gloorm good morning, i'm tamron hall, a few blocks away from quicken loans arena, the site of the republican normal convention. this morning we begin with mounting spence. this time tomorrow morning, donald trump will announce his vice presidential nominee. the question, of course, who will it be? our nbc political team has learned the list is now down to three big names. governor chris christie, governor mike pence and newt gingrich, all names that have been floated around for some time now. but it is still very possible, we're told, that donald trump could surprise everyone and announce someone who is not on the list. for now, though, trump is offering very few clues. >> i just want to pick somebody that's very good. i want to pick somebody who is solid, smart. i'm not looking for an attack dog. frankly, i'm looking for somebody that really understands

what we're talking about. >> now politico reports that donald trump was leaning towards chris christie. however, the trump children and his son-in-law want him to take a safer pick, if you will, and take a closer look at mike pence. the indiana governor is reportedly also the top choice of trump's top adviser, paul manafort. all three have been in close contact, all three of those names on the list, in close contact with donald trump. >> i think he's giving it very careful consideration. and we're humbled to be a part of that. there is a number of other note-worthy americans they're considering. and i'm just honored to be on that list. >> trump has got to decide, does he want a second person who is really as effective on television, or does he want somebody who is really good at reaching out on a personal basis to people, who, frankly, trump may not be able to reach on his own.

i think that's a very big decision for him. >> now, after trump met with governor pence at the governor's residence yesterday, he later met with newt gingrich. an interesting detail about that meeting has emerged. a source tells nbc that fox news host sean hannity flew the former speaker of the house to indianapolis on board a private jet. there is also this. cnn now reporting that as early as this week, donald trump reached out to former secretary of state, condoleezza rice, about being ace running mate. she declined. meanwhile, the other big headline out of the rnc this morning, after promise to go release the list days ago, this morning the trump campaign did, in fact, release a partial list of who will speak at the convention. what's gaining the most buzz this morning, it seems, are the names not on that list. and we'll reveal that to you. we've got all it covered with our team here in cleveland. outside, though, trump tower this morning in new york city, is katy tur, in manhattan outside the trump tower where trump is expected to make that announcement in new york city

tomorrow. so katie, what have you heard this morning? >> we're all reading the tea leaves right now, this morning. that speaker list certainly very interesting this morning. governor pence not on the speaker list, but governor chris christie was. also newt gingrich on that list. that's the three front runners right now for donald trump's running mate. does that mean that governor pence has a prime speaking spot they don't want to give away and that's why they haven't added him on this list or is it just an oversight or potentially is he not going to be going to the convention to speak at all, because he is not donald trump's running mate? we're all trying to figure it out. also, governor pence apparently has just bought a two-week ad buy in indiana for his re-election campaign. politico is reporting that right now. does that mean he's not on the list? not necessarily. he could back out of that if he wants to or if he needs to, because he accepts the running mate nod. he can also hand over that

two-week ad buy in going up the democrat for that governor's race in indiana. now governor pence has a lot of things going tore him. the campaign said they were extraordinarily impressed with him the other night. donald trump himself very impressed with him. they were impressed with how loud and how forceful he was on stage. normally, quite a practiced and earnest man. they were impressed that he was able to go in as an attack dog. so right now there are a lot of fans for governor pence within the campaign, within the family. but there's also newt gingrich and chris christie, and ultimately donald trump will have to decide who he wants to spend not just the rest of his campaign season with, but the next four to eight years with. tamron? >> all right, katy tur, thank you very much. and we have breaking news to report. the back and forth between donald trump and supreme court justice, ruth bader ginsburg. ginsburg now says, and this just happened. she regrets her comments regarding the republican presumptive nominee.

in a few separate interviews over the past few days, the supreme court justice referred to donald trump as a, quote, faker, and said he has no consistency about him. i'm joined by nbc justice correspondent, pete williams and msnbc's justice. let's start with breaking news. it is not an apology, if will you, but interesting comments from the justice. >> what she basically says is what was i thinking? here's her statement. quote, on reflection, my recent remarks in response to press inquiries were ill advised and i regret making them. judges should avoid commenting on a candidate for public office. in the future, i will be more circumspect, end quote. we believe she has been considering issuing a statement since yesterday for at least 24 hours after all of the controversy over her in essence, he isca lathe remarks. she is now joining other legal scholars who say this is not

