much more information coming up that's going to do it for this hour of msnbc live. i'm kate snow. "mtp daily" starts now picking up coverage. >> if it's thursday. >> sted and marco rubio duking it out but differences on immigration are downright confusing. don't worry, we've got clarity for you. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. >> well, good evening, from washington. i'm chuck todd, and this is "mtp daily." people have been anticipating the idea of a ted cruz/marco rubio showdown in the 2016 race. it's here. and the first dividing line between these two rising stars, immigration. >> i understand that marco wants to raise confusion. it is not accurate what he just said that i supported

legalization. indeed, i led the fight against his legalization and amnesty bill. >> does ted cruz rule out ever legalizing people in this country illegally now. >> legalization -- >> do you rule it out. >> i never supported legalization and i do not intend to support legalization. >> tuesday's debate, cruz tried to pin down rubio as proponent of president obama's policies and calling it amnesty. rubio's co-authorship of the bill has come back to haunt him with conservatives, something rubio notes. >> i recognize that my position is not a majority position in my party, maybe even not majority position in large parts of america. >> in an attempt to muddy the waters with his potential chief rival, rubio pointed out ted cruz supported legalization in the past. here's cruz on the senate floor in 2013 talking been amendment he proposed to that gang of eight legislation. >> if the proponents of the bill

demonstrate a commitment not to politics, not to campaigning all the time but to fixing this problem, to finding a middle ground, that would fix the problem, and also allow for those 11 million people here illegally a legal status with citizenship off the table. i believe that's the compromise that can pass. >> cruz says, his amendment didn't mean compliance, though, with the bill. >> the fact that i introduced an amendment to remove part of the gang of eight bill doesn't mean i support the rest of the gang of eight bill. the gang of eight bill was a mess, a terrible bill. >> wait a second. >> the rubio campaign is trying to claim -- >> sounds like you wanted the bill to pass? >>, i wanted the bill to pass. my amendment to pass. what my amendment did -- >> you said the bill. >> -- is take citizenship off the table. what it -- what -- it doesn't mean that i supported the other aspects of the bill. >> well, does that mean he

misrepresented himself? cruz tried to clean that up today. >> i introduced an amendment that made anyone here illegally permanently ineligible for citizenship. that amendment called their bluff because it revealed that the proponents of the gang of eight were being hypocrites, not telling the truth, what they claimed they whethere intereste was not what they were interested in. they wants millions of new democratic voters. >> another factor that helps cruz's argument, senator jeff sessions voted for the same amendment cruz is talking about. you're hard pressed to find a senator -- session is the senator who helped donald trump craft his immigration plan. cruz didn't present his amendment as a poison pill at the time. listen to him again in 2013. cruz highlights bringing people out of the shadows and citing this amendment as a way to pass the larger bill.

>> the proponents of this bill repeatedly point to as their principal objective to provide a legal status for those who are here illegally to be out of the shadows. this amendment would allow that to happen. if this amendment were to pass, the chances of this bill passing into law would increase dramatically. and so i would urge the committee to give it full consideration and to adopt the amendment. >> he appealed to good faith efforts with very different intentions. cruz has never been explicit about his plans for undocumented immigrants. i couldn't get an answer on what to do. what do you do with the 11 million on immigration? >> you know, it's an interesting thing in washington, that is the question that both president obama and democrats love to focus on. >> what do you do with 11 million people? do you have to send them back or give them a way to get legal? >> chuck, i don't accept the premise that you have to solve

every aspect of this problem all at once. >> that's fine. but explain how you do it. >> i am explaining how. the last time congress passed immigration reform was 1980s. >> right. you departmeidn't say what you' >> first secure the borders and solve the problem of illegal immigration, and then i think we can have a conversation about what to do about the people who remain here. >> rubio says cruz is trying to set himself up for the general election, saying cruz is leaving the door open for legalization. >> he said he didn't intend to legalize people in the future. again, crafty language. they wanted to get through a primary without having to discuss it. his hope once he got into the general election, to then start talking about legalization as a way to attract more voters. but everyone running for president has clearly stated what they think needs to happen with people in the country illegally. i think ted cruz needs to be clear about what his stance is today on that but i can tell you what it's been in the past. he strongly supported legalizing people in the country illegally.

