strickland has been down the whole time. got to ask when democrats recruited him did they think the guy who was able to represent appalachia could run that same type of campaign in 2016? the answer is no and he is having to run as somebody he is not comfortable being. perhaps that's reflected in this race. we will see. november is still two months away. "with all due respect" starts ten seconds late. i'm donny deutch. >> i'm john heilemann. good luck beating this. >> rick perry ready to show off his texas two-step. >> texas two-step. >> texas two-step. >> texas two-step. ♪

on the dance floor tonight, donald trump's immigration solo. two strategists tango. do donny and i show off our jaz hands. with less than a month before trump and clinton face off in their first debate, the two candidates have started debate prep. "washington post" ran a story about their polar opposite approaches to the task and today, there was a juicy report about how clinton's camp is methodically tapping the advice of psychologists and donald trump's ghost writer to find ways to get under his skin onstage. today as clinton folks try to raise the expectations, joel beninson went on nbc and described the difficulty of

predicting the moves muof an unpredictable opponent. meanwhile, trump's team apparently had laura ingraham on hand to stand in as hillary clinton during one prep session though they may or may not have used her for that purpose but trump opted for a more straightforward discussion of debate topics as he expresses concern about overpreparing for the big event. also present during another debate meeting this weekend, ousted fox news ceo roger ailes who according to "new york" magazine's gabe sherman showed up with a black eye. i'm not going to give you a black eye today unless you start behaving badly but we will have fun with debate prep later in the show. for now, what are each candidate's strategic objectives and challenges in preparing, not for the debate itself, but preparing for the debate in september? >> what's interesting, side note, the great thing about a campaign and the whole process is we get to kind of see dress rehearsal. you see the way these two people would conduct themselves as president. trump from the gut, hillary in

the books. if there's a crisis in yemen i would rather have somebody in the books who knows what's going on. >> who knows what yemen is and where it is. >> here's the thing. if you look at both candidates, there are big pro and con. hillary's big pro is her competency. her con she's untrustworthy. trump is an outsider but his down side, he's dangerous and his temperament issue. in a debate, hillary can play to her strength, competency. trump can't play to outsider in a debate. that's a very top 10,000 foot on. his temperament can be in play. i think their strengths and weaknesses plays to hillary's strength in a debate but anything can happen. >> they both have historically high negatives. she is going to clearly prepare for this debate by doing what she always does. studying, being the ultimate wonk, knowing all the policy. but in order for her, she must try to take trump's weakness, the temperament issue, and provoke him, i think. she can't out-wonk him.

nobody expects him to go toe to toe with her on policy. she will try to get under his skin. for trump, he needs to figure out how to allay the fears of everyone in the country who worry he's not suited for the oval office. that's harder in some ways as a matter of preparation because he's been himself. being himself is the problem in some respects. >> yes. we all know, the psychologists have said this, he can be pricked easy. when you go after him as an unsuccessful businessman, as not as rich, the things that kind of, he props himself up on, you put pins in them, he reacts. here's the other cautionary tale for trump. we have seen trump onstage to an audience go at hillary clinton. it's going to be a different thing now, i will bring the gender thing in. a tall man, angry, tall, belligerent man, and hillary clinton. >> i sort of feel like you are talking to me, angry tall belligerent man. >> it will play particularly because we know the swing of the women voters, the suburban women voters, and watching him, it's

one thing to watch him talk out. it's another thing, you know he's prepped. he's got the gloves on and is ready to go. that could backfire. >> you know trump pretty well for a pretty long time. what are the three things you think she could do that would most like cause him to blow a gasket? >> the one thing psychologists have told me this, when she repeats his words, it drives him crazy. his literal, if you notice in all of her speeches that's what she's doing. what she's going to do to mock him, she will stay like this and well, like you said, and that's going to drive him crazy. i think we will have an historical moment in that debate one way or the other. >> i think she will play it like chris christie. she will be a prosecutor. >> the last speech will be the tone. there's another person who may be on the debate stage. in addition to qualify, libertarian candidate gary johnson needs 15% or higher in an average of five polls selected by the commission on presidential debates mid-next

