>> headed to brooklyn. we'll see you tomorrow. until then, we say to you, sayonara. donald trump's biggest rival is ted cruz. >> only one campaign has beaten donald trump over and over again. >> but john kasich may be trump's biggest problem. >> nobody is going to have enough delegates to go to the convention and win on the first ballot. >> kasich shouldn't be allowed to continue. the ar the rnc shouldn't allow it. >> donald trump has created a toxic environment. >> could it give kasich momentum. >> these people think i'm going to drop out. are they nuts? >> can be more than a spoiler at the convention. >> great leaders don't divide people. they respect the difference that exist in one another. >> this is an msnbc exclusive

town hall with governor john kasich, from the jericho, new york. here now is chris matthews. good evening, and welcome to an msnbc exclusive town hall. please welcome tonight for the full hour, ohio governor and republican presidential candidate, john kasich. >> thank you. >> thank you, governor. two days ago in new york, with the republican women's club, you talked about fear and anger out there and how certain candidates, you have been exploiting it for their own fame to gain attention. what were you talking about? who were you talking about? >> i was talking about trump and cruz primarily. well, i mean that's what i was

talking about. >> you weren't saying that then, but now you're saying it. >> here, look, here is some of the menu they've offered. surveillance over neighborhoods. ban on a religious test. nuclear weapons in europe and we're going to, you know, get rid of nato, let russia kind of run europe, where i mean, and here is the problem. chris, what bothers me, do we have problems? yeah. of course we do. people worried about their jobs, worried they don't have good wages. they don't get interest in the bank. their kid went to school and still living with them. can't find a job. i mean, seriously, can't find a job. and now are those a serious problem as the depression? is the second world war, the attacks 9/11, i don't think so. they're serious. but you can either get people

and drive them into a ditch and feed on their anxiety, gnashing of teeth, you know, this person did this to me, or you can walk into a room and you can acknowledge the problems, and you can try to give people an answer. have a little hope. tell them they can be solved. they can be fixed. they're not even that difficult to fix. it's just people have to remember, they're americans before republicans and democrats, and we have to fix the country. that's all. >> so the fear is real. the anger is real. why are they all voting 15 million people, if you count up all the votes in the primaries, cruz and trump. why are they getting the votes? >> look, i grew up in a blue collar neighborhood as you know. i understand these fears. frankly, people think if a politician's lips are moving, they're lying. and so it's been incumbent on

me, people say why does he keep talking about his record. i talk about my record, because i think if you can show you did it a couple of times, you actually fixed things, then you have credibility for doing it the third time. and but i think people have just kind of had it. here is another thing they say. i hate political correctness. i get that. but we don't want to like get rude. you know, that's not where the country should head. and i tell you, they've got all the publicity too. trump, are you kidding me? he was up there all the time. he just caught a wave. i think it was the first debate. i said don't dismiss what this guy says. it's serious. but, but, i think now that people are beginning to hear a little bit of a message that we have, we continued to do better. and they still, here is the way it looks like now on the three man race, coke, pepsi and kasich, okay. >> what's selling? >> well, you're not supposed to

clap for that. you're supposed to cry when i say that. the other part of it is now like coke, pepsi, kasich, and you're shopping with your spouse, and you're looking at what you're going to buy, and people are beginning to realize, there is this uncola called kasich, but they still don't know enough about me. and so i've been playing from behind the whole time. it's amazing, i'm still standing. there were 17 of us and we're down to three. >> let's talk about we're not going to get rid of fear or anger. it's justified. how does john kasich, the third brand, deal with -- let's talk about a couple of things. is illegal immigration, mainly from latin america, is that a real problem or not? >> i think it is. >> what are you going to do about it? >> we need to make sure in '86, reagan had a plan. >> i know. it was never enforced. >> it wasn't enforced. we've got to ep force it.

we've got to say you can't walk into the country willy-nilly. we lock our doors at night. they shouldn't be able to walk into our country. it is an issue -- it is an issue of law. it is also becoming more a national security issue. let's control the border. then we can have a guest worker program, people come in, work and go back. and for the 11.5 million here, we're not going to yank them out of their homan e and deporting them. >> we're probably not going to deport 12 million people. there is probably a fellow down there, he hears about a job, i got a job up here in chicago. you get up here, you get a job. it's below the counter, off the books. as long as people hire people illegally in this country, people will come here i will he will illegally. you get here. >> that's right.