what judges should do. there is a cannon of judicial ethics that say judges should endorse or criticize candidates for public office. and she says, i agree, i shouldn't have done this. >> irin carmon, you wrote the book on justice ginsburg. i saw you last night talking about how deliberate she is about every word, and her presence on the court and what it represents. now backtracking on these comments. from what you know, what happened heirin? >> i can say it's highly out of character. normally does things very by the books, very correct. so my analysis has been she considers donald trump such a profound threat to the democracy and constitution that she stepped out of her normal role. she may not have been prepared for the kind of backlash that pete referred to from the "new york times" or "washington post," colleagues she respects. so she may have decided it was time to back away from making the comments in the first place

without really repudiating any of the substance of what she said. i'll note, you know, you pointed out, she didn't apologize, bake away from her statements, merely said it was inappropriate to have made them. >> irin carmon, pete williams, thank you both. now back here in cleveland, even more news to report. let's go to kelly o'donnell, outside the quicken loans arena. and kelly, we now have a partial list of the speakers. a lot of surprises regarding who will not be taking the stage. at least on the list we have received right now. >> well, a partial list has been slow in coming, to say the least. and that may be a part of two different ways to look at this. the fact that the trump team has wanted to build some spence, wanted to have some surprise factor and on the other end, could be a function of the calculation that people make when they want to participate or not participate. and politically, we have seen that all year. some whoment to be in the game and some who would prefer not

to, because of their differences with the nominee. so we've got some celebrities, we have certainly the trump family. we will see melania trump, who rarely had a public role during this entire 11, 123, 13 months her husband has been a candidate. a few interviews, a few appearances. she will be among the speakers, along with the other grown children of donald trump. on the celebrity end, perhaps, you know, we could have a range of talents from different forms from music, from dance, from acting. and then from athletics. tim tebow, well-known for being a quarterback who makes headlines. kind of in keeping with sort of the trump mode. and then there is the question of who are the elected officials. you'll have the man who was for a long time known as america's mayor, rudy guiliani, vocal during the campaign season. also ted cruz, one of the rivals who decides he's going to participate. when i've talked to ted cruz, he says he wants to make sure he

sends a message to conservatives to encourage them to keep fighting for their principles. paul ryan, as the highest office holder in the republican party. and governor rick scott of florida, florida, florida, florida, so crucial. and another former rival, one of the first who dropped out of the race, scott walker of wisconsin. if you remember, tamron, he encouraged other republicans to get out of the way so that there could be a consensus nominally that was not donald trump. so there have been bruised feelings along the way, differing opinions, and still a little kind of catch factor coming up. we won't know all of the names, so there will be some surprises to come. >> kelly, just going back, if we could put back on the screen the politicians, the lawmakers who will be there. obviously, paul ryan, mitch mcconnell. and rudy guiliani. those are people you could seemingly write the speech they will give. what's interesting, is ted cruz or scott walker, what message will they present to the audience? will it be the focus -- heavy

focus on hillary clinton in keeping her out of the white house, and the -- and the party, or will they take the purity route and try to really emphasize conservative values? what will their speech, especially as you pointed out, scott walker, a part of the stop trump movement, as recently, it seems, a month ago on that stage? >> well, in another dimension to this, tamron, is the individual personal political ambitions of those who participate. yes, they will hit the notes about the campaign that we're living in right now. but for a ted cruz a a scott walker, both men in their 40s who have many more opportunities to try to be nationally prominent again, it is a way to sort of state their case for the future. depending on what office they may want to seek. ted cruz has already told us he's running for re-election for his senate seat. governor walker has already won twice in wisconsin, and then had the recall. so will they try to be in the presidential sweep takes again.

i think that's part of what you'll see from some of those big names, trying to carve out a place for down the line. tamron? >> and just quickly, kelly, on the list of celebrities, if you watch what's trending on twitter right now, our team noticed that it's tim tebow of the people on that list. and not obviously because he's a former quarterback, but because of his conservative views and that's why i would assume he's on that stage. it was supposed to be we heard tom brady and maybe even some other famous coaches like bobby knight. those people so far not revealed on the celebrity list. >> well, donald trump has often touted his support among sports figures. and talked on the trail when i've been at his events about wanting to have what he called a winner's night with people who have been stars in their athletic arenas to be participating in this. and it also sort of demographically goes with a key voter block that donald trump does well with. men. he has a gender advantage there. and the sports figures who are typically not political bring a

different sort of energy to this kind of an event. and bring a different set of fans who might be interested in what they would say in this sort of context. so expect that those close endorsers from the coaching group, i think they could be on the list of those added as we get closer to the big day. >> we certainly know that tim tebow is a political figure so he does check boxes as far as an athlete. but mostly now these days, for some of his views politically. thank you very much. also now, thousands will travel for next week's convention. authorities here in cleveland are taking into account recent events as they prepare for their security plans. >> we've talked about, of course, since dallas, and other things have happened how we better that, how we make sure that the people that are coming to enjoy the convention understand that they're going to be allowed to express their first and second amendment rights. and all their constitutional rights. but we're also going to make sure that people are safe.

