hhis stellar notebooks will last through june. get back to great. this week sharpie twelve-packs just three dollars. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. >> i've never wanted to learn the language of the insiders and i've never been politically correct. it takes far too much time.

truthfully, it takes far too much time and can often make it more difficult to achieve total victory. sometimes in the heat of debate and speaking of a multitude of issues, you don't choose the right words or you say the wrong thing. i have done that. and believe it or not, i regret it. and i do regret it. particularly where it may have caused personal pain. too much is at stake for us to

be consumed with these issues. but one thing i can promise you this, i will always tell you the truth. >> just keep the asterisk up. welcome back to "morning joe" it's friday august 19. with us on set renowned ad man. is this donny or dumb donny. >> today i'm smart donny. i think you can handle it. >> washington anchor from bbc world news america katty kay we have michael steele who is talking to his accountant with lkd. joining us in d.c. editor at "fix" chris cillizz a&m snbc political analyst eugene robinson and chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports" andrea mitchell. gene, what exactly did we see

yesterday in donald trump? >> well, you know, i think we saw him attempting a pivot. do i get the asterisk. >> you deserve it. >> there we go. i think he, he made a better speech than he usually makes. he read it from a teleprompter. we've seen this sort of thing before and it's always best to wait 24 hours or 48 hours until he goes back off the rail. we'll see. a different sounding donald trump and one that i think will, if not gladden the hearts of worried republicans at least calm their night sweats. >> andrea mitchell we went from having surrogates on television talking about barack obama's afghanistan war. on "hardball" last night probably turning in the best

pundit performance of the year. i was surprised by just how effective she was with kind of a weak deck. >> yeah. and she was, first of all, effective on all the points that we've known in the past. she even was able to go and try to clean up what had happened only an hour earlier right here on msnb with kristen welker on mtv daily where another spokesperson katrina pierson had said that hillary clinton has dysphasia. not only suggesting a health problem, which is the whole conspiracy theory about hillary clinton's health. which is a failure to communicate brain damage. she's a spokesperson for donald trump. kristen tried to give her, you know, pushed her on it and pressed her on it and she didn't back down from that. and kellyanne said, no, that's

not where we're going with chris matthews an hour or so later. she said, that's not what we should be focusing on. it was quite a performance and it didn't have performance written all about it. it was natural and organic and i give her a lot of credit, if not all the credit in the world for the speech we saw last night in north carolina. >> no doubt about it. chris cillizza. what did you see last night and do you think we have any reason to see this over the next 80 days? >> if past is prolong, no. how could you, right? but what i saw last night is, joe, what we talked about on the show before, which is the message if he would stick to a message like this is very potent. i'm an outsider. i tell the truth. right. that's a great line as it relates to hillary clinton when you have two-thirds of the american public thinking she's not hawnest and trustworthy. i don't speak, i speak frankly.

all those messages are really good and the idea of him as a populous, while it's a little bit of a hard sell given his background, he has sold himself as a populous to the republican base. the question with him always is, number one, will he continue to do it? does he have the discipline to continue to do it? number two especially at this point has he damaged himself so badly image wise that a change like this is not able to be sold to a skeptical electorate. >> donny, what is the answer to that? >> yes, he has damage. >> too much damage. >> people are not stupid and the reality is, he has said -- >> by the way, you're a guy who said two months ago that donald trump is going to win. you believe he could win. >> several months ago i said, yeah, i believe he could. now, what he has done and what he has left on the table and i go back to the k hahans. i don't care if you are a republican or a democrat, you

saw a man that was incapable of empathizing with people who had lost a son and still was making it about him. with women, suburban women and philadelphia and washington, that resonates. i, we also have to stop giving him presidential points because he can read off of a teleprompter and he's not insulting anybody. and he took a quarter of a step backwards, which he needed to do. we've set the bar and i've said this before so low for this guy. >> we don't set the bar low for him. >> we don't? >> no, the voters do. >> whatever it is. now we get -- >> talking to the camera and you can -- >> that's dumb donny. >> you can talk into the camera right there and set the bar higher. >> that's a fair point. and i, am i the only one that sees that. >> you're creeping me out staring at the camera. it was donald trump's teleprompter speech he went after hillary clinton.

>> going to reject bigotry and i will tell you the bigotry of hillary clinton is amazing. she sees communities of color only as votes and not as human beings worthy of a better future. if african-american voters give donald trump a chance by giving me their vote, the result for them will be amazing. what do you have to lose by trying something new? i will fix it. wat watch. the establishment media doesn't cover what really matters in this country. they will take words of mine out of context and spend a week obsessing over every single syllable.

and then pretend to discover some hidden meaning in what i said. just imagine for a second if the media spent this energy holding the politicians accountable who got innocent americans like kate steinle killed. she was gunned down by an illegal immigrant who had been deported five times. just think about how much different things would be if the media in this country sent their cameras to our border, to our closing factories or to our failing schools. or if the media focused on what dark secrets must be hidden in the 33,000 e-mails that hillary clinton illegally deleted.

