in battleground florida. that does it for us on this wednesday. i'm alex witt. >> i'm louis burgdorf. >> "morning joe" starts right now. good morning on a wednesday morning. i'm willie geist. mika has the morning off. we have breaking news overnight to get to. the city of charlotte, north carolina, is on edge after violent protests erupted over the deadly police shooting of an african-american man. more than 200 demonstrators gathered last night carrying signs and in some cases verbally taunting officers in riot gear and physically as well throwing rocks according to an nbc producer on the scene. officers used flash bangs and tear gas disperse the crowd. 12 officers were hurt including

one hit in the face by a rock. unrest began spreading after the death of a man. they came upon scott in his car. >> at this point all we know is they're in the apartment complex parking lot and this subject gets out with a weapon. they engage him. and one of the officers felt a leithal threat and fired his weapon because of that. >> a social media post who said she's the daughter of scott said she was unarmed and disabled. a police source confirmed the man who died and the police officer who shot him were african-american. let's bring in nbc news correspondent chris clappen live from charlotte. >> reporter: it was indeed. the scene here different than the one it was a few short hours

ago. protesters here ended up being met with tear gas because they had grown so tense, so volatile in their confrontation with police protesting the death of 43-year-old keith lamont scott as you mentioned. an important point to make at this particular point, willie, is police say they have indeed recovered the gun from the gun that scott allegedly possessed at that point. after the protesters were dispersed from this particular scene by the tear gas, they moved over to a major interstate here in charlotte. interstate 85. and blocked the interstate in both directions taking their protest over there. but that broke up just a short while ago with the police chief and the mayor of charlotte now calling for calm and promising a thorough investigation.

willie? >> all right. chris clackum, thank you very much. conflicting reports about whether or not mr. scott was armed. his family saying he was not. police say they recovered a weapon. >> and then tulsa. my gosh. that footage is just shocking. >> hundreds of protesters in downtown tulsa, oklahoma, yesterday calling for the arrest of police officer betty shelby. there are duelling interpretations of the dramatic video released and we hear the officer's side of the story for the first time. nbc's gabe gutierrez has the details. >> with the suv stopped in the middle of a two-lane road, a 911 caller wasn't sure what to make of him. officers responding to an unrelated call spotted him. but said he ignored their commands for more than a minute.

video shows that he had his hands up as he walked back to his vehicle. an officer in the chopper who can't be heard by officers on the ground makes this observation. second later, one officer deploys her taser and another fires her gun. she joined the police department five years ago. >> she said she was never this scared ever in her entire life. she clearly believed him to be under the influence of some type of narcotic, possibly pcp, because she is a drug recognition expert. >> reporter: citing the lead investigator in the case that a vial of pcp was found in the suv and no weapon was found. >> you can see that -- >> reporter: the attorney for the family shows the video shows he wasn't reaching inside the vehicle because his window was up. >> it shows that this department, like many police

departments around america, see people of color as criminals and suspects but not as american citizens. >> reporter: the district attorney is now reviewing the case to see if any criminal charges should be filed. >> we're looking at two different cases this morning. one in tulsa, oklahoma, the one in charlotte. >> the one in tulsa though, the guy is walking slowly. he looks like he's on pcp? >> his hands are in the air the whole time. >> he's walking slowly. >> when your hands are up here, what are you doing? >> he was walking slowly back to the car. his hands were in the air. he does absolutely everything that police would tell you to do. look at that. hands in the air. legs spread. the window is closed. and then they shoot him. and by the way -- >> there's one, two, three -- >> who's in the helicopter?

four cops. who's in the helicopter saying this guy looks like bad dude. he looks like he's on something. the guy is walking slowly. >> that comment from the helicopter confirms every suspicion african-americans have in this country about the way police look at them. an african-american man walking down the road and call him a bad dude. >> look at the splashy sports car. wait. he's driving a family suv. it's pathetic. in khakis. a t-shirt. his arms are in the air. >> you have three police officer. guns drawn. weapons drawn at the rear five feet from the rear of the automobile. and one of them, we're told just now by defense counsel, she's a drug recognition expert. so fully eight feet, ten feet away from the supposed, you know, person on pcp.

she's a drug recognition expert. please, stop it. >> let's go through these. ferguson, we didn't have a camera on there. we didn't know exactly what was going on. it was a he said/she said situation. baltimore. we saw what happened to freddie gray on the ground. we never -- we don't know what happened in the back. it's two different accounts. you go one after another after another. eric gardner was just pathetic and sickening and the morning it happened we said those officers should be arrested and put in jail. black and white. this is black and white. this is black and white. you know what? there needs to be due process. it needs to go through the proper steps. i tell you what. this better not be an inside job in tulsa. this better not be an inside job. they better have an independent

prosecutor. somebody from outside that district that does not work with the police department day in and day out getting bad guys off the street. it better be independent. and there better be justice here. it's pretty shocking. >> all right. we'll be all over that story all morning. keep you updated as we learn more. let's move to politics. donald trump was in north carolina yesterday where an elon university poll shows his campaign is back to life. a tightening race in florida where clinton's lead has shrunk to just five points. 46% for secretary clinton to trump's 41%. >> we've seen polls that show that race a bit closer actually. there i would think probably given all of the polls over the past week if you're in the clinton campaign, you're okay with a five-point lead in

florida given the bad news you got last week. >> i think they probably woke up yesterday and felt okay about taking the day off the trail for debate prep. national poll showing them and then the week before -- she had probably the worst post-labor day out of any general election candidate in the lead all summer that i can remember. she seems to have righted the ship. >> you know florida. i know florida. this is what i don't understand. i see -- i understand pennsylvania. i understa s states that are wider. i've never understood how a state with as many hispanic voters could be tied, for instance. you just go through the i-4 corridor and you look at a lot of puerto rican immigrants in that area who were not voting for donald trump for the most part. >> you look at his strength in the primary where he wiped out two of florida's favorite sons, jeb bush and marco rubio. for short-term he paid a price

for an extremely toxic primary there in the same way his weakness in arizona is because of his toxic fight with two republican senators who have approval ratings in the 90s with jeff flake and john mccain. but he has surprising strength in florida beyond the panhandle. >> my familiarity with florida is restricted to lee county. my instinct about lee county is he could carry 60% of the voters. >> i agree with you. >> he's going to do extremely well in north florida. he's going to do extremely well in southwest florida. democrats are going to do extremely well on the coast of east florida in which we republicans for years called the killing fields. we have. if you get out of dade, broward and palm beach county -- >> four blocks in miami but other than that -- >> if you get out of those three counties and you're down 300,000 votes -- in fact, i know w. was

going to win in 2004 because he only lost in killing fields by 300,000 votes. then it's i-4 corridor. again, it's such a diverse state. this is a state that if i'm hillary clinton and donald trump is ahead in any polls in florida, i'm in trouble. >> and for donald trump's part -- >> of course she's ahead five now. i'm just saying polls show it closer. >> a week ago it was closer. >> you cannot draw a winning map for donald trump without florida. it's not there. if you take that off the map, you have to pull magic in states he's not going to win. he has to win florida. it's close. he has to spend time there. >> if he wins florida -- >> that's indicative of something much larger that he's broken out of this stereotype of just getting high school white dudes that watch wrestling. which is what the media likes to say. that's basically -- those are --

>> you just described my high school years by the way. >> describing me and all of my friends currently. so trump has always promised that i'm going to expand the map. of course new york, we're not buying it. but some evidence that he could win a state republicans haven't won since 1988. >> maine has not voteded for a republican in the presidential election since 1988. clinton and trump are tied in the four-way race at 37. clinton would win in a two-way race. trump is poised to pick up one holding 11-point lead in maine's northern second district where president obama won in 2012 by eight points. >> wow. that's pretty crazy. >> we call that a swing. >> that's a big swing. that's almost a two-point swing in the north of the state.

that's a 20-point swing. i don't mean to make it all about race, but you look at demographics and demographics is destiny. it's a very, very white state. >> her weakness is pretty well documented among white working class voters and his strength as well. >> that's what it is. northern maine, it's been decimated economically for the past 10, 15 years. people feel disenfranchised by the government. it's not a surprise he's going to do well up there. >> willie, when we're in new england, can you explain something to brother barnicle for me. i'm enjoying the red sox up 5-1. mike barnicle sends a tweet out. i'm not one to jinx anything but i think destiny is on our side this year. >> i was surprised to see that tweet. you know better. >> did you see my response? i tweeted back at him. i said, buddy, i hate to bother

you on the mound, but i want to let you know you're one out away from pitching a perfect game. good luck. don't jinx us. it's unbelievable. and sam stein was, like, no! >> as soon as i sent it, he rarely tweet. as soon as i did it, the orioles got two men on. >> what's wrong with you? you don't do that. >> i was watching the insults to more sam stein. i had to go back to figure out what his original sin was. this gets to what donald trump's compulsion must be. if you can't hold yourself back tweeting during a red sox mike -- >> i guarantee you that the red socks are more important to him. >> we're over watching portugal

play usa. there's two minutes left. he stands up and goes i can't believe we beat portugal. i jumped out of my chair. i said i can't tell you exactly what i said. get out of my -- and everybody starts laughing. i said you never, ever, ever do that until the game is over. until the match is done. sure enough ptugal runs down the sidelines, beautiful pass. you can't do that. you've been around this long enough. >> i got carried away by the ortiz home run. >> i hate to go here. i have a vivid image in my mind game six, 1986. red sox on the top step. >> you do not talk about 1986. >> the owner of the team at that time just brought the champagne down. >> don't ever do that.

don't ever do that. don't ever do that. >> let's go back to the news. >> we have to in. >> my heart just broke. >> trump picked up support in california. >> this all of '86 was a nightmare. the worst sporting series. >> do we have any footage of that? >> you don't want to show that. >> can we show it? i need to see it. we have three hours, can we not show a bit? >> that was the worst. '86 was the low point as far as sporting events. >> you think? you think? >> you could have chosen '78. 2003 was pretty bad. >> nothing was worse than '86.