and that's what we plan on doing. >> nbc's jacob rascon is here in cleveland. he's been speaking with some of the security officials, and jacob, let's talk about the perimeters here. i got in last night. the people of cleveland greeting you at the airport. every other person has one of these green can i help you shirts. so they're trying to convey that cleveland is not on lockdown. they have allotted for a mile and a half for protests. how are they balancing the security concerns with the concerns that this is not a lockdown city? >> it is such a difficult concern. even the driver, the person who drove me to where i am today, who grew up in cleveland, was looking at all of the steal fences and said i feel like i'm in a war zone. but the officers are being so good with the press and the -- they're showing officers like these folks who grew up in cleveland, they're really proud of their city. these are some of, of course, the officers on horseback and paco here, this horse, and bass

here. they're going to be helping out with crowd control. among other things. and then we have over here, also working on crowd control, we have the officers on bike. they have 300 or so of these. and they will be riding along with the crowds, if the crowds get hostile, they'll try to separate them. and they have a number of tactics they're working on there. and then, of course, the bomb squad out with their dogs. already, sniffing around and looking for possible suspicious packages or anything they think they would need for that. of course, they have their big robot here. and a smaller one here that will -- can go in ahead of the bigger robot and can go under cars. you can see how small it is, designed by youth technology academy. i'm reading on their shirts. then you have their suits they're showing off down here, brand new suits that weigh about 70 pounds, which, of course, they hope not to have to use. and then we'll end over here with those on motorcycle. and we have officer frank here. officer, what is your main

concern next week with the big crowds? >> there's going to be crowd control, just to keep everybody together. we want everybody to be safe. we want everybody to have a good time. we welcome the rnc here and we welcome all of the people here. but we want everybody to be safe and respectful so everybody can enjoy the event. >> got it, as somebody from cleveland, you're obviously proud of your city. what -- what is a -- is it a concern for you the open carry laws? we have been talking about that since dallas. >> for myself, it's not a concern. generally, people that open carry are not out to hurt you. it's the people that are concealing the weapon. because if you don't know what's there, it's more dangerous than if you know what's there. i've been a traffic officer now for 20 years, a cleveland division of please 22 years. i was born and raised in cleveland. i know the citizens well. most people are very respectful. a few you run into that are not. >> thank you so much, officer. the concern, you have thousands of people coming from out of

town and how will they act? well, the city of cleveland says they'll be prepared. tamron? >> so jacob, for people who don't understand and don't live in this area, or don't live in a city or state with open carry, what are the perimeters here that officers must deal with and people should expect? >> so what we have are two rings of security. you have this secret service security zone, which is directly around the convention center. and elsewhere where the delegates would be. no weaponry of any kind allowed there. and that's surrounded by these fences, these steel fences you see. then the event zone, a two square mile zone outside of that, where the protesters will be. and state law applies there, in which ohio is one of 44 states that allows the open carrying of long guns, and one of 46 states that allows the open carrying of handguns, with some exceptions. again, usually you don't see it,

except with activist groups trying to make a statement. and we do expect some of that. >> all right. thank you, jacob. now we want to take you to the huntington convention center, a couple blocks from the quicken loans arena in downtown cleveland. very close to actually where we are right now. this is the empty room where the anti trump movement within the republican party was expected to make its last stand at the two-day convention rules meeting. the room is empty, because the meeting is in an unplanned recess until 1:00 p.m. eastern time. we're getting word that the rnc chair, reince priebus, and trump officials, are now using that recess to cut a deal to avoid a convention shutdown or showdown with anti trump delegates. here with the latest from inside the rules committee meeting is msnbc's chief legal correspondent, ari melber. what do we know about the deal-making happening right now? >> what we know is this was supposed to be a boring day of rules meetings. so far, it has been anything but. it started off around 9:00 a.m., when the committee made the odd announcement that everything was going to be delayed for a

