the donald trump phenomenon rolls on. >> believe me, that's why i'm going to be elected president. >> the exchanges have been heated. >> if you disenfranchise those people, i think you'd have riots. >> that's an incendiary comment. >> that is not leadership. that is political arson. >> donald trump is literally inciting violence with his supporters. >> now, they've become personal. >> donald, you're a sniveling coward. leave heidi the hell alone. >> i'm responding to what he does. i didn't start this, he did. >> is the damage irreparable? or can the discord among the republicans be overcome? >> we're going to be smart, we're going to be vigilant, we're going to be proud of our country again. >> this is an msnbc exclusive town hall with donald trump. from the university of wisconsin green bay, here now, chris matthews. >> good evening. and welcome to this exclusive town hall.

tonight, for a full hour, our guest is the front-runner for the republican presidential nomination, donald trump. [ cheers and applause ] [ cheers and applause ] >> thank you. thank you. thank you. >> interesting situation here. we're up here in green bay. >> right. >> and my calculations say if you're going to win the general election, you got to win up here. states like wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, nfl places. >> sure. >> right? >> i think, you know, certainly it'd be helpful. we're leading by a lot. in terms of votes, we're millions of votes up on cruz and millions of votes up on kasich. but we'll have to see what we do. i mean, all you can do is do your best, right, folks? we do our best.

>> let's talk about -- [ applause ] before you get to the general election, you got to win the republican nomination. what is -- where's your leverage there? you've talked about north asia, north atlantic treaty, the middle east, mexico, the ability to walk, the ability to say no more trade, the ability to say we're not going to buy your oil. it's always leverage, it's always i'm going to walk. what is your leverage are republican bosses when you get to cleveland when they try to keep you from winning the nomination on ballot? >> first, the voters. i have millions more votes than anybody else. it's not even close. you know, you've reported on it. we're setting records in terms of republican primaries. if you look at new hampshire, if you look at south carolina, no matter where you look, we're setting records. that's my leverage. and these are people that are really -- they really like donald trump. they really like what i'm saying. people that -- we're going to make america great again.

that's what it is and what my leverage is. now, without me, they lose millions -- i think millions of people and nobody's going to have a chance. i will beat hillary clinton. and i haven't started that process yet. i have two people left. we started off with actually 18 people. >> right. >> and now there's two left. >> you're counting jim gilmore. >> i'm counting jim -- sort of. >> let me ask you about the steps you get through. cleveland is going to be in july. if you go in there short of -- if you have 1,237, you got it. >> right. >> if you come in short and they try something on the first ballot -- now, i'm watching, listening. mitt romney is up to something. he wants it. you can tell he wants it. paul ryan is making himself clearly available with the statement last week. what are you going to do if they deny you the first ballot victory? >> we're going to see what happens. i can say this, chris, we're up above everybody else. we're hundreds of delegates above cruz. we just, you probably heard last night, missouri was just certified so i won missouri in addition to everything else. we're way, way up in votes. way, way up. if we're a little bit short, i think it's a very unfair process. let me just explain -- >> what's the jimmy, six inches, two feet?

>> let me explain. normally you're talking about running and have 17 people, 18 people, again, including gilmore. so we have 18 people and during a long period of time, we had 14 people, 13 people, 12 people. you know, in primaries. we had a lot of people in the primaries. so i'd get 25%, 28%. those are phenomenal numbers when you have that many people running. so in those early states, which i won, but you can't get 50% when you have that many people running, there's never been so many people running. i'm going to come very close to the 1,237. i think i'm going to beat the 1,237. we're doing phenomenally in new york. you probably saw the poll that came out in new york, emerson college which is -- >> it's all about you not getting to 1,237. you going to be teddy roosevelt? you like teddy roosevelt. in 1912 he didn't get the nomination, he walked out, split the pear, beat the party in november and lost it to wilson. >> if they're going to be fair, they got to be very happy. how can they give up millions of

people that really feel disenfranchised -- >> they don't like you. >> they're going to lose then you're going to have four supreme court justices they don't like. >> you said last night on cnn you're not going to stick to the pledge to back the nominee. you sticking to that? >> i have not been treated properly. people understand. i don't want an endorsement from somebody that doesn't feel like oh, i love trump, if he wins, he's going to be the guy. i don't want that endorsement. i'm not looking for that endorsement, so when they ask me about cruz and the endorsement, i say no, no, put no pressure on cruz. tell him he doesn't have to endorse me. please don't endorse me. >> right. >> it doesn't matter. the endorsements don't mean very much. i have great endorsements. i have some phenomenal endorsements. i have senator sessions, jeff sessions endorse me. everybody thought he was going to endorse cruz. he endorsed me because he knows i'm much better on security. i'm better on a lot of things. >> i watched you, mr. trump, on every issue. you always talk about leverage, always talk we can walk away from a deal with the saudis on oil, walk away from the chinese, don't have to buy their stuff