>> rubio's trying to paint cruz as another politician who will say and do anything. cruz believes he has the high ground because it's rubio standing next to chuck schumer. don't be surprised if this is the negative ad campaign you see these two engage in heavily now and february. the immigration debate will shaep a big part of the campaign starting in the state of iowa. joining me now, congressman steve king of iowa whom the cruz campaign asked to represent them on this issue tonight. welcome to "mtp daily." >> happy to be on. >> let me ask you, first, a question that senator cruz argued about for in 2013. do you believe his amendment on for legalization that took off the table citizenship for undocumented, do you believe that is a middle ground in this debate when it comes to immigration. >> i don't take that position that the way it's described but i would say this. as i watched that tape and the

debate and the committee and i was aware up to the minute of what was taking place at the time, if he was to force a vote there would be no path to citizenship and expose the objective especially of the democrats that rubio had been swept up with, that's the only way to draft the amendment. and enin i listened to his rhetoric on that. you want to make an argument that your amendment has the best chance of passing i looked at who voted on which side, border security rule of law people voted with ted cruz, proamnesty voted with others. >> do you believe he was misrepresenting his intentions with the bill? if that amendment had passed that that would have made this bill pass both in the house and senate? >> i think that that was part of the rhetorical argument to get a sway in that. at no point did ted cruz indicate he was going to vote for this bill. i think what's missing here, if rubio can assign a motive for ted cruz, then we ought to look

at the gang of eight bill and recognize that it is instantaneous amnesty that's retroactive amnesty. if you've been deported in the past it invites people come back to america. rubio and the gang of eight do not introduce a prospective. if you get back to america, they don't address that at all. if ted cruz wanted to play the same game, he could open the avenue up and say there's no enforcement going forward with people that get into america under the gang of eight. >> you said he was making a rhetorical argument. does that mean we shouldn't have taken him at his word, he was looking for a way to find a which to the bill that we were being naive or people listening to that being naive? that phrase rhetorical argument, the washington speak, no. >> i've offered a lot of amendments on the floor and in committee and i've been known to bring some pressure to the other side to try to bring some debate

out of them and put in em in a place. but that argument that it increases the odds of the bill would finally pass, i think that is a rhetorical argument and meant to be made for the other side. when you live in this arena, you hear that, recognize it for what it is. >> i hear you. i've been in the town a long time. you've been in the town a long time. but that does come across as a little bit misleading, to the average vote. mr. have mrs. voter here. >> i wouldn't disagree with that. but i'd like to explain to mr. and mrs. voter this is an arena in 2013, and if ted cruz did something tactically back then that was designed to expose motives of the people pushing this horrible gang of eight bill that the american people rejected maybe he should have been thinking about potentially becoming a candidate for president. is that what we're holding him accountable here? when you look at people that voted with ted cruz on the gang

of eight bill, there the jeff sessions people, it would be me if i were voting in the united states senate and it's also chuck grassley, chairman of the committee, and john cornyn and others that voted with ted cruz. look at the votes, let the people at the table interpret these actions on the part of ted cruz. by the way we shouldn't let a presidential candidate turn this whole thing into casting aspersions upon the motive of someone. i ask people, read the 11-page document on immigration that ted cruz rolled out 2 1/2 weeks ago. i had some voice in that. that's real clear i wish that ma marco rubio would read that, too. >> i did read it. you seem to imply that if everything in that plan is put into place, including so-called sanctuary cities, that you wouldn't have to deal with the 11 million, sounds like you believe it would become self-deer.

tation, at the end of the day you'd have local law enforcement sending people back and you don't believe the 11 million would be there after e-verify put in. you're say self-deportation. >> i wouldn't use that word. i would say that instead because it includes and brings into this local law enforcement, when people unlawfully present in america violate the law, encountered by law enforcement, there would be the enforcement that exists in the law today and overtime numbers would shrink. i think there would be existing population that have their roots go down and out, that would stay in the country in the shadows. i don't know how big that population would be but i don't think it becomes a problem we have to deal with with public policy at that point. that may be the best solution we can get at the end of this. >> any compromise you would agree to that would keep 11 million here, give them some legal status without citizenship? congressman, steve king.

