mebody? if you're a couple, you fight over directions. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. oh ohhhhh it's what you do. ohhhhhh! do you have to do that right in my ear? >> you travel coach yourself and you always travel in the middle seat. why is that? is that pen innocence for something? why travel in the middle seat, sir? >> because we couldn't get the aisle or the damn window, that's why. [ laughter ] >> see, that's going to be bernie's appeal. couldn't get damn aisle.

good morning, it's thursday, february 11, we're back in new york. on set we have former communications director for president george w. bush, nicolle wallace, former governor of vermont and former chair of the democratic national committee howard dean, and in columbia, south carolina, managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin is with us as well. >> we have to ask nicolle, how is your father. has he called you with gloating calls about trump, trump, trump. >> i will do dramatic reading. [ laughter ] they're super happy. super happy, yeah. >> really. >> yeah. now, my mother has been a registered independent for many years, she went down to the republican party head quarter ins reno, nevada, to register as a democrat to she can caucus with donald trump. >> so they here in and proud. >> howard dean, you've done this before. can you believe what happened the other night with not just trump but bernie sanders. >> he's got the vermont connection. >> holding hillary to 38%.

stunning. >> well, bernie's a talented politician. and he is next door, that helps, and he's got a very powerful message. >> does it help? i've heard both arguments. >> i go back as far as dukakis, or ed muskie, the person next door has always won the new hampshire caucus. muskie, dukakis, john kerry. >> just that. that's it. nothing else? >> no, i'm sure it's a lot of other things. >> he won by like 49 points. >> it wasn't 49 points. >> 29. >> but howard, taken as a hall, not just on the democratic side but on the republican side, this was like a primal scream against establishment politics. >> excuse me, i'm very sensitive to that term. [ laughter ] >> oh, so good. >> i say it in a very positive way. >> i think that's right. we talked about this. and there's voting crossover between trump and sanders. >> there is. >> because this is the american people who are upset with the

political establishment and they're upset with what's going on in washington and that's reflected in the new hampshire primary. my suspicion is it will settle down. i think the big winner on last -- tuesday was jeb bush. >> really? >> he's alive and well and moving into stronger territory. you wouldn't think a fourth-place finish in the caucus would get him that. >> dana milbank makes that argument. >> because if rubio had come in ahead of bush i think that might have been the end of him but i don't think it is. >> we'll get to that. but, first, fresh off his 22-point victory in new hampshire, bernie sanders will debate hillary clinton again tonight in milwaukee. meanwhile, sanders's victory in new hampshire has sparked a jaw-dropping influx of cash for his campaign. can you believe this? his camp reported raising over $6 million in the first 24 hours after the polls closed. the average donation in the first 18 hours after voting ended was $34.

at one point on tuesday night, the campaign reportedly processed 2,689 individual contributions in a single minute. >> i will tell you, that's a lot of of fis. >> that's a lot. >> i won't tell you how much the tech is now than when we were doing this. we used to crash the sites all the time. >> when i say that's a lot of coffees, you would go, right, old coffees, you'd have 30 people there, you'd get $20 from each, thank you, like two hours later you'd leave. look at those numbers. >> he said in his victory speech "please help. that's my fund-raiser." and to put the $6 million figure in perspective, sanders' largest 24-hour haul prior to winning new hampshire came in the wake of his near-tie with clinton in the iowa caucuses when his campaign pulled in $3 million. and as the democrats shift focus to south carolina and nevada and with them a much different set of demographics, bernie sanders has released this ad.

>> our job is not to divide. our job is to bring people together. if we do not allow them divide us up by race, by sexual orientation, by gender, by not allowing them to divide us up by whether or not we were born in america or whether we're immigrants, when we stand together as white, black, and hispanic and gay and straight and woman and man, when we stand together and demand that this country works for all of us rather than the few, we transform america and that is what this campaign is about. it's bringing people together. >> nicolle, hillary's campaign is awash in difficulties, they don't know who they are.

they may not even know who's going to be running their campaign down the road. this is a campaign right now that has everything. it has absolutely everything going for it. a candidate that electrifies big crowds with a simple straightforward message, massive fund-raising, small donors and they put out the two best ads of this campaign, the "america" ad and this ad and there's not a close second. >> the two best ads in sort of modern political warfare, right? they completely undercut their opponents' vulnerabilities and weaknesses in an entirely positive, uplifting, and gorgeous manner. so it's very hard to do both those things. but they managed to do that. and i think it's a lot easier to run a presidential campaign for someone who sort of animate ago revolution. you don't to go out and poll test a message. >> i don't think i would say this is easy, what he's doing.

>> it's easier to put together something like that. that was a line from a speech that i'm sure bernie was just riffing. that wasn't a written speech. >> trust me, it is easy when you know what you believe and you don't fire saying what you believe. that's as easy as it gets. and that's when everything seems to work together and feed into each other. it's a lot easier for ad people to put something like that together. >> mark halperin, no question that bernie sanders has everything going for him right now and no spinning to what happened in new hampshire as anything but a blowout win for him but the clinton campaign still believes that that the campaign begins in earnest now, heading to states where there is more diversity demographically, where there's a majority of the electorate on the democratic side in south carolina is african-american, they have huge leads in those categories. do you think the clinton campaign should still feel like it's in a good spot. >> jon meacham likes to quote

thoreau, i like to quote haley barbour who said in politics "good gets better, bad gets worse." right now sanders has money, momentum and message. and everything that could go wrong in the clinton campaign is going wrong right now. there's distrust between the candidate and the staff, there's questions about the balance between fund-raising, positive message, negative message. there's no doubt as a static message, these next two states, nevada and south carolina, should be better for her but sanders has momentum and in those two states the best she can do is come out with victories that stabilize her campaign. the real battle will be in march where she is going to be almost certainly now at a financial deficit and fundamentally all the talk about bringing new people or changing up the message, whatever, she's going to have to perform as a candidate. she's going to have to remind people why she was the favorite for so many people in the democratic party. it's hard to do that when you're on your back feet trying to deal with all the complaints and criticism she's facing. >> i see no evidence their campaign is in disarray.

that's washington talk. >> it's not washington talk. that's clinton talk -- >> i actually talked with the campaign. >> that's talk from everybody around the clintons. that's talk everywhere but you. >> everybody around the clintons is what wrecked her campaign the last time. i wouldn't pay attention to any of those people. >> she said herself "we need to make some changes." >> you can be a republican and know that they're dialing around town for -- >> we'll see who's right. we'll see what happens after south carolina and nevada. >> well, i think south carolina, i think she's going to home territory there so she should do better there. she's up by about 40 points now so maybe she stable sizes. >> she can relax a little bit. >> mark, let's go from the democratic side to the republican side. i remember several months back when you did the focus group in new hampshire, it was eye-opening. you have a new focus group in south carolina. also equally eye-opening and it speaks to the challenges that donald trump has going down to a state where he may be way ahead

but where there's a lot of evangelicals for ted cruz to focus on. >> joe, we came down straight from new hampshire to try to get a sense ahead whereof the current understanding is of what's going on with south carolina republicans. this was a group of undecided republicans who say they'll vote in the the primary. some were loosely attached to one or another candidate but all of them said at least they could still change their mind and what was surprising, maybe, for folks given the coverage out of new hampshire was a sharp focus on two candidates, cruz and trump. and in the case of donald trump, they liked a lot about him, they thought he'd do well but there were some real concerns about some of the stylistic things that seem to play well in iowa and certainly new hampshire but may not play as well here in the bible belt. we're going to talk more in detail about some of these folks now. donald trump? >> he's very brave to have no political background and to jump out there and run for the highest office in our nation. >> he's espousing what the people are feeling. >> what do you think of the way

he's talked about his religious believes. >> i'm not sure he's such a religious person. >> i think he's relatively honest but i don't believe him on his -- what he says about his religion. >> raise your hand if you disagree with kerrey and dan and think mr. trump is a religious person. anybody disagree? so you all agree he's not. you all said you didn't think he was religious as he says he is. raise your hand if you're troubled by that. i want to show you one more clip of mr. trump. >> he gets the nomination, they're going to sue his ass off. knock [ bleep ] out of isis. and you can tell them to go [ bleep ] themselves. >> oh. >> oh, my goodness. >> wow. >> you all have a pretty strong reaction to this. is it something you'd consider disqualifying or just not your cup of tea. >> it's crass. >> it's not professional. >> it's not how you want your president of the united states to present. not that kind of an image.

>> this is who's going to be negotiating with other world leaders. >> jacob, do you think the aspects of his life and what we saw in the clip, are those the kind of things that might hurt him more in south carolina than in iowa or new hampshire. >> the bible belt? oh, yeah -- >> we don't tolerate that. >> this is the belt buckle right here. >> so a lot of strength for donald trump amongst this group, but some real concerns about some aspect i don't say saw there, some questions about whether he's presidential enough. but there's no doubt he's a dominating figure along with ted cruz here. we ask questions about jeb bush and john kasich and marco rubio, all three of them will take away things from this though kwus gro -- focus group that will encourage them but they're all seen things more negatively than trump and cruz. >> trump, with all the problems he had with those evangelicals, they all thought he was going to win. maybe that's just because he won new hampshire. we talked about it before the new hampshire vote to expect ted cruz to surprise because he's

got the ground game. ted cruz did surprise. and he's got a lot larger group to target, focus on, and get out to vote. this is -- if trump's up by let's say 15 right now, this is going to be a close race between trump and cruz, right? >> just enormous interest in ted cruz and a lot of the things that people in washington think about ted cruz -- that he's unlikable, too political, too self-interested -- this group didn't think that at all. it was interesting to hear from them where they get their information about what they know and what they think about cruz. >> what about jeb bush? >> jeb bush, very negative. the same bush fatigue that john heilemann and i found in our focus groups in iowa and new hampshire. very down on the notion of a third bush. we showed them a clip of jeb bush talking about national security which he, along with lindsey graham, his big backer now, are emphasizing and they loved it when they saw bush talking about national security, they said "that was very strong." they were surprised.

they see him largely the way donald trump has painted him, as a weak person. but i think jeb bush can be encouraged, this long time between now and the primary, if people can see him, particularly talking about security, i think his -- he maybe can change some minds here. but, again, there was that stubborn bush fatigue. they like -- whether they liked his father and brother or not, they group did not want a third bush. >> let's listen to what the group had to say about ted cruz. take a look. >> ted cruz? >> trustworthy. >> very good appeal. >> believable. >> i like that he knows the constitution inside and out. >> steadfast. >> likable. >> when he stands for something, he's like a pit bull. >> very religious individual. >> actually, last week we talked at church. a lot of people had a very positive things to say about him. >> so sandy's gotten positive information about him from church and folks there. who else has gotten positive information and where have you gotten it from. >> glenn beck show on the radio. >> i listen to glenn beck, too, and he's very much a cruz supporter and i've listened to him for years and i trust his

opinion. >> who do you think is going to win the south carolina primary? >> i'm afraid trump. >> trump. >> trump. >> probably trump. >> probably trump. >> trump. >> unfortunately it will be trump. >> trump: >> if your only two choices in this race were trump and ted cruz, who would you vote for? >> ted cruz. >> ted cruz. >> ted cruz. >> trump. >> cruz. >> cruz, cruz. >> undecided? >> cruz. >> cruz. >> so i want to talk about a little confusion i'm having now. [ laughter ] you almost all said trump was going to win the primary. you also all said you like cruz a lot. so you're all south carolina voters so i'm confuseed why you're so high on cruz for the most part and yet you think trump is going to win. >> one thing that trump does is he has a very passionate crowd of people that follow him and i think the thing that's going against a lot of the other candidates is people are tired of the same old same old. they want somebody who is an outsider and he is that person. >> there also may be some people