>> nothing was worse than '86. >> you started this with your sanchez swing. >> rise young catcher in major league baseball. >> the old sanchez swing. all right. trump has gained support in california where he's climbed seven points since july. still down 17. that's one of the states he's claimed he was going to claw back. california, new york, that's not going to happen. hillary clinton was off the trail yesterday. donald trump very much on twitter. he tweeted hillary clinton has taken the day off again. she needs the rest. sleep well, hillary. see you at the debate. >> was she off the trail? >> a day of prep. she did a radio show. >> what did w. do? did he go off the trail? >> debate prep. if you do it in a traditional matter which reports suggest he's not, he does it on the

weekends not in a mock debate setting -- >> while he's golfing? >> i don't know. >> with her though -- >> to set up a mock debate, it involves someone playing your opponent and policy folks. >> we don't know if he has anyone. >> there's someone playing donald trump apparently. the stakes for next monday couldn't be higher. >> my question is for hillary to be off the campaign trail a week before the most important debate in recent political history, that's not a big deal, is it? i'm not doing her bidding? is it a big deal? >> it's disciplined. it's what you should be doing. whatever you do between now and then is dwarfed by what's going to happen at the debate. it's professional. it's discipline. it's what you should do. >> that would be my attitude. nothing is bigger than this. when you worked with w., what did he do? >> it's normal to take a day off the trail to do debate prep. it was a little -- considering

how tight this race is in the post-labor day stretch, surprising she didn't try to get one public event or one national interview. she called into the steve harvey radio show. to take a day -- you can't wait until the weekend before. it's on monday. if you identify real problems, i also think to be honest i don't know that her performance in commander in chief forum was something that her team felt would be enough. >> her performance was bad in commander in chief forum. terrible. >> taking this seriously and managing expectations about the hill she has to climb to stand on the stand is a smart strategy. >> numbers in the polls that we just indicated, florida and north carolina, i think there's a feeling from speaking to speak over there that, okay, we survived the worst. we're going to be okay. >> i think it's more the case with her than it is with donald

trump. if she turns in a great performance, donald trump turns in a weak performance, i think that sets a dynamic in stone throughout the end of the campaign unless there's some surprise. she could actually -- i'm not going to say she could win it. she could go a long way to winning the presidency with a great debate performance. what donald trump can do is just put a whole lot more doubts in people's mind that she doesn't have what it takes to be president. >> i do think donald trump will be judged differently by the country and the press in these debates. he was a novelty in those debates. his bluster and one liners and lack of policy was new and fresh and all those things. now he'll be hammered on detailed policy prescription. what do you mean we'll knock the hell out of isis and what do you mean the guy arrested in new jersey shouldn't have a lawyer? shouldn't have a doctor. you go down the line and ask him those things so he could be he

can pobe exposed. >> does hillary clinton have the nerve, does she have the stage presence to keep pushing? how are you going to knock the hell out of him? no. tell me. they ask the next question. no. we're going to to get specific on one thing. how are you going to knock the hell out of isis? how? i know people hate when i actually talk about things that happened in my life before, but in my first campaign, i had a debate and he could ask people four questions. i asked my opponent the same question. she never answered. and so i actually said -- she was asking all of these wild, negative -- my fourth question is the same as my third, same as my second question same as my first question. name one program in all of washington, d.c. that you would be willing to abolish. wouldn't answer it. i won the debate. won the election. but nobody has the guts.

give me a specific answer. how are you going to beat the hell out of them? what are you going to do? >> it's a very effective debate strategy to directly engage your opponent. if you look back at sort of recent debate history, you know, 2012 it was widely perceived that president obama lost that first debate. in 2004, we thought that president bush lost that first debate against senator kerry. so debates matter. i mean, they can -- we swung over 10 points between the end of our convention and the morning after our first debate. they matter a lot. for her if she can sort of, you know, reshuffle the dynamic and get the wind at her back, i agree it will put her in a strong position. one thing she has going for him is on the debate stage he's always graded on a curve by the viewers. he did wacky things in the republican primary.

the viewers never sort of charged him a price for acting -- >> south carolina debate performance was -- >> debacle. >> it was as bad as -- >> he won south carolina a week later. >> not only did he win it. as bad of a debate performance i had ever seen in my life. next morning the cbs had a poll -- not a flash poll. cbs news had a poll out the last morning saying they thought he won. >> he won the state running away. he won the military vote in the state of north carolina. >> if you asked me what state loved george w. bush more than any other state in america in 2016, i would say south carolina. they loved him. unbelievable. but richard haas, donald trump has two things going for him. he's graded on a curve. let's say another republican candidate -- let's say ben carson had said, you know, what i think we ought to do is we

ought to have the military have their own legal system. he would be out of the race. he just would. anybody would. donald trump says that stuff. he just keeps on keeping on, baby. it's just like it -- that's one thing he has going for him. second, he's been a tv star for over a decade. he knows the medium better than anybody else in politics. so he's underestimated when actually he knows tv better than anybody else. that's a pretty powerful combination. and hard for hillary clinton to get past. >> fair enough. also a longer format. just the two of them. also we don't know how the moderators are going to handle it. how much are you going to drill down? mr. trump is good at the first answer. the question gets back to your point. can he sustain a conversation on issues and answer the second and

third time if people demand he peel away beyond slogans into real substance. >> the question again. does hillary get out of her comfort zone and keep pushing? >> she should. she should. still ahead on "morning joe," new questions about how donald trump's foundation spent other people's money including this masterpiece. a portrait of trump himself. >> you have one of those, right, willie? >> i stole it at his last christmas party. >> i get it next. >> a picture of willie's face. >> still empty over my fireplace. we'll be joined by general michael hayden and we'll check in with hillary clinton's campaign manager robby mook live from campaign headquarters in brooklyn. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. (vo) a lifetime of your dog's

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>> i'm not going to say anything. we were just recalling your experiencing with presidential debates and post-debate -- >> consequences. >> we better move on. >> it's hard to tell a president he may not have done as well. >> the good ones are the ones that win reelectioned adjust. let me say the point of our conversation was about a candidate with a good sense of humor. you can almost look back at people that win and it's often the one with the better sense of humor. i don't know what that says about this trurace. >> let's look at donald trump's sense of humor. president trump will fight back against a report today. >> questioning whether or not his charity engages in

self-dealing. "the washington post" reports the trump foundation used $258,000 to settle legal disputes of self-dealing rules prohibiting nonprofit leaders from using charity money to benefit themselves or businesses. at issue are four donatiodonati. one settled fines over the height of a flagpole. another resolved a dispute over hole in one golf contest at trump national new york requiring trump to make a $150,000 donation to his chosen charity. >> i often said during impeachment that you look at these things and you lie in a federal grand jury, you get sent to jail. all right. you spend $158,000 from a charity for a dispute in hole in one, you get sent to jail. these are the sort of things

where americans go if i did that, i would be getting a criminal lawyer. if that's true, that's crazy. >> over a hole in one contest. to me this is a front page of "the washington post" this morning, david has been reporting -- >> i bet he's going to get a pulitzer prize for his work. >> a 2013 donation was an advertisement for trump hotels and $10,000 check purchaseded a portrait of trump at a charity auction but "the washington post" reported trump did not respond whether it was used for charitable purposes. >> david is looking for this portrait? >> i think he's trying to track down the six-foot tall one. >> that one is in your huge -- willie has this bathroom that's all marble. 14 feet ceilings.

that is an awesome one. >> we bought the apartment upstairs and blew out the -- >> you had it but you passed it on? >> after the crash i had to sell it. money got tight. i had to sell my trump portrait. after the story was posted, readers sent the reporter a photo apparently of the portrait hanging in trump's resort in miami. trump's running mate mike pence responded to the story in "the post." >> i think what we found is there's a number of factual errors in that story as there were in previous stories about the trump foundation. i'm confident they'll be able to address those and demonstrate that they fully complied with the law. >> do you know what the factual errors are that the campaign is alleging in "the washington post" story? >> i think the foundation will

be able to lay those out. thereto were errors in the previous story. >> mike pence gets combat pay by the way. i was critical of that selection. he is perfect for that position. he does an extraordinary job. i mean doing the best he can. >> he just takes shrapnel all day. >> he does. he just picks it out at the end of the day. okay. tomorrow is another day. >> the whole interview was good in that pence just sort of seems to understand the problems but really does come back with like you said the best possible defense of donald trump. >> he does the best he can do. >> he didn't have an answer to that question. what were holes in "the washington post" story. >> in typical "the washington post" fashion, they got their facts wrong. it's the clinton foundation set up to make sure clintons enrich themselves by selling access and trading political favors. the trump foundation has no paid board. no management fees. no rent or overhead and no

family members on its payroll. there was not and could not be any intent or motive for the trump foundation to make improper payments. the reporting is peppered with inaccuracies and omissions from a bias reporter though it doesn't detail what those supposed inaccuracies are. >> they have no accountant and lawyer familiar with the laws governing foundation and what you do with foundation money. >> we all know you can't use foundation money to pay off lawsuits and pay off disputes and buy portraits of yourself. you can't do it. >> by the way and then if it's in the doral resort, again, that's self-dealing. you buy a portrait for $10,000 with foundation money and then you put it -- i don't know. >> the "post" reported he hasn't donated to the charity since 2008. our parent company, nbc universal, made a half million

dollar donation in 2012. in north carolina, trump spoke of his fondness for using other people's money in business when discussing his approach to syria. >> we'll lead the project. it's called opm. i do that all the time. it's called other people's money. there's nothing wrong with doing things with other people's money because it takes the risk. you get a good chunk of it and takes the risk. we'll do this in this case from a humanitarian standpoint. opm. other people's money. >> you know it's bad when he's got it down to three letters. opm. >> have to see those tax returns. >> you're never going to. >> got to see the tax returns. >> you'll never see them. >> it's not going to happen. i think there are millions of reasons why we're never going to see them now. >> clearly. >> i think donald trump jr. really said it best. if he released the tax returns, there's so much in there that

it's all anybody would be talking about for the rest of the campaign. so the question is, are voters -- i guess it's up to the clintons and press to keep pounding away and asking the questions and let people decide whether they're willing to vote on blind faith. >> they've been asking for them for over a year. they're not going to come in 49 days. coming up, another night and more aid workers reportedly killed in syria. we will be joined by michael hayden to talk about a bad situation only getting worse. >> they say russian fighters actually dropped the bombs on the convoy. vladimir putin. i would like to hear donald trump today condemn vladimir putin for that. >> we'll be right back on "morning joe." ok team, what if 30,000 people download the new app? we're good. okay.. what if a million people download the new app? we're good. five million? goodwe scale on demand. hybrid infrastructure, boom.

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to low-cost, high speed internet at home, helping to make sure that every hand in the classroom goes up. male teacher: okay, veronica. amphibian. male teacher: excellent. welcome to a brighter future. comcast. coming up next, president obama slams russia accuse the putin regime trying to reclaim glory through force. we have michael hayden to talk about that and we'll talk to richard haas and others about that u.n. speech. not exactly getting glowing reviews. "morning joe" back in a moment. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing.

