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that is a lot! >> holy matzo. >> it's holy matzo, there we go. >> ted cruz in a matzo factory. good morning, everybody. it's friday. let's go to alex in the control room. i'd like your reaction. how did he do, alex? >> he did well. i'm jewish and i applauded his efforts. >> you felt it. >> okay, it's friday, april 8. with us on set, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. donny deutsch is with us, how did he do? >> representing the he brewic community, ted cruz in a matzo factory is -- like me being here, doesn't fit. >> you're here by marriage because we have to but we all kind of go ugh. former communications director for president george w. bush, nicolle wallace. how did he do? >> he did great. [ laughter ] >> lot of meds today. >> that's what the gentile says.

>> in washington pulitzer prize winning columnist in, associate editor of the "washington post," how did he do? >> bless his heart. >> so this great panel along with will he and me, joe will be here in a bit, he's taking a "morning joe" sabbatical which is about five minutes. >> did he get up at 5:20 instead of 4:10. >> he was trying to swipe his metro card. >> i think he's on the subway trying to use tokens. >> jam them in that slot. the debate over which democratic presidential candidate is qualified to hold the oval office continued all day yesterday. all day. hillary clinton said her opponent's remarks about her qualifications are "silly" and former president bill clinton agreed. >> he came right out and said he doesn't think you're qualified to be president. >> well, that will be up to the voters of new york and the other states that will be passing

judgment in the weeks ahead. i think it's kind of a silly statement but he's free to say whatever he chooses. >> is he qualified to be president? >> here's what i believe. i believe that voters will be looking at both of us, but i will take bernie sanders over donald trump or ted cruz any time. >> so silly, about what he said? >> what's your response? is she more qualified than he is? he s he qualified? >> the most qualified person to run for president in our primary since i've been voting. more than i was in '92. >> do you think he's qualified? >> no. i think that i will abide by what hillary said today. we shouldn't be distracted by this. we need to talk about these people and their future. i'm for what hillary said. >> all right, i should clarify, it continued all day because people kept asking about it all day. >> spoken like a true husband "whatever hillary said." >> i think it's such a silly argument in that the whole

premise -- >> maybe it's a silly question at this point but we keep asking it, i don't know why. >> theoretically, when you're banging the other candidate, the implication is they're not qualified. in reality the whole premise is "that person is not qualified, i am." the simple pivot is not as qualified but theoretically you're constantly saying "that person is doing this, stupid about this, wrong about that" implication they're not qualified for this job. >> but the answer to the question to cut it off is, is he qualified to be president? yes, he is, but i'm more qualified. next question. >> it's interesting. i thought the democratic party had a decent chance at contrasting itself against the republican contest. it went away yesterday. >> well, i mean -- there's still pretty big contrast. >> well, but in terms that they hadn't begun comparing -- >> comparing hand size. >> they hadn't begun tearing each other down with general election like attacks and i think that began yesterday. >> and what bernie sanders said two nights about about hillary

clinton on the stage when he said "she's not qualified and here are the five reasons" is a clip that can be used in the general election over and over and over again. even the most progressive democrats don't believe -- >> they're still talking about the issues. by the way, the voice of reason is senator sanders' spouse, she weighed in saying her husband as moved on. it almost like she was saying "move on, everybody." >> willing everybody. >> yes, including us from using the term unqualified while the senator himself said he would continue to fight back when attacked. >> you made a comment about hillary clinton being unqualified for the office of president. is that something you regret saying? >> well, it was said after she and her campaign said that i was unqualified. >> i didn't hear her say you were unqualified. i heard her fail to say you were qualified but she didn't say unqualified. >> well, look, the issue is after we won in wisconsin -- and that was our sixth victory in seven caucuses and primaries -- i think the clinton campaign has

been getting a little bit nervous and i think they have been getting more negative and i hope very much that we can have an issue-oriented campaign. there are a lot of of problems that the middle-class and working class in this country are facing. we should be talking about that. but if people attack me and distort my record, we will respond. >> now, i think they should all go back to the issues and deal with that and bernie -- bernie has moved on. he has said, okay, let's not use the word unqualified, let's use the word contrast. why do i think i'm better than her? they would take the country in very different directions, even though it seems like they're on the same page and that's what the secretary's campaign keeps on saying. they're on the same page. they're not on the same page. >> and that we will be asking the candidate about when he comes on the show in the next hour. actually, not going to be asking him about the qualified/unqualified. anyone who does can go because

i'm kind of -- it's a silly little fight. but the issues, we can go deep on with him. especially the "daily news" article. i'm going re-ask those questions because he came up short. i was surprised. i love the excitement around his message -- >> i thought the big part was okay, j.p. morgan has $102 billion in asset, 190,000 employees, they won, how do we break this thing up? no answer. >> that's interesting. and we have the honor of having him on and we will ask him real questions instead of -- >> you paid him to come on? that's the way it works. >> no, but when you say his name he raises money. it's amazing. very different than the way other candidates raise money. >> that was a joke. >> but the "daily news" article is actually how you got into that line of questioning about whether or not he's qualified to be president so it's good to re-ask and viewers can judge for themselves. you heard bernie and jane sanders trying to tamp down this unqualified talk yesterday but the sanders campaign is still

out beating this drum. jeff weeaver is the campaign manager. listen to what he had to say about hillary clinton. >> i think if you look at her campaign, her campaign is funded by millions and millions of dollars from wall street and other special interests. she's really made a deal with the devil and we know the self-wants his money in the end. that's the kind of campaign she's running. she's supported these terrible trade deals which have devastated american manufacturing in this country. she's supported the war in iraq. she continues to have a very, very hawkish foreign policy which has led to the rise and expansion of isis throughout the middle east. >> that's the opposite of tamping this down. he said she's made a deal with the devil taking wall street money. >> and the devil gets his money. >> basically implying she'll be in the pocket of wall street when she's president of the united states. and finishing that riff off by saying in effect her policies, along with those of president obama by implication, created isis. that's a pretty big charge. >> the other aspect of it that should be troubling to both elements of the campaign,

sander sanders campaign or clinton campaign. if you say anything or ask a question that has a negative connotation about bernie sanders you come under assault from the bernie bros, from the sanders campaign. >> well, welcome to life as a republican. if you say anything about donald trump or ted cruz you got all their haters on you before the words are out of your mouth. >> it makes you wonder how many of bernie sanders people, his followers, if he were not to get the nomination, would be okay with sliding over to support hillary clinton? >> the same dynamic on the republican side. what's so interesting to me this week is how much this race now mirrors the intensity of what's happening on the republican side. >> totally agree. >> and how the whole cycle is set apart on the right and the left with the tension between the outsider, the animator, the heart candidate in bernie sanders and trump and the establishment figure, the head candidate in cruz and clinton. >> and clinton not fighting back a lot and saying i would take

senator sanders over ted cruz any day. there's a fine line she has to walk. she can't lose those -- that sanders movement is huge. >> you talk about taking gloves off against sanders. the media has been very soft on him. >> i think you're right. >> basically on some level -- >> we missed it. >> we want anymore there. nobody wanted to give hillary a coronation six months ago. but conscious or subconsciously they kept him -- >> you mean they want him in the race. >> they want him in the race because there's no story. but up until now given how drastic some of his views are, he's gotten a light swing. >> gene, what i saw is us is missing the bernie sanders story -- us meaning the media, the movement -- kind of missing it and maybe correcting it and going easy on him. it's surprising we are this far down the line and a "new york daily news" article shows so many gaping holes that we need to be looking at with him.

i don't think it was purposeful. but i definitely feel i'm guilty of that. i feel like we completely missed the story and then we're like, oh, oh, we've got to cover him. >> i totally agree because he wasn't covered for a long time. he was bernie sanders, he was running for president, give me a break. and it turned out i think a lot of people in the media sort of woke up one day and bernie sanders is the guy for a huge chunk of the democratic party, including young voters and he's a phenomenon and then people started paying attention to what he was saying. i think frankly it is somewhat embarrassing that he had not been grilled in the way that the "new york daily news" did about the specifics of what do you do on day one? not that all the questioning from the "daily news" was perfect, right? because they kept asking about the fed and this and that.

but he -- shouldn't he have had a detailed day-one plan? how are we going to break up these banks and tear them into little pieces. >> gene, substitute the name "trump" for "bernie sanders" and you've got two swings and misses by the media. >> or cruz, cruz hasn't been vetted, either. >> absolutely. >> here's paul krugman in the "new york times." "it's one thing for the bernie sanders campaign to point to hillary clinton's wall street connections, which are real, although the question should be whether they have distorted her positions, but recent attacks on mrs. clinton as a tool of the fossil fuel industry are just plain dishonest and speak of a campaign that has lost its ethical moorings. then there was wednesday's rant about how mrs. clinton is not qualified to be president." it does seem like he is now getting his time in the sun, close to it, and we'll see how he does. he's been winning.

go ahead, willie. let's talk about bill clinton's exchange on the trail yesterday. >> incredible. >> a heated exchange with protesters of the black lives matter movement during an event in philadelphia. the interaction spanned more than 10 minutes. 42nd president fighting back against criticism of his 1994 crime bill. . >> here's the thing, i like protesters but the ones that won't let you answer are afraid of the truth. that's simple. be afraid. be very, very afraid. here's what happened. let's just tell the whole story. when i became president the headlines in the newspapers were full -- now, wait a minute, i listened to you, you listen to me. you know what else you don't want to hear? because of that bill we had a 25 year low in crime, a 33 low in the murder rate and listen to this, because of that and the background check law we had a 46-year low in the deaths of people by gun violence and who

do you think those lives that mattered? whose lives were saved that mattered? [ cheers and applause ] >> secretary clinton herself also was targeted by the protesters with one holding up a sign that reads "black youth are not superpredators." in the 1990s when secretary clinton was defending her husband bill's record she went on record using that term to refer to gang members, a choice of words she has since said she regrets. >> i don't know how you would characterize the gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack and sent them out on to the street to murder other african-american children. maybe you thought they were good citizens. she didn't. [ cheers and applause ] she didn't. you are defending the people who killed the lives you say matter. >> just for a little more context, it was in 1994 that hillary clinton was talking about the crime bill, defending it and said we have to bring these superpredators, talking about young people in gangs, she said we have to bring them to

heel. that's some phraseology that she said she regretted? >> what's wrong with those words, by the way? >> well, in today's times i think they're pretty charged so it was interesting -- >> with all the tension between police and the communities across the country. >> this is the problem with politics today. bill clinton was so right in what he said there in his rejoinder to the crowd. my first -- the first time i heard the word "crack" and knew what crack was was in 1986 at the desire housing project in new orleans, louisiana. and for a period of nearly ten years large elements of the black community and major american cities were decimated by crack usage and crack sales. >> oakland, california, where i grew up same time, same stuff. >> gene robinson, i think it would be one thing if in 1994 she had called all black kbroout sup -- youth superpredators but she's talking specifically about people in gangs so to people who might be watching this today are saying i don't get why that's offensive. >> i think one thing we've

learned from the primary season so far is that hillary clinton has a lot of really durable support among african-americans. and so i think this is politically not terribly important going forward. i think black voters will be energized if she's the nominee, they're going to come out and vote for her. and we can do the whole show on african-american communities and policing and various -- and various views of how you do that and how much that is needed but i don't think she has a lot to worry about and i think if the clintons have to go all the way to sister soldja they will, right? >> let's flip over the the republican side. john kasich and ted cruz spent yesterday campaigning across new york state. kasich met in the bronx by a crush of cameras from the city press corps as he took a bite out of a deli sandwich. across the city, ted cruz -- >> so much eating. [ laughter ] >> ted cruz got a spirited

welcome in brooklyn, speaking to members of the jewish community there. he visited a model matzo kitchen, rolling out doug with thr -- doug with three-year-olds. he did his best to sing along with the group but he and governor spent the day making the case they are the only ones who are viable general election candidates. [ laughter ] >> it's just ridiculous. >> let's drink in in for a minute. >> just stop. >> governor kasich krasted cruz's new york views comment on the trail and his super pac went even further on the air. >> we love new york values, it's a great place. i love new york. >> what does it mean? >> new york means innovation, neighborhoods, great food, great people. it means everything. >> new yorkers aren't stupid, ted. after we were hit, we rallied, rebuilt, but remembered. we tell it like it is. that's who we are.

so when you smear new york values in iowa for votes, we remember that, too. now you come here and conveniently say you love new york. forget about it, ted. >> what do we do if we come to september or october and it's trump versus hillary? and i would say, look, the first thing we would do is weep. but there is something even more fundamental. we prevent that from happening. >> meanwhile, some new yorkers are less than thrilled to have senator cruz in their backyard. congressman peter king has never been shy, yesterday no exception. >> let me say one thing about the new york primary. any new yorker who even thinks of voting for ted cruz -- >> oh, boy, here we go. >> really. here's a guy who refused to sign on to the 9/11 health care act for the cops and firemen. here's a guy who talks about new

york values, we're tough and to have some guy like ted cruz with cowboy boots walking around criticizing us, i hope he gets the cold shoulder and other things from every new yorker. send him back where he belongs. he's a phony. and that was all off the record, by the way. i didn't want anyone listening to that. >> yeah, i can tell. it's nice you're not fired up about it, too. >> i just can't stand that guy. >> welcome to new york. >> "i just can't stand that guy." that was on the joe piscopo radio show. >> a.m. 970. >> also weighing in yesterday, former new york city mayor rudy giuliani. he told the "new york post" "i support trump, i'm gonna vote for trump." but a spokesperson later added giuliani had not made an official endorsement because he won't be doing campaigning on trump's behalf. >> well, we kind of knew that, right? but is that a half endorsement? who cares about endorsements? they don't mean anything.

