and hillary clinton said. >> sanders is authentic and clear. >> i need my morning joe. >> here's what else we cannot

do. we cannot turn against one another by letting this fight be defined as a war between america and islam. that too is what groups like isil want. let's never forget what makes us exceptional. freedom is more powerful than fear. >> good morning. it's monday, december 7th. with us we have managing editor of bloomberg politics and the president of counsel on foreign relations and nbc news chief correspondent richard angle and sean henry. . also with us author of the new book destiny in power, the american odyssey of george h.w. bush. a lot to talk about. >> what did you think about the speech last night? >> i thought it was a reaffirmation to what we're already doing to an extent.

really hard to do that during an election season. >> did you hear anything new last night? >> not on the foreign policy side. that stayed the course. what was different was the domestic focus. >> he laid out this plan so he didn't talk about just a staying the course he talked about staying a course we've already been on that hasn't been working. he laid out four points. one, lay down the plot of the terror. that's happening and there's been drone strikes and aggressive raids all over the world. point two, i said we're going to keep the training and equipping mission in iraq and syria.

that's been fought with problems. that one hasn't been working. number three, he talked about suing the boarder for turkey. perhaps that's happening to a dedpree and then in the end he sort of talked about how there's progress being made to cease fire in syria. that would bring russia on board. that would be amazingly good but i think that's pretty far off. >> that would be amazingly good. it's amazingly far away. >> this was a prime time address the president spoke to the nation. it was twice during his term that he addressed the nation

from the oval office. he told americans freedom is more powerful than fear. >> since the day i took this office i've authorized u.s. forces to take out terrorist abrootd precisely because i know how real the danger is. as commander and chief i have no greater responsibility than the security of the american people. as a father to two young daughters, i know we see ourselves with friends and co-workers at a holiday party like the one in san bernardino. i know we see our kids in the young faces killed in paris. i know after so much war many americans are asking whether we are confronted by a cancer that has no immediate cure. it is clear that the two of them had gone down the dark path of

radicalization. this was an act of terrorism designed to kill innocent people. congress should act to make sure no one on a no fly list is able to buy a gun. what could possibly be the argument for allowing a terror suspect to buy an automatic weapon. we need to make it harder for people to buy powerful assault weapons like the ones used in san bernardino. our intelligence and law enforcement agencies, no matter how effective they are, cannot identify every would be mass shooter. whether that individual is motivated by isil or some other ideology. >> what in terms of foreign policy did he not say do you think? >> he could have talked about

the bombing intensity. he could have talked about increasing the special forces and the role they were taken. he could have increased the amount of support the united states is giving to the kurds. he could have talked about the neighbors to iraq and syria. he could have said we're working with turkey to close the recruiting. he could have talked about putting much more pressure on turkey or possibly doing some things latterly. it was missing and i think richard got it right. kind of stay the course if the course were succeeding. we're not doing well except for making slight amounts of progress from iraq. >> what did you not say? now you have criticism with the speech. what do you think he could have

sa said? >> there's a report out now we're going to be talking about in a little bit that what he is doing is not working and isis isn't contained. what did the president do last night? he talked about status quo at home. we know he supports gun control. he's been talking about that for seven years. that's not new. so many people were watching last night saying is that really

it? he's got to give americans a reason to believe that he's not just going to stay hunkered down in his idea logical bunker and continue to ignore the threat. >> his critics say his policies are not working. he believes sincerely that it is working. bombing and special operators combined putting together a coalition is going to work overtime. i think what he didn't realize is the urgency of the american people who see things like paris and san bernardino. it's not something we can wait for, a political reconciliation

process in syria. we can't wait for saudi arabia to come along. >> it sounded like he was running out the clock. >> again, he was staying say the course as willie said. it's not working. >> the report -- >> what are you looking at here? is it a president that's going to play it safe or -- >> president obama when he anuns

appreciated this principle in foreign policy, the president has a memory from 9/11 and he did a lot of stupid stuff that caused a lot of consequences. i think he is criticizing to say. richard haas, he's radically at a step where the american people are. 25% of americans believe his policies are working. actually, i did go back to his don't do stupid stuffy loss if i after san bernardino and said that's about the stupidest

governing philosophy somebody in his position can have when he's going up against a radical force like isis. it's the exhibit one and a general fighting the last war. >> you don't do stupid stuff. it doesn't mean do another iraq or afghanistan. don't sends hundreds of thousands abroad. >> it means more than that to the president. take no risks. >> the principle historical critique of his administration is going to be what he didn't do. it's going to begin with syria and look at iraq. it's the constraints he's placed on what the united states has done. what i don't hear is an equal sen sensitivity to the danger of under reacting.

>> historians are going to have a field day digging through this. this president defined his foreign policy by what the last president's foreign policy was and he's did everything he can not to push cheney. you had two presidents back to back. one he overreached and one i'm quiet confident historians are going to stay over reached. >> the president is overreacting. you're exactly right.

this is what a lot of people feared was going to happen in autumn 200 # 1 forward. it's incredibly difficult. no one saying you can push two buttons in the oval office and solve this problem. it's at some point cool and steady becomes cool and disengag disengaged. i figure that's where the president is. >> i thought that was the message he made about fellow muslims and americans in this country was strong and important. e watched it with my youngest daughter whose very interested and we were waiting for the address. when he was finished she said i

don't know what the point of that was. >> i heard that from so many peop people. it use to be the critiques were reserved for lindsey game and john mccain. now it's overwelling the majority of american citizens. >> what i tried to explain is this is a lot of americans don't understand what we're doing. he was trying to explain what we're doing and why it will prevail and why we need to preserve freedom and why he doesn't want to walk toward war again or run given a nation that we're at war in.

>> there's a million things he could do short of what george w. bush and dick cheney can do. we've been around this table watching the president reign his hands. the united states of america attack. here he is. i promise historians are going to judge him in this harsh life like george w. bush. here we are after all that, isis is j.v. with a coby bryant jersey on. here we are, the president goes on a prime time address and

still ringing his hand. i thought the speech actually began to break a little new ground. it didn't go far enough. that was the key after san bernardino. this is actually the next front. it's not return knees, it's not refugees, it's the fact we got 3 million muslims in this country. we act in ways that alienates. there's a little bit of rhetoric out there that's hot with the republican candidate. i thought what we seen him doing was a little bit of preempgs. >> the president's approach to fighting an apock lipt rancic force was gun control, gun control and three tinker with a

visa program, check and three, give me an authorizization i already have. john, we don't get that. we know he supports gun control. i support some of the legislation he's talking about. it's not like i oppose it. but where's the beef? the intelligence community saying that isis is not contained and must lose their land pretty much since paris. they've been saying what must happen now is we just get raqqah. what would be required to take raqqah and second, what would happen if we did? >> who is we and what is the ground force that would take

raqqah? there's talk about the kurdish, arab alliance. it's weak and hasn't gotten the weapons promised to it. the people of raqqah aren't interested in having the kurds take them over. there might be other kinds of solutions. take the special ops, for example, the president actually just said about a hundred specials are going to iraq. that sounds okay.

the government is not pleased. iran is opposed to it. if you look at each one of the prescripted steps late out, they're problematic. even before you talk about invading raqqah and taking it over, that would be an incredibly ambitious project. the much less ambitious projects aren't working. how then do you talk about taking back their land and defeating them when sending a hundred special ops is fought with problems and opposition and open political jars of worms in the middle east that just. >> right. >> there's no clear. >> one last interesting note as we look at what the fight will look like when president obama is out of office. it's not just the republicans. you're starting to hear hillary

clinton a little bit. i understand it's easier to do on a campaign trail than sitting in the oval office, she's now calling for stepped up air strikes. she's talking about curving the social media. >> we have a lot more to talk about. the question is who is we? and richard asked that question. it seems to me most presidents sitting in this position, richard would say we have to take the quote califate back from him. >> now you have to take it. you have to keep it. >> you have to take it and keep it and it's complicated. but this president has been saying it's complicated now for three years. >> yes. after paris.

