do well and the calendar is now beginning to favor us. and look, we just have to keep accumulating delegates and gather momentum. >> well, i'm going to pause it there. governor kasich, appreciate you joining us here. this was great. >> enjoyed it. >> stay safe on the trail. for all of us here at msnbc, have a good night. in the history of politics in this country, there has never been anything like what's happening here. >> the donald trump phenomenon rolls on. >> believe me, that's why i'm going to be elected president. >> the exchanges have been heated. >> if you disenfranchise those people, i think you'd have riots. >> that's an incendiary comment. >> that is not leadership, that is political arson. >> donald trump is literally inciting violence with his supporters. >> now they have become personal. >> donald, you're a sniveling coward and leave heidi the hell alone. >> i'm just responding to what

he did. >> is the damage irreparable or can the discord among the republicans be overcome? >> we're going to be smart, we're going to be vij lanlt, we're going to be proud ufr country again. >> this is an msnbc exclusive town hall with donald trump. from the university of wisconsin, green bay. here now chris matthews. >> good evening. and welcome to this exclusive town hall. tonight for a full hour our guest is the front-runner for the republican presidential nomination, donald trump. >> thank you, thank you. >> interesting situation here. we're up here in green bay and my calculations say that if

you're going to win the general election, you've got to win up here. states like wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, nfl places. >> sure. >> right? >> i think. you know, it certainly would be helpful. we're doing very well. we're leading boy a lot. we're leading everybody by a lot. in votes in terms of votes, we're millions of votes up on cruz and millions of votes up on kasich, but we'll have to see what we do. all you can do is do your best, right, folks? we do our best. >> let's talk about -- before you get to the general election, you've got to win the republican nomination. where's your leverage there? you've talked about north asia, north atlantic treaty, the middle east, mexico, the ability to walk, the ability to say no more trade, the ability to say we're not going to buy your oil. it's always leverage, it's always i'm going to walk. what is your leverage with the republican bosses when they got to cleveland and they try to keep you from winning on the first ballot? >> one thing, the voters. i have millions more votes than anybody else. it's not even close, you know because you've reported on i

we're setting records in terms of republican primaries. if you look at new hampshire, if you look at south carolina, no matter where you look, we're setting records and that's my leverage. these are people that are really -- they really like donald trump, they really like what i'm saying. we're going to make america great again. that's what it is. that's what my leverage is. without me they lose millions -- i think millions of people and nobody will have a chance. i will beat hillary clinton. and i haven't started that process yet. i have two people left. we started off with actually 18 people and now there's two left. >> you're counting jim gilmore. >> sort of counting. >> let me ask you about the steps you get there. cleveland is going to be in july. if you go in there short of -- if you have 1237, you've got it. >> right. >> if you come in short and they try something on the first ballot, now, i've been watching, listening, mitt romney is up to something. he wants it. you can tell he wants it. paul ryan is making himself very clearly available with the statement he made last week. what do you do if they deny you the first ballot victory? >> we're going to see what happens. i can say this, chris, we're so

far up above everybody else. we're hundreds, i mean hundreds of delegates above cruz. we just you probably heard last night, missouri was just certified so i won missouri in addition to everything else. we're way, way up in votes. if we're a little bit short, i think it's a very unfair process. let me just explain -- >> what's the jimmy, 6 inches, 2 feet? >> let me explain. normally you're talking about running and you don't have 17 people. we had 17 people, we actually had 18 people, again, including gilmore, okay. so we have 18 people. and during a long period of time, we'd have 14 people, 13 people, 12 people, you know, in primaries. we had a lot of people in the primaries. so i'd get 25%, 28%. those are phenomenal numbers when you have that many people running. so in those early states which i won, but you can't get 50% when you have that many people running. there's never been so many people running. i'm going to come very close to the 1237. i think i'm going to beat the

1237. we're doing phenomenally in new york. >> but what if you don't get to 1237 and they deny it to you. you mentioned you like teddy roosevelt. in 1912 he didn't get the nomination. he walked out, split the party, beat the republican party in november but lost the general to wilson. >> i can't tell you what i'm going to do because i'm not sure. i hope they're going to be fair. if they're going to be fair, they're going to be very happy. how can they give up many millions of people -- >> because they don't like you. >> then they're going to lose and you're going to have four supreme court justices that they're not going to like. >> you said last night on cnn you're not going to stick to this pledge to back the nominee. are you sticking to that? >> i have not been treated properly. people understand. they haven't stuck to the pledge. i don't want an endorsement who doesn't feel like oh, i love trump, if he wins, he's going to be the guy. i'm not looking for that endorsement. when they asked me about cruz and the endorsement, i said no,