anymore, don't have to pay for our troops in europe if they don't want to do it. you say your leverage is the ability to walk. do you have the ability to walk in the republican nomination, can you walk? >> i can always do that. i can always walk. i don't want to let people down. i have millions of people more than cruz has. i have millions of people -- now, the system is not a good system. when you take louisiana, i went to louisiana, i campaigned there. i won the state. now the numbers come out and i have less delegates than cruz. that's not the american way. i went out as you know, i won louisiana. big victory. everything great. but because of arcane rules and a lot of nonsense, frankly, i get -- i end up getting a few less delegates than cruz. that's not the way the system's supposed to work. it's not the way it's supposed to work. >> 3/5 of the people we got at nbc says you're right, if you get the most votes you should be the nominee. i'm trying to figure out what your alternative is if you don't

get it. >> i don't want to tell you as much as i respect you. i did an interview with chris at the university of pennsylvania many, many years ago. >> that stuff doesn't work with me. keep on -- >> is that a true thing? >> it is true. you were a celebrity even then. >> i was a celebrity. >> let's talk about something. >> i like your question of leverage. my leverage is the voters, chris, just to end it. i have millions more votes than anyone else. >> was teddy roosevelt right to walk? >> studied well, i think possibly he was, but boy, did that cause a problem. >> sure did. let me ask you about this thing the other day with your campaign manager. do you think you got to handle it differently from the start with maybe an apology to the young woman reporter? something like that, maybe -- >> yeah. >> -- give her an interview? something to deescalate the issue and show respect for her? >> i don't think so. i think if he called up to apologize, i think you'd be in the exact same place and people that have seen that tape are going, give me a break, you have to be kidding. >> but there was contact. >> what's contact? i mean, there's contact every

time -- >> that's what this law says. unwanted touching, unwanted -- >> yeah, she -- excuse me, she grabbed my arm twice. you see the picture of me looking like who is this person? and getting her off me. >> what do you make of the bruises on the picture? >> i don't know who created those bruises. i really don't know. i mean, you know, two days later she comes in and said she had some bruises. >> this argument infuriates her and a lot of women because you're not showing belief in her credibility. >> i just gave -- >> why would show make up a story about bruises? why would anybody do that? >> 15 minutes away in front of a very large crowd, i gave a speech and we talked about that. i said, who saw the tape? and everybody raised -- almost a, a lot of people raised their hand, three-quarters raised their hand. big audience. i said, who thinks he did something really wrong? i said, stand up, please. or raise your hand if you don't want to stand up. not one person in the room. your cameras were there. not one person in the room raised their hand. we're getting -- it's out of control. political correctness, whatever you want to call it. it's totally -- >> what's the right approach, though, if you accidentally bump into somebody, accidentally trip them, you say i'm sorry. don't you say -- some apology

and respect for the other person? >> i think that's fine. >> wouldn't that have been appropriate there? >> i'm not sure he maybe didn't say it there. what he was doing, in my opinion, just in watching the tape because nobody remembers the incident because it was so minor, it's not like -- you know -- >> jupiter police remember it. >> excuse me. i think that they are -- what they've done is, i think, outrageous. they're destroying a very good person. he's a good person. forget about politics. he's a good person with a wonderful family, four beautiful kids. and they're destroying that man over nothing. you take a look at that tape and she's grabbing me. now, maybe i should press charges against her. she's not supposed to be grabbing me. she's touching me. she's grabbing my arm. and i'm going like this. i'm saying, who is it? you know, the news conference was over. she wasn't supposed to be asking questions. she pushed her way through, came

through the secret service, grabs my arm, and i think maybe this was just -- and let me tell you something, just so you understand, if she went down, she made the statement that she went down, or essentially almost went down. >> almost went down. >> nothing -- there was nothing there. she didn't even have a -- if i give you a little shot on the arm you're going to go, ow. i'm a strong guy. you're going to go oh. you're going to have some sort of a facial -- she didn't have any facial -- >> she did say in real time that it hurt. >> when was the realtime? when did they record that. >> you're skeptical about her. >> i'm a very skeptical person about her, yes. >> why don't you have any sympathy for her? >> i don't think that -- look. >> first of all, she was doing her job. >> it was my tape. i looked at that tape and we have heads being cut off in all over the world, frankly, but we have people's heads being cut off in the middle east. people's heads being cut off. we have people drowning in steel cages. here's a woman, and it didn't even look like there was physical touch. that was almost like it was just blocking her away from me. and he's supposed to be a criminal? for that? >> yeah, but western society claims that we're better with women. >> look, nobody respects women

more than i do. that i can tell you. >> you don't respect her, though. >> nobody -- well, you know, she's somebody that -- yeah, i would say i don't have great respect for her. i think for her to do what she did to this man over what he did is outrageous. it's outrageous. >> she quit her job over it. she must believe in her story. >> did she quit or get fired? >> i don't know. i think she quit. >> you do? i think maybe the other way. you'll find out. we'll find out in court. >> let's talk about the -- >> we'll find out in court. the easiest thing for me to do, you're fired. that's so easy. that's a very easy -- everybody's happy. [ applause ] everybody's happy. >> there's a middle -- >> i can't do that because i'm loyal to people. and you know, when they went to cruz and kasich, oh, you should fire him, they didn't even see the tape i don't think. you should fire him, you should fire him. i don't do that. if somebody is being, really, i just thought it was a very unfair situation. this is not good for me. okay? >> how do you think women react when they see this? the numbers aren't good. >> i think a lot of women would