>> it's the best way for we have to take that land back. there are a lot of smart democrats. there's a lot of smart liberals, there's a lot of smart people left here that would agree we have to take the land back. it's going to be hard. >> okay. it's complicated three times over. richard, quick. >> you got to change the momentum. momentum is the key to the appeal over isis. if you don't take the land back in an hour you got to take it back. >> richard angle, thank you very much. still ahead, republican presidential candidate jeb bush plus former counter terrorism adviser and hillary clinton

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this morning we at msnbc have a big announcement concerning the program. gentleman, what's the announcement? oh, i make the announcement? >> yeah. >> so your program with all do respect currently airs on bloomberg television at 5:00 a.m. every day and will also air at 6:00 p.m. starting in january right as the campaign reaches its peak.

6:00 p.m. eastern time every weeknig weeknight, january. >> this is really good. >> it is really forward thinking. you guys have a fantastic show. it's only gotten better every day. >> for people who haven't seen the show on bloomberg, what are they looking to see? >> it's a little pti, right. >> it's a great show and they ripped off the format, i understand. we call it omage.

>> this is exciting. it's forward thinking and our big absolute to bill griffin and andy lack to have the vision to do this. >> this is vision. i don't know how they've got it done. it's complicated. >> and dealing with the mayor, oh my god. that couldn't have been easy. >> he's got the deal done. we're happy to be able to put the show on. >> what an opportunity for us to be with all our friends here. >> okay. let move on. back to news. investigators are looking into whether malik radicalized her husband and was the driving force behind the san bernardino shootings. that possibility emerged when it was disclosed and she pledged allegiance to isis leader in a facebook post. not from her account around the same times as the shootingsme.

facebook pulled down the post after the attack. the violation came after representatives and family members said they knew little about their sister-in-law. >> she was a housewife. the brothers did not see her face. they never seen her face because she wore a berka. she was totally covered. they knew her as his wife. >> she was only here for two years. we didn't really know her that well. meanwhile a source tells roiters that the shooters planned multiple attacks before they were intercepted by police. several law enforcement offic l officials say they've been unable to learn the details they required. they say the weapons were originally purchased by a former neighbor in 2011 and 2012. investigators do not know how

they were transferred to the couple. the fbi raided the home saturday. they were not considered a suspect and been distraught since the shootings checking himself into a mental hospital. then there's the government's ability to review and analyze five years of telephone records. the records that the nsa are now off limits. they generally keep customer records from 18 months to two years ago. >> mark, let's talk about this quickly. talk about the policies of this

quickly. we're already seeing it inside the republican party. what was safe and poplar three years ago, two years ago when you had republicans going after the nsa surveillance premeditog. now with political danger. ted cruz finds himself in a vulnerable position. are we going to find a strength back at the nsa? >> there's appetite within the republican party. this is the worst time in some ways to have a debate because the presidential campaign process is so circus like and distorting. ted cruz isn't the only one on the defense and he's not the only one that's going to be part of the discussion if you're a republican nominee, in the party there's an appetite now to say how do we punt down on the visas and make sure americans doing bad things can be monitored?

>> hillary. hillary clinton is going to feel the pressure to. a lot of democrats want the nsa to crack down as well. >> they're open to changes. >> let's go to sean henry. i remember in moments we learned this is a husband and wife team, your instinct is we should take a good look at the wife. as you put the pieces together, what are you seeing in their relationship? >> what is the wife's roll in all this? was she is radicalizer? was she engaged in a plot in advanced of her meeting with

him? what we heard the president say last night was this is a program going to be looked at. that absolutely was the case. we've got to strengthen our boarders, our perimeter. most importantly we need to look internally as well. some of the issues the president talked about last night did not engage specifically with the recourses of the fbi and ability for the community to be much strongly engaged in order to prevent this. >> what more would you have liked to heard from the president? what resources do we not have using to make this fight? >> we talked about the external issues. hunting the terrorist overseas and intelligence sharing among partners internationally. the fact of the matter is we've got hundreds of people here in the united states domestically and we have got the increase our ability to identify those

individuals here and to hunt them domestically. that's going to require one of two things or two things. one is the nsa issue we just talked about. can we get better intelligence collections where the law enforcement is authorized to look for those engaged in this activity. most importantly, i think it's the community coming and changing the ideology here. these people are constantly barraged with this external message and the community needs to help change the ideology. >> thank you very much, sir. >> all right. still ahead on morning joe. >> the first impulse of hillary clinton and barack obama is to have gun control. >> there's nobody running who has a great deal of international experience except for hillary clinton and you see where that's led. >> this is a problem with the president and secretary clinton. >> republican candidates had plenty to say about hillary

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can you say today they're winning against isis? >> we're not winning but it's

too soon to say. we're doing everything we need to do. i've outlined clearly. we have to fight them in the air, on the ground and on the internet and do everything we can with our friends and partners around the world to protect ourselves. >> if you were in the oval office tonight would you be announcing a new strategy? >> i think that's what we'll hear. i think there's additional steps we can take. >> joining us now, the former governor of michigan. she's now senior adviser of rapid response supporting hillary clinton and that interaction there with george sounded like she speaks something new. >> americans don't expect us, we're going to send a hundred thousand troops. they expect us to do that. we're going to fight them in the air, on the ground, online. we're going to fight them, beat them, destroy them. this president's own

administration has that focus. you have to have that focus. i've said it before. hillary clinton has had that focus post paris. the president has not. it puts hillary clinton in a very difficult position. but most americans are with her and not with the president. >> she's running for president and has a president and policy that only 25% of americans agree with. >> that would a good position for her to work from. she came yesterday, she came out afterwards with a very comprehensive speech. it was an hour long speech. she has the benefit of that time. the president was shooting for a small time window. to be fair to the president, i

know i heard you guys in the first segment talking about how he didn't stay to course. he did move the words acceleration. it wasn't as though he was saying we are not doing anything more. we are going to continue to hit them in the air. she's focussed on that notion. you picked it upright away. on the ground, in the air and online. not exceeding any bit of virtual territory. >> we're doing the same thing that are right now not working. but you heard, what rich afford hass said, there is a big difference between what we're doing today and putting a hundred thousand troops on the ground, right. so what the president has said, we are accelerating and accelerating meaning we want to continue to get our allies more engaged. >> did you hear what ted cruz

said over the weekend? he said we're going to bomb them into oblivion and learn whether sand glows. what does that mean? nuclear war, right? what is he talking about there? >> no. i don't think it's nuclear war. >> really. >> it means that a lot of the republicans are being just as extreme on one side as the president is on the other. >> this isn't about being extreme. >> the president is being extreme in his restraint against an apock lipt rancic force. doesn't it put her in a difficult position politically. ?