>> me, as an individual, i kicked a dent in my filing cabinet in 1986 when reagan let me down signing the amnesty act. i knew what it would do to the rule of law and if you're -- you've got to have respect for the rule of law. it got to be there in our society, in our culture. when you reward people for breaking it, then you're going down this how do you ever restore that respect again? ted cruz understands that we have to have a policy that restores a respect for the rule of law. once we get to that point, if there are people left in this country that are herele illegally we can maybe have that conversation. it's a three to five-year endeavor to restore the respect for rule of law and that's a difficult task given so much disrespect in the last administrations. >> you and ted cruz disagree, you can marco rubio on the same side of the issue. have you talked with senator cruz and told him you believe the usa freedom act makes it

harder to track terrorists, correct. >> we've had discussions about almost every piece of policy there is. the word is on this, under the usa freedom act, there's 18 months roughly of access to metadata records and under the patriot act, previous legislation, maybe five years. hadn't been accumulated yet but intel people tell us the most important part is the 18 months. it's not a difference that should make a difference between the president of the united states. it got to be who's going to restore the country, put the soul of america back together again. >> congressman steve king, thanks for coming on. >> thank you. >> before we go to break, developing news about former house speaker dennis hastert. his lawyer says the former speaker suffered a stroke in november and has been hospitalized for six weeks. illinois republican currently awaiting sentencing after pleading guilty if a federal hush money case, after he allegedly paid to have a past sexual misconduct allegation

concealed. hastert set to be sentenced february 29th but it could be delayed over health issues. the threat of a donald trump independent run. how it could hurt the republicans' chances in 2016 for president. but would it be a good thing for republicans running for congress? republican congressman, the only pollster who serves in congress, joins me next to break it down. >> ted cruz sets his sights beyond iowa and new hampshire. update from the first stop on his campaign tour. is he making a mistake? (donkey noise) (elephant noise) (mic screech) there's a big difference between making noise... (mic tap) ...and making sense. (elephant noise) (donkey noise) when it comes to social security, we need more than lip service. our next president needs a real plan

to keep social security strong. (elephant noise) hey candidates! enough talk. give us a plan.

developing news out of the california now. minutes ago, the first charges related to the san bernardino attack were handed down. enrique marquez, friend and former neighbor of syed farook and tashfeen malik charged with

conspiring to commit crimes of terror up. he's also charged with unlawful purchase of two assault rifles used in the deadly shooting as well as defrauding immigration authorities by entering into a sham message with a member of fa farook's family. president obama will pay tribute to the 14 individuals killed in the terrorist attack. today, president obama stood with his national security team and continued his push to try to ease americans' fears about terrorism heading into the holiday season. he made comments at national counterterrorism center. >> at this moment, our intelligence and counter terrorism professionals do not have any specific and credible information about an attack on the homeland. that said, we have to be vigilant. anyone trying to harm americans need to know that we're strong and resilient. that we will not be terrorized.

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with humira, control is possible. plenty of republicans preparing for the possibility of donald trump on the ballot in the general election. but the ballots of power of the house and senate could depend where mr. trump shows up on the ballot. obviously, republican leaders believe if trump gets the party's nomination, it could spell disaster further down the ballot. but what if trump runs as an independent candidate? perhaps a different story. it may not be good for the white house but trump and the republican nominee would likely split the vote and fall to a democrat in general. republicans down the ballot stand to benefit on a conservative voter turnout. 1992, ross perot ran as third person candidate. republicans picked up nine seats in the house, and they actually didn't suffer any net losses in

the senate. redistricting from '90 census had some shifts but principles remains the same. republicans gained two seats with perot on the ballot. trump excites and democrats only gained nine seats in the house and didn't win over the house and some republicans argued because perot was on the ballot. voters showing up to cast ballots for trump or his competition are faced with dilemma for local representation. trump, of course, is leaving himself some room to make a choice. joining me now a man who has distinction of being the only former pollster serving in congress. anyway, it's republican tom cole of oklahoma. good to see you, sir. >> chuck, great to see you as well. >> look, let's do transparency here. you and i were having a conversation about this a few weeks back. i made the point on the air, and you said, yeah, this might not

be good for the presidency but look no further down the ballot. you firmly believe ross perot kept democrats from having bigger gains in '92 and perhaps making real gains in '96? >> there's no question that he did. again, i want to state for the record, i take mr. trump for his word and delighted these going to run as a republican and says he's not going to be an independent should in happen it's not a bad thing for republicans because it generates generally conservative voters coming out. that certainly was the case with ross perot. while it hurt to some degree, it's debatable at the presidential level, there's no question that higher voter turnout generally tended to vote republican. as you pointed out in '92 i happened to executive director of the national republican congressional committee. we gained seats. the first time in 100 years an incumbent president lost and his party gained.