month. new national survey out by nbc news has hillary clinton leading donald trump in a three way 41% to 37%. johnson is getting 11%. johnson also has to get on enough state ballots to have a mathematical chance of winning a majority vote in the electoral college. as of today, his campaign says he's only a few states shy of appearing on every ballot and that he is on track to qualify on all 50 states. right now, say he's in there. who does it help or hurt more? hillary or donald? >> i want to point out one thing about that poll which is you are having difficulty counting to four. it's a four way race, not a three way race. we have jill stein, the green party candidate. >> but that's if he's on stage. they're in the three. one, two, three. >> it helps trump enormously. she has all the experience of having done a lot of one-on-one debates before. one-on-one debates are different than multi-candidate affairs. she's debated barack obama many many times one-on-one. she went one-on-one with sanders many times. she knows how to do that thing. trump is going to have a hard time managing the new kind of debate format one-on-one. if he had gary johnson onstage

with him it would deflect and allow him to be able to do what he did in the multi-candidate debates and reply play to his advantage. >> i agree with you. he's larger than life. when it's three he becomes literally larger than life. when it's two, he's one-on-one. he's never done that. he's not played that. i'm hoping johnson's onstage if i'm the trump people. it's hard to prosecute somebody on the witness stand when somebody else is standing there. >> it's also the case even if you accept that trump has some political skill which he clearly does, he won the republican nomination, what he doesn't have is policy depth. one-on-one means just more minutes to fill. the more minutes to fill, the deeper the conversation goes. the deeper the conversation goes, the more trouble trump is in because she just knows more about everything than he does. >> we will see granular. the media who i agree at the end of the day the media does lean towards hillary, whether subconsciously or consciously, make it granular. they will not let him off the

hook at this point. >> we agreed. >> amazing. >> i didn't think we would agree this entire show and we did. let's move on. donald trump is ready at last to make his major immigration policy speech in phoenix, arizona tomorrow. it's still unclear exactly what trump's position will be on the 11 million or so undocumented people living in the united states but his team has been all over the air waves contrasting his other immigration plans with those of hillary clinton. one thing we can be sure of is that trump will emphasize an idea that he hasn't wavered on, the wall. why? here's trump's campaign manager and our guest yesterday, kellyanne conway, on fox news radio today. >> a wall is something very -- it's very easy for people to understand. it's physical, it's tactile, it's visible. if you build a wall, then of course, you are putting, you are actually putting boundaries, not invisible boundaries but actual boundaries between us and a country where drugs are flowing over the border, people are coming over the border, we don't

know who's living among us and by the way, it's for their safety as well. >> donny, my question for you, donald trump is in a political pickle on immigration. his base is one place, the country is some place else. is there anything he can say tomorrow night that can get him out of that dilemma? >> no. he's if a sour pickle. there's an irony here. >> sour pickle. >> there's an irony here in that he started out as the outsider. hillary clinton is the typical litician. yet what trump has been doing i think particularly on this issue, he keeps flip-flopping. the average person in this country is not stupid. a latino voter is not stupid. he has shown his cards. for him to come out, it doesn't matter what he says. we feel in our guts, we know how he feels. we know what he believes. the average person knows it's 75 days before the election. de n he did not just see the light. the very thing he accuses hillary of, following the polls, listening to the pundits, that's what he's doing. it's obvious, it doesn't matter

what he does now. it's baked in. >> kellyanne conway said he's going to enforce existing law, that hasn't happened. that's her argument. we haven't enforced existing law. of course it's the case that barack obama has deported more people than any president in history, undocumented immigrants. the law says that those 11 million people who are here illegally, most of them should be deported. we have taken a, our administrations, democratic administrations have taken a more humane posture towards that. if trump wants to enforce the law, he has to start deporting people in larger numbers and this is the problem for all republicans. everyone's in favor of border security. the wall is never going to happen but everyone says border security first, then what? 11 million people. what are you going to do with them? trump at least crazy as that deal was, originally was like deportation force. that's the only solution. of course, that's not the solution politically because it's not possible to do. >> he's baked himself in a

corner. people vote for people, not . he's shown his color or lack of color, i don't mean color, but his lack of conviction here and that is the tell. the same thing with the muslim ban. he's had -- >> he looks like a politician. he looks like a politician. >> he's had 117 policy changes on key issues. primary voters will decide today whether senator john mccain and marco rubio get to move on to the general election. we talk about those races when we come right back. we have to be very precise. if we're not ready when the planets are perfectly aligned, that's it. we need really tight temperature controls. engineering, aerodynamics- a split second too long could mean scrapping it all and starting over. propulsion, structural analysis- maple bourbon caramel. that's what we're working on right now. from design through production, siemens technology helps manufacturers meet critical deadlines. i think this'll be our biggest flavor yet. when you only have one shot, you need a whole lot of ingenuity. sorry ma'am. no burning here. ugh. heartburn.

