stay behind. that does it for this hour. i'm steve kornacki. tonight on ""nbc nightly news"" bashar al assad is going to join bill neel neely for an exclusiv interview. first, "mtp daily" starts right now. >> if it's wednesday, it's donald trump's veepstakes parade. a steady stream of indiana encounters. is the answer to who's your pick actually a hoosier pick? it's "mtp daily," and it starts right now. good wednesday evening. i'm peter alexander in for my friend chuck todd. welcome to "mtp daily." 12 days until the democratic convention. five days until the republican one. less than 48 hours until donald trump is expected to hold a public event alongside his vice presidential pick. who is it going to be?

today was a mad dash of veepstakes activity on the republican side. and the contest to become trump's apprentice of sorts. that is fittingly playing out like reality tv. today trump and his family met with mike pence at the governor's residence in indianapolis. they were inside for about an hour and a half. pence has become something of a favorite among veepstakes watchers. we're going to take a deeper look into how he went from talk radio host to possible running mate in a moment. also today, newt gingrich traveled to indianapolis to visit with trump and the family. nbc news has learned that new jersey governor chris christie met with members of the trump family yesterday. alabama senator jeff sessions was spotted this afternoon heading into trump's hotel through the back alley. pence, christie and gingrich are all the top tier candidates for trump's vp pick. jeff sessions is in the hunt alongside the retired general mike flynn. they join a list of prospective

running mates on the democratic side that's now winnowed down to the top three top tier names. virginia senator tim kaine, tom perez and agriculture secretary tom vilsack. secretary vilsack will join us here live on set in a few moments. it comes as new numbers show a tight three-point race in vilsack's home state of iowa. this is according to nbc news/"wall street journal"/marist polling released just a short time ago. a dead heat in ohio. the race there tied right now. 39% apiece. but in pennsylvania, clinton appears to be opening up a wide lead. look at that. clinton up nine points. 45% to 36% over trump. let's go out to the field for the latest in the hunt for a running mate. kelly o'donnell has been following the republican vp moves. she's in cleveland where convention preps are in full blast. you've been out in front of this all day long. how did indiana become the center of the veepstakes

universe on the republican side? >> it certainly was the headquarters for all of the veepstakes intrigue. it happened by accident, peter. i'm told from sources that there was a mechanical problem with trump's plane. he was in town last night for a big rally and a fund-raiser. when there was a bit of difficulty with the aircraft, they decided it would stay overnight and so would the candidate. they capitalized on that unexpected opportunity to make another visit to the official residence of the governor. and so theo oldest children of donald trump and the candidate himself were able to visit with mike and karen pence again. that really made it look like the scales were tipping and perhaps planned or serendipitous we learned about other last round meetings with the oldet children and these short list candidates. governor christie met with the family yesterday. then jeff sessions, first senator to endorse trump, was

also getting on an airplane going to indianapolis. of course, newt gingrich getting on an airplane going to indianapolis. so part of this may be actual continued conversations, part of it may be talking about plans for what will happen here in cleveland and the roles these prominent republicans will play. and part of it might be to keep us all guessing because this is one of the most intriguing parlor games in the final days before the convention. and trump is keeping it interesting and keeping us guessing. peter? >> assuming friday still holds as the day this official announcement will come, even if perhaps the answer is revealed before then. behind the scenes, who has donald trump's ear right now? >> well, i think he has spent time with each of these top tier candidates. and i think one of the interesting things that's making this challenging and why we have been repeatedly told there's no decision is there are differing camps within his trusted circle who see better qualities and better fit in each of the different top tier candidates. the pence resume, pence

temperament, the solid conservative credentials, the ability to work on capitol hill as well as the executive experience of being a governor, that's appealing to some in the group. others say newt gingrich has lots of history of fighting the clintons back in the '90s. a big thinker in the party. he'd be an interesting addition. and then some think chris christie, in a big personality way to prosecute some of the issues that donald trump will want to have in these next couple of months on the campaign trail. and the vp debate, a big moment for whomever becomes the running mate on this ticket. that's a high-profile event coming this fall. some believe that's a factor to consider. who would per form best there. >> walk us through the next 24 to 48 hours. that's all that's left. trump scheduled to do fund-raising out west. then he's supposed to head on home. >> yes, and the decision really rests with him.

