cbs' trailer is flying high but has some critics superpeeved. that's next. ho know best what cats like to eat. up today, new friskies 7. we're trying seven cat-favorite flavors all in one dish. now for the moment of truth. yep, looks like it's time to share what our cats love with your cats. new friskies 7. for cats. by cats. it's the final days of the ford ecoboost challenge. here we go! last chance to save big on ford,

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released online to the rest of us get a sneak peek too. one of those has caught the attention of more than 10 million people around the world. jason lynch at ad week reports that the 6 1/2 minute trailer for supergirl, cbs' most vent foray into the genre has surpassed the numbers for all cbs, abc, nbc and fox's up front trailers. it has action daring rescues, villains and, of course a cape. >> i'm not playing around saving people in this thing. where is my cape? >> capes are lame. tell your cousin i said so. actually, never do that. >> but the trailer features a storyline that appears to be straight out of a romantic comedy. >> i have a conference in geneva and i need to be there in an

hour. >> i have a date in an hour. >> why do you do this to me? >> that's inspired criticisms from fans concerned that the fall lineup only shows starring with a superhero might be too much girl talk and not enough action. we know that clark kent story also features a clumsy alter ego struggling to be successful in love and work. is there something different going on here with supergirl? >> i think so. she's not superwoman. she's supergirl. which i think has been a major observation by a lot of people watching the show. wonder woman is right there. including the cw has the flash and arrow which are also in the dc comics universe. they're shows for teens, yes, then i can see how maybe that's one of the reasons. i guess it just reflects to me -- i know i'm optimistic.

i hope supergirl is great. but it reflects to me that the way we all feel comfortable seeing our superpowered women on tv is in this particular mold. >> i want to play another sound and, chloe, get you to pondrespond. this is another excerpt from the trailer. >> shouldn't you be called superwoman? >> what do you think is so bad about girl? i'm a girl. and your boss. and powerful and rich and hot and smart. so if you perceive supergirl as anything less than excellent, isn't the real problem you? >> okay. chloe, so seems like the show is trying to get ahead of the criticisms about the girl question, but so what? >> that launched a thousand women v. girls debates. like we haven't hashed that enough. women, girl i don't care. i don't think it's necessary to set up an either/or.

that little tire aid is coming out of the mouth of calista flockhart who most people remember as ally mcbeal, the patron paint of fraught '90s and what feminism has become in its latest iterations. the kneejerk antagonism. i study rom comes, they're dear to my heart. they're deeply flawed cultural artifacts. a lot of the kneejerk sort of rom com antagonism comes from misogyny. these are made for women by women and almost always about women. when we automatically criticize rom coms we should check ourselves and ask just because it's about women or girls does it mean it's necessarily bad? >> a she-hulk romantic comedy. it would be the best thing. i can't begin to tell you. >> social media has allowed

hollywood to get instant feedback from the public particularly about genderhollywood. they asked for them to look into stereotyping and bias in hollywood. if getting the government involved is what it's going to take to get really systemic changes in terms of getting more women behind the camera more women as writers. >> the visibility of the case will push people to start talking about it more. but it would really push people to actually make this a larger issue was the releasing of the salaries that kind of happened through the sony hacks. that really pushed a lot of women to kind of rally. patricia arquette's kind of speech, all of that brooded in this way. but i think this is a story about representation specifically. because there are so few superheroines, we police and scrutinize supergirl and black widow in ways we don't do the

hulk. >> the same for women comedians in lots of other areas where women are underrepresented. but the question of policy change, the last time that hollywood made a huge shift in representation, they did so on their own accord. the production code in the 1930s, which was basically self-imposed censorship. they did that because there was the threat of government intervention. we'd rather handle this ourselves rather than having the government tell us we can and can't say, we'll agree these are the standards we'll stick to. >> 1941 the creation of wonderwoman created by a man but specifically as a feminist character. >> created by a married couple. >> yes a couple but dr. marsten. people can google wonderwoman and find the history. up next beyonce, taylor and nikki and selena. right now, verizon is offering unlimited talk and text. plus 10 gigs of shareable data. yeah, 10 gigantic gigs.

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this week three of music's biggest names dropped new videos that became instant viral hits among their massive legions of fans and reminded everyone of exactly who are the bosses in the world of pop music. during the dillbillboard awards taylor swift unleashed her new video. and it broke a record for 20 million views on the site vevo swift cast herself and a few other women as action heroes. ♪ take a look what you've done ♪ ♪ bad blood bad blood ♪ we got problems ♪ >> meanwhile, nicki minaj's barbie and beyonce b-hive fan bases joined after the two artists showed when two pop

powerhouses are feeling themselves. ♪ feeling myself ♪ ♪ i'm feeling myself ♪ ♪ i'm feeling myself ♪ ♪ i'm filling myself ♪ ♪ i'm feeling myself ♪ >> all right. janet, that video, i'm feeling myself right now. all three of these women are part of an ongoing dialogue beyonce, taylor swift are self-avowed feminists. nicki minaj hasn't embraced the title necessarily but her most recent album was cited for its feminist themes. how do you see these artists advancing a feminist message with these latest visuals? >> i think that "feeling myself" is an ode about self-love and girlfriendship. and that girlfriendship andsterhood is a big tenet of feminism. and i think that what beyonce has been very explicit about it. taylor has been explicit about her journey towards feminism linged through her friendship with lena dunham who was cigar