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it's primary election day in arizona and florida, where three high profile candidates are trying to keep their jobs and advance to the general election. joining us from the sunshine state where marco rubio and former dnc chairwoman debbie wasserman schultz are defending their seats, msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt. in grand canyon country, where senator john mccain is campaigning hard, nbc news correspondent kelly o'donnell. where does mccain's primary contest sit now and how tough

has it been for the senator? >> reporter: well, it's certainly been tough in the optics and the politics of this heated campaign season but polling shows mccain pretty far ahead of his challenger, who is very conservative. she's a trump supporter. 47-year-old kelli ward has served in the state legislature and by profession she's an osteopathic physician. she has been hammering mccain on his age, on incumbency, on issues. that creates a challenge on primary day, not wanting voters to sit home. arizona gets pretty hot here in august and getting people to the polls, we stopped at a polling place. turnout did not look particularly strong. but then you have to factor in early voting, where voters have been able to do that pretty much the whole month of august, where they are able to send in their ballots and that could have a real impact here. when we spoke to mccain today, he was saying that he feels

confident in part because they have had a lot of young supporters who have been trying to get people to the polls, do the phone banking, trying to get them to turn out. >> kasie, same question to you across the country and still in the southern part of the world down there in florida. marco rubio has a primary. lot of people didn't know if he was going to run for re-election. how does that stand? seems like he's pretty safe. >> reporter: yeah. i got to tell you guys, i didn't expect to be covering the senate primary with marco rubio's name on the ballot based on what he had told us earlier this year. quite a litany of reasons why he was not interested in returning to the senate. obviously he changed his mind after the primary didn't go his way. he is facing someone who has a little bit of trump-like profile. he's a businessman but he's running far behind rubio. rubio is expecting to win big here tonight and that sets him up to potentially face patrick murphy, the democrat, the general election. he has a primary as well but is

expected to win there. of course, rubio is running ahead of donald trump here at the moment but he's run into a couple of speed bumps when reporters have asked him about some of the things he had to say about trump during the primary since of course, rubio's now endorsed trump, the miami herald ed board asked him whether or not he stood by the statements that he had made, whether he still believed trump was a con man. rubio says i stand by everything. i will be interested to see if he sticks to that line through november if trump continues to slip here in florida. hillary clinton having the lead in polls. >> let's take a look at the general election. if mccain wins today as we all expect him to, he will face likely congresswoman ann kirkpatrick in november. the latest general election polling from cnn has mccain leading 52% to 39%. give me a sense of what you think the general election challenges are going forward for senator mccain.

>> reporter: well, when you talk to allies of mccain, what they are concerned about is the hillary clinton effect. if she is doing well in arizona and certainly democrats are trying to target arizona, in part it's long been one of their target states, and they are looking at changing demographics. so with clinton at the top of the ticket, could that help another woman candidate, another democrat. mccain goes by his argument that he has 100% name i.d., that voters will judge him on who he is and who he has been over time. so he's making it personal about the kind of service he's provided to arizonans. at the same time, his allies will say that trump is this unpredictable factor. if he is a drag on republicans in arizona, could that hurt mccain. the math is there for it to be a problem. at the same time as you point out, he's got an advantage in polling. money isn't an issue. but they also know that democrats have some other high target states where they may spend most of their resources before they get to arizona in

terms of trying to flip the senate to also try to flip this state for hillary clinton. so it will be a tough fight. expect mccain to really grit it out. he likes a fight that kind of brings out the old warrior in him. and they see ann kirkpatrick as a formidable opponent, someone who has gotten a lot of attention and could be hped by hillary clinton if she does well here, and especially with latino voters who they are certainly trying to register if they aren't already on the rolls. >> obviously we know the history of senator mccain and donald trump. now that we move to a general election, what's the trump strategy? we know how he plays personally. how does he play it to the electorate? >> my expectation is that john mccain will not spend time with donald trump. he can do that on several levels. he's been the nominee of the party, he made a promise to support the nominee of the party before anyone knew it would be donald trump. he will keep that promise in terms of supporting him. it doesn't mean he has to appear with him or campaign with him,

and mccain gets irritated when he's asked about trump day after day after day after day. he knows those questions are coming but he will try to separate himself on issues when necessary, but when i asked him about trying to navigate this sort of difficult thing where he don't want to alienate the trump voter, doesn't want to risk his place with the party, needs those voters to turn out, and at the same time, knows he's running against a more moderate democrat, how do you do that. he goes back to his own personal brand in trying to sell that. so will there be trump unity with other elected officials in arizona? i certainly don't see that now and so there was some talk about trump having a unity event here in arizona. i don't see folks lining up to do that. john mccain will have his campaign trail perhaps going in a different direction when trump is in this state. >> kelly o'donnell, thank you. we lost kasie hunt, who was and still is in florida. she's just not with us right now. when we come back -- >> we haven't actually lost her.