and we then would expect that he'd notify each of those final candidates, have a final conversation, let them know in or out. that's typically how that would go. and then how long does that information hold? we hope not too long becausebe his choice. n then there's always a public event where the anticipation becomes the moment, the photo op. we learn a new term for this campaign. trump blank and that becomes a big part of our language over the next few months. that will be true with hillary clinton, too, when she fills in that second spot. so it's about as exciting as it can get before the convention and perhaps the showman side of donald trump is trying to make sure before his convention begins that there are lots of trap doors and lots of sparkly objects that's we're chasing to keep things interesting. >> always chasing the shiny object n hoand hopefully with a erasable pen because things seem

to be changing. kasie hunt is with the clinton campaign in springfield, illinois. she's been tracking the democrats in contention to join the ticket. let me ask you what's happening behind the scenes in terms of hillary clinton's potential pick. >> well, peter, my sense from talking to democrats and to clinton's aides privately is this really has come down to three people that are really under serious high-level consideration at this point. tim kaine, far and away still the favorite and a big test coming up for him tomorrow. he's set to campaign with hillary clinton in northern virginia tomorrow afternoon. aides putting some serious pressure on that appearance. it's going to be a real test of what their chemistry is like. whether or not the two of them get along. we're not 100% sure exactly the schedules tomorrow. but hillary clinton is going up to capitol hill right before that event is slated to take place. will they potentially have some

time to talk on the ride out there? it will be interesting to see if that's something that she does. she's approached different candidates in different ways. elizabeth warren, for example, she met with at the hotel before they appeared together to campaign. so he's one to really focus on. and tom vilsack who is coming up as i understand it. somebody who is seen like a late entrant into this speculation game we always play ahead of the vp selection. but who is somebody who has long been, in hillary clinton's inner circle. he has a relationship with hillary clinton herself and can be unusual. there are a lot of people in politics who have had a relationship with bill clinton first or perhaps that's their closer relationship. that's not the case with tom vilsack. that works in his favor with hillary clinton. she, of course, set to potentially pick him in 2008. somebody she gets along with very well and who she knows. so that's another possibility. and then, of course, we've talked some about tom perez who

is somebody who is viewed as progressive. he's an attack dog. maybe not as experienced as some people would like to see. there's some questions about whether he checks that commander in chief box right away. but he's clearly somebody that's caught hillary clinton's eye and who she seems to want to help. so that's the landscape right now, peter. >> kasie hunt reporting in springfield, illinois. thank you very much. joining us on set is clinton supporter and agriculture secretary tom vilsack. he was the governor of iowa. considered a possible running mate for john kerry in 2004. and nbc news reporting indicates that he is -- that you are a top tier candidate to be clinton's vice presidential pick this time around. fun to see your expression as we talk about you like, yeah, yeah, it's possible. let me ask you point blank. are you being vetted? those questions should be obviously directed to the campaign. what's interesting about this is the speculation on the democratic side has a whole host

of people that could potentially do this job and it's been a lot of folks on the republican side who don't want to be on the vice presidential list. >> do you think mike pence, chris christie and newt gingrich couldn't do that? >> mr. trump will have a decision to make. the reality, it's not going to be an easy job for anyone that he picks. there are some serious questions about this campaign, about his temperament, whether he is really prepared to be president of the united states, whether he can make the tough decisions. and whether he's got the right prescription for continued growth in this economy. >> so you're not going to tell me if you're being vetted. do you know if you're not being vetted? >> i think just ask the campaign and they'll be glad to give you all the information you need. >> he wants a candidate not exactly iowa nice. are you someone that can be the attack dog? you are iowa nice. can you be the attack dog against trump or his vp pick? >> the key is to make the case