say, give me a break, i don't understand why. i mean, the numbers aren't good. the numbers were good. the numbers aren't as good with women as they were. but nobody respects women more than i do. >> let's talk about isis. it's the number one concern of a lot of people since last week. >> right. >> how do you beat people? when we fought the germans or italians, you know, the army puts their hands up at the end because they know it's hopeful. >> right. uniforms. >> how do you fight people who wrap themselves in dynamite, they get up, brush their teeth in the morning, shave i suppose in some cases. they go off to the airport with the idea of blowing themselves up, killing themselves that day, that morning. how do you beat an army like that? this gets down to something that we haven't dealt with before in our history. how do we beat that kind of mentality? >> we have to be so tough and so vigilant and do things, frankly, we've never done before. >> they want to die for their cause. >> maybe they do and some of them do and, you know, a lot of people are trying to figure out

why they do this, how they do this. >> they're recruited. >> are they drugged out? >> they're recruited. >> are they drugged out when they do it? what's going on when they walk in and blow themselves up? are they all drugged out? is somebody drugging them? there's a lot of things going on. when i talked about we have to be very careful because we have people coming into this country, it's a very bad situation. we have thousands and thousands of people coming into our country, we have no idea where they come from, who they are. >> oftentimes, it's the second or first generation. it's not the first wave of immigrants. it's -- these people in belgium had been living there, born there, they're belgians. how do with you deal with that situation? >> look at the guys in boston. >> they were here. what do you do -- >> came here as young kids and became radicalized. >> does banning entry into the country temporarily encourage them to be on our side against the terrorists or encourage them to be on the other side? >> banning them, i take a lot of heat for it. chris, there's something going on. >> 1.6 billion muslims in the world getting a message from donald trump leading the fight for the republican nomination for president saying, stay out

of my country. how does that encourage them to fight isis? how does that encourage them to fight the bad guys? >> they have a problem, too. they have a big problem. i have been called -- saying what you are doing is a great thing, not a bad thing. the two -- >> are any muslims telling you that? >> the san bernardino -- i have, actually, believe it or not, i have a lot of friends that are muslim and call me. in most cases, they're very rich muslim. >> they get in the country? >> they'll come in. >> how do you let them in? >> they'll have exceptions. wait. chris, chris, with the san bernardino situation -- >> right. >> -- many people saw that apartment with bombs all over the apartment. >> yeah, i agree with that. >> bombs on tables. >> see something, say something. >> not one person, with all the people -- they said it's racial profiling, that's why they didn't call. you know why they said that? some lawyer said, you saw this, you better come up with a good excuse. they said it's racial profiling. a lot of people saw what was going on in that apartment. not one muslim. >> i'm with you on this. of course i'm with you. that's not the question. >> why didn't they report them? >> you're saying ban -- >> chris, why didn't they report them? >> you're saying ban them from entering the country.

they get the message. everyone in the world. anywhere there's muslims, you know, they know you don't want them. they get the message. they're a little more ill disposed to fight isis, a little bit more after that once they say the americans don't even like us. >> maybe they'll be more disposed to fight isis. maybe they'll say we want to come back into america, we have to solve this problem. >> cruz is pushing, he wants patrol cars riding in neighborhoods thinks there's muslim people living there, looking in the windows for plotting. it's an insane idea. they're not street criminals. they're plotting bombings, if they are. we're going to go up and down the streets. that will make them more militant against us. >> he's toughening up his stance. >> what do you think of his stance? patrol cars. >> we have to look at the mosques, be extremely careful. >> we're making enemies here. >> we're making enemies by doing nothing. we're knocking down world trade centers, we're shooting planes into the pentagon. >> yeah. >> probably the other plane was going toward the white house,

had very brave people. what are we going to do, sit back and say we want to be nice to everybody? we can't be so nice. >> sometimes we create more trouble than we went into. do you think it was smart to go into iraq? was it smart to put our troops in the holy land of mecca? >> i thought it was one of the worst decisions in the history of our country. >> are you more hawkish or less hawkish than hillary? >> i'm probably more intelligent than hillary. >> answer the question. are you more likely to engage militarily than hillary? >> i would never want to make a blanket statement like that. i would have never gone into iraq. i said from a very early day, you saw that from the earliest tape, i don't want to go into iraq. i was a real estate guy, a business guy. nobody cared that much. there were articles a long time ago, i said you're gong to destabilized middle east. that happened. when we got out, we set a date which was terrible, we should have left some soldiers back. i always said, take the oil. you know who has the oil now? >> you need ground troops to do that. you need ground troops to take

the oil. >> i said take the oil. >> ground troops and isis. >> i said keep the oil. we already had the troops there. when we were leaving, i said don't leave, keep the oil. >> okay. your most controversial suggestion was don't take nuclear weapons -- you may have been hooked into this by -- >> don't take what? >> nuclear weapons off the table. i have been trying to think how we could conceivably use a nuclear weapon in the middle east or europe in fighting isis. why put it on the table, leave it on the table if you can't imagine where to use it? >> i didn't say don't take it. i said i would be very, very slow and hesitant to pull that trigger. >> why did you say i don't want to talk about it? presidents don't talk about use of nuclear weapons. >> we were talking about nato, by the way, is obsolete. >> you got hooked into something you should have talked about. >> i think, well, someday maybe. >> maybe? >> of course. >> where would we drop a nuclear weapon in the middle east? >> let me explain. somebody hits us with -- >> isis. >> you wouldn't fight back? >> to drop a nuclear weapon into a community of people -- >> first of all, you don't want to say take everything off the table. >> no, just nuclear.

