the establishment, the media, the special interests, the lobbyists, the donors. they're all against me. i'm self-funding my campaign. i don't owe anybody anything. i only owe it to the american people to do a great job. they are really trying to stop me. everybody knows it. everybody sees it. the establishment actually is against me but really coming online because they see me as opposed to cruz, who is a nasty guy who can't get along with anybody.

you know, look, at a certain point you've got to make deals. all right. g good morning. it is tuesday, january 26th. >> he's calling him two things now. >> nasty. >> a nasty guy and he's calling him the canadian and everyone hates him. >> so silly. we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. senior contributor for the week matt lewis. he is out with a new book "too dumb to fail, how the gop betrayed the reagan revolution to claim relaxelections." co-host of with all due respect, john hol ran. chris christie kind of lost it on a young woman reporter. we'll get to that. was she a reporter? >> young woman.

>> just asking a question? >> the mop. i don't know. >> please tell me it was not just a person. okay. would have been better if it was a reporter. the trump thing. we laugh about the canadian deal. >> we know -- >> his numbers have bled. have bled since he started calling him the canadian. >> it's not even about the citizenship thing. it's about reminding people that he's canadian. >> born in canada. >> never mind the natural born citizen legal question. it's just the reminder. >> this guy is not from texas. >> a pipeline. >> one of the -- one of the most cutting lines was when ted cruz went after his scottish grand mom, or mother and trump goes, hey, but i was born here. >> it was nice, though, in the wolf blitzer interview you played a part of in a minute ago. he did basically say he would endorse ted cruz if he ran for

prime minister of canada. if it plants doubt in somebody's mind. guys, i'm just saying. if you nominate this guy, he'll be in court for two years. >> doesn't help that the establishment on both sides are going right along with it. it's a tough -- i don't know. >> shadow of a doubt is what he wants to plant. >> well, it has been cast. so, six days away until -- six days. we're actually in the countdown to the iowa caucuses. two weeks until the new hampshire primary. a new poll for the republican race out shows another growi national lead for donald trump at 39%. the nbc news survey monkey weekly online tracking poll has trump increasing his lead over ted cruz. he is now up 22 points as ted cruz falls four points. marco rubio is at 10 and ben carson 8%. trump's lead is growing among white evangelical voters.

>> you look at the canadian deal. you look at the timing. ted cruz is down 9 points in that group. donald trump, since talking about two corinthians, plus 5 with evangelical voters. it is, matt lewis -- >> the world is upside down. >> pretty breath taking. >> it's crazy. if you look at how good, not only how bad donald trump is about talking about the evangelicals. how good ted cruz is, it rolls off his tongue. ted cruz is so good at it and the fact that he is not dominating among iowa evangelicals is stunning. >> i've talked about this before on the show. it bears repeating. i'll say it again quickly. when i went into evangelical churches, i said, i am you, i've been here. since i was a little kid i was

here four days and nights a week. don't vote for me because i am the best christian. i'm the worst. not even a close call. but, i know who you are, i know it's important to you. at the end of the day i believe what you believe, and i will take you and your fears, your concerns, up to washington. and that works. then the next guy would come up, and he would be like -- >> reciting from -- >> jesus means a lot to me! jesus, i just don't go anywhere without jesus in my back pocket. evangelicals are shrewd enough like everybody else, to figure out what's in their best interest. they will take a guy who is honest and straightforward and say i know what i am but i know who you are and i'm going to go up there and beat the hell out of anybody who gets in the way of standing up for my rights. versus playing pious. >> i've seeing him do it.

he is very good at speaking evangelical. but there is an element of incin se incin serity in his rap. >> cruz has always been sort of sank mo sanctimonious. i'm surprised people see through it. a lot of times pannederidering. >> people are done with it all. >> you can pander in a 30-second ad. but when you're in their church, when you go to wednesday night supper, when you go to training union sunday nights. when you walk through sunday school classes, they can figure it out. and i have seen it! i've seen people running for sheriff at first baptist church in pensacola coming in, doing their rap and everything like this. and then they -- they leave the door, it closes and go. pfh! >> the guy found a bible last

week. >> what we've learned about trump is that he transcends all these cross-tabs. he leads among evangelicals because they think he's strong and he'll change the way we do business. it's an emotional gut thing that's not related to an idealogical issue for anything specific. if you like inside of iowa, cross-tabs, gun owners, he's been back and forth on guns his entire life in his career. they like the guy. >> shameless self promotion. my book. this is why this is happening in this election right now. if you look at things that conservatives like me and paul ryan are concerned about. one thing. we need to fix them to ensure longevity. donald trump says let's not mess with social security. this is a he decision right now over what it means to be a

conservative or republican. >> willie, when you were talking about gun owners, evangelicals, what is the thing that's a common denominator? it's that the majority of gun owners believe despite his past views that donald trump will fight for them. for the second amendment. they believe he will. evangelicals believe the same thing. is he pure as driven snow. no. but they want somebody who will fight for the second amendment and fight for their evangelical values. you go down the line. that's where he's winning. >> let's look at new hampshire, where in a third poll in as many days shows trump doubling his nearest opponent. he is up seven points since december to 33%. 19 points ahead of ted cruz at 14%. governor john kasich who yesterday picked up the endorsement of the globe jumped to third. jeb bush, 9, marco rubio at 8.

chris christie to 7. >> a ton to look at here, john. trump up seven points. absolutely blowing away the field. kasich is the story right now with the momentum. marco rubio down to fifth place. what strikes you the most in this poll? >> you hit it on the head there, joe. the kasich story is now emerging as a clear trend line. he has now been in second place or close to second place in about eight or nine polls in this month alone in new hampshire. we've asked the question for the past three or four months over and over again who is going to break away among the establishment candidates in new hampshire? who is going to get dominance in that lane. no one did it for months and months. it looks increasingly like john kasich may be the guy who is playing the hot hand among the four big establishment republicans in the state where they're all competing hardest, which is, of course, new hampshire.

>> staying in new hampshire on the democratic side a new poll shows sanders with a 16 point lead over hillary clinton. the two were essentially tied in a poll a month ago -- this poll. a new fox news poll shows sanders with an even bigger lead. in this poll he leads clinton by 22 points. among granite state democrats. >> mika, that's why iowa is so important to hillary clinton. if hillary loses iowa, the slingshot effect into new hampshire will be devastating. >> in iowa a new fox news poll shows sanders within range of clinton. nationally in our nbc news survey monkey tracking poll shows clinton with a 14 point lead over sanders. a new cnn orc poll shows clinton with an identical 14 point lead. bernie sanders turned to a

staple of his stump speech that millions of people in america don't get enough to survive on social security. he asked people for their stories of the struggles of living off of about $10,000 a year, including this one. >> i have been living on probably less than that for a long time because of disabilities. and it's so hard to do anything to pay -- pay your bills. you're ashamed all the time. and can completely understand how she feels. and when you can't buy presents for your children, it's -- it's really, really, really hard. and i worked. i worked three, four, five jobs sometimes, always minimum wage. i have a degree. divorced and it's just -- i'm

waiting for disability to come thr through, so my parents have to support me. it is just hard. >> it is not easy for people to stand up and say that. but the truth is that, until millions of people who are experiencing exactly what you guys are experiencing do say that, we don't make change. >> so the question -- and when you listen to that woman speak, is you wonder who is going to be there for her? hillary clinton or bernie sanders. what's the answer to that question? around the table. >> bill clinton would have knocked it out of the ballpark. >> who would actually, with policy and fighting in washington and actual execution, who would be there for her? >> i think that's the question -- i think that's the question. the democratic voters will have to figure that out. here is a new spot from the sanders campaign set to begin airing in iowa today.

>> there are those who say we cannot defeat a corrupt political system and fix a rigged economy. but i believe we need to lift our vision above the obstacles in place and look to the american horizon. to a nation where every child cannot only dream of going to college but attend one. where quality health care will be a birth right of every citizen, where a good job is not a wish but a reality. where women receive equal pay and a living wage is paid to all. an america where, after a lifetime of labor, there is time for rest and grandchildren. a nation that defends our people and our values. but no longer carries so much of that burden alone. i know we can create that america if we listen to our hearts and that journey begins here in iowa. >> boy, he has got a great story, but i don't know who does those ads. but they're fantastic. >> yes. all these candidates, of course, are making their closing

arguments here. the clinton campaign also releasing a new ad in iowa. check out her ad. >> one of the areas that i have been particularly interested in is the area of children. all of us have a responsibility to ourselves, to yourour childr to each other. we intend to be sure that everybody in this room and every child in this state is somebody. no matter where they're born, no matter to whom they are born. our children's future is shaped both by the values of their parents and the policies of their nation. it's time to protect the next generation. fill the lives of our children with possibility and hope. open up the doors so that every child has a chance to live up to his or her god-given potential. i have spent my life fighting for children, families and our country, and i am not stopping now. >> so that goes to your question, mika, which of the

candidates do you think would stand up for that woman. i think they both have a good case to make. both hillary clinton and bernie sanders. hillary clinton's ad here goes to the question lots of people have asked and vice president joe biden has alluded to. joe biden has been living these issues his entire life and joe biden is relatively new to them. she says i have been advocating for people and women who don't make enough money in this country my entire life as well. >> i think you mean bernie sanders, willie, has been living these issues my entire life. i'm a little confused by the question. >> joe biden was the one who said hillary was relatively new to these issues. >> right. >> sorry. yeah, yeah. sorry about that. i didn't quite follow. they both have a history. they are both progressives with long history. her starting with the children's defense fund and moving through her whole life. bernie sanders. they've been committed to progressive ideals and policies for a long time. it seems to me like the argument

hi here is boiling down to an argument, at least how the clinton campaign is framing it. the clinton campaign is saying we both share the same values but let's be real and think about pragmatism. who can get these things done. i am more likely to get these things done for you. the sanders campaign is saying pragmatism and realism amounts to compromise and incrementalism. we make compromises all the time. let's dream big and anything is possible and let's not be these compromising, incremental policies and politics that the clintons are famous for. i don't know which way iowa voters will go. but that notion of dreaming big versus kind of trying to get real is what the argument is about in these final days here in iowa. >> mike, no doubt you look at bernie's campaign, you look at his events, you listen to his words, sweeping rhetoric.

you look at his commercials. and it seems that he has the momentum on his side. he is dreaming big. he has the optics on his side. and yet i want to follow up on what mika said before. you look behind him and a lot of times you look out in the crowd. there's so many young voters there. which we in the media all look as a positive until you look at all the young voters that were behind howard dean. i wonder, are we going to see a replay of 2004 where all of that young, energetic support doesn't show up caucus night. >> we're going to find out. that will be the question both in iowa and new hampshire for sanders and, to some extent, for donald trump. are his people going to come out and vote. i like to go back and reflect just a moment on the woman who spoke to bernie sanders. because she represents something about iowa and new hampshire and america that we very rarely see. the one-on-one, the person

confronted by the reality of life on the margin. and there are millions of people in this country for whom a large part of life is like staring at a showroom window. and your book and bernie sanders' rhetoric, oddly enough, there is a combination there, because one of the underlying issues in this campaign, if you're out there, if you're talking to people, is the absolute paralysis in their minds of the federal government. >> her story. she says she works several jobs, she makes minimum wage. she has a degree, and she can't live. and she is ashamed all the time. >> the frustration and anger out there on the left and on the right are interestingly parallel. and that could have -- you could see -- i mean beings what's driving the donald trump phenomenon, and even the ted cruz phenomenon to a certain example, isn't that dissimilar from what's driving the bernie sanders phenomenon. people who feel displaced, whether you want to blame

immigration or whether you want to blame corporations, globalization, whatever. >> right. all right. >> so her story, if you continue, it's similar to the woman that bernie sanders married years ago who worked as a bank teller and a cashier and raised three children, poor. they understand this. they've lived this. they understand it from the bottom up. and that's a big difference. and i think it means something to people at this point. >> let's get to other headlines. global stocks threatening to drag down wall street today. oil prices dipped below $30 a barrel. u.s. stock futures are also lower. last check dow futures down around 14 points. the president of iran is in europe this week working to revive trade and political ties after sanctions against iran were recently lifted. president rouhani landed in rome yesterday. several companies reportedly signed bills valued at more than