>> now, see, katty, that is a great way to do that. instead of saying i hate the media, the media is bad and they're the worst people in the world, say, just imagine if they were focusing on and then list the problems that americans are concerned about. on that instead of obsessing over a misstatement that i made yesterday. >> i mean, this is such a difference from what he said a couple weeks ago when he made the crazy comment, i'm not running against hillary, i'm running against the crooked media. where it was all about a fight between donald trump and the media. this time it's using the media to spotlight the stories that he wants to highlight as part of his campaign. >> you know, as i was listening to that, that is trump himself, the free form guy in a teleprompter. instead of writing a speech that was kind of over here compared to what you normally hear, that was his priority. it was immigration and factories closing and white working class americans and all those issues but arranged in a way that is much more palatable. >> i think that's the critical

effort going forward. i liken the two when you have a raging fire like we do out in the west right now. what do the firemen do? they make a fire to control the fire. that's exactly what this teleprompter serves as if they continue to use it. they can contain the fire in trump instead of going wild all over the place, they can do like what you said. they can list those things that he would go on a rant in a way. >> what happens when he gets attacked in a way that he behaves like a teenage boy and has to respond immediately because -- that's his personality. >> a twitter account. >> have they taken away. >> we keep analyzing it like literally he is a child. well, maybe he won't throw his toys out of the crib. >> you know, the thing is, donny, again, we talk about the low standard that he's held to. we also, though, talk about him talking about truth telling. i won't tell a lie. of course, he's changed his position on 1,000 different

topics. but we have hillary clinton as your opponent vying. bill clinton going out lying and then the president of the united states going out and saying this just two weeks ago. >> we announced these payments in january. many months ago. there wasn't a secret. we announced them. to all of you. josh did a briefing on them. this wasn't some nefarious deal and it wasn't a secret. we were completely open with everybody about it and it's interesting to me how suddenly this became a story, again. that's point number one. point number two, we do not pay ransom for hostages. >> andrea, the president caught in, however you want to say it, a deliberate untruth dissembling, not being straight forward and hawnest and doing what he often does to washington

press corps, being smug about it. with that as a backdrop. with this cash for ransom, with hillary clinton's issues. suddenly americans look at the whole thing and go, they're all liars. let's go for change. >> they are, in some ways, fortunate that this is a congressional recess. they're back home. but republicans you're already hearing from them on the hill. that this coincidence of parallel negotiations, which just happened to come together with a plane an iranian cargo plane and cash. swiss euros and swiss franks and all of this loaded $400 million. look, what john kirby acknowledged for the first time at the state department briefing was that they held the money until the three americans were out of iran. he said, you know, we should have been blamed if we didn't use our leverage because he had concerns that they wouldn't be

released and they would have stopped those americans from leaving. so, we use the money. now, what they're saying is that it was not "ransom" because it was iran's money. we owed them that money as part of the agreement and those arrangements were announced. we were told i was negotiating and covering the negotiations for all those months and months in vienna a year ago, july while they were finalizing it. they did tell us this money was going to be freed up. it had been frozen and the new york fed for all these decades and that that transfer was going to be made. how it was made was revealed two weeks ago by the "wall street journal" and "wall street journal" first reporting that it was held until those americans were released. but they're not going to say it was ransom. >> chris cillizza, it looks like a hostage payment. >> barack obama does say if it walks like a duck, sounds like a

duck, whatever, it's a duck. and however they will d, it is ransom payment. release our prisoners, we'll give you cash. >> my experience in politics is that coincidences don't exist. oh, no, i'm not thinking about running for president, i just happened to fly into iowa. no, you just don't pop over to des moines. so, yes. i mean, i feel like a broken record. i keep coming back to this, which is this is a winnable race on the dynamics for a republican nominee. wouldn't be easy the electoral map is going to be tilted against the nominee no matter how they run. this is a winnable race against a candidate who, as much as democrats hate to hear it. i keep saying it and hear it from twitter. as much as democrats hate to hear it, has fundamental flaws

in terms of perception with the american public. people say, you can't have a candidate who is two-thirds of the public thinking they are neither honest nor truthworthy and say this is an ideal candidate. the problem has been from may 3rd until what is today, august 19th. donald trump has focused on making the campaign about donald trump rather than saying, let's look at who i'm running against and try to frame the race that way. >> chris, you certainly usually can't have a candidate that is untrustworthy. but if it is untrustworthy and stable and dangerous, people will go untrustworthy. >> i'm not so sure about that. >> you say people would go for dangerous? >> i'm just looking at how the landscape is shaping up. looking at the polling now that is starting to coming up. the zobgy race has it double

digits. but there are other polls that are starting to show that. untrustworthy and unstable and dangerous and that's what both campaigns. >> can i interrupt. it's august. can i interrupt? it's august the 19th. it'silatal early to be saying that the cake is already baked. >> i didn't say that. i'm just saying those two -- guys, i'm not saying it is baked. that is the two framings. >> if you look at what donald trump did over the last two days. if it is a massive if he could carry it out over the next 2 1/2 months, then that issue goes away partially. still be there in 30-second ads, but people are looking for an excuse to vote change. >> that's right. >> i have seen it a million times before. you give people an excuse to vote for change and make them think the world is not going to blow up, they vote for change. gene robinson and andrea

mitchell, because while you all are younger than me, you're old enough to remember 1980 and nobody else remembers 1980 because ronald reagan has been given this halo. it was ronald reagan actually in '76 that gerald ford said governor reagan can't start world war iii, president reagan can. it was jimmy carter that constantly convinced the american people that ronald reagan was the fascist gun in the west. this is a guy that couldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons. that famous line, there you go, again. came straight out of jimmy carter saying, if you elected this guy, he could start a world war iii. and that remains the dynamic until the candidate convinces the american people they're not crazy. >> you know, joe, i met ronald reagan and donald trump is no ronald reagan. >> you know, the interesting thing is, the interesting thing

is, gene, ronald reagan wasn't ronald reagan until he was ronald reagan. i can tell you, he wasn't ronald reagan until everybody looked up and saw all the states blue because they were still blue if you were a republican. i remember frank reynolds asking, what the hell is going on out there. >> look, i remember 1980. and i remember that dynamic. and you certainly have historical point about how that election worked. i'm just saying, ronald reagan was, in fact, the two-term governor of california who had, who had a natural credibility, which jimmy carter tried and for a while successfully to shake. to undermine. but he was a much more substantial political figure than dawned trump. he was different. >> andrea, just i don't want to confuse our viewers. i'm not saying donald trump is ronald reagan. i am saying on this question of