>> what are we going to do about the businessman? are we going to put him in jail? >> hold him accountable. >> how do we do that? >> i tell you what you do, you fine them. >> you think that is going to stop them? >> let me tell you something, small businesses, construction industry, service industry, there is not big margins. they work on small margins. and we just have to have a system that says -- >> do you like e verify. >> from what i know about it. >> let me tell you this. we pay our taxes, i already paid my last week, okay. we're going to pay our taxes. why do people pay their taxes. they have a sense if they don't, they might get caught. >> they're honest. >> i'm saying we're driving at, what would keep people -- why would you have compliance. there is a sense i don't want the irs coming after me. people feel they have to pay their taxes. most employs don't want to hire illegals. you put a consequence.

>> they don't want to hire illegals. >> most don't. come on. >> they don't? why do they do it? >> msnbc, do you hire illegals? >> no, i'm asking you. >> i'm asking. >> is that a charge? is that i a charge? >> yeah, it's a charge. >> what is your basis for making that charge. >> i talked to people, they told me that's what's going on. >> let's get back to serious. most employers wouldn't want to do that. some do. compliance, where they know there is a -- >> why did your party not pass the reform bill, which had e-verify in it, a whole good stuff, senators backed it and the house speaker wouldn't bring it up? boehner wouldn't even bring it to a vote. >> can i answer? because i'm not president. because i'm not president. if i were president, they would bring it up. >> if you were speaker would you

have brought it up. >> would you bring up votes if most people wanted to vote for it? >> i would say look, i'm not speaker, but i was budget chairman. >> no, i want to know why we can't get stuff done. >> you know why? because everybody is polarized. >> including your party. >> so the president does these executive orders, bypasses congress, bad idea. >> maybe because he can't get a vote in congress. >> can i finish this train of thought? >> blame the other party. when in fact, your party won't bring the matters to a vote. >> you didn't let me finish. >> i think you did, but go ahead. >> here is what i was saying. the president did these things, but then we had a republican, who went to the state of the union, and when the president of the united states was talking, he shouted, you lie, okay. >> i know. >> it's on both houses. you know, first of all, i said we're americans before republicans and democrats. you know one of my 16-year-old

daughter said the other night. we live in the united states of america, not in the divided states of america. the fact is, it's leadership, chris. it's leadership. >> let's get the sequence right. i'm not here to defend obama on this. but he did it after the republican speaker wouldn't bring up a comprehensive immigration bill. so we get this thing behind us. >> chris, look, i've got to tell you. for a long time now, they have not been able to communicate. >> i agree with that what happened? why did it stop? >> i'm going to tell you a good story that has never been told before. i got a called from boehner. he said i want you come play golf with the president and vice president. biden has been out there for two hours practicing, and he is all lathered up and everything. boehner takes obama, i take biden. after the first hole, i never saw joe. he is in the woods the whole time. >> see what you're doing here? >> i love biden, okay. he is a good guy. i don't agree with him, but i

like him. say this about him, that guy has been through some hell with the loss of his son. >> i know. >> with the accident where he lost his wife. and i think a child, i mean, and he has been a great public servant. i don't agree with him, but i like him. so we get done playing, and we're supposedly having a soft drink, but we were drinking beer. let's be clear about it. i looked at john boehner, i said boehner, can you believe it? you're the speaker of the house. your dad owned a bar. you had like, i don't know how many brothers and sister, and you're the speaker. give me a break. i said joe, you, vice president, are you kidding me? then i looked at -- i said, and me, you know, i'm the governor of ohio. me? the governor? you, you, mr. president, you. come on. i said clearly, the lord wanted us to be here. so we better do something while we're here. and the president looked at boehner and he said you come down to the white house and we'll start talking about the