no. no pressure on cruz. tell him he doesn't have to endorse me. it doesn't matter. the endorsements don't mean very much. i have senator sessions, jeff sessions endorse me. everybody thought he was going to endorse cruz, he endorsed me because he knows i'm much better on security and on a lot of things. >> you always talk about leverage. you always talk about we can walk away from the saudis, we can walk away from the chinese. you always say your leverage is the ability to walk. do you have the ability to walk on the republican nomination? can you walk? >> of course i can always do. i can always walk. i don't want to let people down. i have minneapolis/st. paullion than cruz has. now, the system is not a good system. when you take louisiana, i went to louisiana and campaigned there. i won the state. now the numbers come out and i have less delegates than cruz. that's not the american way. as you know, i won louisiana,

big victory, everything great. but because of arcane rules and a lot of nonsense, i end up getting a few less delegates than cruz. that's not the way the system is supposed to work. >> three-fifths of the american people say you're right, if you have the most votes, you should bow the nominee. i'm still trying to figure out what your alternative is if you don't get it. what do you do? >> i don't think i want to tell you as much as i respect you. i did an interview at the university of pennsylvania many, many years ago -- >> this stuff doesn't work with me. >> is that a true thing? >> it's all true. you were a selecelebrity even t. >> i do like your question of leverage. my leverage is the voters, chris, just to end it. my leverage is the voters. i have millions more votes than anybody else. >> was teddy roosevelt right to walk? >> studied well. i think possibly he was but boy, did that cause a problem. >> let me ask you about this thing with your campaign manager. do you think you could have handled it different low from the start with maybe an apology

to the young woman reporter, something like that, maybe give her an interview, something to deescalate the issue and show respect to her? >> i don't think so. i think if he called up to apologize you'd bow in the same place. people that have seen that say give me a break. >> but there was contact. >> what's contact? >> unwanted touching. >> yeah, but she contacted me. excuse me, she grabbed my arm twice. you see the picture of me looking like who is this person and getting her off of me. >> what do you make of the bruises on the picture? >> i don't know who created those bruises. two days later she comes in and said she had some bruises. >> but this kind of argument just infuriates her and a lot of women because you're not showing belief in her credibility. why would she make up a story about bruises? why would anybody do that? >> 15 minutes away in front of a very large crowd we talked about that. i said who saw the tape. a lot of people raised their

hand. three-quarters raised their hand, big audience. i said who thinks he did something really wrong, stand up please or raise your hand if you don't want to stand up. not one person in the room. your cameras were there. not one person in the room raised their hand. we're getting -- it's out of control. political correctness, whatever you want to call it, it's totally out of control. >> what's the right approach, though? if you accidentally bump into somebody, accidentally trip them, you say i'm sorry. don't you show some apology and respect for the other person? >> i think that's fine. >> wouldn't that have been appropriate here? >> i'm not sure he didn't say it there. in my opinion just watching the tape, nobody remembers the incident because it was so remember. >> the jupiter police remember it. >> excuse me, i think that they are -- what they have done is, i think, outrageous. they're destroying a very good person. he's a good person. forget about politics. he's a good person with a wonderful family, four beautiful kids and they're destroying that

man over nothing. you take a look at that tape. she's grabbing me. maybe i should press charges against her. she's not supposed to be grabbing me. she's touching me, she's grabbing my arm and i'm going like this. i'm saying who is it? the news conference was over. she pushed her way through, came through the secret service, grabs my arm and i think maybe this was just -- and let me tell you something just so you understand. if she went down, she made the statement that she went down or essentially almost went down. >> almost went down. >> nothing -- there was nothing there. she didn't even have a -- if i give you a little shot on the arm, you're going to go ow. i'm a strong guy. she expect even have facial movement. >> she did say in realtime that it hurt. >> when was the realtime? when did they record that? >> you've very skeptical about her. >> yes. >> and why don't you have any sympathy for her? >> i don't think that -- >> she's doing her job. >> first of all, it was my tape. i was the one that did the tape. i looked at that tape.

we have heads being cut off in -- all over the world frankly, but we have people's heads being cut off in the middle east, people's heads bowing cut off. we have people drowning in steel cages. here's a woman and it didn't even look like there was physical touching. it was almost like he was blocking her away from me and he's supposed to be a criminal for that? >> western society claims that we're better with women. >> look, nobody respects women more than i do. that i can tell you. >> you don't respect her, though? >> well, she's somebody that -- yeah, i would say i don't have great respect for her. i think for her to do to this man whoever what he did is outrageous. is outrageous. >> she quit her job over it. >> did she quit or did she get fired? >> well, i don't know. i think she quit. >> i think maybe the other way. we'll find out. >> let's talk about the larger -- >> you know what, we'll fiemd out in court. the easiest thing for me to do, you're fired. that's so easy. that's a very easy experience. then everybody's happy.