suitability, these same questions that are being asked about donald trump were being asked about ronald reagan through the fall of the 1980 campaign. and it's in print. >> absolutely right. through the debates. we lived through that. i'm old enough to be out there covering it. the fact is, though, joe, as gene just pointed out, this was a two-term governor of the eighth largest economy, california. he had economic principles. he veered from them when he felt it was necessary once it was elected to negotiate to compromise because he believed in legislating and getting things done and getting 80%. you know it very well. the fact is he had corps principles. i don't think what people have seen with donald trump are corps principles that add up to a coherent hole aside from the others that katty pointed out earlier. did not amount to a real apology last night. it was a teleprompter regret. and it's the first step. but he has not yet said this

shouldn't have been said or this shouldn't have been said. the hole hasn't yet added a. i'm agreeing with you, there is still a lot of time. >> andrea, can i ask you about the e-mail story in "new york times" reporting that the clinton camp is using the excuse, again, that it was the power had set up his own e-mail server and he may have suggested it to her. what's behind that? >> it's an excuse she used almost exactly a year ago september 4th when i sat down to talk to her about the e-mail controversy. she said, other secretaries have done it. previous secretaries. colin poweoin powell did it anda dinner that colin powell had said to her verbally. i understand he doesn't recall that dinner conversation but writing her a memo saying he used his aol account.

there are a lot of differences and the powell office may be clearing that up. i was checking late last night and overnight and they are going to try to explain that there were differences. yes, he wrote her a memo saying he used his aol account for unclassified e-mail to spark better communication internally because there was no comparable system in 2001 when he took office inside the state department. but for classified information he used only the desktop in his seventh floor office in that secure space on the seventh floor of the state department and pushed very hard, i was covering the state department then and pushed very hard to try to get better computers. i mean, it was laughable. there was no communication system. so, he felt that using his private e-mail unclassified daily messages to aides would improve the vastly improve the communication internally. but never anything that was classified. and that that is the difference

and never told her to do anything about a private server and never mentioned a server and never conceived of a server and there is obvious differences. >> the "washington post" in giving bill clinton three pinoekios for showing that the colin powell just shows this is business as usual said that was one of the more pathetic excuses that they used. andrea, thank you for being with us. gene, stay with us, if you can. as donald trump heads to baton rouge today, should the president cut his vacation short and go, as well? a tough op-ed in the state's biggest paper calls an end of focus on louisiana's needs. later state department spokesman john kirby joins us to talk about the timing of that cash payment to iran. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ isaac hou has mastered gravity defying moves to amaze his audience.

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trump said yesterday his prayers are with those affected by the flooding. >> when one state hurts, we all hurt. and we must all work together to lift each other up. i hope everyone in louisiana knows that our country is praying for them and standing with them to help them in these difficult hours. they are very, very difficult. thank you. >> president obama, meanwhile, faces criticism for remaining on vacation in the wake of louisiana's flooding. he's been seen playing golf in martha's vineyard. "the advocate" called him out in an editorial published vacation or not, hurting louisiana needs

you now, president obama. last night governor defended the president's absence. >> i will tell you, it is a major ordeal. they free up the interstate for him. we have to take hundreds of local first responders, police frs officers and provide security for that type of visit. i would just assume have those people engaged in the response rather than trying to secure the president. so i've asked him to wait, if he would, another couple of weeks. but he's certainly welcome to visit any time he wants to. >> the president is not going down immediately but donald trump on his way there. coming up, america's debt is now racing past $19 trillion. that's trillion. it has 12 zeros. and according to "fortune" magazine both hillary clinton and donald trump are delusional about america's finances. and state department spokesman john kirby joins us to explain the difference between a ransom and leverage.

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>> we announced these payments in january. many months ago. there wasn't a secret. we announced them. to all of you. josh did a briefing on them. this wasn't some nefarious deal

and it wasn't a secret. we were completely open with everybody about it and it's interesting to me how suddenly this became a story, again. that's point number one. point number two. we do not pay ransom for hostages. >> i think we're playing that clip about as much as we played the reset asterisk. it's painful every time you look at it. that was president obama talking earlier this month about negotiations with iran and yesterday the state department acknowledged the $400 million that is paid to settle dispute was actually timed to leverage the release of american prisoners. with us now, assistant secretary for public affairs at the state department john kirby. also here with us in the studio director of the earth institute at columbia university. economist general sax. you have to stop coming on days like this. we always have such pleasant conversations, but they chum up

the watters and then they throw you in on this. do i apologize at the beginning of this conversation or at the end? >> joe, these are the only days you invite me on. >> fair enough. okay. come on, this was a quid pro quo, admiral. it was clearly cash for hostages, was it not? >> well, look, joe, let me just walk through a couple of things here. first of all, this was iran's money. it was money they were going to get back anyway and when you negotiated with the hague, this interest payment that was much more advantageous to the american taxpayers. to a degree there was a quid pro quo, we got a much more advantageous schedule. >> why didn't the president just say that several weeks ago instead of telling the truth to the american people and being very dismissive of the washington press corps? >> i can't speak for everything said previous to today but the

president was very open about this at the time back in january. the second thing going on here was that there was a team working to get our american citizens back. that was a separate track. it is true that with a nuclear deal done, these two tracks were kind of converging and coming together and we took full advantage of that and we made no appaologies for that. full momentum in what turned out to be a 24-hour period to try to get it all done together. look, there isn't a lot of trust with iran. foolish and prudent in our view to go ahead and settle the cash payment of the principle when we didn't have our americans back. they were already at that time and if you go back and look at the press coverage, joe, they were playing games with us. they were playing games whether she was going to be able to get on that plane or not. we were very worried that in the final hours here, they were going to somehow pull a fast one. so, i think we did use it as leverage and we make no apologies about that because we got our american sittoncitizens