>> i saw about a half dozen republican consultants yesterday and they're working -- they're not working the presidential races but just about everything else. they're working on senate races, house races, this is the real debate. this is -- with ted cruz i think he might have some ability to hold together the coalition, he's conservative, but they believe there's 100% chance he would lose and then the trump calculation is -- >> lose with cruz. >> but keep some sort of coalition of conservatives. but with trump there's a wild fact factor that there's a 95% chance we lose. so this is the grim conversation going on about the state of this race and i think pete king and rudy reveal that in their choices. >> oh, lordy. we have so much more politics to get to. >> it's fun. >> it's fascinating. >> it's crazy. >> fun, mike? >> half dozen republican consultants yesterday afternoon, how did you manage to escape? >> we have secret meetings, we're all in witness protection. >> how's even feeling.

>> we had -- there was no alcohol. but, no, i mean people are still having to do their jobs, people are still having to run senate races, run house races, work for -- you know, the sort of reviled republican establishment does march on try dog their best work for their clients in this very difficult climate but the notion that it's this dire is no lie. i mean, the choices that they face, both of them almost certainly guarantee failure. >> more politics ahead to cover. we haven't even scratched the surface but we want to get to other stories making headline this is morning. police are asking for the public's help in identifying a suspect in the murder of a freshman at the university of texas at austin. 18-year-old dance major haruka wiser was last seen leaving a campus building on sunday night. she was reported missing monday. on tuesday her body was discovered in a creek on campus. police use an arrow to point out the man in this surveillance video seen with a pink bike at about the same time the student

was last seen on sunday night. now to news from the fbi. director james comey says the bureau brought a tool from third party developer to unlock an iphone owned by one of the san bernardino shooters. apple and the fbi had gone back and forth for weeks over the locked phone which that in itself seemed kind of silly, like this could have been done. apple refusing to create a back door citing privacy issues, comey insists the tool will work only on a narrow slice of phones and not on newer models. finally, british prime minister david cameron spoke out yesterday on his late father's offshore trust, now embroiled in the panama papers scandal. >> it wasn't a family trust. it wasn't for the benefit of one particular family. anyone could have bought units in it. and crucially if you were a uk citizen and bought units in it then you paid income tax on the dividends and you paid corporate -- capital gains tax when you solved a share so

you're subject to full uk taxation. so that's what it was. there are many other unit trusts like it and i think it's being unfairly described in my father's name as being unfairly written about. >> cameron says the trust was not set up to avoid taxation and it was properly audited. while cameron acknowledged he profited, selling about 5,000 shares worth $42,000 in 2010, he has paid all taxes. still ahead on "morning joe," gene, you write this morning it ought to be hard for the eventual democratic nominee to lose. more clinton/sanders nastiness just might do the trick. we'll talk to senator bernie sanders and much, much more. we'll be joined by richard haass, walter isaacson as well as the moderator of "meet the press." you're watching "morning joe," we'll be right back.

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. gorgeous sunrise over washington, d.c. wake up, everybody.

time to go to work. here's the good news. it's friday, right. donald trump is rewarming his campaign structure, releasing a statement yesterday that expands the role of veteran strategist paul manafort, hired ten daysing too marshal trump's delegate strategy. in a rare interview, manafort told the "new york times" -- >> wow. >> an al hague statement, hu? >> i'm in charge. campaign manager corey lewandowski also commented to the paper saying he and aid micha michael glasser in continue to run the campaign including the overall strategy.

manafort will be leading outreach efforts in a washington, d.c. office. trump canceled a planned trip to california yesterday to focus on his new york campaign. so you would think new york -- not complete -- but interesting that he would cancel a trip to california, which is down the road as well. important. no? >> you know, these staff stories are so interesting to me as a former staffer because it's not about the staffers, it's about the leader. if trump's brand is that he would bring the best people to bear and that they would work really well together, i don't think that's a test he's passed yet and even this story reveals obvious turfiness between the existing team. >> but at least there's a team? >> yeah, i don't think anyone thinks it's the best team. >> nicolle, to that point, you know this better than anybody -- >> isn't he winning? >> if you lined up the top 20 republican consultants you've met, would any of them work for

trump. >> that's not the point. trump picks his people. >> but i'm asking you. is part of the problem -- >> no, i think it still doesn't look -- when you announce a new person and in the press the tensions seep out, it wasn't stitched together well. and it's not the team's fault. it's not corey lewandowski's fault or paul manafort's fault. staff stories are never about the staff. they're about the person at the top. >> don't -- yeah. don't you think that every campaign, every big campaign at some level is a mirror reflection of the candidate himself? >> obama's campaign in '08 was perfect and obama deserves the credit for that. bush's '04 campaign was better than kerry's campaign. it gave us theirony in this. obama who was criticized he never ran anything before, he did a ceo job whereas trump, interestingly enough, who positioned himself, i've run huge corporations, is a very mom-and-pop organization.

that's the thing people don't understand. trump is not like ibm, it's a small -- it's a licensing company so he does not have that ceo type experience of running a vast network of people so the guy coming in who should be credentialized was not whereas the guy who has no credentials -- >> and cruz whatever you think of him is running a superior campaign. a superb campaign. >> yeah, i can toetsly agree with that. >> it's interesting on the level that paul manafort is so establishment. donald trump has been this anti-establishment campaign. manna ford has been on campaigns dating back to gerald ford. and it's interesting it's a recognition he needs someone to run his convention strategy. it's him saying okay, the way these numbers shake out, there's at least -- there's a greater than 50-50 chance that i'm going to have to fight at the convention for this and paul manafort will run that strategy. >> this comes and i'll throw this at gene. this comes at -- the so-called

campaign shakeup comes as a new survey shows a new low for donald trump. the new socialed press/gfk poll finds trump's favorable rating just 26% compared to 69% unfavorable for a net negative rating of 43 points. compare that with ted cruz who while also at 26% favorable has a net negative rating 10 points lower. but still, who is ted cruz? compared to hillary clinton and donald trump, that's an amazing number of unfavorables for ted cruz to gather given the fact he's not like an internationally known celebrity. he worked really hard. hillary clinton's net negative at minus 15 points, 40% favorable, 55% unfavorable. that's very unfavorable group of candidates. >> and what's ironic is -- the. >> the message is "deal with it,

america." this is what our two major parties have produced. candidates who a rot of the public just simply doesn't like and doesn't have confidence in. it's an extraordinary thing. this is just an extraordinary year. now, you know, when we get to the general election campaign i assume people are going to get excited about somebody, one hopes. but it's -- this is just weird. it's just weird. >> here's the irony. the country is on the wrong track yet obama's approval ratings are 52%. >> i think the interesting number -- not to focus in on ted cruz -- it is really interesting how high his unfavorable -- i honestly believe -- i think it's delivery. the people who don't know who he is watch him and they're like "ugh."

>> the 59% unfavorable is because not enough people have had exposure to him otherwise it would be 89%. [ rim shot ] >> is he well-liked in washington, puck in alcohol? [ laughter ] >> can you really not understand why we're all drinking at 11:00 a.m. look at hillary's number and we found the two most loathsome people -- nicolle explain -- >> i can't explain it. that's why i drink before noon. >> not why we're here. why from the point of view of insiders is he so loathed. ? >> so i have friends who've worked with him since the '04 campaign is he's an engenerous colleague. he'd go into the morning at 3:00 to make it look like he'd been

working about all night. he is so aware of how loathed he is there are sections in his own book that he wrote about how he became so loathed? >> and how did that happen? >> that's what i'm trying to get to. >> donny, he's nice is n real life. i'm serious. the way he talks in real life -- i'm talking about like you can connect with this person. >> and he's running an incredible campaign and he has a lovely wife and beautiful daughters. >> i can tell you as a communicator why he comes off loathsome. i want to know from the people, what is it that he does? >> there's never any sense that anything he does comes from a core so there's a sense he's coreless. his positions that he took on intelligence matters were seen as a craven play to out-rand paul rand paul. he's never seen as being a productive principled member of the u.s. senate, shutting down the government was to get to the entire field's right on obamacare. nothing he's ever done is seen

as pure in motive. and his personal animus toward the bush family and the sense that they did nothing engender any loyalty has left a terrible taste in most people in bush world's mouth. >> those a real reasons but in terms of performance talent you know there are very few people in the media who are have jobs them that have them on camera all the time who are themselves on the air off the air. those are true -- like gayle king. that's a true talent. joe has it. donald trump has it. >> let's not go crazy. >> joe does not have that talent. >> he definitely has it. that guy that you see when he gets to the podium, donald trump, same guy backstage, same guy in the lobby of his building, same guy talking to his wife. >> authentic. >> he's not like, "i must prepare, me, me, me, me, me, i'm going to be on stage."

ted cruz -- >> he should prepare a little bit, though, mika. >> he's two people and it's scary and people notice it and feel it. >> maybe he's just one person. maybe he's like that at home/. >> that would be horrific and sad for his family. [ laughter ] but he's actually a lovely guy. if that guy would get on stage i wouldn't be having this reaction like fingernails on a chalk board. i'm not the only one who feels that way. >> it's hillary's problem also. >> yes, but not so much. >> since nicolle's explanation where she used the word loathsome 14 times, he's gone from 59 to 65. >> he's running the best campaign in the cycle and it will test how far you can get with a truly, truly perfect campaign operation. pretty far is my guess. >> to mika's point. there is -- he does have an element of charm when you meet

him one on one. >> even more, actually. that's what's scary. >> and he's brilliant. really connectible. >> when you talk to people -- as we all have at the highest reaches of the republican party -- you say donald trump's name they might roll their eyes or laugh. when you say ted cruz's name, their eyes narrow and there's a visceral feel iing and that's n because of his delivery on the trail. >> for some reason people who endorsed him have used that. >> the word they use is bad guy. he's a bad guy, really bad guy. >> yet here he is. he has a shot to be the nominee. >> a good shot. coming up, an opening round unlike any other. i don't even -- >> my god -- >> avert your eyes. ernie els -- >> annen eig eight putt. >> i feel bad for ernie els. this was a historically bad moment on the first green yesterday. >> look at the body shots. >> a grown man trying to hit a ball in a hole. >> make it go away.