about why hillary clinton is a better choice. it's a very clear choice. she's got the right prescription for the economy. strong growth, fair growth and long-term growth. he's talking about the samole cut taxes for the rich, deregulate business which led us into the recession. hillary understands in order to get the job done as an indistensable nation and so many challenges whether it's terrorism or cybersecurity or climate change, we have to work with people, not against people. >> tim kaine was my guest on this show just a couple of days ago. he said he's boring but boring is the fastest growing demkr demograph demographic. who is more boring, tom vilsack or senator kaine? >> he's a great guy. he's done a tremendous job as a senator and governor and great chair of the party. he's a wonderful man, somebody that we've campaigned together. i campaigned for him when he ran for governor. i have nothing but respect for tim kaine.

>> secretary clinton gave a big speech in springfield, illinois. you know the clinton as well as anybody. you and secretary clinton go back to 1972 during the senate watergate investigation if i'm not muss taistaken. given the fact that so many americans don't trust her right now, how the country unite behind someone they so widely distrust? >> here's the bottom line to trust. when people begin to see and hear her vision for the future, when they begin to see and understand that she's talking about equal pay -- >> she's been at this for so many years. haven't they had a chance to see that and hear that before. >> this is a different circumstance. when it's finally hillary against donald trump, one person against another, it's going to be a clear campaign. an opportunity to talk about that vision. and that vision appeals more to americans. if you look at underlying polling numbers, the question is, who relates to you best? who understands where you're coming from? hillary beats donald trump every poll in that question. so as she lays out the vision

for this country's future, as she talks about america's place in the world, i think people are going to be very comfortable making the choice for her in november. >> historically running mates have helped balance out the weaknesses of a presidential pick. what do you do that could balance out some of hillary clinton's vulnerabilities or weaknesses? >> i'll let others determine that. we have an opportunity as democrats. we have an opportunity to speak to the entire country, not just to a limited portion of the country. as i travel around the country, i think people in small towns and rural areas are open to the democratic message. that could have an impact, significantly not just on this presidential campaign but on senate races in key states. >> you are a major tpp supporter. the trans-pacific partnership. does picking you perhaps cause some form of revolt from progressives right now? obviously, the energy in the party is the progressive win. is that a potential for a revolt? >> tpp is in congress' hands. they have to make a decision before this election or some

time after this election before the next president is sworn in. that issue will be resolved one wayor another before the next president is sworn in. everybody likes trade. the issue is trade agreements. and hillary obviously has concerns about this particular trade agreement. it's clear it's supporting agricult ur. >> you and her disagree on this topic? >> there are probably a multitude of issues that people will disagree on. kind of like a marriage. i don't agree with my wife on everything, although she's right 100% of the time. that's the way this relationship would work. >> i want you to listen to something she said today. >> okay. >> i cannot stand here and claim that my words and actions haven't sometimes fueled the partisanship that often stands in the way of progress. so i recognize i have to do better, too. >> so how have secretary

clinton's actions fueled divisions? how does she overcome that? >> she overcomes it by talking about the issues that matter to people and laying out a very specific prescription for how we're going to make things better. >> how has she fueled divisions? >> look, this is a divided country right now. i think sometimes people are comfortable in that division. i think she recognizes that this has gone too far. that's we're at a place in this history, in this country's history where it's time for us to come together. and i think her recognizing the need for her to do a better job, all of us to do a better job is what a leader does. a leader calls us to do a better job. she's saying i'm going to start with myself. that's the right way as opposes to what mr. trump is doing which is to focus a campaign solely on him, not on the rest of the country. >> as a vp pick, even a surrogate for hillary clinton, your job will be to defend her record. what is her biggest -- what was her biggest accomplishment as secretary of state? >> there are millions of