safely. >> why do you want to do a deal with a country that would do that? >> right. what i would like to know and i'm not a press spokesman for the state department, but, john, there was an obvious opportunity here. come out right at the beginning and say to the american public, of course. we are going to use every leverage we can. we happen to have this money. it's iranian money. we're not going to give it out until the prisoners are back. everyone would have sympathized with that. >> you can always go back and monday morning quarterback. the pr approach to this and how we talked about it at the time. again, we were very open and honest and forthright they were going to get this payment and we were trying to get our americans back and we were honest about the fact that it came together at the end of the nuclear deal. we didn't get into the exact tick talk of all the mechanics and how every step was played out. again, we could argue whether

that was wise or not. the bottom line is we got these people back and we got them back safely. >> well, you know, i'm a big supporter of the iran deal, but i'm not sure it was a good idea to mix the return of these prisoners with the iran deal because it leads to this kind of mess. now, there's clear precedent whether this is ransom or leverage, but mixing these two things together and making this payment in this way is not a good idea. the iran deal is a very good idea in my view but putting them together has made a mess. >> not a mix of the iran deal and getting them back. open channels of communication with iran that we didn't have before. no mixing between the nuclear deal and getting our americans back. >> gene robinson. i feel like i need to ask the sort of question a defense attorney would ask at this point. john, is it not true that at the time the iran deal was

negotiated, there was a lot of criticism, including on this show from some people of the deal because -- >> objection. counsel, you can't lead your own witness. >> because it did not get our americans released. is that not true? >> try again. >> obviously, yeah, some people that did want that linked. and we deliberately delinked that. we are going to get the nuclear deal done on the face of it because on the face of it is a good thing for the region and the world and that it would be a mistake to connect that to the release of our americans, which is why there was no connection between those two. we had a separate effort going for many, many months. separate from the nuclear deal and certainly separate from the hate tribunal to get the americans back and that team was working very diligently.

in those discussions no where was there a discussion about paying ransom to get them back. >> i know you've seen pages of "wall street journal" and "financial times" this morning and the young boy ravaged by the war fare that is going on in syria now for five years. some estimates up to 500,000 deaths there. so many more children were not as lucky as this child even. what in the world is the united states and the rest of the international community doing to end the suffering in syria? >> well, we're working very hard, joe. i think you know and we talked about this many, many times. two efforts in syria, one is against dash and there is a military component to that. the united states is leading the 66 now member coalition to get after that group inside syria. also in iraq. and number two, a very serious diplomatic effort going on that is being led by secretary kerry and working very closely with russian foreign minister.

right now there are teams. u.s. and russian teams that are discussing proposals in place trying to get the technicalities in place that could be nationwide and enduring. >> admiral, with all do respect, this is the handwork of the russians and assad. so, how can we hope for the good dpras graces of vladimir putin to stop this killing and maiming? >> this isn't about hope, though, joe. putting variable, enforceable measures to get that observed. you're absolutely right. the assad regime is the one to blame on this and they had been assisted in their efforts by russian military activity, including in the last several days in and around aleppo. when the secretary talked about the proposals in moscow a couple weeks ago, they can only work if they're implemented in good faith. we have seen when the russians have intended to do it and have been proven willing to do it

where their influence on assad has proven to work. when we announce hostilities for almost a period of a couple of months, joe, a radical reduction in the violence in syria. less reduction in the violence and that didn't hold. and didn't hold because the russians either weren't willing or able to continue to pressure assad. so, we need them to use the influence they can have and can use when they want to to try to bring this violence to a close. that little boy, 5 years old which means for every day of his life, that little boy has known nothing but war and death and destruction and poverty and that just has to stop. >> katty? >> the reason we are dependent on russian good will to allow a two-day cease-fire in aleppo, the russians are calling the shots. i don't doubt the effort that the secretary has put in. he's traveled backwards and forwards to geneva nonstop. they failed to get results on syria. that's why we're in the position

we're in right now. >> we're in the position we're in right now because assad is a brutal dictator who is killing his own people. that's why we are where we are. look, i've heard the calls. you could just go in militarily and try to solve this and america could solve all the problems and we learned over the last 16 years that military intervention doesn't always do that. can you have tactical effects on the ground? absolutesly. but only if you're willing to stay there. nobody is asking the question, what then if you intervene more aggressively and militarily, what then? so, the president has said, the secretary supports this, too, that there is not going to be a military solution there, only be a political one that is sustainable because it's put in place by the syrian people and that's what we're focused on. >> admiral john kirby, thank you so much for being with us. >> good to be with you guys. >> always greatly appreciated. so, jeffrey, i know you've been very critical for five years of the united states. working quietly to try to destabilize the assad regime and

you would suggest that that strategy has ultimately led to this. so, here we are, though, and here we have been for five years. what do we do to stop this? >> five years ago we discussed on the show when the president of the united states launched the secret war to overthrow assad assign the cia to work with saudi arabia and turkey to overthrow assad. we escalated a war. we don't have the truth told. the american people killed, this newspaper "new york times" refuses to cover the truth in the most basic way about what the united states is doing. when you say or others say the u.s. isn't doing its job, it's just not doing it publicly. we have been pumping in weapons and we have been funded by saudi arabia, cia working together to keep this war going. this little boy has known only war because the united states five years ago launched a war that we have not ended. and it's not the russians, it's

so easy to sit in america and say it's the russian fault. where did it start? it start would hillary clinton and president obama saying assad must go. >> jeffrey, you've said that. >> it's true. >> that's why i preface my question. my question is, so, we find ourselves here. it is the russians dropping bombs and the syrian government dropping bombs and it is isis spreading terror. you have spent your life trying to alleviate suffering. trying to alleviate poverty. what do we do now as an international to stop the killing? we're at 500,000. how do we stop it from getting to 600,000. >> dropping bombs because the u.s. and saudi arabia and turkey have been fighting. they are fighting a rebellion that we are funding and arming. we should stop funding and arming a rebellion against a government. we should go to the u.n., work together with russia to fight isis because that's a real

enemy. and overthrowing other governments, whether it's khaddifi or saddam hussein or assad is just been disaster for the american people. over and over again. so, the reason the russians -- >> defeat isis, keep assad in place. >> i don't want to keep him in place. i just don't want to have a war to overthrow him. that's the difference. i'm not for assad, i'm against u.s.-led wars to overthrow other countries, especially when they're secret because the american people have never been told what we're really doing in syria to this day. >> dr. jeffrey sax, i'm told we have to leave it there because we're out of time. they actually told me we were out of time three minutes ago. >> i appreciate it. >> i wanted to give you the floor because you have been talking about this. you have, literally, for five years. we'll be right back. i asked my dentist if an electric toothbrush was