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after a bogey-free day at augusta. that kid is out of his mind. meanwhile, four-time major champion and world golf hall of famer ernie els -- i don't want to watch this. this is terrible. >> why would anyone want to watch this. >> he chipped within three feet of the pin figuring he was going to get up and down. the 46-year-old needed six putts to get it in. >> through the windmill. >> this is a psychological study or something, i don't know. els comes away with a master's record -- not the good kind -- scoring a nine on the par 4 first hole, that's the highest in the tournament's history. he finished with an eight over round of 80. >> you've done that drunk on the green. >> of course we've all done that. and what do you say after about three of them? "pick it up." >> do you watch golf, nicolle, how many showers a golf match?

>> it can i canbe six hours. >> who does that? >> guys and women that love golf love it. >> pool cue, get down on your knees. >> chevy chase. >> whatever. it's a strange sport. >> i hope ernie shoots like a 65 today. >> he'll need to shoot a 55. >> he won't make the weekend but i hope he has a good day. up next, a sense of entitlements. richard haass on the council of foreign relations. >> i'm sure he doesn't watch golf. >> i'm sure he does. >> he's going to talk about the debt and how it can impact our foreign policy for decades to come. he testified on capitol hill about all of this. we'll hear from richard next. mary buys a little lamb. one of millions of orders on this company's servers. accessible by thousands of suppliers and employees globally. but with cyber threats on the rise, mary's data could be under attack. with the help of the at&t network, a network that senses and mitigates cyber threats, their critical data is safer than ever. giving them the agility to be open & secure.

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safety doesn't come in a box. it's not a banner that goes on a wall. it's not something you do now and then. or when it's convenient. at bp, it's training and retraining in state-of-the-art simulators so we're better prepared for any situation.

it's giving offshore teams support from onshore experts, so we have extra sets of eyes on our wells. and it's empowering anyone to stop a job if something doesn't seem right. so everyone comes home safely. we're working every day at bp, to improve our training, our technology, our culture. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. there's a proposal to have one trillion dollars of new nuclear weapons systems in our country over the next 20 years. that's a crazy number, from my perspective. >> if we're talking about sending a trillion dollars over 20 years on nuclear systems

we're talking in ten years about spending over a trillion dollars a year on medicare. the spending that's driving the debt will not be defense, it's going to be entitlements, let's not kid ourselves. >> wow. that was the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass, on capitol hill, drilling down on the root causes of a soaring national debt. according to his analysis, the approaching $14 trillion debt is equal to roughly 75% of gdp and by 230 america's ious could far exceed what the nation earns and richard joins us now on the heels of his testimony before the senate foreign relations committee. those are staggering numbers and you say ultimately impacts national security. >> oh, absolutely. it's going to soak up all sorts of resources that normally we'd spend on other things. the next time we have a crisis either like 9/11, god forbid or the 2008 financial crisis, where's the cushion so we can do things like all sorts of fiscal stimulus, we won't be able to do it.

or just say we get in a crisis with china over taiwan. china is the single largest foreign holder of u.s. debt. are we 100% convinced the chinese might not sell or do something with american debt in order to put pressure on us so we back off one of our alliance commitments? you can go on and on and on. turns out what we think of as a domestic issues dealing with medicare and the rest, social security, is ultimately going to hamstring this country. >> is there anybody, richard, you talked to in washington maybe when you were just there who's serious about taking on entitlements head on. is there anybody willing to dive into that fray in a serious way? >> well, the cbo, the congressional budget office, keeps talking about it. senator corker, the chair of the senate foreign relations committee deserves credit for taking this hearing, taking an issue that's often not connected to national security but the short aner is no, willie. it's something of a third wheel and the danger is not just things like medicare, whiches the real driver but also interest rates are low. it's easy to think in 10, 20 years interest rates are probably going to be higher, far

more americans will have retired, far more americans will be consuming health care. this is going to be the greatest sponge and it will crowd out useful investment, whether it's the national institutes of health or infrastructure but politically this is a hot one to think about. >> so richard, any sensible, rational solution to this huge and growing problem that involves application of the "t" word, taxes. >> or means test cutting benefits in some way. >> either one. but in this political environment neither one is going to happen. so what happens? >> well, the -- i call this a slow motion crisis and slow motion crises are the hardest kinds of crises for democracy to work on. climate change is another. it doesn't seem that urgent. there's a million other things which are more urgent and oh, we can deal with that tomorrow. and the problem is you lose the chance to deal with it when it's not that bad and suddenly, boom. so whether it's dealing with spending or taxes, i think

changing above all the trajectory of medicare, means testing it as you say or moving away from fee for service, moving to a much more -- a much smarter approach to how we fund health care in this country. it's going to be so hard to get the reforms until the wolf is at the door. >> can i ask you, donald trump is talking about reducing the debt in mind bendingly fast amount of time. might he be the kind of person so willing to sort of knock over all the china in the -- you know, have you heard him say anything that sounds outside the box. >> what worries me is they're not talking about tackling entitlements and you don't want to deal with the debt quickly and put the economy in a tail spin. you want to start to deal with it now because you have a trajectory and you have plenty of time to do that. to be perfectly honest, no. the other thing people aren't talking about is economic growth. the best way to deal with the debt is to get the u.s. economy growing at 1.5%, which is anemic, is to get it growing at

2.5% or 3%. but people are rejected foreign trade, they're rejecting corporate tax reform, they're rejects infrastructure monetization, they're rejecting immigration and educational reform. >> so would part of this economic growth, the hopeful economic growth, would it involve borrowing money, a traditionally historically low interest rates right now, for a massive public works project to rebuild this country not another country? >> well, there's those who say take advantage of the low rates. you can do a lot of the infrastructure monitorization you want through public/private partnership. users can pay fees and so forth. i don't think we need that but infrastructure produces jobs which makes us more competitive and resilient. if there's terrorism, if there's storms, so infrastructure is one of those things democrats and republicans ought to be able to agree on. >> they should be. >> again, we are not. >> but this is washington. richard haass, thank you so much. coming up, is ted cruz simply outfoxing donald trump in

colorado? we'll explain that ahead. plus, senator bernie sanders joins us live after accusing hillary clinton of having chutzpah to stand by new york governor andrew cuomo on the new york minimum wage increase to $15 after she in the past backed just a $12 minimum wage. we'll talk to the vermont senator next on "morning joe." i love to take pictures that engage people and to connect us with the wonderment of nature. with the tiger image, the saliva coming off and you got this turning. that's why i need this kind of resolution and computing power. being able to use a pen like this on the screen directly with the image, it just gives me a different relationship to it and i can't do that on my mac. this is brilliant for me. whewhat does it look like?ss,

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>> because it's fantastic, i love new york, no matter where i am. >> was there a specific reason you came to the bronx? >> food. food. i was in queens last week, now i'm in the bronx. i don't set the schedule. these people they put me in a car and then they drive me and then they shout "get out and talk." and i don't have any idea where we go half the time. but of course i'm thrilled. are you kidding me? this is like -- this is like being so alive, being in new york. >> that's at least an honest answer. that's not like pretending to -- i don't know, i'm not going to say. look here who's here. look at this. by the way -- >> rock star. >> that's a birthday boy. >> today? today is your birthday? >> no, tomorrow but we have to say it today. >> should we sing it now? >> you want to? ♪ happy birthday to you --

>> nothing makes him less comfortable. >> really loud! come on. ♪ happy birthday dear joe, happy birthday to you ♪ >> i'll give him a hug. >> oh, no. no. >> you know you like to hug. >> give him a kiss. >> don't touch me. >> oh, there's stuff in his -- you have product in your hair. >> that's like the move as a kid when you go to tgi friday's and you lie and tell them it's your birthday. >> we're all going to chuck e. cheese tomorrow. >> coming up at the top of the hour, john kasich and ted cruz break bread in the bronx and brooklyn and get an introduction to new york city values. [ laughter ] yeah, yikes. plus, a man who needs no introduction to new york, senator bernie sanders. he joins us live in just a little bit. we'll be right back. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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>> bernie sanders's campaign claimed it never used hillary clinton's image or name in any ad but a fact-checking organization said that is actually false and i think we found out what they were talking about. you have to look closely but see where they snuck hillary into this ad. watch closely. ♪ let us be lovers, we'll marry or fortunes together ♪ ♪ i've got some real estate here in my bag ♪ [ laughter ] >> why? why? why do you do that? why? why do you scare me like that? >> that's terrible! >> they just make it as a frame? a frame and a half?

>> welcome back to "morning joe." no, i don't like that. it's friday, april 8, the day before your birthday. >> i'm feeling thirsty. >> you feeling old? >> yes, thank you very much. >> i am, too. just a number. >> but, of course, we have donny deutsch to make us feel better. >> wow. >> all that tanning had really taken its toll. >> oh, my gosh! have you guys been fighting for an hour? >> walter isaacson, ceo of the aspen institute and in washington, associate editor of the "washington post" eugene robinson is still with us. >> why have you been mean to donny? >> i took my kids to wally world and there's the sun -- >> you so use those -- i don't want that -- that mental image. >> i use those what? >> those tanning booths. >> are you kidding me? i just use self-tanner. i use lancome products. >> i bet you have one in your

house. remember his house where reshot the promo. >> you were in my bed. this is a fact, mika has been in my bed. >> what's going on in the campaign? >> yeah, let's go there. >> that's gross. >> but is that true or false. you want to hear something even creepier? you were in the room. how's how creepy it was. >> the creepiest thing was -- >> so was louis. >> while we were trying to film the promo we couldn't get that creepy picture that you have over your bed out of the shot. >> what's wrong with you? how old do you think you are? >> willie understands this. >> i don't know why he's here honestly. >> unfortunately, the gallery you go to is porn hog gallery so i don't know that willie's wife would let him use that picture over his bed. >> comfortable bed. >> senator bernie sanders will be joining us on set in a few minutes. >> i bet he's glad about that.

>> the debate over which presidential candidate, democratic, is qualified to hold the oval office continued all day yesterday because reporters kept asking about it. hillary clinton panned her opponents' remarks as "silly" and the sanders campaign was eager to keep up the contrast between two candidates. >> came right out and said he doesn't think you're qualified to be president. >> well, that will be up to the voters of new york and the other states that will be passing judgment in the weeks ahead. i think it's a silly statement but he's free to say whatever he chooses. >> is he qualified to be president? >> here's what i believe. i believe voters will be looking at both of us but i will take bernie sanders over donald trump or ted cruz any time. >> you made a comment about hillary clinton being unqualified for the office of president. is that something you regret saying? >> well, it was said after she and her campaign said that i was unqualified. >> well, i didn't hear her say

you were unqualified. i heard her fail to say you were qualified. but she didn't say unqualified. >> well, look, the issue is after we won in wisconsin -- and that was our sixth victory in seven caucuses and primaries -- i think the clinton campaign has been getting a little bit nervous and i think they have been getting more negative and i hope very much that we can have an issue-oriented campaign. there are a whole lot of problems that the middle-class and working class of this country are facing. we should be talking about that. but if people attack me and distort my record, we will respond. >> now, i think they should all go back to tissues and deal with that and bernie has moved on. i mean, he has said okay, let's not use the word unqualified, let's use the word contrast. why do i think i'm better than her? they would take the country in very different directions, even though it seems like they're on the same page, and that's what the secretary's campaign keeps on saying.