so-called printer jam. then they came become an hour later and said forget that excuse, which turns out to look pretty untrue. we're just going to recess until 1:00 p.m. and then msnbc has learned and reported that while all of this was going on, backstage, reince priebus was trying come up with some sort of back room deal. why does that matter? as you reported and said, this was going to be a series of public votes on potential off-ramps to trump, which we always said was unlikely, because he did clinch the nomination and does have the votes. rather than having those public meetings, now they're trying to work something out. what? we might find out at 1:00. it is a sign of two things. both, number one, there is a real anti trump effort here, that it matters that, it has thrown at least this day of meetings off course. but two, that the rnc from the top-down from reince priebus and to trump officials, as well, takes it seriously and has a plan. that is to say, they are willing to go into back rooms and cut

deals because they want to work something out that is orderly. and if the anti trump folks are going to lose, they want them to lose in a way that hopefully for the party feels orderly and has unity. that's the big debate. this was definitely unplanned this morning. >> okay. and ari, how does this impact the conversation over delegates and whether or not they are able to potentially able to vote their conscience? >> spoeskly on that, the question was whether a quarter of this committee, 28 delegates, would vote for that, which could then bring it to the floor, which would mean this convention would start, not with all hail donald trump, but start with a floor vote over what you said, potentially having an off-ramp. now we are told in our whip count, alex jaffe, we don't find that 28 votes. we don't think they have the votes. but if they did or got there today, you would get up to something where the convention could start with that debate over whether delegates could be somehow unbound or consciously vote against trump. that's one of the issues they're

secretly discussing. >> a lot is happening. coming up, our new poll shows donald trump is earning zero percent of the black vote in two swing states. ohio and pennsylvania. this as the "new york times" poll finds 69% of americans say race relations are bad. up next, i'll talk live with pastor darrell scott of cleveland, who is one of a few african-american church leaders supporting donald trump. find out what he says donald trump needs to do. he fails to pull more minorities into his coalition. and erie island, coffee in ohio, where action takes place monday. is when it starts. but as you can hear and see, there's a lot going on already. we'll be right back. been making dog chow for 36 years now.

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welcome back, everyone. we are live in cleveland, ohio, where meeting of the rnc rules committee is set to resume in just a few hours. and what's a last stand for the never trump movement. donald trump's opponents are pushing for changes to make it more difficult for him to win the number of delegates to clinch the nomination. i'll be speaking with a member of the rules subcommittee later this hour to find out about this report, that there is some deal-making going on right now. meanwhile, startling numbers on african-american support for donald trump. and a few swing states from our new nbc news "wall street journal" poll. ohio, trump has zero percent support from african-americans. but in past statements, trump thinks he can certainly gain support amongst black voters.

here's what he has said. >> we're going to do great with the african-americans. they want jobs. they want jobs. >> we're going to rebuild our inner cities, which are absolutely a shame and so sad. we're going to take care of our african-american people that have been mistreated for so long. >> those were comments back in june. joining me now today, pastor darrell scott, a trump supporter, who is actually now speaking at the republican national convention, one of the names released just a few hours ago. thank you so much for joining us. first of all, let's talk about your message. we saw the list there. what's's your role in the convention, as far as the trump supporter? >> mr. trump insisted upon me being one of the speakers on that night. i think i'm speaking wednesday night when they confirm the vp nominee. and i'm just going to give some thought to some talk to the state of this country.

and my feelings about mr. trump. >> how would you describe the state of this country? listen, for people who don't know, your church is hugely popular here in cleveland. you're one of the african-american leaders. you can rattle off a number of lawmakers and presidential nominees and senators who have stopped by that church in the past. so you're not new to the political world. so what is your view of the state of this country right now with the manure supporting? >> well, when i look at the country, we have civil disorder, rioting in the street. i'm seeing conditions in this country i haven't seen since the '60s. the graduation rate for blacks is lower than it's been since 1963. we have police brutality, police are even killing people. we have black people rioting committee streets. we can't get jobs. education rate is low. for african-americans right now, things aren't rosie. >> how does trump -- or what has donald trump proposed that would solve those problems? >> i've had several conversations with him behind the scenes about dealing with black issues.