>> i don't think. its strengths and many witnesses, she can find opportunities to contrast herself with the president. this gives her opportunities, i think. >> i agree completely. she supports a no fly zone which obviously, the president had not supported. she staked out her own position. it's not she's in opposition for the president. she has her own ideas for it.

the question would be isn't this what hilly clinton needs to do if she differs with obama on any level of the foreign policy. >> i think one of the things you can learn is the more candid you can be, the better. i think the more this conversation broadly put the national debate about what to do about particularly these domestic incidents involving isis or isis inspired activity, the more it falls into a political narrative. the more frustrated the public is going to become. people understand this is an asymmetrical threat and new kind of threat.

we've had two terrible things in the american psyche intersect in a big way. these big mass shootings that have been part of our culture for too long. i think we have to talk about this as a two front war. my disappointment with the president last night, you have to talk about this as different with the law enforcement problem at home. it's a war abroad as you have to be able to signal that you are engaged with where the people are. i hope you guys get a chance. you have abunch of people on to ask about that.

i was saying last week we have to do what republicans say we have to do. we talk about gun control visas and giving them powers we already have. it sounds disconnected. it sounded like the doctors talking about leeches. americans want to know how is isis going to be defeated? >> i think he started with that. the problem is what he started with didn't feel like anything new. >> in closing, hillary clinton has a piece saying she would vote for more accountability

that goes well beyond in terms of wall street and financial reforms. up next she ran president bush's campaign against terrorism. francis townsend joins us. morning joe back in a moment. this winter, take advantage of our season's best offers on the latest generation of cadillacs. the 2016 cadillac srx. get this low-mileage lease from around $339 per month, or purchase with 0% apr financing. i use what's already inside me to reach my goals. so i liked when my doctor told me i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating what's within me.

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good to have you on board. >> good to be here. >> what was missing last night in the president's speech? >> he didn't address at all how he would deal with the threat here at home. there was the discussion about gun control but there wasn't discussion, the british went ahead and added over 1,500 agents to mi5. their version of the fbi. there wasn't a discussion of the threat online. that's how they get discovered here at home. these people had a lot of am in addition and weapons and no discussion on how we're going to deal with that. if you want to give the american people comfort here at home, you got to tell them what you're going to do here at home. >> instead of giving them comfort, how about how you're going to level with the american people. what we're doing at airports we're going to have to do to

train and bus stations and malls and shetheaters. >> i would suggest screening to get in movie theaters and malls. but if we get to that point we're handing the bad guys what they want. our freedom. >> i think we have the conversation about the trade off. trade offs on civil libberties and privacy. we do it at airports all the time. i think ultimately, we have to have an honest conversation about how we're going to deal with the do mmestic challenge. >> you can't do it. the airport is a closed controlled environment. >> why don't we start with a couple of things we already decided to get rid of as we reported earlier. the nsa can't get the phone records because of the

washington post article in 2005 we can't actually interrogate terrorist to figure out where the next attacks come from. we get in a lot of things short of people in movie theaters and have the political will to do it now. >> this is not just a democratic issue. there's a lot of republicans that have fought against the nsa. >> that's right. look, what investigators are saying over the last week is it slowed them down. it's most important to them to post an event, the access to these records to understand connections and identify. the president said there's no indication this couple was part of a broader part.

>> the president can't know this early, can he that there's not a connection to foreign terrorist. >> it's dangerous to say. i think what he means to say is we don't know as of now. this is saying they're a jv team and you wind up with paris. it is awfully early to make that judgment and certainly, they're still looking at it. >> friends and family, stay with us. great britain reigning down bombs on isis and just like america there's a group far away from the battlefield. we talk to the u.k.s chancellor about the british approach to defeating isis and how to cut off the financing. we'll be right back with much more morning joe.

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thank you very much. richar richard, thank you as well. >> don't get ugly. if it doesn't -- >> we want to keep the tone happy on the show. sometimes we get unnecessarily sharp. >> it's really, it's just really not the right thing to do. >> so you're saying they didn't win. >> okay. >> coming up next president obama acknowledges san bernardino was a terror attack. they plan on taking on the islamic state going forward. >> we're going to have continued reaction from the cross the political spectrum including

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it's the top of the hour. welcome back to morning joe. it's monday, december 7th. with us this morning we have former homeland security and counter terrorism adviser to george w. bush francis townsend. former democratic congressman harold ford junior and the executive director of

asymmetric's project malcom nance is back. his new book defeating isis due out next month. >> so the president obviously spoke last night. only the third time he's spoken from the oval office. >> yeah. >> what was your take? >> my daughter's take which i thought really nailed it because i knew this is what people were going to start saying on twitter and we're in the middle of a heated opening. she said what was the point of that. so i called my father and said what was the point of that? he said it's a reaffirmation to what we're doing and reacceleration of what we're doing and an important message to our country about muslim americans and freedom. >> unfortunately, we're in a war against an apock lipt rancic force called isis.

what we need is a strategy to defeat isis and we reported last hour the president's own commission said that you look at the entail and it's not working. what we are doing is not working. richard ingle said three of the four plans the president has moving forward to basically stay the course have already been judged. >> to me, what he was saying is you may hear through the media it's not working. we're losing the fight to isis. here's why it's not working. >> here's the president telling americans freedom is more powerful than fear. >> it is clear the two have b n

been -- they've stockpiled am in addition and pipe bombs. congress should act to make sure no one on a no fly list is able to buy a gun. what could be the argument for allowing terror suspects to buy weapons? i know there's some who reject any matters. the fact is our intelligence and law enforcement agencies cannot identify every would be mass shooter. it won't require us sending a new generation of americans overseas to fight and die for

another decade on foreign soil. hereby here's what else with cannot do. we cannot turn against one another. isis is thugs and killers and part of a death. they account for a tiny fraction of more than a billion muslims around the world. including millions of patriot rancic muslim americans who reject their hateful ideology. that does not mean denying the fact extremist ideology has spread throughout the communities. there's a real problems muslims must confront without excuse. muslim leaders here and around the globe have to continue working with us. to decisively reject the ideology groups like isil and al

qaeda promote. to speak out not just acts of violence but the interpretation of islam that's compatible with religious tolerance, mutual respect and human dignity. >> listening again, that's not only important what he said but it was new. >> at least he acknowledged this is a version of islam. he's acknowledged this is a problem in islam. >> so horld form other than recognizing that the notsies are not, talk about the speech last night. what was your take? >> my take was similar to yours. i think the president had a big overarching goal last night to reassure the american people. he wanted to talk about what we

were doing differently, domestically and abroad. the challenges you have now upholding moving in a different direction and the president seems to be meaning he's unwilling. the rhetoric changed a bit and i thought the most important part was this was not america and islam. the people were looking for something more. he may end up having to give another set of speeches. there's three markers here. one saying we would go into syria and referring to isis as a junior varsity team. i think all of this is in the minds of voters in a big, big way. you hear the president resign to

the fact we cannot stop every attack, every mass shooting in the country. if you are an every day working american like 99% of americans are. you want the president to know more, speak more forcefully and talk more specifically about what he or she will be able to say in the near future or say to make the country safer. >> there are a lot of things that we can do short of sending a hundred thousand troops to the middle he's. we can start by giving the entail community some of the weapons we took away from them.