>> look, nuclear should be off the table but would there be a time when it can be used? possibly. >> the trouble is when you said that, the whole world heard, david cameron in britain heard it, the japanese heard it, a guy running for president of the united states talking about possibly using nuclear weapons. >> why do we make them? >> because of what reagan hated and tried to get rid of. >> i would be the last one to use nuclear weapons. >> can you tell the middle east we'll never use nuclear weapons? >> i would never say that, i would never take my cards off the table. >> what about europe? >> i am not taking cards off the table. i'm not going to use nukes but i'm not taking any cards off the table. >> the trouble is the sane people hear you and the insane people are not affected by your threats. >> i think they're more effective than you might think. >> okay. your call. much more from the university of wisconsin green bay and our

msnbc exclusive town hall with donald trump coming back.

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we're back from green bay, wisconsin. the home of green bay, well, university of wisconsin green bay with the front-runner for the republican nomination, donald trump. we have our first question from the people here. go ahead. >> hi, my name is quinn. my question for you was regarding your immigration reform. i was wondering if you can offer insight and specific as to what you really hope to change if given the presidency. >> okay. very good question and i think it's a very strong question for me because from the beginning, i have been very strong on immigration, on stopping illegal immigration. just so you understand, i want people to come into this country. i want a lot of people to come into the country, but they have to go through a process, have to do it legally. we have to have a strong

southern border. drugs are pouring across the border. tremendous problems. we're having tremendous problems with crime. you understand that, everybody understands that. we're going to have very, very strong borders. we're going to have a wall. it's going to happen. mexico is going to pay for the wall. chris will say, how are they going to pay, how are they going to pay? >> i just don't think they will. that's all right. how high is this wall going to be? >> i'd say a good 35 feet. it's getting higher all the time. [ laughter ] >> i don't think so. >> we need to have a country, we have borders or we don't at all. people will come into the country. a lot of people are going to come into the country but come in legally. okay? thank you. >> can i ask you about one question to follow up on that. it only seems to me, you can build a high wall, build a tunnel, take a boat, get a plane ride, they'll get here. if you had to get here to get a job, you would. >> you can't do that with e-verify. >> i'm very it. i use it. >> what should be the punishment for -- >> you can be -- >> you're collaborating with an illegal immigrant. >> sure, you can be very, very strong, a huge financially

penalty, it can be beyond a financial penalty. >> why won't the guys in your party pass it? >> they don't want it -- >> they don't believe it in. >> some of them do. some of them believe it strongly. others don't. i'm using e-verify on just about every job. i'm using it on a new hotel. >> the person who hires somebody illegally, i'm not talking about leaf raking in front of the house or pushing the snow out of the way, somebody who hires them to save money on labor. you bring somebody into the country, giving them -- you're basically encouraging illegal immigration. that's why this guy or woman is coming here, right? >> yes. you can solve the problem with e-verify and other systems -- >> why doesn't your party or you back that? >> i back it, my party backs it -- >> no, they don't. ryan won't bring it up on the floor. >> many people --

>> they're not trustworthy. they're not bringing it up. they talk the line about illegal immigration. they like the cheap labor. >> there are many people -- >> don't they? >> they do in one way, but many people don't. they don't want it. you know what -- >> the regular working guy doesn't want it but the business guy, corporate leaders want the cheap labor. >> chris, we need borders. we have a country, we have borders. >> i'm with you. >> people are walking -- >> i like your line. either have a country or we don't. i'm with you. the way to stop illegal immigration is stop illegal hiring. it makes economic sense. >> you can do that. i do that on every single job i have. >> okay. let's go to the next question, sir. >> good evening, mr. trump. >> hi. >> hi. i'm chris parker. my question for you is given recent events with minority protesters at your campaign rallies, give me reasons why a minority voter such as myself should vote for you. >> i'm going to bring back jobs to this country. people are going to have jobs. people right now don't have it. african-american youth, 59% unemployment. go to various places, you go to baltimore, you go to -- oakland, detroit, you look at the kind of numbers. i'm going to bring jobs back. i'm taking them back from china.