these multiway races aren't always bad for you. >> let me ask you about top of the ticket, what it means down the ballot, if there were no third party candidates. there's been different people making different arguments. you've done this for a long time. you've looked at this by the numbers. how much does a down the ballot republican for the house or the senate have to over perform a losing presidential nominee in order to survive when it comes to, let's say, donald trump or some argue ted cruz isn't good for down the ballot? >> it varies a lot district by district, state by state. the reality is, over the last 20 years, the merger between the presidential vote and what people do as they move down the ballot has really been dramatic. in the old days we used to get a lot of states that would vote republican at the top of the ticket and then have democratic congressmen and senators typical of southern states, typical in a

state like mine of oklahoma. these days presidential vote mirrors what the -- what the down ballot candidates can doen an incumbent has certain advantages, they've worked the district, know the district, better funded than challengers but that vote is very, very hard to escape the undertow. i was chairman of the nrcc in 2008 campaign and i can tell you what happened presley, it costs us a lot of seats. >> it's understandable if senators and house members all house members on the ballot and senators, it is understandable why they care who's at the top of the ticket, then. even 20 years ago. >> i think much more so, because again, they know that that's going to define the nature of the race that they fight. once a person makes that decision presidentially, better than 90% likely to vote the same way congressionally. you always have great candidates that either democrat or

republican that can defy that trend. we're sitting on 25 seats that barack obama has carried. so you want to have a very competitive presidential candidate because of normal patterns and a presidential year, assert themselves in those seats, incumbents will be at a great disadvantage. we only hold five seats that the president carried but now have a republican incumbent. >> let me ask you this, how much hand wringing about trump and cruz. the only two candidates in some polls that hillary clinton leads. >> i think, frankly, most members are following this with a great deal of interest. both of the candidates have support. i don't want to suggest every calculation is made on the basis of self-interest. they're skillful politicians. i think donald trump is quite a phenomenon. he may be a game changer in some ways electorally. cruz has run an exceptionally

smart campaign. it's early to tell. you're going to have to see what happens in primaries and what the general election looks like coming out of a republican convention. >> but if you care about the house and senate only, you might as well root for donald trump, third party. i know you can't say that. numbers don't lie. >> well, look, again, multiple conservatives candidates top of the ticket don't help you down ballot, they help. >> only member of congress who polled for a living. god love you, buddy. still ahead, as the u.s. and cuba make more progress on their relationship, should cuban immigrants still get special treatment? one florida congressman who is a cuban-american himself says no. believe it or not, another top obama official comes under fire for using personal e-mail for government work. did he not have a newspaper during the time this was an issue? we'll have details ahead.

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the united states and cuba reached an historic deal that would allow flights. a trial run for direct postal service for the first time in 52 years. and, all of this comes one year to the day since president obama announced he would restore diplomatic ties with cuba. embassies have been reopened, cuba taken off the list of state sponsors of terror up and president obama loosened trade restrictions calling for the end of the embargo. one florida lawmaker says, it's now probably time to re-evaluate how cubans are treated when they arrive in the country. he's introduced a bill to do that. cubans are automatically granted benefits like food stamps and medicaid. benefits take immigrants of other nationalities years to obtain. the congressman says the a matter of fairness. joining me now, the sponsor of the bill, congressman carlos

co core bella. >> there have been a lot of ways that cubans when they have come over however here to the united states have had special treatment. wet foot, dry foot a lot of people are aware of when it comes to political asylum, there's this deal. how many of these different special deals do you think need to go away besides the one that you're sponsoring. >> here's the issue, chuck. our country should continue tradition of accepting cubans fleeing political persecution in cuba, not much has changes inside of cuba, people are still being arrested, beaten, imprisoned for disagreeing with the government. those people should be welcomed to the united states. what we cannot allow is for abuse of special privileges and benefits. there are cases, and this has been documented by the