>> important to note the report was commissioned before the president's -- did what the president said last night address what this report seems to call for? >> i think the president is engaging the american public and trying to understand the dynamics and metrics aren't something seen in the news media every day. we now have a special operations task force in iraq that's going to change the dynamic on the ground. we're going to start cutting roads and taking terrains and helping other forces behind isis' line.

>> three of those four have been ruled as failures. the four are not realistic. >> that's right. the president went on and defended his strategy. the bombing runs he just referenced, we understand from sources in the military they come back with 70% of their ordnance. that's an indication of the fact we don't have sufficient intelligence. we need to invest more in the intelligence. >> there was such criticism inside the pentagon. the fact that 70% of the fights came back because the rules and

engagements were so tight. willie, i think the bigger problem speaks to what harold said, the president delivered no new policy approaches last night. his prime time address, historic address, despite the fact the overwhelming majority of americans disagree with his strategy against fighting isis. >> his own entail community say it's not working.

>> this is not about using drones overseas and some of the foreign policy things we're talking about. they are a cult and carved out a piece of the middle east. they do it by infiltrating a mind of people acceptable to their ideology. until the president comes together using the islamic world, the 1.5 billion muslims who have the capacity to call out isis' variant of islam as what it is.

who are we talking about? >> well, you need to start off by organizing the arab states and do it and allow us to facilitate their megaphone. they referred to isis as this is a top man who runs the muslim, islamic religious hierarchy. he called them the number one enemy of islam. no one today in the world or the united states knows that was said. that was a devastating statement.

they were working against islam. the people effected from isis, they feel for their souls and gone against 14 centuries that have run the muslim world and violated their own words. we need to attack that. that's counter ideology warfare. we're not doing that at all. the republican party has been plit on this. you don't take away the nsas ability to get phone records.

w we got to grow up and understand this dangerous world we live in. >> i would ask, mrs. clinton spoke yesterday on one of the sunday shows and talked about the tension between silicon valley and the government about how we go about this. it would been curious to hear the president invoke some of that. i'm curious where we stand with the government working with the private sector in order to try to overcome some of the privacy concerns. he's talking about the need for facebo facebook. there might be a moment with more willingness.

>> i hope that's true. having myself trying to proeker media, i couldn't get the private sector in the room. there are things they can do legally. >> and you remember post spars they go and basically shut the door in his face. her own con stitch waits in silicon valley. i think at some point we are going to have to pressure some of these tech companies. and politicians are going to have to say you know what, it may be more important for us to stop the next san bernardino from happening than it is to have user to user encryption on

apps on your iphones. >> you know diane introduced last week bipartisan legislation. something even the president agreed to and he could have given her a shout out and supported that legislation and should have done that. >> malcom, thank you so much for being on the show again this morning. francis, good to have you on. thank you as well. still ahead on morning joe, we go live to pakistan where bill is trying to figure out how to couple from san bernardino was radicalized. we'll play for you the calls for carpet bomb to accuse terrorist. and we'll be joined by three presidential candidates. their reactions to the president's prime time speech but first.

>> we have a system in place and a big war where we live. isis is out there and not going away. the system is going to take a long time. it will define the obama presidency. >> october of last year, that was tom's prediction at the height of the ebola crisis. a full year ago. john joins us next with senator john boone. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. that will allow those machines to share information with each other. i'll be changing the way the world works. (interrupting) you can't pick it up, can you? go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world. this holiday season, gewhat's in the trunk? nothing. romance. 18 inch alloys. you remembered. family fun. everybody squeeze in. don't block anyone.

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right now investigators are looking at whether malik radicalized her husband and was the driving force behind the san bernardino shootings. nbc chief correspondent has been looking into this. what more are you learning? >> good morning. malik, what she did is a complete mystery to her family, friends and to authorities here. trying to look at why a young mother would end the lives of so

many others the way she did. >> malik's former home is locked. her family including her father have fled. not before pack tan authorities questioned them about ties to extremism. where she studied pharmacy for five years, she was not radicalized there. she was a deeply religious and private woman destroying any photographs that showed her without a vail never revealing her face to men in pakistan. investigators here have little idea why she turned terrorist. there is no links as its interior minister between hr and extremist in pakistan. at the country's most radical mosque, they denied any link to her. >> some pledged allegiance to

isis last year. malik wasn't among them but she was close to some hard lying students in pack stachblt. >> her friends say she was devouted muslim. they are shocked. >> anyone who knew her couldn't expect she could do such thing. >> and she stressed she grew up in conservative saudi arabia. it's not clear whether she radicalized her husband or vice versa. it is clear what she did. very clear and deliberate.

back to you guys. >> fascinating. >> thank you. this is a woman who was able to hand-off her six month old child. her mother-in-law knowing she would never see the baby again. mark rejoins the conversation as well. >> tom, predicting isis was going to be a far greater scourge. a year later, how are we doing? it's tough to do this in the

middle of the presidential campaign. the other side on the defcom one. we need to have a rational conversation that involves the whole country. we played a clip of hillary. what has him so disconnected. not only hillary clinton but ash carter. they say we have to beat isis and beat them on the ground. ash carter telling us we got to, the heart is in syria and iraq. we got to tear it out.

>> it's hard for me to read the kind of mental or emotional state of mind when it comes to declaring war. it's not he grew up as a politician and not a war given president. he came in with a domestic agenda trying to get out of the middle east and return himself more with health care in america and restoring the economy and having a political dialogue with the country. then the middle east turned on him. now i find almost no one whose happ happy with his war policies. >> that's exactly what i said last night. john, instead of throwing a big fat softball over home plate, let's talk about the republicans.

you have people like ted cruz, rand paul to take away the ability to collect data. >> right. isn't it time to give the nsa that power back. isn't it time to restart to interrogation program we used after 9/11 and bring down a large part of al qaeda. >> there is a proposal in the senate today to restore the powers that the nsa had previously which expired on november 29th. when you're in this kind of a crisis, environment, you need to be able to get the bad guys. not being able to get phone records five years back and having to wait and get to multiple phone companies to get those and having the phone companies decide how long they're going to keep them is where we are today. that's a problem given what we need to be able to get to attack and defeat this stretch. >> from a military point of view, where are the holes in the policies as you see it?

>> i think if you look at what the president said last night, i think he was trying to reassure the american public. what they were looking for is how. it's almost in a way to tom's point like the president came up, came to play a basketball game and it was a football game. it's not his element. he's not a wartime president. >> george w. bush told jim in his 2000 debate he was going to have a restrained humble policy. >> things change and things change on him and what this requires is a higher level of leadership and commitment than you witnessed last night. what does that mean? obviously, he has talked about more special operations forces in there to advise some of the local forces. the british troops and iraqi security forces and soonny tribal forces. that's going to be important. i think stage zones in that area to protect syrian refugees and a

more intensi more intense campaigns. those are all in the theater going to be necessary to take this ground back. >> there are more options then. >> there are more options. i've been talking at lengths with the national security experts in washington. david used my name. we need a mission statement. what are we trying to achieve here? then the issue on the ground is we've had some small successes. it's not just about clearing, it's been holding at the same time. we're talking about this right now. interlocked, they want the troops to get their troops out of their country. the turkish troops are there to protect the turkish trainers for working with the iraqi troops. that tells you we're in an alice and wonderland where there are parts of this hard for us in the western culture to comprehend. >> all right. senator john and tom, thank you

so much for being on the show this morning. >> can you just say we've eleva elevated two on the same table. >> exactly. not bad, right. >> we've raised the level. >> alabama, we're across the nation here. thank you very much. all right. coming up on morning joe. >> you saw the problem in paris with discussing. by the way, speaking of that problem, if some of those people had guns in their pockets, if they had guns wrapped around their ankle, if they had guns some place on them and knew how to use them, even a little bit, you would had a whole different story in paris. >> the rouz of isis in the attacks in san bernardino reignites the gun debate. casey hunt joins us with the reaction from the top candidates on the trail when morning joe continues.