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an observatory group says four aid workers were killed and russia is denying allegation business the united states that it's to blame for an air strike that killed numerous people. the strike has prompted the united nations to suspend all aid convoys in syria and 52 countries met at the refugee summit. according to president obama, the group planned to take in double the number of refuge ees next year well short of the 65 million people said to be displace the globally. joining us from washington, retired general michael hayden. general, always good to see you, sir. >> thanks, willie. >> let me ask you about the white house coming out strongly.

b they believe that it was russia behind the intentional bombing of aid workers in syria. >> i think they stopped short of intentional but a good case of a ground attack aircraft in the area. i'm very comfortable that this was an air strike. it was conducted by the russians. now, whether or not it was intentional, more difficult to determine. my first day in country my predecessor warned me never attribute malice that can be explained by incompetence. we'll have to see. >> what do you suspect knowing the region and the players here. is it a difficult thing to do to mistake an aid convoy for rebels? >> you really do wonder how that could have happened.

a large vehicle, large truck, convoy that had just passed through government controlled areas. but then again, the russian air force has weaker protocols than we do when it comes to putting ordnance on a target. again, willie, i don't have to prove it here to blame the russians for this. they are part and parcel for creating the situation in which this kind of thing would be frankly likely. last week you asked me what's the pass/fail aspect of the so-called peace agreement. i said ending the siege. the free movement of good, services and people and here we are. >> what do you make of the president's speech yesterday at the united nations? >> short answer was i thought it was a major disappointment. sporting equivalent would be running out the clock. no specifics about syria. >> do you think it was one of his worst speeches? >> i thought it was

disappointing. generalities. almost dispirited and defeatist on things we couldn't accomplish in the world. >> all reports i got one of the most dispirited u.n. chambers ever because of a lack of united states leadership. >> i think there's a couple themes hovering over this united nations gathering. one is what we're talking about here. the real sense of futility. >> there doesn't have to be if you have an american president actually willing to not let tyrants cross red lines and kill 200,000 people. >> what you see is a sense of retreat from american leadership around the world. that concerns about donald trump what he would bring to it but these things are adding up.

what we're seeing at the u.n. is -- >> we are seeing, are we not, the results of a president saying i'm not going to usher this country into a post-american world. >> joe, i think that's exactly right. let me differ just slightly with my good friend, richard. i thought it was a very elegant speech in terms of its analysis of the global situation. but you know? saying it hasn't made it so since the first six days of creation. and we have not participated in a meaningful way in a process that actually would help the circumstances on the ground in syria and a whole lot of other places. last week i mentioned there was a difference in language between mr. trump and president obama. you know, there's not a whole lot of difference between the obama administration's

retrenchment and mr. trump's america first. >> this is not the faculty lounge. this is the united nations, the united states is the most powerful country in the world. if we learned with george w. bush, what we do can be count producounter productive. >> eight years ago leaders blamed that barack obama believed he could go to a nation, deliver a speech and the speech itself was the ends instead of a means to the end. yesterday's speech inside the chamber, what are you hearing? >> i heard from middle eastern leaders, you would know bette than me, exactly what you just said. it was probably decent and perhaps elegant analysis but he's not an analyst. what they heard was the complete lack of any connection to any world leaders. he didn't give a speech in that room as if we were in constant contact with anybody else in the

room. he gave a speech as if he never talked to these people and only contact were public ones and that was so different not just from george w. bush who had better private relationships than some of the conflicts that erupted in public but there hasn't been an american president with fewer or weaker relationships with world leaders. >> it will be written in the history books that he didn't have good relations -- >> he didn't have friends. >> with democrats or republicans on the hill. mike will tell you this the first four years, the most scathing indictments of barack obama came from senior democratic leaders. and on the foreign policy stage, we've heard the same thing for eight years. no connections. >> we had ed royce on yesterday. the chairman of foreign affairs. he said we have things we can do in syria and his line is we can't get sign off on them meaning coming from the white house. >> general hayden in such a

fractured world, yesterday's speech i happen to agree with you. i thought it was eloquent and i thought it pointed at a direction for a post-american world. we can argue that. in a fractured world, what could a president of the united states do in addressing the united nations, incompetent group for the past decade or so, what can he do? >> nicole hit a very important point there. president bush probably would have been challenged to make a speech so eloquent as president obama yesterday but president bush would have done so much behind the scenes. i sat in the oval office. we had a meeting. he would just turn over his shoulder and say get me musharraf. he actually worked on the issues and invested his personal energy and i should add political capital in risking that in order to make things different in the

world. and sadly, i just don't think we're seeing much of that in the last half dozen or eight years. >> richard, you have to go back to fdr to find a president that had as many personal relationships and was as cued in as the first president bush, bush 41. for apostles that like to say friendships don't matter, personal relationships don't matter, just look at 1991, when he spent his entire life building personal relationships and could pick up the phone and even get assad's father to be part of one of the most extraordinary coalitions since world war ii. friendships matter. relationships matter. personal touch matters so you can pick up the phone and say get me this leader. >> that's half of it. the other half that matters is what we're willing to do. you can't ask other people to walk the walk if you're not willing to take the lead and do it with them.

it's not the fault of the united nations. it's the sum total of what the world is willing to do and the world is only willing to do a lot if we're willing to do a lot. if we're not willing to do a lot, the middle east is what you get. >> we remain the indispensable nation whether americans like it in 2016 or not. that's who we are. >> joe, i agree totally. you know what? just in terms of narrow, personal or self-interest? this doesn't become a game of don't pay or pay. it becomes a game of pay me now or pay me later and pay me later is always more expensive. >> general michael hayden, appreciate it. we're honored by your presence on our show. we're back in a moment. so that i can take my trading platform wherever i go. you know that thinkorswim seamlessly syncs across all your devices, right? oh, so my custom studies will go with me? anywhere you want to go!

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still ahead, violence overnight in charlotte, north carolina, part of a highway shutdown by protesters in the wake of a police-involved shooting. this one of the wrong suspect. we'll have the new details. plus, donald trump's campaign trying to make a comeback in two battleground states including one that president obama won in 2008 but lost in 2012. we've got the new numbers. and we'll bring in nbc's chuck todd and "the washington post" robert costa and jeremy peters with their analysis of the state of the race before monday's first huge debate.

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welcome back to "morning joe." mika is off this morning. where is she? >> nice. >> very nice. >> is she shipping champagne on a yacht? >> probably. >> did you get it? >> okay. >> it's like the sanchez swing. it's all connected. >> we'll need subtitles pretty soon. >> a translator. >> mike barnicle. >> legendary. >> nick all wallace and nbc news political director moderator of "meet the press" and host of daily chuck todd and we have

robert costa and jeremy peters is with us. chuck, we got some new polls out. and we want to talk about them right now unless you would rather talk about -- your people called and said you want to talk about this. >> why is she -- i'm confused. >> you don't get that? >> she was married to pitt. angelina comes in. she gets the last laugh. >> why is she on the cover? >> because she gets the last laugh. come on. your people said this is all you want to talk about. >> sorry, i didn't get that one. >> is nothing forever? >> what's forever? >> barnicle has been too upset to talk this morning. we've been trying to engage him. >> doesn't anybody stay together anymore? >> i was shattered. >> willie geist, news.

>> let's pretend the last three minutes didn't happen. >> so sorry about that. >> five days until the first presidential debate if you can believe it. let's begin this morning with new polling in key battleground states. donald trump was in north carolina yesterday. trump is tied with hillary clinton among likely voters, 44-43. meanwhile, a tightening race in florida where secretary clinton's lead shrunk to just five points. 46-41. 6% for gary johnson. >> chuck todd, also there are polls that have shown earlier this week that the race is tied. >> if florida feels -- look at the national poll and republicans will be better than whatever it is in the national poll. so that five-point lead in florida for her is kind of surprising. i don't think it's that big. i think it's smaller than that. there has been some stabilization of clinton's

numbers this week you can tell if anything. nbc/"wall street journal" will come out later this week. the weekend didn't go well for him. i think you're seeing -- >> in what respect? >> i feel like the birther stuff. i'm sure there's a bunch of things that impacted it. you have to think that helped contribute to her stabilization. >> were you surprised by the five-point lead in the national poll sort of jumped out at me nbc news survey monkey? >> i'll tell you later today when i see nbc/"wall stet journal." the point is there seems to be enough -- you saw -- i thought they handled birther terribly and it didn't help them. he had a lot of momentum going into the week and that friday event was singularly bad. and that poll confirms it. >> what about the gates op-ed? the former secretary of defense who served under two presidents? >> she seems to be hesitant

grabbing some of those a little bit. gates didn't exactly say great things about her. >> but he made an argument that would be credible with the swath of the electorate that's skeptical of both. >> it wasn't a pro-clinton argument. she has to come up with a pro-clinton argument. i think they've been leaning too heavily on anti-trump arguments. >> back to that florida poll for one second, we talked in our last hour, you can't draw a map for donald trump. a winning map that doesn't include florida. he has to spend a lot of time and attention in that state? >> florida, north carolina and ohio. he has to sweep all three. if you're not going to have pennsylvania and virginia. if you can't win those two -- and last week there was some optimism in republican circles because they saw numbers that seemed to show it tightening but if those two are off the board, sweep the three i just described, plus nevada, plus iowa, plus new hampshire, oh by the way, go win an electoral vote out of maine and hold that

in omaha. guess what? it's the first plausible path for trump that we've come up. that to me was significant. she's got more paths. his is harder. he has one that's not unrealistic. >> she's got a lot of different paths to go. he's got a couple. >> you mention maine not voting for a republican since '88. clinton would win in a two-way race. they split electoral votes by congressional district. trump poised to pick up one holding an 11-point lead in maine's second northern district where president obama won by eight points in 2012. >> bob costa, we're looking at a lot of different numbers this week. florida seems to be inching in hillary's direction. i agree with chuck, it's not five points. maybe it's two. maybe it's three. close to the margin of error. north carolina is essentially a

tie. ohio, trump ahead a bit. north carolina close. look at the map where he's going. by looking at all of his visits, what states do you think he thinks are the most important to him and is he going to really double down on between now and the campaign's end? >> it's those three states. you see him going to working class areas. places like the florida panhandle. he's not always just going to vote rich suburbs in swing states. going to places where he thinks he has to rouse that base. i think trump has in the back of his mind and you talk to his advisers, he's talking about it behind the scenes. he wants to play in blue states. at this point in a campaign, most national consultants would be saying to a candidate, hey, beg off a little bit. this is not a strategic thing but trump thinks his message can play in a place like connecticut. >> you say connecticut. they keep talking about connecticut. manafort talked about connecticut at the convention. the campaign still talking about connecticut.