everybody's happy. >> well, there's a middle -- >> no, i can't do that because i'm loyal to people. when they went to cruz and kasich, oh, you should fire him. you should fire him, you should fire him. i don't do that. if somebody is being really -- i just thought it was a very unfair situation. this is not good for me. >> how do you think women react when they see this? the numbers aren't good. >> a lot of women would say give me a break. i don't understand why. the numbers aren't good. the numbers were good but aren't as good as they were. but nobody respects women more than i do. >> let's talk about isis. it's the number one concern of a lot of people since last week. how do you beat people -- when we fought the germans or the italians, the army puts their hands up at the end because they know it's hopeless. how do you fight people who wrap themselves in dynamite, get up, brush their teeth in the morning, save in some cases, go off to the airport with the idea

of blowing themselves up, killing themselves that day, that morning. how do you beat that kind of mentality? >> we have to be so tough and so vigilant and we have to do things frankly that we've never done before. >> but they want to die for their cause. maybe they do and some of them do. you know, a lot of people are trying to figure out why they do this, how they do this. >> they're recruited. >> are they drugged out? >> they're recruited. >> are they drugged out when they do it. what's going on when they go in and blow themselves out. are they all drugged out? is somebody drugging them? there's a lot of things going on. when i talked about we have to be very careful because we have people coming into this country, it's a very bad situation. we have thousands and thousands of people coming into our country. we have no idea where they come from -- >> oftentimes it's the second or first generation. it's not the first wave of immigrants. these people in belgium have been living there. they were born there. they're belgians. how do you deal with that situation? >> look at the guy in boston,

the boston bombers. they came here as young kids and became radicalized. >> so is banning their entry into the country even temporarily encourage them to be on our side against the terrorists or encourage them to be on the other side. >> banning until we figure out what is going on is an important thing. i take a lot of heat for it. a lot of people like me for it to be honest with you. >> but there's 1.6 million muslims and they're getting the message from donald trump saying stay out of my country. how does that encourage them to fight isis? how does that encourage them to fight the bad guys? >> they have a problem too. >> if we say go away -- >> i'm saying what you are doing is a great thing, not a bad thing. >> are any muslims telling you that? >> i have actually -- believe it or not i have a lot of friends that are muslims. in most cases they're very rich muslim. they'll come in. and you'll have exceptions. wait, wait, wait. chris, chris, with the san bernardino situation. >> right. >> many people saw that apartment with bombs all over the apartment.

>> i agree with that. if you see something, say something. >> not one person, they said it's racial profiling, that's why they didn't call. you know why they said that? some lawyer said you saw this, you better come up with a good excuse. they said it's racial profiling. a lot of people saw what was going on in that apartment. not one muslim. >> i'm with you on this. of course i'm with you. >> why didn't they report them? chris, why don't they report them? >> you say ban them from entering the country. they get the message. anywhere there's muslims, you know, they know you don't want them so they get the message. they're a little more ill disposed to fight isis after they say the americans don't even like us. >> maybe they'll be more disposed to isis. maybe they'll want to come back into america and solve this problem. >> you know what cruz is pushing more, he wants patrol cars driving up neighborhoods that he thinks muslims are living there. these aren't street criminals.

we're going up and down the streets. that will make them more mill tanlt against us. >> what do you think of his stance? >> i think we have to look at the mosques, i think we have to be extremely careful. we have to look at mosques. a lot of things -- we're making enemies by doing nothing. we're talking down world trade centers, we're shooting planes into the pentagon. probably the other plane was going toward the white house. you had some very brave people. what are we going to do, just sit back and say we want to be nice to everybody? we can't be so nice. >> sometimes we create more trouble. do you think it was smart to go into iraq? was that smart to put our troops in the land of mecca? >> i thought it was one of the worst decisions in the history of our country. >> are you more hawkish than hillary or less hawkish? >> i'm probably more intelligent than hillary. >> oh, come on, answer the question. are you more hawkish? are you more likely to engage militarily than hillary? >> i would never want to make a blanket statement like that. i would have never gone into

iraq. i said from a very early date and you saw that, from the earliest date, i don't want to go into iraq. i was a real estate guy, i was a business guy so nobody really cared that much. but there were articles a long time ago. i said you're going to destabilize the middle east. that happened. when we got out of iraq, we got out the wrong day. we set a date which was terrible. but i always said take the oil because you know who has the oil right now? first of all, inn ran -- >> you need ground troops to take the oil. >> i said take the oil. well, i said keep the oil. we already had the troops there. when we were leaving, i said don't leave. keep the oil. >> your most controversial suggestion was don't take nuclear weapons. you may have been hooked into this by a press question. >> don't take what? >> nuclear weapons off the table. i have been trying to think how we could conceivably use a nuclear weapon in fighting isis. why leave it on the table if you can't imagine where to use it? >> i said i would be very, very slow and hesitant to pull that