who after you show them the vulgarities are not going to say on camera that they're going to vote for donald trump but may get into the voting booth and go "well, maybe we need to shake things up." >> a different place. >> right now, there's no doubt, mark halperin, donald trump has big problems with evangelicals in south carolina. we knew he would. and in the s.e.c. primary that's coming up. so he's going -- he's got work ahead of him. what about marco rubio? marco rubio actual it was like garbo talks yesterday. it was like marco talks. they had a presser on the plane and they are making an effort to have him less scripted, less in a bubble. >> well, you know, again, rubio can take some -- something away from the group when you see the whole focus group about ting t things people like about him. they like that he seems new and fresh. they like the fact that he seems knowledgeable. almost all of them were aware what happened in the new hampshire debate and they took

away from that the notion that he might be too scripted. that he might not be ready to be an authentic politician. i'll say on trufmp, this is nota poll, this is a focus group. the people there said they think trump is going to win. you said it right, he has his work cut without parts of the electorate and the challenge for rubio and bush and kasich and that was very interesting, too, the way they talked about john kasich, the challenge for those three establishment candidates is this group saw this as a competition between trump and cruz with strengths for both men and a real sense that those other guys aren't even relevant to what's going to happen here in terms of the ultimate result. >> willie, as you go to the deep south, i suspect talk of bush and rubio and kasich is going to fades even further into the mist and this is going to be trump-cruz. that's all i hear about in the deep south. >> i think jeb probably has a better shot than the other two because of the past down there and the money he has to spend but it's -- ted cruz said it

yesterday, mark, this is a two-man race. that's the way he's framing it anyway, donald trump and ted cruz and he likes that race. the polling held up for donald trump in new hampshire, the public polling ahead of the primary. do you suspect that's similar in south carolina or is the electorate so different that we can't be trusted, kind of the way iowa was. >> look, it's a much bigger electorate than in iowa and new hampshire combined. this is tens and tens of thousands of people. i think donald trump will be a strong candidate in this state. what ted cruz has going for him, similar to iowa, is both his campaign and his super pac have spent a lot of time on the ground here and you hear in the focus group, you heard it there in the clip we showed, people hearing about ted cruz at church, hearing about him from glenn beck and rush limbaugh and others on talk radio. there's an awareness of ted cruz and why they like him. donald trump has that, too. but, again, the problem for bush and rubio and kasich, they are indistinct figures for a lot of these folks here in this focus group and that's reflected in the wider electorate and all the

talk, we'll have a lot of talk between now and the primary, bush attacking kasich, kasich defending himself, rubio attacking bush, all that -- that contest to see if there's going to be an establishment candidate, as you guys just suggested, it may be kind of a mirage because trump and cruz right now are strong, but i'll say again, a lot of time between now and the primary and i wouldn't be surprised if two of the establishment guys got a little bit of track here and are able to come out of south carolina with an argument that they can go forward. >> just really quick, the one thing that i think cruz and trump will have to answer for in south carolina that they didn't in iowa and new hampshire is their military record. trump very early on in this campaign says he gets his information from the sunday shows. cruz has a mixed record at best on the military, on intelligence. and the other guys, the establishment folks, if they can make a case that they are better on military matters, they could get that sort of toe hold that mark halperin is talking about. let's get to other headlines

now. in financial news, most asian markets closed down today. this comes after u.s. fed reserve chair janet yellen acknowledged risks from market turmoil yesterday. u.s. dow futures are down 276 points right now. the department of justice will sue ferguson, missouri less than 24 hours after the city council made changes to an agreement with the federal government. at issue, cost to the city approaching $4 million to implement reforms like higher police salaries and better jail staffing. the deal was originally struck in the wake of the shooting death of unarmed teenager michael brown. in maryland today, flags will be flown at half-staff in honor of two sheriff's deputies killed in the line of duty yesterday. authorities say one of the deputies was shot while responding to a disturbance call at a panera bread location. a second deputy went after the gunman and was shot and killed. neither of the deputies have been identified. the suspect was killed later by responding officers. finally, a new report finds

11% of syria's population has been killed or injured since the syrian crisis began. 11%. >> oh, my gosh. >> according to the syrian center for policy research, there have been 470,000 deaths caused by the war, millions of syrians have fled the country and we're getting dramatic video from the turkish coast guard showing the rescue of one syrian refugee. the man was spotted clinging to the bow of a nearly sunken boat. according to the coast guard, 34 people had been on the vessel headed for greece. 27 of them died. >> we've said it before, we will be saying it again for a very long time. the united states and the west's refusal to engage in this crisis as it grew from 20,000 dead to 50,000 dead to 100,000 dead to 200,000 dead to now 11% of the population dead to a refugee crisis to 10,000 young children,

refugees, lost across europe, this is going to be a horrific black eye on this country and on the west. we have sat back and -- >> let it happen. >> and have let it happen because we were looking backward and we were fighting the last war. and the international community did not come together when they had a chance to come together and stop this. and, by the way, it's still time to stop this. it's still time to bring in international forces and bring stability to syria and bring those refugees home and start the cleanup operation and you know what we've been hearing for a year on this set, two years? it's hard. well, but, joe, it's hard. it's hard. we don't -- it's hard. well, you know what? and we've seen this, that 11% will be up to 15% of the population murdered. >> now getting killed by russians. the "new york times" has done extraordinary coverage on that. >> now getting killed by

russians. >> so crazy. >> if the united nations means anything and has any impact whatsoever, the united nations and other international organizations have to go in and at least create a safe zone to let these people come back home. still ahead on "morning joe," marco rubio meets the press after getting shellacked by chris christie for being too scripted and dodging reporters. plus, reverend al sharpton joins us a day after sitting down with bernie sanders in harlem as the race shifts to south carolina. both democratic campaigns seek to build up their bona fides with the african-american community and also hispanic leaders. plus as chelsea clinton heads to flint, michigan, to campaign for her mom, governor rick snyder of michigan joins us to talk about the latest with the water crisis in that city. also, two friends of "morning joe" dropped out of the race yesterday, carly fiorina and chris christie. we will talk about that.

>> absolutely. >> and assess their candidacies when we return. >> we'll be right back. you're driving through the woods

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we haven't stopped talking politics. two more republican candidates have left the field, both new jersey governor chris christie and carly fiorina are suspending their white house bids after poor showings in new hampshire. at up with time considered a possible front-runner, christie finished sixth there after staking his campaign on the state. christie's campaign announced in a statement to nbc news "i leave the race without an ounce of regret. i'm so proud of the campaign reran, the people that ran it with me and all those who gave us their support and confidence along the way." >> so there was a lot of -- and there's a lot of talk about chris christie yesterday, oh, he's mean, he went after poor marco, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. what people didn't get -- and i know you probably know the back story -- christie was having a great run, he was doing well in town hall meetings, his numbers were going up and then marco's

team started trashing him in ads and they just started running non-stop ads and then the dark money came in and they started trashing chris christie with dark money ads and so all of the positive he was doing one town hall meeting at a time just got completely obliterated and he jumped up, he was up at 7%, 8%, 9%, going higher, then, boom, back down to 4%. so it's -- i would hope that the people commenting on christie leaving the race saying he was mean to marco and that's why he lost, i would hope that they were ignorant and not actually lying to their readers and viewers because if you're too ignorant to know that's what happened in new hampshire, that it was marco's dirty money -- dark money, marco's dark money that got chris christie down to the 4% when he started attacking mar doe, you shouldn't be covering politics, you're lying to your people. >> and it started when he had his surge after he told the

story about addiction. i mean, they did sort of sniff his rise out -- >> what did they do? >> well, i mean, it's what you just described. incredibly negative direct voter contacts, i think what they call it. mail and what not. but i think that chris christie's legacy will be that for the duration of the campaign he said out loud what other people would only say privately. i think he gets the courage award and i think his take on marco rubio, he did on a stage something i have never seen in modern politics. >> i've never seen it and willie geist, i said at the time, he shook up this race in a way that nobody else did. the moment, if marco does not recover, will be seen every bit as historic as bentsen's moment with dan quayle our reagan's moment with jimmy carter. it was one of those moments that if you follow politics you'll remember it further the rest of your life. >> they'll be teaching in the history books. there was nobody better in town

halls than chris christie thinking on his feet, staying as long as he wanted to stay, as many questions as there were on the room. he shined in the debate stage but in the crowded field he couldn't break through. he put everything he had into it. an incredibly good politician. >> unfortunately, this won't have a happy ending because he is going back to a mess in new jersey and this happens when you leave no matter what party you're in, when you go around the country. my numbers cratered when i was running and i was governor so he's got a very unpleasant year and a half ahead of him. well, one person unlikely to miss chris christie is marco rubio. after admitting his campaign faltered in new hampshire, the senator yesterday the promised to mount a come back in the south, taking on rivals' critiques of not facing up to the press, he gaggled with reporters for about 40 minutes, fielding every question and he argued that he only did poorly in a fraction of the eight debates and dismissed comparisons to rick perry's "oops" moment. >> in seven of those debates

i -- if you want to believe the coverage of it, i did very well in those debates. in fact, in 7.95 debates i did very well. i had, you know, a bad incident at the beginning of this debate and it clouded everything else we talked about. i feel great about everything else we did but that one moment is going to capture the attention and, you know, it's on me. so we'll make sure that doesn't happen again. >> rick perry was unable to put his debate moment in 2011 behind him. how do you -- >> yeah, but i mean that was -- >> i know, it was worse but how does your campaign put that behind you? >> well, i mean, there's a big difference, he couldn't remember what he wanted to say, apparently i remembered it too well. >> nicolle, would you say rick perry's oops moment was worse than what happened the other night? >> no. and i think that rubio's damage was caused by his refusal to say what he said yesterday immediately following the debate, voters punish you more harshly for a gaffe if you refuse to acknowledge what the world over saw.

if you are standing there saying "i would have --" he said it on the sunday show, "i would have paid money to have the networks repeat that clip over and over because that's what i believe passionately." that sentence did him as much damage as repeating that line four times because it made it look like he couldn't do what he finally did yesterday which was admit a mistake. >> he's handled this great the last two days. >> right, after he lost. >> he was great right there, but the question is, is it too late now? >> he went after jeb bush, i thought this was really interesting. he wasn't just playing defense yesterday. he set his sights on jeb. take a look. >> the fact of the matter, is jeb has no foreign policy experience, none. he just has no foreign policy experience and he was governor a long time ago. the world has changed a lot in the last ten years and foreign policy has changed a lot in the last five years and no one on that stage has more experience or has shown better judgment or a better understanding of the national security threats before this country than i have. >> um -- >> howard dean? >> that's a ridiculous thing to say. he's on the foreign relations

committee so he assume he is has foreign relations experience. he does not. he knows nothing. i would prefer john kasich who literally has no foreign policy because john kasich has a thought process that i respect. i thought that was a fatuous statement. >> and listen, jeb bush did better than marco rubio in new hampshire, jeb bush has regained his footing and jeb bush has spent the time and sort of done the work that all governors do. >> you sit down with jeb bush and talk to him -- we sat down, i talked to him for 20, 30 minutes. 250 about 20 minutes in i thought -- i'll just say it, this is the one guy i talked to that can finish my sentences. i said "do you think right now that maybe it was a mistake --" and he goes "to say mubarak must go?" and i hadn't even got therein. and time and time again jeb knew what i was talking about. you ask most of these people about al sisi and mubarak,

they'll look at you with a glazed look in their eye. >> i think jeb bush is the right full occupier of that reaganism in foreign policy. and whether he prevails or not will say more about the party than jeb bush. but jeb bush has done the work, he understands the world in a nuanced manner. unfortunately for jeb bush we are not having a nuanced debate about foreign policy at this point in the campaign. we might have more of one in south carolina but the notion that jeb bush is sort of behind marco rubio on matters of foreign policy is ludicrous. >> this is staill a two-tier race. who's going to be the establishment candidate? i think bush is alive again. >> for sure. >> how much does george w. bush help in south carolina? i think a lot but you never know. >> if they make that specific argument about the military, i think among people that care about these issues, about military budget, about intelligence matters, cruz is badly wounded by his votes on intel, by his desperate appeal to peel off all rand paul's voters. >> yeah, but did you see that

focus group? >> well, evangelicals may have their priorities. but if your priority is the military and our strength around the world militarily speaking, i think cruz has vulnerabilities. >> i always found evangelicals were about as hawkish as anybody. >> i know. >> strong national defense is a value to them. >> but that is ted cruz's weak point with that crowd is that cruz did sort of lurch a little bit more towards a libertarian side of things when he first got into congress and supported a lot of things that people in south carolina don't agree with. all right, earlier we told you how big of a money day bernie sanders had after winning new hampshire. coming up, we'll look at who's raised the most money from pacs and how that will impact the race. the "new york times" nick confessore joins us. you're watching "morning joe."