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learn more at cancercenter.com/caremanager appointments available now. i'm hillary clinton, and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes. charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself, do i want a person of that temperament controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs] still ahead a 3,000 mile bus

journey. we'll talk to that. also, jeffrey sykes talking about the unsustainable national debt and how hillary clinton and donald trump will just make matters worse. you wouldn't believe what's in this kiester. a farmer's market. a fire truck. even a marching band. and if i can get comfortable talking about this kiester,

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so like will ferrell you have the fluz action tenews act.

what did he do? >> he blew a conch. >> a conch. >> okay. and earlier this week i basically did the same thing by tweeting this about the national debt. america's debt is racing towards $19.5 trillion and neither clinton or trump is a plan to save our children. jeffrey heard it and came running. >> i traugt ybrought you papers documents. >> the debt continues to rise and nobody does anything about it. donald trump and hillary clinton both bragging they aren't doing anything to arrest the growth of this national death. >> what congressional budget office has shown is not only had we doubled the debt as a share

of national income between 2008 and now but what seemed to be leveling off is now starting another big increase. we are at about 75% of our national income. in a decade from now we'll be about 86%. long-term projections are utter disasters. trump, there's no plan at all. it is just to get the revenue. it is so absurd. >> and hillary is only 250 billion. >> there's a big distinction. it is i will gut the taxes and that's the end of the story. her idea is she is going increase spending and not going to do anything about the underlying deficit. i don't think she will get away with that also. you can't have plans and not pay attention to what's going on beneath it. >> and the thing is it's all

predictable. katty people predicted it was going to go down and go back up. we know where it is going and we aren't taking care of the issues. >> back in 2012 the debt was the biggest issue. right now it's low interest rates and america thinks it can do it forever and ever with 0% swres rates. >> we have so called mandatory spending. we are allergic to taxes. how much are you going to cut them versus how much are you going to cut them? we have squeezed almost everything.

there is almost nothing left to slash. the underlying spending trends -- >> but how do you reduce 19 trillion? a 19 trillion debt, do you convert it to cash? what's the result? >> the main idea would be at a minimum you want to stabilize the debt to the national income. to do that you have to keep the deficit near to 0 and not at 4%. >> and president obama paint add big picture but never had the revenue to do it. they want to cut the revenues even more and widen it even more. there is no honest discussion

about the increasing relative detonational income. >> and you can look at medicare, medicaid, social security -- >> yeah. >> you look at the national defense, that's where the money is. that's where the explosion is. there is no more cutting domestic -- i mean you can cut a little bit here and there but anybody that says they are going to take care of the national debt, they are lying to you. it's not going to have an impact! tha thank you. he heard the conch. eugene robinson, though you ask leading questions we love having you and we will have you back. a new post called could things get worse to the gop.

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some times in the heat of debate you don't choose the right words or you don't say the right thing. i have done that.

believe it or not, i regret it. >> good morning. with us onset the man that has been koe hocohosting, donnie. mark halperin said you were doing an incredible job. it's like for some reason they got to smart donnie. we always get the dumb donnie. you want to reverse that for us? >> you know, there are a lot of surprise winners and i'm always producing whatever is needed given. >> can you please be quiet? >> sure. [ laughter ] >> and we have katty kay and we

have kasie hunt. wow. wow. you have the reset button ready? ready. where is the asterisk? okay. you may be using that a lot today. it was a speech like nobody else. actually doing a pretty extraordinary job. i have known kellyanne. i have never seen her do as well as she did last night. in the toughest as circumstances, as far as handling political incoming, it was a tour de force.

>> yeah. it will make the clinton campaign and wake up and say this race is not over yet. lots of asterisks ready. donald trump stated he doesn't want to pivot. he followed scripted remarks. he didn't exactly say he was sorry but he did come as close as he ever has to showing remorse. >> i never wanted to learn the language of the insiders and i've never been politically correct. it takes far too much time. truthfully it takes far too much time and can often make it more difficult to achieve total victory. some times in the heat of debate and speaking on a multitude of issues you don't choose the

right words or you say the wrong thing. i have done that. >> and believe it or not, i regret it. and i do regret it particularly where it may have caused personal pain. too much is at stake for us to be consumed with these issues, but one thing i can promise you this, i will always tell you the truth. while some times i can be too honest, hillary clinton is the exact opposite. she never tells the truth.

one lie after another and getting worse with each passing day. tell me, has hillary ever apologized for lying about her illegal e-mail server and deleting 33,000 e-mails? we are going to reject bigotry and the bigotry of hillary clinton is amazing. she sees communities of color only as votes and not as human beings worthy of a better future. if african american voters give donald trump a chance by giving me their vote the result for them will be amazing.