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then y >> then you go to the tragedy we just had in california. they left because they don't want to die. they talk about they want to die. they don't want to die. they don't want to die. >> if i'm elected president, we will defeat radical islamic terrorist. we will carpet bomb them into oblivi oblivion. i don't know if sand can glow in the dark but we're going to find. >> that was ted cruz and donald trump talking guns and terror. >> what was that? >> casey hunt on the trail with ted cruz over the weekend. >> i'm just curious, casey, is ted cruz now over compensating because he is weak on issues like the nsa and other quote

civil liberty issues? >> joe, i think he absolutely is fighting for the same group of angry voters. you have seen marco rubio and chris christie is another one they have found one way to get to ted cruz's right on national security. i think it's also a tricky point for him to be in from the other side. there are still this block of libra tarn voters and there are some of them in iowa. i think ted cruz has to contort himself on this. the question in particular is a difficult one considering how aggressive that other rhetoric is. take a listen to the extrang i have with him on whether he would put american boots on the grown. >> i'm wondering does that include american boots on the ground? is that something you're willing to support? >> if boots on the ground are

necessary, we should do what is militarily necessary. you see some presidential candidates who treat boots on the ground like they're engaging in a game. it's a way of one upping each other. the job of the commander in chief is to set the objectives. the objectives should be to utterly destroy isis. >> a little bit difficult there to say on the one hand i'm going to do anything necessary to defeat isis. i'm going to kill all the terrorist. carpet bomb them. on the other hand not be willing to go all the way. frankly, jeb bush is farther right on the ground troops than cruz. >> most military people tell you you cannot win this war alone. the question from john is has ted cruz backed down on nsa. we get this report out that our entail agencies and law enforcement officers can't get

phone records over the past five years because people like ted cruz and the people of the united states were against the nsa data collection. >> we had one of our bloomberg reporters last week file reports with cruz in which he tried to position himself on national security as being between the polls of hillary clinton on the left and neocons on the right. neocons, we don't have a dog in the fight in the civil war. we made the same mistakes as in libya. he was trying to find a middle.

>> he's as clueless as the president of the united states. don't have a dog in that fight. >> that was november 30th when the story posted. >> that's staggering ted cruz would say that. >> strikingly at odds with the tone of these comments about making the sand glow in the dark and carpet bombing. just where he is, just as a temper mental thing. >> trying to find the middle ground. >> he's trying to have it both ways. >> the only thing that will grow if you're ted cruz is the sand. he's not going to hit the target. i hope he enjoys his war against sand while the rest of us worry about killing members of isis that want to come over and killkill a member. >> i don't think carpet bombing is a way to attack isis either.

remember, last week on the show he said chris christie making us less. let's go to the poll released just this hour. it's a race for latino voters. donald trump loses against secretary clinton among 11 points and trails by 42 points among latinos. >> that percent is same that mitt romney got. >> that's right. >> senator cruise losing to clinton by 11 parts. his margin better with latinos. jeb bush trails hillary clinton 26 points.

ben carson comes the closest. mark, as you sift through those head to head match ups, what do you take away? >> people saying there's a carson collapse. he's done well in the national polls. i couldn't guess what he does so much better nationally against hillary clinton. look, those hispanic numbers big gaps for the republicans. i would be hardened by those numbers. they're down and need to do better. i would not have been surprised if the republicans were doing worse. >> i've got to say, mark, the fact that donald trump is pulling the same number among latino voters as myitt romney i a bit of a shocker. >> again, is it good enough to win a general election, no. >> john said something spot on

to mark's point about a week ago. he said the inflation will help not only trump but the whole republican brand. it might nuke some of the more awful and horrific things that some of the republican candidates said about the voters. >> san bernardino changes the debate. >> all right. casey hunt, thank you very much. up next, the first of three presidential candidates this morning. former governor mike huckabee here. he joins the table next. york ap, but the rent is outrageous. good thing geico offers affordable renters insurance. with great coverage it protects my personal belongings should they get damaged, stolen or destroyed. [doorbell] uh, excuse me. delivery. hey. lo mein, szechwan chicken, chopsticks, soy sauce and you got some fortune cookies. have a good one. ah, these small new york apartments...

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nice to be on the set. >> governor, i want to follow up on something chris christie said last week. do you agree with chris christie ted cruz has made america less safe by opposing to ability to get phone records? >> i don't want to criticize the actions of one senator. i think we need to recognize there has to be a good balance between protecting the constitutional rights of americans. >> should we repeal that data plan, that nsa data plan? >> i think we need to have when there's probable cause have a clear understanding of what that means that yes, you can get the data but not go after every single american and delve into everything they have because

that violates the constitution. >> we got to be able to go back five years, right. do you think the nsa should collect the data? >> i don't have a problem with them accessing the data once they have the ability to determine mika has given us reason for probable cause. i don't care howl you keep it, it's the access to the data that matters. was the entail communities stabili stability. should we start up that program? >> if we have a program that would save american lives, yes, we should use whatever means available. i don't think some of the means of enhanced ter gaed interrogate appropriate.

>> we should have the program. >> the number one goal of the american president and government is to protect the american people. >> well, do you think the president said anything of measure last night that was helpful to the country? >> not really. i think he blew a great opportunity. i think he used the oval office. >> what was the opportunity? >> the opportunity was to give americans reassurance this was a president focussed on taking care of us. we're going to do whatever it takes. we know who these people are. we're going after them. this is not the roosevelt speech the day after pearl harbor. remember what roosevelt was able to do and he asked congress for the authority to go after the japanese. i'm telling you, one of the things this president could have done last night was say i'm going to congress this week and ask them for the authorizization to go after isis and any form of radical islam that threatens

america. that would been a call to action. >> a more challenging question would be what about the republican counter parts and critiques to making sand glow and saying words i can't say on television. isn't that detrastructive too? >> what i want to say is i think many republican candidates are speaking to the americans who feel this president has attached himself from the reality they face. he's protected by armed guards every day. most americans are not. the people that went to that holiday party last week in san bernardino thought they were having a nice wonderful dinner with their colleagues. one of them set with him and had lunch and he got up and came back and shot them all. this is what people are afraid of. who can they trust? if they don't have his

protection, they want to know he's going to provide true government resources. at least a better form of protection than let's least a better protection than let's not offend anybody, let's not hurt anybody's feelings. i tell you from every day on the campaign trail, there is an extraordinary sense of outrage and because of what they feel is a disconnect of this president and the threats. >> we play the hillary clinton clips and she sounds almost churchillian when she says we might fight them in the air, fight them on the ground, fight them online. there is such a disconnect between this president and even himself on party. >> so where do you think that disconnect is? what's missing in his approach to isis? what isn't he doing that you would be doing? >> i wouldn't leave anything off the table. you would neff tell your enemy what you're not going to do. you never give the limitations of either your will or your