budget. right after that, they started talking. now, the thing fell apart. i don't know why it fell apart. but there was a moment there where there was a connection. and you know what, chris? you know this from the experience you had where there is a will, there is a way. we have to get people to rise their performance to a level where they want to help america. they want to fix social security, create economic growth. that's what you do. >> you've been very clear in the last two days, especially with the republican women's group about their two paths to the party they could take, one is the dark path and one is your path. it reminded me of robert frost, we all learned that in school. but the problem is, you're taking the road less traveled by. you're taking a road of openness and negotiation, and most of the voters out there in your party, 15 million i said, 3 million voted for you so far, how do you come out ahead at the convention? how do you get out and become

the nominee between now and july? >> i'm studying how lincoln got there. he was fourth and he got picked, but. >> i know. i knew lincoln. >> gotcha. i almost sold that on ted, but i stopped. i knew reagan. but chris, look. we keep talking about the primary. now, you win a primary, you lose a general, what's the point? do you hang a certificate on your wall? i'm the only one that consistently beats hillary. yesterday, did you see the little thing they did, 40,000 people they surveyed and did the electorate college. hillary beat cruz and trump and i beat her. you know the reason. look, the reason is, you know, look, the reason, i can appeal to the blue collar workers, and i can appeal to the independents or my team can. and we have a proven record of success of solving problems.

i don't want to operate in the negative. >> look, you go into claef laev it's in your state. without ohio, it won't happen. you're obviously the road to that. but you get to the convention, suppose trump doesn't get 1,100, he is nowhere near, he doesn't get the gimme. >> he is not going to. >> okay, that's the first step for you getting the nomination. you get there, and trump makes speeches, which he has already begun to make. it has been fixed or i'm walking. third party, we don't know what he'll do. he'll blow his stack. i'll say it to you now. democracy. he got the most votes. shun shouldn't he be the nominee. >> great point. >> how do you fight democracy. >> only one problem with that. we know that to get an a, you immedia need to make a 90.

someone makes an 83, i should get an a. you didn't get to 90. >> why do you apply that rule when in every sport we fight in the country, the team who gets the most point wins. the baseball team wins. >> once you finish the 4 quarter, we're not done yet. >> how do you explain -- >> because -- because -- >> every election has been held in this country, they don't say you didn't get 33 million. all you have to get is one more vote than the other guy. >> you heard of this thing called the electoral college. >> yes. >> i can throw that argument right back oon you. >> you think you can beat the word democracy. >> that's al gore's argument. bush won. >> i think the democrats are more docile than the people for trump. we lost, we're going home. i don't think they're going to be like that. >> look, let me tell you something. there are people who are trump

who are really not for trump, you know that, here in new york, you know. >> i don't know that. >> yeah, you do. >> what? what is this big conversion? you get to cleveland, all the delegates got there because of trump or cruz, they're going to say something has come over here, kasich. kasich. i'm going to vote for kasich. how is that going to happen? >> i'm going to tell you how it's going to happen. first of all, the trump voters are comfortable with me and the more they know me, the more they like me. i grew up more like them than trump did. >> that's an argument. >> no. >> you haven't convinced them. >> they don't know me yet, chris. >> when are they going to know you? it's april we're getting close. >> remember, the coke, pepsi, kasich. people are getting to say, lady came up to me in new york last saturday, i need to take a picture with you. i said why is that. she said well, i was for kasich before it was cool to be for kasich.

and that's starting to turn. now, let me tell you what happens up there. when people become delegates, they assume there is a gravity that sets in. they realize they're picking someone who can be president and somebody who has to win. >> yeah. >> and i think at the end of the day, when they're there, they take on a different role, and who are the delegates going to be? a lot of them who work the in the party vineyards for 40 years. and so i think it's very possible. now, it would be up to me -- >> to overrule the voters. >> we're not overruling anybody. you've got to get the magic number. what are you kidding me. >> i made my point. you answered the question. >> you didn't make a very good point. i made a better point. >> you know i'm ready to do this. i'm letting you do this. let's go to the first question. let's go from the audience, the people here. >> hi, my name is steve young, welcome to jericho.