they're on the same page. they're not on the same page. >> you know, willie, this democratic campaign compared to the republican campaign reminds me of that simpson's episode where itchy and scratchy start getting along. they sip tea and the kids all walk away. it's gotten really ugly suddenly in new york state and i wonder if it's because bernie won in wisconsin, knows he needs to win in new york and he's doing what people have been saying he needed to do from the beginning, that is press her. >> be aggressive on the issues. >> there's been a pretense through the democratic campaign between them. i respect her, she respects him, we're different from the republicans, we're talking about the issues, i'd be happy with her, she's better than any republican out there. that's gone out the window. he said very explicitly on the stage two nights ago she is not qualified to be president of the united states. you can't take that back. it wasn't a one off on a ropeline. he laid out the case in a speech

why hillary clinton shouldn't be president. >> putting her in an uncomfortable position because you notice hillary clinton and her campaign are being nice about it, which is unusual. >> seven out of ten people under the age 306 a are voting for hi >> she doesn't want to alienate his movement. >> you've run some tough campaigns, maybe i'm a cynical new yorker, it doesn't seem very tough. >> it's -- >> saying somebody is unqualified is implied in everything you're saying. >> it's just a contrast for him. >> listen i wish in my campaigns all they'd done is said i'm unqualified in said of he may have been responsible for world war ii. >> but it's in contrast for a year. >> but it does show, walter isaacson, just how well-mannered these democratic candidates have been that this is the big tiff. >> i'm on willie's side. i grew up in louisiana, if one candidate called the other unqualified you'd think, wow, he's backing off. i think it's very civil and

there's a clear contrast between the two and it's -- you know, i think we're trying to gin something up on the democratic side to make it look like the incredible tweeting and fighting going on on the republican side and it's not really that comparable. >> and hillary's been fairly restrained through this whole process. >> and she was restrained on the bernie sanders thing recently. i think that's probably good. as donny said, you don't want to alienate his supporters. but it's not a smart attack, i don't think, to call her unqualified. she's been secretary of state. you can say all right, she'll take the country in the wrong direction, she's going to be -- you know -- >> have trust issues. >> problem with young voters, et cetera, et cetera. >> if you wanted to get at it hard it would be the trust and credibility issues not, geez, she hasn't qualified herself. >> have we shown the favorable/unfavorables in the last hour? >> we're going to do it again. >> holy moly. >> we're more impressed with ted

cruz's. >> that's historic. >> can you put those up right now? you talk about hillary and the problems that she has but, willie, everybody's been talking about donald trump. donald trump, highest unfavorable ratings ever, blah blah. they are. i mean, they're really bad. >> 69%. >> they're horrible. >> there they are. >> until you compare them to everybody else and krucruz is 5 hillary is 55%. if somebody doesn't think those numbers can't change over the next six months you have absolutely no idea about american politics. but look at that. and i just wondering, willie, why didn't bloomberg or somebody jump in? this is a historic chance for somebody to run an independent campaign against two people that are going to have the majority of americans disapprove of them. >> could somebody still? >> that's the frustration. those numbers for people like you and nicolle wallace, people

say look what we had, we had hillary clinton negative 55 unfavorable, her servers under fbi investigation and yet we found the two people who have lower favorables than she does. if one of -- one of those two guys will likely be the nominee. one who has 70% or one who has 60% megaive the. >> with all the polls there's only one candidate that we run against sanders and clinton and they beat them. that's john kasich. >> that never works that way. >> that's what the numbers say yet nothing goes in your direction. >> that's like picking your fantasy team baseball team in t fall the previous year before. >> right now he's the only candidate that beats hillary. so why is there nothing coalescing around him then? >> obviously he's not setting it on fire in the campaign trail. if he's not doing it now, he's not going to do in the the fall. gene robinson, let me bring you in here. by the way, gene, can i just thank you? the other night i tweeted this,

you were on a show -- >> i saw your tweet. >> and everybody around the table was calling donald trump a crypto fascist and america's -- the very fabric of america was being torn to shreds. the same thing we heard about bush, the same thing we heard about obama. the same thing we heard about clinton. but now everybody's saying that the end of the world is coming and we are going to be nazi germany or argentina. i loved your line. "i was in argentina, i know argentina, argentina is a friend of mine. america, you are no argentina." you know, gene, it really does -- i'll just say it, it pisss me off when the second a democrat gets elected republicans say "freedom has died tonight. they renamed a post office after tom smith." when it's a democrat in office, republicans say it, when there's a republican in office, democrats say it. now everybody is saying it about donald trump.

we have something called the constitution of the united states and if trump stepped out of line, i have news for everybody, he'd be impeached in a week. but thank you, gene, while everybody was screaming the world was coming to an end, you're like i think we're going to be fine. just breathe. >> well, we are bigger than that. we are bigger than donald trump. i covered chile when it was still under pinochet. we're not chile. so anyhow, thank you, i saw your tweet. appreciate it. >> let me ask you this about -- speaking of donald trump. he's right now at 69% disapprove and, of course, everybody's saying that will never move, just like everybody was saying in june he could never win the republican nomination because something like 60% of republicans said they would never vote for him. his disapproval was about the same, i think, on the republican side as it is there. do you believe that those numbers can move? do you believe hillary's

disapproval numbers can move? >> i think all those numbers can move. they can move in both directions. and so it could be -- i think you look at those numbers and number one, you know, as i said earlier, those numbers say deal with it america, you're not getting anybody you really want to vote for. [ laughter ] >> happy birthday, america. >> so you're just not getting it. so people will make their choices. if it comes down to -- you know, if comes down to trump and hillary i think, you know, 55% negative is better than 70% negative and she'll -- she might win a historic victory. donald trump has not -- you know, it's interesting, he's got his core support in the republican base and it doesn't go away. it's very solid. even in states that are unfriendly. he's going to get at least 35% and probably more. he's probably going to clean up in new york.

but that -- as that happens, he seems to -- his negatives seem to go up and a greater number of people seem to become convinced and determined that he should never be president. so as long as that keeps hardening, he's -- you know, how does he win? >> joe, along those lines, you used a great metaphor a few weeks ago, you said he's day trading which is to gene's point where that 35 sticks. you know donald well, i know him fairly well. why doesn't he just do that subtle pivot at this point? >> i think he is. >> show me where, where's the pivot? >> the thing we've said on the air constantly is he's got to stop tweeting non-stop, he's got to stop going up and just rambling at speeching, the beginning was the aipac speech, he did a policy speech. after he got beaten badly if wisconsin we expected a string of angry tweets and we didn't. we got a statement. that's what we said on the air. start putting out statements and

policy papers. they have to cover that, too. you have to have policy in policy papers. you saw he did that on the wall that most people mocked him for. how do you get mexico to pay for the wall? well, he got experts together and put something out there, a policy paper and they had to pick it apart. it's better than him going before an editorial board and saying "believe me." so i am seeing a subtle evolution -- >> but yet still donald. >> he can't lose his authenticity. >> and walter that's the trick so that a lot of people said oh, he still called ted cruz lying ted cruz. that's his brand. but he put it in a statement instead of next to trump meets and bottled water and there wasn't the circus atmosphere. >> it's true that every time he does something that people around this table say "he should never have done that" it helps him. >> define balance. >> so you can't change everything you do.

you have to put on the table whether the unfavorable numbers will change a lot. they will change. people know donald trump and they know hillary clinton pretty well. those brands are somewhat baked. you mentioned bloomberg, he felt he shouldn't get in. i've never seen a time more ripe for both the realignment and a possible opening if somebody can do it. it's just that the system doesn't make it particularly easy. >> no, it doesn't. i will say, donny, the difference between donald trump and hillary clinton's numbers, hillary clinton has been in this particular business for 40 years. donald trump has been a politician for six to nine months. again go back -- i don't know the exact numbers go back and look at donald trump's unfavorable ratings within the republican party in the summer.

see what percentage said they would never vote for donald trump under any circumstances, he's completely flipped those numbers around and i think when he's introduced to the general public in a bigger way if he wins the con vengs it's all up to him. it's all up to him and he can -- he has more growth in that category than anybody that's been in business for 40 years. >> the amount of people who have said to me "i'm just waiting for him to give me permission." i see a little subtlety you do but there has to be more. >> we'll continue this but we have bernie sanders on isaaisaa robinson, thank you so much. still ahead on "morning joe," the democratic race had been collegial but something shifted a tad bit. senator sanders joins us live on "morning joe" as the rhetoric takes a wee bit of a turn. we'll be right back.

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let's bring in democratic presidential candidate and u.s. senator from vermont, bernie sanders. you know what i loved about wisconsin is you won by 13

points, right? huge win, then you had a couple days to just sit back and relax. just take it all in, bernie, take it in. isn't it crazy. ? you win there. a huge win but then you're catapulted straight into the big apple. >> well, what i liked about wisconsin is we won in almost every county in the state right across the board. that was pretty good. >> what about there? what worked there that worked in michigan as well? >> it is a smaller state, not a very small state. we had the opportunity to go out and talk to tens of thousands of people. last week alone we had rallies with 35,000 people came out so i think we do well when we can speak to people in a -- in a meaningful way, not in a three-second soundbite. we're up there for an hour talking to people answering questions. it works well. >> you get to stay focused, too. you don't have to go to fund-raisers, you don't have to deal with that whole side of things. >> lets me say that we don't do those fund-raisers.

we've been extraordinarily lucky. i have not done a quote/unquote fund-raiser once. >> we have a joke you cough and raise a million dollars. >> excuse me, time out. [ coughing ] berniesanders.com. >> let me just say, as a former colleague, i did it as a favor. i just got you a million dollars. >> incredible. >> let's get -- first of all, there will be no questions about -- his wife said last night we are moving on. >> about what? >> if my wife says it, what can i say? >> we're moving on. >> you say i'm not qualified all the time. >> exactly. but here's the deal, everyone is saying this riff between hillary clinton and bernie sanders continues but then you show the soundbite and it's reporters asking the questions. >> oh, mika, you just discovered something! >> hello! stop it. now listen, there are -- i think there are a lot of people turned heads a little bit. the interview with the "new york daily news."

some answers they felt you came up short with, especially on your main message so i'll re-ask those questions. i'm literally taking the "daily news" interview and borrowing from this great interview. how would you go about breaking up the largest financial institutions in the country? >> you ready for the answers? you can do it in a couple ways. you can use section 121 of the dodd-frank legislation. and number two better, and i would prefer, is pass by legislation. and what my legislation and the legislation that i've introduced says that the secretary of the treasury will have the authority to investigate and determine which banks pose systemic risks to our economy, i.e., if they're too big to fail, they can bring down a significant part of the economy and within a period of time the secretary can break them up. >> so let me ask you that. by definition -- i'm going to

upset a lot of my friends -- but bank of america, j.p. morgan, you can go down the list, city. if any one of those banks went under tomorrow i don't care what anybody says, we'd be bailing them out again. i don't care what the legislation says, you've been there, i've been there, they stick a gun to your head and say you either vote yes or the entire economy will have to -- why are we still in that position eight years after 2008? >> this guy gave a better answer than i did. >> why are we still in that positioning? it's maddening. >> three out of the four largest banks in this country are bigger than when we bailed them out when they were too big to fail. so that's point number one. point number two is that when you have six financial institutions that today have assets of about -- equivalent to about 58% of the gdp of this country, they issue two-thirds of the credit cards and one-third of the mortgages,

don't you think that's a hell of a lot of economic and political power. >> nobody is going to let them go under. >> i don't disagree. another "new york daily news," what does a bank like j.p. morgan look like in year two of the sanders administration. >> and what i said is after they're broken up that is their decision to reconfigure how they want to do it. it's not the government's business. we tell you you can't be this big, you're too much of a danger go. from there, this is how big you can be. i won't run j.p. morgan. >> there a parallel between what the government did to the bells in the '70s and '80s and what you do to the banks? >> yes. just say you're too big. >> would you concede senator sanders that wall street banks play an important role in the united states, no matter what their size are in terms of employing people, managing people's public pensions? how do you -- how do you reconcile your position that they ought to be broken up with the important role they play in the economy? >> well, when they are that big, if they issue, the top six banks issue two-thirds of the credit cards and a third of the

mortgages, by definition they play an enormous role. but i think what we have got to say is that are they playing the kind of role that we need for small to medium-sized businesses in terms of providing the affordable credit that those businesses need to expand? and i think the answer is no. much of what wall street is about is figuring out how they can make more profits for themselves and in many ways they're an island unto themselves, like all these esoteric crazy rules that nobody understands to make more money for themselves. the goal -- and in this one i guess i'm conservative and i believe in old-fashioned boring banking. you make a deposit, you make a loan. the small or medium sized businesses, consumers who want to buy a home and car, that's my definition of what banking should be about. >> do you think it's good to have wall street banks managing public pensions, for example? >> i think it's an important role for them to play. >> on another issue, gun litigation. yesterday governor cuomo of new york with regard to your position says what he does is take a political stance on a