we talked about black lives matter. we talked about police brutality or police killings. he says something i thought was very interesting. he said, i wonder why police don't shoot to wound if they feel the use of deadly force is necessary? shoot to wound rather than shoot to kill. if i -- >> why is he saying that to you in private and not saying it publicly when he gets in front of the rally? he often present himself just recently as the law and order. but emphasizes the perspective of police and not the perspective and concerns of groups like black lives matter. >> because i've had these conversations with him. and i invited other african-americans to have these conversations and they declined. they declined to have the conversation. >> he declined to go to the naacp. >> scheduling. that's the same as the rnc. trying to pick a vice president, going all over the place trying to get to cleveland. he's busy. >> but if you are trying to persuade a group you are listening to their concerns, then why not carve out a moment to be there, especially when you

are at zero support in key states like ohio and pennsylvania? >> that poll is garbage. i mean, they're going to poll me. i'm in ohio. so i will make up the zero, zero, zero, zero, point 1 percent. >> we know how they work. they don't poll every individual. >> i said this to you before. there are a number of african-americans that support donald trump, but they're afraid of the backlash that we see from friends, family and community, and the peers and the social. they're not public with it. but trump is talking about creating jobs for the african-american community. i've talked to him about redeveloping and revitalizing our -- urban communities. we have talked about -- >> again -- >> germane to the black community. it was myself and a number of other blacks. >> but behind closed doors. do you believe he is speaking that same way and with those same ideas when he is at those huge rallies? >> he will, yes. >> but he has not. >> but those questions have not been posed to him.

>> a lot of questions haven't been posed he has volunteered answers to. >> maybe that's at the top of his list. these questions, i've provided several different occasions for members of the african-american to have this face-to-face pointed dialogue with trump, and they refused to attend. you can't bash a meeting you refuse to come to. >> donald trump on his facebook page did mention the names of alton sterling and philando castile in his facebook comments following those shootings. do you believe that he is ready to have open dialogue with members of black lives matter, and that he understands their concerns? do you believe that? >> he understands the concerns of american citizens. he doesn't believe -- >> but particularly what we are seeing, though, is -- and we have a case we're going to report on. there has been a man -- a white unarmed 19-year-old, video released of his shoring. fresno, california. what we have seen in the last few days, and it seems more so, deal with african-americans.

>> well, if the black lives matter and other groups want to talk to mr. trump, they can contact me. i can make it happen. i can make -- >> so the door is open to -- >> the doors have been open. the doors have always been open. but they want to stand outside the door and criticize the door, rather than come into the door and just directly communicating. >> the "new york times" has this article today and says that whites are sensing a decline and for them, donald trump unleashes words of resistance. in the following quote, everyone sticking together. this is what woman said, to their groups. so white people have to too. you have a large number of white voters who believe that donald trump is speaking to their fears that they are on the verge of being eliminated, whether it's people in this country illegally, whether it's african-americans or black lives matter. why is he so appealing to some of these groups who say -- are tied to white supremacists or tied to this notion of angry white voters, feeling they're under siege. >> ethnicity plays a large part in any decision-making process.

when you have people -- the irish support the irish, the jews support the jews and a number of blacks supported obama simply because he was black. he appealed to black nationalists, black revolutionari revolutionaries. so to donald trump -- they're going to vote for somebody they like. >> but the bottom line moving forward, you believe there will be potentially a door open for donald trump to have an outreach with black lives matter. >> it is a door open. we're forming boards now. i'm on a board. i'm on a board with him to have minority outreach. black outreach. we have a diversity coalition. we're also going to talk at african-americans specifically for dialogue. and once again, we -- endeavor to do this several times in the past. if i name the names in public of the people who i invited to attend these meetings, that refuse to attend, but want to sit outside the meeting and criticize, i even had preachers that refused to attend the meeting that criticized donald trump in public and tried to speak out the back door and get private. i had the e-mails to prove it. i don't want to pull their pants

down in front of the nation. >> thank you so much. we look forward to hearing your comments on wednesday at the rnc. thank you. coming up, cleveland's own lebron james joins three of the nba's top players, in a powerful stand for justice. they are calling for nonviolence following a turbulent week in this country. >> it's time to look in the mirror and ask ourselves, what are we doing to create change? we all have to do better. >> up next, new reaction to the message of we all have to do better from some of the biggest names in sports. this happened last night at the espe awards. we'll play more of what they said. for lower back pain sufferers, the search for relief often leads to places like...

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particularly. in a moment, yesterday's espe awards last night, james made an impassioned plea and was joined by fellow nba players, friends like carammelo anthony, chris pl and dwyane wade. >> the events of the past week have put a spotlight on the injustice, distraut and angered. >> the racial pro filing has to stop. the shoot to kill mentality has to stop. >> it's time to look in the mirror and ask ourselves, what are we doing to create change? >> and joining me now, dave ziren, sports writer for the nation. dave, you walk into cleveland's airport, you see nba championship t-shirts, alongside celebrating the fact this is the host city of the rnc. so it's only appropriate we're here. and the favorite son of ohio was on that stage, talking about this. it reminds me so much obviously of jim brown of the cleveland browns and what he was able to do. >> yeah, and there was that