i am a local resident. chris matthews has trump, i don't want too say trump, but he has trump, by what i was going to ask, because you're talking a lot about the number of votes. >> process. >> and all of that, and you know, i hate to say it, but a lot of us coke drinkers are not going to switch to the uncola, and that's why coke is so popular. don't you feel at some point that you have responsibility to voters to be -- to recognize the fact that they're not voting for you? i know you keep saying and i'm listening to you say people jumping on your bandwagon. what if they don't? are you going to be comfortable going into a convention, it looks like it will be chaotic, a problem. >> who told you that? the media. they haven't been right about one thing they've said since the election got going. but any way, look, let me answer the question. >> i'm watching primary results.

i will tell you, i was very interested in your campaign from day one, you're not new to this. and it just hasn't resonated. and at some point, i mean, who told you, you know, that all that popular now, when the vote, we're looking at the new york polls and your voters really not is where it needs to be at some point, are you going to recognize that, because i do think that there is some responsibility to democracy. >> let me tell you what the responsibility is. it is to run for an office and give people solutions and lift them. the responsibility is not to talk about dividing people, gnashing teeth, turning them against one another. i will not participate in that, okay, sir. now, now, now, let me tell you this. if i don't win, i'll be a gentleman. i'm not going to say to my people are going to walk out. i'm not going to say any of the things that i've heard said,

either by him or by other people. you see, are it's important that people hear the message that they matter. that they have a god given purpose. they need to solve problems in their neighborhoods. come to the town halless as and what happens there. a message of negativity, i want to give them a message of hope. you know what? we're in new york. there was this guy, he once said one time, it ain't over until it's over. his name happened to be yogi berra, but thank you. >> thank you. i think you made your point. >> i just want to tell you, i really appreciate the way you're approaching this. however, we also need to look at the vote. so thank you. >> god bless you. i appreciate you. see you in cleveland. >> how did you like that? much more ahead, including questions from the audience here at the town meeting, town hall

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we're back here from jericho, new york, long island, with governor john kasich. he has a lot of fans here. i want to ask a question. i have to do a couple of these things. first of all, i'm trying to think about your party. the dark path and you've got the right path. two years ago, your party had that autopsy. it seemed pretty grim, but how do we bring in people who aren't republicans, hispanic, gay people, and african-americans, and how is that going? gay people, how is that going, honestly? is that working? >> well, it's working in ohio. >> yeah, but this nation, the debate, it isn't working. >> that's why i'm running.

i have a right to define what it means to be a conservative and a republican. my reelection, i received 60% of women, 51% of union households, and -- >> despite the opposition of the democrats. >> the thing is, when you bring people together and you can lift them, i was in baltimore yesterday, i'm very worried about baltimore from the standpoint of the riots. we were talking about it. some guy says you know how you solve these problems, create jobs. >> i agree. >> that's exactly right. we've tried to do that in the state and everybody gets lifted. i've got one other thing to tell you. for 30 years, i worked on balancing the budget. i always had problems explaining to people why it mattered. now i can tell you. i figured it out. we have a $19 trillion debt. when the debt goes up, the job opportunities go down. when it goes down -- >> explain the connection. how does it work. >> you make job creators very

nervous. they don't invest and don't create jobs. it's particularly through small business. it is debt, also higher taxes. look at connecticut. and also regulations. three things you need to create jobs. that's what i did in the state and in washington and that's what i'll do again. when create jobs, the mentally ill, they shouldn't be living under a bridge or in prison. the drug addicted, you can have the resources to get them on their feet. that's a republican party that i believe in. one about opportunity, but chris, as my mother used to say about the poor, it's a sin not to help somebody who needs help, but equally a sin to continue to help somebody who needs to learn how to help themselves. that's a good philosophy. >> most, i mean, men maybe more interested in politics to talk about it. men love talking politics. women more so every year. but more women voters than they