moral issue. so the question is why -- what other industry from this country receives immunity from litigation. >> let me say this and set the record straight. number one -- and i do get a little bit upset at this. the clinton campaign has been on this gun business for day one. i have a d-minus voting record for the nra. d-minus. number two, i come from a state that has virtually no gun control. you know something about that. number three, and this is important to understand, in 1988 before i was elected to congress i was in a race, three-way race, the gun lobby was against me that race because i said in 1988 that we should not have assault weapons sold or distributed in this country. i lost by three percentage points by running as an independent, republican won, democrat came in third place. i lost that race because i said

in 1988 let's ban assault weapons in this country. so to keep attacking me i think is unfair. now to answer your question, let me put it back to you. i am a gun shop owner in a rural area. you come in, you go through the instant background check, i sell you the gun, you flip out or two something and go out and shoot somebody. should i be held responsible for having sold you a legal product? >> is that the point of the litigation, though? >> yes. >> the point of the litigation it would seem to me is massive sales of guns in bulk. >> if that's the case, then of course my position is then that gun -- if you walk in and say, "bernie, give me 10,000 rounds of ammunition." or "i want to buy 47 assault weapons." should i be held responsible for selling you that? the answer is yes. >> i want to flip what the governor of new york said around a bit and look at in the the other direction. he said that you were taking a political position. it seems to me in the democratic primary on guns the safe

political decision would have been to change your position and actually tell the "daily news" what the "daily news" wanted to hear. why didn't you do that? >> well, i didn't because i try to be honest. but here is the issue and i want to pick this up. if a gun manufacturer -- and there are instances of this -- are selling guns to gun shops and we know that those guns are ending up in the hands of criminals, you know what? hold that manufacturer liable. but don't hold a gun shop owner who legally sells a product to somebody else liable because that person did something crazy. >> just to make sure, and we've been debating this since newtown. you do support a ban on gun shows without background check, right. >> of course i do. >> there is definitely -- >> let's go -- >> selling over the internet. just for people that don't know all of your positions, let's get them out on guns. you support stronger background checks. you support background checks at gun shows over the internet, et

cetera, et cetera. >> and the straw man provision so that if you walk in legally and buy a gun and sell it to criminals, that should be against the law. i very strongly support what president obama is trying to do. but i want to reiterate that back in 1988 i lost an election because i do not think it was a wise thing to have assault weapons being sold throughout this country. >> so you would be the first jewish president and i'm looking here at -- i don't know if this is new, have you heard he's going to the vatican. has this been revealed. >> you have the story here, mika. tell the world. >> tell me, you're going to be going to the vatican to talk about how to create a moral economy that works for all people rather than the top 1%? how did this come about? >> it was an invitation from the vatican. >> that's pretty good. >> that's kind of impressive. >> it is. >> [ laughter ] it is. i like that. >> has the pope invited you? >> he's not invited me. i am kind of offended because i've been going to 8:00 mass now

for -- >> last time i checked you're a catholic, too. >> so you've been invite bid the vatican to go over and speak. >> and i was very moved by the invitation which just was made public today. i am a big, big fan of the pope. obviously there are areas where we disagree, on women's rights or gay rights, but he has played an unbelievable role, an unbelievable role of injecting a moral consequence into the economy. and here's what he is saying. people think bernie sanders is radical. uh- uh-uh. read what the pope is writing. what he is saying is not only that we have to pay attention to what he called the dispossessed, and, again, we don't talk about it enough, these are the children who have no jobs all over the world, youth unemployment is off the charts, the elderly people who are watching this program now who are trying to get by on $11,000 a year. we don't talk about that. but you know what else? he's talking about the idolatry of money, the worship of money, the greed that's out there, how our whole culture is based on i

need more and more and more and i don't have to worry about veterans sleeping out on the street or elderly people who can't afford their prescription drugs. and he's trying to inject a sense of morality into how we do economics. >> trying to put a conscience into it. >> absolutely and we need that desperately. >> i assume you think part of that morality economically is raising the minimum wage and we've been talking about that in new york at $15, california as well, $15, the governor of the state of massachusetts, oregon, new york all been talking about that. what do you say to small business owners and other people who say if i've got to pay 15 bucks an hour i'm either going to have to lay people off or shut down by miz all together. >> well, first of all, serve going to have to be paying -- >> it's one thing i say to him if you pay $15 and you go $8 an hour. it goes up for the whole country, in umber one. >> to $15, senator? >> if i had my way. i want to say a couple things about this. number two, when we raise the minimum wage to a living wage,

you're putting money into the hands of people who in many instances don't have any disposable income right now. he's now getting $15, before he got $11, he has money to go shopping in her store and buy some goods and she can now hire somebody to do that. i understand the conservatives argue that point and i'm not going to tell you that there won't be some small businesses that will be impacted but i think overall for the economy putting cash into the hands of people who desperately need it will be a plus for the economy. i want to make a second point if i could on this $15 minimum wage. if we were sitting here -- let's be honest about this -- five years ago, willie, you said "i think we should raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour because $7.25 is starvation wage." would anybody have believed in a period of five years california, oregon, new york state and other cities would have done it? nobody would have believed that. here's my point. when i am criticized for being too ambitious talking about free tuition to public colleges or universities, rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, moving toward a medicare for all, i'm

criticized it's too big of an idea, too radical of an idea. but what happens when an idea catches fire? when people see the justice of that idea it moves very very quickly. what happened with the $15 minimum wage is people in the fast food industry, mcdonald's, burger king, wendy's, they went out on strike, they raised the issue and suddenly i have governors and city councils all over the country saying that's right. what my campaign is about is trying to inject that sense of urgency and bringing people together to say we can deal with incumbent wealth, inequality. we can deal with pay equity for women. we can deal with the fact that we have more people in jail than any other country on earth. if we get our act together, if we stand up and take on the big money and trusts we'll have so much power we can change america. >> let's go to foreign policy and talk about an issue that matter a lot to people, in my home state of florida but also here in new york and across the country and that is israel. do you believe, like many

diplomats, that the only way to at the end strike peace -- strike a peace deal between the israelis and the palestinians is moving back to pre-1967 borders? >> what i believe first of saul there are good people on both sides and there are political opportunists on both sides. number two, what i believe is as somebody who is jewish, who has lived in israel for a few months when i was a young man, who has family in israel is that of course the security of israel, the independence of israel, the right of israel to live in peace an security is paramount. but you have to recognize the plight of the palestinians. and i know that in america, in politics that maybe is not something that is said very often. but we're not going to have lasting peace unless we recognize that in gaza, for example, what the current situation there is deplorable, people living with horrific levels of poverty in an area

that has been the -- just annihilated. so what i think is, joe, you need a two-state solution and we'll argue about the details of that. >> but do you have an opinion on the pre-'67 borders? >> not at this point. not right now. >> do you believe, quickly, senator, that the plight of the palestinians you talk about was brought on in part by israel? >> look, israel has a right to protect itself from terrorism. the idea that in gaza weapons and missiles and bombs were being created is obviously unacceptable. do i think that israel reacted in a disproportionate way? i do. and in that same interview what i do not know the exact number but it turns out that according to the united nations, over 2,000 civilians were killed and some 10,000 people were wounded. i think that is an understanding

that there was a war, i think that was a disproportionate reaction. >> paul krugman raises an issue about the increasingly vitriolic tone of the campaign on both sides. >> i think vitriolic is probably too strong a word. >> we've never known paul krugman to overreach rhetorically. >> stop it! >> he's not good at debating. >> we have a minute. >> we can't overreach rhetorically, but go ahead. >> we'll get a reaction to whether he overreached or not. "recent attacks on mrs. clinton as a tool of the fossil fuel industry are plain dishonest and speak of a campaign" -- yours -- "that has lost itself ethical moorings." >> wow, you're in trouble. >> we get attacked every single day. i've been called a protector of the nra. the clinton campaign said i want to dismember american health care and leave people without medicaid or medicare. that i am attacked pld wh eed p parenthood when i think planned parenthood is one of the great organizations in this country.

there was a headline in the "washington post" just the other day "clinton questions whether sanders is qualified to be president." to say that, you know -- how often have i talked about hillary clinton's e-mails? have you heard me? not a word. how often have i talked about the clinton foundation's fund raising? have you heard me say one word about it during the campaign? to say that i am running a vitriolic campaign. >> why haven't you? [ laughter ] >> you'd make our job easier. >> some of them are legitimate questions. >> they are, but i am trying to stay away from personal attacks. so when i get attacked for being unqualified and when i respond by saying well, you know, hillary clinton voted for the war in iraq, she voted for all these disastrous trade agreements, she's raising millions and millions of dollars from wall street and other special interests, oh, my goodness, isn't that a vitriolic attack? i don't think so. >> since you say that, senator, that when she was up to be secretary of state you said of her "clinton is one of the brightest people in congress, she would be an excellent choice."

at that point she had voted for the iraq war and the trade deals, what changed since then? >> she's running for president now, that's what changed. i think she is very bright and i won't get dragged into telling you something that is not true. i've known her for 25 years, i respect her. but if i am being attacked day after day after day, if what the clinton -- what the clinton campaign basically says we lost in wisconsin, we've lost six out of the last seven states, we have to go negative. that's their new strategy. what am i supposed to do sit back and say, hey, i come from a small state, we're nice people. we have to fight back. i hope -- let me be clear on this. let's get back to the issues. hillary clinton and i have strong disagreements. that's not debating the issues. >> and there will be a debate and jane pointing out -- we did not bring it up. . hi, jane. >> we didn't bring it up. >> senator bernie sanders, thank you so much. great to have you on the show. >> thanks, senator. >> always great to see you. >> we'll be right back with

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a lot to dissect from our conversation with bernie sanders. that was interesting. >> that was great, he's going to the vatican. >> yes, he's been invited to speak about a moral economy. i love it. we'rgoing to bring in -- >> if there were 6 billion people invited, you would not be

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all right, it's 46 past the hour. something's different around here. >> what's that? >> i don't know, it's like the orange lighting. joining us now in washington, nbc news political director and moderator of "meet the press" and host of "mtp daily" chuck todd. and on set msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt covering the sanders campaign. >> were you making a reference to her jacket being snorng. >> that, too is orange. i probably just noticed it and it was like three months. >> if chris were here he would say "mama's cuckoo. ". >> no it's friday. >> chuck todd, how are you doing today? >> i'm great. >> good. bernie sanders, we had him on -- >> wow. >> riveting conversation, by the way. >> we just had bernie sanders on who seems to still be a bit more

aggressive towards hillary clinton than he's been in the past since -- is this a calculation? >> it may be and, frankly, look, it should be. on one hand, you know, there's been a lot of like, hand wringing from the clinton campaign from some other democrats going why is this race getting nasty here toward the end but at the end of the day this is -- i think bernie sanders is calculating that this is his last stand. you know, this is his last realistic chance. pull the upset in new york and he's got a path again. but if he doesn't, it's done. so don't you leave it all out on the field? don't you just throw it all out there? >> and, chuck, is this really a nasty campaign? the democrats are saying this is a nasty campaign? >> this is a normal campaign. >> they need to peek over the fence at their neighbors, how that one is looking. >> please don't do that. >> this is a normal campaign. look, obama/clinton was much -- you could argue that was nastier at times.