$18 billion last night. the "wall street journal" reporting that the white house could be looking to strengthen ties with iran by asking for help with three missing americans believed to have been kidnapped in iraq by iraqi shiite militias with close ties to tehran. on capitol hill the supreme court ruled inmates sentenced to life without the possibility of parole as a juvenile can challenge those punishments. the ruling opens the door to the possibility of parole for thousands of inmates in the nation's prisons. the development comes as president obama moved to end solitary confinement for juveniles in federal prisons. and finally, a texas grand jury has cleared planned parenthood of any wrong-doing following an investigation into undercover videos taken inside a clinic. instead, two anti-abortion activists now have been indicted. the group, center for medical progress, claimed their video showed planned parenthood was illegally selling fetal tissue

to researchers for a profit. the two activists who have been indicted each face a felony charge of tampering with a government record carrying a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison. still ahead on "morning joe" the republican frontrunner for president donald trump joins the conversation. also ahead, new york city mayor bill de blasio talks politics and his job as a snow remover in chief. former defense secretary donald rumsfeld will be here on set. later, we'll be talking with the south carolina lawmaker who dropped hillary clinton to back bernie sanders instead. next monday and tuesday "morning joe" will be at java joe's in des moines for complete coverage of the iowa caucuses. it is going to be exciting! and boy, do they matter this year. as much as any year i remember. if you're close by, stop in for some coffee and the live show. first. let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast.

more snow coming our way? >> we've been watching it closely. first the amazing image yesterday from nasa. this is washington, d.c. here is the frozen pa tomack river. there is pennsylvania avenue. pretty cool. problems this morning. snow for your green bay, milwaukee, overnight. freezing rain moving across upstate new york and pennsylvania. those are the travel trouble spots. further south. heavy rain this morning in louisiana and mississippi. moving into areas like new orleans and mobile later today. let me take you through the southern portion of the storm. yesterday we were thinking it had a chance to hook and move up the coast. heavy rain throughout your tuesday. this is a lot of moisture coming out of the gulf. florida will get soaked on wednesday. then the storm forms. then it will push off the southeast coast. unlike the last one, it does not get captured by what we call the northern jet stream and pushed northwards. this one will escape out to sea.

we're happy to report no snow in the forecast for the mid-atlantic or new england through thursday and friday. the weekend looks clear too. today boston 49. let the snow melt begin. we'll take a couple of chunks of inches away each day. living you with a shot of washington, d.c. 45 degrees this afternoon. the roads will be clearing up. more "morning joe" when we return. be good. text mom. boys have been really good today. send. let's get mark his own cell phone. nice. send. brad could use a new bike. send. [siri:] message. you decide. they're your kids. why are you guys texting grandma?

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my new battle is with a gentleman named ted cruz. because, gotta speak the truth. you've got to speak the truth. the canadian, the man from canada. thank you. that was very helpfulment i don't know. that's so funny. he could run right now for prime minister of canada. he would have no problem. >> oh, now, come on. that is too rich. >> it is. >> the canadian, mike. >> i like the way he does the pipeline. twins the pipeline with ted cruz, support of the pipeline. >> it's great the way he needles

it. it's almost like a comedic thing. of course ted cruz is for the pipeline. it helps canada. still ahead. robert draper. the mayor of new york city, bill deblahs de blasio standing. that plus the must-read opinion pages. >> we'll talk about matt lewis' "too dumb to fail." social promotion for me, willie. this was the story of my life in high school. >> it's not an autobiography.

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su . today roughly half of born-again christians aren't voting. they're staying home. imagine instead millions of people of faith all across america coming out to the polls and voting our values. >> that was ted cruz during his presidential announcement speech back in march. joining us now, author and writer for the "new york times" magazine robert draper. he is the author of the feature "higher math" which looks at

cruz's strategy to win the white house depends on turning out millions of new evangelical voters. he writes what unites the evangelical bloc with the rest of the republican base is a shared hostility toward not only those they see as antagonists to the american way of life. isis, undocumented immigrants. apostles of political correctness but also their perceived apiecers in washington. it's for this reason that many conservative christians find themselves drawn to donald trump. this is also why it's not enough for ted cruz to brandish his evangelical credentials in order to win iowa and beyond. he must remind republicans that his biography is that of a proud foe of the political establishment. biography that trump is undermining from the get-go. >> robert, we just read a segment that basically we were talking about 20 minutes ago. it's just not enough to go around and wave a bible.

evangelicals have been since jerry falwell in 1980 have begin promised things they don't feel they've gotten. so there is a rising bitterness that helps trump, isn't there? >> there is. what senator cruz and his campaign are arguing stands on its heald the conventional wisdom. that held that for republicans to win the white house back they've got to broaden their base and broaden their appeal to latino voters, to young voters. the cruz campaign is saying no, we don't need to do that. there are plenty of conservatives out there, we just need to get them to the polls. those are evangelical voters, millions of whom have stayed home. if we target them, not only what we do well in the nomination process given that 11 of the first 23 primary states have a core constituency of over 50% evangelical but beyond that, if we continue to hone that message in the general election we can inspire people to come out to

the polls in ways that we haven't seen since ronald reagan in 1980. >> i'm skeptical of that. are you skeptical of that? >> yes. >> because you know, you go back again to 1980. starting in 1980. republicans promised a constitutional amendment to ban abortion nationwide. they promised to fight for, quote, traditional marriage. they promised to fight -- you name it, the fights that they were going to fight in washington, d.c., they haven't fought. in fact. it's the democrats, it's the left, that have made sweeping gains on just about every social issue that republicans have been talking about for 40 years, the evangelicals. >> there is reason to be skeptical on multiple counts. for one thing the people reagan brought into the republican comment, a lot of disaffected democrats in the south, they're already republicans. so cruz will have to expand on that. to presuppose that he will inspire people the way the gypper did, also, it's a little bit dubious. the notion that all of these evangelicals have stayed home in

the last ten years or so is also dubious. matt dowd has said probably two million rather than ten million people came to the polls in 2004. romney duplicated bush's totals. as for unregistered voters, they're unregistered for a reason. they're completely checked out of the process. hillary clinton will be trying to get unregistered voters too. it's very, very difficult to do that. simply giving an appealing slate of issues is not necessarily going to get you there. >> hey, robert, willie geist. good to see you. how frustrated must ted cruz be watching donald trump wins the evangelicals that clearly should be in his wheelhouse. it must have irked him to watch the speech he made at liberty university last week and say my gosh, i can't believe you're

going for him over me. >> he's been doing all the things right. scripture memorized to a t. this guy donald trump stands in front of the same crowd he did a couple of years ago and utterly botches scripture. does not seem altogether sincere in the promulgation of christian values, yet they loved him anyway. reporters after were quoting people in the audience to said, you know what, at least he tried. ted cruz has done more than tried. he's gone completely by the script ural playbook isn't it doesn't seem to be helping him in iowa. >> i saw you following john kasich in new hampshire two, three months ago. are you surprised by kasich's ju jump? or is it something you saw him planting the seeds months ago? >> i am a bit surprised. i do think you have to give kasich credit where it's due. he stuck by his message. not for a second has he pretended to be a yeller, a grievance politician.

i think it's paying off for him because new hampshire voters are seeing someone who has given a steady message, is a clear alternative to donald trump and ted cruz in a way that marco rubio and some of the other so-called establishment lane politicians have not. i think, more than anything else his consistency has paid off for him. >> robert draper, thank you very much. we'll be looking for your piece in this sunday's "new york times" magazine. it's terrific. matt lewis, let's turn to your book. it's not about joe. tell everyone. >> i thought it was. it looks like me. fits me. "too dumb to fail," reminds me of the wallace in 2012, i don't care if we're the conservative party, the moderate party, i'm just tired of being the dumb party. >> yes. >> everybody went crazy and what nicolle said and what i was saying during that campaign everybody said the day after romney lost. >> the old line is that the republican party is the stupid party. the democratic party is the evil party.

i think there is some truth to that. but you know, the "too dumb to fail," they say good book titles are -- you sort of think you know what they mean but you don't exactly. and "too dumb to fail," it's essentially -- if you're a pundit or if you're a politician right now running in a primary especially, if you say something stupid or fringy, you will go up in the polls. so what we have, it's sort of like the too big to fail phenomenon. you have the moral hazards and perverse incentives. but collectively the conservative movement suffers. back to what draper was talking about. you have cruz and trump both making similar argumes. ted cruz thinks there are phantom evangelicals who are staying home and not going to the polls. donald trump wants you to believe that there are all these working class white reagan democrats who will turn out and vote for republicans. maybe they will this time. but if conservatives go that route, in the face of all the

demographic changes, if we double down on working class white old rural voters solely -- i don't think we should write them off but you can't win an election -- >> i want to talk about the perverse incentives. if you're in a jerry mandired district you get no credit for trying to make something happen. you get credit for standing on the side and screaming. these people are doing what they need to do to get reelected. >> it's smart. >> if you are on talk radio, forget nuance. you' get more listeners by going as far out to the right as humanly possible and say stupid, stupid things that would get republican candidates defeated but makes you millions of dollars. if you are on cable news primetime, the further right you go, the stupider you are, the harsher you are, the more people -- you're going to get a fringe. but you are going to get a fringe, but you're going to make

millions and millions and millions of dollars. the saying holds true for the very, very, very stupid people on the left that have been doing it for years. >> right. >> those are the perverse incentives. >> it's a smart business decision. when ann coulter talks about rag heads or when rush limbaugh calls sandra fluker shut, guess who suffers. there are no adults left to call them out on it. i think rush limbaugh was the one guy who had the moral authority on the right and the juice that he could have called out trump for some of his things early on. i think he abdicated that responsibility. >> why didn't he? >> i think he abdicated that responsibility. he was the only guy. because now -- in the old days -- >> explain why. >> i think he is not that interested in policing the right. i think he wants ratings and i think he was -- >> money. >> these talk radio hosts secretly thought that ted cruz would benefit.

they really like ted cruz. and i think trump was sort of a stalking horse the whole time. that's part of it. >> don't you think, though, the genie is out of the bottle on this, that people see the impact of saying outrageous thing helps them. even if it's in the short term? how do you pull that genie back? how do you say, you know, it's worth it, valuable and good for the country to be more moderate? >> i'm not advocating being more moderate or centrist. i want to make it clear. that's what's different about this book, right. a lot of people have written books about the conservative movement and how to fix the republican party are liberals. their recipe is make the gop liberal. >> compromise. i'm not talking about a mushy middle. what i'm talking about be conservative, be a buckley conservative, a russell kirk. i mean, be conservative. >> right. >> but also, be willing to talk to the other side. >> absolutely. >> so the book is "too dumb to

fail." matt lewis. congratulations. >> thank you very much. still ahead, donald trump joins us at the top of the hour. next hour. still ahead this hour, bill de blasio helps new york dig out from a massive blizzard. the mayor joins us on the set to talk about that and the political storm underway in iowa. "morning joe" back in a moment. melda. i'm john. hello, nice to meet you. we invited you here today to get your honest opinion about this new car. to keep things unbiased, we removed all the badging and logos. so, what do you think it is? i would say lexus. maybe acura. feels like a bmw. let's look at the interior. reminds me of the inside of my friend's lexus. so, this car supports apple carplay™ siri, open maps. nice. wow. she gets me. someone really took their time laying this out. yeah. this car also has teen driver technology. it even mutes the radio until the seatbelts are buckled. wow. my husband could use that. i'm very curious what it is. what price range would you put this car in? fifty to sixty-five. the eighty-thousand dollar bracket.