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another candidate that got out of the race yesterday, another friend of the show, carly fiorina. >> i thought -- especially when she broke out during the debates i thought she was so impressive, so prepared and so underestimated, to use her word. when she came on this set she said "stop underestimating me."

and we did. >> she was tough. she was tough to mika, she was tough to me in all the right ways. she had a great run. debates, i saw her in new hampshire in the past fall and willie she was as good as anybody i saw on the campaign trail. she was good out there and they loved her. >> i remember watching a veriy early new hampshire candidate forum at st. anselm, she was very good. she won that one debate after winning the undercard debate then she won the big debate. she's very impressive. i think not to harp on it, i think she was treated unfairly in a lot of ways, she should have been on the stage the other night, she was the only one left off but she had a good run. >> i think the abc decision to keep her off the stage, which i just don't understand, i think it was the death nell for her campaign. >> and i think that she was going after trump before it was safe to do so she was the trail blazer in that category and for jeb bush's survival it's become

his imperative to go after trump. she was doing it when she was clawing her own way on it. she had everything to lose and nothing to gain. >> i still say this, if there was one person who made trump uncomfortable in the entire field it was carly fiorina. she was the one that could get under his skin on stage. >> she had great political instincts. what happened? the none? is that what it was? >> i don't know. i'll want to read the book about this because she was on an upward trajectory and then everything went quiet right when she was at her hottest. >> it's interesting. >> so i don't -- i'll tell you, that's kind of the great mystery of this campaign is what happened because she was on her ascent and then silence. >> i think the outsider lane got very crowded. she'd been put in that bracket. trump surged and for a while carson surged and i think she got crowded out of that lane at a time when fund-raising and organization was going to make or break these candidates. >> the final thing i'll say about her is from c pack, went

up and said "oh, lord, what is she doing up there?" at the end she was great. and carly fiorina outperformed every single time. up next, reverend al sharpton joins us a day after his meeting with bernie sanders. we'll talk about whether he or hillary clinton is in the best shape to win south carolina, a state whose demographics couldn't be more different than iowa and new hampshire. harold ford, jr., will join the discussion as well. stay with us. it took joel silverman years to become a master dog trainer. but only a few commands to master depositing checks at chase atms. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. (vo) what'scorn? dog food's first ingredient?

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the all-new audi q7 is here. ♪ then you might beformance laptogearcentric.e bff? right now, all pcs and printers are on sale! like this hp laptop for just $199.99! office depot officemax. gear up for great®. >> you had a great victory last night. >> we did. >> and you are now moving into nevada and south carolina. how do you intend -- because clearly new hampshire and iowa are mostly white states, if not lily white. how do you intend now to deal with a diverse populous in both south carolina and nevada? >> well, in a couple of ways. it comes down to what we believe and what we are fighting for

economically and what we're fighting for in terms of social justice and criminal justice. once the word gets out who i am, what we stand for, we're going to do just fine. >> all right, reverend al sharpton sat down with senator bernie sanders in harlem yesterday to discuss issues that matter to black americans. it's the same place the reverend met with president obama in 2007. >> why don't you think he ever invites us there. >> you don't invite us there. >> i don't have to invite mika to where she's a very regular customer. >> oh! >> and you, my dear friend, you -- >> i'll bring him. >> you are for familiar with the cuisine than anyone in this building. >> exactly! i am. >> also democratic congressman harold ford, jr. i saw you guys walking together in the streets on video and there was a crowd. he was received pretty well? >> yeah, he was very well

received. we talked about the walter scott shooting and others and i said let's have breakfast i got him and secretary clinton to do "politics nation" on sunday. they have to deal with immigration issue, with latinos in n nova scotia. you have to deal with a lot of issues in our community. one of the things i was saying with senator sanders is saying that dealing with income equality and wages is fine but what about the race element of that because even in that there's not a monolith. >> and what did he tell you? >> he did not address that directly. that's what i was pressing him

on. are you going to talk about affirmative action? are you going to talk about racial disparities in terms of promotion and access to capital and these are the things that i wanted to discuss with him and tuesday we're meeting with secretary clinton. >> there are some black leaders that have already jumped over to supporting him. i've heard you talk before about how you don't want the democrats to take you for granted, you don't want the democrats to take black voters for granted, other minorities for granted. i wonder if this might be an opportunity to shake things up and not just say, oh, the front-runner is hillary clinton, we've always supported clinton, our groups have always supported clinton, let's support hillary clinton. does sanders offer an opportunity for the democratic part y party, for several rights leaders to diversify a bit and not just mindlessly line up behind the same establishment democratic candidate? >> i do think he gives the

opportunity to make sure there's a real discussion here that the vote is earned and that there is no presumed holder of the vote because we have serious problems, from the economic conditions to flint michigan to across the board to education and clearly in policing and no one, especially, joe, you must remember, whoever wins this election, republican or democrat this will be the first time in american history we will see a white succeed a black president. civil rights leaders have a responsibility to press them on the issues before we get into who we like or who we know and that's what we've got to do. make them earn the vote. >> i get that. here's what naacp president ben jealous -- >> former president. >> former naacp president ben jealous had to say about the two candidates. >> for me as a movement person it comes down to the trio that

martin luther king, jr. referred to as the giant triplets of evil, racism, militarism, and greed and when you go by that standard what you see the bernie sanders has been very consistent in fighting racism. he's been very consistent in fighting stupid wars, whether it was vietnam or iraq. and he's been very con sis innocent fighting greed and when you take those with hillary it gets confusing. it just gets confusing. >> you look at the last two, especially militarism and greed, hillary clinton is much closer to being a neocon. bernie sanders is -- voted against the iraq war and most military wars and then greed, it's not a close call, is it? >> i think that that's the debate they're going to have to have and that's what we need to see. we're meeting with secretary clinton on tuesday and i think that this gives us an opportunity to really get down to the substance of the issue. the congressional black caucus is coming out today supporting

secretary clinton. they're going to give a different view. i think the responsibility of civil rights leadership is to say first of all, the people are the priority and what are both of you saying and what are your records behind that? not 50 years ago, not 30 yearsinyears ing ago, but today. >> when you look at bernie sanders' big picture, especially criminal justice reform and the connections he makes between those issues that ben jealous was talking about, isn't he strong on the issues that face african-americans because the things he wants to addressed a dresses those issues? >> well, the root of the criminal justice issue in our country is a lack of community opportunity. i know bernie sanders, i served with him in congress and i can tell you, i don't recall one time in congress where his voice was outspoken, where his voice was the loudest and most constructive around anything involving income inequality, particularly as it related to racial issues. i applaud him now for his efforts around criminal justice

reform and his call for -- his loud call in front of every audience for what happened in ferguson, for what's happening in every community across the country. two, the reverend talked about the record now. i listen to his message now and i don't hear -- put aside the race thing for a moment. i don't hear a growth message. i hear "here's how we make government take more from people who earn a lot." and perhaps we should do more of that. but when you talk about how you deal with income inequality, you have to grow the economy and grow wages. now if you want to hone down to african-americans, i give him great credit for talking about black unemployment rates, youth black unemployment rates and the kind of things that -- painting the picture, the accurate picture of what's happening in the country but i don't hear solutions, i hear rhetoric and i hear him talking about his ideology but i don't hear a list or enumeration of the kind of things we can do to redress or overturn those things. i think his big shortcoming around foreign policy is something that cannot be overlooked. the lack of experience, an unwillingness to engage or to

even surround himself with a group of advisors whether you agree with those advisors or not, it's unclear the kind of advice and approach he would take. >> one, two, three, boom. >> it's a hillary clinton answer. it's a long list of distractions. >> no, mika that's unfair. >> you started talking about foreign policy! we're asking about the african-american vote. >> first of all, i can't speak for 30 million americans but i'll try. i'll give it one effort. i don't know of any time when i was in the congress where bernie sanders was someone that african-americans in the congress or for that matter the african-american voters said "where's bernie sanders stand on this? what is his position?" i applaud what he's doing right now and the things he's saying. >> stay with us, we have to go to break. reverend al, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> this will be exciting. you guys are a big story on "politics nation." >> i want to go out to eat on saturday. >> we'll talk about it. i'm still mad at you because if you had run we wouldn't have been trumped all over america. >> you wouldn't have had this problem, would you?

>> scarborough/ford, i was waiting for the ticket. >> you wouldn't have had this problem. you wouldn't have had this problem. >> congratulations on those interview. >> governor rick snyder joins us. that will be fascinating. stick around, "morning joe" will be right back. don't let a cracked windshield ruin your plans. trust safelite. with safelite's exclusive "on my way text" you'll know exactly when we'll be there. giving you more time for what matters most. (team sing) ♪safelite repair, safelite replace.♪ at ally bank, no branches equals great rates.

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coming up at the top of the hour, jeb bush turns to south carolina, satisfied with a fourth-place finish in new hampshire but looking to put moments like these behind him. >> i can promise you the best

way to show respect outside of rebuilding our military to men and women in uniform is to fix that mess as fast as i can. that's it? [ applause ] thank you. they're kicking me out the door. they're kicking me out the door. >> governor, thank you very much for joining us today. i believe your schedule has a hard stop. [ laughter ] >> i like him. >> i like him. >> you know he's being a smart ass there but people don't know that about jeb. >> it's self-deprecating humor. >> it's like the "please clap" thing. >> and people obviously were -- those handlers or whoever was organizing the event was being incredibly pushy and they need to know how to do that with more grace. >> those are funny when you're 30 points ahead. plus, mark halperin's new focus group sheds light on the pitfalls donald trump could face

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bernie sandwich's message from the beginning. >> what? [ laughter ] what? >> listen, i've just got to say,

we're still exhausted. we're so tired. sandals, sandwiches? >> if you're going to say bernie sandals or bernie sandwiches, chris hadn't had anything to eat in like five hours. >> he needed a sandwich, i saw him that night. >> chris said there was someone literally walking past with a plate of food. bernie sandwiches. >> it is sleep deprivation, i swear. i came home yesterday and my kids -- i was literally watching -- i said i got home yesterday and my kids looked at me and they were like "what's wrong?" i was like, i haven't slept. welcome back to "morning joe," it's thursday, february 11, former congressman harold ford, jr., is still with us. are you still talking to me? >> are you still talking to me? >> i don't know. >> what have i done? >> political writer for the "new york times" nicholas confessore. >> you just don't like when people disagree with you. >> i couldn't keep up with your list. and former mccain senior campaign strategist and msnbc

political analyst steve thschmi is with us as well. big day yesterday in south carolina. donald trump had 5,000 people. he filed into an arena in pendleton to see the republican front-runner. >> he talked about his win in new hampshire and fired up supporters with nine days to go to the first in the south primary. >> i got so far in the last, like, couple days one hour's sleep because you know when you have victory, you don't need sleep, right? you go and you go on adrenaline. then what happens is the following day you say "maybe i do need sleep after all." so somebody said "oh, that's not a problem, mr. trump, we can can shell the or postpone it." i said "are you crazy? i would never. this is -- look, this is our group. we have something so special going on. you have a guy like bush who has his big fund -- [ boos ] terrible. i'll be honest.