what do you have to lose by trying something new? i will fix it. watch. >> this is kellyanne. you know, when she came onto the campaign i remember saying to folks, now for something completely different. >> how dramatically different. her imprint is immediate. i think the campaign now is going to go forward. if they continue to do this it puts pressure were the political system to come around to the notion this guy is going to do this thing all the way to november and to the democrats to be prepared and respond accordingly. if he continues with this approach, with this messaging, this is getting back on that track. it is bringing it into central

focus. >> what he could do if he did this for 80 straight days, i could do a lot of things -- and he may be able to do it, we'll see -- is he gets himself out of the way and he makes his campaign about hillary. he has a very good chance to for winning. the question is, donnie. -- and i'm serious. if grow run a restaurant and you are known for having the biggest rats, how long does it take you to get your reputation back? people say maybe i could go in there without being consumed by rats. how long does he have to do this

before people say okay. this is another reset button. >> the consumer is not a consumer. it is your husband or wife or child and the voter is not just a voter. it's a husband -- people are not stupid. okay? >> right. >> people are not stupid. it is not like he said one thing in the heat of the moment. we have seen what's inside of him. people are not idiots. somebody doesn't get to get elected president in a do over because they brought in a smart consultant. >> let's me push back just a second here. there are a lot of people here that stay focused on campaigns all along, but for most of us, especially the swing voters, it doesn't begin until the day after labor day. >> there is one problem, the

nine deadly sins, they are not going away. >> they still come up in 30 second commercials. >> one thing you said is the most critical thing, up until this point it has been all about donald trump. clinton people will not let that stop. it is not going away how he made fun of a disabled journalist. that is here. that is baked in. >> and you are certainly covering the clintons now. the problem for the clintons is hillary clinton's u.n. press conference is not going away. hillary clinton's testimony on benghazi, what does it matter, is not going away. bill clinton lying about the e-mails the other night, they have that forever. they have lying about jim comey. they have that clip forever and

they keep doing it. again, it is sort of a stand off. it is sort of who can disqualify the other. donald trump made it all about himself. if trump gets out of the way there may be enough ammunition to make this race close again. >> he did he disqualify? he said donald trump is right about that guy. >> right. >> and donald trump last night saying i will always tell you the truth, that is the exact argument that republicans have been trying to get him to make for six months as he takes that to hillary clinton. the fact is that voters are inclined to not trust hillary clinton. >> what is so interesting is he says i will always tell you the truth and you look at his video clips and yesterday he says i want to bomb syria and then the next day, i think i'm going to move to syria. the next day, i have a lot of

friend s in syria. what's important for the smart guys like you, donnie -- how did you like that? you're a smart guy. -- is people discount him. they have known him outside of politics. >> that's why the childrlinton campaign thinks he is so dangerous. >> hillary clinton gets nothing. >> i want to talk about that. >> gets none. >> and that truth thing will be the beginning of a lot of ads. i will always tell you the truth and they will put all of the things he has said. what is the truth? there is a way to flip that immediately. >> and if part of donald trump's selling pitch is i am who i am, i tell it straight abdomen then he goes on teleprofmpter.

there is a risk for him here. that's downside. i'm also, asterisk, not convinced he can sustain this. if you are going to apologize you apologize for something specific. >> i think it's a 12-step process. >> we are in step one. >> does he even make it to step two? >> fake it till you make it. anybody that knows donald know that is donald last flight was closer to the donald trump that we have all known for decades than the character he is playing. make no mistake of it, make no mistake of it, this loud

screaming, racially insensitive, at times race baiting buffoon, that is donald trump playing a role unless the donald trump we have known for 20 years is not the donald trump -- >> it is also the mexicans being rapists and -- those are his statements. he owns them. >> right. that's what i was saying about if guy that gets behind the microphone. it is an interesting pivot because as he goes to teleprompter he is becoming the donald everybody else has known for decades, which is really bizar bizarre, that he has to go to teleprompter to be more himself. the list of offenses are so long. the mexicans, muslims, megan

kelly, have you in 20 years of knowing donald trump behind closed doors -- and i'm not trying for you to vouch for his character. i'm just asking. have you heard him say anything in private even close to being racially insensitive? >> never. and let me tell you about our relationship. our kids go to the same school. i always found him to be charming, smart, generous of spirit. having said that, this man i have seen up here is repulsive to me. i can't go okay. that's the real donald. i also want to say despite the pivot -- >> let's stay focused here. i'm not trying to -- >> thank you.

>> yes, we know you and i are both offended by the donald publicly and it's very hard to separate out the personal. i'm just talking about the donald trump going into the teleprompter seeming to be more gracious is the donald trump we have known off stage. >> how much do we know about him? i am telling you my interactions with him. what frightens me is -- by the way, is there any part of you that could ever get up and do the hate mongering that he has done? oops, he just had a brain pafar? >> no. what i'm trying to tell people that don't know donald behind the scenes is it would be hard if the real donald trump was a screaming racist for 70 years. >> but who is the real donald

trump? he is not my best buddy. >> but you talked to people that have known him, that maybe didn't do deals with him but have known him in his personal interactions. again, i can't find anybody that has known donald over 70 year rs a years and said i remember when he said this racist thing about blacks or racist thing about jews. it's not just this -- >> it's a challenge for the campaign. obviously most voters don't have the chance. the challenge is can they pitch this new look donald trump in a way that seems authentic and consistent and reliable? still ahead, our conversation with john kirby. first here is bill with a check ton forecast as floods and fire still impact parts of the

country. >> now we are in the clean-up stages. water has gone down and everyone going into their homes and taking it out and putting it on the sidewalks. at least this is southern areas of louisiana. water is try to go make its way out to the gulf. a lot of back water ended up getting high too. let's take you to the bluecut fire. only 4% containment. now it is up to 22% containment. some that were evacuated were able to go back into their homes. let's get into your weekend forecast. this is through madison university. these thunderstorms are weakening finally at this hour. as we go through the weekend forecast the thing to watch is this cool front. we are heading towards the right time of the season in areas of

the midwest especially. we'll watch cool nights and even for highs, 70s in chicago over the weekend. the forecast for the weekend. we'll be watching this cold front. chicago, st. louis on saturday. east coast is pretty much dry. on sunday that cold front makes it to the east coast. afternoon thunderstorms into the evening. new york city, albany and d.c. and a few thunderstorms should not cause much in the way of additional flooding. temperatures in the west will be warmer than even dallas in the middle of the summer. salt lake city at 94. hot, breezy conditions all weekend long. it's turning out to be a pretty nice friday morning. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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for the first time -- >> i think we need an asterisk. >> we do. it is a pivot home. the cash paid to iran was used as leverage and timed to the release of four american prisoners. until yesterday the administration maintained the timing was coincidental with a timing for a legal dispute between the two countries. here is the president speaking two weeks ago. >> we announced these payments in january, many months ago. there wasn't a secret. we announced them to all of you. josh did a briefing on them.