>> she's there. when we come back, pastor of pets after this. anncr: want feedback that helps? verified reviews. another reason to join angie's list for free. this new ac guy is not that good. no he's not. anncr.: need a job done right? search top-rated providers on angie's list. join for free. when heartburn comes creeping up on you. fight back with relief so smooth and fast. tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue. and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. tum-tum-tum-tum-tums smoothies, only from tums.

hillary clinton: i'm hillary clinton and i approve this messag vo: in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move. donald trump audio only: "i would bomb the sh_t out of them." vo: just one. wheyou wantve somto protect it.e, at legalzoom, our network of attorneys can help you every step of the way. with an estate plan including wills or a living trust that grows along with you and your family. legalzoom. legal help is here. soon, she'll be binge-studying.. get back to great. this week 50% off all backpacks. office depot officemax.

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about pastor mark burns who today, a donald trump surrogate, african-american pastor tweeted this blackface cartoon of hillary clinton yesterday, defended it, then today apologized. the big question about this to me is, it seems like with donald trump and minority outreach, every step forward is taken by one, two, sometimes three steps backwards. >> 10, 20. >> is this something you think has any chance of going anywhere good? minority outreach piece, i mean, broadly. >> no. look, i think there are strong conservative arguments for how minorities have been ill served by democratic and liberal policies, whether you look at the education issues, at the welfare reform debate, a lot of criminal justice, crime issues. but the way to wage those arguments if you are a conservative is not to accuse your opponent of being racially prejudiced. i strongly disagree with hillary clinton on a range of issues. i do not think she's a bigot. i do think there is resonance for making these cases for

conservatives. this is not the way for trump and his surrogates to do it. the way they are doing it is just reinforcing a lot of the perceptions i think voters have. >> wrong perceptions i want to go back to your experience with romney. basically voters aren't stupid. they hear enough over a period of time and it registers. my feeling, there's nothing he can do with the minority vote at this point. working with romney, were there any baked-in issues that were all along baked in, you were actually able to turn, or is there a certain moment in time, where basically nine weeks away from the election it's transparent, it's clear and you ain't moving those needles on some very core issues like this? >> once you are on the eve of labor day, the idea, small issues, maybe. big issues like you are saying, core issues, on the eve of labor day, the idea you can make a massive transformation, absolutely not. for this entire campaign, donald trump has made among the centerpieces of his campaign trafficking in kind of economic nationalism, tribal, ethnic tribalism, vulgar isolationism.

those are the big themes of his campaign. the idea he can dramatically change the way certain segments of the electorate perceive those issues and the way he's talked about them now, 70, 80 days out, it's extremely difficult. particularly if you have no organization. no media, no real media capacity, no real ground capacity. how do you -- no real surrogate operation. how do you actually marshal the army you need on television and through surrogates to convey that? i just think it's very difficult. >> i know you were like on the french riviera on your yacht last week. >> unbelievable. i wish the audience knew how you mocked him off camera. >> here's the thing. you missed a lot of the discussion last week about this minority outreach thing. which is this is not about minorities. all he's trying to do is reassure white suburban republican leaning women. is that working? >> no. >> can it work?

>> no. first of all, i do believe that is probably what's going on. what they are really trying to do is sort of calm down upper middle class, middle class whites in the suburbs and exurbs. again, you can't spend a year campaigning aggressively with such aggressive rhetoric and dominate the media discussion, the media landscape, with one position, then just flip it late whether you are trying to actually reach minority voters or trying to reach this sort of other segment of the electorate you think it will resonate with. >> before we go to break, i don't have statistics on this, just in terms of gut. obviously donald has been putting out the health conspiracies. to women voters ando voters, does that in a certain way backfire where you kind of see through it, it seems like below the belt kung fu fighting or does it register in. >> there's no data or evidence that it's breaking through. i just think trump, if anyone

wants to make the argument that a particular candidate is not being totally transparent on records, trump isn't the person to prosecute that case. the fact that every single day someone is making the point that he still, it's perplexing that he still will not release his tax returns. >> it's not perplexing. he can't. not because he's a crook. because he pays zero in taxes and gives very little to charity. >> what's perplexing is a candidate of a major party heading into the election has not released his tax returns, it's absurd. >> i disagree with him on almost everything. you are passionate about him releasing his tax returns. i feel the same way. his job as a citizen. it's a travesty he's not. >> we will continue this conversation right after this break. o severe ulcerative colitis, the possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal.