moment at the cleveland cavaliers' victory parade, where it was jim brown, who, of course, captained the last championship, literally passing the trophy in front of 1.3 million people to lebron james. and i could see why it would be very tempt to go see last night as a different kind of passing of a trophy or a torch, if you will, from one generation of political athletes to another, with about 20 years in between where athletes really weren't political. and the idea was just to shut up and play. that & that's really what was important about last night, tamron. i think we have forever turned the page on the michael jordan, republicans buy sneakers too. a stake is in the heart of the idea now that athletes, their only job is to shut up and play. and i'll tell you what that's going to do. it doesn't only change a political conversation in this country. but it also protects so many more marginal athletes who might want to say something, but fear their spot on a team could be jeopardized if they speak out. now they can say, hey, i'm just

speaking out like lebron, carmelo, chris paul and dwyane wade. how can you kick somebody off then? >> better yet, i'm speaking out like tim tebow did. tim tebow is going to be at the rnc, a former player now, but he was vocal while playing about his beliefs. and i do believe that there have been occasions where some of the african-american athletes have been criticized for being political, and it was easier to paint them as angry or hostile, when it wasn't the case for a tim tebow. >> exactly. and, you know, that's the thing, that whenever they say sports and politics don't mix, whenever they have said it, you look a little closer and what they're really saying is that sports and a certain kind of politics don't mix. because it was always fine for tim tebow to do what he did for steve largent, jc watts, those ex athletes, lynn swann. but when it came time for athletes to say something, like aton thomas or steve nash around the war in iraq in the 2000s,

craig hodges, mahmud from the '90s, they found themselves drummed out of the sport. so what you see here is a equivalence of a new generation of athletes saying we are going to speak out loudly and proudly. >> and they do it in a year we have lost muhammed ali and perhaps they know that the true torch is now with them, as citizens and not just ball players. thank you very much. appreciate it. coming up, we have a new poll out is that shows that donald trump is closing the gap in at least two battleground states. but those same polls also bring bad news for donald trump and it seems these days polls for both clinic done and donald trump are a mix of good news,/bad news. we'll get you caught up on the first read highlights you need to know this morning. nbc's senior political editor, mark murray, breaks down the top three political stories. and as we come to you live from erie island, the crowds

coming out. more people showing up i guess close to their lunch break. it's a big time in the city. and we've got it all covered. we'll be right back. it takes a lot of work... to run this business. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste.

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we are back here in cleveland, with our first read on politics. a lot of people milling about. i'm actually going to snapchat this live hit with mark murray from first read. donald trump is closing the gap in some battle ground states. is he untable overtake hillary clinton and others. joining me, senior political editor, mark murray, joins me via snapchat, as well. i'm snapping, mark, because that's what you're seeing all around here. people are -- hi! so in addition to obviously this being serious political business, it is an opportunity for us to celebrate the great city of cleveland, that's really embracing its role as the host city for the rnc. but the business of it all, these polls out now. what's the headline this morning? >> tamron, at least you're not doing pokemon go.

>> i was earlier! don't you out me, mark murray! >> hey, tamron. the headline from our polls is, there is a lot of good news for donald trump here. he has closed the gap, it's a tight race in ohio, according to our nbc "wall street journal" marist poll. a situation where florida has been reversed. pennsylvania, although we have hillary clinton up nine points, it's closer than it has been. everything is moving in the right direction for donald trump. but it's important to note the context of our poll and all the other battleground and national polls. this has been in the aftermath of that really damaging e-mail story when fbi director, james comey came out and rebuked hillary clinton, clearing her of any type of crime or charges. and bottom line is, if donald trump has made up some ground, but he's either at best even or hasn't been able to overtake her in the polls. >> let's quickly just talk about -- almost out of time. we saw those two polls out of ohio and pennsylvania. where donald trump has zero african-american support at this

time. we just had one of thighs supporters of black preacher from says that this silent majority also exists with african-american voters. is there any indication in the polls that you see? >> tamron, every poll i've seen in all the good ones show donald trump just getting clobbered among african-americans and also latinos. i will put that zero percent a little bit in perspective. president obama ended up winning about 95% of the african-american vote in 2008 and 2012. and when dealing with margins of error that sometimes you might be able to see a 1% or 0%. what was striking in ohio and pennsylvania, you had two polls showing the big goose egg. that's what was striking. >> all right. thank you very much, mark, for the headlines there. coming up, a meeting of the rnc rules committee set to resume in just hours. and what's a last stand for the never trump movement? up next, i'll talk live with a member of that committee, to try and find out what's happening right now behind closed doors. we'll be right back. live from cleveland.