they believe they are tied in connecticut. the last public poll i saw i think had hillary up 15 points. >> i think robby mook -- i think the clinton campaign would pay for trump to campaign in connecticut. >> they've been up there. why do they think they're going to win connecticut? >> everyone else is scratching their head about this. it comes from trump running this campaign on his instincts and based on his primary experience when he was going to blue states and saw big crowds in places like massachusetts, he has this gut feeling that's not backed up so much by data that he can win in places like these. the clinton campaign says play as much as you like there. they think those states are locked. >> jeremy peters, obviously hillary clinton had a horrific run over the past two or three weeks. but what are trend lines looking like now? >> they're relatively stable.

for all of the talk of volatility in the polls and hillary clinton's lead slipping away from her, you look at the trend line, this is a remarkably stable race. it's just like the primary. i would draw that analogy. during the primaries, even though the pundits and a lot of the press wanted to ignore the fact that trump was winning, trump was always winning from july 5th, 2015, on, there wasn't a poll average that showed him losing. it's the same thing now for hillary clinton. there is not a poll average that shows her ever trailing. so despite all of the blips in the news cycle and our a.d.d. focus on this race, which is here one minute, there the next, she's been relatively stable. >> robert, we're less than a week away from the debates. the campaign, stump speeches, generalities for donald trump. big crowds as you just referenced. debate will be about specifics. what, if anything, have you heard he is doing in terms of

debate prep and the idea that he's going to be asked very specific questions with details -- seeking details. >> he's not doing so much formal debate prep. the biggest two days for debate prep will be this saturday and sunday when he'll be down according to his schedule in new jersey sitting around with lra ingram going over details. for trump, it's not so much about beating her in points. it's about filling the suit. that's how it's been described to me. it's about convincing these voters who are skeptical and wary of him that he could look presidential and seem presidential and that he can fit that profile. >> i had heard that debate prep in the early stages was about sort of where he would be on the defensive. how he would answer the birther question, which came roaring back last week. how he would answer the question about his weeks long fight with

the khan family. we know it's not formal prep but where do you hear the issue of conversation right now? >> two key things to pay attention to. it comes down to people around trump. you have the longtime anti-clinton investigator at trump's side nearly 24/7 right now. he's the kind of person who is providing fodder for trump on the clinton foundation and you have steve bannon. one thing i'm looking for can trump with his anti-globalist messages and it's always in scripted remarks for trump, can he translate that to a setting where he can channel the message on populism and nationalism and bring it to a national audience in his own way. >> hillary clinton was off the campaign trail doing debate prep yesterday and donald trump noticed. he tweeted hillary clinton is taking the day off again. she needs the rest. sleep well, hillary. see you at the debate. donald trump tweeting there. chuck, back to trump and the debate. can he get away with the things he got away with in the primary debate which is to say lester

holt and hillary clinton herself are going to come at him very specifically on the example we used earlier what does it mean you're going to knock the hell out of isis and when he doesn't answer, they'll ask him again. >> biggest problem is there are no time limits. there isn't a bell. not eight other people to hide behind. three other people to hide behind. to me, it's the intellectual stamina. we're going to talk about stamina. he likes to talk about this. you know, even in his best debate performances, it always would be a great first 20. a great first 20 for him where he would be aggressive and own the stage and then he would disappear. >> what would you -- >> his best performances was when he forced everyone else to attack him and the way he brushed off jeb when jeb tried to stand up to him and not that

good moment or when chris christie went after rubio and this is where i thought he would make an effort to push. >> let's ask the next question. what's the best hillary clinton debate moment you can remember over 16 years of her being in public office? >> her best moment? i mean, obviously her best debate performance was the rick lazio meltdown in 2000. >> that was her handing her a piece of paper. >> she -- i mean everything -- you look at it and it was a strong moment for her. >> going back 16 years. >> i think it was -- >> i don't think she's much better at debating than he is. >> barack obama wasn't a great debater. john edwards would win those. he would "shine" more.

joe biden would shine more in the group debates. >> it was amazing. chris dodd and joe biden won each one of those democratic debates by a mile. >> joe, you know, somebody who is very smart and watching this process closely pointed out to me is there's a parallel to 1980. voters were sure they didn't want to elect jimmy carter but they weren't sure about ronald reagan and in those debates, ronald reagan gave them a reason to trust him. that's what hillary clinton needs to do. that's the analogy. over the course of these debates, she has to get americans to say, okay, despite my reservations about her trustworthiness and everything else, i feel okay voting for her. >> it's the reverse reagan. it's hillary that has more opportunity here. a majority have said no trump but they're not yet -- just like

a majority said no carter. this is peter's theory. reagan -- it was about reagan meeting a threshold and for voters here it's most people want to use the analogy as a trump thing rather than a hillary thing. >> that's intriguing. >> i think i'm watching these polls right now and watching her -- whenever trump has a bad moment, she benefits. i think that does tell you she's the one that has more elasticity. meaning, you have more room to grow. trump has yet to show he has his best three weeks and still never crossed 45 in any poll. maybe 46. she has shown there are enough reluctant voters for her to get her into 50, 51 on her best day. he hasn't done that. >> gary johnson point. if gary johnson were in the

debates, it would make all the difference in the world. bill clinton got 43% of the vote. 43% back in 1992. >> biggest strategic mistake trump people made was pushing johnson away. >> that's all you pick up from people. in new hampshire over the weekend, all you pick up from people is the reverse reagan thing with hillary clinton. will she give the voter a sign, okay, fine, what she did now, what she said now, i'll vote for her. >> a small chunk of voters are going every time she gets too big of a lead that it's, like, whoa, we don't want you to think you have a massive mandate. we may hand you keys to the presidency but you have to remember why we're giving you the keys because we're keeping keys away from him. we don't want you to think this is a big mandate. >> that's why when you talk to pollster, you realize she won't win in landslide. for starters, we don't have

landslides in the presidential popular vote anymore. and second of all, it's this weird psychological phenomenon where voters punish her for success. if she gets too far ahead, she hasn't earned that. i'm not going to vote for her. >> help us on debate prep. is it going to be kellyanne and steve bannon taking the lead there? >> yes and no. kellyanne has been important in debate prep. but having spent a lot of time with trump last week and talking to his people the last few days, my sense is that at the end of the day this is donald trump and he's going to be a reactive presence on this debate stage. very unpredictable. it's going to be going by his gut. how does he feel secretary clinton is interacting with him and how lester holt is coming at him or not. >> he's critical of mitt romney for preparing for those debates.

he was so tightly wound that he froze up on stage. he won't do that level of preparation. just be himself. >> he's a tv producer. remember. he is a tv producer. >> we all are on tv and we all have to do what works for us. if you go into something without a certain level of knowledge, you either prepare for it or you embarrass yourself. >> another possible theory is that he's sort of playing in the expectations game. >> he's trying that. >> but this notion that there's no formal prep. i think he knows exactly what he's going to do. he's locked and loaded on his clinton attack lines. i don't really accept that she has the opportunity for a reagan moment. reagan was unknown and had an opportunity to stand there and fill the suit. she's well known and i don't see that. i think -- listen, i think the opportunity is more that he stands there and looks plausible. >> i agree. >> it's a peter hart theory.

it's reverse reagan theory here. >> i disagree with that only because more than any election probably since 1980, this is a change election. >> 55% of voters want change. >> they want change. they want an excuse to vote for the guy that represents change and believe they can do that without him leading us to a nuclear winter. that's basically what ronald reagan in 1980 -- in '80, people don't remember, i know you do, mike, that the things that were written about ronald reagan about him starting world war iii, him starting a nuclear war, all disarmed when he said there you go again when jimmy carter accused him of warmongering. >> i think this 90 minutes is important. voters will look at it and this is where i think that -- i think they do have equal opportunities here. i don't buy the opportunity that one bar is lower than the other because they have different challenges.

she's got a trustworthy challenge. he has a temperament challenge. both can be overcome with a strong 90-minute performance. who is more likely to send a message to voters, okay, who can i stand in that job for -- the full 90 minutes will be a big deal. there will be times where 20 minutes of trump will feel fine but does 90 minutes of him wear well? there's an argument she doesn't wear well over time. >> we have two new quantities. we won't learn more about them. it's image of them standing there. >> concentrated time on policy for the first time though. we haven't had that. >> or not. trump doesn't play by the rules or not. i think we get played when we assume the theory of the case is that he's going to stand there and respect the moderator and follow the rules. >> let me say that i said

earlier today it was up to hillary clinton. if he doesn't play by the rules for her to not play by the rules. it's the same thing with lester holt. i thought it was funny. lester is a democratic. lester is a liberal. all this other stuff. he's a registered republican in new york or something like that. >> what trump is doing is so ham handed. this whole attack moderators and work refs is ridiculous. >> it's up to lester to just keep hammering and not to put himself in the middle of it but if he doesn't answer the question, keep after it. i guess -- >> this debate is not about lester. it's about donald trump and hillary clinton. let's remember this. >> trump might make it -- >> moderators are extraordinarily important. so, yes, it is about lester and about the candidates and it is about does donald trump getting too on stage and completely blow through all of the guard rails.

>> i'm with you on -- it's up to hillary clinton. if he's going to flout the rules, this becomes the challenge and this is probably why she's spending more time in prep. this is where i think he'll regret not doing prep. they're throwing every fastball. they're going to hit her with everything. the nastiest stuff. it won't be new to her. i think they're expecting the kitchen sink. so i think if trump is really not prepping well, he may regret it. >> on the lester front, there's been this great debate out there that you need to be the fact checker. no. chris wallace said i'm not a fact checker. i totally agree with that. >> there's a line. we know the line. factual stuff is on policy and all this stuff. the wordings and stuff belongs to the candidates. i think that everybody is --

there are so many back seat drivers for poor lester here. good grief. leave the man alone. it's about trump and clinton at the end of the day. not about any of the moderators. if the moderators are the story after the debate, that's the disservice. that's either the candidates or the campaigns wanting to deflect on bad performances or whatever. we can't take eyes off the two candidates. >> of course. i'm just saying that it's going to be, you know, nobody is really moderated a wrestling match in presidential -- >> the refs were always paid off in vince mcmahon world. that's what trump wishes he had. >> of course. >> chuck, thanks. good to see you. robert costa, jeremy peters, thank you as well. still ahead on "morning joe." >> i'm deeply sorry that we failed to fulfill our responsibility to our customers, to our team members and to the american public.

i accept full responsibility for all unethical sales practices in our retail banking business. and i am fully committed to fixing this issue. >> you'll be shocked to hear that sorry, that apology, didn't quite cut it for senator elizabeth warren. we'll play her withering criticism of the ceo of wells fargo after the bank created thousands of fake accounts and angela merkel admits major mistakes over handling of the refugee crisis. >> you don't say. >> we'll talk to senator murphy about how to help refugees amid widespread concern over safety and the economy. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. hey what's up, peyt? you know i've got directv nfl sunday ticket - i get ery game, every sunday. all in hd. yeah. i know that. so you want to come over? i'll make nachos. i can't right now, man. i'm playing.