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that is akin to asking donny to be humble which isn't very likely to happen in the real world. >> he's an angry man. >> pretend you are running donald trump's debate prep. >> how i would love that. i would just love that. >> what would you do? take it seriously. like what would -- what do you think the challenges would be and the main strategic objectives? >> well, first thing i would say is don't take the wrong lessons from the primary debates. what you are about to experience in the general election debate is nothing comparable to the primary election debate. the primary election he was on a stage with 13 people. while the debates were an hour and a half to two hours in any given evening, the amount of actual time he was on for cumulatively, 10, 15, 20 minutes. he had a lot of breaks during those debates. not only ad breaks, but when rubio and cruz were fighting. >> it's not only the breaks. it's that he gets to be king of the hill. it's not even just the time. it's actually the whole dynamic.

>> it's also the stamina. i was struck when i was doing debate prep, i did some debate prep with rubio. i would be at some of the debates. even when you would see trump backstage and i talked to others involved with the debates who would say he was exhausted. he actually didn't like the debate process that much. he liked his moments which are often effective but he didn't like standing up there for hours and having to deal with all the sort of fatigue that's associated with that. now, he's on, 100 million people will be watching. it's just him against one person. it's not him against 13 people. there are no breaks. there's no distractions. and actually, hillary clinton has had much more debate experience that's relevant to these kinds of debates. her debates with bernie sanders in the last half of this primary process are much more similar to what she will be dealing with with trump. her debates with barack obama basically one-on-one in 2008, she has much more experience. do mock debates. he apparently doesn't want to do mock debates. just in terms of getting into that rhythm, knowing what it's like. >> he don't want to do a lot of stuff you got to do for that job.

i want to bounce this theory off you guys. i have a theory regardless of what's on the docket there may just be one debate. if somehow donald trump wins that debate, he will go good night, drive safely. if he gets humiliated, he's not going back up there. so i have a feeling this could be our only debate. any thoughts on that? >> look, it's always been my view that everything except for the first debate is up for grabs. the dates of the debates, how many there would be, everything else, for exactly the reasons you are talking about. the trump campaign has not been, they have not said we are committed to all three debates in these locations under the auspices of the commission on presidential debates. i think there's some chance for the reasons you say that after that first debate things could change. >> he would have to do so well for him to bail. even if he does well, i don't think he does well enough that he says i'm done. i have this locked. >> that's the problem. he's coming from such -- >> what's the best he can do? in this debate, the best he can do is probably bring most of the republican voters home which happened with romney after the

first debate. romney in the first debate against obama tightened up, his numbers went way up. when you dig down, what really happened is he brought home skeptical republicans. trump could do the same thing. that's not winning the election. >> but if he does it, say he wins the debate not by three touchdowns, but wins a solid debate, people start to kind of think a little differently. i think he's more concerned of the stunning negative that one ignorant gaffe, that one explosion, that howard dean moment, i love howard dean but as an example, so absent of a future negative, i still there -- >> let me ask you this question, we talked about it before, about gary johnson. what do you think the implications are, if johnson gets in the debate it means what for each of them, clinton and trump? >> i think, i used to think that he was just a problem for trump, that he would just, has the potential to get disaffected republican voters who run happy with trump, somewhere to go and him being on the stage allows that to happen. but you watch the positions he's taken, the arguments he's made. there's a lot there that could

reach out to appeal to hillary voters, could appeal to bernie sanders voters. so i actually think him being there is potentially a problem for both of them. it's not clear to me who. i think there are voters that should be going to both of them that could wind up going to johnson. if i were either one of them i wouldn't want him there. >> let me ask you both a question. if you were moderatg and you each had the gotcha question for each candidate, which would be the compelling, you got one question for each, put him on the spot. >> man. i don't know that i would -- that's a really good question. i'm trying to come up with one off the top of my head. i think you would want to try to test trump on substance and on policy in a way that doesn't feel ridiculous. like you're asking him to name the capital of some obscure country somewhere in the world. trying to do something like i think, i'm not sure he could name -- >> prime minister of britain? >> i'm not sure he could name, i would ask, you sound very condescending. basic geography, questions about the constitution.