children who are being fed today because of hillary clinton's work as secretary of state on the feed the future. there are tens of thousands of farmers being more productive in countries all over the world in areas that need a functioning economy that are benefiting from the work that hillary clinton has done. >> does that make what happened in the middle east failures? >> it's a prescription for how we deal with future problems. the need for the united states of america to be in a position to provide help and assistance to develop functioning economies. if you look at the areas in the world today that are hot spots, one thing is they don't have a functioning agricultural che. as secretary of state, one thing she successfully did and a republican congress just ratified this is she basically said the united states is here to help. i think that indicates a person who understands the role of the united states bringing peep together. working together with other nation. not necessarily going to be the u.s. way, our way or the

highway. that is not going to work to solve the major problems that we face globally, whether it's climate change, cybersecurity, terrorism, whatever it might be. >> secretary tom vilsack, appreciate your coming to see you. >> great to be with you. coming up, we'll turn the spotlight back on mike pence. which job does he have a better job at? landing on the trump ticket or keeping his job as governor? the answer might surprise you. in and president obama is meet with police and local activists. we're expecting comments from the president to take place after that meeting. we'll bring them right to you when they do take place here on "mtp daily." ♪ take on any road with intuitive all-wheel drive. the nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder.

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together, we're building a better california. if mike pence does not get tapped as donald trump's running mate, the indiana governor will be on the ballot for re-election. that's our race of the day. at this moment it's a rematch of the 2012 race between pence and john gregg. that was a close one.

pence won by just over 80,000 votes, the closest margin in that state in more than a half century. this time around, gregg is running more to the left. in 2012 he was against same-sex marriage but now supports it. that sets up a stark contrast with pence who signed the religious freedom restoration act. pence won by 3% but fellow republican mitt romney won the presidential vote by more than ten points. in this hyperpartisan environment, ticket splitting doesn't happen all that often but it does in the hoosier state. in 2008, obama defeated mccain but mitch daniels won re-election by almost 18 points. you might hear more from daniels soon. republicans have until this friday to set the state ballot and the weekly standard reports that daniels has not ruled out running for his old job if there's a vacancy. could make for a busy week for those ballot printers in

indiana. evan bayh as we've reported confirming that he is jumping into the race for his old seat. between late changes and history of ticket splitting, we could be in for a wild one in indiana this november. up next, more on the hoosier who could be donald trump's running mate. i'm terrible at golf.

he is. but i'd like to keep being terrible at golf for as long as i can. new patented ensure enlive has hmb plus 20 grams of protein to help rebuild muscle. for the strength and energy to do what you love. new ensure enlive. always be you. i often joke you'll be calling up mike pence. i don't know whether he's going to be your governor or vice president. who the hell knows. >> i'm governor of indiana. i'm seeking re-election. i'm honored to be considered. and humbled to be considered. >> indiana governor mike pence may not have the name i.d. of chris christie or newt gingrich but now a familiar name to a lot of people in washington. pence served in congress for more than a decade representing parts of eastern indiana in the house from 2001 to 2013. chairman of the republican study committee, a conservative caucus

pushing for limited government and social conservative causes. also chaired the house republican conference. before moving to washington, pence ran for congress unsuccessfully in '88 and 1990. in '92 started a career in radio. by '94, his show was syndicated statewide. the last time pence's name was in the national news was spring last year. he signed into law the state's religious freedom restoration act that a lot of folks saw as discriminatory to lgbt people and came under fire from inside n outside his home state. including from a number of companies that condemn the law. even cancelled planned expansions to that state. the indiana general assem plbly passed a revised bill but critics say it did not include language barring discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. joining me from indianapolis, pete seat, a consultant from the

campaign. pete, thanks for beingi inwith . you've worked in indiana politics for a long time. what do the rest of us outside your state not know about mike pence? >> the first thing to know is that he has always felt that he has a calling in public service. he's said this on the record. said this to people privately. mentioned he ran for congress unsuccessfully but then came back successfully in the year 2000. had over a decade in the house of representatives. sat on the international relations. built a portfolio and a platform across this country. people were asking him to run for president back when he was in the house. and then again in 2012 and in 2016. but this is a midwestern guy. he's not out there to upset people. he really feels like we need solutions and conservative solutions in washington. and i think that's why he's taking this process so seriously