are men. 75% of women voters say they do not trust or like donald trump. >> right. that's pretty unbeliefable. >> what do you do to -- >> you have to work to get that unpopular. >> he has. >> he has, yeah. >> these fights with carly fiori fiorina, megyn kelly. >> why would i not be in the race. he has a 75% negative with married women. are you kidding me? think of the menu he would present. you can't -- nobody will order anything off the menu mu. we're not going to just lose the white house, the courthouse, the state house, i mean that's why is he not going to win. >> but a lot of women may be fiscally conservative like you, may be worried about taxes like you, and they're conservative, except on the social issues. they are pro-choice in many cases, because in the end -- >> that's divided, okay. >> it's divided but a lot of women in this state are

pro-choice. women are straight, i'm married to my husband, i'm happy, but the fact that two guys or two women doesn't affect me any, what is your view on the subject? >> i support traditional marriage. >> that does that mean? >> between a man and a woman. >> i know that, but -- >> let me finish. >> exclusively to them. >> no, i said the court has ruled and we're not going pass any laws now. it's in place. see, there is an issue here, though, that i keep wading into, people ask me. look, chris, we have -- there is a conflict to some degree between people practicing their deeply held religious beliefs, which they have a right to do, and the acts of discrimination against someone doing something inappropriate. that has to be balanced. what i'm trying to argue is take a breath. let's try to understand one another a little better and be more tolerant, because once you write a law, then you keep rewriting the law. >> do you tolerate same sex marriage. >> yeah.

>> you tolerate it in. >> i went to one. >> i know you did. >> yeah, i don't think it's right. and the wedding that i went to, they know i don't agree with them. >> what should gay people do if they love each other. >> what should they do. >> they should love one another. >> but not get married? >> i've given you the answer. i believe in traditional marriage. i've accepted the court ruling. so wait, here is the thing. there could be an effort to pass a constitutional amendment. i'm not for doing it. i'm for moving on. you know what, i'm also a believer that if i don't like what somebody is doing, i have a couple of things i can do. i can tolerate it. i can say something. or i have another thing i can do. i can pray for a person. that's another thing i can do. you're not driving me into some ditch here, chris. >> no, i'm not trying to. >> you're not going to, okay. >> ditch is usually selected by the candidates. >> yes. >> because i think it was interesting that you would go to

a gay -- this isn't my special field of interest, but the fact that you would go to a gay wedding and help celebrate and say i believe in traditional marriage, i still don't get your exact position. would you like to change the law? >> look, i'm exactly where it is now, i'm fine with it. i just don't want anybody kind of on either end trying to drive controversy, because it has to -- >> i know. >> it has to do with respecting people's deeply held religious believes versus, you know, something that could be discriminatory. it has to be -- >> you're taking it -- it sounds very different to a person what you're saying than what ted cruz says. >> but i'm running. i am a candidate of hope, okay. >> i'm trying to bring out the differences in what the candidates stand for. cruz is, you know, evangelical, he runs on this kind of thing. you don't. >> no. >> all right, let's go to a question. >> governor thank you, and welcome to beautiful long island. >> strong island some of us call it. >> yes.

yes. that is true. >> i've eaten my way across the entire state of new york. and i've had the best time. you know, they talk about new york values, i bring my -- i have twin daughters. >> i know. >> and a wife and my wife and i come here, and i take my -- one of them, each to new york. you know what? there is not a greater place in the world than new york. that's not -- that's not pandering. i really love it. i think it's -- i mean, look, you are a live. >> would you want to live here? >> i've been in and out of here for ten years. first of all, i love where i live. i love ohio. the thing that would be a challenge for me, traffic and things like that. but that's why i don't want to live here, but i love coming here okay. so but i would invite you to come to ohio. it's great. i'm telling you. >> governor, the question? >> let me introduce myself.