"sun-sentinel" and other outlets in florida, where cubans are coming to the united states, qualifying to receive a lot of the benefits, including social security, then moving back to the island while they continue receiving these benefits. that is totally unacceptable. it violates the spirit of the law. it's an abuse of the country's generosity. and i filed a bill to put an end to that. >> let me ask you though, wet foot, this makes perfect sense, but going baing to wet foot/dry foot, the special treatment cubans get over and above, why shouldn't that change if we have direct flights? >> there's two things undermining laws like the cuban adjustment act which allows cubans to come to the united states legally and in one year become permanent residents, something that takes other immigrants much longer. one the president of the united states accepted the castro government, he's accepted raul castro as a legitimate leader.

we have diplomatic relations with cuba. that mean in his eyes the cuban dictatorship is legitimate, of course i disagree with that. the other factor undermining the policy is a lot of cubans who come to the united states, spirit of the law treats them like exiles, like refugees, and once they become u.s. residents, a year and a day later, they return to cuba. that undermines the claim or the idea that these people are fleeing persecution. those two factors are combining to undermind this policy. what i'm trying to do is find a healthy balance and say, look, there's still people who get beaten, get abused, whose human rights are violated in cuba. allow those a quick path to freedom while ending all of the fraud and accuse associated with the policy. >> should there be a different i guess a different way these folks -- look, if cubans come here, they say they're fleeing,

political persecution, that there is -- that they don't automatically get granted this, they have to go through a process, a longer process. should we put that back into place? that's what was loose about the policy for years. >> that is what i have introduced is a step in that direction. these are refugee benefits. any person who comes to the united states and granted asylum, a process that takes sometimes up to years, they're eligible for benefits what happen we're doing now is we're saying, if you're a cuban and you come to the united states, if you want these benefits, you actually have to file for asylum like anyone else. if -- otherwise if you're coming as an economic immigrant you'll get a work permit like everyone else and you can start working in our country. by the way, legal immigrants who come to the country are banned for five years from receiving any welfare benefits, because the idea is we bring people to this country to work so they can

contribute. >> seems to make sense. my guess we're heading down everything's going to get normalized at some point including how cubans get treated when they come to the united states. >> how cubans on the island get treated, too. >> there's more there. right, i have heard plenty of stories of things not so good there still. thank you very much. >> have a good night. up next on "mtp daily," ted cruz hits the road for a tour of super tuesday states. is he ged getting ahead of himself. first, hampton pearson. >> we had a federal reserve hangover on wall street. dow sliding 253 points. s&p off by 31. nasdaq down by 68 points. another tough session for crude oil prices. slipping more than 1.5% today to close below 35 a barrel. that decline pressured shareses of oil giants like exxon mobil and chevron. number of americans filing for first time jobless claims

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ted cruz is wrapping up the year by setting sights beyond iowa, new hampshire, south carolina. he's focusing on super tuesday, and the so-called sec primary states, that means it's a big chunk of southern states. cruz launched a 12-city tour, tulsa, mobile, alabama, atlanta, georgia. the take-off with ted tour. cruz's latest effort to become the consensus conservative candidate anti-establishment

choice. what he said to reporters before kicking off the tour. >> from day one, our strategy has been a national strategy. we are extremely well positioned in the first four primary states. we are all in in iowa. we are all in new hampshire. we are all in in south carolina. and we are all in nevada. but ten days after south carolina, boom, super tuesday, the so-called s.e.c. primary. states like georgia, alabama, tennessee, arkansas, oklahoma, texas. super tuesday, i believe, is teed up to be an incredible day for our campaign. >> well, ted cruz the pundit may be right there. on march 2nd, if ted cruz does what he says he does, he should be the delegate leader, if everything falls into the place that he thinks it's going to fall. former democratic senator, blanch lincoln, and senior editor at the national review, chris cillizza. of course, a member of "the washington post" political team.