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i've been living on probably less than that for a long time because of disabilities. and it's so hard to do anything to pay your bills, you're ashamed all the time. and i could completely understand how she feels. when you can't buy presents for

your children it's really, really, really hard. >> that was an emotional moment we played for you earlier today from a bernie sanders event in iowa where he asked the audience for their stories about the struggle of living off about $10,000 a year. with us now we have the democratic mayor of new york city, bill de blasio. mr. mayor, great to have you here. >> thank you, joe. >> real talk about the weather situation and how new york did in a moment. i want to talk about that moment. earlier in the show, just to be transparent. during the break you all said, mika, calm down. obviously hillary clinton has worked all of her life tirelessly to help people. i think what i felt when i listened to that sound bite and the question i would have for someone like you who supports hillary clinton is explain to me how that woman who struggles to get by on $10,000 a year can relate to a candidate who maybe has made $600,000 in one year

from speeches at goldman sachs and knew she was going to be running for president, who pushed her husband to veto a bankruptcy bill and voted for it as senator. how does that woman relate when she is struggling just to get by every day when she has a degree? >> how does hillary relate to her. >> last night you saw hillary talk at the town hall about the fight for health insurance reform and taking on the big insurance companies. i remember that vividly. maybe some people who are younger don't remember just how dramatic that struggle was. she had the entire american insurance industry against her personally. millions and millions of dollars -- >> back in '93 and '94. >> i remember. >> that was to fight for tens of millions of people who didn't have health insurance. i think when the clinton administration put family and medical leave into place, which was unheard of previously to actually acknowledge what working families were going through, the work hillary did with the children's defense fund on behalf of mothers and children who didn't have the kind of support they deserve. this has been her whole life.

>> has she changed? >> i don't think she has changed. last night i think she articulated that with real passion. the history is clear. we've all seen it for decades. that struggling woman we just saw a moment ago needs someone in the white house who knows how to take on powerful people. >> why do you think bernie sanders is connecting more with people in need? >> the polls are very close. the national polls are more favorable to hillary. she has a lifetime of working on working people's issues. when she walks in the door january 20th next year it will be the most progressive platform to ever walk in the door. >> is she connecting the way she should given her history? >> i think she has talked more about that history more passionately and i think it's coming across. >> why is she not connecting. >> i guess the question was how

can that woman relate to hillary clinton, especially in light of even the money that she raised for big banks in the year before she decided to run for president knowing that she was going to run for president? how can that woman relate to her? >> that woman wants someone who will fix the problem. let's be clear about the point relating. i understand what you're trying to say. that woman needs a woman who will fix the problem. that woman needs a president who will go into office, raise minimum wage, raise benefits for working families. paid family leave. paid sick leave. and bluntly, tax the wealthy more. hillary clinton's platform says that. she knows how to do that and she has devoted her life to those kinds of struggles including when it took on powerful interests. i think the fact is hillary has got both the vision and the hitter more and more people i believe will see that. >> so what you're saying, in essence, is that this is a fight bernie sanders versus hillary clinton between the head and the heart, that bernie sanders is the heart, the emotion, hillary

clinton is saying, he's got the emotion, i can do it. i can get it done. >> i think it's even more than that. the question is, for someone struggling in this country, that's tens of millions of people trying to make ends meet, people who used to think they were middle class and have seen their earning power decline. they need someone who can fix the problem. the american people are very practical. they see a system that's absolutely unequal. they see more and more wealth and power concentrated at the top. they need that change fundamentally. they need someone who actually knows how to achieve the change. you saw last night hillary clearly not only seemed presidential. the breadth of the experience and understanding was presidential. >> has the definition of the middle class changed in your mind over the last ten, 15 years? >> no question that for people who thought they were solidly thought they were middle class 15, 20 years ago they feel economically insecure. most simple measure of the american dream, that your children will do better than you, we all know many people who

now fear their children will in fact do worse than them. that has to change and it has to change starting in the white house. i bluntly believe hillary is the only person who will know how to create that change practically speaking. >> i've heard this a few times, she can fix the problem. what -- i think bernie sanders has the same, why can't he fix the problem? >> i have a lot of respect for bernie. >> i don't understand what makes her differentiates her from him. >> bernie has done a service to this nation by raising these issues very powerfully. hillary clinton has done a service to the nation for decades at the highest level achieving some of the things we care about. the health insurance fight set the stage for what president obama was able to achieve. family and medical leave changed the entire concept. the fact that we're doing paid parental leave in new york city is directly related to the fact that bill and hillary clinton did family medical leave while they were in office. one act of progress breeds the next.

the fact that she understands how to work with the congress. the fact that she understands how to actually get things done in the executive branch. she has lived it. means she is the best suited to hit the ground running, address income inequality and make the practical changes that working and middle class americans need. >> don't you feel like, as you look at the issues, as a pure progressive, you line up better with bernie sanders than you do with hillary clinton? i mean, you have been held up as a model of progressivism. >> thank you, sir. >> on the municipal level and bernie sanders on the national level. >> you can say yes to this answer because we all know it's true. >> bernie, i give him a lot of credit for the things he's raised and the way he's raised him. hillary clinton's vision, her platform, is exactly what i want to see in the white house. she'll know how to get it done. that's what we need. i care deeply about the debate, but i care more about the results for working people. >> so let's talk about what happened over the last few days here in new york city. i think, by most measures, there are some areas of the city and

queens in particular who have been frustrated by the snow cleanup. but compared to what we've seen in past years, not just under you but under mayor bloomberg as well, feels like the city did a pretty darn good job. a lot of people are out working. what did you learn from 2014 that made it better this time? >> get out there early, put a lot of personnel out, a lot of plows out, salt spreaders out. get in position early, expect the worst and expect it to come earlier than it was projected to. guess what happened? it came earlier. friday we were hearing -- i think the national weather service did a great job. it was a fast-moving storm. friday, 8 to 12 inches. when the smoke cleared, 27 inches of snow in central park. 30.5 inches at jfk airport. >> and he showed up to put salt on your driveway! i just can't believe that, bill de blasio. >> it was fantastic. >> so sweet. >> that personal service. >> new york city mayor bill de blasio. >> i was going to say it's a shame he has a job already.

he would be the best spokesperson hillary clinton could ever have. bill de blasio thank you for being with us. great job on the snow. up next, donald trump joins us live. stay with us. right now... ♪ ♪ me and the boys are playing.♪. ♪ ... all nig♪t text beth, what can i do... [siri:] message. pick up milk. oh, right. milk. introducing the newly redesigned passat. from volkswagen. i'i like to think of myself as more of a control... enthusiast.

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these are the hands of pitney bowes, the craftsmen of commerce. they'll say, you know, i'm undecided. i am trying to make up my mind. i can't decide. and sometimes i'm for you, sometimes i'm for senator sanders. then i'm for you. and i -- i feel like a lot of the -- a lot of the voters are like in the pinball machine getting knocked around, going back and forth. but isn't our debate so much better than what the republicans are serving up to the people of

iowa? he said, you know, i don't know. it's kind of like my head versus my heart. i said, well, you can have it both. what i have done my entire life, what you saw on that video, was to do everything that i could to help people who were really up against it, people who deserved somebody to be in their corner to fight for them. to speak for them. and when i hear what i hear as i travel around this state, it touches my heart. yeah. you need to lead with both your heart and your head. it's not either/or. you have to take what you hear from people, what they're telling you, what they're sharing with you, the heartache they're feeling, and then you've got to roll up your sleeves and get to work to do everything you can to help solve the problems that are keeping americans up at night. >> that's hillary clinton yesterday on the campaign trail in iowa. mike barnicle, that's really about as good as i have seen --

>> as she's been. >> -- the entire campaign. that was hillary clinton mid-season form, post new hampshire in 2008. looked good! >> she was also asked a question about her faith. and she was truly eloquent in her answer. i don't have the transcript of what she said, but she was truly eloquent. she had a good day yesterday, both in that clip there and last night at the town hall forum. she was pretty good there too. >> it was the closing argument. it was one on one the whole time. bernie got up for a half hour or so. martin o'malley had his turn and then hillary clinton did. they took questions from the audience. i think the democrats have a big choice between two good candidates. hillary clinton may have advantages in the way the system is set up. a lot of his support may be concentrated in university towns with young people. she probably still has a little edge. big choice for them on monday. >> and they were performing --

all performing at the top of their game. >> it's exciting. mike barnicle with us along with the manager editor of bloomberg politics john heilemann. a new national poll this morning has donald trump at a new high. the cnn/orc poll finds 4 in 10 republican voters now backing trump. he more that be doubles the support of ted cruz at 19%. no other candidate in double digits. marco rubio 8, ben carson 6. jeb at 5. >> john heilemann, i am sorry. suddenly the establishment lane, it just looks like an off-ramp to loserville. you have trump and cruz and everybody else in single digits. trump now at 41%. it's not like he's at 21% and some undecideds can break. i know it's just a national poll, but we're seeing this more and more.

heilmann? >> yes. i mean, look, the national polls have been like this for a long time, joe, as you know. it's striking that they're not only holding in that form but trump is gaining strength. the establishment candidates are not moving at all on the national level. there is a little bit of variance on that on the state polls. obviously in new hampshire what we're seeing john kasich moving up in new hampshire. marco rubio still doing pretty well here and seeming to kind of get a pretty good bead on being the third place finisher in iowa. no doubt that in the establishment lane you're starting to hear a lot of concern about the fact that the circular firing squad dynamic with those four candidates. rubio, kasich, bush, christie, all attacking each other and spending a huge amount of money to try to take each other out is making it impossible for any of them to rise and leaving the field wide open for trump and to a lesser extent, cruz. >> the nbc news survey monkey weekly online tracking poll also has trump increasing his lead

over cruz at 39%, up 22 points as ted cruz falls four points. marco rubio is at 10, and ben carson is at 8. trump's national lead that's also growing among white evangelical voters. trump is up 5 points to 37% as cruz drops 9 points to 20%. carson at 11. rubio at 10. >> mika, that's a plus 14 swing for trump over cruz. just in the past few weeks among white evangelicals. >> to new hampshire, a third poll in as many days shows trump doubling his nearest opponent. he is up 7 points since december to 33%. 19 points ahead of ted cruz at 14%. governor john kasich, who yesterday picked up the endorsement of "the boston globe," jumped four points to third with 12%. >> it's really -- there are -- willie, there are three things to pick up. willie and mike. trump's total dominance as we go down the home stretch. john kasich's surge.