my name is dr. cynthia paul louse. i've searched the country for ten years. thank you. i had a scholarship through medical school and i work with the native americans in oklahoma. afterwar afterwards, i segued down through texas. for almost 20 years, i work the border towns in texas. i work all those towns that we refer to as the knife and gun club. you talk about building bridges. i literally got to see what that wall was like, which is like swiss cheese or doesn't exist. the question is, have you done your homework? i'm going to go into the voting booth next week. you're the only person that has gone down to see the border was donald trump. he gets it. he talked to the border patrol. >> what policy would you push? >> i feel the borders need to be secured. i do. >> yeah. >> there is a reason.

i'll tell you why. no, i'll tell you why. because the crime is rampant. i mean, it's one thing, you're talking the talk. and i do like you, but i'm concerned that why you have not gone down to the border, talked to the people and see what they've experienced. >> i talked to people who have experienced it. i haven't looked at the wall. >> why not? >> there are so many hours in the day. would it be great to go there, i would like to go all over the country, but there is only so much time. i didn't know that you didn't know that i absolutely believe we have to secure the border. i know we have to secure the border. we were just talking here about what, in '86, reagan and the republicans and democrats passed a plan on immigration, but we just talked about it. we didn't enforce it. we need to enforce it. we have to protect our border. i'll tell you. it's not just because of that. i worry about isis or people who are part of that coming into our

country. so it's a given, you know, it's a given, we do that, but we shouldn't just do it and wait to do it all at one time. and the other thing is, if somebody comes across that border, we've got to send them back now. no more coming in. you've got to do it legally, okay. so -- >> thank you, thank you very much for that description. stay with us. much more of our town hall with governor john kasich still ahead. we'll be right back. understands the life behind it. those who have served our nation. have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life.

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we're back with governor john kasich. let's go to the next question, sir. >> i want to -- my name is nathan jackson. i am a publicist. i want to thank you, governor, for coming to the long island landmarks. a quick question. what are your plans for national health care? i know you were talking about repealing obama care, but most of the country wants it. >> well, look, the problem with obama care is three things. the first problem is that health care costs continue to rise. they haven't dealt with that problem. secondly, insurance costs have sigh rocketed, and thirdly, small businesses don't want to expand because they don't want to get caught in it. first of all, i would take the federal resources, combine it with medicaid, send it back to the states, and let the states

covering the working poor so millions of americans don't lose health insurance. that's first step. the longer step would be, we are driving in our state, which can be taken nationally towards total transparency. we want to know the cost of a hospital, we want to know the quality of a physician. we want to know the cost of a physician. and we are creating a system working with the insurance industry, and with the hospital systems and with the physicians to reward people who provide high quality, below the average. if you are providing high quality and your costs are low, we'll give you a financial reward. this will work in driving down, putting downward pressure on health care costs because we keep going the way we're going, look at the deductibles, we might as well have catastrophic policies now. we're actually doing this in our state. not just the government, but also the private sector and we want to take this nationally. so we believe -- >> you would repeal obama care.

>> yeah. >> first, before you get something else. >> i would switch it out. >> next question. >> hello, my name is joseph deangelo, i am an educator. my question involves an incident yesterday where a war ship in the baltic, american war ship was buzzed by two russian fighters, and a helicopter. this is part, i'm assuming an attempt to incite an incident. this is part of a continuing problem that's occurred in china, and also for instance, the events in iran, the taking of one of our patrol boats. i was curious, what you might do about such an international affair? >> well, look, i mean, i served on the armed services committee for 18 years, and i saw everything from the build-up of our military to the collapse of the berlin wall to pushing sadam out of kuwait.