i'll bring them back from mexico, which by the way, is eating our lunch both at the border and with economic development, chris. i mean, what they're doing -- >> i know. >> ford is going there, nabisco is going there, carrier air conditioner announced they're moving to mexico. i will bring back jobs and i'm not going to let people go. i will make it so they're going to want to stay here. nobody contacts ford, nobody contacts nabisco or carrier. they leave, they leave. that's the end of it. we don't fight to keep these companies here. we're going to fight. it's going to be jobs. okay? thank you. >> go to china and see the cranes on a friday night, they're working, they're building. their cities have 7 million people. we've never heard of. i've been there. they're unbelievable. how are we going to rebuild our cities? you talk about penn station in new york being a dump. laguardia being a dump. took the train a couple months ago, it takes three days. okay? when are we going to rebuild our

country like europe does or japan or germany? the countries we beat in world war ii have state of the art stuff. we're back 70 years. >> you know why? because they are killing us with monetary devaluation. >> no. >> with currency -- it's true. >> our government -- we are not building here. >> the reason is our jobs are being taken out and they're doing it with devaluation. if you look at what china has done with the devaluation of the currency, they're killing us. >> can't stop it. >> it's -- >> how much paper -- >> you know how you stop it? you stop it by being tough by saying you can't do what you're doing. china is like the grand master, a chess master. >> you know why they get away with it? >> their leaders are smarter than ours. >> they got our paper. >> and they have -- on top of that -- >> what are you going to do if they dump that paper on the world market tomorrow morning? >> we owe them $1.7 trillion. >> suppose they dump all those funds. >> we're going to be just fine. >> oh, really? we're going to be -- >> no, no, we're going to be just fine. >> our number one creditor is going to dump us as a debtor and we're going to be just fine? >> they're making -- we're going to be absolutely just fine unless we continue with the program we have right now. we have a high dollar. take a look at what's happening

in this country. people aren't coming here. our high dollar which sounds good to people, everyone says, that's great, we have a strong dollar. we're getting killed worldwide. manufacturing and tourism and everything else coming into this country, it's not happening. we're getting absolutely outmaneuvered by devaluation. >> you take your approach, and you signal this everywhere. nato, those guys got to pay their dues or we're going to get out of there. you're saying in north asia, you say about japan and south korea, they don't start paying more, we're pulling out. you say in the middle east, saudis and jordanians and emirates don't start paying, we'll pull out. mexico, if you don't build the wall, blah, blah, blah, we'll cut off your trade. the bargaining technique is based on i don't need this deal. the existing deals we have with the middle east, with europe -- >> you don't need them. >> we don't need those deals? we don't need nato? >> we don't need nato in its current form. nato is obsolete. >> how about the middle east? >> we're spending so much money.

you know what, with fracking and all the things taking place and all the oil canada has, canada has more than almost anybody, when you look at what we have, we aren't dependent on that anymore and we very shortly -- >> we don't need jordan or the saudis or the emirates? we don't need those countries? >> people have to pay their fair share. a year ago when oil prices were high, now it's lower, they're still making a fortune. saudi arabia was making $1 billion a day. we're defending them and getting -- >> you're the only one that can cut a deal, that nobody else has been able to cut a deal. >> they don't cut deals like i cut deals. that i can tell you. >> you're willing to walk on all these deals? >> excuse me. >> you walk. >> you always have to be able to walk. >> how do you walk from nato, the middle east, china, all these relationships, just drop them off? >> nato is 68 years old. you have countries that are getting a free ride. you is countries that benefit from nato much more than we do. we don't benefit that much. >> you can turn down new deals bull all these deals we've had

for years like nato and relationships with japan. japan doesn't want a nuclear weapon. >> of course, why should they? >> do you want them to have a nuclear weapon? >> i'll answer that question. we defend -- a lot of people don't know this, we spend a fortune on defending japan. we spend a fortune on defending germany. right? we spend a fortune on defending south korea. i order thousands of television sets from south korea. they're making a fortune. they're a behemoth. so is germany. >> because it's in our interest. >> why aren't they reimbursing us? why aren't they paying a good portion of the cost? >> fine, it's a good argument if you can get it. >> i'll get it. >> if the alternative is we walk -- >> i'm the messenger. i'll get it. >> going to do it because they like you or fear we'll walk? >> they're going to get it because it's in their best interest. we have to walk, we are to walk. >> said south korea and japan maybe having to drop their own nuclear weapon capability. >> i said i'll keep it the way

it is but they have to pay their fair sure. south korea is a behemoth, they make so much. the ships of the world, great ships of the world. can't buy televisions anymore unless you go to sony in japan. >> last time we pulled troops from the 38th parallel we had a problem, the korean war. shouldn't be pulling troops. >> i tell you, the korean war, we compete with south korea. i have buildings in south korea. i get along great with people in south korea. >> you won't if you pull the troops. >> the top people cannot believe -- of course they didn't know i was going to be running for president. they used to tell me, they don't tell me that anymore, they cannot believe they get away with what they get away with. you know who else? china. i have the largest bank. largest in the world. i have the bank of america building in san francisco. i got through china. i made a lot of money. condos all over the place with china. i know the chinese better than anybody. let me tell you, they can't believe they get away with what they get away with. >> they get with it because we owe them a couple trillion dollars. i'm monopolizing here. let's go. young lady?