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because after all... we should fit into your life. [ laughing ] not the other way around. [ clock ticking ] >> i've been saying this for a long time. this didn't just happen, like, yesterday. immigration security is national security. now obama wants to bring in as of two days ago an additional 110,000 refugees and hillary

wants -- i mean, honestly, honestly, it's hard to believe. all together hillary clinton's plan would bring in 620,000 refugees in her first term alone with no effective way to screen or vet them. her plan would cost $400 billion in terms of lifetime welfare and entitlement costs. this isn't just a matter of terrorism but also a matter of quality of life. >> that's donald trump yesterday on what he says the terror threat posed by refugees. joining us now, democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut. you know, chris, always good to see you. when donald trump talked about an immigration policy that was more representative of american values, he lives in new york. you want to know what american

values are, immigration, just go to the statue of liberty, right? >> this country was founded by religious refugees. we are all the sons and daughters and grandkids of people fleeing from economic persecution or religious persecution or political persecution so he misunderstands the nature of this country. listen, when you go to the middle east what you hear is that nobody there thinks that we are really a partner in trying to unwind the crisis in syria when we're only taking 10,000 refug refugees. angela merkel is taking a beating in germany because they accepted 1 million refugees. we don't need to accept a million but nobody thinks we're a true partner in trying to fix syria when we're saying everybody else has to deal with consequences of this refee problem except for us and refugees are destabilizing all sorts of other countries in and around the region. the next crisis may be lebanon.

we may be talking about dropping bombs in lebanon because we're not doing anything to help that country deal with the millions of refugees that are flowing into that country and others. >> you're a child of immigrants. >> i'm an immigrant myself of a political refugee. >> give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to live free, i lift my lamp beside the golden door that defined american values when it comes to immigration now. >> in fact, when we moved to this country in 1980, the u.s. had the least amount of wait time compared to other western countries like canada and australia. i just returned from a trip to germany and met with business leaders there that were disappointed in angela merkel's unilateral decision in admitting refugees and say this time is

different. they say that muslim refugees, the vast number of men in their country now will be different. they can't integrate into society. what is your response to that when americans pose the same question here. >> i would just tell them to look at the american experience. we've been told over and over again in this country that waves of irish or italian or german immigrants will not be able to assimilate into this country, pose a threat. the history of our country has been a lot of people being very uncomfortable about new waves of immigrants and what has happened here? they have been able to assimilate. they've been able to retain a part of their cultural heritage and make this country stronger. this moment is new for germany. angela merkel is doing this because she sees an enormous economic liability in germany by

an ageing population and understands the economic future greatness of america comes in our country remain young because of our history, because of our practice of immigration. this is an important economic strategic play for merkel. i hope that they'll look to our experience to understand how this plays out in the long run. >> senator, one of the issues that i think bother a lot of people is the misinformation that's out there about the vetting process of immigrants. a lot of people have the impression because they've been misled by so many politicians including one of the specific candidates for president that you can get on plane in afghanistan or syria and come directly to the united states. what is the vetting process? tell people what the vetting process is. >> so there is no immigrant that goes through a tougher, stricter vetting screen than those coming as refugees. that means that their names are checked through multiple data bases. that means they are gone through

exhaustive interviewing process and that also means that we're largely taking women and children through the refugee process. this idea that political refugees to this country are young males is false. you're talking 80%, 90% of the refugees that come here are not military age males. the reality is that we do have some problems in our immigration system. right now if you're coming from europe, you're getting almost no screen. so some of us want to beef up the screening we do for people coming from countries that are in the visa waiver program. political refugees are people who have experienced the worst terror and torture that exists in syria and are going through a very tough vet before they get here. >> senator murphy, i want to ask you about the ongoing crisis that's forcing so many of these refugees out of syria. latest incident which is bombing of the aid convoy inside syria, ben rhodes said in plain english

yesterday that russia was behind the bombing. do you agree with his assessment? >> i certainly trust our intelligence assessments. i don't know whether this is purposeful or accidental. listen. this is a conflict that is seemingly getting worse and not better. from the very beginning some of us have asked a very simple question, which is will u.s. arms and a greater u.s. military footprint make this situation better or will it simply prompt the iranians and the russians to dive into the conflict deeper? i know everybody wants to believe that there's an american military solution to every conflict around the globe. in syria it may be that a greater u.s. military footprint there is simply drawing more and more weapons and armies and interest from other outside players and i think it's time for us to step back and reassess our military strategy in syria. >> would it have been different five years ago if the united

states had stepped in? >> i reject the idea there was this magical moment in which the united states could have sort of picked the right moment to pinprick the so-called moderate opposition with military support. the reality is the iranians and the russians were going to do whatever is necessary to keep assad in power and no matter when the united states decided to try to put arms or weapons or airplanes there, this was going to be a bloody long conflict. one in which u.s. military support may prolong not shorten. >> every day another atrocity there. senator chris murphy of connecticut, thank you so much. ahead we'll bring in a member of the syrian opposition with her take on the war in her country now more than five years on.

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last month like all of us, we saw the heartbreaking image of the 5 year old in aleppo, syria, sitting in that ambulance, silent and in shock trying to wipe the blood from his hands. here in new york, alex just 6 years old, sat down and wrote me a letter. he said he wanted him to come live with him and his family. since he won't bring toys, alex wrote, i'll share my bike, and i will teach him out to write it. i will teach him addition and subtraction. my little sister will be collecting butterflies and fireflies for him. we can all play together.

we will give him a family, and he will be our brother. those are the words of a 6-year-old boy. he teaches us a lot. >> that's president obama yesterday reading part of a letter he received from a 6-year-old american boy. joining us now, a member of the syrian opposition high negotiations committee and the co-founder and executive director of the arab reform initiative, thank you for being with us this morning. >> good morning. >> you are here in new york with the unga. what are you asking of the world and the united states? what do you need? >> most importantly, a commitment on guarantees for any agreement that comes up. we have seen a cessation of hostilities declared but we have seen no guarantees articulated. we need guarantees articulated to say if women and children are bombed again in spite of the agreement, what will you do? that's where we're looking at

credible guarantees? >> from whom? from the united statnations? from the united states? >> leadership needs to come from this country in particular and that other countries are willing and determined to do something but there's russia in the game and when russia is in the game, you cannot really mobilize other countries alone. you need to have the united states. >> are you disappointed by the united states' failure to step forward and stop this humanitarian crisis? >> we have sought credible attitudes, behavior, policy from this country. we have sought to work with it on negotiations, on cooperative frameworks and none of that so far is working because all of this relies on good faith from russia. the good faith of the regime. the trustworthiness of iran. and all these three parties are simply untrustworthy. >> were you shocked that the

united states didn't step forward when assad crossed that red line. >> that was -- people were shattered. and what you can tell to syrians today is do we have friends out there who care about the lives of children and women who died, suffocated with chemical weapons and that now the use of chemical weapons is back again in syria by the regime in spite of him claiming that he dismantled his arsenal and we are back to counting on russia to get him to behave, to reign him in. is mr. putin, who is our powerful world leader, out there looking to impress everyone? >> do you agree that it was vladimir putin's air force that actually blew up the convoy? >> well, i'm happy to hear that this is announced if that is the

intelligence that is provided then announcing it is a good thing. what next? what exactly will happen next? will russia apologize as the u.s. has apologized? >> no. they denied it. >> there we are. there will be no apology. we are used to indiscriminate bombing by russia. this is too much by the international community. it's usual for the syrian people. we've been undergoing this for all these years. the point here is who is going to lead a movement that says enough is enough? >> you live it. we see it on american television. we read about it in the newspapers. there was obviously the attack on the relief convoy yesterday. in eastern aleppo according to you, nearly three quarters of a million people are still living in eastern aleppo where bombings take place almost on a daily basis. could you give us a picture of the status of the availability of food, water, and medicine in

eastern aleppo? >> well, prices soared suddenly when the city was besieged. that's about three weeks ago. entirely besieged. one road still open. it was closed. so prices obviously jumped. now scarcity is hitting and that is bread is the most important of course food. part of what people need and then medical supplies. medical supplies are absolutely critical because the rate of death rises because people cannot be treated for very ordinary illnesses and diseases. so this is where the concern is. you can get -- aleppo is very big of course. it's a huge city. you can get some food into there but you cannot get enough and it is less and less available for poor people. the poorer you are, the first will suffer are poorest.

women and children are underfed. baby milk is always a considerable issue. and medical supplies. >> we were told earlier today by a foreign policy leader that the bombing of the convoy was actually strategic for the russians because starvation plays such an important role in these sort of sieges of places like aleppo. i wonder, are you all asking the world community to do what truman ordered back in '48 and '49 when berlin was blockaded, some sort of an air lift? >> look, you don't need air lift. what you can simply do is if you bomb again, there will be consequences. there will be -- for noncompliance there's some form of punishment. i think this is enough. this is enough to get the regime to change its attitude and

russia. we thought this was just the regime. we see that russia condones and is complicit of this policy. >> wants to starve children in aleppo. that is their strategy. to starve children in aleppo. >> it is to starve the population so it surrenders and the population in other areas after 4 1/2 years of siege and total blockade of cities where people are eating grass end up saying some of us want to give up. some of us want to surrender. they call that local truces. as if this is a truce really. so starvation is an integral part of the strategy here both by the regime as well as russia. >> how betrayed do you feel by the international community? i remember back in the 1980s there was a book called abandonment of the jews how the west and world ignored what was

going on at the nazi death camps until it was too late. can you describe how you feel being abandoned by the west and the world and the united nations while your people eat grass, while your children are firebombed? while your country descends into hell and nobody does anything about it? >> unfortunately what it does, it tells people you have no allies out there. only find those who can defend you and those who can defend you are not good guys. we don't want those bad guys. what we want is really to get civilian life back to these areas. people organize remarkably. they set up local council. they distribute bread to houses. they organize their life in spite of everything going on. they want to live. they're asking for life. they're asking for the right to life. that's what syrians want to do.

they want a united country and they want to live. that's what they are asking for. they would like to go home. many of those refugees who left would really love to come home. >> thank you for painting this picture of your country for our audience. let's hope people at the united nations heed your call. thank you so much. >> thank you for being here. >> "morning joe" is coming right back. d again ♪ [ front assist sounds ] [ music stops ] [ girl laughs ] ♪ on the road again ♪ like a band of gypsies we go down the highway ♪ [ beetle horn honks ] no matter which passat you choose, you get more standard features, for less than you expected. hurry in and lease for just $199 a month.