capacity. once you've done that, you've o outlined for your enemy your weakness, your vulnerabilities. we build the relationship with the coalition of not only the gulf states. some of my fellow republicans don't think we should have anything to do with russia. if russia is willing to go kill members of isis, i think we should be grateful they'd be willing to do it. if they want to run air troops or ground troops and take some of these thugs out, let's do it. >> i i this the president said something new while urging for unity with our muslim american counterparts. >> i did not hear him use the word islamic terrorists -- just terrorists. >> but he talked about the

people that -- >> can you do me a favor right now. because i'm a republican, i like to win elections and you win elections by getting people to vote for your party. can you do something right now and say something nice but muslim americans right now who are pursuing the american dreams who are law abiding and let them know that you want them in our republican party of bit as much as you want southern baptists from northwest florida and -- >> absolutely. >> because i'm so worried. i hear some of these other republican candidates saying things, acting as if muslim americans are others, are not one of us. they are our brothers and sisters, are they not? >> absolutely. and we're not at war with islam. i know the president says that but we are at war with the islamists who are wanting to kills. we're not at war with

presbyterians but if they start blowing up and killing people, we're going to be against presbyterians. >> no, radical presbyterians. you and i would be the first one to go to presbyterian churches, hold their hands and say we are with you against the extreme elements of your church, right? >> i'm probably going to get in trouble with the presbyterians, the chosen frozen will probably not vote for me. >> there's a little baptist come tem -- contempt right there. >> one of the most outspoken muslims in this country, he's a terrific example of those who stands up and condemns the radical aspects of his faith that besmirches the faith.

no, we're not afraid of islam, we're not afraid of muslims, we're not in any way disparaging anybody who goes to a mosque, but we are making it very clear that if somebody wants to kill americans, i don't care whether they're doing it in the name of allah or if they're doing it in the name of -- >> jesus. >> whatever. absolutely. >> fair enough. former governor mike huckabee. >> thank you, governor. good luck with the voice. >> and the knee. good lord, you're falling apart. >> falling apart. >> in our next hour -- welcome to the club -- former governor jeb bush and paul rand will both be our guests. what are the... chances. and good tidings to all. hang onto your antlers. it's the event you don't want to miss. it's the season of audi sales event. get up to a $2,500 bonus

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>> up next, president obama vows to overcome what he calls a new phase of terror. the president of the council on foreign relations and richard engel join us with their analysis. plus jeb bush and rand paul join us with their reaction to the speech. >> and it -- we have the first look at the eight people to be in the running to be "time" magazine's 201 pers5 person of

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here's what else we cannot do. we cannot turn against one another by letting this fight be defined as a war between america and islam. that, too, is what groups like isil want. let's not forget what makes us exceptional. let's not forget that freedom is more powerful than fear. >> good morning, it's monday, december 7. we have managing editor of bloomberg politics, john heilemann, the president of the

council on foreign relations, richard haas, richard engal and shawn henry and author of "destiny and power," john meacham. a lot to talk about with willie, joe and me. >> what did you think about the speech last night? >> i thought it was a reaffirmation of what we're already doing to an extent. it's really hard to do that in an election season. >> did you hear anything new last night? >> not on the foreign policy side. that was basically stay the course. what was different i thought was the domestic focus, some of the things that congress needs to consider doing and certain things the american people need to do and avoid doing. >> richard engel, it sounds like on the foreign policy front the president reiterated what isn't working now. >> he laid out a four-point

plan. he talked about staying a course that we've already been on that hasn't been working and he laid out these four points. one, hunt down the plotters of terror wherever necessary and that is happening. there have been drone strikes and aggressive raids around the world. point one, it is happening and there's almost no way to argue against it. point two, he said we're going to keep the training and equipping mission in iraq and syria and sending in special ops. that has been frustrate with problems. that's how isis got its weapons in the first place, which groups get trained, which get equipped has been a disaster. that hasn't been working. staying the course on there is problematic. number three, he talked about sealing the border with turkey. turkey has been a major base for isis. intelligence sharing perhaps that's happening to a degree. and then in the end he sort of talked about how there's

progress being made toward a cease-fire in syria that would bring russia on board. that would be amazingly good but i think that's pretty far off. >> that would be amazingly good. it's amazingly far away. >> this was a primetime address, the president spoke to the nation and it was just the third time during his two terms he addressed the nation from the oval office and he sought to reassure the country, which is uneasy after a wave of attacks later inspired by the islam being state across the globe. he told americans freedom is more powerful than fear. >> since the day i took office i ordered our forces to take out dangers. as a father to two young daughters who are the most precious part of my life, i know that we see ourselves with

friends and co-workers at a holiday party like the one in san bernardino, i know we see our kids in the faces of the young people killed in paris and i know that after so much war, many americans are asking whether we are confronted by a cancer that has no immediate cure. it is clear that the two of them had gone down the dark path of radicalization, perverting an interpretation of islam that calls for war. this was an act of terrorism designed to kill innocent people. congress should act to make sure no one on a no-fly list is able to buy a gun. what could possibly be the argument of allowing a terrorist

for buying a semiautomatic weapon? our intelligence and law enforcement agencies, no matter how effective they are cannot identify every would-be mass shooter, whether that person is moat witted by isil or some other ideology. >> richard haas, what in terms of foreign policy did he not say? >> he would have talked about the force of bombing, he could have increased the direct support the united states is giving to the kurd. he could have talked about more support for the neighbors of iraq and syria and he could have talked about a lot more pressure on turkey. simply to see we're working with turkey to close the recruiting flow, we've been talking to

turkey for a year. hasn't worked. he could have talked about putting more pressure on turkey. what was missing is he talked to we would have stay the course. i think that was missing from the speech. >> what do you think he could have said to allay the nation's fear? >> we needed something new. post san bernardino, we needed more. he was slow to respond to isiis slow to respond to paris. there's a report out now that what he is doing is not working and isis isn't con it and. what did the president do last night? he talked about status quo at home. we know he supports gun control.

he's been talking about that for seven years. that's not new after san bernardino. status quote abroad, as richard engel said, it has not worked. so many pop were watching last night saying is that really it? and i don't know what new -- if the president doesn't want americans to be consumed by fear and here we are on pearl harbor, the anniversary of pearl harbor, then he's got to give americans a reason to believe that he's not just going to stay hunkered down in his ideological bunker and continue to ignore this threat. >> the oval office address typically has been used to make big announcements to the country or to reassure the country. i think he went for the latter. i think he feels there are two versions of reality.