actually make an establishment win matter there. then marco rubio dropping into fifth place, minus four. yet another poll where marco is down four points. >> it's interesting. you look at the trends obviously, but if you look at margin of error, the cluster below donald trump -- let's be clear, it is donald trump and everybody else in the poll right there in new hampshire and that state and other states. it could be five or six people. you might be surprised by a couple of them. chris christie could come out of there. john kasich obviously. jeb bush could come out of there. ted cruz, marco could come out of there. that person will have a good case to make rolling down to south carolina and nevada. >> any one of them could end up in second place or sixth. >> the numbers on the white evangelical poll, could we put those numbers up again. they prove once again and bill goldman's old adage about hollywood, nobody knows nothing. donald trump at 41% beating ted

cruz by 12 or 13 points among white evangelicals. >> it's a 14-point swing when ted cruz's entire campaign has been focused, as robert draper said, totally focused on white evangelical voters. 58% of all voters say they've made up their minds, but 76% of trump's voters say their choice is firm. >> this is so interesting. at 55%, more than half of the state's republican voters say trump is most likely to be the 2016 nominee. 11% say cruz. the poll also finds trump now has the highest favorability rating of any top candidate in new hampshire at 58%. >> john heilemann, look at this, look at this. we were all talking back in the summer, donald trump favorabilities in the teens, everybody said there is no way he could win because his unfavorable/favorables were upside down massively. now, in this new hampshire poll, he is at the top. >> one of the more startling

things we've seen in polling in the entire cycle has been the way in which donald trump over the course of months methodically turned around his favorable/unfavorable rating and the numbers about the number of republican voters who at the outset who said they'd never consider supporting trump, he's turned those numbers around. se broadly acceptable to the party now. not to the party establishment which still continues to fear and loathe him. but mooniamong of republican vo who said they would never vote for trump. now he is by far the most popular candidate broadly speaking in the field. it's a testament to the strength he has shown on the campaign trail and the weakness of his rivals. >> i have to say, mika, the most ridiculous article i have read all week was the "new york times" article that said what about the, i don't know, 65% of republicans who hate trump in new hampshire. it was -- it was just a farce. here you have trump with the highest favorability rating. they just -- they subtracted the number of people saying they

were supporting trump and made an entire story, again, just really made it up, when you look at these polls, he has higher favorabilities than anybody else. >> look at the new quinnipiac poll out of iowa. it has donald trump at 31% and senator ted cruz at 29% among likely republican caucus participants. that's kind of interesting. >> yeah. >> senator marco rubio of florida is at 13%. no other candidate is above 7%. and joining us now, republican presidential candidate donald trump. donald, good to have you back on the show. how are you doing? >> good morning. i am doing fine. >> you love polls. we just threw a lot of poll numbers. >> the iowa one shows it's close. what's your closing argument in the last six days for the people of iowa? why should they vote for you? why do you want to be relationship. >> i've had a great relationship

with the people of iowa. i am doing really well with evangelicals. i met with a large group of ministers and pastors yesterday and i am getting tremendous support. >> why is that, donald? because you're not a dyed in the wool evangelical? >> i'm a religious person. i have been going to sunday school for a long time like you did, joe. you know, i am a religious person. and frankly, you know, i am a believer. and they understand that. you know, some of the polls came out. it was interesting. cnn said i would be the best leader, the best with isis, best on the border and best on a lot of other things. the evangelicals want that too. they want a combination of things but they want that very badly. i am not surprised that i'm doing so well with evangelicals. i know nationwide i'm way up with evangelicals. so that's very good. >> why are ted cruz's numbers slipping? is it because of your charge that he is from canada and may not be able to be president if he is elected? >> he does have a problem there. no question about it.

nobody knows if he can even run. he has to solve that problem. get a declaratory judgment from the courts. he could be running and end up thrown out of the race in the middle of it. you know the democrats will sue. the first day, if he got the nomination lawsuit day one which will take years to resolve. it will be a big problem. >> i was going to ask you, donald, if you really believed that. then you followed up with what is the truth. the second he got the nomination the democrats would go to court. >> ted cruz is not slipping in every poll. the latest one out of iowa, there are just a few points between you two. >> i assume it's close in iowa. that's the one place where it's close. it could very well be close. i think we're going to do great in iowa. you never know. iowa is the one place that's close. every other state i'm leading by a lot. i just left new hampshire last night. it's unbelievable the lead up there. i hit 40 or 42 points up there. i think the only place where we

could be close is iowa. i saw polls yesterday where we have a very big lead. but i think ted is a nasty guy. people don't like him, at all. he has all of these republican senators, he doesn't have support of one of them. he gets a whacko like glenn beck who is always -- every time i see him, he is crying, like so emotional. what a mess! he gets a whack job like glenn beck to support him, which is, i think, a negative, not a positive. i think ted has some problems. he doesn't tell the truth. >> hey, dornnald, willie, speakg of ted cruz he has new ads aimed directly at you. let's take a listen. >> i mean, hey, i lived in new york city in manhattan all my life, okay. so my views are a little bit different than if i lived in iowa. >> they are different. like on abortion. >> would president trump ban partial birth abortion? >> i am pro choice in every

respect. >> what does trump think about iowa? >> how stupid are the people of iowa. >> donald trump. new york values. not ours. >> donald, what's your reaction to that ad, particularly the first part? >> i'll give you an example. first of all, i am pro-life. going into a second thing about how stupid are the people of iowa. then i said, how stupid are the people of the united states. and i was talking about because everybody in this country was believing i'm not going to mention his name but it was a certain candidate -- >> it was ben carson's tales of hammers to his mother's head. >> i said united states. he didn't put "united states." because ted cruz lies. he is a liar. that's why nobody likes him. that's why the senate people won't endorse him. he stands on the middle of the senate floor and can't make a deal with anybody. he's a jerk. standing all by himself. there is something to be said about having the ability to get other people to do things.

you can't be a lone wolf. that's sort of what we have right now as a president. we have a president that can't get anything done so he just keeps signing executive orders all over the place. >> did you just make a parallel between ted cruz and president obama? >> they're the same. i think ted is more strident than obama. nobody gets along with ted. some people get along with obama. nobody likes ted. i talk to senators who frankly want to come out and endorse me. it's amazing what's happened over the last two weeks. i told this to joe, mika. every the last two weeks, so many people are calling saying, we want to get involved with you. we want to endorse you. we have a powerful endorsement coming down today. >> who is that? >> what? >> who is it going to be? >> you'll find out a little bit later. we have a powerful endorsement coming down today but so many people want to endorse us because they say ted cruz is whacky. something missing there. i don't know. there is something wrong. you know, it's wonderful to be a rebel, but you've got to get

some people on your side a little bit. here is a guy with all of the republican senators sitting out there. he deals with them every day when he's there. he deals with them every day. and he doesn't have one senator supporting him, not one republican senator supporting him. that's pretty sad. >> donald, when did your feelings about ted cruz change? for a large part of this campaign he was the one guy you said he is a friend of mine as you went after the other ones. >> he was a friend of mine and i kept saying when is he going to come at me because i know people. i became rich understanding people. i said when is he going to come at me. when i say friend of mine, everything i said, it was okay. i could say anything and he said, oh, it's okay, it's okay. very few of the others were doing that. although many of them were very, very respectful and nice to me. i like a lot of the guys i'm running with. i'll make a much better president but these a minor details. with ted cruz i'll tell you, very interesting, i kept saying

when is he going to come. then he came at the debate when he talked about new york values and he talked about this and that, and he really came at me very strong in the debate. i said to him in the debate at one point, ah, here we go. okay, good, because i said when are you going to come at me, ted and he final did. according to everybody i won the last debate which is always very nice. >> mike barnicle. >> donald, one of your friends, maybe a former friend right now, i don't know, michael bloomberg, mayor of new york, former mayor of new york, a man just as wealthy as you thinking of running for the president of the united states. talk about him. give us your relationship with him and what you think his chances would be if he jumped in. >> he used to be a friend of mine. i haven't spoken to him in a long time. i did a good job for him because he had a project in the bronx that was a disaster called ferry point. it was under construction for years and years. it was sucking up money from the city. they were in there for like $300 million. it was under construction for

25 years or more. they don't even know when it began. he asked me to take it over. i went through the process and i tack it ov took it over and got it done in less than a year and did a great job on it. i really helped him. in fact, i made a promise to him. i said i'll get it done before the end of your administration. it was the last year of his administration. we actually had a ground-breaking in october and he left in january. i did a good job. now, i don't think he is a friend of mine anymore based on what i am hearing when i hear he wants to run because trump is running. i don't know. and i will tell you -- i'm not talking about john and, ma. other than john and mark, i get treated so badly by bloomberg, the things they say are unbelievable. the worst of about anybody. they treat me so knowingly badly that i would assume he's going to run. i mean, i hope he runs. look, i like michael. i have always liked michael. i don't think we have any relationship -- the relationship

i think is probably gone, which is just fine with me, but i hope he runs because i love the competition. and i think it would be a very different dialogue for the debates. i really think it would be very interesting if he runs. i hope -- i hope that michael runs. he won't win, but i hope he runs. >> and we have, speaking of john heilemann, we have john with us, he has a question for you. >> hi, john. >> hey, donald. >> do you notice i took you out of that group at mark? you know. >> very nice of you. i appreciate that. >> he gave me an "a" in the last debate, so i had to take him out. >> i appreciate that. i will stand up for my colleagues at bloomberg. we always treat you fairly. tough but fair is the way bloomberg politics treats you in every instance. >> you and mark are fine. >> i'll stand up for my colleagues until the end of time. >> until of the dance. we have to delay.

john heilemann, ask the question, go. >> let me ask you this question, mr. trump. on substance, not on character and personality, but in your head-to-head contest with senator cruz, what are two or three areas where you disagree on substance with ted cruz that are important for voters in iowa and elsewhere to understand? >> i think one of the things is the wall and building the wall. now, he has just come about talking about it, but i want to build a great wall that will keep a lot of problems out. and believe me, you just have to ask israel. walls do work. there is no question about it. on amnesty, you know, he was very, very weak on illegal immigration. now all of a sudden he has become much stronger. this whole thing started with that. it all started with that. i think i will be much better with the military. i think i will be much better with health care and obamacare because i'm going to repeal it and replace it. i think there are other issues. then of course we agree on certain issues. but implementation is important too. i don't think he'll implement. he is a politician.

all talk, no action. and if you look at his record, i don't think he will be an implementer. i don't think he'll get anything through congress because everybody hates him. i mean, you know, the senators, you think you are grid lock now? if he gets elected you'll have grid lock times ten. >> i have two questions for you, donald. we had former defense secretary bob gates on the other day. he talked about how running a business is not like running the presidency. and i just heard you say, former friend ted cruz, former friend michael bloomberg. it seems like you have a lot of former friends. are you going to have friends in congress? are you going to be able to make deals? >> what you don't know and what joe does know, i have been in politics all my life. i have been dealing with politicians all my life. you can rough up politicians and they'll come back to you, you know, when they want something. they're always wanting something. it's called cajoling. you have to get people in the room and get them to sign things. i hate what obama does with gun

legislation. he doesn't talk to anybody. he goes out and signs executive orders. in theory you're supposed to the old fashioned way, get everybody into a room and get something people agree on. you don't just do what he's doing. i get along with politicians. i know how to get politicians. that's what i've done. so much of my business has been political where i had to get approvals from massive developments liken o t on the w side of manhattan. so many of my jobs and so many of my deals have been -- not only in this country, all over the world, i deal with leaders all over the world. so i think i'll be very good with politicians. i deal with politicians for a living. >> i want to underline this point. donald, you got into the construction business, what, in '73? >> about '77, yes. >> who was the mayor in '77? >> beam. >> who was the next mayor you dealt with?