it got very personal. we're talking about how personal things are getting here. please. >> no. >> this is nothing compared to eight years ago. >> you know what i see? i've seen the clinton campaign knows how to play rough and they have. i mean, you remember against candidate obama -- >> i don't think they've played that rough against sanders, do you no? >> no, but against obama they certainly did. >> they absolutely play rough when they want to. here's where they don't here. because they can not turn off bernie sanders supporters. there are too many of them and the message is too important to the american people so they're in an awkward position. meanwhile, bernie sanders is trying to say you know what? these are my people and they're not hers. >> i will say, kasie, bernie saying that the clinton campaign is being overly negative against him doesn't ring true, either, because we tried to get hillary clinton to say three or four times that he was unqualified. george stephanopoulos tried to get her to say the same thing. she's not taking the bait. she seems to be taking the high

road. >> she has to take the high road to a certain extent. all of the energy and excitement is with him in the democratic party. she goes too far against him, she risks a lot and i a lot. i think you've seen that flare up from time to time when she got angry at that questioner, the greenpeace activist who asked her about fossil fuels, you saw her jump on that. i think that's how she really feels, but she has to stay constrained because his supporters are so intense. >> let's quickly get to the republicans. chuck todd, ted cruz and the matza factory how did he do? >> watching all of the new york campaigning has been a little over the top. >> wow. >> cruz is at a matza factory, i thought it was fine, but we are sort of going over the top here, everybody is, to say look at how new york we are, new york values. in all honesties cruz does have to live down new york values and it's going to be a tough ten days for him. >> kasie, it's got to be tough

for ted cruz after attacking new york values. trump is in his backyard here. >> he clearly is. you saw when he walked into a rally on long island and say, hey, it's great to be home. this is where i am. and i think everything that we've talked about as far as ted cruz in a general election in many ways applies here to the republican -- >> trump is going to win real big in new york. >> you think so. >> >> i think its 52 will go up to 58, 60. going back to bernie for a second i would go all in against hillary. he is bulletproof for the reason we're talking about. i would go into the e-mails. >> i think he just did. >> he said i'm not doing it but just mentioning it. >> i think he just did. >> not doing it, but i could. >> i would go all in at this point. >> as judges like to say when evidence gets out of the courtroom that shouldn't get out of the courtroom. >> ignore it. >> you can't unring that bell. >> chuck todd. >> the bell was running. >> what do you have coming up on "meet the press" this sunday? >> well, we will be having the first sunday interview with paul

manafort, the guy who is coming on to help run the convention apparently for the trump campaign, we will have bernie sanders. got a couple other things we're working on. >> chuck, ask him who is in charge of the campaign. ask him who is in charge of the campaign. >> yeah, that is among -- there's a lot of questions there for him in there. >> thank you very much, chuck. we will be watching that of course. kasie hunt, thank you as well. still ahead, british prime minister david cameron is accused of hypocrisy in the of the panama paper scandal. how he explains the money he made from his dad's offshore trust. we are back in a moment. intelligent one. ♪ the all-new audi a4, with available virtual cockpit. ♪

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up next, more evidence that this is one of the most unpopular president presidential fields ever. >> we don't need evidence, we know. >> ever. and it's not just donald trump and hillary clinton. we have a feeling eating more matza won't fix the problem. just think about it, he is not a celebrity, he hasn't been around that long and yet his unfavorables rival the other two. now, that's a feat. >> what else is next, haek. senator sanders defends his recent attacks on hillary clinton's record. we will play for you part of our extended conversation with the presidential candidate ahead on "morning joe." forks

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that is a lot of matza. >> holy matza. >> it's holy matza. there we go. >> ted cruz in a matza factory. good morning, everybody, it is friday. let's go to alex coursen in the control room. i'd like your reaction. how did you do? alex? >> he did well. i'm jewish and i applauded his efforts. >> you felt it? >> yeah. >> it's friday, april 8th. with us on set we have msnbc contribute sh mike barnicle, donny deutsch is with us. how did he do? >> represented a great community. i don't know. ted cruz in a matza factory is kind of like me being here, it just doesn't fit. >> exactly. you're here by marriage because we have to but we all kind of go uh. former communications director

for president george w. bush nicolle wallace, how did he do? >> he did great. >> a lot of meds today? >> and in washington pulitzer prize columnist and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. how did he do? >> bless his heart. >> or as we say -- >> yeah. the gate over which democratic presidential candidate is qualified to hold the oval office continued all day yesterday. all day. hillary clinton said her opponent's remarks about her qualifications are, quote, silly and former president bill clinton agreed. >> came you right out and said he doesn't think you're qualified to be president. >> well, that will be up to the voters of new york and the other states that will be passing judgment in the weeks ahead. i think it's kind of a silly statement, but he's free to say whatever he chooses >> is he qualified to be president? >> here is what i believe.

i believe that voters will be looking at both of us, but i will take bernie sanders over donald trump or ted cruz anytime. >> about what he said? >> what's your thoughts? is she more qualified than he is qualified? >> she is the most qualified person running for president in the age in which i've been voting, more than i was in '92. >> do you think he's qualified? >> no. i think that i will abide by what hillary said today. we shouldn't be distracted by this. we need to talk about these people and their future. i say what hillary said. >> i should clarify it continued all day because people kept asking about it all day. >> spoken like a true husband, whatever hillary said. >> yeah. >> i think it's such a silly argument in that the whole -- >> maybe it's a silly question at this point but we keep asking it. >> when you keep banging the other candidate the implication is they aren't qualified.

the whole premise is that person isn't qualified. the simple pivot is not as qualified, but theoretically you're constantly saying that person is doing this, they're stupid about this, they're wrong about that, implication they are not qualified for this job. >> yeah, but the answer to the question to cut it off is he qualified to be question, yes, he is, but i'm more qualified. next question. >> it's interesting, though, that i thought that the democratic party had a decent chance at contrasting itself against the republican contest. it went away yesterday. >> well, i mean, there's still a pretty big contrast. >> but in terms that they hadn't begun -- >> comparing hand size. >> they hadn't begun tearing each other down in general election type attacks and i think that began yesterday. >> what bernie sanders said about hillary clinton up on the stage that she's not qualified and here are the five reasons is a clip that can be used in the general election over and over and over again. >> but they're still talking

about the issues. by the way, the voice of reason obviously is senator sanders' spouse, she weighed in last night saying her husband has now moved on. it almost seemed like she was saying move on, everybody. >> everyone. >> yes, everybody, including us, from using the term unqualified while the senator himself said he would continue to fight back when attacked. >> you made a comment about hillary clinton being unqualified for the office of president. is that something you regret saying? >> well, it was said after she and her campaign said that i was unqualified. >> i didn't hear her say you were unqualified. i heard her fail to say you were qualified, but she didn't say unqualified. >> well, look, the issue is, you know, after we won in wisconsin, and that was our sixth victory in seven caucuses and primaries, i think the clinton campaign has been getting a little bit nervous and i think they have been getting more negative and i hope very much that we can have an -- there are a whole lot of

problems that the middle class and working class of this country are facing, we should be talking about that. but if people attack me and distort my record we will respond. >> now, i think they should all go back to the issues and deal with that and bernie -- bernie has moved on. i mean, he has said, okay, let's -- let's not use the word unqualified, let's use the word contrast. why do i think i'm better than her. they would take the country in very different directions even though it seems like they're on the same page and that's what the secretary -- what the secretary's campaign keeps on something. they are on the same page. they're not on the same page. >> and earlier this morning bernie sanders joined us on set. here is part of our conversation. >> i think a lot of people turned heads a little bit with the daily news interview, the interview with the new york daily news, some answers they felt you came up short with especially on your main message so i'm going to reask those questions. i am literally taking the daily news interview and borrowing --

>> all right. by what authority and how would you go about breaking up the largest financial institutions in the country. >> are you ready for the answers? >> i'm ready. i want to hear it. >> we will do it in a couple of ways. one is you use section 121 of the dodd-frank legislation. number two, better and i would prefer it is base passed by legislation. what my legislation, the legislation that i've introduced says that the secretary of the treasury will have the authority to investigate and determine which banks pose systemic risk to our economy, i.e., if they are too big to fail they could bring down a significant part of the economy, and then within a period of time the secretary can break them up. >> so let me ask you that. by definition, gi'm going to upset a lot of my friends, but bank of america, jpmorgan, you can go down the list, citi, if any one of those banks went

under tomorrow, i don't care what anybody says, we would be baling them out again. >> yes. >> i don't care what the legislation says, you've been there. >> yep. >> i've been there. >> of course. >> they stick a gun to your head and say you either vote yes or the entire economy collapses. why are we still in that position eight years after 2008. >> this guy gave a better answer than i ask. >> why are we still in that position? >> by the way, joe, three out of the four largest banks in this country today are bigger than we were when we baled them out because they were too big to fail. that's point number one. point number two is that when you have six financial institutions that today have assets of about -- equivalent to 58% of the gdp of this country, they issue two-thirds of the credit cards and one-third of the mortgages don't you think that's a hell of a lot of economic and political power. >> nobody is going to let them go under. >> i don't disagree.

another new york daily news question what does a bank mike jpmorgan look like in year two of and is aers administration? >> after we break them up it's their decision what they want to do. this is how big you can be. that's all. i'm not going to run jpmorgan. >> is there a parallel between what the government did to the bells back in the '70s and '80s and what you do to the banks? >> i think so. just said you are too big. >> would you concede, senator sanders, that wall street banks do play an important role in the united states economy no matter what their size are in terms of employing people, managing people's pensions, public pensions. >> of course. >> how do you reconcile your position that they ought to be broken up with the important role they play in the economy. >> when they are that big if they issue the top six banks issue two-thirds of the credit cards and a third of the mortgages by definition they play an enormous role, but i think what we have got to say is are they playing the kind of role that we need for small and

medium sized businesses in terms of providing the affordable credit that those businesses need to expand and i think the answer is no. much of what wall street is about is figuring out how they can make more profits for themselves. in many ways they are an island unto themselves. they coming up with all these crazy tools that nobody really understands to make more money for themselves. i guess i'm pretty conservative and i believe in old fashioned boring banking, you make a deposit, you make a loan, the small or medium sized businesses the consumers that want to buy a home, want to buy a car. that's my definition of what banking should be about. >> do you think it's good to have wall street banks managing public pensions, for example? >> i think that's an important role for them to play. >> mike. >> on another issue, gun litigation. >> yeah. >> yesterday governor cuomo of new york with regard to your position says what he does is take a political stance on a moral issue. so the question is why -- what other industry in this country receives immunity from

litigation other than the gun industry? >> let me just say this. let's set the record straight. and i do get a little bit upset at this. the clinton campaign has been on this, you know, gun business from day one. i have a d minus voting record from the nra. okay. d minus. number two, i come from a state that has virtually no gun control. you know -- >> right. >> okay. number three, and this is important to understand, in 1988 before i was elected to congress i was in a race, three-way race. the gun lobby was against me in that race because i said in 1988 that we should not have assault weapons sold or distributed in this country. i lost by 3 percentage points, i was running as an independent, republican won, democratic came in third place. i lost that race because i said 1988 let's ban assault weapons in this country. so to keep attacking me i think is unfair. now, to answer your question, let me put it back to you, i am

a gun shop owner in a rural area, you come in, you go through the instant background check, i sell you the gun, you flip out or do something, you go out and shoot somebody. should i believe held responsible for having sold you a legal product? >> is that the point of the litigation? >> yeah. >> the point of the litigation it would seem to me is massive sales of guns in bulk. >> okay. if that's the case then of course my position is then that gun -- if you walk in and say bernie give me 10,000 rounds of ammunition or i want to buy 47 assault weapons, should i believe held responsible for selling you that, the answer is yes. >> i want to flip what the governor of new york said around a bit and look at it the other collection. he said that you were taking a political position. it seems to me in the democratic primary on guns the safe political decision would have been to change your position. >> right. >> and actually tell the daily news what the daily news wanted to hear. why didn't you do that? >> look, i didn't because i try

to be honest, but here is -- here is the issue, and i want to pick this up, if a gun manufacturer -- and there are instances of this -- are selling guns to gun shops and we know that those guns are ending up in the hands of criminals, do you know what, hold that manufacturer liable, but don't hold a gun shop owner who legally sells a product to somebody else liable because that person did something crazy. >> just to make sure, and we've been debating this since new town, you do support a ban on gun shows without background checks. >> of course i do. >> there is definitely -- >> let's go through this -- >> selling over the internet just for people who don't know all of your positions let's get them out on guns. you support stronger background checks, you support background checks at gun shows, over the internet, et cetera, et cetera. >> and the straw man provision so that if you walk in legally and buy a gun and sell it to criminals that should be against the wall.