he's been confused about the number of articles in the constitution before. trying to get him to reveal some glaring flaw that anyone who is president of the united states should know the answer to which he doesn't. >> you don't even have to go that far. >> give me a question. >> i actually think you don't need to do a true gotcha. if you remember one of the last debates both rubio and trump were in, rubio started to press trump on policy. i think the debate in texas during the primary, around this health care plan. trump and rubio said i will give you my time, imagine that, hillary said i will give you my time, explain your health care plan, you have my time. he couldn't. he kept referring to the lines and rubio, but actually, don't have to do gotcha. actually press him on basic policy. >> your policy. >> yield your time. >> dan's the guest. what do you think the question you would ask clinton in this contest? >> in terms of -- >> the toughest questions. >> sort of dissecting the first term obama national security legacy. i think again, i would stick with policy and really make her

own that period. the best shot republicans, trump have against hillary is to make this election which it is, or should be, a change election, and make her the third term of what many voters think has been at worst a failed, at best an unsatisfied, unsatisfying presidency. make her own that. so ask questions that deal with her policy legacy when she was secretary of state. it's not pretty. the world is a mess. >> you saw mitt romney struggle with immigration and the hispanic vote, up close in 2012, and not being able to solve the deportation question and getting tagged as a self deportation advocate. what can trump do tomorrow in his immigration speech to solve the problem he has between what the general electorate wants on immigration and when his base demands? >> i don't think much. if you believe that tomorrow he's trying to say something to reassure latino voters as opposed to just white educated as we talk suburban and exurban

voters, if you believe he's actually trying to reach latino voters, hillary clinton, all the affiliated super pacs have a massive amount of resources to remind the electorate that regardless of what trump says, this is what he's actually been arguing for the past year. i think we who follow these elections minute to minute tend to think this speech is important, that speech is important, this tv appearance, this cable -- at this stage of the election if you are a voter in say ohio, are you paying that much attention to donald trump's immigration speech? what's going to have a bigger impact on you, that or the 20 or 30 ads you will see during the week on your local broadcast channel just reminding you that donald trump has trafficked in xenophobic rhetoric and xenophobic crowd. i don't think one speech, this stage of the general election it's all about mass deployment of media and grassroots organization, a speech doesn't change it. >> just to be clear if it wasn't already clear to everyone in this audience, dan is famously never trump. thank you for being on this show.

>> he uses a lot of really big words. ♪"all you need is love" plays my friends know me so well. they can tell what i'm thinking, just by looking in my eyes. they can tell when i'm really excited and thrilled. and they know when i'm not so excited and thrilled. but what they didn't know was that i had dry, itchy eyes. but i knew. so i final decided to show my eyes some love. some eyelove. when is it chronic dry eye? to find out more, chat with your eye doctor and go to myeyelove.com. it's all about eyelove, my friends. soon, she'll be binge-studying.. get back to great. this week 50% off all backpacks. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. sorry ma'am. no burning here. ugh. heartburn. try new alka-seltzer heartburn relief gummies. they don't taste chalky and work fast. mmmm. incredible.

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like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medil help right away. ask your doctor about cialis and a $200 savings card he didn't change his stance. what he did was, what he's done all along is he's speaking with the people. he's not lecturing them like most of the politicians today. he's having a conversation. he basically surveyed the room and asked what are your thoughts on this because i want to take

into account what the people say. unlike our opponent who will only take into account those who will contribute millions of dollars to her campaign. he's having a conversation with the people of this country. >> that was donald trump's son, don jr., talking about his father's immigration plan on . n we are joined by dan balls, chief correspondent of "washington post." also with us, simone sanders. they are both in washington, d.c. dan, i will put age before beauty and start with you. tomorrow, trump, immigration. we just asked dan senor this question. can trump get out of the political pickle he currently finds himself in? >> not easily, john. he's got to try to do two things. he's got to try to reassure the people who have cheered him for his very, very hard line anti-immigration stance from the beginning of the campaign. he's got to reassure them that he hasn't really moved and at