his critics says hi policies are not working, isis is not being slowed. he believes sincerely that it is working, that bombing and special operators combined, putting together a coalition, however weak it may be, is going to work over time. i think he didn't realize the urgency of the american people who see things like paris and san bernardino and think isis is here now, it's not something we can wait for a political reconciliation process. i don't think he sees the urgency. >> it sounded like he was running out the clock. he's saying stay the course, that this is working. it's not working. even his own intel community is saying it's not working. >> isis in syria and iraq are anything but contained according to a new intelligence report. a white house report redistricts isis will spread world wide and grow in numbers unless it

suffers a significant loss of territory on the battlefield in iraq and syria. the report was commissioned before the president's declaration the threat of isis has been contained. >> is it a president that is going to play is safe? is he just running out the clock? >> we heard president obama i forget now how long ago when he enunciated this principal on foreign policy that was don't do stupid stuff. the president has what memory that after 9/11 that the u.s. did a lot of stupid stuff and he's still committed to that principal. it criticized a glib thing to say but i think he does not want to overreact to anybody's fear and to people who are maybe trying to push the country to do

things that he would regard as doing stupid things. >> but, richard haas, he's radically out of step where american people are. only 25% of americans believe his policies are working. they believe we're going to be hit by another terror attack soon. i did go back to his doesn't do stupid stuff philosophy after san bernardino and thought that was about the stupidest philosophy somebody can have when he's going up against a radical force like isis, it is exhibit 1 in a general fighting the last war. >> doesn't do stupid stuff means don't do another afghanistan and send hundreds of thousands of americans abroad. >> it but it means more than that to the president, meaning

being frozen in place, take no risks. >> it going to begin with syria, look at afghanistan and what he's saying is let not overreact. what was missing last night was the increase -- there's a big gap between doing what we're doing and sending a hundred thousand troops. it's a little red herring argument to say the deterrent to what we're doing is another iraq and afghanistan. >> the president, john meacham, has thrived on a false choice, that this president defines his foreign policy by what the last president's foreign policy was. and he's doing anything he can to not be bush and cheney but here you have two presidents

back to back, one who radically overreached and one that i am quite confident historians are going to say radically underreached. >> the president's overcorrecting. henry kissinger used to say if you were the national security adviser, you would send three strategies to the president, world war iii, abject surrender and then something in between. i think there's only no question this is only going to get worse. it's incredible difficult.

no one's saying you can push two buttons in the oval office and solve this problem but at some point cool and steady becomes cool and disengaged and i figure that's where the president is. >> still ahead, presidential candidate senator paul is standing by. we'll ask him about reports that the usa freedom acts is making it harder for the nsa to investigate the san bernardino terror case. but first former governor jeb bush is our guest next on "morning joe." ♪ won't be turned around good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. sure... ok. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab. they come into this iworld ugly and messy.

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>> they just cut me off. >> because you guys were just talking and talking. we're supposed to talk on the

air. joining us from miami, jeb bush, and mark halperin is still with us as well. >> let first of all talk about in your statement last night you said that the president didn't talk about some of the tools that have been taken off the table for the intel community. let's start with nsa data collection. should that be reinstated? >> absolutely, as part of a series of tools that have kept us safe, it's an essential part of the national part of our country. there's no violation of civil liberties. there's all sorts of protections in place. it should be reinstated for sure. >> what about the program that the intel community had where we could actually go out and capture terrorists and interrogate them and find out where the next attacks were coming. that's been replaced by a program where you drop a drone on somebody's home, kill their

family, kill them and kill all actionable intelligence. >> we have put so many constraints not on on the intelligence community but the war fighters. this is a war, which i believe it, is we need to act accordingly. this president does not believe it a war. he believes it a law enforcement exercise. all of the policy memos he's put in place and the intelligence restraints are making it harder for us to be successful in destroying isis. if that is the objective, we should declare war on isis. >> should we allow interrogation of terrorists and -- >> of course we should. we also should have a no-fly zone in syria.

this is the problem of this presidency across the board. there is clearly a third way. he always uses the strawman argument and it's why we have a weakened position as it relates to america as leadership in the world. >> your republican counterparts have had some country teeritiqu president's speech. what specifically would you add on to the strategy at this point or say to help americans fully understand that we have this covered? >> first of all, i would have used this opportunity, this speech, to be able to persuade people that we're at war with islamic radical terrorism and that at such we need to have a strategy and he needed to p persuade people that our fears will subside when we are engaged in the destruction of isis.

aggressively training the local forces, which he talked about but not with the intensity that's necessary, directly harming the kurdish forces in iraq is another element of this. reengaging with the sunni tribal leaders. there is a renewed evident in th -- effort in that regard but it not as necessary. we need to engage diplomatically and politically across the board. but without a military plan, we're in the going to get to the objective, which is to take out isis and restore stability to a region that desperately needs it. >> let's talk politics for half a second. how frustrated are you that you lay out details policy approaches and your opponents that say they're going to make the sand glow. we're going to bomb them so much, we're going to make the sand glow. how frustrated is it to you that

those are the quotes that get through and get the crowd screaming when what we a multi-facetted complex but led by approach to the isis problem. >> as we get closest to the election, i think people are going to focus on who can sit behind the desk and make tough decisions. donald trump has been saying russia should take out isis and and then the expletive of bombing the you know what out of them. >> given how urgent you think it is to defeat isis, what's the argument against advocating putting 20,000, 30,000 troops on the ground now? >> well, i don't know if we're

going to be effective if we don't have a force. we need to make sure we don't recreate another form of isis. i think it important this be solved in conjunction with the arab nations around. >> we just showed a poll that showed 63% of americans support sending ground trips over to isis. how does that look? >> i would ask as commander in chief for options. if the best option were to have more ground troops, of course i would take it. we shouldn't impose restrictions on the military. we should listen to what the military says is the optimum means to achieve success and then the commander in chief should have the back of the military and unleash them.

but we would have to lead for sure. >> john heilemann. >> governor, joe asked you a second ago about something that ted cruz said over the weekend and you jumped to talking about donald trump -- >> no, it was cruz who said he was going to carpet bomb them. >> i thought it was trump. >> no, it was cruz. >> the fact that he did not support the authorization to support military force, even though it was a tepid response that the president presented to congress gives me a sense that he may not understand what this islam being terrorist is all about. allowing a caliphate the size of indiana is not a civil war that

we don't have a dog in the fight for. we clearly have an interest in dealing with this because their organizing principal is to destroy the western nation. of day that they exist is another day of victory for them to recruit more terrorists. >> last week chris christie said that actually ted cruz was making americans less safe and this was before the san bernardino shootings because he opposed the nsa data collection plan. do you agree with that assessment? >> i do. i think the meta data program is an essential tool for the united states to keep us safe. >> jeb bush, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> thank you all. >> come back. >> still ahead, senator rand paul as voice has been one of the loudest in calls for nsa reforms. what has the latest wave of terror attacks done for that argument? we'll ask him when he joins us next. ha ha ha!

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>> when it wasn't fashionable to be getting in a fight over nsa meta data, i was fighting that fight. i understood as a u.s. attorney this is necessary to protect the momentla homeland.

>> for ted cruz's position and rand paul's position on collecting meta data made america less safe? >> yes. >> that was presidential candidate chris christie on "morning joe" last week on his take on the recent nsa reforms and its impact on security. senator rand paul of kentucky, good to you have on the show this morning. >> good morning. >> why don't we start there. any change of heart on the nsa collection program or middle ground? >> a lot has happened since chris christie made those comments. >> there will always be people like christie, who are willing to give up your liberty for a as far as sense of security. but we've looked at this and found that it didn't find any terrorists or stop any attacks.

are we willing to give up all of our privacy, willing to give up the idea that warrants should be individualized and allow data to be collected without anyone's name on the warrant? what snowden revealed is we were collecting all of verizon's records on all americans. not that we had suspension or were targeting our collection of record, i think it's actually made us less safe because i think the haystack is so large that we're getting lost in the haystack. i would like to target the people coming here to attack us. and i think people like rubio and christie and bush, they're not ready to defend the border we shouldn't have let this woman in from saudi arabia or pakistan. we need to have limits on who come to visit us and make sure they're not intent on attacking us. >> and we can argue that. but what about the investigation as it stand now? i mean, isn't there something to be learned from -- >> i think we should learn that we can't have open borders.

i've been advocating for several years now that students, immigrants, visitors, potential fiancees -- i still don't think we have an adequate handle on who is and who are coming to visit us. >> nor, we just showed an ap story that said that the united states can't access the phone record, nsa phone record in the california terror case because of course that law was changed. would you be willing to seek a middle ground? we have governor huckabee on earlier today saying that the government can collect the data but you can't access it unless there is probable cause. is that middle ground?