this wasn't some deal and it wasn't a secret. we were completely open with everybody about it and it is interesting to me how this became a story again. that's point number one. point number two, we do not pay r ransom for hostages. >> he is desemiabling and arrogant at the same time saying how dare you. it was so condescending to the media while not telling the truth. >> being economical with the truth. >> is that -- >> yeah. >> yeah. >> earlier this month state department tweeted the reports of a link between the prisoner release and payment to iran are

completely false but then came yesterday. >> the payment was contingent on their release, right? >> what i'm saying is that because we had concerns that iran may renig on the prisoner release giving delays as well as mutual mistrusts we of course, naturally, sought to retain maximum love reverage. >> then there's a connection between the two events, right? >> the events came together simultaneously. if you already have concerns about the end gams it would have been foolish for us not to maintain maximum leverage. >> you're saying you wouldn't

give them the 400 million in cash until the prisoners are released, correct? >> that's correct. >> and earlier he joined us for an interview. okay. it was clearly cash for hostages, was it not? >> look, joe, look met walk through a couple of things. first of all, it was iran's money. it was money they were going to get back any way. this interest payment that was much more add venn -- add venn day jous interest payment. >> why didn't he just say that instead of being very dismissive of the washington press corp.? >> i can't speak to everything that was said previous to today but the president was very open about this back in january. the second thing going on here

is there was a team working to get our american citizens back. that was a separate track. it's true with a nuclear deal done these two were kind of coming together. we took full advantage of that. we took full advantage of that momentum to try to get it done together. look, there isn't a lot of trust with iran. it would have been foolish to go ahead and settle the cash payment of the principal when we didn't have our americans back. they were already at that time playing games with us. they were playing games on whether or not they had jason's wife or whether she would be able to get on that plane or not. we were worried they were going to some how pull a fast one. we did use it as leverage. now we have our american citizens back safely. >> thank you so much. coming up on "morning joe," is the showman giving up show

business? donald trump settles down with a tele prompter and stays on mess achlkt we' mess achl message? we'll talk about that next. great show. here you go. now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless. easy to use chase technology, for whatever you're trying to master. isaac, are you ready? yeah. chase. so you can. sorry, captain obvious. don't be. i've got the hotels.com app, which makes it simple to book a room for $500. or $25, but it won't be here. you can stay with me. thanks. i've already lost enough today.

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mexico is where i'm from tlchlt is no way hillary is getting my vote. trump may have some crazy to him but at least he loves america.

he knows how the run business. >> i will vote for donald trump because i he is a straightforward person. he would give us no joke. we need a straightforward leader that will get involved and get stuff done and not be afraid to get his stuff done. >> he may be a little crazy, but hey. she said everybody is a little crazy, donnie. >> this show proves that. >> to quote billy joel, he may be right. you may be crazy but it may be what you're looking for.

they sought to learn about voters and what they care about. joining us is josh king who ork straited, donnie is still here. kasie hunt is here with us as well. it doesn't really take four or five states before you start seeing a real change in attitudes, does it? >> yeah. it is really an effort for scott and i that we set off about two and a half weeks ago. we got on a greyhound bus and took it to los angeles. we went through 11 states, 3,041 miles and talked to people about how their lives were -- >> what was the common thread

through the conversation sconve? >> the most common thing is the lesser of two levels. one say i will vote for trump as a vote against clinton but i will say the hopeful thing in all of this is that after interviewing over 10 0 people dd still believe that it was important to vote as an american citizen. >> we saw the convention as 68% think this country is going in the wrong direction. did you get a sense from the 100 people we are going in the wrong direction? >> we certainly heard that. jason carpenter, we just saw him on the televisionment . he is 34 from kentucky, lacks a college education from an economically depressed state.

he is voting for trump. the interesting reason was why. he used to be addicted to heroin for seven years. he watched his home state get taken over by that. that's why he is voting for trump. riding a bus for that much time really allowed us to get to this level of complexity that polls don't show us. >> and social media doesn't show that. >> no. the driver was on top of the latest news. he says it looks like trump is apologizing and doing the right thing. this occurred to me as someone what who had naturally been swayed by the news and suddenly he had changed.

what is interesting is how he tuned in with people. from this table outward it has been six weeks of held for donald trump. you think based on those conversations things could change quickly. >> we saw a big range of how people were. some people didn't even know the nominees. every time we thought people would vote one way they surprised us. >> and one thing that sfrtruck about this election is they also feel powerless to actually change something. did you find that on this trip? >> yeah. many tend to be poor or lower

class. -- >> do they feel like their votes count? >> a lot of them do not. majority of people, this was very unscientific survey. a majority of people said they were going to vote. plenty of people feel ignored by society or chosen to ignore society themselves. they don't feel like it would matter. i would look at a lot of voters and say they should be voting for us. they are struggling. what has the democratic party done wrong over the last 30 years? we ignored the voices of working-class americans for too long. what do they do to correct that? >> well, i think it's been a long journey for every american

but if you look at the last six elections, americans have won two of them. >> yeah, but i'm talking about reliable democratic voters. >> i think the appeal to them has been difficult when over the last two elections an african american has lead the ticket he is one without making that direct appeal. what you see is an easy appeal to that part of the electorate that has given a floor for the republican candidate. i think if you look at what's happening i'm reminded of what we did? 1992 and 1996, ten bus tours through the cities that have allowed the candidates to get out and talk to these people

directly. this is what they have seemed to tried to have done do. >> he got these voters. >> he did that then bill clinton went to washington and democratic party embraced free trade and wall street. i think these two issues are part of it. michael steele. i'm wondering what you think about whether or not to republican party can hang on. do you think it's just a moment to what we were related to? what do republicans need to do? >> what's going on out in the country, the reality of the tale of two countries.