true. is that true? >> confirmed. >> let me start with you, ted cruz is basically, by doing this, almosthereby banking iowa. to me, s.e.c. tuesday is a big day for him only if he wins iowa. it won't matter if he doesn't. is this cart before the horse business. >> there's time to go back to iowa before there. i would say no candidate has executed his strategy more methodically and consistently than ted cruz, without any course corrections. he's had a plan for years relentlessly doing it and part of the strategy he's got it worked out geographic strategy than other candidates have. >> what's interesting, blanch, i think this is an acknowledgement this is a national campaign. we -- we reporters, chris and i, want to make this iowa, new

hampshire, south carolina. i think donald trump and ted cruz, to a lesser extent, and frankly hillary clinton and her way, they're campaigning with, everything's national and there aren't any little differences anymore. >> he's going to probably do pretty well in arkansas. there will be a certain amount of following there. i think you're right. but it does do -- it comes down to bigger states. arkansas will contribute, and they'll be a part of it. i think you're exactly right, he's got a plan, he's had it. coming to those states is a part of it. he'll do well there. >> who thinks it's a national campaign more than cruz is marco rubio. rubio's organization is not in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, not as good as ted cruz's. i don't think it's not as good as donald trump's, jeb bush because they're banking on the idea this is fundamentally a national committee.

these things we used to mat so much, win iowa or new hampshire may not. i think cruz -- >> cruz is the only one trying to do both. >> cruz is doing -- exactly. >> trying to do both. >> cruz is in first place. who has a state he can definitely win among the first three? cruz. and who is really well positioned on super tuesday? cruz. i'm not saying he's going to be the nominee. but look who has a better case from today to march 2nd than ted cruz. and the answer's no one. >> donald trump. >> maybe. >> i was going to stay. don't underestimate trump go i learned that lesson. >> 15,000 in an airplane hangar, he didn't go into arizona. literally landed as if it was a general election. >> right. >> we don't know on the trump thing. >> look, every time you make a prediction -- >> no one knows how to handle him. >> well, well, trump. fascinating in the debate tuesday, rubio and cruz playing nice with trump. cruz acts as if trump is his

best friend. which is all based on the unstate the belief that trump will implode at some point and then the race will be cruz and rubio. when is that going to happen. >> or he can -- >> also means if he does -- let's take blanch's theory, ted cruz, evangelicals, yes, we know this is a state, mike huckabee did welling elected governor. >> did well in iowa. >> you believe trump will do well? a tea party contingent there. >> absolutely. >> there's an opening for the establishment. two-thirds of the electorate in southern states are conservative, both evangelical and nonsecular tea party conservatives that trump's appealing to, isn't that the path for rubio or -- >> rubio. >> rubio or rubio. >> or kasich or bush. >> it's not an establishment in washington, too. trump provides that. in arkansas, they're all about, you know, give me somebody that's you know not washington. >> give me a new york real

estate -- >> sorry, listed on the new hampshire. ballot. >> manhattan, new york, that's it, man. that's -- he's that guy. >> that's the part of this that's been the head scratcher. it's a new york city, manhattan guy. >> maybe republican voters are more broad mined than the people commentary had given them credit for. >> stick around. next, hear what vladimir putin thinks about donald trump. his stable mate. we'll be right back.

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. [ speaking foreign language ] >> the epic end of the year vladimir putin press conference weighing in on donald trump and the race for the american presidency. putin made comments, in fact, after that annual year-end presser. we learned that president obama will hold his end of the year press conference tomorrow afternoon, before heading to san bernardino, and then from there to hawaii. up next, who, what, where, when, why in the headlines including where ben carson won't be heading at the end of the month.

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>> the who, it's former alabama governor, don sigelman, the imprisoned former governor just released from solitary confinement after being there eight weeks. according to his son, his dad was placed in solitary for calling a liberal talk show to allege he is a democratic political prisoner. eight weeks of solitary for that? got to be more to the story. i hope we're missing something here. to the why. a special edition of running wild with bear grylls featuring president obama and the alaskan wilderness. you can see the leader of the free world eat salmon chewed by a bear. tone on nbc. oh, man. presidential politics in the 21st century. the where.

it's africa, dr. ben carson will not be traveling to but his campaign says he scrapped the trip over security concerns. they say it has nothing to do with carson's recent slide in the resent slide in the polls. to the win, it's february 9th which is the official date of the new hampshire primary. the election calender is set. you know our friend could have said it for tomorrow. now to the why. it's bernie sanders. he's announced he received over 2 million do nations and less than 2% have given the maximum amount of money. he received an endorsement from a 700,000 member union. the workers of america. a few weeks from iowa and bernie sanders is hanging around. guess who may out race hillary clinton this year in money? bernie sanders. ash carter's e-mail fail. did he not read the news? stay tuned.