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welcome back. right now the republican convention rules meeting is still in recess. two hours after officials call for an unplanned break, because of all things, a printer maljunction. gop insiders, including chairman reince priebus, and members from donald trump's team, are meeting behind closed doors, we're told to hash out a deal. this, as a small group of delegates want to bring a rule change that would allow delegates to, quote, vote their conscience on the convention floor. joining me, vincent devito. thanks so much for joining us. >> hi, thank you. >> so what can you tell me regarding this report that chairman priebus and some of donald trump's supporters are now talking, trying to work out a deal here that will prevent the never trump movement from -- actually, this would be the end of it. put the stake in it at this point? >> right.

i doubt there's really a movement in the first place, i wouldn't characterize it like that. there are some people that have been floating that thought. but these conventions are all about unity. they're about bringing folks together and there's a lot of momentum here in cleveland right now to do that. there's a lot of positive energy about the candidate, there's a there's a lot of positive energy about the candidate. times when you have these types of discussions, whether while you're in the committee or while it's in recess, it's always about unity and bringing folks together and putting the candidate and the party in the best light possible. and here in cleveland it's very exciting. >> so at this point are you denying that the never trump movement exists at this point? >> no, i think there are people who do want to change the rules, but i don't believe it's as strong a force as folks would otherwise believe. and i have direct comparison to this. four years ago in tampa when i was in a similar position there

was a lot of passion about it. i don't feel any passion about this particular activity. back then i was getting phone calls at the office, well ahead of the convention. i was getting letters to my house. i wasn't getting a bunch of cut and paste e-mails that keep on saying the same thing. how tough is it to do that? and a lot of them aren't even from committee members or even delegates. so there's really no passion behind it. and quite frankly there's really not a big contest because you need contestants. there's only one nominee and it's donald trump so i don't believe that particular activity is a movement. i don't believe it's as strong or as robust. i believe this convention is about unity. people are picking up on that very solidly. there's a lot of excitement here. there's a momentum going forward. it's been a great week for donald trump. it's going to be another terrific week next week. these conventions are about putting the candidate and the party in the best light possible, and that's going to happen. compared to tampa, this feels like a win. this is exciting. and tampa was kind of a low energy event on the rules committee and nobody really covered it but there was some

activity then. now there's a whole bunch of coverage on the rules committee. >> the rules committee is being covered not necessarily because of the excitement level. it is because you have some of the leadership on the committee saying that they potentially had the votes that would unbound the delegates and allow them to vote their conscience and you did not have that level of discourse or dialogue in tampa, right? >> no, i think tampa was actually a lot more interesting with regards to case and controversy on the rules committee than this particular -- >> but there wasn't a movement trying to out mitt romney. that did not exist in the way that it exists -- there was no never trump romney movement at this date leading into the convention that had a powerful voice is my comparison. >> right. well, i don't think there's a movement to oust donald trump either. i think there are some folks who are concerned about the rules and they're articulating their opinions. the movement is with donald trump. he is a grassroots candidate.

's in not a grassroots campaign. and that's important. because he's expanding the electorate. and folks need to know that. in my state of massachusetts we had 20,000 independents register for the primary in massachusetts. ex-expanding the electorate. that's something very exciting for folks to get -- to dive into and carry this unity between the rnc and the campaign forward. >> we'll see what moves forward as far as his decision on who will be his running mate. vincent, thank you so much. and we do have some new developments regarding that conversation. brian williams is in new york city with an exclusive. brian. >> thank you very much. this is a conversation nicole wallace had, tamron, with governor chris christie of new jersey. nicole is actually still at the governor's house in mendham, new jersey. this just broke up. and we wanted to bring you a significant portion of it as quickly as possible because of course chris christie is

spending today waiting for word along with the others who have been vetted as possible vice presidential candidates with donald trump. so without any hesitation we will put this next piece on the air. this piece of tape, this piece of their conversation starts after they had taken a break, and the governor had looked at his blackberry. here's what transpired. >> when you checked your blackberry, you heard any news? >> no. >> so you still do not know? >> no. >> do you think donald trump's made a decision? >> don't know. >> you really don't know? >> i swear i don't know. i don't know. >> in your role as his adviser what would you tell him? >> i wouldn't advise him on this because i'm biased. so i couldn't give him unbiased advice. and that's what i'm supposed to -- >> but you're biased toward helping him win.