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still ahead this morning we continue to follow breaking news overnight from charlotte, north carolina, protests after police shoot and kill a man while trying to serve a warrant on another. and new information from

tulsa after video shows police shooting an unarmed man while his hands were in the air. now the officer who pulled the trigger is telling her side of the story. plus, when it comes to ad spending, hillary clinton is out spending donald trump five to one but her cash advantage so far has not helped her shake trump in the polls. clinton campaign manager robby mook will join us live from campaign headquarters in brooklyn. all of that and more when "morning joe" comes right back. if you try to write, on a plain old mac the difference can be seen (it doesn't work) get the surface pro (the keyboard detaches from the screen) get the surface pro (i like the blue!) rry, captain obvious. don't be. i've got the hotels.com app, which makes it simple to book a room for $500.

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good morning. welcome back to "morning joe." it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. 5:00 on the west coast. mika has the morning off.

with us, we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor, mike barnacle. >> you know that's right. >> we have former communication director for president george w. bush, nicole wallace. what do we do? the palin thing never took off. >> you don't think? they made a movie about it. took off fine. >> and richard haas. let's start with willie geist. the city of charlotte, north carolina, is on edge after violent protests erupted after the deadly police shooting of an african-american man. more than 200 demonstrators gathered last night carrying signs and in some cases verbally taunting officers in riot gear and physically as well throwing rocks according to an nbc producer on the scene. authorities say officers used flash bangs and tear gas to disperse the crowd.

12 officers were hurt including one struck in the face by a rock. the unrest began quickly spreading after news of the death of 43-year-old keith lamont scott. police say they were serving a warrant on another man yesterday afternoon at an apartment complex when they came upon scott in his car. >> at this point all we know is they're in the apartment complex parking lot and this subject gets out with a weapon. they engage him and one of the officers felt a lethal threat and fired his weapon because of that. >> a social media post by a woman who said she is the daughter of scott said he was unarmed and disabled. a police source confirmed to the charlotte observer, the local newspaper there, that both the man who died and the police officer who shot him were african-american. let's bring in nbc news correspondent chris clackum live in charlotte for the latest on a violent night there. >> reporter: willie, good morning. protesters remain in the streets

well into the early morning hours following the shooting of an african-american man who police say was armed and dangerous but family members say was disabled and carrying nothing more than a book. chaos erupting overnight in charlotte, north carolina. after a 43-year-old blackman was fatally shot by police at an apartment complex. >> we've got shots fired. one suspect down. legacy court. all officers at 10-4, we have one suspect down. >> reporter: officers were trying to serve a warrant to a different man tuesday afternoon when they encountered keith lamont scott who they say was armed. >> as they engaged him, he is armed with a handgun that we found on scene as well. makes some imminent threat to them and because of that at least one of our officers fired rounds at the subject shooting him. >> reporter: news of scott's death spread quickly sparking protests near the site of the

shooting. >> no justice, no peace. >> reporter: demonstrators faced off with police wearing riot gear. >> why do you have gas masks? i don't have gas mask. >> reporter: clashing with officers. >> they're jumping on top of cars, stopping traffic. and they've got the entire intersection blocked. we're going to need units down here really quick. >> reporter: members of scott's family tell local news outlets that he was not armed. instead they say he had been clutching a book while waiting to pick up a child after school. a woman who has been identified as a family member of the victim had this to say. >> he didn't have no gun. he wasn't messing with nobody. they jumped out their truck. they said hands up. he got a gun. he got a gun, pow, pow, pow, pow. that's it. >> reporter: officials say at least a dozen officers suffered nonlife threatening injuries during the protest. the police officer who shot scott was identified tuesday night as brently benson, the

two-year veteran of the police department who was also african-american has been placed on administrative leave pending an investigation. in charlotte, north carolina, i'm chris clackum, nbc news. willie, back to you. >> nbc's chris clackum, thanks so much. conflicting reports there about whether or not mr. scott was armed. his family saying he was not. police saying they recovered a weapon. >> and in tulsa, i mean, my gosh. that footage, tulsa footage. >> haunting. >> the tulsa footage is just shocking. >> so hundreds of protesters in downtown tulsa, oklahoma, calling for the arrest of officer betty sheldon. she is the police officer who fatally shot 40-year-old terrance crutcher. unarmed african-american man and father of four. now there are duelling interpretations of the dramatic video released. we're hearing the officer's side of the story for the first time. nbc's gabe gutierrez has new details. >> reporter: with terence

crutcher's suv stopped in the middle of the road, a 911 caller wasn't sure what to make of him. >> reporter: officers. i shot a subject, he won't show me his hands. >> reporter: they say he ignored his commands. an officer in the chopper who can't be heard by the officers on the ground. >> that looks like a bad dude, too. got to be on something. >> reporter: seconds later one deploys his taser, one fires her gun. that officer betty shelby is on paid leave. she joined the tulsa police department five years ago. >> she said she was never this scared. >> reporter: her lawyer says he was acting erratically. they said they thought he was trying to reach inside his vehicle. >> she clearly believed him to be under the influence of some type of narcotic, possibly pcp because she is a drug recognition expert. >> reporter: they cite the lead investigator that a vile of pcp

was found in the suv. toxicology reports are not finished and no weapon was found. >> you can see the video shows crutcher wasn't reaching inside the vehicle because his window was up. >> it shows that this department, like many police departments around america, see people of color as criminals or as suspects but not as american citizens. >> reporter: the district attorney is now reviewing the case to see if any criminal charges should be filed. >> so we're looking at two different cases this morning, the one in tulsa, oklahoma, and the one in charlotte. >> the one in tulsa though, the guy is walking slowly back. looks like he's on pcp? >> who cares? his hands are in the air the whole time. >> he's walking slowly. >> when your hands are up here. >> he looks like he was on cough syrup. walking slowly back to the car. his hands were in the air. he does absolutely everything that police would tell you to do. look at that. hands in the air.

legs spread. the window is closed. and then they shoot him. and, by the way -- >> one, two, three, four -- >> who's in the helicopter, four cops? who's in the helicopter saying this guy looks like a bad dude. the guy looks like he's on something. the guy is walking slowly. >> that comment from the helicopter confirms every suspicion african-americans have in this country about the way police look at them. they see an african-american man walking down the road and they call him a bad dude. >> look at the really flashy sports car. oh, wait he's driving, what is that, an suv. >> a family suv. >> khakis. >> it's pathetic. in katys, a t-shirt. his arms are in the air, all right? you know -- >> you have three police officers, guns drawn, weapons drawn at the rear five feet from the rear of the automobile and one of them we're told just

now -- >> look at that. >> -- the police officers defense counsel that she is a drug recognition expert. so fully eight feet, ten feet away from the supposed, you know, person on pcp. >> drug recognition. >> let's go through these. stop it. let's go through these. ferguson, we didn't have a camera on there. we didn't know exactly what was going on. it was a he said/she said situation. baltimore, we saw -- we saw what happened to freddie gray on the ground but we never -- we don't know what happened in the back and, again, it's two different accounts. and so you go one after another after another. >> eric gardner. >> eric gardner was just pathetic and sickening and the morning it happened we said those officers should be arrested and put in jail. black and white. this is black and white. this is black and white. you know what, there is -- there -- there -- everybody --

there needs to be due process. it needs to go through the proper steps, but i'll tell you what, this better not be an inside job in tulsa. this better not be an inside job. they better have an independent prosecutor, somebody from outside that district that does not work with the police department day in and day out getting bad guys off the street. it better be independent and there better be justice here. it's -- it's pretty shocking. >> all right. we'll be all over that story all morning. we'll keep you updated as we learn more. let's move to politics. donald trump was in north carolina where an elon university poll shows his campaign coming back to life. donald trump is tied with hillary clinton among likely voters, 44 to 43. 6% going to gary johnson. tightening race in florida where clinton's race has shrunk to five points in monmouth university poll. 46% to trump's 41%.

>> we've soon some polls that have shown that race closer. >> yes. >> there i would think probably, nicole, given all the polls over the past week, if you're in the clinton campaign, you're okay with a five point lead in florida right now given all the bad news you've gotten last week? >> yeah. i think they probably woke up yesterday and felt okay about taking a day off the trail for debate prep. they had the national poll showing them up 5 and then the week before. she had probably the worst post labor day launch out of any general election candidate who was in the lead all summer that i can remember, but she seems to have righted the ship. >> you know florida. i know florida. this is what i don't understand. i see polls that show them split. i understand pennsylvania. >> yeah. >> i understand some of these states that are wider. i've never understood how a state with as many hispanic voters could be tied, for instance. i mean, you just go through the i-4 corridor.

you look at a lot of puerto rico can immigrants that are not voting for donald trump. >> he wiped out two of florida's favorite sons, jeb bush, marco rubio, i think for a short term he paid a bit of a price for an extremely toxic primary there in the same way that i think his weakness in arizona is because of his very toxic fight with two republican senators who i think have approval ratings in the 90s, jeff lake, john mccain. he has surprising strength in florida beyond the panhandle. >> my familiarity with florida is restricted to lee county. >> right. >> i have to tell you this, my instinct about lee county is he could carry 60% of the voters. >> yeah, i agree. i agree with you. >> he's going to do extremely well in north florida. he's going to do extremely well in southwest florida. democrats are going to do extremely well on the gold coast of east florida in which we republicans for years have

called the killing fields. we have. if you get out of dade, broward and palm beach county -- >> four blocks in miami. >> other than that -- >> yeah. if we get out of those three counties and you're down 300,000 votes. >> you're psyched. >> i knew w was going to win in 2004 because he only lost in the killing fields by 250, 300,000 votes and then it's the i-4 corridor. >> right. >> again, it's such a diverse state. >> right. >> this is a state -- >> obama won twice. >> if i'm hillary clinton and donald trump is ahead in any polls in florida, i'm in trouble. >> and for donald trump's part -- >> i agree. >> of course, she's ahead 5 now. i'm just saying there are polls that show it closer. >> a week ago it was closer. >> you cannot draw a winning map for donald trump without florida. >> no. >> it's just not there. if you take that off the map, you have to pull some magic in states that he's not going to win. he has to win florida. >> he has to win. >> he's close but he has to spend a lot of time there over

the next 50 days. >> if he wins florida, that's indicative of something much larger that he's broken out of the stereotype of just getting high school white dudes that, you know, watch wrestling, you know, which is what the media likes to say. you know, that's basically -- those are who -- >> you described my high school years, by the way. >> describing me. >> currently. >> all of my friends currently. exactly. so trump's always promised, willie, going to expand the map, win here, there. new york. we're not buying it. but, some evidence that he could win a state republicans haven't won since 1988. >> take a look at maine. has not voted for a republican in the presidential election since 1988. clinton and trump are tied in the four-way race at 37. clinton would lead in a two-way race 45-40. in a state that splits it's electoral votes trump is poised to pick up one holding an 11 point lead in maine's northern second district where president obama won in 2012 by 8 points.