and is interested in being the next vice president. >> sort of a middle class midwesterner. his grandfather a bus driver. his father the manager of a gas station. break down the pros and cons. the value to trump of adding pence and what are some of the cons? >> i would start with the con is that he's not necessarily from a battleground state. not from ohio or florida or pennsylvania which could become a battleground. but pence could play very well in the rust belt states. the pros are he's the most well-rounded on this list. amongst gingrich and christie and possibly jeff sessions. >> certainly newt and christie have negatives. >> they really only come with one characteristic that trump is looking for. and everything that he's looking for, someone with relationships on capitol hill, someone who has a governing record as an executive. mike pence has all of that. he is well rounded.

and if donald trump is looking for a governing partner, not just necessarily a political pick, but a governing partner, mike pence is the person. >> let's dive into the numbers. he's running for re-election. the poll just a month or so ago found that voters were split on him. 43% approve. 43% disapprove. that may be striking to people. not, in fact, all that popular in his home state. if he's not picked by trump, how good are his chances of securing another term as governor? >> it's going to be a very competitive race. he will prevail if that's what ultimately happens. look back to mitch daniels, very popular governor, ran for re-election. his approval rating was in the 30s. people were passing out bumper stickers that said ditch mitch. he ended up winning by a record margin. so, yeah, it's going to be a competitive race. no doubt about that. mike pence has found a new fire in the last couple of months in this race facing the same

candidate he faced in 2012. you saw some of that fire just last night when he introduced donald trump at the hoosier state. >> because of the religious freedom act. obviously, some conservatives, not all that keen on pike pence these days. family research council's tony perkens says he's not going to support him. is that's a problem with social conservatives? >> there are people that are going to be upset about a lot of different things. the way politics goes. not everybody is always happy. but you mention in the lead-up that a lot of businesses threatened to not expand in indiana or not come to indiana. that hasn't been the case. they were empty threats in the end. sales force, a huge company just a few weeks ago, announced they'll create 800 jobs in this state and rename the tallest building in our capital city. so those were empty threats at the end of the day. indiana is a strong state creating jobs. more people employed in this state than in the history of indiana. and that's because of what mike pence has been able to do.

>> is mike pence the vp? >> i think he's got the best shot, but, you know, we know donald trump these days. who knows how he'll feel when he wakes up tomorrow and what decision he'll ultimately make. >> pete seed helping us out from indianapolis. thank you. stay with msnbc for complete coverage of the republican national convention all next week. we're live from cleveland. and we'll be live in philadelphia the week after for the democratic national convention. slow month, right? still ahead here on "mtp daily," who has the upper hand in the case of trump versus ginsburg. the court of public opinion weighs in, next. americans are buying more and more of everything online. and so many businesses rely on the united states postal service to get it there. because when you ship with us, your business becomes our business. that's why we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes

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we're back. time for an executive judiciary cage match in the ws. the who or whose, donald trump and ruth bader ginsburg. the what, it's justice ginsburg with some choice words. she told "the new york times" friday, i can't imagine what this place would be. i can't imagine what the country would be with donald trump as our president. ginsburg doubled down to cnn on monday saying he's a faker. he has no consistency about him. he says whatever comes into his head at the moment. the where, it's justice ginsburg's seat on the high court. trump wants her out. he tweeted justice ginsburg of the u.s. supreme court has

embarrassed all by making very dumb political statements about me. her mind is shot. resign with an exclamation point. the when, it's not very often supreme court justices are historically above the fray of politics. at least publicly. the latest antonin scalia drew ire in 2004 for duck hunt with vice president cheney. clarence thomas often receives criticism for his wife's job as a conservative consultant. neither made political statements. now the why. some unexpected allies on trump's side. both "the washington post" and "the new york times" publishing editorials critical of ginsburg's remarks. neither paper called for ginsburg to resign but they both characterize her comments as inappropriate. here's why it matters. justices never want their judgment or impartiality questioned while on the bench. if this ends up going to the supreme court like it did in