>> sure. but i'm also biased toward myself. i'm not going to go in and advise him to pick someone else. i don't think i can give him -- >> i don't believe you. i think if you thought someone else was a better choice you'd tell him to pick them. >> it would be hard. i might. but it would be hard. and -- let's put it this way. i can't give him that advice in an unbiased way right now, so i'm not going to. i'm not going to. because whether i get selected or not, how you conduct yourself in this process will color his view of you after. and what matters most to me is helping him get elected president and if he is to make sure he's a successful president for our country and the world because we need one. those are my priorities. and i think as i get older those tliengz things rise above ambition. and if you're wondering as i said a number of times why i'm so calm, that's why. because this is not the most important thing.

who he picks is not the most important thing. the most important thing is beating hillary clinton and getting this country back on track. and having been a governor now for seven years i know how hard that is. so i don't want to get distracted. >> so you wouldn't miss a beat if you get a call today saying i -- i can't do your impression of him. lu do it for me? >> no. >> chris. >> no, i will not. >> this is so hard. >> listen, no matter what phone call he makes to me today, i will take a deep breath and prepare for tomorrow. >> will you head to the batting cages and like hit a few -- >> i don't have that feeling. >> it won't bother you? >> i'm a competitive person. i'm not going to say it won't bother me if i'm not selected. of course it bothers you a little bit. because if you're a competitive person like i am and you're used to winning like i am, again, you don't like coming in second. ever. but i won't need to go out to the batting cage and hit off the

machine. i'll just go back to work. i've got work this afternoon as governor that i've got to do and i'll go back and do that and not worry about it. if he calls me and tells me that he wants me to do this, then i'll take a deep breath and get ready for that challenge. either way i'll have challenges head of me and i'll be ready to take them on. >> i talked to some of your long-time friends and people who worked on your campaigns and worked for you in the state, and they feel protective on your behalf. can you understand that? >> sure. >> should have your supporters feel like this is owed to you, that no one has taken more lumps for backing him when they did than you. do you feel that way? >> no. no one's owed the vice presidency of the united states. and you know, love the folks who are my friends and my supporters who feel that way. i love them. they're incredibly loyal people. and mary pat and i feel grateful for having them as friends. but no one's owed the vice presidency.

and the guy who wins gets to pick who's going to do it. so i'm not owed anything in that regard at all and i don't view it that way. and i think if you do view it that way then you don't have your eye on the ball. the eye on the ball is win the race first and then be the person who can help the president be the best president he can be. i look at george bush 41 as the greatest example of that. he was a competitor against ronald reagan. he competed hard against him. and never in the eight years did you ever hear him have a negative word to say or disagreement publicly about ronald reagan. and i think when you read ronald reagan's diaries, though, you recognize that george bush 41 played a huge role in telling ronald reagan the truth as he saw it and he helped to make ronald reagan a better president. george bush wasn't owed that position. but he earned it. and then when he got it he didn't worry about me. he worried about the country and the man who picked him and who he was helping to serve.

and that would be my model for vice president, would be george bush 41 because he had enormous influence which i'd want to have. but he had it all behind the scenes, and he was not out there, nor were his people out there aggrandizing him. he's the role model for that. >> so many supporters have said if you're not the vice president, other people are throwing around a.g. but there is a history of governors going in as white house chiefs of staff. is that a role -- that's sort of the function you're performing as a personal counselor. is that anything you've given any thought to? >> i haven't. i really haven't given thought to anything about what's next if he wins. what i've been thinking about is getting the government ready for him if he wins and getting good choices for him on all those positions in front of him. i dent worry about that for myself because i know that whether i'm the vice presidential nominee or whether i'm the chairman of the transition that after he wins on november 8th on november 9th i'm going to be sitting at a table

somewhere across from him and he's going to look at me and say okay, what's next? and i'll be ready to give him some answers and some suggestions. and that's whether you're the vp or whether you're the chairman of the transition. that's what i'm really focused on, that i want -- and i said this to a group of people we were interviewing for the transition yesterday in washington. i said the product is the most important thing. put aside your ego, put aside which office in the white house you want. the product is the most important thing. and that's whether i'm vice president or whether i'm the head of the transition. that's what i'm focused on. so i'm not worried about that. if there's something he wants me to do, he's not shy. he'll ask. and if it's something i want to do i'll do it. and if it's something i don't want to do i'll look at him and say no thanks. >> really? >> yeah. really. absolutely. if he offers me something that i don't want to do, i won't take it. i don't have to. nicole, i'm a