the last thing we need is another bush. that i can tell you. [ cheers and applause ] that i can tell you. in the middle east, we've spent, if you add it all up, $2 trillion in iraq. we have nothing, by the way, in iraq. what do we have? nothing. we should have never been there, i said and i should get points for vision, but we should have never, ever, in a million years been there. all we did is knock out -- and then you're going to see bush come up and give his brother an ad. oh, great job, brother, great job. great job. if you get isa schlebbar like bush, you have people like jeb bush who spent more money like bush but he's at the bottom of the pack, is that what you want as president? seriously. these people, they're not going to win, one of the things i'm going to do, i have a chance of winning new york. i'm going to win michigan. i'm talking about cars all the

time. they just did a poll in michigan, i'm going to win michigan. michigan is not in play for a republican except for me. i'll win certain states and i think we'll win a lot of states that nobody as a regular republican -- and these guys are just regular republicans, ai, ai, ai. >> ai, ai, ai. well, mark halperin conducted another one of his focus groups with voters in south carolina and they talked a lot about the top two candidates. >> i want to talk about this first. >> okay, what do you make of it? he's having fun. >> everybody said -- mark mckinnon told me you have to actually go to a donald trump rally to get it. >> we did. >> i think john carl told me. i've heard from a lot of different people, until you go to a trump rally you don't understand what's going on. we went to a trump rally finally in manchester in a driving snowstorm and we were just absolutely stunned by what we

saw. so funny. both mika and i were not looking at trump, we were just staring up at the audience and looking around. and there were a lot of people who had just gotten off of work. >> intense. >> they had come straight from work through the snow to sit there and see him talk. i saw some working class guys that found a jacket to put on because they thought they needed to wear a jacket there. i saw younger people, i saw older people. it wasn't an ethnically diverse crowd. that's one thing that i did notice. but i will tell you it was -- as far as as income levels go, it was extraordinarily diverse from wealthy to middle-class to working class and it was -- >> and they were extremely engaged. shouting back, answering to him when he asked questions, finishing his sentences.

it was something. >> fascinating. steve schmidt, i don't know if you've been to a trump rally or not, but those people in that auditorium, the 4,000, to 5,000 people who were there through a driving snowstorm answered the question on tuesday night, will they get out and vote. >> and we found out a caucus is a caucus and you never know how polls will translate. >> no doubt about it. john mccain won the nomination in 2008. he never won a caucus state. romney won the caucus state, john mccain won all the primary states so as we look ahead, there's more primary states than caucus states and no person who goes on to win the nomination wins all of the states and no republican has ever won both iowa and new hampshire. so donald trump has won new hampshire, he's got a head of steam coming into south carolina, he's clearly the front-runner now for the

republican nomination. top two candidates donald trump and ted cruz. ted cruz has a problem in that he's strongest when he's able to get donald trump in a one on one race for but the foreseeable future you have at least jeb bush, john kasich hanging in the race and both have the rationale to be in the race. >> and jeb bush, john kasich, marco rubio, they're all attacking each other. >> absolutely. and you saw last night, i think it was interesting, we didn't know when we were talking in new hampshire the other day who would donald trump turn and attack. would he be fighting with ted cruz, which i think would be a mistake for him? or would he go after jeb bush? yesterday in the rally in south carolina he's pivoted and he's attacking jeb bush and that's the problemer strategic direction for his attack. when you look at the state of south carolina, jeb bush will be campaign i campaigning in charleston, in the coastal area, trying to run up the vote score in hoary

county between charleston to myrtle beach and you have a lot of coastal republicans, more moderate than up in greenville spartansburg area where ted cruz will go well so interest to see donald trump doing that. >> only thing is if you saw in those focus groups, which we'll show again, that mark halperin did, it seems like ted cruz is a formidable candidate in south carolina. >> certainly among the undecideds, and ted cruz has the best get out the vote operation. he has a much bigger sea of voters to draw from there. i expect ted cruz to do well in south carolina. maybe not catching trump but it will do well. so nick if you haven't been nominated for a pulitzer this year you should be for all of your stories about money and politics especially how a 180 families dominate the entire process. yet here we are, all of the energy in the campaign and the most important primary in the entire election cycle just went to two people that didn't get a dime from either one of those

families, from any of those families, didn't get a dime from wall street didn't get a dime from big contributors. do you think the voters are more tuned into citizens united the dark money in campaigns and saying we rebel, we want to vote for somebody who's not owned by big money? >> it sure seems like it. i think both trump and sanders, what they have done that is remarkable is they have taken this issue in the abstract does not fire people up and connected it to a kind of corruption, a parable of corruption and rigging economy and wall street and they've done it effectively. so that connects with things in their lives they are unhappy about. that's the magical ingredient. and they've done it for both republicans and democrats. there's a wave of revulsion against this money and they have these two messengers who are

great messenger peres icily on this topic. >> both vetters have jumped them down. >> super pac money, bernie sanders, zero dollars, donald trump, $1.8 million. bernie fresh off the 22-point win in new hampshire. senator sanders seeing a jaw-dropping rush of cash into his campaign. the camp reporting raising over $6 million in the first 24 hours after the polls close. the average donation in the first 18 hours after voting enden ended, $34. at one point tuesday night, the campaign reportedly processed 2,689 contributions in a single minute. to put the $6 million figure into perspective, sanders's largest 24-hour haul prior to winning new hampshire came in the wake of his near tie with clinton in the iowa caucuses when his campaign pulled in $3 million. what does that tell you? >> these are astounding numbers. he is the first presidential candidate in either party to

build a robust campaign for president entirely on small donors, that's an astonishing amount of money. he's behind clinton in total fund-raising but she has the traditional big-money network on top of her small donor operation. bernie sanders is all small money. he does no have a super pac set up by a former aide using these chinks in the armor of the campaign finance laws. it's all small donor dollars and he owes nothing to anybody except to those people. >> and we're looking at this chart. the person he's running against is the queen of big money. she's raised more money from -- more big money than anybody nelelse in the race and that's a powerful argument to make against her. >> one thing people didn't notice after this last quarter is that hillary clinton is now -- and her super pac have now raised more money than any other candidates and their super pacs, including jeb bush. i should say hillary clinton does have a small donor operation that improved a lot in

the last quarter. it's obscured by the fact that she has traditional big money coming in and a super pac which has $40 million coming in. >> i applaud bernie sanders for this. i think he and donald trump have shown two things, one that super pac doesn't matter as much and two even republicans that are with donald trump, who would have thought you could take the lead by taking on fox news. but back to sanders, the clinton campaign has to realize you can't dismiss the fact a guy is raising this kind of money from people giving $31, $32, and 2k34rr$33 apiece. he has been able to tie the disparates in your own life, the things you don't like in your own life, there's a direct tie to who's giving money and how much people are giving. the clinton campaign has to be attuned to that but develop an economic message that addresses that, understands that and talks to people ant how they can grow from there.

>> when we were at the bernie sanders rally the day before the election, i thought the most compelling argument he made was -- >> the walton? >> yeah, the walton family is richest family in america, who owns walmart. they are also some of the biggest recipients of corporate welfare in america. they have people working for them because they pay minimum wage who are on welfare right now and he actually tied together the contributions that they made to the corporate welfare benefits that they made to the people that they employed who were living under poverty to the benefits -- the financial benefits that the middle-class had to pay in taxes to make the rich richer and the sort of -- the final one-two punch of that was the fact that hillary clinton used to be on their board, if i'm not mistaken a.

>> and we have the new ad which is out just this morning from the bernie sanders campaign. take a look. >> our job is not to divide, our job is to bring people together. if we do not allow them divide us up by race, by sexual orientati orientation, by gender, by not allowing them to divide us up by whether or not we were born in america or whether we're immigrants, when we stand together as white, black, and hispanic and gay and straight and woman and man, when we stand together and demand this country works for all of us rather than the few, we will transform america and that is what this campaign is about. it's bringing people together. >> two of the best ads -- >> just so good. i'm sorry. >> two of the best political ads

i can remember, that and the america ad. >> and by the way, it almost seems like that simon and garfunkel audience was the people that you would see at bernie sanders rallies. they want the same thing. they're very -- i think you said it the best the other day, very pure. >> i don't think hillary clinton is against this. >> hillary clinton's ads are her through the ages and bernie sanders is always other people. >> a list of accomplishments. >> and i will tell you something else, comparing -- steve schmidt, comparing what bernie sanders is doing with his progressive liberal movement and what barack obama did in 2008 is completely different. barack obama was inward looking. we are the change that we are looking for, i will stop the tides from rising, i will this, i will that and it was like cult of personality that you saw with

barack obama. bernie sanders is lifting up the camera and he's pointing outward and you have to look quickly if you see bernie sanders in one of his ads. because it's literally all about the people. >> so funny you just used the words "cult of personality." i was thinking it right before you said it. barack obama's campaign in 2008 was a cult of personality campaign bernie sanders campaign here in 2016 is a cause. it's bringing people in it's about the people. and when you look at those ads and look at the terrible political advertising of this cycle for sure the biggest suckers in america are the people that donate big money to these super pacs. and the super pac ads have been wholly ineffective across the board in all of these campaigns. they've not moved one number not even a percent in any of the

campaigns. the ads are terrible but bernie sanders' campaign has tapped in on an advertising basis. these are deeply effective ads. they're moving, they're making a point and he is the campaign that has like a message that's concise and understandable with the exception of donald trump that people can tie into and get and i think hillary clinton has a big problem in that regard. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll get to halperin's eye-opening focus groups in just a second. why a lot of people there in south carolina think donald trump will win even if they prefer ted cruz. we'll be right back. woman: it's been a journey to get where i am. and i didn't get here alone. there were people who listened along the way. people who gave me options. kept me on track. and through it all, my retirement never got left behind. so today, i'm prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be.

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remotes you are back. the x1 voice remote is here. x1 customers get your voice remote by visiting xfinty.com/voiceremote. well, i am looking forwarded to a week of wall-to-wall coverage on fox news of the impressive third-place coverage that marco rubio got so i'm sure that's what we'll see on every show on fox today, the shockingly impressive thursday-place finish of cruz. >> all right, ted cruz in south carolina yesterday fresh off his third-place finish in new hampshire. mark halperin conducted another one of his focus groups, this

time with voters in south carolina. what did you find? >> these were ten republicans for the state looking for a and can date in the primary. some of them spoke about -- we talked about jeb bush, john kasich, talked about marco rubio. there were some silver linings there but the focus and what was one of the surprising things we found is these ten folks are focused very much on donald trump who they see as strong and ted cruz who they like a lot. so we're going to talk more in detail about some of these folks now. donald trump. >> he's very brave to have no political background and to jump out there and run for the highest office in our nation. >> he's espousing what the people are feeling. >> what what do you think of the way he's talked about his religious believes. >> i'm not sure he's such a religious person. >> i think he's relatively honest but i don't believe him on what he says about his religion. >> raise your hand if you disagree with carrie and dan and think mr. trump is a religious person. anybody disagree?

so you all agree he's not? you all said you didn't think he was as religious as he says he is. raise your hand if you're troubled by that. i want to show you one more clip of mr. trump. >> he gets the nomination, they're going to sue his [ bleep ] off. knock the [ bleep ] out of isis. and you can tell them to go [ bleep ] themselves. >> oh! >> oh, my goodness. >> wow. >> you all have a pretty strong reaction to this. is that something you'd consider disqualifying or just not your cup of tea. >> it's crass. >> it's just not professional. it's just -- >> it's not how you want your president of the united states to present. >> it's not that kind of an image. that's a bad image. >> this is who will be negotiating with other world leaders. >> jacob, do you think the aspects of his life and what we saw in the clip, are those the things that might hurt him more in south carolina than in iowa and new hampshire. >> the bible belt? oh, yeah -- >> we don't tolerate that. >> this is the belt buckle right here.