>> hello. i have a question on, what is your stance on women rights and their right to choose and their own reproductive health? >> okay. well, look, i'm, as you know, i'm pro-life. i think you know that. and i -- with exceptions, with the three exceptions. but pretty much that's my stance. is that okay? you understand? >> what should the law be on abortion? >> well, i have been pro-life. >> i know. what should the law -- i know your principle. that's a good value. what should be the law? >> they've set the law and frankly the judges -- i mean, you're going to have a very big election coming up for that reason because you have judges where there's a real tipping point and with the loss of scalia who was a very strong conservative, this presidential election is going to be very important because when you say what's the law, nobody knows what the law is going to be. it depends on who gets elected because somebody is going to appoint conservative judges and somebody's going to appoint liberal judges depending on who wins. >> i never understood the pro-life -- i understand the principle, it's human life. what crime is it? >> it's human life. >> no, should the woman be --

this is not something you can dodge. if you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under the law. should abortion be punished? >> people in certain parts of the republican party, conservative republicans would say yes, they should be punished. >> how about you? >> i'd say it's a very serious problem and it's a problem we from to decide on. it's very -- >> you're for banning it. >> wait. are you going to say put them in jail? >> no, i'm asking you, you say you want to ban it. what's that mean? >> i am against -- i am pro-life. >> how do you ban abortion, how do you actually do it? >> you know, you'll go back to a position like they had where people will, perhaps, go to illegal places. >> yeah. >> but you have to ban it. >> you ban it and they go to somebody who flunked out of medical school. >> are you catholic? >> yes. >> how do you feel about the catholic church's position? >> i accept the teaching authority of my church on moral issues. >> do you know their position on

abortion? >> yes, i do. >> do you concur with that position? >> i concur to the moral -- legally, to get to the question, here's my problem with it -- >> what do you say -- >> it's not funny. >> it's not funny. what do you say about your church? >> the churches make their moral judgements but you running for president of the united states will be chief executive of the united states. do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah. has to be some form. >> ten years, what? >> i don't know. >> why not? you take positions on everything else. >> i do take positions on everything else. it's a very complicated position. >> but you say that you're pro-life meaning you want to ban it. >> the catholic church is pro-life. >> don't talk about my religion. >> you say you're a very good catholic. >> i didn't say very good, i said i'm a catholic.

secondly, you're running for president. i'm not. i'm asking you what should a woman face if she chooses to have an abortion? >> i'm not going to play that game. >> game? you said you're pro-life. >> so is the catholic church pro-life. >> this isn't spain. the church doesn't control the government. >> why is the punishment under the catholic church? >> new testament, "render to caesar the things that are caesar's and to god the things that are god's." i'm asking you, you want to be president of the united states, tell any what the law should be. you say you're pro life. >> i am pro-life. >> what's that mean? >> i am pro-life with exceptions. i have not determined what the punishment -- >> why not? >> because i haven't determined it. >> if you decide to be pro-life, you should have thought about it. >> no, you can ask anybody -- >> here's my problem with it, if you don't have a -- people are going to find a way to have an abortion. >> don't believe in what? >> i don't believe in punishing anybody for having an abortion. i think it's a woman's choice. >> you're against the teachings of your church. >> i believe we live in a free country. i don't want to live in a country so fascistic. that would be invasive, determining of a society i

wouldn't be familiar with, donald trump, you wouldn't be familiar with. >> speaking so highly about your religious and your church. >> yeah. >> your church is very, very strongly, as you know, pro-life. >> i know. >> what do you say to your church? >> i say i accept your moral authority. in the united states the people make the decisions, the courts rule on what's in the constitution and we live by that. that's what i say. >> you don't live by it because you don't accept it. you can't accept it. you can't accept it. >> can we go back to matters of the law and runs for president because matters of the law, what i'm talking about, this is the difficult situation you placed yourself in, by saying you're pro-life you want to ban abortion. how do you ban abortion without some kind of sanction? then you get into the very tricky question of a sanction. a fine on human life, which you call murder. >> it will have to be determined. >> a fine? imprisonment for a young woman who finds herself pregnant? >> it will have to be determined. >> what about the guy who gets her pregnant, is he responsible under the law for these

abortions or is he not responsible for an abortion decision? >> it has different feelings, different people. i would say no. >> well, they're usually involved. anyway, much more from the audience here at the university of wisconsin green bay. we'll be right back. >> i'm alex trebek. if you're age 50 to 85, i have an important message about security. write down the number on your screen, so you can call when i finish. the lock i want to talk to you about isn't the one on your door.