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brighter. bigger. thinner. even curvier. but what's next? for all binge watchers. movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. senior member of president obama's cab nit is under fire for using personal e-mail and it's not the one you're thinking of. carter used his own e-mail account for two months after former hillary clinton's account was revealed. while traveling in iraq he occasionally sent administrative e-mails to close staff but should have known better. >> i have to hold myself to

absolutely strict standards in terms of cyber security and doing things that are appropriate. i didn't in this case. it's a mistake and it's entirely my own. >> well, that's true. i just, chris, this is the classic case of an unforced error. what was he thinking? >> let's just go through the timing which makes it worse. ash carter starts as secretary of defense around february. the hillary news is broken by the new york times right at the beginning of march. at that point there, if it hadn't occurred to you this might not be a good idea, it would seem as though someone on your staff would be like hey, secretary, we may not want to do this. it boggles the mind of why you would continue to do this. i'm not suggesting, i don't know that there's anything.

it's just it's such an unforced error. it's unnecessary to bring this kind of attention. >> look. it's political incompetence. or at least malpractice. i know you don't want to say imcompetence. it's stupid. >> you're right. it's unnecessary. >> it's tone deaf. why is it always people in the national security administration? >> why can't it be interior? >> i get it sometimes you're in optic and you have blinders on. you're just focussed on your job. but it just seems, is anybody around him thinking about this? >> well, there was nothing in there that's bad. i'm not suggesting there is but you have to understand the position you're in and your defense partner rules if they do not do this. you should follow the department of defense rules, i mean. >> you don't want to say much on that. >> some of it can be age too.

i'm not good with gadgets. you're right, it's the secretary of defense. >> you have the nongov. it's not that hard. >> with secretary clinton, one of the worst things about this, there's no one around these people to tell them this is a bad idea or felt they were able to say that to them. >> gawker has been on a, kind of obsessed with it. secretary clinton's former press person at the state department for a while. they forwarded all the e-mails and been releasing. one of them, there's an e-mail conversation he's having with a couple of quarters. they made a question, it sounded like a question about the campaign and he writes the statement, i don't want to be -- i want to avoid foya. there's reasonable explanation he might have said that meaning he don't want to talk politics

on state.gov but the statement says i want to avoid foya and that's not good. >> no, it's not. gawker has gotten a lot of good stories out of this. they had one about mike allen in politico. it shows you it's an effective strategy. the hard thing about it is the lag time and the time it takes to get these documents. it affirms for me the effectiveness of first primary source reporting. getting documents and looking through them remains good. >> to be a former senator here, one of my pet peeves is you guys are not part of foya. much of congress is hard to foya in terms of your communication. shouldn't that change in some form or another? >> i thought we probably were. >> but you can't foya a lot of this stuff. >> congress has a grand tradition kperc

tradition exempting itself from laws it writes. >> we have to start doing all the same kind of business rules everybody else had to do, it was amazing. we had to make sure people had leave and all the rules applying to regular business had to apply to us. >> was that bad? >> no, it's great. >> it was a change. >> it was a big change. >> i'm going to somehow combine star wars and the presidential campaign. we were just talking during the break, jeb bush debating this idea of saying no, if donald trump is the nominee, i will not support him. we're not ready to say it yet but we all know they're debating it. we quoted yoda this morning. do or not do. why have a public debate? trump as preempted it. i don't need his support. >> and the time to debate it was a few months ago when they took the silly pledge and said they would support whoever won the nomination. >> just saying it the other night. >> even in this, you can't say

this person is unfit and unready to be commander in chief. but yes, i'm forit. those two things don't go together. >> everybody that's said that, it does. >> how can you believe that? >> i'm going to leave it there. this was a fun one. i appreciate it. we'll be back tomorrow with more mtp daily. erika hill will pick up our coverage right now. >> tonight on msnbc breaking news, the first charges filed in the wake of the san bernardino attacks against this man who purchased the guns used to carry out that attack. president obama heading west to meet with victims tomorrow as he vows to keep americans safe. >> we cannot give into fear or change how we live our lives because that's what terrorist want. >> donald trump has a message for his republican opponents, easy to shift in tone plus new reaction from trump to putin's