>> ted cruz? >> trustworthy. >> very good appeal. >> believable. >> i like that he knows the constitution inside and out. >> steadfast. >> likable. >> when he stands for something he's like a pit bull. >> very religious individual. >> actually, last week we talked at church. a lot of people had a very positive thing to say about him. >> so sandy's gotten positive information from church and folks there. who else has gotten positive information from him and where have you gotten it from? >> glenn beck show on the radio. >> i listen to glenn beck, too, and he's very much a cruz supporter and i've listened to him for years and i trust his opinion. >> who do you think is going to win the south carolina primary? >> i'm afraid trump. >> trump. >> trump. >> probably trump. >> trump. >> trump. >> unfortunately, i think trump. >> trump. >> if your only two choices in this this race were donald trump and ted cruz, who would you vote for? >> ted cruz. >> ted cruz. >> ted cruz. >> trump. >> cruz. >> cruz. >> undecided. >> cruz.

>> cruz. >> so now i want to talk about a little confusion i'm having now. you almost all said trump was going to one win the primary. you also all said you like cruz a lot. so you're all south carolina voters so i'm confuse wide you're so high on cruz for the most part yet you think trump is going to win. >> one thing that trump does is he has a very passionate crowd of people that follow him and i think the thing that's going against a lot of the other candidates is people are tired of the same old same old. they want somebody who is an outsider and he is that person. >> so as i said, lots more from this focus group tonight on "with all due respect" on what they think about kasich and rubio. but the dominant thing is you have these two candidates, trump and cruz. trump is strong in the most recent polling but this is the first chance to sample where people are after iowa and new hampshire but ted cruz is very well organized and donald trump has to worry about whether ted cruz can threaten him here and the way he beat him in iowa. >> wow. i like the way you said "y'all."

mark, what do you make of that answer that they all think trump is going to win but none of them -- they all support ted cruz. >> well, this is not a poll, a focus group, so it's more to hear the voices of undecided voters rather than to say this means trump is going to win. trump's strength, part of it, is they see him as a strong leader. what we've missed and what this focus group maybe teased out is ted cruz's campaign, ted cruz's focus group, super pac, rather, has spent a lot of time on the ground here organizing and in an electorate like that that's very religious, very conservative, if you have support on talk radio, as ted cruz does, if you have support in the churches as he does, that is maybe below the radar. trump as he did in new hampshire will need to bring in new people. people can show up here and vote in a way trump could take advantage of but he'll have to turn out new people.

ted cruz has a lot of support. i'll say again, for the focus of what's going on with bush, kasich and rubio, trump and cruz are really on the minds at least of these ten voters. let's hop over to a different part of south carolina. nbc's hallie jackson is there covering the cruz campaign. hallie, good to see you as always. let's talk about ted cruz and his strategy. he said effectively "this is a two man race between me and donald trump." and he says that guy, let's be honest, is not conservative. he might be fun, i get it, he's entertaining but he's not a conservative like you. >> that's the message he's been trying to push for weeks against donald trump. it's fascinating to hear that focus group, those south carolina voters talking about the difference between trump and cruz. you talk about the organization and what cruz hopes to do here. he's hoping to essentially replicate what he did successfully in iowa. his iowa state director is in south carolina, most of his iowa staff is now here. they're doing the door knocks, voter identification calls like

they did in iowa. south carolina is a different beast, though, you talk about the more religious, the more conservative group, it's more pock pocketed, more fragmented. it's not as homogenous as iowa when it comes to media markets and how you saturate your message there so you're seeing cruz deploy surrogates and staff to nine different areas to make a push. he's got a coalition of about 170 pastors hoping to turn out that evangelical vote for him so the strategy for him, getting the boots on the ground, will be key. the other part is taking it to donald trump. i'm told over the next couple weeks until the south carolina primary you're going to see more ads against trump, portraying exactly what you're talking about, that trump is not the conservative he says he is. that's how the cruz camp sees their strategy moving forward in south carolina because we can talk about the establishment lane all we want but trump and cruz will be a battle this south carolina and cruz is hoping to come out on top. >> not to mention cruz is bringing up the point "i'm the only candidate who's beaten donald trump:" >> exactly. >> hallie jackson, thanks so

much. >> so those pockets, does that make it, steve schmidt, trying to get a ground game as effective as it was in iowa for ted cruz, what are the challenge there is? >> look, south carolina is a different state than iowa. it's a primary state, not a caucus state and it's a much larger state by population about so ted cruz, as you saw in that piece, what he's trying to do is make this a one on one race against donald trump, make it a choice. donald trump does well when this is a strong leader election against the establishment in the republican party. what ted cruz is trying to do is make it an ideological election. who's the real conservative in the race? and donald trump's path to the nomination get interrupted if he winds up in a fight against ted cruz that's an ideological one that's a test of who's the real conservative. so it's really important for donald trump, for john kasich, for jeb bush, for those other candidates to linger in the race

to divide up the republican base and to keep this from becoming a two-person race. >> all right, steve, thank you. coming up, despite all the fire and brimstone, why rhetoric in america may not be going to hell after all. at least that's the argument in the new cover story for the "atlantic" magazine. we'll be joined by the article's author james fallows along with jeffrey sachs of the earth institute in just a moment. boy: once upon a time, there was a nice house that lived with a family.

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the reason all of us came out today is because we recognize our country's in crisis. we're bankrupting our kids and grand kids. our constitutional rights are under assault each and everyday and america has receded from leadership in the world. >> you know, you look, we can't beat isis. we can't beat anything. and that's what it is. we don't win with the military. we don't win in trade. we don't win in anything. >> our next guest disagrees with the grim assessment of the united states that we're hearing from many of the presidential candidatesen the campaign trail. joining us from washington, national correspondent for the "atlantic," james fallows. his cover story in the new issues of the "atlantic" details his travels with his wife across the u.s. and explains why what they saw makes him optimistic. he writes in part this: "as a whole, the country may seem to be going to hell, the sentiment is predictably and particularly

strong in a presidential election year like this one when the out party always has a reason to argue that things are bad and getting worse and plenty of objective indicators of trouble from stagnant median wages to drug epidemics in rural america to gun deaths inflicted by law enforcement officers and civilians support the dystopian case. but here's what i know about america that i didn't know when we started these travels. people people are discouraged by what they hear and read about america but the closer they are to the action at home, the better they like what they see." also with us on set, the director of the earth institute at columbia university, economist dr. jeffrey sachs. good to have you on board as well. >> thank you. >> james, mika and i have probably been around, given 400, 500 speeches on book tours, you name it, colleges. what we always say at the end is the more we're out, the more we realize how disconnected washington is from the rest of

america in the same sense that you got out there, too. that most americans are optimistic and most are not overly ideological. >> it's true. in the nature of things in the presidential election year we talk about presidential politics and if you ask people in south carolina or iowa or whatever what they think about national politics, they're likely to say the 16 things they don't like and are angry about. but if you ask them how things are going in their town in south carolina or iowa or central valley, california, these other couple dozen places we've been, they say "well, here in greenville, south carolina, the schools are getting better." "actually, here in sioux falls, south dakota, we're able to absorb these immigrants and refugees." so there's this disconnect between what people think is happening to america as a whole and how they feel about their own communities. >> >> at the same time, that positive outlook which appreciate, i do, i think we all

are proud to be americans, to use that phrase but wages, the way the middle-class are faring right now, there's a reason why bernie sanders' message is breaking through. things are not going well for a large swath of people. james? >> sure, that's true. every problem we have right now is a reflection of the first gilded age 100 plus years ago and people are aware of that and that's why, for example, we have a long report in mississippi where people are finding a way to attract higher-wage industrial jobs and connect them through community colleges so people who had been unemployed or on welfare are getting $60,000 and $70,000 a year jobs. all of the problems that everybody knows about america are true. the news i'm trying to convey is not that everything is great but that there is this resilient fiber in america where people aren't thinking of themselves as passive objects of big pressure wes know are going on but have been experimenting at a time when national politics is not

working, finding ways the local, regional and even state level to say, okay, how can we best position ourselves to get new opportunities here? >> i guess the question, dr. sachs, is is that resilient fiber just sort of like sometimes when news organizations are accused of only covering bad news we go and find some good news or it a pervading instinct that will prevail this in country? i would argue and i know my father has been saying on this this show since it started eight years ago that there's an immorality at the top that is rotting sort of the system and most people are going to end up quite frankly getting the short end of the stick. >> i think what james is pointing to is right, that americans do things, they move, they try to find solutions and they don't wait for washington. but on the other hand, there's a lot of grimness out there. there really is pessimism, there's fear and if you take the

train in the northeast corridor, you go through a lot of beaten down places of absolute rust and communities that have fallen apart. you read about flint that we can't even keep the water safe in a major american city. >> that's pretty bad. >> it's terrible. >> lights in detroit. >> people know the infrastructure is falling apart, you feel it everywhere. i think the fact that is distinctive about america is that people do things and this is a country where people take initiative, they set up businesses, they try to do new things but i don't think you can deny we're just not achieving the potential and you look at the economic growth, the productivity, the wages it's bad. it isn't good. >> jim, it's nick confessore. i'm curious if this is an argument in your mind for what republicans say about moving away from washington, about bringing the power of government back to the state and local level, taking ate away from

washington if the change and energy is at that level? >> i argue in the end of my piece if you compare this gilded age with the previous one, the late 1800s, it would be better, of course, if we had a functioning national government. as you travel around, you see these projects built during the wpa, how much of our public infrastructure came down from there, you see the farmland made productive by the farmers and government-funded research stations. it would be better if we had a functioning nation nag government and at some point we might again but we don't right now. the question is plan "b." and the plan "b," the news we're trying to convey is how much of this activity in the absence of any ability at the national level is happening in places you wouldn't expect. we saw the focus group from south carolina recently. i know that in their very town there's some inventive elementary schools a teaching engineering skills to poor kids and the state academy of arts

and sciences and the rest so that's the news that i would argue for a better national government but we don't have it now so it's interesting and people don't realize how much of this other activity is going on. >> james fallow, thank you so much. we'll read your cover story in the new issue of the "atlantic" magazine. dr. sach, stay with us, if you can? >> of course. up next, he's directing nearly $200 million of funding to flint in the wake of a giant drinking water crisis. michigan's governor rick snyder is just moments away. wishas quickly asuld bounit used to? neutrogena hydro boost water gel instantly quenches skin to keep it supple and hydrated day after day. formulated with hydrating hyaluronic acid which retains up to 1000 times its weight

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>> when people anywhere in america are held back by injustice, that demands action. >> all right, that was hillary clinton during her concession speech in new hampshire on tuesday night. and joining us from ann arbor, michigan, the governor of that state, rick snyder, is here to discuss his latest budget proposal for aid in the flint water crisis. governor? >> governor, we'll get to that in one second. i want you to if-to-respond to hillary clinton's charge that you "poisoned people to save money." >> that's not accurate. this was a terrible tragedy and it really goes to multiple levels of government. there were bureaucrats, state government that made mistakes in common sense and judgment, there were mistakes at the epa and the real question is these people worked for me at the state government so i am taking responsibility for their actions and i'm focussed in on fixing the problem. this is about solving this issue and we shouldn't put politics into this. we should be rallying together to say how do we make things better in flint?

that's my focusment that's why i'm proud of the budget i just announced yesterday. >> talk about what the money goes towards. >> sure. we had already done $9 million followed by a $28 million supplemental. yesterday i asked for $195 million more to do multiple areas to help the people of flint and it begins we essentially $37 million for water infrastructure, $15 million for food and nutrition. $63 million for health, social well, be issues like that. a $30 million water bill credit and a $50 million reserve fund and that's for flint. i listened to your last guest and he was talking about infrastructure. not only are we doing that for flint, i proposed $165 million to go in a state infrastructure fund because we need to be addressing flint but now is the time to act on this whole infrastructure issue across the state of michigan and i'm focused on that so the total amount we talked about yesterday was about 4$400 million devoted to flint and water infrastructure in some fashion.