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welcome back to green bay, wisconsin, for our exclusive town hall with donald trump. we're here at the university of wisconsin green bay. more from our audience. congratulations, grandpa. theodore, right? >> theodore james. >> speaking of being pro-life. >> right. >> go ahead, first question. >> mr. trump, i'm dana shrome. could you provide us a little bit of your position on the right to marry for gays and lesbians as well as if you'll continue the fight for equality for those individuals? >> well, the courts have decided so that's not a subject that's come up. the courts decided. i would have preferred the states making the decision, but the courts have decided. >> just a quick furthermore, could you maybe talk about how you might increase equality for people of the transgender community? >> i would say that i'm going to go by the laws of the courts and the courts is really very much up in flux right now but i'll go by the laws. >> next question. go ahead. >> hi. >> hi, mr. trump. my name is chris colter. i'm wondering what your plan is

for addressing rising tuition costs and rising student debt. would you support things as aggressive as, say, student loan forgiveness? >> i get this question more than any other question when i'm with young college students and they're absolutely up to their neck in debt and can't get jobs when they graduate even if they're good students in cases and don't know what to do. they're really stuck. we're going to work on plan where it's going to be extensions, be very low interest. we're going to work on it because something has to be done. chris, i get that question more than any other question is what are we going to do about student debt? it's an enormous problem in this country. and the biggest part of the problem is they graduate from college, good colleges and can't get jobs so we're going to work on it. >> yeah. >> yes? >> my name's elena colt. i'm a retired veteran. >> good. >> i'm wondering what your top military advisers are and who your top veterans affairs adviser is. >> i really announced and i'm going to be announcing some at the end of this week. i announced a whole list.

i gave it out last week. we have walid phares and some tremendous people and frankly as far as the vets are concerned, i thought when you started saying vet, i thought you were going to ask me another question because the vets in this country where being treated horribly. >> i agree. >> when you talk about illegal immigration, you talk about they're being treated worse in many cases than illegal immigrants. what's going on, it's corrupt, the veterans administration and it's incompetently run, so i can tell you as a vet, you're going to be very, very happy with trump. >> thank you very much. >> we're going to keep up the questionings at the town hall with donald trump after this. we're back to green bay, wisconsin, with donald trump. let's ask more questions. the mayor of the city, james schmitt. your honor? >> mr. trump, welcome to green bay, and chris. we needed 30 new hires for our call center.

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we're back to green bay, wisconsin, with donald trump. let's ask more questions. the mayor of the city, james schmitt. your honor? >> mr. trump, welcome to green bay, and chris. >> thank you. >> as a fellow politician, some of us are embarrassed about the decor rum of this campaign and just the attitudes and the flavor that this has taken and i'm wondering what you can do as the front-runner of the republican party to really elevate elevate the issues and get away from the pettiness we've been experiencing. >> first of all, congratulations, 14 years as mayor of green bay. we have very hard issues. we talk about them. i'd much rather talk about the issues than the kind of things that are brought up. things get brought up. and sometimes they get brought

up because it's me, and sometimes they get brought up for a lot of other reasons, but i think it's very important that we elevate the conversation and i agree with you 100%, i would much rather be discussing nuclear and all of the other issues that we're discussing than the kind of things that you're referring to. thank you, mr. mayor. >> hello. >> how are you? >> good. my name is shana, i'm a professor here at the communication department. >> good. >> so my question for you is around prison reform. what do you see needs to be reformed with our prison system, and with that, what do you think about drug legalization? playing into the reform. >> i think that as far as drug legalization, we talk about marijuana and in terms of medical, i think i am basically for that. i've heard some wonderful things in terms of medical. i'm watching colorado very carefully. see what's happening out there.

i'm getting some very negative reports. i'm getting some okay reports. out i'm getting some very negative reports coming out of colorado as to what's happening so we'll see what happens. i think a lot of people are really looking at colorado. for prison reform, i think -- as you know, our prison system is a disaster. it's a complete disaster. all over the country, almost everything we have, chris, if you want to know the truth is a disaster. >> really? america's not bad. >> our military has been depleted. we have a lot of problems. okay. >> why does everybody want to come here if we're not great? everybody in the world wants to come here. everybody does better in this country than where they came from. >> other people have problems, too. >> i think we're better than that. >> with prisons, we can do a lot of privatizations and private prisons. it seems to work a lot better. >> what are the problems you've heard about colorado? everybody wonders about it, who do you want smoking dope? maybe the guy who teaches philosophy, it might be okay. does anybody trust anybody who's high to do anything?

i'm serious about this. it's not recreational drugs. what's that mean? >> there's a lasting negative impact. i mean, you do -- >> the loss of ambition. >> yeah. >> i think is there. >> there's a loss of something. so that book has not been written yet, but it's going it be written pretty soon. i'm not hearing very positive things. >> hi. >> yes, hi. >> my name is michael. my question is, you're on the record saying there might be riots in the event that you're not the republican party nominee. >> by the way, i hope not. >> no, i hope not, too. asking about that, in fact -- >> won't be led by me but will be a lot of unhappy people. >> in the event a brokered convention doesn't award the nomination to you, does your program have any programs or plans to mitigate violence among your supporters? >> we'll have definitely the largest number of votes no matter what happens, the largest number of votes and definitely the number of delegates by far, nobody is going to be close. will we get to 1,237? i think so. i hope we will. it will be very nice.