trigger. >> why wouldn't you say i don't want to talk about it. appellat >> we were talking about nato, which i say is obsolete. >> but you got hooked into something you shouldn't have talked about. >> well, some day maybe -- >> maybe? where would we drop a nuclear weapon in the middle east? >> somebody hits us with a nuke. >> isis. >> you wouldn't fight back with a nuke? >> no, you drop it into a community of people -- >> first of all, you don't want to say take everything off the table. >> just nuclear. >> nuclear should be off the table, but would there be a time when it could be used? possibly, possibly. >> when you said that, the whole world heard. david cameron heard it, the japanese heard it. they're hearing a guy running for president of the united states talking of maybe using nuclear weapons. nobody wants to hear that about an american president. >> why do we make them? >> i was against iraq. i'd be the last one to use the nuclear weapons. >> can you tell the middle east we're not using a nuclear weapon? >> i would never take any of my

cards off the table. >> how about europe. >> i'm not taking anything off the table. >> you might use it in europe? >> no, i don't think so. >> just say it. >> i am not taking cards off the table. i'm not going to use nux but i'm not taking any trouble off the table. >> the insane people hear you and the insane people are not affected by your threats. that's the trouble. the real fanatics say good, keep it up. >> i think they're more affected than you might think. >> okay. your call. much more from the university of wisconsin green bay and our msnbc exclusive town hall with donald trump coming back. when you think about success, what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders

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we're back from green bay, wisconsin. the home of university of wisconsin green bay with the front-runner for the republican nomination, donald trump. we have our first question from the people here. go ahead. >> hi. my name is quinn and my question

for you is regarding your immigration reform. i was wondering if you can offer a little bit more insight and specifics as to what he really hope to change if given the presidency. >> okay, very good question. i think that's a very strong question for me because from the beginning i have been very strong on immigration, on stopping illegal immigration. just so you understand, i want people to come into this country. i want a lot of people to come into the country but they have to go through a process and they have to do it legally. we have to have a strong southern border. drugs are pouring across the border. tremendous problems. we're having tremendous problems with crime. you understand that. everybody understands it. we're going to have very, very strong borders. we're going to have a wall, it's going to happen. mexico is going to pay for the wall. chris will say how are they going to pay, how are they going to pay? >> i just don't think they will. how high is the wall going to be? >> i'd say a good 35 feet. it's getting higher all the time. >> i don't think so. >> we either have a country with borders or we don't at all. but people will come into the

country, a lot of people, but they'll come in legally. >> can i ask you about one question following that. it seems to me you can build a wall and they'll build a tunnel or take a boat or plane ride. if you had to get here to get a job, you'd get here. my question is what are we going to do about illegal hiring because the republicans join the democrats in that bill and said we're going to stop illegal hiring. >> you can do that with e hit e-verify. >> are you for it? >> i'm for it. i use it. >> what should be the punishment for -- you're collaborating with an immigrant. >> you can be very, very strong. it can be a huge financial penalty. >> why don't these guys in your party pass it? they don't believe in it. >> some of them believe in it very strongly, others don't. i'm using e-verify at just about every job. at doral i'm using it. rebuilding the old post office that i'm building into what will soon be a phenomenal hotel and i'm using e-verify and it works. >> the person who hires somebody

illegally, i'm not talking about leaf raking or pushing snow, somebody who hires them to save in money on labor. you're basically encouraging illegal immigration because that's why this guy or woman is coming here, right? isn't that right? >> yes. and you can solve the problem with e-verify. >> why doesn't your party and you back it? >> i back it and my party backs it. >> ryan won't even bring it up on the floor. they're not trustworthy. they talk a line about illegal immigration, they want to play these games. they like the cheap labor, don't they? >> they do in one way but many people don't. they don't want it. >> the regular working guy doesn't wajt it, but the business guys, the corporate guys want the cheap labor. >> chris, we need borders. >> i like your line. we either have a country or we don't but the way to stop illegal immigration is to stop illegal hiring. >> you can do that and i do that on every single job i have. >> let's go to the next question, sir.

>> i'm chris parker. my question is given recent events with minority protesters at your campaign rallies, can you give me reasons why a minority voter such as myself would vote for you? >> because i'm going to bring jobs back to this country. african-american youth, 59% unemployment. you go to baltimore, you go to all of the -- oakland, troidetr you look at the kind of number, i'm going to bring jobs back. i'll bring them back from china, from mexico. which by the way is eating our lunch both at the border and with economic development. ford is going there, nabisco, carrier air conditioner just announced they're moving to mexico. i will bring back jobs and i'll not going to let people go. i'll make it so they want to stay here. nobody contacts ford, nobody contacts nabisco or carrier. they leave, they leave, that's the end of it. we don't fight to keep these companies here. we're going to fight. it's going to be jobs, okay? thank you. >> you go to china and you see