>> you call this a tragedy across all levels of government. is tell us who failed, who was fired, what are the consequences for the people responsible for this? >> in terms of the state, the biggest failure point was the department of environmental quality and i've made significant actions there. we had civil servants, we had to go through the civil service process, fired people there, with respect to leadership, made changes there, the epa was part of this whole process. there were multiple levels of failure here. but my point is i'm not spending my time on looking back, the real question is the people of flint are suffering and i take that personally everyday and that's why i spend a lot of time there saying how do we make things better in terms of a plan for solutions and that begins by providing bottled water in filters short term. the next step is we've already started the process of giving a system to say how do we do enough tests the learn the system will be safe again so the water coming out of the tap is good?

longer term we are mapping the pipes, the infrastructure, which was missing in some respects to know where the lead pipes are and how to come up with a long-term replacement program so it's a series of actions that are short term, intermediate term and long term that address this issue and there are other important actions to help with the health care of children affected by this and other individuals and finally we need to strengthen the entire city of flint with jobs program, other things to bring back their economy. they've been a struggling place for many years but there are wonderful people there. let's do more to help flint be successful. it's flint, michigan, and i'm proud of. >> that willie, the epa regional director got fired for suppress ing the report. >> is there negligence here or something beyond -- i don't know, it seems to me that -- >> it's beyond negligence because people were screaming for years that the water is unsafe, that they're getting sick from it. but the fact of the matter is also that infrastructure is crumbling across this country. congress has not funded

infrastructure in a systematic way for decades now. fallows talked just a minute ago about great depression era we'r living on or the highway system which is a half century old. >> even look at manhattan. we have the tri-borrow bridge, the lincoln tunnel, everything was built in the '30s. >> 75 years ago, 80 years ago. >> it's outrageous. >> and you look at the numbers, we are not investing and we're not raising the funds to make the most basic investments in this country. >> governor snyder, it's willie geist. critics say even this $200 million is not enough to fix all the lead service lines in the city of flint. given the fact that the people in that city just don't trust you right now, shouldn't you just go in and fix out and swap out all the lead service pipes that go into flint, michigan? >> actually, that wouldn't be the best approach to start with and that's based on professor mark edwards' advice, the individual who led the charge to

identify this who is a hero in this case for bringing it up and bringing it to people's attention. we're following the steps he remtds. you can recoat the pipes, that's the process, we're not going to say they're safe until testing says they're safe. we have 400 sites we're beginning that testing very soon to start that process. the next step is people are throwing out numbers but we don't even know where all the lead pipes are, 5,000 lead service lines, 25,000 that are more, 25,000 that are unknown and we're saying in the contract the consulting agreement to start that process of mapping those all this week. the next step after that is to prioritize the replacement of pipes in a thoughtful fashion. one instance you should look at is washington, d.c. had a huge issue with lead in their water and they actually started digging up pipes too fast and actually made the problem worse in some cases by doing that. so this is where it shouldn't be people speculating, it should be based on science and engineering advice and information from experts, particularly outside of

government. >> governor, there are more than 8,600 children under the age of six in flint, michigan. what do you say to their parents today? is the water safe in flint, michigan right now? >> we've told them no. absolutely they should not be drinking unfiltered water out of the tap and we've made that clear going back to october. that's one of the tragedies of this is people having to go get water filters or bottled water in some fashion. this is not the quality of life people should have to deal with. that's why we want to get -- the short term fix is not a good fix, that's why we're starting the water testing programs to get it safe out of the tap and look into this infrastructure replacement and how to we take this beyond flint and that's why i want to make investments statewide to address this issue. >> with all due respect i feel the need to ask, it's sort of like we be we're talking about wall street. shouldn't somebody -- isn't there negligence to the point that maybe perhaps carries over into the legal realm here? shouldn't there be consequences

that go far beyond what you're talking about? when you talk about the numbers of children who are poisoned, shouldn't someone be going to jail? >> well, again, that process is going on and i appreciate the people. actually, i encourage people to do their investigations and it includes the u.s. attorney, cluls the michigan attorney general, all those efforts are going on and should go on and we should get lessons learned and if people did inappropriate things actions should be taken from a legal point of view. that absolutely needs to take place, no doubt about that, but they're doing their good work. my includes is given that they're doing their work shouldn't the rest of us be focused in on helping the people of flint. shouldn't that be our top priority while these investigations are going on. >> governor rick snyder, appreciate it. jeffrey sacks, history will judge governor snyder. >> yeah. >> i am not making a judgment one way or the other on him right now, but i want to follow up on what you've said.

washington, d.c. chokes off infrastructure money, chokes off spending money and doesn't follow up to make sure that -- that like, for instance, katrina was caused by man-made infrastructure disasters. this same thing here. >> look, we've been on a campaign against government now for 30 years. >> exactly. >> and the campaign against government even to the point of not fixing the roads, the bridges, the dams. every two or three years the civil engineers in this country say we have a $2 trillion gap. >> emergency. >> who listens? the governor ran on can you get taxes not on building infrastructure. that's the fact of all of this. >> look a lot of others. >> well, that's what's happened in this country. we stopped investing in the future. >> we will be right back with more "morning joe." car. to keep things unbiased, we removed all the logos. feels like a bmw. reminds me a little bit of like an audi. so, this car supports apple carplay. siri, open maps. she gets me. wow. it also has teen driver technology.

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you travel coach yourself and you always travel in the middle seat. why is that? is that pen nance for something? why travel in the middle seat, sir? >> because we couldn't get the aisle or the damn window, that's why. >> that's just -- that's going to be bernie's appeal. couldn't get the damn aisle. good morning, everyone, thursday, february 11th. we're back in new york. with us on set we have former communications director for president george w. bush, nicolle wallace, former government of vermont howard dean and in columbia, south carolina, managing editor of bloomberg politics mark halperin is with us as well. >> we have so ask nicolle how is your father? has he called you with gloating calls about trump, trump, trump?

>> do you know what, i will do dramatic reading. no, they're super heavy. super happy, yeah. >> really? >> yeah. yeah. now, my mother is -- has been a registered independent for many years, she went down to the republican party head quarters in reno, nevada, to register as a republican so she can caucus for donald trump in the november caucuses. >> so they're in and proud. >> howard dean, you've done this before. can you believe what happened in the other night with not just trump but also bernie sanders. >> he has the vermont connection. >> holding hillary to 38%. that's stunning. >> bernie is a talented politician and he is next door that helps -- >> does it help? >> i feel like i've heard both arguments. >> i go back as far as due caucus or actually he had muskie, the person next door has always won the new hampshire, caucus. john kerry. >> that's it. >> yeah. >> nothing else going on? >> nothing else? >> i'm sure it's a lot of other

things. >> he won by like 49 points. >> it wasn't 49. >> 29. >> howard, taken as a whole not just on the democratic side but also on the republican side this was like a primal scream against establishment politics. >> excuse me, i'm very sensitive to that term. >> i say it positively. >> so good. >> i say it in a positive way. >> i think that's right. we've talked about this. you've got actually -- and there's actually voting crossover between donald trump and sanders. >> so interesting. >> this is the american people are upset with the political establishment and upset with what's going on in washington and i think that's reflected in the new hampshire primary. i mean, my suspicion is it will settle down. i actually think the big winner on last -- or tuesday was jeb bush. >> really? >> yeah, i think he is alive and well and moving into stronger territory for him. you wouldn't think a fourth place finish in the caucus would get him that but i think it has.

because if rubio had come in ahead of bush i think that might have been the end of him but i don't think it is. >> we'll get to that, but first fresh off his 22 point victory in new hampshire bernie sanders will debate hillary clinton again tonight in milwaukee. meanwhile, sanders' victory in new hampshire sparked a jaw dropping influx of cash for his campaign. can you believe this? his camp reported raising over $6 million in the first 24 hours after the polls closed. the average donation in the first 18 hours after voting ended was $34. at one point on tuesday night the campaign reportedly processed 2,689 individual contributions in a single minute. >> i will tell you that's a lot of coffees. >> that's a lot. >> i will tell you how much better the tech is now than it was when we were doing this. >> my lord. >> we used to crash the sites all the time. >> when i say that's a lot of coffees you would go, you know,

right, cold coffees, you would have 30 people there, you would get $20 from each, thank you and like two hours later you would leave. here, look at those numbers. >> he said in his victory speech please help. that's my fundraising. and to put the $6 million figure in perspective sanders' largest 24-hour haul prior to winning new hampshire came in the wake of his near tie with clinton in the iowa caucuses when his campaign pulled in $3 million. as the democrats shift focus to south carolina and nevada and with them a much different set of demographics, bernie sanders has released this ad. >> our job is not to divide. our job it to bring people together. if we do not allow them to divide us up by race, by sexual orientation, by gender, by not allowing them to divide us up by whether or not we were born in america or whether we're

immigrants. we stand together. white, black, hispanic and gay and straight and woman and man. when we stand together and demand that this country works for all of us rather than the few, we will transform america and that is what this campaign is about. it's bringing people together. >> nicolle, hillary's campaign is awash in difficulties, they don't know who they are. >> yeah. >> they may not even know who is going to be running their campaign down the road. this is a campaign right now that has everything. it has absolutely everything going for it. a candidate that electrifies big crowds with a simple straightforward message, massive fundraising, small donors and they've put out the two best ads of this campaign, the america ad

and this ad and there's not a close second. >> they are the best two ads in sort of modern political warfare, right? they completely undercut their opponents' vulnerabilities and weaknesses in an entirely positive, uplifting and gorgeous manner. so it's very hard to do both those things, but they manage to do that. and i think -- i think it's a lot easier to run a presidential campaign for someone who sort of is an may get a revolution, you don't have to go out and poll test a message, you don't have to go out -- >> i don't think i would say this is easy what he's doing. >> it's easier to put together something like that, that was a line from a speech that i'm sure bernie was just riffing. that wasn't a written speech. that was bernie off the cuff on the stump. >> it is easy when you know what you believe and you don't fear saying what you believe. that's as easy as it gets. and that's when everything seems to work together and feed into each other and it's a lot easier for the ad people to put

something like that together. >> mark halperin there is no question that bernie sanders has everything going for him right now and there is no spinning what happened in new hampshire as anything other than a blow out win for him, but the clinton campaign still believes that the campaign begins in earnest now, heading to states where there is more diversity demographically, where there is a majority of the electorate on the democratic side in south carolina, it's african-american, they have huge leads in those categories. do you think the clinton campaign still should feel like it's in a good spot? >> jon meachum like to quotes theroux i like to quote haley barber, good gets better and bad gets best. sanders has a message. everything that could go wrong in a campaign is going wrong in the clinton campaign. there is distrust between the candidate and the staff, there's questions between fundraising, positive message, negative message. as a static analysis these next

two states nevada and south carolina should be better for her, but sanders has momentum and i think in those two states the best she can do is come out with victories that stabilize her campaign. the real battle will be in march where she will be at a financial deficit and fundamentally all the talk about bringing in new people or changing up the message, whatever, she's going to have to perform as a candidate. she's going to have to remind people why she was the favorite for so many people in the democratic party and it's hard to do that when you're on your back feet trying to deal with all the complaints and criticism. >> i see no evidence that their campaign is in disarray. i think that's washington talk. i do think momentum is with bernie. >> it's not washington hope. it's new hampshire talk, that's clinton talk, that's talk from everybody around the clintons, that's talk everywhere about you. >> no. no. >> i'm just telling you. >> everybody around the clintons is what wrecked her campaign the last time, i wouldn't pay any attention to any of those people. >> she said herself she needed to make some changes. >> you can be a republican and know that they're dialing around

town. >> we'll see what happens after south carolina and nevada. >> well, i think south carolina i think she's going to home territory there so she should do better there. >> she should do fine there. >> she is up by 40 points there, maybe she stabilizes it there. mark, let's go from the democratic side to the republican side. i remember several months back when you did the focus group in new hampshire it was eye opening, you have a new focus group in south carolina also equally eye opening and it speaks to the challenges that donald trump has going down to a state where he may be way away but there there is a lot of evangelicals for ted cruz to focus on. >> yeah, joe, we came down straight from new hampshire to try to get a sense ahead of where the current understanding is of what's going on in south carolina republicans. this was a group of undecided republicans who say they will vote in the primary. some were loosely attached to one or another candidate, but all of them said at least they still could change their mind. what was surprising maybe for