bush v. gore, they might call on ginsburg to recuse herself. tonight on "nbc nightly news," an interview with bashar al assad. there's a lot more ahead to "mtp daily." first, hampton pearson with the market wrap. >> thanks, peter. we had stocks ending the day mixed. the dow rising by 24 points moving further into record territory. the s&p inching higher to finish at another record. the nasdaq shedding 17 points. it was a down day for oil. crude oil sank more than 4% to close at a two-month low after a smaller than expected drawdown in government stockpiles. and the federal reserve's beige book report on regional economic conditions shows hiring and the economy grew modestly last month. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide.

i want to say something to my congressman. i've been a republican all my life. i get party loyalty. but there'loyalty to your country... and the things donald trump says... about immigrantsnd women... veterans... i mean, how can we put up with that? how can republican members of congress support that? if he's our standard-bear, what the heck happened to our standards?

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right now at the white house, the president is holding

a closed door meeting with officials, law enforcement officers, faith leaders and members of the civil rights community. they're talking about criminal justice and community policing. there are nearly 40 people at this meet, including cornell brooks, president of the naacp, governor john bell edwards of louisiana, deray mckesson from black lives matter, reverend al sharpton. there are also representatives from nine different police organizations that are in on this conversation. attorney general loretta lynch and two other justice department officials in the room as well. this meeting at the white house is happening on the same day as funerals for three of the five slain dallas police officers. speaking of dallas yesterday, the president balanced praise for police with a blunt acknowledgment of racial bias in the criminal justice system. tomorrow the family of philando castile will lay him to rest in minnesota. and alton sterling will have a funeral service on friday in

baton rouge. we are expecting to hear from the president shortly when that meeting wraps up. as soon as it does, we'll take you to his remarks. we want to take you to the white house and ron allen. the president cleared his schedule taking two to three hours for this conversation today. that in itself is pretty unusual. what are they hoping to accomplish behind closed doors? >> peter, it is highly unusual for the president to clear his calendar for something, but that just speaks to the moment that i think the president feels the nation is in. these issues of race, policing, protests, criminal justice, have all come together in such a volatile and explosive mix over the past week or so. n t and the president is trying to drive this conversation forward. after these things happen, people retreat to their corners and their fixed positions and partisan positions. and nothing seems to happen. the president seems determined to try and make people

understand the other side's position and make people understand his position because, obviously, he's been criticized by both the protest community, the civil rights community for not standing up for them and by the police community for not standing up and backing cops on the beat. so the president is caught in the middle and he's trying to basically have people see each other's side of this very contentious issue. that, of course, is at the center of america's discussions and disputes about race in america. so we expect to hear from the president within the next half hour or so. the meeting seems to be running over. we may hear from some of the participants in the meeting as well. what the white house is trying to do again is hitting the headwinds of the fact the federal government has very limited authority in this area. police matters are local issues. and they vary from community to community. but basically, the white house has what has been called this

21st century policing task force set of recommendations they've come up with that tries to create trust in communities, transparency and understanding. and that's what the president is trying to get all these groups to embrace and move forward on and execute on a day-to-day basis. it's a tough and tall order. >> tall order and tough conversation for many across the country. ron allen, thanks. we want to turn to baton rouge, louisiana, where the investigation into the shooting death of alton sterling by police remains under investigation. the aclu of louisiana along with other local groups filing a lawsuit against the baton rouge police department for its treatment of demonstrators protesting sterling's death. today we heard from sterling's 15-year-old son for the first time pleading for unity in his community. it came as police in baton rouge were investigating what they believe to be a plot to kill police officers. nbc's charles hadlock is tracking those developments. he's in baton rouge for us