>> denkins. >> long time. i had a piece of lindsey. long time. >> then you dealt with giuliani and then you dealt with bloomberg. >> koch. >> i dealt with koch on the skating rink and many others. >> then you dealt with bill de blasio. >> right. >> so you have everybody from lindsey. just underlining this point. we were like donald doesn't know politics, blah, blah, blah. i'm not carrying your water here. i'm surprised this hasn't been reported. you have become a billionaire many times over in one of the toughest cities to deal with politicians, the corruption, the mob, every law -- every regulation of every stripe. taxes. people don't like working in the city. you've worked with everybody from lindsey to beam to koch,

dinkins, giuliani and bill de blasio and figured out how to get rich in every administration. >> very true. >> i'm not being nice. it's the truth. >> i got along great with david dinkins. he is a nice man. i got my big job approved with him. on the west side. everyone said you'll never get that approved. you'll never be able to do it. tens of thousands of people protesting when i proposed the job because i was going to block everybody's views. it was a massive job. everybody said you'll never get it approved. i got the land inexpensively because everybody said i couldn't get it zoned. i got it zoned for much more than anyone thought possible. >> my point is he didn't get it done in omaha. he go tt it done here. this is the toughest place. i am surprised here we are six months into the campaign and nobody has written this story. >> donald, instinctively, and you are a candidate of instinct,

what is your instinct about who right now on the democratic side of the aisle, who would you be able to deal with to cut any kind of a deal? what's your instinct on that? >> i think i'm going to be able to get along with pelosi. i have always had a great relation ship with nancy pelosi. reid will be gone. i've always had a great relationship with him. he'll use my name as the ultimate in terms of billionaires that you don't want. i always had a great relationship with harry reid. if i weren't running for office i would be able to deal with her or anybody. i think i could get along very well with nancy pelosi and just about everybody. hey, look, i think i'll get along well with chuck schumer. i was close to schumer in many ways. it's important to get along. it's wonderful to say you're a maverick and you're going to stand up and close up the

country, but you have to get somebody to go along with you. you have a lot of people. we have a system. the founders created the system that actually is a very good system. it does work, but it can't work if you can get nobody to go along with you. that's the problem that you have with ted cruz. he is a guy that nobody likes and nobody trusts, and he is a nasty guy. he says things that are very nasty. i have to be nastier than him. it's one of those things. >> do you have a tv? are you watching us right now? >> i am watching you. only because of you. >> wow! >> okay, so -- wow. look at this video. i think i know what you were thinking. i was narrating to some of your friends on the phone. when sarah palin was making her stump speech for you and she kept talking and kept talking and kept talking, what were you thinking about right now? >> well, i was thrilled with her. look, she made a speech. it was a little bit longer.

but you know, she was endorsing me, so i would never want to go off stage. i would be very -- i think it would be terrible to do. it would be very bad for me to do that. i think it would be very disrespectful. sarah called me. she had always supported cruz. she called me and she said your campaign is unbelievable. you're going to win. i love what you're saying, i love the movement and i'd love to endorse you. i said, wow, that's great. one of the reasons i loved it is that i've always loved sarah. really. also, it threw an axe into the machinery for cruz because he expected that endorsement 100% and he was planning on big. she has had a great impact. you look at my poll numbers. i think i've done great in the debates. according to every online poll i've won every debate. but who knows. i've done well in the debates and run a good campaign, but sarah coming in is a very, very -- i love the fact that sarah came in. i had to stand there because i know you and joe mentioned why

wouldn't you have? she was endorsing me? what am i going to do, take the endorsement and lk off the stage? >> no you can't. i know what you were thinking. >> i am a respectful person when i like somebody and i like sarah a lot. she has been great. >> donald trump, thank you for being with us. great talking to you as always. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> i want to underline. the point i was making before about trump. everybody underestimates him. >> clearly. >> they have for six months. >> six months? >> 30 years. he is like reagan. he has fed on the carcasses of political opponents that have underestimated him. they have for years. but for a guy to do what he -- in new york city, which is, you know, the old sinatra line, if i can make it there, i can make it anywhere. it is a truth. everybody from lindsey to beam to koch to dinkins. it doesn't happen by accident

that this guy knows how to quietly work. >> quietly? >> in administrations -- i'm saying behind the scenes to get zoning passed that everybody is against, to get these buildings up. that's -- there is no -- i wonder what other candidate in the race could do that. >> that's a pretty disparate collection of mayors that you have listed there. he's been doing business in the city for a long time. and you have to have a whole lot more going for you in terms of both your knowledge upstairs but your instinct for things to get business done in new york, over that period of time. one of the keys to trump, i think, to understanding trump, is he came across the bridge from queens 35, 40 years ago with a huge chip on his shoulder to do business in manhattan. he still has that chip on his shoulder, and it's working well for him. >> that's why he's winning. still ahead on "morning joe," nbc news' hallie jackson

all join us. >> you think donald trump watches the show for you. >> i know what was going through his head. get her off! on monday and tuesday morning, joe will be at java joe's in des moines for complete coverage of the iowa caucuses. come join us. >> i love des moines. i love java joe's. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. sometimes even a zoologist. every mom is a working mom... and it's working moms everywhere who inspired us to work harder. so we made our banquet meals even better. with mashed potatoes now made with real cream and chicken strips with 100% natural chicken breast. so now, there's more to love with banquet. now serving... a better banquet. theand to help you accelerate,. we've created a new company... one totally focused on what's next for your business.

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let's bring in right now the least popular person in the entire state of iowa, jeff green feld. washington, nbc news political director, moderator of "meet the press" and host of mtp daily and a man who hasn't insulted iowa yet chuck todd. and nbc news correspondent hallie jackson. greenfield if we're in iyowa, don't get near us. you say it's effectively a poll tax. >> i think iowa is a great turnout rates in the general election. great literacy rate. clean politics. the caucuses are a blight on the system and essentially fraudulent. >> why? >> first, what's -- half the media coverage on iowa, right.

everybody is excited. people go there for years. candidates shovel your snow. what happens on caucus night? in 2008 all the talk about obama, thousands of people, turnout rate was 16% of the eligible electorate. contrast new hampshire, 50. why? you have to go out at night on a freezing cold you're a democrat and iowaens are not fooled. >> it's not even a private vote. >> big exercise in democracy, right? call me madcap, joe. a secret ballot -- >> not on the democratic side. >> they have this notion that it's really a caucus. so instead of just counting votes like the republicans do, you gather in parts of the hall, you decide if you have 15%, and then, through a formula that a rocket scientist couldn't explain to you, they create delegate -- state delegate

equivalents. nobody knows how many people voted for obama or clinton. nobody will know in the democratic party. because you have to stay -- that's the other thing. you have to stand up and be counted. if your boss is there, your shop steward. maybe you don't want them to know? >> maybe not. now that you've totally thrown water on the entire caucus. >> i'm sort of not excited to go anymore. >> chuck todd, a new poll out shows it too close to call. most of the polls show trump a little bit ahead of cruz. look at the new hampshire polls and some of the national polls. rubio dropping, again, minus four. as he has in a lot of other ones. kasich getting into second place. and then trump, just light years ahead of everybody. >> yeah, i don't think third place matters anymore if it's going to be that low for third place. >> i agree. >> we're getting to the point where whatever momentum some of these establishment candidates we thought could have at the start of this month, they've all sort of hit a wall of some form

or another. if anything, now you see with rubio fading a bit. look, i think somebody will get another look. it's inevitable that somebody gets another look. you know, it wasn't but two or three weeks ago where we thought there was a real battle for third place and that third place would matter. look, it's a two-person race right now until one of these other candidates forces us to change the conversation. >> it's a two-person -- >> none have. >> it's a two-person race with the guy in first place ahead by 20 points in every state by iowa. at least 20 points. >> on the democratic side, jeff greenfield? new hampshire? >> i still would like to see some evidence that, beyond iowa and new hampshire, when non-white people get to vote, if i can put it bluntly, that sanders will build some strength there. joe trippi, who is a pretty smart democratic operative over the years, points out that after new hampshire and iowa something

like 45 b% of the electorate is black or brown. african-american or hispanic. and i have this crazy notion that maybe it helps more to see what happens once people vote. sanders will have to show down the line, even if he wins new hampshire or iowa, that he has strength in the places where democrats live and work. >> hallie, six days away from iowa now. tell me, what are you hearing on the ground, not only in iowa but also in new hampshire? >> people obviously are paying attention at this point. you have people who are very engaged in the process and they're coming down to the san diegos -- decision making point. i'll tell you what's interesting for me for ted cruz in iowa. that is the continued presence of questions about his support for the renewable fuel standard. ethenol. which is not something that people necessarily outside of iowa might talk about a lot. he gets this question at almost every event he goes to.

>> let's stop for one second there, and i want you to expand on that because everybody looked at the sarah palin endorsement. we really didn't run it on this show. we talked about it for five minutes. we talked about what we thought was the significant event that day. that was the governor coming out saying vote for anybody but ted cruz. i think that and the canada question are the two defining events thus far in iowa. you're saying you're hearing with the governor's ethanol blindside. >> this is a woman who came to a cruz event to be there to listen to ted cruz. she is obviously interested in what he has to say. we were talking to her and said, hey, what's keeping you on the fence? she said, until the governor last week i didn't know where ted cruz stood on ethanol. now i do and it's a concern for me. i need to figure out where he is on this issue because it's a voting issue for her. not every farmer in iowa is

opposed to ted cruz. i spoke to one yesterday. he said he's okay with where ted is on this issue. it's something you're hearing about constantly. sure it doesn't resonate for folks up and down the corridor but it's something people talk about in iowa. >> does it surprise you at all? that's had sidewalk level impact iowa. the governor did that thing last week and boom. >> the iowa economy is in pretty good shape. a lot of people in iowa believe one of the reasons is because of the ethenol industry in general. so it is popular there too. so it doesn't surprise me that this issue can have that kind of resonance. i think the way cruz is -- has handled it has given an opening to opponents. either he's trying to have it both ways, trying to fuzz it up a little bit. either pull the full john mccain, right, where john mccain

said, i'm just not for these things. he said i'm not for them and i'm not going to campaign here. you have to give cruz credit for not being for them and still trying to campaign there. >> i'm only going to give you 15 seconds because you're laughing a mocking laugh, jeff greenfield. we have to go to iowa whether you do or not. go ahead. >> if idaho was the first state we'd be making gasoline out of potatoes. >> you're not going to iowa, are you? >> no. it's a beautiful, wonderful state. the caucus process is awful. >> we'll be at java joe's. thank you all. still ahead. former secretary of defense donald rumsfeld joins us. bernie sanders has faced criticism for struggling to win over african-american voters particularly in the deep south. one state rep has flipped from

hillary clinton to him. it's front-page news, in the first in the south primary state. state representative justin bamberg joins us live straight ahead. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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south carolina, you don't need me to tell you how important you are in this election. you are the first in south. and you know that is a serious responsibility.

and this year you are one of our first lines of defense. you have the power to make sure we choose a nominee who will protect everything we've achieved and stop the republicans from dragging us backwards. >> up next, bernie sanders poaches a hillary clinton supporter in south carolina. we'll ask him what the self-avowed socialist senator needs to do to try to win over more of what's thought to be clinton country. we'll be right back. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business.