folks given the coverage out of new hampshire was a really sharp focus on two candidates, cruz and trump. in the case of donald trump they liked a lot about him, they thought he would do well but there were real concerns about some of the stylistic things that seem to play well in iowa and certainly new hampshire but may not play as well here in the bible belt. >> we will talk more in detail about some of these folks. donald trump. >> he is very brave to have no political background and to jump out there and run for the highest office in our nation. >> he's espousing what the people are feeling. >> what do you think of the way that he has talked about his religious beliefs? >> i'm not sure he is such a religious bern. >> i think he's relatively honest but i don't believe him on his -- what he says about his religion. >> raise your hand if you disagree with carrie and dan and think that mr. trump is a religious person? anybody disagree? so you all agree he is out. you all said you don't think he is as religious as you think he

is. raise your hand if you're troubled by that. >> i want to show you one more clip about donald trump. >> if he gets the nomination they're going to sue the slooep off. knock the [ bleep ] out of isis and you can tell them to go [ bleep ] themselves. >> wow. >> you all have a pretty strong reaction to this. is it something that you consider disqualifying or just not your cup of tea. >> it's crass. >> it's not professional. it's just -- >> it's now how you want your president of the united states to present. >> this is not that kind of a image. that is a bad image. >> this is who is going to be negotiating with other world leaders. >> do you think the aspects of his life and what we saw in the clip with those the things that might hurt him more in the south carolina than iowa and new hampshire. >> the bible belt. >> we don't tolerate that. >> this is the belt buckle right here. >> so a lot of strength for donald trump amongst this group, but some real concerns about some aspects you saw there, some

questions about whether he is presidential enough, but there is no doubt that he is a dominating figure along with ted cruz here. we asked questions about jeb bush and john kasich and marco rubio, all three of them will take away things from this focus group that will encourage them, but there is no doubt they are all seen more negatively by this group at least than trump and cruz. >> and, yeah, trump with all the problems he had with those evangelicals, they all said -- thought that he was going to win. maybe that's just because he won new hampshire. we talked about it before the new hampshire vote to expect ted cruz to surprise because he's got the ground game. ted cruz did surprise. and he's got a lot larger group to target, focus on and get out the vote. i mean, this is -- if trump is up by, let's say, 15 right now, this is going to be a close race between trump and cruz, right? >> justine mouse interest in ted cruz and a lot of the things that people in washington think

about ted cruz, that he's unlikable, too political, too self-interested, this group didn't think that at all. it was interesting to hear from them where they get their information about what they know and what they think about cruz. >> what about jeb bush? >> jeb bush, very negative, the same bush fatigue that john heilemann and i found in our focus groups in new hampshire and iowa. we showed them a clip about jeb bush talk being national security and they loved it when they saw bush talking about national security, they all said that was very strong, they were surprised, they see him largely the way donald trump has painted him as a weak person, but i think jeb bush can be encouraged this long time between now and the primary if people can see him particularly talking about security i think he maybe can change some minds here, but again there was that stubborn bush fatigue, whether they liked his father and brother or not this group did not want a third bush. >> let's listen to what the group had to say about ted cruz. take a look.

>> ted cruz. >> trustworthy. >> very good appeal. >> believable. >> i like that he knows the strugs inside and out. >> stead fast. >> likeable. >> when he stands for something he is like a pit bull. >> very religious individual. >> actually last week we talked at church. a lot of people had positive things to say about him. >> so sand gee has gotten positive information about him from church and folks there. who else has gotten positive information and where have you gotten it from? >> glenn beck show on the radio. >> i listen to glenn beck, too, and he is very much a cruz supporter. i've i listened to him for years and i trust his opinion. >> who do you think is going to win the south carolina primary. >> i'm afraid trump. >> trump, trump. >> probably trump. >> probably trump. trump. trump. unfortunately i think trump. trump. >> if your only two choices in this race were donald trump and ted cruz who would you vote for. >> ted cruz. ted cruz. ted cruz. >> cruz. cruz. cruz. >> undecided.

>> cruz. >> cruz. >> so now i want to try to talk about a little confusion i'm having now. you almost all said donald trump was going to win the primary you also all said you like cruz a lot so you are all south carolina voters so i'm confused why you are so high on cruz for the most part and yet you think trump is going to one. >> one thing trump does is he has a passionate crowd of people that follow him and i think the thing that's going against a lot of the other candidates is people are tired of the same old same old. they want somebody who is an outsider and he is that person. there also may be some people who after you show them the vulgarities are not going to say on camera that they're going to vote for donald trump but may get into the voting booth and go maybe we need to shake things up. >> it's a different race. >> right now, mark halperin, donald trump has big problems for evangelicals in south carolina. we knew he would. and in the sec primary that's

coming up. so he's got work ahead of him. what about marco rubio? marco rubio actually was sort of like gar bow talks yesterday, it was marco talks. he had a pressor on the plane and they are making an effort to have him less scripted, less in a bubble. >> well, you know, again, marco rubio can take some -- something away from the group when you see the whole focus group about the things that people have liked about him. they like that he seems new and fresh, they like the fact that he seems knowledgeable. almost all of them were quite aware ware of what happened in the new hampshire debate and took away from that the notion that he might be too scripted. that he might not be ready to be an authentic politician which they all want. i will say on trump, look, this is not a poll, this is a focus group and the people there, you know, you saw they all think trump is going to win. you said it just right, joe, he's got his work cut out of him with parts of this electorate. the challenge for rubio and bush and kasich and that was interesting, too, the way they

talked about john kasich, the challenge for those three establishment candidates is this group saw this as a competition between trump and cruz with strengths for both men and a real sense that those other guys aren't even relevant to what's going to happen here in terms of the ultimate result. still ahead on "morning joe" the number 5 was not part of marco rubio's three, two, one equation. the senator from florida has to reboot after a disappointing finish in new hampshire. and the republican field gets smaller as carly fiorina and chris christie get out of the race. we're going to be talking about the way the governor shook up the race in a way nobody else could. want to get their hands on. if they could ever catch you. how much prot18%?does your dog food have? 20? nutrient-dense purina one true instinct with real salmon and tuna

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♪ two more republican candidates have left the field

as joe mentioned, both new jersey governor chris christie and carly fiorina are suspending their white house bids after poor showings in new hampshire. at one time considered a possible front runner christie finished a disappointing sixth there after staking his campaign on the state. christie's campaign announced in a statement to nbc news i leave the race without an ounce of regret. i'm so proud of the campaign we ran, the people that ran it with me and all those who gave us their support and confidence along the way. >> so there was a lot of -- there was a lot of talk about chris christie yesterday, oh, he is mean, he went after poor marco, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. what people didn't get and i know you probably know the back story, christie actually was having a great run, he was doing well in town hall meetings, his numbers were going up and then marco's team started trashing him in ads and they just started running nonstop ads and then the dark money came in and they started trashing chris christie

with dark money ads and so all of the positive he was doing one town mall meeting at a time just got completely obliterated and he jumped up, he was up at seven, eight, 9, going higher, boom, back down to 4. so i would hope that the people commenting on christie leaving of the race saying he was mean to marco and that's why he lost, i would hope that they were ignorant and not actually lying to their readers and viewers because if you are too ignorant to know that's what happened in new hampshire, that it was marco's dirty money -- dark money, it was marco's dark money that got chris christie down to the 4% where he started attacking marco, then you shouldn't be covering politics. you're lying to your people. >> and it started when he had his surge after he told the story about addiction. i mean, they did sort of sniff his rise out. >> what did they do? >> well, it's what you just described, incredibly negative

direct voter contacts i think is what they call it, mail and whatnot. but i think that chris christie's legacy will be that for the duration of the campaign he said out loud what other people would only say privately. i mean, i think he gets the courage award and i think his take down of marco rubio, he did on a stage something i have never seen in modern politics. >> i have never seen it and willie geist said at the time he shook up this race in a way that nobody else did. the moment if marco does not recover will be seen every bit historic as benson's moment with dan quail or reagan's moment with jimmy carter. it was one of those moments that if you follow politics you will remember it for the rest of your life. >> they will be teaching it in history books. there was nobody better in town halls than chris christie thinking on his feet, staying as long as he wanted to stay, as many questions there were in the room. he always shined on the debate stage. but in the crowded field he couldn't break through for whatever reason. he put everything he had into

it. an incredibly good politician. >> this is not going to have a happy ending because he is going back to a mess in new jersey. this happens when you leave, no matter what party you are in, when you go around the country my numbers cratered when i was running when i was governor. sews' got an unpleasant year and a half ahead of him. >> one person who is unlikely to miss chris christie is marco rubio after admitting his campaign faltered in new hampshire the senator yesterday promised to mount a come back in the south. taking on rivals' critiques of not facing up to the press he gag ld with reporters for about 40 minutes, fielding every question and he argued that he only did poorly in a fraction of the eight debates and dismissed comparisons to rick perry's oops moment. >> in seven of those debates if you want to believe, you know, the coverage of it i did very well in knows debates. in fact, in 7.95 debates i did very well.

i had a bad incident at the beginning of this debate. i feel great about everything else we did in that debate but that one moment is going to capture the attention and it's on me. so we're going to make sure that doesn't happen again. >> rick perry was unable to put his debate moment in 2011 behind him. >> yeah, but that was -- >> i know, it was worse. but how does your campaign put that behind you? >> well, i mean, there is a big difference, he couldn't remember what he wanted to say, apparently i remembered it too well. >> nicolle, would you say rick perry's oops moment was worse than what happened the other night? >> no, and i think that rubio's damage was caused by his refusal to say what he said yesterday immediately following the debate. voters punish you more harshly for a gaffe if you refuse to acknowledge what the world over saw. if you are standing there saying, i would have -- he said it on the sunday show. i would have paid money to have the networks repeat that clip over and over because that's what i believe passionately.

that sentence did him as much sentence as repeating those -- that line four times because it made it look like he couldn't do what he finally did yesterday which was admit a mistake. >> he has handled this great the last two days. >> after he lost. >> he was great right there, but the question is is it too late now? >> he went after jeb bush, i thought this was really interesting. he wasn't just playing defense yesterday, he set his sights on jeb. take a look. >> the fact of the matter is jeb has no foreign policy experience. none. he just has no foreign policy experience and he was governor a long time ago. the world has changed a lot in the last ten years and foreign policy has changed a lot in the last five years and no one on that stage has more experience or has shown better judgment or understanding of the national security threats before this country than i have. >> howard dean. >> that is a ridiculous thing to say. he is on foreign relations committee so he assumes he has foreign relations experience. he does not. he knows nothing. i would prefer john kasich who literally has no foreign policy because john kasich has a

thought process that i respect. i thought that was a -- statement. coming you up on "morning joe" the super bowl obviously just ended but the news that the not going away, traumatic brain injury. it's in the headlines every day as more nfl greats are diagnosed we will talk to two experts and i'm going to ask them what can the nfl do between now and the start of the next season to protect the men who we cheer for every sunday. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back.