the same time, he's got to try to convince people who think he's been too harsh that he is a little bit more open to softening, if you will. he won't use that word but that's what he will try to convey. that's not an easy path to walk. it's a very difficult thing he's got to do. i think he's got his work cut out for him, frankly. >> walk that tightrope for me. what does he do? obviously those are the objectives. what do you do with that? >> i think first of all he will concentrate on enforcing the law in as tough a way as he can while he will be probably somewhat vague on what you do about the 11 million. i'm reminded of some of the things he's said over the past few days sound very much like what rick perry used to say months and months and months and months ago which is you deal with border, you solve the border problem, and you don't worry about anything else until

you have done that. and that doesn't mean you are not continuing to deport criminals or violent criminals who are here illegally, but that in one way or another, you don't make a first priority the deportation piece of what donald trump said from the beginning was a key part of his policy. >> simone, let me ask you, we were talking in the block before this about pastor mark burns and his tweet that showed hillary clinton in blackface. donald trump is ostensibly trying to do minority outreach to african-americans. when you have surrogates like that, should he at this point just sort of give up on this, or is it still appreciated, you think, among african-americans that he's at least going to try, go to detroit, give a speech to an actual african-american audience and try to talk to that community? >> you know, i think it's okay if you want to disavow some of your surrogates and perhaps the trump campaign should explore that. i think his outreach by

republicans and the republican party is still appreciated but if we are talking about african-americans specifically, i'm hard-pressed to find how donald trump could actually make inroads. i do want to give credit where credit is due. i have been saying for weeks now that if donald trump really wants to reach out to african-american voters he needs to talk to african-american people in african-american spaces and should probably go to an african-american church. i'm happy to hear he's going this weekend but i'm wondering what we are going to hear donald trump say. we haven't really heard any real policy prescriptions from donald trump when it comes to african-american and minority communities. again, i am interested in hearing what he's going to say tomorrow in terms of immigration. he really is walking this tightrope but do african-american voters believe him, this pivot if you will? i don't think so. because donald trump is still running the same race he was running a year ago. i just think donald trump has on different shoes. so this week it's african-american church. next week, you know, he could be hitting up a barbershop.

but he still has those same, he's still using that same divisive rhetoric and we haven't seen any real policy prescriptions. >> there was an nbc poll that kim out with i thought some surprising numbers, encouraging for trump as far as independent voters. his margin, hillary's lead has gone from eight to 4%. he's making inroads with the independent voters which means he's probably starting to sway some of the sanders people which is stunning and surprising to me given the previous numbers, how they were about 90%. in terms of your area to the ground, are you hearing any sanders people giving trump a second look? >> you know, i'm hearing a couple people giving trump a second look in terms of what he has done recently. so again, this pivot if you will that donald trump has made is not a real pivot to get african-american or latino voters. this is a real pivot to keep those folks that were leaning republican or that were kind of like trump supporters but were really maybe moderate democrats that have now said oh, i can't possibly vote for someone who is

spewing such divisive, at times racist and bigoted rhetoric, we can't vote for them. i think that's what you are seeing in these numbers. but when we get to the debate i think that's where the rubber really meets the road. that's when a lot of people will be really tuned in. we have been tuned in for such a long time. lots of the american people haven't. what donald trump says on that debate stage, is he going to go out there and be himself or will he be the new polished up kellyanne version? we don't know. i think that will make a difference in what the numbers look like. >> i'm going to ask a question, dan. "new york times" editorial board today comes out with a very tough editorial about the clinton foundation saying they got to cut ties in a significant way, not shut the foundation down but stop taking corporate and foreign donations right now. what do you think of that and where do you think the story goes from here when even a liberal voice as strong as the "new york times" editorial board is where it is on this issue? >> i don't think it will sway the thinking of the people at

the clinton foundation about what they do about foreign donations now. i think their feeling is that you can't cut something like that off immediately, that there has to be some kind of transition period, whether it's politically smart or not is a different question. i don't think practically, they think that that's possible or even advisable given the work that's being done with some of that money. but i think that that editorial was another flashing light for the clinton operation that they have to think even more seriously about what they do if she becomes president. i think it's clear that there is, as kind of a building support or building consensus that they have to probably go farther than they have announced they are willing to go. we will see. i think this is going to be a continuing issue and it will become a big issue if she gets elected. >> symone, similar question. the congressman from arizona, big supporter of bernie sanders, said that hillary clinton's got to break ties with the