i very strongly support what president obama is trying to do. i want to reiterate back in 1988 i lost an election because i did not think it was a wise thing to have assault weapons being sold throughout this country. >> so you would be the first jewish president and i'm looking here at -- i don't know if this is new. have you heard that he's going to the vatican? >> you have the story here, mika. >> tell me. >> tell the world. >> you're going to be going to the vatican to talk about how to create a moral economy that works for all people rather than the top 1%. how did this come about? >> it was an invitation from the vatican. >> you know, that's pretty good. >> that's kind of impressive. >> it is. >> it is. >> has the pope invited you? >> he has not invited me and he has invited senator sanders. i am kind of offended because i've been going to 8:00 children's mass now -- >> last time i checked you are a catholic, too. >> but you've been invited by the vatican to go over and speak. >> and i was very moved by the invitation which just was made

public today. i am a big, big fan of the pope. obviously there are areas where we disagree on, women's rights or gay rights, but he has played an unbelievable role -- an unbelievable role of injecting a moral consequence into the economy and here is what he is saying -- people by bernie sanders is radical. read what the pope is writing. what he is saying is not only that we have to pay attention to what he calls the dispossessed and again we don't talk about it enough, these are the children who have no jobs all over the world, youth unemployment is off the charts, the elderly people who are watching this program now who are trying to get by on $11,000 a year, we don't talk about that. do you know what else he's even doing, he's talking about the idolatry of money, the worship of money and greed that's out there. how our whole cull tree is based on i get more and more and i don't have to worry about veterans sleeping out on the street or elderly that can't afford their prescription drugs

and he's trying to inject a sense of morality into how we do commission and we need that desperately. >> that was part of our conversation with senator bernie sanders. let's go to the republicans. john kasich and ted cruz spent yesterday campaigning across new york state. kasich was meant in the bronx by a crush of cameras by the city press corps as he took a bite out of the deli sandwich. breaking news there. across the city ted cruz got a spirited weld come in brooklyn speaking to members of the jewish community there. he visited a model matza kitchen ahead of the passover kitchen rolling out dough with three year olds. he sampled the traditional poll day food and did his best to sing along with the group but he and governor kasich spend the day making the case they are the only ones who are viable general election candidates. >> it's just ridiculous. just stop. >> corner kasich contrasted cruz's new york values on the trail and his super pac went

even further on the air. >> we love new york values, are you kidding, it's a great place. i love new york. >> what does it mean? >> it means innovation, neighborhoods, great food, great people. it means everything. >> new yorkers aren't stupid, ted. after we were hit we rallied, rebuilt, but remembered. we tell it like it is and that's who we are. so when you smear new york values in iowa for votes, we remember that, too. now you come here and conveniently say you love new york. forget about it, ted. >> what do we do if we come to september or october and it is trump versus hillary? and i would say, look, the first thing we would do is weep. but there is something even more fundamental, we prevent that from happening. >> meanwhile some new yorkers

are less than thrilled to have senator cruz in their backyard, congressman peter king has never been shy, yesterday no exception. >> i want to say one thing about the new york primary, any new yorker who even thinks of voting for ted cruz ought to have their head examined. >> here we go. >> no, really. here is a guy who refused to sign on to the 9/11 healthcare act for the cops and firemen, he is a guy who talks about new york values we are tough and to have some guy with ted cruz with his cowboy boots walking around criticizing us. i hope he gets the cold shoulder and other things from every new yorker, send him back where he thinks he belongs. he was a phoney. that was all off the record, by the way. that was all off the record. >> i could tell. it's nice that you are not fired up about it, too. >> i just can't stand that guy. >> welcome to new york. >> he said i just can't stand that guy. that was on the joe piscapo radio show.

all these pieces coming together. >> am 970. >> also weighing in yesterday rudy guiliani. he told the new york post, i support trump. i'm going to wrote for trump, but a spokesperson later added guiliani had not made an official endorsement because he will not be doing any campaigning on trump's behalf but he does have his vote. >> who cares about endorsements, they don't mean anything. >> i saw a half a dozen republican consultants yesterday and they're working -- they're not working the presidential races but working on just about everything else, senate races, house races and this is the real debate. this is -- you know, with ted cruz i think he might have some ability to hold together the collision, he's conservative, appoint conservative judges, but they believe there is a 100% chance he would lose. the trump calculation is. >> lose with cruz. >> lose with cruz but keep some coalition to get but with trump

there is this wild card factor that there's 95% chance that we lose. that is the grim conversation going on about the state of the case. i think pete king and rudy reveal that in their choices. >> we have so many for politics to get to. >> it's fascinating. >> it's just crazy. >> fun, mike. >> half dozen republican consultants yesterday after noon. how did you manage to escape? >> we have secret meetings, we are all in witness protection. >> how is everyone feeling? >> there was no alcohol. but, no, i mean, people are still having to do their jobs, people are still having to run senate races, run house races, work for super -- you know, the sort of reviled republican establishment does march on trying to do their best work for their clients in this very difficult climate. the notion that this is dire is no lie. the choices that they face both of them almost certainly guaranteed failure. donald trump looks to get his organization organized, but is it too late in colorado? steve kornacki joins us. but first here is bill

karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> mika, before i get to this very annoying snow and cold forecast let's show you what happened in florida yesterday morning right about this time, newport ritchie area and clear water beach this was a water spout off the coast and then it moved on shore and did do some significant damage. head winds of 85 miles per hour, not in you have to harm too many of the houses themselves but a lot of tree damage in the area. when those trees fall they fell on cars and also a few homes. power should be going on to most of those people shortly. let's talk about the annoying stuff, snowing this morning in western new york, snowing in wisconsin, had a coating of snow in vermont and even snowshowers in pittsburgh. over the weekend a little batch of light snow comes in friday night into saturday. this is how much snow is going to fall, most of the roads will melt but the grassy surfaces, car tops, 2 to 5 inches, pittsburgh 2 inches, state college 4 inches. duluth right now a windchill of 3, marquette 5. this is late february type weather we're dealing with in

the great lakes today and this goes to the northeast this weekend. so as you see it we have had the problems with the snow and the cold. there's other areas of the country that are extremely warm. it's going to be 77 in billings, boise today has a chance of being just as warm as areas of florida so the northwest continues to be the unusually warm spot while everyone in the east is very cold. as far as the weekend foes the worst day of the weekend is saturday mid-atlantic and great lakes, rain and snow showers. then we will start talking about warm stuff. look at that, 87 in oklahoma city. we will warm up next week after this last shot of cold and yes annoying snow. new york city, you will probably see some snowflakes, no accumulations likely on saturday. when you think about success, what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders

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our political round table,

hallie jackson and steve kornacki join the round table, plus no less than the british prime minister finds himself on defense over the panama papers, can he weather the storm that has already cost mother premiere his job? sara eisen joins us with that coming up in business before the bell. trolling for a gig with braindrone? can't blame you. it's a drone you control with your brain, which controls your thumbs, which control this joystick. no, i'm actually over at the ge booth. we're creating the operating system for industry. it's called predix. it's gonna change the way the world works. ok, i'm telling my brain to tell the drone to get you a copy of my resume. umm, maybe keep your hands on the controller. look out!! ohhhhhhhhhh... you know what, i'm just gonna email it to you. yeah that's probably safer. ok, cool. my school could be bad.ing fast. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair?

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has senator sanders in your opinion said or done anything during the course of this campaign or during the course of his career in the senate that

disqualifies him from being president of the united states? >> i never said that about him. >> i know. i'm asking. >> i know. i never said that about him. his response to me was a misrepresentation of what i've said, but also kind of a historic amnesia because on all of those issues he supported president obama, he supported joe biden as our vice presidential candidate, he supported john kerry when he ran. >> how often have i talked about hillary clinton's e-mails? have you heard me? not a word. how often have you talked about the clinton foundation's fundraising? have you heard me say one word about it during the campaign. >> why haven't you? >> you make our job easier. >> some of them are legitimate questions. >> they are, but i have tried to stay away from personal attacks. so when i get attacked for being unqualified and when i respond by saying, well, you know, hillary clinton voted for the war in iraqi, she voted for all these disastrous trade

agreements, she's raising millions of dollars from wall street and other special interests, oh, my, isn't that a vitriolic attack. >> i love it. >> how many times have i said that you beat up your girlfriends every time you get too drunk? how many times have i said that there's talk -- >> we never bring it up. >> running a huge cocaine ring from columbia. >> we don't talk about it. >> the mirror above your bed. >> by the way, just for the record, unless i'm missing something and these guys are covering it 24/7. hillary clinton never said he was unqualified. those words never came out of her mouth. >> it all happened right here on "morning joe." >> joining us now along with donny which we won't talk about -- >> i just can't take it any longer. >> steve kornacki who is following the new fashion trend here at msnbc. joe started it nine years ago

when management try togd him to wear a suit and he showed up every day looking like this. now it apparently works for everybody. >> it's a thing, though, people do it and they call it the joe. >> they do call it the joe. >> if joe is the one who started it on behalf of everyone who likes it thank you for your courage. >> you mocked me nine years ago, i've got -- you mocked me nine years ago, i showed up without socks. >> yeah. >> okay. nobody else was doing that. >> the jews, we were doing it. if you go to miami, you see a lot of white loafers, no socks. >> by the way, is the only gentlemen at this table i apologize to proper america for these thugs showing up dressed inappropriately. >> i think you guys look great, it's comfortable and management needs to get over it. sometimes people look better in what they're comfortable in. hallie jackson who is covering the cruz campaign.

>> it's fun to be on set with you guys. >> i bet it is really fun to cover that. and the directors of the earth institute at columbia institute economist dr. jeffrey saks who is advising bernie sanders on foreign policy. >> how can he advise bernie sanders on foreign approximately si and ted cruz and donald trump at the same time. it is amazing. >> we have a lot to talk about. first of all, ted cruz. >> yes. >> showing he is one of the peeps yesterday. >> perform it as if you were ted cruz. >> i will be the matza. >> it was quite the scene. it was a mob scene, you had people crowding these stairs, they were chanting jews for cruz. >> no. no. no. no. >> stop right there. stop right there. >> roll the tape. >> no. come on. i actually brought you guys a present and forgot it upstairs, there were yarmulkes with cruz 2016 on them. >> come on. >> were there really?