the one thing you have to do is you have to be strong, sir. you can't say one thing and do another. and you also have to stay cool. we don't need to have an international incident or a war, but we need to make it clear to people, we're not going to tolerate this behavior. for example, i would tell putin, we are going to arm the ukrainians, and if you try to -- if you think you can invade nato and not attack us, you're wrong. with the chinese, you don't own the south china sea and the fact is, if you cyber attack us, we're not only going to defend ourselves, but take your systems out. saying what you mean and meaning what you say, but we don't want to get all worked up with something that we might go down a path we may not get back. we have to destroy isis. the same coalition we used in the first gulf war, we to get

them with the muslim nations and ourselves, in the air, on the ground, when we beat it, beat tem them, let them redraw the map. they'll redraw the map of the middle east. the civilized war has to beat the barbarians. we've got to bring the whole civilized world together, not only on military, but intelligence and policing, so that we can only be aware of where these people are so we can destroy them before they destroy any of the people that we love. okay? >> can i -- i want to follow-up on hawkish, where up on that spectrum. hillary clinton is much more hawkish is than bernie is. >> she screwed up libya.

>> you talk about having a significant component of ground troops and going after isis. you supported the iraq war in 2002, like hillary did. >> i wasn't in congress then. >> you supported it. >> because we -- >> ohio state, we should go to war with iraq. you said that. >> can i explain why? >> sure. >> because we had intelligence that i know indicated that sadah a weapons of mass destruction. if he did not, i would not have wanted to go. >> who told you he did. >> colin powell. >> do you think he told the truth. >> i don't think he was lying. >> i talked to the top cia just last may, sadam, no one ever say, chain nay -- chaney -- >> what did powell say. >> do you just believe people like that? >> well, chris, the whole

world -- >> did he say he had nuclear weapons. >> sure he did. >> weapons of mass destruction confused it a little bit. >> here is what i would tell you. when reagan had troops in lebanon. >> yeah. >> i voted against having them there. >> right. >> i said you don't get in civil wars. i now believe we need to get out of afghanistan. if i were president, i wouldn't be announcing the timeline. but i would give the aircraft that the afghans need, and i would get out of there. if we saw, you know, people acting up in there, we use special forces to take them out. let me go on. i've never been for being in the middle of civil wars. i'm not in favor of using u.s. forces on the ground against assad. >> why are we in iraq. >> because we thought he posed a danger. >> who told you he had nuclear weapons? >> chris. >> i just want to know who told you. >> i did answer that. i heard colin powell, cheney,

the president of the united states, and so did tony player. he is being castgaited for bad intelligence. let me tell you the way you do it. sit in the room with your intelligence person, have your non-intelligence person. your traditional military advisor, and your nontraditional military advisor, because you cannot have group think. if we had group think, kennedy would have bombed cuba. off he got to have a diversity of opinion. >> you believe w had that in the white house? why would you trust w and chaney when you know they're hawks. they wanted the war and you knew it. why did you trust their intelligence. >> i didn't know they wanted the war just to go to war. >> that's your opinion. >> it's on the record. >> look, chris, i'm going to tell you, clearly, i'm going to tell you clearly now, if sadam

had not had -- if that intelligence information, that got tony blair even to go, and that was bush's poodle. >> you know what, i just have one question. the c.i.a. didn't believe they had nuclear weapons, why did everybody else. >> i think you're recreates history. i think you are. what you're doing is monday-morning quarterbacking. >> that's how we learn. we learn when we make mistakes. >> that's right. i wouldn't do them again. if it wasn't accurate, i wouldn't go. >> just for the record, just for the record, i asked all those questions to the top c.i.a. briefer to find out what the actual objective truth was. not the political b.s. back and for t forth going to the war. mike morrell told me on my show, we've got the tape, we'll show it, where he said they never had any testimony, they never gave

testimony to the administration, that sadam hughm had nuclear we. it was spun. >> just because one guy says something. >> he is the chief briefer. >> i'm going to give you my opinion. just because one guy says something and get as i nice headline doesn't make it so. if i thought, wait a minute folks. if i thought they manipulated this to get us in a war like that, i would be -- you i think would defend them? are you kidding me? i'm -- the republican party is my vehicle. it has never been my master. i've never shied away from criticizing my party. >> you took dick chain my on your -- >> i took colin powell. >> do you think he is happy about what he did. >> of course not. we found out it wasn't true. you're not implying he was some