>> the fourth amendment is pretty clear. for people to say you can't access the record is just wrong. once you get a warrant or have probable cause, it's wrong. the boston bombing happened while we had the bulk data collection, the paris tragedy happened while we have it and also in france they have the bulk collection but on steroids. they have a program a thousand times more invasive. is there any limit to how much authoritarians like christie is willing to give up. they'll come back next week and say give us more of your freedom, we'll protect you. will it have been worth it if we no longer who we are in the

process of defending the country? >> senator, there's a new cbs poll that say over 60% of americans support sending ground trips and ted cruz sid we didn't have a stake in the civil war, we didn't have a dog in that fight. do you think we should send more ground troops in to defeat isis? >> i think we have to learn from history. if there's one then we have learned is regime change didn't work. every time we've toppled a secular dictator, we've got i don't know chaos in the rise of radical islam. this need to be a big debate. i want to be part of it. when the american people hear

the failure of our foreign policy in the middle east, maybe they will choose another way. >> so should assad stay in power based on that formula of what we've lived in the past. >> i think you have evil on one side and i don't think there as if assad had been gone look all the others that want perpetual war, if we had toppled assad, isis would be in charge of all of syria now. the ultimate victory there is going to be when civilized islam rises up to defeat this barbaric form of islam that is isis. >> let me ask you a question i've been asking foreign policy leaders on both sides of the

aisle for the past year. it's provocative but in line with what you're saying and what a lot of people say off camera. would the world be safer if saddam hussein, moammar gadhafi and assad were comfortably in power for today? >> it a mistake to say we advocate for the dictators and a myself take to say woo vokt -- i don't want it to be missin terp praeted. >> i think what we have is much worse. >> but their removal has led to a far more chaotic state. >> absolutely. >> every sunday you'll see on the morning programs, you'll see hillary clinton, john mccain all calling for nor nation building.

we have been wrong, wrong are wrong and we continue to listen. we have to whack up. >> thank you very much. fascinating. >> rand paul showing a great amount of discipline here on a message tens of millions of americans want to hear. >> his principled and disciplined and i think people are saying maybe we need to get rid of some civil liberties, maybe we need to put u.s. ground troops in syria and iraq. rand paul says no and he has a lot of history on his side and he has been you weave a lot of people on tack radio and support he is position. >> rand paul tried to be

everything to everybody. we have noticed him going back to himself and his father's brand myself ang. >> have a bulk did the a direction. but you think that those views did not get much tracks before paris and before san bernardino and this were not getting that much traction this year, it's hard to imagine they're going to get more traction now. and i respect the fact that he's sticking to them. i think it's a bad idea to make policy at a time when people are pan eastbound and fearful. i respect him being consistent with these views. it hard to see this world that we're now in be more receptive to these ideas than it was section monthsing a. >> except you can see a consolidation of all of those voters. some are with ted cruz, some are with others. you and i were talking about how

incoherent ked p ted cruz's foreign policy is because he's caught between where rand paul is and marco rubio is and he is looking foolish stuck in the mid approximately. i will make the sand glow but i won't do a no-play zone. >> he's doing what you accused rand paul of doing earlier, he triesing to be all things to all people. again pure. >> still ahead, london police take down a suspected terrorist just days after the british parliament approved bombing isis argueets yorj dp

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the royal air force unleashed a wave of air strikes over the weekend targeting oil fields in syria. two people were stabbed saturday night in a london subway station in what london officials called a possible terrorist attack. witnesses heard the attacker shout "this is for syria." the suspect is in british court and has been charged with murder. good to have you on the set with us this morning. what's the impact of britain entering this campaign, these strikes? >> it's been a long time coming. britain has wanted to play a part but our political system felt, perhaps because of the iraq warand the aftermath of

that, because of the recession we went through, that we had to heal things at home. the good thing is our economy is much stronger, our defense is much stronger and now the political will to get involved and the house of commons voted with a big majority to teak pakt in the air streaks against syria. and we were already taking part against isil as well. >> would it be useful if the german would play a large are role? is that something you would welcome? >> yes, but the germans are stepping up and -- it's a country with a complicated history. >> but it is time for them to get over that history? >> a big thing would be if

germany would play a bigger role. it's something that's slowly happening but you understand all the baggage that brings them. they're on the receiving end of the refugee crisis. but britain, france, germany, we have to stand alongside the u.s., deprive territory to these isis terrorists by going after them in their homeland, to deny space to them on the internet. i don't want to get too involved in the u.s. political debate here but we have got to be able to track these people find out what they're trying to do to harm us. since the beginning of will the government we've been able to intercept communications, open letters, and listen to people on their telephones when judges and the law allows to us do so and it would be crazy in my view not to continue to be able to do that under the rule of law to keep our people safe and we also

have to go back to the financing. for the first time the united nations is meeting as finance minister to cut off the source of financing. >> we hear a lot about the oil revenues. what else? >> they captured a central bank with a lot of gold. they sell those and teg wits, they're experting gl and i've got huge sympathy for what the states is going through in san bernardino, in paris we've had the attacks and in london the attack on the london subway.

actually, iraqi forces on the ground have pushed isis back, roo deuce their footprint by 0%. so i think a council of despair, nothing can be done, is the wrong thing. a lot need to be done a lot more need to be done. it can work. >> immediately characterized a terrorist ins accidents? >> very early days when the police were investigating the case. it's alleged that the stack. it appears on face of it hey piece to have a political motivation, a terrorist motivation. there are self-starters. we had a trang ka so it's a

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all right. "time" magazine is out with its short list for 2015's person of the year. here they are. eight people in no technical order. presidential candidate donald trump, black lives matter activists, the cans lore of germany, angela merkel, caitlyn jenner, the ceo of uber, travis kalanick, the leader of isis, the president of russia, vladimir putin and the president of iran, hassan rouhani.

>> and the answer is? >> come on, donald trump. >> this year, the last two words, "the donald. but it's why hulseit's cler, the prom person with the biggest impact of the year. >> easy. >> i bet g -- ter sfwr woe have been are. >> tho all those who have been owe funded by hearing the truth about our nation's gun courage and the nrr who think nothing's wrong, there's a polar pear with

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news just in, homland security officer says there's going to be a new threat warning system coming in theneck few days. that's beg neig news? >> what did you learn today? >> what about don rickles coming to msnbc. >> and there's a rolling department on how to keep mrk safe.

mika will our show be on? >> 6 p.m. starting in january. i'm so excited. >> first guest? >> can't say yet. but his initials are j.s. >> i thought it was going to be don rickles. >> you got a book don rk ls, man. stek around. msnpc "live" is coming up next! >> have a great day. >> good morning. om he say plaum opinionio massier kerr and the ice is threat. >> the threat from terrorism is real but we will overcome it. we will destroy isil and any organization that tries to harm us. our success won't depend on tough talk and giving in tole have use or fear.