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if i had a son i'd love to have him play the game of football. i'd love to have him play the game of football because of the values you get. there's risk in life. there's risk to sitting on the couch. >> calvin johnson is respected to retire this year and walk away from millions of dollars at the age of 30. last year several players retired in their 20s including chris bore larchd in his early 20s. what does it say to you about the state of the nfl that so many players are walking away so young? >> well, i disagree with the premise of your question to start with. you're taking those issues and combining them. i think each individual player makes his own individual decision about how long they play the game. >> that was nfl commissioner roger goddell speaking about player safety on the friday before the super bowl. his comments came the same week that football great ken stain letter was tould to be cte, the

degenerative brain disease linked to repeated blows to the head. joining us now former white house policy and vice provost at the university of pennsylvania dr. emanuel and leading spine surgeon and author dr. dave campbell. and steve schmidt is back it us as well. >> you heard the commissioner, what do you take from his replarks? >> well, i'm a little nervous about his sort of denial about the seriousness of this. >> i'm very nervous. >> we don't know exactly how frequent it is because we don't have a real denominator looking at all players but we know it's serious, we have had 91 out of 94, i believe, football players whose brains have been tested that have had cte. we know repeated injuries isn't good for your head and probably pretty bad. and it leads to a lot of serious injury. i'm also worried about the young people, you know, the most valuable thing our kids have is their brain and we know that

tackling is a serious problem. 10% of kids who participate in high school football get concussions in a season. that's really outrageous. >> there are a few i know very well. dr. dave, i mean, this is sort of like last conversation we had it's the data, the data speaks for itself especially in a case like this. >> it does and so does the history. if we look back to boxers nearly 100 years ago we've known that they had a subtype of what we're seeing with football players. so this isn't new. we're just learning so much more about it and the concern going forward is how do we prevent it, how do we diagnose it and how do we treat it? >> it's not going to be prevented if roger goddell doesn't think that's happening. >> it is surprising and i looked at all of my boxing heroes from the '70s, ali, norton, frazier, it didn't end up well for any of them. >> no. it can't. >> by the way, you just underlined that. it can't. it's physically impossible.

and as football players get faster and bigger and the collisions get more violent you can't avoid this. it's going to happen. >> and i think part of the issue is we think we're going to prevent it by better helmets and this and that and that's probably not going to help because it's the repeated acceleration and deceleration. some people have suggested what we need to do is get rid of helmets like rugby and people would be more sensitive to what happens to their head instead of thinking they're protected. >> that's what rugby players say. >> i do think roger goddell has a point when he talks about the values that young men get from being on a football team. >> absolutely. no question. >> i would just ask you would you let -- what would you say to a parent at 10, 11, 12-year-old would you let their sons play football? >> i'm against it. >> talk to me. i've got a seven-year-old boy who wants to play football. >> i'm against it. i would redirect them to a sport that doesn't have contact. it's really about the brain contact. it does get a little more

complicated. i was a team doctor for a football team for 18 years. football is not going away. ways to mitigate the risk in kids, flag football, changing the rules which they're changing, having kids play contact football when they're old older. the big problem that we're going to hear going forward this snur owe plasticity where kids can recover from injuries and sprout new inner connections. older people can't do that. so an nfl player is different than a 15-year-old playing high school who is really big. >> looking at all the years later i think about the drills that we did in 98 degree weather in the panhandle of florida and humidity at 99%. there was one drill called bull in the rain. you had the ball in the middle, everybody around and they all had helmets and they would come in and get you, you would get knocked down, you would get up, somebody else would come in and

probably 20 like what we call bell ringers in about three minutes of a drill and that happened repeatedly and it's happening all over america today. >> so, look, you don't have to convince me. 1.1 million kids, boys, in high school play football, it's huge. i think david is right. but that doesn't mean that we should continue when it is unsafe to kids. and there are other sports. look, i think we do need physical activity for our kids. there's running, there's baseball, there are many sports that don't involve head trauma and i think we need to try to encourage that. >> cover of times magazine the alzheimer's pill, a radical new drug could change old age. >> and dr. zeke is mocking it. >> no, i'm not mocking it. look, i'm skeptical for the following reason and again it goes back to the data. we've had big drug companies in this space forever because this is a serious national problem, we do need a lot of research on this and the last six big trials have failed.

that doesn't mean this won't work, but it does mean we have to be very, very skeptical that we -- >> what is the best way? i come from a family my mother has advanced dementia, my aunt a brilliant woman just faded away terribly over a decade with dementia and i've got one aunt who is 86 who stayed active, she scares me. she out debates me all the time. i can't talk politics with her because she buries me in the ground. are there any things that people that have a history like me of family members with dementia can start doing in their 30s or 40s? >> we don't have a magic bullet here, but it is the usual things that we advise to everyone. physical activity does seem to be very helpful. better diet seems to be very helpful. but this is one where -- >> what about staying active mentally? >> it's very useful. actually all these games have not been shown to be positive but one of the most important

things is social interaction. i mean, the big front of our brain, it developed from monkeys is all about social interaction, interacting with people. that's the reason when people retire the mental dpungs goes down. >> diet, exercise, lifestyle, social connections, keeping your family member who is at risk for this illness of alzheimer's or dementia, keep them active and engaged. >> everyone, stay with us. up next, healthcare once again a campaign battle issue. hillary clinton claims bernie sanders wants to start over when it comes to obamacare while ted cruz says donald trump is just as liberal on healthcare as democrats. who is right? what's going on? we'll talk about it next. hey, need fast heartburn relief? try cool mint zantac. it releases a cooling sensation in your mouth and throat. zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. try cool mint zantac. no pill relieves heartburn faster.

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now, i have been criticized during this campaign for many, many things.

every single day. that's okay. that's all right. they're throwing everything at me except the kitchen sink, and i have the feeling that kitchen sink is coming pretty soon as well. but what our campaign is about is thinking big, not small. it's about saying that at a time whenever major country on earth guarantees healthcare to all of their people we should be doing the same in our great country. >> that was bernie sanders speaking after his victory in new hampshire primary -- in the new hampshire primary earlier this week. battle lines are being drawn on the issue of healthcare on both sides. bernie is being accused of wanting to completely get rid of it. is that true? >> of course not. what's interesting, zeke, that you now have the front runners

in the republican party and democratic party all talking about universal healthcare. donald trump was told to condemn the expansion of medicaid up in new hampshire, he refused to do it. >> i think it's very interesting that we do -- healthcare is back on the agenda, surprisingly enough, you thought that after obamacare it would sort of be left to us wonks who are tinkering with the system, but, you know, both bernie and dump really are strong for universal coverage. i'm heartened by it because i do think we need to reenergize and have some more reforms, especially about how we deliver care. i'm not so wild about bernie's plan in particular because i think he can't finance it and it's not the way to go. >> doctor, you've been on the front lines, your view may be a little different than zeke's in this respect. tell me how the affordable care act is working and what needs to be reformed. >> well, i do find that the importance of supplying everybody with some basic healthcare services is key, but

the affordable care act is not working well now. we've just seen increases in premiums come up across the board and what i find in practice is the deductibles and copays are getting so high that it's almost pricing out those that have insurance from having access. so to get healthcare you have to have access. if you don't have money for a copay or deductible you don't have access. >> who is getting priced out of the market? >> knows that are buying insurance through the affordable care act. >> because the deductibles -- >> premiums are going up. >> you can't have it. >> the copays are going up. >> zeke, you worked hard on this. what's happening here? is it the insurance companies? what is it? >> well, everyone likes to blame the insurance companies and i'm not going to go out and defend them a lot, but when healthcare inflation goes up you do have premiums go up, it's just a straight pass through. >> why is healthcare inflation going up when it was down at 2% before the affordable care act started? >> it's been down for the last five years or the last few years it's going up.

one is drug company drug costs those are gone up double digits for the last few years and that's a serious problem, you ask any insurer that's been a major concern. the other is we're still in the process of rearranging and trying to reduce expensive use of -- or use of expensive areas of care like the hospital. if we can reduce that and, again, we are in the middle of a ten-year process, that's, i think, going to be critical. >> let me ask you quickly donald trump actually a policy that stuck out at me is when he was going after the drug companies saying -- he said if i'm president i am going to negotiate a much tougher deal with big pharma. >> yeah, and i think that shows you how bad owner they are and how much people do want these drug costs under control because they're paying a lot. ilg do think we will have a big rearrangement of how we will pay for drugs. we have to pay for drugs that do good things and not hundreds of thousands for drugs that don't add a lot. >> how about some prevention

efforts? if we can prevent the need for those drugs in the first place with diet, exercise, lifestyle choices americans will be better. still ahead u.s. stock futures are down more than 250 points right now. did yesterday's comments from fed chair janet yellen scare investors? we will go life to the u.s. stock exchange. >> ari wants us to talk about the worms he's eating. >> no. sfx: car driving. ♪ sfx: engine revving. ♪ ♪ sfx: car engine. sfx: car speeding away. sfx: car engine. ♪ but i've managed.e crohn's disease is tough, except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing.

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it's time now for business before the bell with cnbc's air

ra eisen. futures down hundreds this morning. >> unlike previous periods of volatility it's not a single factor that is a driver, it is a confluence of world worries. i will hit some of the biggest concerns for you right now. china, it is slowing down, the question how slow, that's driving a lot of the anxiety. there are some new kwebs now about the health of the european banking system. >> oh, boy. >> just how healthy are they relative to the u.s. banking system. oil still plunging. i've talked about that a lot here, we saw $26 a barrel today. and recession worries are heating up even for the united states because of what's happening globally and just how much that's going to spill over and hurt our economy. it's something that the fed chairman janet yellen talked about on capitol hill yesterday. she said she sees those fears in the markets and we are vulnerab vulnerable. she will be taking it to the hill again today speaking before the senate finance committee. everyone will be looking to her to see if she can shed light on this global market turmoil.

the other factor i would suggest is that there's some concern that central bankers like janet yellen, like mario draghi in europe, some of these powerful central bankers just don't have the power that they did over the last few years of the bull market. usually they step into the rescue, they calm things down, they add some stimulus. there are some worries they are out of bullets and they just don't pack the same punch that we had and that's really adding to the overall gloom that we're seeing in the markets kind of throwing a tantrum again today. >> in summation if you were on twitter here is your hashta hashtag, #run for the hills. >> sara, thank you so much. we've heard this about oil for some time, china for some time. europe for some time. we may have a tough economic downturn, something steve rattner has started to worry about the past couple weeks. worldwide a global recession. >> how that plays into the political situation. >> doesn't that just feed into -- >> we have an election that's being fueled by anxiety, anxiety about what's happening globally,

internationally with isis, the terror threat, the chaos in the world. global economic turn down in the context of this race, you know, it's going to be a volatile general election season. >> it feeds auto into it. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? i think it landed last tuesday. one second it's there. then, woosh, it's gone. i swear i saw it swallow seven people. seven. i just wish one of those people could have been mrs. johnson. [dog bark] trust me, we're dealing with a higher intelligence here. ♪ the all-new audi q7 is here. ♪

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last night the name on everyone's lips was bernie sanders, unless you're chris

haze. >> you see that play out in different ways in both trump's particularly closing message and railing against pharmaceutical companies and the like and bernie sandwiches -- >> that's right. that's right. bernie sandwiches, a name everyone can get behind because he is not a member of the old boy's club. he fights the rich guys on behalf of the po boys. >> all right. bernie sandwiches. chris said actually at the time -- he's great -- he said at the time there were sandwiches in front of him. >> no one has any idea how hungry you get when you're there for seven hours and there is no food. >> exactly. >> what did you learn today? >> what i did i learn today? in the papers is the degree to which this fbi investigation of

hillary clinton, the aids who did not have clearances who had classified material on the e-mails, the vice is tightening on this and this all is talked about in the political coverage as republicans versus democrats and it's wrong. these are very serious issues, the intelligence community is upset about it, the justice department is upset about it. this is a real and serious issue that we don't talk about enough in the context of a major candidate for one of the two parties under a real investigative threat and real possibilities of indictment. >> wow. >> mika, what did you learn? >> i learned i think there's going to a real fair look among the democrats as to whose policies consistently over the years really address the concerns of african-americans and i think we're going to have a really good debate on that. >> i've learned more and more people are now saying what you've been saying for a month. if hillary clinton wants a shot at slowing down bernie's momentum she needs to start looking long and hard at

elizabeth warn. i heard that yesterday from mark and john heilemann and i think you are going to hear that a lot more. >> potential running mate. you never know. she may have to do it. i don't know how she gets around this middle class -- >> if it's way too early it's "morning joe." still around because steve kornacki is going to be talking about bernie sandwiches and much more on "msnbc live." >> we will be right back. good thursday morning to you. right now on the place for politics the number of candidates is down, but the attacks are up. hillary clinton will have a big chance to right the ship tonight if she wants to be the democratic nominee. she is meeting a revitalized bernie sanders in milwaukee for their sixth debate. meantime in south carolina republicans are ready to