one said it will be all good. we'll all hold hands and walk down the road together and another one about how hard it is out here right now. i think the republican message may open up a new door. it may move it closer to where america is right now and that's one of the saving opportunities for the gop to get in that space occupied by america right now. >> and i road on the bus with clinton. just watching him connect with people was very different. it was a southern gentleman. >> and it's just so personal. at the end of the day it's personal. can you connect with certain segments or voters or can you not? thank you, josh.

hope you'll come back. >> thank you. and coming up -- and actually it is up right now on bloomberg politics. the justice announces causing industry stocks to plunge. we'll go live to the new york stock exchange for that when "morning joe" returns.

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tell us about the private prisons. >> yeah. we'll be watching to see how they open. the justice department announced it is stopping the about a ten-year-old experiment of hiring private prisons to help manage the prison population in this country. there are two that trade on wall

street, companies like corrections corp. of america. stocks got hit 35 to 40%. corrections did come out after the close yesterday and said it only represents about 7% of their business. the important thing is they are still have the state contracts to run the private prison. the biggest client of the corrections corporation of america is california, the state there and the prisons that they operate. clearly this is a blow to their business but potentially not a death now also the doj, it means the price has run up 20% off the low we hit in early august.

there is rumors there is another big meeting and they might take steps to limit production. rumors swirling. in terms of gas prices they are staying steady around $2.14. they could move higher if we see some sort of announcement out of algeria next month. >> thank you so much. have a great weekend. coming up, is obamacare in crisis? we'll talk about that and zika. a big announcement coming out of florida most likely and also flaca, synthetic drugs. dr. dave is in next.

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and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes. charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself, do i want a person of that temperament controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs] a farmer's market.ve what's in this kiester.e to say no. a fire truck. even a marching band. and if i can get comfortable talking about this kiester, then you can get comfortable using preparation h. for any sort of discomfort in yours. preparation h. get comfortable with it.

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hey, with us now, dr. dave campbell. want to talk about obamacare. looks like it is in trouble again. want to talk about flaca again which just in your community caused a teenager with no bad background to kill a couple and chew one of their faces off. a huge decision to make about miami. >> yeah, the entire city will be covered with the type of mosquit mosquitos. >> this all started --

>> yeah, women who are pregnant started three weeks ago. >> isn't it about even people thinking about getting pregnant for the next year. >> yeah, or the spouse that wants to fly back. like in any of these viruses it can cause auto immune disorders. it can also effect the brains in kids and adults. we don't know the end of this story yet. it is an expanding problem. >> you know, what will devastate us. >> and tourism is devastating. we were talking about how this happens in hot weather climates. since that time we learned you can transmit it through sexual relations. suddenly it can happen in copen

hagu hagen as much. >> we said you should go to spring break in canada. no longer safe. sit a global problem. the virus is transmitted globally. >> i can't help but think back to the conversation we had at the very beginning when we first heard the word zika. there were voices saying we should get in front of this. now we seem to be behind the eight ball. what pressure is there as well as the political class and government to respond to this thing? >> well, in the cdc's benefit, they have been on this in a big way. it is so rapidly expensivansive. miami is hot, admittedly, but it wasn't the center of this.

it jumped to miami as you would expect. >> and from there it can spread across the country. let's talk about this synthetic drug crisis. we remember what happened in the early 1990s with the crack epidemic. now we have drugs like flaca who take synthetic drugs and do unspeakable things. it is starting in florida and rapidly expanding. >> it is the synthetic psycho actives like this kid four days ago that went crazy. two years ago we had a similar thing in miami. you have synthetic designer drugs. >> like ecstasy? >> similar, more like lsd but much more potent then you have synthetic open oids. >> because they lace the heroin

with this and it's 100 times more powerful? >> 100 times more powerful than morphine, many times more powerful than heroin. >> is it cheaper or easier to get? >> heroin is cheap to get and it is being laced with synthetics. >> cheap? >> exceedingly cheap. flaca 5 bucks. heroin laced with a dose you don't know, 5, 10, 20 bucks. >> and you don't know what the dosage is. and let's go to the final topic, obamacare, aetna moving away from it. there are five major insurers. three of the five have said no mas. >> they created a system where the insurance companies are forced to price their product based on rules that are article

official to the industry. an insurance company has to -- >> artificial to the market, right? >> to the market. they have to charge as if there are no preexisting issues and pay irrespective of that. they have created an artificial system and we are seeing it fold like a house of cards. >> so 20-year-olds have to overpay and 60-year-olds underpay. >> you can only charge three times more for the older person than the younger person. >> give obamacare a grade. >> i give it a d. it is getting worse abdomen worand worse. it leaves two out of five that probably will fold. >> probably will. >> and for people -- i mean

aetna was upset on something federal regulators did. didn't aetna lose $200 million? >> they will lose on the obamacare exchanges. >> 200 million. >> yes. >> don't call him dr. dave. you don't want someone respo responding. hi. i'm dr. dave. okay. stephanie picks up the coverage. >> thanks. have a great weekend. good morning. i'm stephanie. we have breaking news. back in the u.s.a. two of the american swimmers kept that brazil still in the country, one more left behind, what he has to do to get out and details on what really happened that night. police saying their story of a robbery is a