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with a dead heat in iowa and bernie sanders up big in new hampshire, the clinton campaign sees south carolina as a fire wall against a surging bernie sanders. joining us from columbia, south carolina, state representative justin bamberg, representative bamberg had been supporting hillary clinton for president,

but just switched his allegiance to senator bernie sanders instead. so, sir, tell us why. >> good morning. and thank you so much for having me. you know, i had to be honest with myself. early on i did not give bernie sanders his fair shake. and by that i mean i didn't take a close enough look at what he had to offer, what his positions were. the more i inform myself, i realize that bernie sanders, i believe, is the man for the job. and i think he will do an amazing job as president. >> representative, we have heard a lot of people say that sanders is not going to be doing as well in south carolina as iowa and new hampshire. do you think that there are just a lot of people in south carolina that don't know bernie sanders as well as those who are supporting him in new hampshire? >> name recognition is very big. it's no secret here in south carolina and in the south in general that the clinton name rings a bell with a lot of voters. what you're seeing over time is that the harder bernie works, the more he works, the more

voters he touches, his name i.d. is going up. and along with that, you see his polling numbers going up. so the next few weeks will be extremely important, but bernie can do it. >> mike barnicle. >> once you educated yourself as to mr. sanders' positions you changed your mind on him and decided to support him. so which positions specifically made you make that choice in contrast to where you had been with hillary clinton? what positions specifically caused you to change your mind? >> one of the things i liked about bernie the most is that he is extremely bold. he's not meek, he is not quiet about things that he is passionate about. he also does not have the conventional way of thinking about things or what you would call the status quo approach. that's one of the most attractive things i think about bernie sanders' candidacy. he also makes it very clear his stance on healthcare. he believes that healthcare is a

right to every american citizen and i wholeheartedly agree with that. you know, when you hear from me you're hearing from someone who represents a very poor and very rural district. last week the second hospital of two closed down. healthcare is a very real issue that needs to be addressed. there is a host of things that i find enticing about senator sanders and, you know, underlying it all is his passion. people think bernie sanders is trustworthy. when i talk with voters, when i speak with people about senator sanders one of the things that they say about him is they feel like he is an honest candidate. >> tell us really quickly how walter scott's family is doing. >> i know you represent them. >> we know you represent -- obviously represent them. >> yes, sir. the scott family is doing okay. you know, it's not that things are getting any easier. we do still have the criminal case going on and they are just

dealing with it one day at a time. the holidays were extremely difficult for them, as you can imagine, but they are hanging in there. they are a family of faith and they represent, you know, that which is good. so they are hanging in there. thank you so much for asking. >> let them know that we are thinking about them and thoughts and prayers are with them. thank you so much for being with us, we hope we can talk to you when we come down to south carolina in a couple weeks. >> hey, come on down, you are always welcome. >> thank you very much. we will be right back. there. then, woosh, it's gone. i swear i saw it swallow seven people. seven. i just wish one of those people could have been mrs. johnson. [dog bark] trust me, we're dealing with a higher intelligence here. ♪ the all-new audi q7 is here. ♪

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♪ that was an instagram video from donald trump yesterday aimed not at his primary competition but at president -- stop smiling -- president obama. >> what can you say? >> i don't know what to say. >> the art of the deal. still ahead what do we have, mika? >> just a week after flubbing a book of the bible at liberty university donald trump widens his lead among evangelical republicans. he joined us earlier in morning, we will bring you our interview with him in our next hour. on the democratic side pragmatism versus big ideas.

hillary clinton and bernie sanders make their closing arguments to iowans, now just six days away from the caucuses. "morning joe" is back in a moment. you can fly across welcome town in minutes16, or across the globe in under an hour. whole communities are living on mars and solar satellites provide earth with unlimited clean power. in less than a century, boeing took the world from seaplanes to space planes, across the universe and beyond. and if you thought that was amazing, you just wait. ♪

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the establishment, the media, the special interests, the lobbyists, the donors, they are all against me. i'm self-funding my campaign. i don't owe anybody anything, i only owe it to the american people to do a great job. they are really trying to stop me. everybody knows it. everybody sees it. the establishment actually

is against me but really coming online because they see me as opposed to cruz who is a nasty guy who can't get along with anybody. you know, look, at a certain point you've got to make deals. >> good morning. it is tuesday, january 26th. >> he's calling two things now. >> nasty. >> nasty guy and the canadian. >> the canadian. >> we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle, senior contributor for the daily caller and columnist at the week matt lewis. he is out with a new book "too dumb to fail," how the gop dee trade the reagan revolution to win elections and how it can reclaim its conservative roots and in des moines iowa, co-host of with all due respect which airs here on msnbc at 6:00 p.m. eastern time john heilemann.

>> six days away, we are in the count down to the iowa caucuses, exactly two weeks until the new hampshire primary. a new poll of the republican race out this hour shows another growing national lead for drump, at 39%, the nbc news survey monkey weekly online tracking poll has trump increasing his lead over ted cruz. he is now up 22 points as ted cruz falls 4 points, marco rubio is at 10 and ben carson at 8%. trump's national lead is also owing among white evangelical voters. >> you look at -- >> what? >> you look at the canadian deal, you look at the timing. ted cruz is down 9 points in that group. donald trump since talking about 2 corinthians plus 5 with evangelical voters it is, matt lewis -- >> the world is jun side down. >> pretty breathtaking. >> it's crazy. if you look at how good not only

how bad donald trump is at talking about the evangelicals, but how good ted cruz is at talking about we have to put on the full armor of god, this sort of rolls off his tongue, how he speaks evangelical. ted cruz is so good at it and the fact that he is not dominating among iowa evangelicals is stunning. >> here is the thing, though, and i've talked about this before on this show, it bears repeating, i will say it again very quickly. when i went in the evangelical churches i said, i am you, i've been here, you know, since i was a little kid, i was here four days -- you know, four days and nights a week, but don't vote for me because i'm the best christian, i'm the worst, not even a close call. i'm -- but i know who you are, i know it's important to you and at the end of the day i believe what you believe and i will take you and your fears, your concerns up to washington and that works. then the next guy would come up and he would be like --

>> reciting from -- >> jesus means a lot to me. jesus, i just don't go anywhere without jesus in my back pocket. you know, evangelicals are shrewd enough like everybody else to figure out what's in their best interest and they will take a guy who is honest and straightforward and say, i am what i am, but i know who you are and i'm going to go up there and i'm going to beat the hell out of anybody that gets in my way defending your rights versus a guy who is either bias or playing pias. >> that's it, playing pias. i've seen him do it, he is very good at speaking evangelical but there is an element of insincerity in his rap -- two or three minutes into it you go -- >> cruz has always been sanctimonious. i'm surprised that people would see through it because a lot of times pandering works. it actually works. >> nothing works this time.

the world is upside down. this election people are done with it all. >> in new hampshire they are close. you can pander in a 30-second ad, but when you are in their church, when you go to wednesday night supper, when you go to training unions sunday night, you know, when you walk through sunday school classes, they can figure it out. and i've seen it. i've seen people running for sheriff at first baptist church in pensacola coming in and doing their rap. and then they leave the door, it closes, go, come on. >> cute. >> yeah, the guy -- the guy got a bible last week. >> the thing we have learned about trump is he transcends all these cross paths, he leads among evangelicals not because he is the greatest christian in the world, but they like gun owners and everybody else think he is strong, he is going to change the way we do business, it's an emotional gut thing that's not even related to any ideological issue or any specific -- >> it's a thing. >> you know, if you look at the

iowa cross tabs, gun owners, he has been back and forth on guns his entire life and career, but they don't care, they like the guy and think he's strong. >> shameless sales promotion, "too dumb to fail," my book, that's why these are the huge decisions happening in this election right now. if you look at things that conservatives like me, maybe paul ryan care about, entitlement reform, huge drivers of the debt, we need to fix them to ensure their longevity. donald trump says, you know, let's not mess with social security. i mean, this is a huge decision right now, over what it needs to even be a conservative or republican. >> but the thing is that, will, you were talking about gun owners, evangelicals, what is the thing that is a common denominator? it's that gun owners, the majority of gun owners believe despite his past views that donald trump will fight for them, he's going to fight for the second amendment. he says he will, they believe he will. evangelicals believe the same

thing. is he pure as driven snow? no. they want somebody who will fight for the second amendment and evangelical values and that's where he's winning, on strength. >> let's look at new hampshire in a third poll in as many days shows trump doubling his nearest opponent, he is up 7 points since december to 33%, 19 points ahead of ted cruz at 14%. governor john kasich who yesterday picked up the endorsement of the boston globe jumped four points to third with 12%, jeb bush at 9, marco rubio at 8, chris christie has slid to 7. >> a lot to cut through here. a ton to look at here, john heilemann. of course, trump up 7 points. just absolutely blowing away the field, but case i can is the story right now, he's got the momentum. plus 4. then you have marco rubio minus 4 all the way down to fifth place. what strikes you the most in this poll? >> well, you hit it on the head there, joe. the case i can story is now, i

think, emerging as a clear trend line. he has now been in second place or close to second place in about eight or nine polls in this month alone in new hampshire. we've asked the question for the past three or four months over and over again who is going to break away among these establishment candidates in new hampshire? who is going to kind of get dominance in that lane and no one did it for months and months. it looks increasingly like john kasich may be the guy who is playing the hot hand among those four big establishment republicans in the state where they are all competing hardest, which is of course new hampshire. >> all right. so staying in new hampshire on the democratic side a new franklin pierce boston harold poll shows sanders with a 16 point lead over hillary clinton. the two were essentially tied in a poll a month ago. and a new fox news poll also out of new hampshire shows sanders with an even bigger lead. in this poll he leads clinton by 22 points among granite state democrats. >> that's why iowa is so

important to hillary clinton. >> iowa is it. >> if hillary loses iowa the slingshot effect into new hampshire -- >> in iowa a fox news poll shows sanders within 6 points of clinton, 48 to 42, he has gained 6 points since december. you wonder if the younger voter factor could hurt him. clinton with a 14 point lead over sanders and a new cnn orc poll shows clinton with an identical 14 point lead nationwide. now, at an event in iowa bernie sanders turned to a staple of his stump speech that millions of people in america don't get enough money to survive on social security. he asked the audience for their stories about the struggle of living off about $10,000 a year, including this one. >> i've been living on probably less than that for a long time because of disabilities.

it is so hard. you will do anything to pay your bills. you are ashamed all the time and i could completely understand how she feels and when you can't buy presents for your children it's really, really -- really hard. and i've worked, i've worked three, four, five jobs sometimes, always minimum wage. i have a degree. divorced and it's just i'm waiting for disability to come through so my parents have to support me. it's just hard. >> it is not easy for people to stand up and say that. but the truth is that until millions of people who are experiencing exactly what you guys are experiencing do say that, we don't make change.