again. break down the latest for us, if you can. >> hi, peter. a thunderstorm is hitting baton rouge so it's noisy. let me take you back 24 hours ago. the baton rouge police department and east baton rouge parish police office held a news conference saying they'd arrested four people who had broken into pawn shops to steal guns to kill police officers. when you look at the warrant today, there's no word of the plot to kill anybody. nbc news reached one of the suspects. he said he had nothing to do with it. nothing to do with the burglary and nothing to do with the plot to kill anyone. this all started last saturday when someone broke into the cash america -- four suspects were seen breaking through the roof of that business. they stole eight guns. one of the victims -- one of the

suspects was caught a few miles away on his bicycle. he had three weapons. they were returned. so there are two weapons still missing. one of the weapons that was taken, peter, was a bb gun. so the threat here is still not known if there is a threat against police officers. yesterday they said there was. but the court documents say there was no plot, peter. >> charles, we hear that storm moving in. we'll tell you to stay safe and dry. thanks for that live update. coming up next, politics across the pond. the details of today's transfer of power in the uk. ♪ take on any road with intuitive all-wheel drive. the nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder. now get 0% apr for up to 72

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it has been the greatest honor of my life to serve our country as prime minister over these last six years. and to serve as leader of my party for almost 11 years. >> the government i lead will be driven not by the interests of the privileged few but by yours. we will do everything we can to give you more control over your lives. >> if you're already over the way we handle presidential campaigns here, you may be wondering why we don't do it more like our allies across the pond. less than three weeks after david cameron said he'd step down following the brexit, the british exit vote, theresa may is already britain's new prime minister. cameron tendering his resignation earlier today at buckingham palace. mere moments later, theresa may

there to kiss the hand of queen elizabeth. a sort of swearing in ceremony. prime minister may was selected by process of elimination. the other members of the conservative party who were vying for the role of leader all dropped out. may is now only the uk's second female prime minister after the iron lady, margaret thatcher. she'll have the task of ushering the uk through the process of leaving the european union, even though she was a remain person. one of may's first moves as prime minister was naming boris johnson one of the leaders of the brexit movement as foreign secretary. we'll be right back with "the lid."

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politics. it's time for "the lid." my colleague, kristen welker. we shared a small booth at the white house for long enough to call each other friends. vp of the bipartisan policy center, robert traynham. and ron klaine. you've been in that room as it were on the presidential side and on the potential vp side of this. so if you are the presidential side of things right now, what are the conversations looking like? what are you looking for as you're vetting these candidates in these final days? >> it's hard to understand what the trump conversation is like. secretary clinton is in a dierent position. she served in two administrations and has seen how important vice presidents are in governing. in her room, the conversation is about picking a partner in governing. we tend to overstate the significance these candidates play on the campaign trail, how much of a difference it makes. lloyd benson was a great

presidential candidate. didn't help michael dukakis win. i don't think this is a political choice for her. it's who does she want to wake up and see first thing in the morning, work with all day and can make a real in the morning. >> on the potential pick side for the vp waiting to be called. hey, you'll have to ask the campaign or whatever they say. take me inspied world. >> well, i think it is a time of nervous waiting. anticipation. there is nothing you can do to control it. if you're on the final list, you're on the final list. it is a personal decision the candidate makes. you can't do anything other than sit around and wait. i remember with senator biden in 2008, we hung out at his house. we ate a lot of italian food. the only thing you can do is wait for the phone call to come. >> what the thinking is in the final days. we had secretary vilsack here. it took place on this broadcast. what are they looking for with

the secretary tomorrow? >> well, i think ron hit the nail on the head. they're looking for the chemistry with secretary clinton. the person who will become her vice presidential pick and that has a lot to do with how they will govern together. i think the top three that we are sort of focusing on in materials of our reporting, secretary vilsack, tom perez, the labor secretary, who is very popular with progressives and who secretary clinton really admires. thinks that he has a strong record in terms of getting things accomplished and then of course tim kaine. if you talk to democrats, he checks all the boxes. those are the three. then elizabeth warren, not out of the running. she would stir progressives. get all of those sanders support here's are not quite toward get secretary clinton on board. i don't think we'll see decision in the coming days but certainly some time after the gop convention likely. >> trying to step on it