>> stop. they really did that? >> correct. but here is what cruz is trying to do, he's aiming in brooklyn trying to build these coalitions with different groups, this was his outreach to the jewish campaign, he will be doing this for different minorities groups, faith groups throughout new york. >> i can't wait to see him with the dreadlocks. >> steve kornacki, what an uphill battle for ted cruz in new york state. >> wait. they're chanting. >> you wonder why he doesn't get on the road and go to pennsylvania, why he doesn't go to connecticut. >> just get -- >> he doesn't go to other states. >> i think it is with cruz it's not even trying to watch donald trump, i think the bigger threat to him in new york and the northeast is that he loses out to kasich for second. i think that becomes key is indiana when you get out of the northeast the next one is indiana and one of the keys for cruz in wisconsin was that kasich in the final days there collapsed and that kasich vote went to cruz, it's why it went

from a small cruz win to a big one. >> cruz is in third place in the latest poll in new york. >> he does not want kasich getting new life in indiana where he jumps to 20, 25% because that looks like it's taking support away from cruz. >> new york values, how much of a val length that? >> cruz has said that people, conservatives in different parts of the new york not manhattan, but they get what he means when he talks about new york values. there is a sense when you go and talk to people, we were at this rally yesterday and they get it, they understand what he means, he's talking about lib rat democratic values as he said, but we went six miles away to this diner and we were talking with people, people who weren't there supporting senator cruz, a couple union plumbers, here is what they had to say. >> when ted cruz says people know what i mean when i say new york values do you know what he means by that? >> he doesn't have a clue about new york values. i will be honest, i used to be a democrat and now i'm a republican just so i can vote for trump. so i changed my party affiliation three months ago just so i could do what i had to

do. >> he doesn't have to be paid by lobbyists to -- to run his campaign, he's doing it all on his own. whenever he opens his mouth he doesn't say it based on a script, he's saying whatever comes to his head, whatever comes to his head is what comes to my head, what i would say, you know. >> boy, i will tell you what. >> wow. >> home field advantage. talk about home field. >> yes. >> i talked to a lifelong democrat from queens yesterday, lifelong democrat, switching parties to vote for donald trump. now, maybe -- the only reason i'm saying that is this guy said they switched. he really is -- he is at home in queens and, you know on long island. >> trump. >> trump, yeah. >> it's home field advantage for him. the challenge for him, i spoke with a campaign aid who said we are going to get 1300 delegates and win the nomination outright. that is a lower number than what they had previously been saying, but the challenge for him is if it does go to a contested

convention how well prepared is he when it comes to delegates, the strategy on the ground, the organization to mull that together. >> we will talk about that in one second. let's go first to jeff jie saks. jeffrey, on the democratic side in new york obviously you have a pitched battle between hillary clinton and bernie sanders. it seems to me speaking of new york values at least on the democratic side economically bernie sanders wins that one by a long shot unless you, you know, are a really rich .0001% on the upper east side like donny deutsch. >> i knew that was coming. i could have finished that sentence. >> we're going to find that's the case when the primary comes, i think he's going to win this one and her supposed home state advantage isn't going to mean too much by the time the primary comes around. >> what do you think about paul krug man continuing to take potshots at bernie sanders? why would a guy who claims to be a progressive economist take so

many potshots at bernie? >> unbelievable. no content, either. today's column is pure rant, there is not a word of substance in it. it's really weird. i don't know what's going on at the whole "new york times" basically, you know, they said don't -- don't think, don't change, nothing can change so you have to go with the status quo and i think it's turning off a lot of readers, actually. >> all right. steve kornacki, ted cruz added three more votes in colorado last night with his slate winning all the delegate openings at a district convention boosting his state total to nine. cruz will be the only republican candidate to address them in person. attending this weekend's state convention in colorado springs where he is expected to pick up most of its 37 delegates, the colorado gop's executive committee decided last summer not to have a caucus or a primary, one trump adviser told nbc news, our expectations are low. in we get a delegate number higher than zero it will be a success for us. it's just not a good state for us. >> that's kind of setting the

barlow, isn't it. >> yeah. what you're seeing this is part of the story the margin trump had. hallie said they're dialing back their expectations, the margin for error is disappearing. if you look at the map of states that are left i still think he can get to 1,237 and i think we might be having a different conversation two, three weeks from now because if you look new york, delaware, pennsylvania, maryland, connecticut, rhode island, those are the states this month. if trump gets what he's supposed to get this month we're going to be sitting here on may 1st seeing donald trump 400, 450 delegates ahead of ted cruz, near 1,000, he would still have a winner take all in new jersey left, still have the pacific coast. >> how many delegates are in new jersey? >> 51 in new jersey. if you add that to the northeast trump is over 1,000. i think the biggest thing the wild card on this calendar the rest of the way is the state of indiana, it goes on may 3rd. if trump wins it by a couple points he will get 45, 48 of the delegates, if he loses by a couple points he would get 6 or

9. that's the biggest single swing left on the calendar. >> so indiana and then california. >> indiana and california. >> circle those two. >> trump in new york, by the way, all kidding aside, the jews for cruz, new yorkers see that stuff and it turns them off. i think trump -- he's going to go through the roof in new york. i really do. i think they have him at 52 and 54, i think he's going to go much higher. >> paul ryan continues to insist that's not in the race for the white house but as he continues his first overseas trip as house speaker his office is out with a short campaign-style web video. it's entitled politics these days, and uses part of his recent speech to congressional interns two weeks ago. >> what really bothers me the most in politics these days is this notion of identity politics. that we're going to win an election by dividing people. rather than inspiring people on our common humanity and our common ideals and common culture on the things that should unify us.

we all want to be prosperous, we all want to be healthy, we want everybody to succeed, we want people to reach their potential in their lives, liberals and conservatives will disagree with one another on that. no problem. that's what this is all about. so let's have a battle of ideas, let's have a contest of whose ideas are better and why our ideas are better. >> speaking of paul rhine, let me ask you guys a question, it's clear what's going to happen. >> what's going to happen. >> there's no way they're giving the nomination to cruz. let's say trump comes up a bit short, he will stand up and say you don't give it to plea i'm running third party, we give it to hillary. what does the party do? >> this guy is too bright, has too bright of a future to say i'm going to go in and get killed. there's no ending to this thing. >> well, if the northeast -- i'm with you, steve, the northeast continues to go the way it's going to go that despite what everybody said after wisconsin -- >> you think still? >> i think he's going to get close enough. i really do.

>> he is not conceding california, he thinks he's going to pick up two-thirds, we're going to get two-thirds of the delegates. >> he's probably, steve, going to tear through the northeast. >> if he does that, if he doesn't get indiana but does well in california, let's say he ends at 1210, 1215 you still have that pool of unbound delegates, huge wind cards, but there's indication pennsylvania, 54 unbound delegates, indication that is a lot of them will honor the statewide vote, at least that's what they're saying right now, if trump wins pennsylvania there could be a lot of pressure in pennsylvania to go with the statewide winner if. he's 20, 25 short of 1,237 i still think there's path there for him to get it. >> jeffrey saks, let's talk about the democrats for a second. it seems to me that the process is so rigged with super delegates that even before the season starts you have people saying that insurgent candidate can't win. if we republicans had super

delegates jeb bush would still be in this race because he would have been 500 delegates ahead and could have lost the first five or six states. the democrats need to take a second look at the super delegate process that sort of rigs the process before it even begins. >> i think the super delegates are going to take a second look because if bernie sanders wins as i think he's going to in new york, if he wins big in the states going forward and he's on a great streak and i think it's going to continue, i think the super delegates are going to look and see that he's the candidate that the voters want and he's the candidate that is most likely to win in november. and i think it's going to shift a lot of these super delegates that are now in hillary's column. >> donny, you are a hillary fan. she's lost six out of seven races. what if she loses her home state and that goes seven out of eight. >> she loses her home state she's got big problems. >> does she? >> this is her waterloo. hallie jackson, steve

kornacki, dr. jeffrey saks. >> thank you, guys. >> donny, thank you. still ahead -- >> donny, can i see your name on the inside of your suit? >> i don't want to see the inside of his suit, god knows what's in there. >> look at that, donny deutsch. >> next week on "morning joe" i will be modeling the first "morning joe" blazer with annum blem. >> can i ask you as you try to button that thing, how many times has that button popped on you? it looks like a lot of strain there. ♪ ♪ only those who dare drive the world forward. introducing the first-ever cadillac ct6. it's my decision to make beauty last. fix.

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sold them just before becoming prime minister in 2010. the revelations came in an interview that cameron did with itv in which he says there was no wrongdoing on his part or on behalf of his father. have a listen. >> it wasn't a family trust, it wasn't for the benefit of one particular family. anyone could have bought units in it. and if you were a u.k. citizen and bought units in it then you paid income tax on the dividends and you paid capital gains tax when you sold the shares. so you were subject to full u.k. taxation. that's what it was. there are many other unit trusts like it and i think it's being unfairly described and my father's name is being unfairly britain about. >> of course, the details of his father's fund were released in the 11.5 million page documents known as the panama papers earlier this week. a lot of fallout, it implicated a number of leaders around the globe. this is just the beginning.

it exposed a web of offshore accounting and clearly it's putting cameron and others in uncomfortable positions already, guys, the opposition party is jumping all over him for this. he has been an advocate of paying your fair share, tax fairness, we will see how he can tweak the message now that this admission has come out. >> cnbc's sara eisen. thank you. coming up next, the doctors are in. >> house calls. >> it's a house call. ♪ the all-new audi a4, with available virtual cockpit. ♪ whewhat does it look like?ss, is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world?

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>> with us now dr. zeke emanuel and leading spine surgeon author and the establisher of the online health newsletter thrive dr. dave campbell. i want to talk about something, we don't even have it playing, you guys started talking about this. >> quick. tied for time. >> the future of primary care is in your home. >> right. >> tell me about it. >> we're going to get -- we're going to get out of the physician office and physicians are going to increasingly come to a patient's home. >> going back to the house calls. >> health advisors. because it's much more efficient, you can see the patient, interact with them and it's going to be, i think, also less expensive. >> dr. dave, you say you're doing it now, it's a reverse house call, i will be home at 7:00, come to my house. >> it's better for the patient if they don't have to go to the hospital or office, we call that

the reverse house call. >> what role will things play in healthcare going forward. >> >> you have dermatology, people take a picture, also people interacting over skype to the doctor and in about 75% of those cases you don't need to go to the emergency room, you don't need to go to the doctor's office. so i think it's going to be a huge boone. we need to sort out who pays for t what the liability is. >> so what's the possibility -- and i've been thinking -- wondering about this for years. what's the possibility that a single mom that have to use emergency rooms as primary care at 11:30 at night can actually go to a walgreens or a cvs, sit in front of a screen, talk to doctors sh -- >> that's here. >> that's already here. >> have you been to a walmart in lancaster county, pennsylvania? >> some walmarts have clinics in them, they may be manned by nurse practitioners or tv cameras but they're manned. >> zika virus, the latest, quick. >> the latest is summer is

coming, i live in florida and there are now hundreds and hundreds of cases predicted for the u.s. i think by the summer we will have over 1,000 in the united states. we have as many in puerto rico. it's coming, get ready for the summer. >>en a epidemic? >> well, dr. frieden says no, but it's the impact of the cases that's important. birth defects, horribly impactful. >> we should also be clear, so far we have had less than 350 cases in the united states none of them derived from a mosquito here. we have very good vector control, mosquito control in the united states. >> it's weather. >> it's weather and we also need to be clear, even in latin america there are places without zika, argentina, uruguay, chile, it's knots everywhere. we have to put it in perspective. this is going to be important and the sequelae, the microcephali is a serious problem but this is not a huge disaster. >> we also have you in here to

talk about break throughs in jar i can't tell tick care because joe has a birthday tomorrow and we also want to know about the impact of eating cake like this because i hear it's very healthy. i have no fork, though. so i will just have to use my hands. >> dark chocolate. >> that's great for the mental health. >> happy birthday, joe. not bad, right? >> somebody obviously had trouble with numbers. >> okay. no fork. >> somebody with dyslexia put the numbers in. >> exactly. dyslexia. so the competency in hillary clinton has come under question lately. talk about her competency on healthcare. >> so i was -- i worked with her in the early 1990s when she did healthcare pre form for the clinton administration and i've talked to her subsequently. there are very few people who come to understand the american healthcare system as quickly and as deeply as she has. it's a hugely complicated system and she really has the ability to master it given that it's 18% of the gdp it's a major -- a

major political issue. she really understands it and she certainly is competent. >> barnicle, quick. >> one word answer, birthday present for joe is obamacare working? >> it absolutely is working. it hasn't caused any problems. >>? six years it's been much more successful than most people thought. that will give him an ulcer and he will have to use the healthcare system. >> happy birthday. >> thank you very much. >> it's "morning joe." that does it for us this morning. steve kornacki -- >> the fashion trend continues. >> after a short break. >> after a break. hey, need fast heartburn relief? try cool mint zantac. it releases a cooling sensation in your mouth and throat. zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. try cool mint zantac. no pill relieves heartburn faster.

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here, there, everywhere. united states postal service priority: you and a good friday morning to you. i'm steve kornacki here in new york. topping our agenda this hour, the battle between hillary clinton and bernie sanders raging on, dueling interviews this morning on the "today" show and "morning joe." >> his response to me was a misrepresentation of what i've said. >> to say that i am running a vitriolic campaign -- >> why haven't you? >> and the backdrop for all of this democrats now worrying that their party's primary battle is taking a dangerous and divisive turn, one that could threaten their ability to unite and beat