>> so the question when you listen to that woman speak, you wonder who is going to be there for her, hillary clinton or bernie sanders? what's the answer to that question? >> bill clinton would have knocked that out of the ballpark. >> who would actually -- actually with policy and fighting in washington and actual execution who would be there for her? >> i think that's a question that -- >> i think that's a question that democratic voters are going to have to figure out. here is a news spot from the sanders campaign set to begin airing in iowa today. >> there are those who say we cannot defeat a corrupt political system and fix a rigged economy. but i believe we need to lift our vision above the obstacles in place and look to the american horizon. to a nation where every child cannot only dream of going of college, but attend one. where quality healthcare will be a birth right of every citizen.

where a good job is not a wish, but a reality. where women receive equal pay and a living wage is paid to all. an america where after a lifetime of labor there is time for rest and grandchildren. a nation that defends our people and our values but no longer carries so much of that burden alone. i know we can create that america if we listen to our hearts and that journey begins here in iowa. >> boy, he has got a great story. i don't know who does those ads, but they are fantastic. >> all these candidates are making their closing arguments here. the clinton campaign releasing a new ad in washington. check out her ad. >> one of the areas that i've been particularly interested in is the area of children. >> all of us have a responsibility to ourselves, to our children, to each other. >> we intend to be sure that everybody in this room and every child in this state is somebody. >> no matter where they're born,

no matter to whom they are born, our children's future is shaped both by the values of their parents and the policies of their nation. it's time to protect the next generation. fill the lives of our children with possibility and hope. open up the doors so that every child has a chance to live up to his or her god-given potential. i've spent my life fighting for children, families and our country and i'm not stopping now. >> so that goes to your question, mika, which of the candidates do you think would stand up for that woman. i think they both have a good case to make, hillary clinton and bernie sanders. this ad goes to the question a lot of people have asked and vice president biden alluded to which is joe biden has been living these issues his entire life and hillary clinton is new to them. in this ad she says, wait a minute, i've an advocating for people who don't make enough

women in this entire country my entire life as well. >> i think you mean bernie sanders, willie, has been living these issues my entire life. i got a little confused in this question. >> joe biden was the one that said that hillary was relatively new to this. >> sorry about that. i couldn't -- didn't quite follow. look, they both have a history, they are both progressives, they both have long histories, her starting with the children's defense fund and moving through her whole life. bernie sanders. they have been committed to progressive ideals and progressive policies for a long time. it seems to me like the argument is boiling down to an argument at least how the clinton campaign is framing it and in some extent how the sanders campaign is framing it. the clinton campaign is saying, look, we both share the same values but let's get real here. think about pragmatism, who can get most of these things done, i, hillary clinton, am more likely to get these things done for you. and the sanders campaign is saying, you know, pragmatism and

realism is basically about the compromise and incrementalism. we make these compromises all the time. let's dream big and anything is possible and let's not be these compromising incremental kind of policies and politics that the clintons are famous for. that's the argument that's on display here right now. i don't know which way iowa voters will go, but that notion of dreaming big versus kind of trying to get real is what the argument is about in these final days here in iowa. >> still ahead on "morning joe," donald trump joined us earlier this morning and we will bring you more of that conversation. plus another donald, former secretary of defense ronald rumsfeld joins us, we will ask him about the state of america's armed forces. and also why at 83 years old he decided to develop a smartphone app of all things. >> i love it. >> but first bill karins with a check on the forecast. this forecast is a thumbs up forecast. i will explain that they end. let me show you the before and after to the blizzard. we had a little bit of snow in

the norfolk area, none hardly over kentucky and tennessee. let me clear this off. let me fast forward into what we're dealing with now out there. this is the after image. this in the brown is where the snow didn't fall up around poughkeepsie, but from the boston area all the way back through pennsylvania and all the way down to the south that is all fresh snow covering the region. pretty cool stuff when you get these images from nasa like that. as far as the forecast is going to go, everyone is wondering will we get that weekend storm. down in the gulf there is rough weather, we are seeing showers and thunderstorms this morning. a lot of tropical moisture. the heavy rain fires up louisiana, alabama, as we go throughout tomorrow tonight, tomorrow. thursday heavy showers in florida again and so the storm forms. is it going to take a path up the coast or off the coast? thankfully yesterday it was kind of wish wash which way it was going to be, all of our

computers are agreeing now it's going to head out to sea and not make the turn up north, we are expecting a dry thursday, friday, saturday with temperatures in the 40s and no affects from this storm whatsoever. i'm sure the people on the jersey shore appreciate that also. as far as the forecast goes for the rest of today, we only have a little other problems in the northwest, a little bit of rain, you shoveled a little snow in areas of northern michigan but not too bad. temperatures pretty mild. there is no signed of any arctic outbreak or big snowstorms anytime soon. we deserve a little break. we have had a pretty harsh winter over the last two or three weeks. leave you with a shot of washington, d.c., everything still shut down, hopefully tomorrow it should be better, getting up to 45 degrees. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit?

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earlier this morning donald trump joined us. here is part of that

conversation. >> the way ted cruz's numbers are slipping, is it because of your charge that he's from canada and may not be able to be president if he's elected? >> well, he does have a problem there, there is no question about it. nobody knows if he can even run. he has to solve that problem, get a declaratory judgment from the courts. he could be running and end up being thrown out of the race in the middle of it and the democrats -- you know the democrats will sue the f. irs day -- if he got the nomination there would be a lawsuit day one and the lawsuit will take years to resolve. >> i was going to ask you, donald, if you really believed that, but then you followed up with what is the truth, which is the second he got the nomination the democrats would go to court. >> okay. but ted cruz in every poll is not slipping, i just read the latest one out of iowa and there is just a few points between you two. >> well, i don't know, i assume it's close to iowa, that's the one place where it's close. it could very well be close. i think we will do great in iowa, but you never know. i think iowa is the one place

that's close. every other state i'm leading by a lot. i mean, i just left new hampshire last night and it's unbelievable the lead up there, i hit 40 or 42 points up there. i think the only place where we could be close is iowa. i see we're either close or have very big leads because i saw some polls yesterday where we have a very big lead. i think ted is a nasty guy, people don't like him at all. he's got all of these senators, republican senators, he doesn't have support of one of them. he gets a whack co like this glenn beck who every time i see him he's crying, he is so emotional, what a mess and he gets a whack job like glenn beck to support him which i think is a negative not a positive. i think ted has some problems and he doesn't tell the truth. >> donald, it's willie. speaking of ted cruz he has new ads up, released another one in iowa, one in south carolina aimed directly at you. let's take a listen. >> hey, i lived in new york city

in manhattan all my life. okay? so my views are a little bit different than if i lived in iowa. >> they are different, like on abortion. >> would president trump ban partial birth abortion. >> look, i am pro choice in every respect. >> what does trump think about iowa? >> how stupid are the people of iowa? >> donald trump, new york values, not ours. >> donald, what's your reaction to that ad, particularly the first part? >> i will if i have you an example. first of all, i am pro life and everyone understands that, i'm pro life. going into a second thing about how stupid are the people of iowa, then i said how stupid are the people of the united states and i was talking about because everybody in this country was believing -- i'm not going to mention his name, but it was a certain candidate. >> ben carson. it was ben carson. >> i didn't say iowa, i said iowa and then i said united states. he didn't put united states. because ted cruz lies, he is a liar. and that's why nobody likes him, that's why his senate people won't endorse him, that's why he

stands in the middle of the senate floor and can't make a deal with anybody, he looks like a jerk, he's standing all by himself. there's something to say about having a little bit of ability to get other people to do things, you can't be a lone wolf and stand there. that's sort of what we have right now is as a president, we have a president that can't get anything done so he just keeps be signing executive orders all over the place. >> did you just make a parallel between ted cruz and president obama? >> they are the same. i think ted is more try dent than obama if you want to know the truth. nobody gets along with ted, at least some people like obama, nobody likes ted, i don't find anybody who likes him. i talk to senators that want to come out and endorse me. it's amazing what's happened over the last two weeks, i told this to joe, mika, over the last two weeks so many people are calling and saying, you know, we want to get involved with you, we want to endorse you. we have a very big endorsement coming down today, a very powerful endorsement coming down today. >> who is that? >> what? >> who is it going to be?

>> you will find out a little bit later. so many people want to endorse us because they say ted cruz is wacky, something missing there. i don't know. there's something -- there's something wrong. you know, it's wonderful to be a rebel, but you've got to get some people on your side a little bit. here is a guy with all of the republican senators sitting out there, he deals with them every day when he is there, he deals with them every day and he doesn't have one senator supporting him, not one republican senator supporting him. it's pretty sad. >> donald, when did your feelings about ted cruz change because for a large part of this campaign he was the one guy that you said, do you know what, he is a friend of mine, he is okay, you went after these other ones. >> i said he is a friend of mine, willie and i kept saying and told you, too, but when is he going to come at me. because i know him. i know people. i became rich understanding people. i say when is he going to come at me? when i say friend of mine, everything i said was okay, i could say anything and he said, oh, it's okay, it's okay. very few of the others were

doing that, although many of them were rerespectful and very nice to me. i like a lot of the guys i am running with, i will make a much better president but these are minor details. with ted cruz, i kept saying when is he going to come? then he came at the debate when he talked about new york values and this and that and he really came at me very strong in the debate. aside at one point here we go. i said when are you going to come at me, ted, and he finally came at me. i think according to everybody i won that last debate into mike barnicle. >> donald, one of your friends, maybe a former friend right now, i don't know, michael bloomberg, mayor of new york, former mayor of new york, a man just as wealthy, perhaps wealthier than you is thinking of running for the presidency of the united states. talk about him. give us your relationship with him and what you think his chances would be if he jumped in. >> well, he used to be a friend of mine. i haven't spoken to him in a long time.

i did a good job for him because he had a project in the bronx that was a disaster called ferry point, it was under construction for years and years, sucking up money from the city, they were in there for $300 million. it was under construction for 25 years or more, they don't even know when it began. he asked me to take it over and i went through the process and i took it over and i got it done in less than a year. i did a great job on it. and, you know, i really helped him. in fact, i made a promise to him, i said, i will get it done before the end of your administration, it was the last year of your administration and we actually had a ground breaking in october and of course he left in january. i did a good job. now, i don't think he is a friend of mine anymore based on what i'm hearing, when i hear he wants to run because trump is running, i don't know, and i will tell you -- and i'm not talking about john and mark, but other than john and mark i get treated so badly by bloomberg, the things they say are just unbelievable. the worst -- just about of anybody, which is hard to believe because i get treated

pretty badly by most, but the worst of about anybody. they treat me so knowingly badly that i would assume he is going to run. i hope he runs. look, i like michael, i have always liked michael, i don't think we have any relationship -- you know e the relationship i think is probably gone, which is just fine with me. but i hope he runs because i love the competition and i think it would be a very different dialogue for the debates. i really think it would be very interesting if he runs. i hope -- i hope that michael runs. he won't win, but i hope he runs. >> coming up on "morning joe," donald rumsfeld is here and we will get his take on everything from america's role in iraq today so what he makes of donald trump's rise. and if he think it will last. next on "morning joe."

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this is big. 32 past the hour. joining us now former defense secretary donald rumsfeld. he spent 40 years in politics and now at 83 he's trying his hand at developing a new app called churchill solitaire. we will get so that in just a moment. first, wow, you may or may not have been the cause of some family brauls that ended up on the front wall of the brzezinski household perhaps on thanksgiving. >> mika texted ian and said -- because ian works -- >> he worked for you. >> good guy. >> at the pentagon. >> isn't he saw om?