foundation to make this issue go away politically. do you sense in the democratic party that there are now, there is some drift in that direction? >> i think what there is, nobody likes a distraction, right? we want to be focused on the election and talk about the issues. at this point, the conversation, not the foundation itself but the conversation around the foundation has become a distraction to the election and to the issues. so yeah, the conversation currently around the party is we would like to get back to talking about the issues. there are lots more things at play than what judicial watch has dug up and the controversy they helped create around the clinton foundation. that being said, i do think the clinton campaign realized this has become a distraction and the clinton foundation in itself as well. that's why you saw the foundation coming out saying with its new set ofuidelines if the secretary is to become president, they will change the name and i don't think in terms of the "new york times" editorial board they have to cut ties right now. remember, the clinton foundation

does really, really great work, work that no one else was doing not only in this country but around the globe. so we need that work to continue, that work is important, that work is vital. the people that donate to the clinton foundation, good stuff. i think it has become a distraction and currently, that distraction, we are trying to tamp that down. >> one name. who should play donald trump in debate prep with hillary clinton in. >> you know what, i don't know. donald trump is a special character. but mark cuban said he wanted the job. i say give it to him. >> you ready to second that, dan? >> i think you have to go with bob barnett. he's the veteran debate prepper. >> i'm throwing my hat in the ring. >> thank you both for coming on the show. coming right up, what happens when donny impersonates the donald? we find out in a mock debate. it's scary when the lights go out. people get anxious and my office gets flooded with calls. so many things can go wrong.

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as reports emerge on how the candidates are preparing for the

debates, we noticed hillary clinton is considering an interesting cast to play donald trump, people like james carville, mark cuban, even alec baldwin and jon stewart. i would like to make a plea. i'm from queens, i have known trump for years, i shoot from the hip and i'm a natural self promoter. >> also that hair. >> yes. yes. i asked my friend john heilemann a mock, a truly mock debate with me. he will play the part of hillary and i of course will be mr. trump and our colleague joe wiesenthal offered to be the moderator. >> please welcome the candidates, hillary clinton and donald trump. >> your hands really are a lot smaller than average. >> let's begin. the biggest threat to the next president is likely to be isis. donald trump, how do you plan to deal with isis? >> well, while mrs. clinton was futzing around with her e-mails and cozying up with the clinton

foundation and lying down because she's got no stamina, i was making my isis plan. and we're going to bomb every isis iser there is. >> secretary clinton, your response? >> mr. trump, first of all, let's just discuss the question of whether you even know what isis is. what do those letters stand for? >> well, our president doesn't know because he always throws in isil. as least i know it's isis. >> you accuse me constantly of having profiteered from my speeches. i think the people of america know the clinton foundation does good work, we have saved millions of lives swreesh. we worked on aids and malaria. if i happen to get rich in the process at least i'm rich, buddy. >> of the various countries that border france, which do you think is the greatest threat to american security? >> first, can you name the countries that border france, buster? >> this is not a quiz, okay? i'm not here to answer quizzes.

we bailed their asses out in world war ii and will do it again if we have to, okay? >> it's not your turn right now. i will ask you another question. hillary clinton has alleged that you lack the temperament to be president. how do you respond to that accusation? >> we have heard a lot about my temperament and the key word is temper. when i think about the clinton foundation, my temper rises. it certainly does. when i think about those e-mails, my temper goes through the roof. >> secretary clinton, would you like to respond? >> what actually are your issues with article 12 of the constitution, mr. trump? what are your issues? what are your problems with article 12? >> it's a beautiful article. it's a beautiful article. you know, everybody knows how much i love the constitution. speaking of constitution, do you think you have the constitution to stand up for 90 minutes because we heard something about your health issues. >> ha! there is no article 12 of the constitution, you moron. >> candidates, please. please take turns. >> there he goes again. >> i said no props.

>> this is enough. >> see, this is what she does. she lies. >> mr. trump, i have your mcdonald's. >> thank you, chris. you got the mcnuggets? >> mcnuggets, extra sauce. >> none for you. >> on behalf of john and myself, we apologize. both on the track and thousands of miles away. with the help of at&t, red bull racing can share critical information about every inch of the car from virtually anywhere. brakes are getting warm. confirmed, daniel you need to cool your brakes. understood, brake bias back 2 clicks. givbeuse no one knows & likeave speat&t. recision.

hillary clinton: i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. vo: in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. donald trump: "knock the ap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move. donald trump audio only: "i would bomb the sh_t out of them." vo: just one.

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so thanks to donny. sayonara. >> "hardball with chris matthews" is next. the pastor's apology. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. tonight it is a primary tuesday, the marquee race out in arizona. that's where senator john mccain is facing a challenger from the right who sounds an awful lot like donald trump. we look at