the cranes on friday night, they're working, they're building. cities of 7 million people we've never heard of, but i've been there. they're unbelievable. how are we going to rebuild our cities? you talk about penn station being a dump, laguardia being a dump. i took the train and it takes three days. when are we going to rebuild our country? the countries beat in world war ii have state-of-the-art stuff. >> they are killing us with monetary devaluation. >> no. our government is not building here. >> but the reason is our jobs are being taken out and they're doing it with devaluation. if you look at what china has done with the devaluation of their currency. >> can you stop it? how much paper have they got? >> you stop it by being tough. by saying you can't do what you're doing. china is the grand master. they're like a chess master. >> why do they get away with it? >> because their leaders are smarter than our leaders.

>> and they have our paper. what if they dump all that paper on the world market tomorrow morning? >> we owe them $1.7 trillion. >> what if they dump all those bonds? >> we're going to be just fine. >> oh, really? >> no, no, we're going to be just fine. >> so our number one krerkt is gointo dump us assay derkt and we're going to be just fine. >> we're going to be absolutely just fine unless we continue with the program we have right now. do you know we have a high dollar. you take a look at what's happening in this country right now. people aren't coming here. our high dollar, which sounds good to people. everyone says that's great, we have a strong dollar. we're getting killed worldwide. manufacturing and you look at tourism and everything else coming into this country, it's not happening. we're getting absolutely outmaneuvered by devaluation by the currency. >> but you take approach and nato, those guys have to pay their dues or we're getting out of there. you say in north asia, you say about japan and south korea, if they don't start paying more, we're pulling out.

in the middle east, if the saudis and jordanians don't start paying, we'll pull out. in mexico, if you don't build the wall, blah, blah, plblah, we'll cut off your trade. this is based on i don't need this deal. but the existing deals with the middle east, the existing deals with europe -- >> do you think we have to protect -- >> we don't need nato? >> nato is obsolete and we're spending disproportional -- >> how about the middle east? >> we are spending so much money. you know what, with fracking and all of the things that are taking place and with all of the oil that canada has, canada has almost more than anybody, when you look at what we have, we aren't dependent on that anymore. >> we don't need jordan or the saudis or the emirates? we don't need those countries? >> people have to pay their fair share. saudi arabia was making $1 billion a day and we're defending them and getting almost nothing -- >> but you're the only one that can cut a deal.

>> they don't cut deals like i cut deals. that i can tell you. >> and you're going to walk on all these deals. you walk. >> you always have to be able to walk. >> how do you walk from nato, the middle east, north asia, china, all these relationships, just drop them all? >> nato is 68 years old. >> yeah. >> you have countries that are getting a free ride. you have countries that benefit from nato much more than we do. >> i think you can turn down new deals but all these deals we've had for years like nato and relationships with japan. japan doesn't want a nuclear weapon. >> why should they? >> do you want them to have a nuclear weapon. >> i'll answer that question, but we defend -- a lot of people don't even know this. we spend a fortune on defending japan. we spend a fortune on defending germany, right? we spend a fortune on defending south korea. now, i order thousands of television sets here, they come from south korea. they make so much. they're making a fortune. so is germany. why are we defending them?

>> because it's in our interests. >> why aren't they reimbursing us? why aren't they paying a good portion of the cost? >> fine, that's a good argument if you can get it. >> i'll get it. >> if the alternative is we walk -- >> i'm the mess earn, i'll get it. another messenger won't get it. they're going to get it because it's in their best interests. >> you said something the other day about south korea and japan maybe having to develop their own nuclear weapon capability. >> no, what i said is i'll keep it the way it is but they have to pay their fair share. south korea is a behemoth. the great ships of the world, you can't buy televisions other than sony which is in japan. >> the last time we pulled troops from the 38th parallel, we had a problem, the korean war. >> the korean war, okay. so we compete with south korea. i have buildings in south korea. i get along great with the people in south korea. >> you won't if you pull the troops. >> the top people cannot believe -- of course they didn't know i was going to be running for president. they used to tell me, they don't tell me that anymore, they

cannot believe they get away with what they get away with. you know who else? china. i have the largest bank in the world in my building. i know china, i have the bank of america building in san francisco. i got through china, i've made a lot of money. condos all over the place with china. i know the chinese better than anybody. they can't believe they get away with what they get away with. >> because we owe them a couple trillion dollars. >> because you leaders don't know what they're doing. >> i am tia. what is your stance on woman rights and their right to choose in their own reproductive health. >> okay. as you know, i'm pro-life. i think you know that. and with exceptions, with the three exceptions. but pretty much that's my stance. is that okay? you understand? >> what should the law be on abortion? >> i have been pro-life. >> i know your principle, that's a good value. but what should be the law? >> they have set the law and