immediately after trump steps on stage. >> how concerned should the clinton votes be, she has new poll numbers showing her even in ohio. she does need florida by a significant number and in pennsylvania. but there are some other numbers show this is a pretty tight race. i'm sure the clinton folks have a real anxiety. do they need on answer? >> i think so. >> like what? >> two things. the trump factor is number one. this e-mail thing is the straw that breaks the cam he's back on the whole trust thing. the latest polls i saw in those battle ground states is that donald trump has a higher trust rate. >> the favorability is pretty low. >> that's true. but that's number one. number two, i think what donald trump has to find in his running mate, to that point, is someone that will help govern. at the end of the day, we know about vice presidential picks do not move the needle with the exception of lyndon johnson in

1960. but donald trump has to go one step further. he has to find a conservative, a lot of folks are saying we don't know what you believe so we know a number two who we know is tried and tested. who will be there for the supreme court, on the partial birth abortion. the true conservative issues. >> if you're the clinton team, i think we're seeing the unifying of the democratic party. >> i thought it went very well. to have senator sanders out there, telling people to vote for her. the republicans, by contrast, still badly divided. the only way they can get high profile people to speak there is if they have that pokemon go up there. they are party that is fragmented. we're going to have an amazing convention. i think that will give her a real boost as we come out of that and head to the fall.

>> conventions don't win elections. at the end of the day, the real question what happens in early november? >> but donald trump rightnow, these conventions could be a big deal. it is his opportunity to reset this thing. probably three big moments. the vp pick, the conventions and the debate. >> there is no doubt i think you'll see both of these candidates get a bump after the conventions. i think one of the big questions, what will we see from the candidates themselves, from the vice presidential picks and from their surrogates. we think about secretary clinton. she sort of has an all star lineup. president obama, elizabeth warren is that now bernie sanders. i was talking on a campaign official who said he will be out on the campaign trail with her. he is planning to attend more events, particularly in those states where did he well. that could help with not only his supporters but those white working class vote here's mean looking at trump. >> what do they say? there was a unified picture of

she and bernie sanders on stage together. john kasich, the home state governor, he won't even step into the arena. ted cruz will speak but he hasn't endorsed. paul ryan has been there but he is telling people to vote their conscience. isn't there significant divisions for the republicans to overcome? >> yes but we know that donald trump is such an unconventional candidate that he makes his own rules and his own path. i don't think it matters. i'm not a trump supporter but to his case, it is his brand and his brand alone. i think if he did have surrogates out there speaking on his behalf, it wouldn't be as effective. at t at the end of the day this is trump's to win or lose. >> i'm from indiana. the home state of five vice presidents from indiana. >> donald trump, chris christie, when you look at the chemistry, i think it is all chris christie. >> i think it will be pence.

the optics i thought were fascinating at the governor's mansion. >> it happened in end because there was a mechanical issue with the plane. wasn't supposed to be there. >> you couldn't script it any better for tv. i think the optics were interesting. we were going back to this word chemistry, looking very closely. does he have the same type of chemistry with chris christie? not necessarily. but pence is someone who could potentially ground him. >> but it is all about loyalty with him. >> let me take a quick break. i twoonl finish that thought. we'll be right back. ♪ nah. what else? what if we hire more sales reps? ♪ nah. what else? what if we digitize the whole supply chain? so people can custome their bike before they buy it. that worked better than expected. i'll dial it back. yeah, dial it back. just a little. live business, poweredy sap. when you run live, you run simple.

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that's all for us tonight. we'll bring you the president's comments following his meeting with police activists coming up as soon as we get they will. "all due respect" starts now. >> with all due respect to donald j. trump, your search for a running mate becomes kind of confusing. maybe even to you. >> i'm narrowing it down. i'm at three, potentially four. but in my own mind, i am probably thinking about two. >> three, two, one, here we go. it would not be the veep stakes season without some dramatic twists and turns. today donald trump took his showmanship to n