boss in there. we don't know what she was doing in that 18 cameo filled four minutes of a michael bane girl fight it felt like. so that scene, what's interesting is that beyonce and nikki and taylor are all in front of this pop powercharge of girl power that i haven't seen since spice girls. >> this girl power needs a better action choreography. "bad blood" is a teric video. it's complete rip-off of britney's toxic. they're getting together their posses and tearing each other apartment apart. it's apocalypticcally terrible. >> it's all hyped. >> people embodies their action star status in a model way. >> impractical shoes. >> i think people have reached superhero action movie parody

when women action heroes get to wear practical footwear which they could kick ass. no one can kick ass in that. >> and they can punch without worrying about smearing each other's makeup. >> taylor and her posse spent that whole sequence practicing with weapons. a little bit of martial arts. when the final moment comes and the fight actually happens. it is a catfight. they grab at each other's hair. >> you mentioned martial arts. i have to play another video released this week by another fof the country's most powerful women. let's take a look. >> number one, get my workout in every morning before heading in the oval office. two, drink up. three. take the stairs. when secret service lets me take the stairs. scotus on board. >> so michelle obama the first lady released a video in response to that where she's

engaged in martial arts. she's planking. did all sorts of things. has she remade the mold of what it means to be first lady of the united states. >> who jump ropes, boxing, lift weights with a full face of makeup doesn't break a sweat. i can't believe her. >> in those taylor swift shoes. >> she'll be out of office by the time the black panther movie comes out. maybe we can get her in there. >> he took on the competition of the james show jeopardy. now he's taking on nerd culture.

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.. the answer he has been called a hacker a thug a mad genius and the "jeopardy" villain. the question who is arthur chu? last year after an 11-game run on the show "jeopardy" chu, a former insurance compliance analyst won close to $300,000 and wound up as the third

winningest player in the show's history. >> in 1814 this vp from massachusetts for whom a political term is named, died in office having served less than two years. arthur? >> who is jerry. >> that's pronounced gerry, but elbridge gerry. >> the gerrymander. >> i know. >> one of those weird things about our language. go again. >> home of the cave. >> arthur's appearance on "jeopardy" garnered attention on social media with people frowning on ununorthodox strategy. he was not deterd. he responded to his critics on-line and kept himself in the limelight and he has been using the power of his words to highlight how toxic nerd culture has become. since we here are members of nerd land we decided to bring arthur on to discuss the state of nerd culture today. joining me from cleveland, ohio arthur chu now a freelance writer. good morning. >> hi. thanks for having me. >> thanks for joining nerdland.

wondering, were you prepared for how the "jeopardy" experience would change your life? >> i was not. i mean i didn't expect going in that i would be that successful. i just -- i hoped to win at least one game and take home enough money to make it worth my while. the whole thing happened in the space of three days and then afterwards i was like at home for the months before the show actually aired wondering what's going to happen. and, you know, what was really surprising to me was like people reacting that strongly and calling me up for interviews when i was just like four games in, before i set any kind of record because apparently i made that much of an impression on america, you know. >> so you write about nerd culture. tells us how you define that. what is nerd culture? >> well i mean as someone who was publicly made fun of a lot on social media for how i looked on tv and acted, i would say it's the self-defined culture of being an outsider in mainstream

culture. the weird thing being that things associated with nerd culture like being an introvert, relying a lot on digital media, likeing fringe subculture entertainment that's become the mainstream. the mainstream doesn't exist anymore. hard to define what a nerd means in today's culture. >> nerd can mean many things to uniquely brilliant to socially awkward. are nerds bad with people and in particular, how does digital life how to mediate and alleviate the social awkwardness? >> that's the thing. we're all nerds now. like i was weird when i was a kid because i didn't like to interact with other people face to face. i would always be buried in a book or magazine or newspaper. and now, the common complaint is everybody does that right. everybody is addicted to screens to looking at their phone and laptop because it's sort of like there's a set of people who have been trying to make mediated

experience with the world more and more attractive. you know there are always some of us who found it easier to deal with media than to deal with the world unfiltered but, you know, social media, the internet, digital platforms have made that kind of mediated experience with the world more and more attractive and more and more convenient and we're all kind of shaped by that. to the extent the world is become more pathological like i've always been puts people like me in an interesting situation. >> how can we improve nerd culture especially the racism and sexism within it that you've written about? >> right. i mean i think a lot of it is this idea that because you're awkward, a tough time dealing with people automatically an underdog and the mistaken i.d. that means all the other problems in society have gone away and they haven't, they're still there, just obscured and a big part of what i'm trying to do is point out hey, people who

are good with computers and like superhero movies are not the underdog anymore we're normal and we have take responsibility for the nasty things we do to others, for the racism and sexism. >> i have to say thank you to arthur chu, unfortunately, out of time, thank you to arthur chu in cleveland, ohio and in new york janet, chloe and sonya, don't forget to watch janet on so popular fridays at 11:00 a.m. eastern on shift by msnbc, that is our show for today, thanks to you at home for watching. don't miss my show "nerding out" thursdays at 11:00 a.m. and now time for a preview of "weekends with alex witt". >> shows like, you know, so popular, nerding out, of course we watch those. who wouldn't. great names anyway. thank you so much. ireland's vote on gay marriage and one thing leaders on both sides of the issue can agree on as the ballots are being counted. payday loans why did president obama talk about them in a recent speech. we will take a look at a report

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