sort of fool or got manipulated. >> i think he was used. >> shame on all of them. >> because people like me and you trusted him. that's why. because we would believe him. we wouldn't believe chaney. >> we're not going to go willy-nilly into war any where. first of all -- >> that's what surprised me. why do you want to bring in grou ground troops -- >> are you kidding me? the first gulf war was united world. >> we didn't occupy a country. >> exactly. you know why, because bush, the father -- >> knew where to stop. >> we achieved our on skrbjecti >> we have to destroy them. >> the ground troops. >> wait a minute, chris. wait a minute. do you actually think that you could destroy them without people on the ground? are you kidding me? >> what happens when one of our guys gets picked up and they're going to be head him in two

days? don't it escalate it further. >> no. look, it's a -- >> i would think. >> i'm going to say to you is this. isis is spreading. it needs to be destroyed. the caliphate will -- it will take the air out of the radicals. number two, if you're not on the ground, it won't work. you can't just do it from the air. how many wars did we learn that in. but, let me tell you this. once they're gone. once they're gone. i'm for getting out of there. i'm not for the united states being an occupier. >> we went into afghanistan, iraq twice, libya, we're in there now against syria. when are we going to stop this regime change? >> this is not perfect. none of these other people can talk about this, because they have no experience in this. it gives me a chance to talk about. let's talk about libya. hillary clinton went and put the pressure on the administration to get rid of gadhafi.

>> check it out. >> and then let me talk about afghanistan. i would have never added the extra troops. i would have used i'm going to use special forces. when we see al qaeda somewhere, take them out with drowns. take them out with special forces. i want to get out of there. >> you want to put troops into fighting isis. >> isis is different. >> how is it for getting out of there? >> i'm not for using troops to get rid of assad. the longer we wait, the more complicated it will become and the more at risk we will be. we need to defend america. >> we'll have more questions from the voters here when we come back.

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next question. >> i want to know what is your position about north carolina bathroom law?

>> i think the governor now is trying to go and somehow improve that or fix that. i wish him the best on that. >> you have not made -- >> we're not passing anything like that in my state. >> okay. >> next question. >> i'm a democrat, a liberal democrat but you seem like a really authentic -- >> you have to vote for me in the fall. >> you seem like an authentic, really you have deeply held religious beliefs. i've always want to ask this question, i don't understand the exception part. if abortion is deemed murder, why you would make exceptions at all? >> i think they are appropriate. i think they make sense. that's why i'm for it. by the way, you just brought up the issue of faith. a lot of people say if you have faith, how does that affect the way you do things. i don't like consult the bible when i try to decide what to do. i would say the single biggest thing that faith has done to me

is to slow me down and make sure that we do pay attention to people who traditionally get run over. those are whether the disabled, whether they're the poor. it just forces me, it doesn't force me, it makes me more aware and that's how it's really served me well. >> we'll be right back with more questions with john kasich. those new glasses? they are. do i look smarter? yeah, a little. you're making money now, are you investing?

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governor, i'm going the wave the new york daily news in your face. you've been endorsed by the daily news. >> i've been endorsed by just about everybody. >> i believe some day will come that you will join colin powell in agrees you made a mistake in iraq. [ boos ] >> i want to say one last thing. >> just to get the record straight, everybody here is for you. this is not an objective focus group. >> when you do shows like this, you're only as good as the person that asks the question. every time chris and i get together, i think it's really cool and there's some magic in it. i love doing this stuff. >> i'll be right back at 11:00 tonight for a post-debate edition of hardball. the democrats face off.

stay tuned right now. chuck todd picks up things next in this exclusive town hall with senator ted cruz. all across this country people are waking up and help is on the way. >> ted cruz is riding high. >> the democrats we've got a wild eyed socialist and bernie sanders. >> now he's on his rival's home turf. >> i've got this guy looking at me talking about new york values with hatred of new york. >> you want know what liberal democratic values are follow donald trump's checkbook. >> can cruz win over new york voters and cut into trump's big fle lead in the empire state? >> we will not give up on our count country. >> good evening. welcome to the msnbc town hal