i'll do a very good job. but i think we will. if we don't, i can't really tell you what happens. look, people are being disenfranchised in this country. they looked at me as somebody and they look at me as somebody that's going to bring them back. we haven't had -- you haven't had a real salary increase, if you're a blue-collar worker, in over 12 years. it's getting worse and worse and worse. these are smart people. these are people that have always had good jobs. their jobs have been taken away. they've been sent over to china, mexico, and many other countries and they're not doing as well as they were doing 12 and 15 years ago. i will bring that back. and they know i will bring that back. and i'm the only one that's going to bring it back. i'm the only one that understands the subject, and frankly, i'm the only one that really even talks about the subject and i think you're going to have some people that are going to be very, very upset if i'm leading. now, if i'm not leading, somebody else has more votes, somebody else has more delegates, that's a different thing. if i'm leading by a lot and let's say i'm a little bit short of that number, and i told you before, that number is a little

bit fictitious because i'm not running against one or two people. right now i am. for the last six months we've been running against many, many people. >> yeah. >> so it's really a very unfair standard. but if i'm a little bit short, but i'm millions of votes and hundreds of delegates ahead of other people, i think you're going to have some very unhappy people. i hope nothing bad happens, but i think you're going to have some very, very angry and unhappy people. >> what will you be? >> i think -- >> what will you say to the american people who voted for you in that moment? >> i can't say yet because that's a very emotional situation you're talking about. i can't really tell you what i will do or what i'll say. i can say this. if i'm way ahead by all counts, if i'm way ahead, i would be very disappointed. you know, we're supposed to be a democracy. the louisiana thing is a terrible thing. i told you before. i won and i end up with less delegates -- >> who do you trust in the republican leadership? suppose you come in around 1,150, you think that's a gimme, you say not a gimme. you go to john kasich say, john,

i need a v.p., i need delegates. it will get you over the top. >> i don't want to reveal what i may do. i may -- >> you said you may use nuclear weapons but can't tell me how you're going to operate the convention? >> i didn't say -- i never rule -- from a negotiating standpoint -- >> okay, do you trust anybody, do you trust reince priebus to play it fair? >> do i trust anybody? let's put it that way. >> do you trust mitt romney not trying to go in there and grab it back? >> i don't trust mitt romney. mitt romney was disgraced. he should have won that election. >> he's trying to get it i hear. >> he's not going to get is. he should have won that election. mitt romney let us down. that's an election that should have been won. he choked. he went away. he choked. just like a dog. he choked. >> you're good at this. >> no, i'm not good at it, i'm just telling you the facts. >> were you the guy who gave nicknames in high school? >> no, but i give nicknames right now. >> big ears. little hands. that was you, i'm sorry. we'll be right back with more of donald trump in just a minute.

we're back with donald trump for just a couple more minutes. i want to give you a chance here because a couple things in this campaign you said have grabbed me and i thought were powerful. i want you to take a minute. i'll give you a break here just to do it. either we have a country or we don't. >> right. >> what did you mean by that? >> we have to have borders. we can't let people walk in and

out of our country like we do right now. we don't have borders. people are pouring into the country. the border patrol just today endorsed me. >> what do they think of this wall idea? >> they like the wall and like to be given their strength back. these are great people, these are people who can do the job but not allowed to do it. >> you're asking the mexican government to put a wall up to keep its own people in. >> no, no, we're putting a wall up. >> they're going to pay for it. they're going to pay for our wall to keep their people in their country. this could be like the berlin wall, only time to build a wall to keep your own people in. why would any country pay to keep its on people in? it's never happened except the berlin wall. >> we have a trade deficit with mexico, $58 billion a year. the wall is going to cost approximately $10 billion. believe me, they will pay in one form or another. >> if not, or else what? >> they could stop a lot of the problem. if you want to become a citizen of mexico, you want to get into mexico, it is impossible. >> i know. i'm not saying they're not

hypocritical. >> let me just tell you -- >> i know that. >> -- they could stop a lot of problems we're having by themselves. they don't choose to do it. not right. and we have a trade deficit, $58 billion -- >> so we cut off -- >> they'll pay for the wall. >> this is your strategy in every case. we can walk. no more trade. >> you have to -- >> no more trade with mexico. >> absolutely. >> no more troops in europe. >> by the way, when i say no more trade, once they know that you are really willing to go that extra length, there will always be trade, but we'll make good deals. we're making -- >> the bottom line is always we walk. >> you have to be able to walk. yes. it's unlikely that you'll have to, but you have to be able to -- >> these could be very tricky. anyway, thank you. >> thank you very much. >> this argument will continue. thank you, donald trump. we are americans before we are republicans, or democrats. we are americans. >> john kasich is as determined

as ever. >> i'm going to compete across the country, and tell people who i am, and let the chips fall where they may. >> can he unite a divided party? >> i have a record of accomplishment, a record of bringing people together, and i'm the one that can get the crossover votes. >> i will not take the lone road to the highest office in the land. i will not do it. >> and do more than just stay in the race. >> no one is going to that convention with enough delegates. i'm beating hillary by 11 points. i'm the only one that can win in the fall. >> they told me it cannot be done and i said you watch me. >> this is an msnbc exclusive with governor john kasich, from saint helen catholic church. here now, chuck todd. well, good evening, and welcome to another msnbc town hall, this one with ohio governor, john kasich. we're in queens, new york. st. helen catholic church.