frankly the judges -- i mean you're going to have a very big election coming up for that reason because you have judges where it's a real tipping point. with the loss of scalia who was a very strong conservative, this presidential election will we very important. when you say what's the law, nobody knows what the law is going to be. somebody is going to appoint conservative judges and somebody will appoint liberal judges. >> i never understood the pro-life position. i think the principle, it's human life as people see it. but what crime is it? >> it's human life. >> should the woman be punished for having an abortion? >> look -- >> this is not something you can dodge. if you say it's it's a crime or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under the law. should abortion be punished? >> well, people in certain parts of the republican party and conservative republicans would say yes, they should be punished. >> how about you? >> i would say that it's a very serious problem. it's a problem that we have to decide on. >> you're for banning it.

>> are you going to say put them in jail? is that the punishment you're talking about? >> i'm asking you. you want to ban it. what's that mean? >> i am pro-life, yes. >> how do you ban abortion? how do you do it? >> you'll go back to a position like they had where people will perhaps go to illegal places. >> yeah. >> but you have to ban it. >> you ban it and they go to somebody who flunked out of medical school. >> are you catholic? >> yes. >> and how do you feel about the catholic church's position? >> i accept the teaching authority of my church on moral issues. >> but do you know their position on abortion? >> yes, i do. >> and do you concur with that position? >> i concur with their moral position. but here's my problem with it. >> let me ask you -- >> it's not funny. >> about your church. what do you say about your church? >> but the churches make their moral judgments but you running for president of the united states will be chief executive of the united states. do you believe in -- do you believe in punishment for abortion, yoes or no, as a principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, this has to be some

form. >> ten years, what? >> that i don't know. >> you take positions on everything else. >> i do take positions on everything else. it's a very complicated position. >> but you say you're pro-life. >> but the catholic church is pro-life. >> i'm not talking about my religion administrator i am talking about your religion. you say you're a very good catholic. >> i didn't say very good, i said i'm a catholic. secondly, you're running for president, i'm not. i'm asking you what should a woman face if she chooses to have an abortion. >> i'm not going to do that. i'm going going to play that game. >> game? you said you're pro-life. >> i am. >> this isn't spain, the church doesn't control the government. >> what is the punishment under the catholic church? >> let me give you something from the new testament. render under caesar's under caesar and the things that are god's under god. you just tell me what the law should be. you say you're pro-life. >> i am pro-life. >> what's that mean? >> with exceptions. i am pro-life. i have not determined what the

punishment would be. >> why not? when you decide to be pro-life you should have thought of it. here's my problem with this. if you don't have a punishment for abortion, i don't believe in it of course, people will find a way to have an abortion. >> you don't believe in what? >> i don't believe in punishing anybody for having an abortion. i think it's a woman's choice. >> so you're against the teachings of your church? >> i believe -- i have a view, a moral view, but i believe we live in a free country. i don't want to live in a country that it can stop a person from making that decision. that would be so stwinvasive. donald trump, you wouldn't be familiar with a society like that. >> you heard you speaking so highly about your religion and your church. your church is very, very strongly, as you know, pro-life. >> i know. >> what do you say to your church? >> i say i accept your moral authority. in the united states, the people make the decisions, the courts rule on what's in the constitution and we live by that. that's what i say. >> but you don't live by it because you don't accept it. you can't accept it. you can't accept it.

>> can we go back to matters of the law and running for president because matters of the law, what i'm talking about, and this is the difficult situation you placed yourself in. by saying you're pro-life, you mean you want to ban abortion. how do you ban abortion without some kind of sanction? then you get into that very tricky question of a sanction. a fine on human life which you call murder? >> it will have to be determined. >> imprisonment for a young woman who finds herself pregnant? >> it will have to be determined. >> what about the guy who gets her pregnant, is he responsible under the law for these abortions or is he not responsible for an abortion decision? >> it has different feelings, different people. i would say no. >> well, they're usually involved. anyway, much more from the audience here at the university of wisconsin green bay. we'll be right back. don't let dust and allergies get between you and life's beautiful moments. with flonase allergy relief, they wont.