>> terrific. >> mika said anything you want want me to say. >> he said tell me that i enjoyed working for him. no one did more to inform nato nato capabilities, i really mean that. >> >> isn't that nice. >> my brother ian. my brother mark might have -- one democrat, one republican. >> i want to get to the app in a second but let's talk about just the absolute chaos that sprayed across the middle east right now. obviously democrats and others would say that it started with the bush administration's invasion in iraq, republicans look to obama getting out of iraq too quickly. what's your take? >> of course, we're seeing tensions in the region that date back hundreds of years and i'm -- unfortunately i think the reality is what we're seeing there is likely to persist over a period of many, many years going forward. i think we are not in a short

conflict, we are in a long conflict and we are going to be the target as the united states of america, regrettably, but so, too, are a lot of other people, including muslims that will be killed. >> so how do we balance -- how do we balance our use of force? how do we not go in too aggressively but at the same time not sit back and lead from behind in a way that allows for what happened in syria to happen over the past several years? >> i guess the answer is people do the best they can. the reality is that what's happening in libya and syria and iraq -- repression works. a vicious dictator can impose his will on the population successfully and when that repression is taken off, you can't predict what's going to

happen really, except that you know that people are capable of doing some truly wonderful things, but people are also capable of doing some perfectly horrible things. >> which leads to the next question which i ask all the presidential candidates -- >> i'm not a presidential candidate. >> and foreign policy leaders. if the united states could go and turn the clock back to 2002 would the world not be a more secure place, a more stable place, if saddam hussein were in iraq -- still in iraq, if muammar cad daef were still in libya and if assad were still securely in charge of all the of syria? >> i don't think there's anyone wise enough to know how to answer that question. the reality is that the arab spring occurred and it spread throughout many countries and the mentions between the sunnis and the shias are real and

deep-seated. it's unfortunate. saddam hussein of course was a brutal vicious dictator, he used chemical weapons on his neighbors, he used kennel cal weapons on his own people, the kurds, he invaded other countries and he was not somebody that one would want to be responsible for keeping in office. >> right. >> on the other hand, the disorder that has occurred is not a happy prospect, either. it's a tough world. it's not perfect, that's for sure. >> mike. >> last week we had your successor in, bob gates. >> uh-huh. >> and we asked him for his view of some of the things that some of the candidates running for president now are saying with regard to how they would handle the growth of isis and the due multi, the gross increasing tomb ult in the middle east. a lot of it indicated to him

that some of the candidates don't know what they are talking about. what's your view? >> i guess it's helpful to know what you know and know what you don't know and i am preceded bob gates so he is more current than i am. >> but just talking about specifically i asked him about ted cruz's idea of carpet bombing isis into oblivion, he said that's just foolish. >> the reality is that we're going to have to find ways to reduce the funding for radical islamists, we're going to have to find ways to limit their recruiting successes and that means we are going to have to compete worldwide with a very powerful apparently attractive strain of that faith. it's going to take time, it's going to take effort, it's going to take the cooperation of a lot of muslims and muslim countries that are against that radical strain in their faith and in the

last analysis anyone who thinks we're dealing with a normal war where you're dealing with armies, navys and air forces, we're not. we're dealing with something that is totally asymmetrical and it's apparently an attraction. we're also -- the principle of deterrents doesn't work anymore, the old principle. we are not going to have to compete with large armies, navys or air forces from these folks. they are not -- the cross-benefit ratio for them is you can spend hundreds of millions of dollars building a generator plant, they can blow it up with a few hundred dollars. they are perfectly willing to die and we are used to dealing with enemies and opponents that are protecting real estate and protecting their lives. these people aren't doing either. >> let's talk about what you're doing now at the age of 83 you've decided to become a tech master.

i must say you have developed an app called churchill solitaire which mika the second she saw this she said, yeah, joe is going to download this in about two seconds. tell us about it. what is it? >> well, when i was ambassador to nato i became a friend of a belgium diplomate who had learned this game from winston churchill and churchill taught him and he taught me and it's a fascinating game, it requires strategic approach, it's complicated, it uses two full decks and you can't even play it with normal cards if you're trying to do that, you have to use miniature cards, but the -- we didn't have iphones or ipads back in those days in the '70s when i was over in brussels. >> right. >> we do today and the app is on here and it's just booming. people are down loading it. >> extraordinary. >> yeah. it is a terrific game. you can also play it competitively i play it with my wife. >> oh, wow.

>> that could get tough. so what is it about the game that attracted churchill that attracts you? >> well, he apparently liked card games as well as cigars and scotch and other things, but he used it i'm sure as a distraction, as something to occupy his mind and it is so challenging and so difficult that it's fun. i've enjoyed it. i've played it now for years since i was taught the game back in the 1970s and i decided that this was something that -- i'm no technical expert, there were very smart people who were able to put this on the ipad. >> when did you first hear the word app? >> all i remember is when i first heard it i said, what are you talking about? >> exactly. >> so did you ever play chess

with my dad? >> i have not played chess with him, but that's a wonderful game, too. >> he cheats. >> no, he doesn't. >> he doesn't cheat. he will -- >> he may distract you. >> he will win. >> we've got to go but i'm curious what's your thought when you turn on the tv and you see donald trump and bernie sanders getting 5, 10, 15,000 people out at political events a year away from the general election? >> i probably think what you think as a former politician, it's amazing. >> yeah. >> they have touched a nerve, bernie sanders and donald trump, they have done something -- i mean, the fact that 15,000, 20,000 people will show up to hear them speak, i mean, a normal politician is lucky to see 500, 1,000. >> that's a big day. 500 is a big day. >> i remember tim russert coming on our show in 2008 in new hampshire saying, my god, barack obama had almost 1,200 people

show up. >> right. >> yeah. >> and these guys are getting -- >> bernie is the one that really to me is sort of something from within because donald trump had a tv show and, you know, is known -- >> and no one ever heard of bernie sanders. >> no one ever heard of bernie sanders. look at him. >> it is amazing. >> the new app is called churchill solitaire and it's available on apple's app store. do you know about that, donald rumsfeld, the app store? i don't think so. >> i will download it right after the show. >> thank you so much for being on the show. >> thank you. >> nice to see you. still ahead, what keeps the top ceos up at night from regulations to global unrest, we will get a look inside the minds of the world's biggest business leaders. we will be right back. [vet] two yearly physicals down.

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better and it's because oil turned around, it is now higher. as goes oil, so goes the stock market. overnight china stocks dropped more than 6% because oil prices plunged back below $30 a barrel. the levin here, guys, is this stock market globally is being held hostage by the price of oil and until oil can find a bottom, stocks are going to have trouble finding a footing. so the question is -- >> sara, i don't understand. i thought actually -- i thought it was -- >> he's confused. >> i thought it was china's slow down that was impacting oil prices. it sounds like a vicious cycle. you are now saying low oil prices also impact china. >> correct. because what we saw in china overnight is a lot of the energy producers and a lot of the energy and mining companies got slammed. it is a vicious cycle because what oil has come to symbolize is the economic slowdown globally. the world slows down, they want less oil and that's why the price of oil has become the

number one barometer for what the global economy is doing and that includes china. they both impact each other and the only thing i will tell you, guys, is that in order to see oil from stopping the free-fall here you will need to see more supply come back on to the market, iraq or russia or even the u.s., any energy producer needs to cut back on production because we have too much oil in the world and that's going to be the key but everybody still pumping. >> that's the problem. >> sara, thank you very much. >> thank you. joining us now the u.s. chairman and senior partner of price water house coopers bob ma ritz, he is hear with their annual global ceo survey. this is fascinating. >> bob, to follow up with what we were talking about with sara, it's hard if you are an oil producer, whether in the u.s. or across the globe, while oil was $100 a barrel, you made a lot of investments, invest in a lot of equipment and you have to pay back the loans now. it's not like you can stop pumping oil. >> it is a challenge regardless if you are in the oil industry and all the eco chambers that

are around that, suppliers, logistics, et cetera, it's also got a big effect in term of governmental issues, and associatel issues. >> you have a survey what ceo will worry about this year, it's a long list. top of the list, number one, u.s. market prospects to outshine in low growth world. this is what you expect in 2016. what's your number one worry? >> the number one worry from a pure business perspective has been regulations. it's historically been that in the u.s. for a number of years when you look at litigation issues, the disparate regulatory agencies that we have, it's the first time it has hit that high point across the entirety of the globe because it is a big issue across the regions regardless of where you arer living. >> we are talking about the top three kerns of ceoes is secret service, overregulation being the top one. we have oil, we have china going flat and geopolitical uncertainty across the globe. a lot of things suppressing

growth. >> the reality is every business right now and for that matter government is worried about a myriad of things. china clearly, an economy that is in transition, you have to also get into the details, what's happening with the state owned enterprises the consumers. those are two different stories. you get into the issues of oil, you guys just talked about that a couple seconds ago, you get into some of the geopolitical issues and i will call it the political issues in general. the number one issue that was talked about in davos is our political issues going on right now. >> the u.s. companies, specifically u.s. ceos, what's the level of concern about the political uncertainty/paralysis in washington? >> it's pretty big. there's en certainty in terms of what the various candidates are saying and implications and how we will operate from a global perspective, what will happen in terms of trade and cap issues. >> let's put the name out on the table because richard haas has been saying for six months even

while people were dismissing donald trump he said every meeting they would start and end by asking, trump, is this trump guy for real. >> two issues with that. number one trump is he for real and what's the implications of that, we are trying to figure that out as some of the debates go on, the second issue is what's up with your u.s. system? the system in and of itself in terms of what's happening right now, they have this diverse slate of candidates all over the boered and fairly spread in terms of the republicans in particular. they are saying is your system going to stay intact over the long-term. >> bob, you will have to come back. we will be back in just a moment. where self-proclaimed financial superstars pitch you investment opportunities. i've got a fantastic deal for you- gold! with the right pool of investors, there's a lot of money to be made. but first, investors must ask the right questions and use the smartcheck challenge to make the right decisions. you're not even registered; i'm done with you! i can...i can...

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my new battle is with a gentleman named ted cruz because you've got to speak the truth. you've got to speak the truth. the canadian, the man from canada. thank you. that was very helpful. i don't know. that's so succinct. that was very good. he screams out the canadian. yeah, that's right, the canadian. he could run right now for prime minister of canada. >> we had a very interesting interview with donald trump this morning. he really came out swinging against ted cruz, talked about the democrats he could work with in d.c. and told us exactly what he was thinking sort of when he was standing next to sarah palin during her endorsement speech when she was going on and on and on and on. i know what he was thinking. he said what he was thinking. it's the first time i'm not so

sure he actually meant what he was saying. >> we shall see what happens. this is -- >> read between the lines. >> it's a two-person race. ted cruz has the money, he's got the organization, the discipline to go a long way. right now it looks like trump and cruz. this morning msnbc is going to be replaying the entire interview we had with donald trump at 10:00 a.m. eastern. coming up next what, if anything, if we learn today? ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands

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welcome back. what have we learned today. >> i'm going to start with mike barnicle. what did you learn? >> i learned that off of the astounding lead that donald j. trump of the white evangelicals that i am no longer going to try to figure anything out. >> mika. >> i think you're right. i also learned that donald rumsfeld plays a very competitive game with his wife which is a testament to their marriage. >> that's good. >> my dad will not play chess with my mom. that would not end well at all. >> for anybody. >> absolutely not. >> well, you know, i learned that everything still in flux but iowa matters with all apologies to jeff greenfield, iowa matters because if trump and bernie win in iowa it's going to have an accelerator effect into new hampshire. any chance of stopping bernie's momentum or trump's momentum starts and ends in iowa.

cruz can continue, he can survive because he's got money and organization, it's just a lot tougher if trump gets that win. >> all bets are off. way too early, what time is it? >> time for "morning joe" to end, but stick around because msnbc live is coming up next. and it's another super tuesday on msnbc with iowa in sight, now less than a week for those crucial caucuses and the candidates are making their closing arguments. >> i've been on the front lines of change and progress since i was your age. >> i'm trying to win her vote, leave me alone. >> i have a longer history than one vote. >> establishment politics is just not good enough. we need bold changes and a political revolution. >> my new battle is with a gentleman named ted cruz. >> my approach to donald is the same as it was before that i will not engage in insults. >> he could run right now for