>> wow. that's pretty crazy. >> he pulled out a swing. >> that's a big swing. almost a 20 point swing in the north -- north in the state. >> sanchez what we call it. >> yeah. yeah. i don't know what that means, but it sounds dirty so i'm going to stay away from it. >> too early. >> that's a 20 point swing. it's also, again, i don't mean to make it all about race, but you look at demographics, demographics is destiny. it's a very, very white state. >> her weakness now is pretty well-documented among white working class voters and his strength is as well. >> that's what it is. >> structural. >> aroostook county, it's been decimated economically for the past 10, 15 years. people feel totally removed, disenfranchised by the government. >> yeah. >> it's not a surprise that he's going to do well up there. still ahead on "morning joe," hillary clinton's out with an op ed in today's "new york times," it's entitled "my plan

for helping america's poor." we'll talk to robby mook about her vision and why it's been a challenge to win over white voters and low income brackets. what donald trump's pole numbers have to do about his foundation and how it was spending money. we're going to dig into that. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. i served in iraq in tikrit in 2009. when i took the ancestry dna test, i mean a few results came up that were really shocking. 11% of me comes from the part where i had served. we all come from such different backgrounds that you never know.

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presidential debates and post debate -- >> consequences. >> it's hard telling the camp -- >> we better move on. >> especially a president he may not have done well. >> but the good ones, the ones that win re-election adjust zpl

ye . >> yeah. yeah. >> let me say the point of our conversation was about a candidate with a good sense of humor and you can almost look back at people that win. it is often the one with the better sense of humor. i don't know what that says about this race but -- >> let's look at donald trump's sense of humor. >> well, i mean, what does that say? well, president trump will be fighting back against a report today. >> they are. the campaign is pushing back about whether the charity deals in self dealing. they're saying they used $258,000 to settle legal disputes for potential violation of self-dealing rules prohibiting nonprofit leaders using charity money to benefit themselves or their businesses. at issue are four donations. it's said one settled unpaid fines from the town of palm

beach, florida, over the height of a flag pole at trump's marlago club. another resolved a dispute over a hole in one contest at trump national -- >> okay. we can stop here. we can stop here. i often said during impeachment that, you know, you look at these things and how would the rest -- you know, you lie in a federal grand jury, you get sent to jail, all right? you spend $158,000 from a charity for a dispute on a hole in one, you get sent to jail. these are the sort of things where americans -- if i did that, i would -- i would -- i would be getting a criminal lawyer. i mean, if that's true, willie, that's crazy. >> over a hole in one contest. this is a -- front page of the washington post. >> pulitzer prize. >> i agree. >> i bet he's going to get a pulitzer prize for this work.

>> his reporting goes on. 2013 donation bought an ad in a gala program that was an advertisement for trump hotels and a $10,000 check purchased a portrait of trump at a charity auction the washington post reported trump did not respond whether it was ever used for a charitable purpose. >> did is looking for this portrait? >> i think he's trying to track down the 6 foot tall one. >> now that one's in your bathroom, in your huge -- i mean, willie has this bathroom that's like -- it's all marble, like 14 feet ceilings. >> yeah. yeah. >> on one side -- that's an awesome one. >> we bought the apartment upstairs, blew out the floor. for the portraits. >> you had it there in '09, but apparently you passed it on. >> after the crash i sold it. money got tight. i had to sell my trump portrait. >> started a fight. >> so anyhow, after the story

was posted readers sent reporter david ferenhold a picture of the picture in the club at doral. >> pence responded. >> what we found is there are a number of factual errors in that story as there were in previous stories about the trump foundation. i'm confident they'll be able to address those and demonstrate that they fully complied with the law. >> do you know what the factual errors are that the campaign is alleging in the washington post story? >> well, i think the foundation will be able to lay those out. there were errors in the previous washington post stories. >> mike perns gets combat pay, by the way. >> he did a good job. >> i was critical of that selection. he -- he does -- i mean, he's perfect for that position. he does an extraordinary job, i mean, doing the best he can.

>> just takes shrapnel all day. the whole interview -- >> he does. he picks it out at the end of the day. okay, tomorrow's another day. >> the whole interview was good in that pence just sort of seems to understand the problems but really does come back with, like you said, the best possible defense of donald trump. >> he does the best he can do. >> the best answer to that questi go with the holes in the washington pt story. in a written statement, in typical washington post fashion, they've gotten their facts wrong. it is the clinton foundation that is set up to make sure the clintons personally enrich themselves. the trump foundation has no paid board, no management fees, no rent, no overhead and no family members on their payroll. there was not or could not be any intent or motive for the trump foundation to make improper payments. the post reporting is peppered with inaccuracies and omissions from a biased reporter though it does not detail what those supposed inaccuracies are. >> they also apparently have no accountant and lawyer familiar with the laws governing, you

know, foundations and what you do with foundation money. >> right. >> come on, we all know. you can't use foundation money to pay off lawsuits, to pay off disputes, to buy portraits of yourself. you just can't do it. >> there is the hole in one contest loophole. >> if it's in doral resort, i mean, that's -- again, that's self-dealing. you buy a portrait for $10,000 with foundation money and then you put it in -- i don't know. >> the post recently reported trump retooled his charity to use other people's money and has not donated to it since 2008. as a matter of disclosure, parent company nbc universal made a half million donation in 2012. trump spoke of his fondness of using other people's money when approaching the crisis in syria. >> we're going to get the gulf states to pay for safe zones. we're going to lead the project. it's called opm. it's called other people's money.

there's nothing like doing things with other people's money because it takes the risk. you get a good chunk of it and it takes the risk. we're going to do this in this case from a humanitarian standpoint. opm, other people's money. >> you know, it's bad when he's got it down to three letters, opm. >> got to see those tax returns. >> you're never going to. >> got to see his tax returns. coming up on "morning joe" -- >> binding ourselves to international rules over the long term enhances our security, and i think that's not just true for us. if russia continues to interfere in the affairs of its neighbors, it may be popular at home, it may fuel national list fervor for a time but over time it will diminish its stature and make its borders less secure. david ignatius said president obama has a vision to lead the world four years too late.

but president obama did pull few punches in his final u.n. address. we have rick stengel joining us next about a busy day for the world's top leaders. 98,352 what's that? the number of units we'll make next month to maximize earnings. thno, it's a fact.n. based on hundreds of proprietary and open data sets folded into a real-time, actionable analytics model. nine. eight. three. five. two. you're not gonna round that up? you don't round up facts. powerful analytics driving decisions for the world's most valuable brands. hewlett packard enterprise.

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let's go to the clinton campaign headquarters in brooklyn, new york. hillary clinton's campaign manager robby mook is here.

we hope you're not offended. brangelina, how sad are you about that? >> i'm notoriously known for my lack of popular culture. >> that's a dodge, robby. you just can't answer the question. >> i don't know. >> i swear to god. so -- so serving incident on september 11th, obviously disturbing to you. everybody who cares for secretary clinton. has that changed the way you guys are going to be dealing with the press moving forward? >> actually, i think we've been really happy with our relationship with the press. as you know, she's been doing regular avails on her plane. >> i know. not as straightforward as maybe you should have in the very beginning about the pneumonia diagnosis. people said that was indicative of a much bigger problem, sort of this veil of secrecy. >> you know, i just don't think

so. as i said that day, we said that day, we wish we had gotten that information out a little bit more quickly. that's on us as a staff on the campaign, but, you know, she's rested up. she's back on the road. >> yeah. >> we're happy to be doing those avails every day. donald trump is not doing that. and we're feeling really good about that. >> so from brangelina to pneumonia to george h.w. bush. has secretary clinton had any conversations with george h.w. bush about his endorsement of her? >> not at all. you know, i think this is indicative of what's going on more broadly with donald trump. we're seeing republican after republican. we've had many senators express that they simply cannot support him. he has a problem at the core of his base, and they continue to be alienated because they realize he is unfit and unqualified to be our next commander in chief. >> willey, not only the republican president, republican vice president and also the head of the rnc under richard nixon

voting for a democrat. >> lining up although president george h.w. bush's office came out and said he did not say what he is alleged to have said and he's not talked publicly. >> right. yeah. exactly. >> i want to turn robby to foreign policy. we had an an hour ago one of the leaders of the syrian opposition. she's in town for the unga. she painted about as bleak a picture of what's happening inside that country as you can imagine, particularly in the city of aleppo. hillary clinton was secretary of state when this crisis began. what's her biggest regret about the way syria's been handled? >> well, obviously she's been out of office for some time now. >> she was there when it started. yeah. >> well, right, but, you know, she -- i think she's well regarded for her leadership as secretary of state. she came out of that office with a 70% approval rating. she in contrast to donald trump has released a clear and

decisive plan to defeat isis. donald trump has said that he thinks he knows more about it than the generals and refuses to tell us what his secret plan is. >> i understand, robby. what about in syria, though? she supported the drawings of the red line. obviously she was out of her office when assad used chemical weapons. was it a mistake to draw the red line if the president was not willing to go -- to do something about it when it was crossed? >> well, as you pointed out, the decision regarding that was made after she was out of office so i think you'd have to ask president obama. >> was she disappointed that the president didn't act when the line was crossed? >> i think you'd have to ask her about that question, how she would characterize it. >> you're here to speak for her, robby. would you care to discuss that? >> look, what matters is what she is going to do as president. as i said, she has a clear plan to defeat isis. donald trump does not. it's a secret. he won't tell anybody what it is and he says he knows more than the generals. i think the choice is clear. >> day one in office, robby,

what does she do in regards to syria? >> first of all, she needs to -- she has said she will work with our allies to dismantle their safe harbor in syria and iraq. she will harden our defenses here at home and she will dismantle their network around the world and a lot of that is going to happen in cyber space and through digital communications. so you can go on our website and read the full plan there. >> so, robby, we do realize that you are not secretary of state, but in the debate next monday evening how would secretary clinton respond to somewhat of a version of the following question, we've had a relief convoy bombed, potentially a war crime, leading into aleppo. what would you do, secretary clinton, about providing food, water, and medicine to the citizens of eastern aleppo today, right now, differently