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welcome back to green bay, wisconsin, for our exclusive town hall with donald trump. we're here at the university of wisconsin green bay. more from our audience. congratulations, grandpa. theodore, right? >> theodore james. >> speaking of being pro-life. >> right. >> go ahead, first question. >> mr. trump, i'm dana shrome. could you provide us a little bit of your position on the right to marry for gays and lesbians as well as if you'll continue the fight for equality for those individuals? >> well, the courts have decided so that's not a subject that's

come up. the courts decided. i would have preferred the states making the decision, but the courts have decided. >> just a quick furthermore, could you maybe talk about how you might increase equality for people of the transgender community? >> i would say that i'm going to go by the laws of the courts and the courts is really very much up in flux right now but i'll go by the laws. >> next question. go ahead. >> hi. >> hi, mr. trump. my name is chris colter. i'm wondering what your plan is for addressing rising tuition costs and student loan debt. would you support things as aggressive as, say, student loan forgiveness? >> i get this question more than any other question when i'm with young college students and they're absolutely up to their neck in debt and can't get jobs when they graduate even if they're good students in cases and don't know what to do. they're really stuck. we're going to work on plan where it's going to be extensions, be very low interest. we're going to work on it because something has to be done. chris, i get that question more than any other question is what are we going to do about student

debt? it's an enormous problem in this country. and the biggest part of the problem is they graduate from college, good colleges and can't get jobs so we're going to work on it. >> yeah. >> yes? >> my name's elena colt. i'm a retired veteran. >> good. >> i'm just wondering who your top military advisers are and who are your top veterans affairs advisor is. >> i really announced and i'm going to be announcing some at the end of this week. i announced a whole list. i gave it out last week. we have walid phares and some tremendous people and frankly as far as the vets are concerned, i thought when you started saying vet, i thought you were going to ask me another question because the vets in this country are being treated horribly. >> i agree. >> when you talk about illegal immigration, you talk about they're being treated worse in many cases than illegal immigrants. we're going to straighten it out and straighten it out fast. what's going on, it's corrupt, the veterans administration and it's incompetently run, so i can tell you as a vet, you're going to be very, very happy with trump. >> thank you very much.

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>> thank you. >> as a fellow politician, some of us are embarrassed about the decorum of this campaign and just the attitudes and the flavor that this has taken. i'm wondering what you can do as the front-runner of the republican party to really elevate the issues and get away from some of the this pettiness that we've been experiencing. >> first of all, congratulations, 14 years as mayor of green bay. that's a great honor. we have very hard issues. we talk about them. i'd much rather talk about the issues than the kind of things that are brought up. things get brought up. and sometimes they get brought up because it's me, and sometimes they get brought up for a lot of other reasons, but i think it's very important that we elevate the conversation and i agree with you 100%, i would much rather be discussing nuclear and all of the other issues that we're discussing than the kind of things that you're referringo. thank you, mr. mayor. >> hello. >> how are you? >> good. my name is shana, i'm a professor here at the

communication department. >> good. >> so my question for you is around prison reform. what do you see needs to be reformed with our prison system, and with that, what do you think about drug legalization? playing into the reform. >> i think that as far as drug legalization, we talk about marijuana and in terms of medical, i think i am basically for that. i've heard some wonderful things in terms of medical. i'm watching colorado very carefully. see what's happening out there. i'm getting some very negative reports. i'm getting some okay reports. but i'm getting some very negative reports coming out of colorado as to what's happening, so we'll see what happens. i think a lot of people are really looking at colorado. for prison reform, i think -- as you know, our prison system is a disaster. it's a complete disaster. all over the country, almost everything we have, chris, if you want to know the truth is a disaster. >> really? america's not bad. >> our military has been depleted. we have a lot of problems. okay.

>> why does everybody want to come here if we're not great? everybody in the world wants to come here. everybody does better in this country than where they came from. everybody. >> other people have problems, too. >> i think we're better than that. >> with prisons, we can do a lot of privatizations and private prisons. it seems to work a lot better. >> what are the problems you've heard about colorado? everybody wonders about it, who do you want smoking dope? do you want your train conductor, the bus driver, the airplane pilot? no. maybe the guy who teaches philosophy, it might be okay. does anybody trust anybody who's high to do anything? i'm serious about this. it's not -- recreational drugs, what does that mean? >> there's a lasting negative impact. i mean, you do -- >> the loss of ambition. >> yeah. >> i think is there. >> there's a loss of something. so that book has not been written yet, but it's going it be written pretty soon. i'm not hearing very positive things. >> hi. >> yes, hi. >> my name is michael. my question is, you're on the record saying there might be riots in the event that you're not the republican party nominee. >> by the way, i hope not.

>> no, i hope not, too.asking a >> won't be led by me but will be a lot of unhappy people. >> in the event a brokered convention doesn't award the nomination to you, does your campaign have any programs or plans to mitigate violence among your supporters? >> we'll have definitely the largest number of votes no matter what happens, the largest number of votes and definitely the number of delegates by far, nobody is going to be close. will we get to 1,237? i think so. i do believe we will. i hope we will. it will be very nice. i'll do a very good job. but i think we will. if we don't, i can't really tell you what happens. look, people are being disenfranchised in this country. they looked at me as somebody and they look at me as somebody that's going to bring them back. we haven't had -- you haven't had a real salary increase, if you're a blue-collar worker, in over 12 years. it's getting worse and worse and worse. these are smart people. these are people that have always had good jobs. their jobs have been taken away. they've been sent over to china,

mexico, and many other countries and they're not doing as well as they were doing 12 and 15 years ago. i will bring that back. and they know i will bring that back. and i'm the only one that's going to bring it back. i'm the only one that understands the subject, and frankly, i'm the only one that really even talks about the subject and i think you're going to have some people that are going to be very, very upset if i'm leading. now, if i'm not leading, somebody else has more votes, somebody else has more delegates, that's a different thing. if i'm leading by a lot and let's say i'm a little bit short of that number, and i told you before, that number is a little bit fictitious because i'm not running against one or two people. right now i am. for the last six months we've been running against many, many people. >> yeah. >> so it's really a very unfair standard. but if i'm a little bit short, but i'm millions of votes and hundreds of delegates ahead of other people, i think you're going to have some very unhappy people. i hope nothing bad happens, but i think you're going to have some very, very angry and unhappy people. >> what will you be? >> i think -- >> what will you say to the

american people who voted for you in that moment? >> i can't say yet because that's a very emotional situation you're talking about. i can't really tell you what i will do or what i'll say. i can say this. if i'm way ahead by all counts, if i'm way ahead, i would be very disappointed. you know, we're supposed to be a democracy. the louisiana thing is a terrible thing. i told you before. i won and i end up with less delegates -- >> who do you trust in the republican leadership? suppose you come in around 1,150, you think that's a gimme, they says not, it's too far away from the cut. who do you go to? you go to john kasich say, john, i need a v.p., i need delegates. it will get you over the top. >> i don't want to reveal what i may do. i may -- >> you said you may use nuclear weapons but can't tell me how you're going to operate the convention? >> i didn't say -- i never rule -- from a negotiating standpoint -- >> okay, do you trust anybody, do you trust reince priebus to play it fair? >> do i trust anybody? let's put it that way. >> do you trust mitt romney not trying to go in there and grab it back? >> i don't trust mitt romney.

mitt romney was disgraced. he should have won that election. >> he's trying to get it i hear. >> he's knotted not going to get it. he should have won that election. mitt romney let us down. that's an election that should have been won. he choked. he went away. he choked. just like a dog. he choked. >> you're good at this. >> no, i'm not good at it, i'm just telling you the facts. >> were you the guy who gave people nicknames in high school? >> no, but i give nicknames right now. >> big ears. little hands. that was you, i'm sorry. we'll be right back with more of donald trump in just a minute. when you think about success, what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous studen is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is,

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we're back with donald trump for just a couple more minutes. i want to give you a chance here because a couple things in this campaign you said have grabbed me and i thought were powerful. i want you to take a minute. i'll give you a break here just to do it. either we have a country or we don't. >> right. >> what did you mean by that? >> we have to have borders. we can't let people walk in and out of our country like we do right now. we don't have borders. people are pouring into the country. the border patrol just today endorsed me. that's a big endorsement. >> what do they think of this wall idea? >> they like the wall and like to be given their strength back. these are great people, these are people who can do the job but not allowed to do it. >> you're asking the mexican government to put a wall up to keep its own people in. >> no, no, we're putting a wall up. >> they're going to pay for it. they're going to pay for our wall to keep their people in their country.

this could be like the berlin wall, only time to build a wall to keep your own people in. why would any country pay to keep its own people in? it's never happened except the berlin wall. >> we have a trade deficit with mexico, $58 billion a year. the wall is going to cost approximately $10 billion. believe me, they will pay in one form or another. >> if not, or else what? >> they could stop a lot of the problem. if you want to become a citizen of mexico, you want to get into mexico, it is impossible. >> i know. i'm not saying they're not hypocritical. >> let me just tell you -- >> i know that. >> -- they could stop a lot of problems we're having by themselves. they don't choose to do it. not right. and we have a trade deficit, $58 billion -- >> so we cut off -- >> they'll pay for the wall. >> this is your strategy in every case. we can walk. no more trade. >> you have to -- >> no more trade with mexico. >> absolutely. >> no more troops in europe. >> by the way, when i say no more trade, once they know that you are really willing to go that extra length, there will always be trade, but we'll make good deals. we're making --

>> the bottom line is always we walk. >> you have to be able to walk. yes. it's unlikely that you'll have to, but you have to be able to walk. >> these could be very tricky. anyway, thank you. >> thank you very much. >> this argument will continue. so welcome to back-to-back front-runners night. tonight here on msnbc. chris matthews just hosted that town hall event in wisconsin with the republican party's front-runner, donald trump, and in just a moment we've got my interview with the democratic party's front-runner, hillary clinton. hillary clinton was here in new york today to do this event that you see here at the apollo theater in harlem. but let me just give you the peek behind the curtain here. let me be honest with you, show you how things go behind the scenes with these things because i think it's going to explain a little bit about what you're about to see.