than what the obama administration is doing? what would she do differently? >> again, i think you're going to have to ask her that question. that's a matter of policy and i'm going to leave it for her. >> we love you, buddy, but what are you here for if you can't answer basic questions? i mean, i don't know if there's a -- i mean, we may be tiptoeing into gary johnson territory here if you don't know the answer to that basic of a question. what is the response to aleppo? then why do we have you here? >> i think -- look, you're asking new policy questions. you would have to ask the secretary. >> new? aleppo's been around for -- syria's been around for some time. the red line being drawn has been around for some time. i'm not being difficult here at all. these are basic questions. >> and i'm not being difficult either. i'm simply saying that she has laid out a plan to defeat isis and if there are new questions pertaining to aleppo, i'm going to need to let her answer those, and she will answer those in the

debate and we look forward to her having the opportunity to do that. and as i said, donald trump has been able -- unable, rather, to release a plan and we hope that he will reveal what his plans are in the debate. >> robby, let me move on to another topic, and that's the economy. with regards to our role as a global player, a lot of business leaders here and abroad are concerned about america's so-called move towards isolationism. we're hearing that from donald trump but we're hearing from hillary clinton disagreeing with president obama on tpp even though she agreed with that early on. what is her policy with regards to globalization and addressing some of these concerns that a lot of these business leaders have around the world right now? >> well, she -- secretary clinton has been very clear that any trade deal needs to meet a set of tests. first of all, it needs to create jobs here in the united states, it needs to raise wages and it

needs to align with our national security interests, and so that's the test that she's going to apply to any trade deal. the tpp language that was finalized did not meet that test in her view and so she's not supporting it and she'll -- >> was she pressured not to support that? >> what's that? >> was she pressured not to support tpp from bernie sanders? >> she was not pressured in either direction. she had a clear set of criteria that she was going to match it up against. she announced those before the final t.p.p. language was released and at the time that it was she took a look at it and felt that it didn't meet those tests. >> robby, before we let you go quickly, one aspect of the syria policy for secretary clinton that we do know is she has supported no fly zones in the country. is that still her belief? >> i'm going to let her statements speak for themselves. >> robby, aren't you here representing her point of view? >> i am, indeed. i'm going to let her language speak for itself.

>> you're saying donald trump won't tell us what the policy is but here you are not telling us what the policy is. >> you are quoting secretary clinton's plans as she's laid them out. i'm going to let them speak for themselves. donald trump has not laid out a single plan. >> if donald trump doesn't have a plan as you're saying he doesn't, i've been on the campaign trail with him. you can't lay out your plan, how can you convince voters that hillary clinton is the better choice, robby? >> again, you all are quoting secretary clinton. she is out there speaking about these issues. i'm going to let her words speak for themselves. the problem is donald trump hasn't spoken on any of this. he says he knows more about isis than the generals and i think that should be troubling. >> my first question i think was the -- probably the best, which was about brangelina. we can get an answer on that. campaign manager, robby mook. >> thank you. >> so what's going on? like even -- i don't understand that. i completely flummexed by that

interview. first of all, are they pleased and openness with the press. i heard after the pneumonia deal they all were chasing, changing their relationship, trying to be more open with the press. won't even respond into aleppo. won't respond to the no fly zone. what's going on here? better not to come on. >> robby's been pretty straightforward. that was the departure. i don't know. i'm not sure. maybe they want to wait until the debate to reveal something new. we're asking about the most basic about the most important national security crisis facing the country. >> especially as katie you brought up, if you're going to be critical of the other side for -- >> this is the problem we've been having on the campaign trail for some time. when you ask donald trump or his campaign a policy, they pivot to hillary clinton not having a policy. when you ask robby mook, they pivot to donald trump. she has more policy than he does and more experience.

what we're seeing, he's more terrible than i am and i'm more -- she's more terrible than i am. >> right. >> there's not a good reason for voters who are on the fence to choose one candidate over the other. >> the campaign manager should be able to talk about aleppo. >> especially on a strong point where hillary clinton has actually been more proactive when it comes to foreign policy and her views on syria and how to address it. this just sort of plays right into donald trump's hand. >> you wonder if donald trump has left her flat footed with this idea with what your policies, president obama's policies, their actions in the middle east have left a vacuum for isis to flourish and you wonder if they're trying to find a way to combat that message because it's an effective message if you look and you're watching the, you know, beheadings overseas, you're reading about all of the horrible things that are happening over there and then you're worried about what's going to potentially happen here. >> i'm going to assume, probably incorrectly, that robby refused to answer the questions, be specific in an answer because the clinton campaign doesn't

want to create any sense of separation from president obama's administration in his handling of syria at this point. they don't want to do that. >> even the no fly zone. >> i agree. >> which she supports. >> i agree but -- >> perhaps -- >> just an assumption. let's bring in yamis yamish alsinder. let's look ahead five days from now. is the debate, everybody in this country will be watching the debate whether you've been following this for the last year and a half like most of us have or not. this is the tune in moment. what can we expect from hillary clinton? what's the strategy? >> the strategy is to try to meet donald trump not only with substance but really with style. the idea is that donald trump is really playing to people's fears, that he's good at getting people emotional. i think hillary clinton is going to try to have some solid examples of the same thing that he's been talking about. the idea of probably bringing up the tweet about skittles, syria, this idea that they're comparing

syrian refugees to a poisoned skittle. i've talked to her campaign about her laying out and being herself. they want her to show off that she's someone who has a lot of experience, someone who really knows all the names, all the countries, someone who can really -- has a real good grasp on foreign policy and is really ready to lead day one. so this idea that she's the steady candidate. that's something that the democrats have been saying over and over again. she's someone who's temperamentally fit to be in office. they're going to paint donald trump as someone who is dangerous to the country. i think they're going to go there when it comes to racism and calling him a bigot. there will be fireworks. >> difficult to prepare for a guy where you don't know which version of the man you're going to get that night, whether he's going to try to be disciplined or be the guy in the primary debates? >> i agree. i think it's going to go back to this idea of what donald trump are we going to see during the debates. this idea that hillary clinton really wants to come off looking strong but she also wants people to really understand that they

can trust her and that they can like her and in some ways that's really tough for the clinton campaign. they've been battling this idea that she's not someone who's honest, she's flip flopped in the past and she's in some ways held to a higher standard than donald trump. a lot of people will look at donald trump and think if he can get out a good sentence and show off his experience he's doing well. >> get out a good sentence, he's doing well. >> there's a bar for you. >> we've been here for nine years and, i mean, i haven't gotten off a good sentence yet. >> we aspire. >> you're trying. >> if they give us nine years. >> is that a strategy. >> a for effort, man. >> is that a strategy, to lower the bar so low -- >> it's worked for me for a very long time. >> seems to be working for donald trump also. >> yeah. i guess so. no, actually, you know, it's -- for them to lower the bar is -- is smart. i mean, hillary clinton, i think the biggest mistake they're making going into this whole debate is the fact that they're going up against a tv guy that has an extraordinarily lobar.

>> you wonder what is the line that roger ales has written for him? that will be the one that gets replayed on cable news the day after. what's going to be his i'm not going to hold my competitor's youth and inexperience against him. >> right. >> what's his line going to be? >> ela he have one. katy, thank you very much. we're back in a moment on "morning joe." using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink i thought my bladder leakage meant my social life was over. wearing depend underwear has allowed me to fully engage in my life and i'm meeting people. unlike the bargain brand, new depend fit-flex underwear is now more flexible to move with you. reconnect with the life you've been missing. get a free sample at depend.com.

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julie asked me a personal question. where are you from, joe? listen, i'm going to let the secretary answer that question. seriously, come on. you know there's a debate and she can answer that question. you have another guy to answer you. >> the point of having surrogates on is that they come to represent the point of view for the candidate when the candidate cannot be there. that was not a helpful exchange. >> how old are you? come on. seriously. she's going to be at the debate. she can answer that question. talk to the secretary. >> laughing. this morning -- >> very good. very good. >> "the new york times" is reporting the obama administration is considering arming the kurds in syria.

we'll play for you the sobering things a member of the syrian opposition told us this morning about the war that ravages syria. we'll speak with the under secretary of state, rick stengel. keep it on "morning joe." 19 trillion and growing money for programs like education will shrink. in just 8 years, interest on the debt will be our third largest federal program. bad news for small businesses. the good news? there's still time for a solution. ask the candidates for a plan to secure our future. wheyou wantve somto protect it.e, at legalzoom, our network of attorneys can help you every step of the way. with an estate plan including wills or a living trust that grows along with you and your family. legalzoom. legal help is here. you only earn double miles when you buy stuff from that aiine. wait...is this where you typically shop?

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were you shocked that the united states didn't step forward when assad crossed that red line? >> oh, that was -- >> was that a turning point. >> shattered. absolutely. >> can you describe how you feel being abandoned by the west and the world and the united nations while your people eat grass, while your children are firebombed, while your country descends into hell and nobody does anything about it? >> unfortunately, what it does,

it tells people you have no allies out there, only find those who can defend you and those who can defend you are not good guys. >> that was a member of the syrian opposition, bassm bassma kodmani speaking with us. speaking with us is rick stengel, senior foreign affairs correspondent for politico, michael crowley. thank you both for being there. let me react to what you heard there from the syrian opposition. she's here speaking to the u.n. she came on our show to plead for america to do something as she painted a terrible picture of what's happening in syria. how do you respond to that? >> it is a terrible picture. as the secretary says, it's the greatest humanitarian crisis in our era. we've supported it with humanitarian funds more than any other country, 5, $6 billion. we support free syrian democratic forces but it's an incredibly complex issue. secretary last week was, you

know, staying up all hours to negotiate the cessation of hostilities agreement with russia. we still want the russians to abide by that. we're in the a unilateral actor there. we have to work with other folks, including the kurds, including the russians to try to end the violence and, by the way, assad has committed more violence against muslims than isol. we are working to try to have a cessation. >> how can we deal with vladimir putin when his jet fighters blow up relief convoys on the ground? >> we're incredibly unhappy about that. we want the russians to abide by the agreement but when you have actors violating it, that's a tough situation. >> they're not going to abide by any agreement. it's clear russia isn't. what's the recourse for the west? >> in fact, the secretary is the one that says what's the alternative to trying to work something out.

i think there's a unanimity of interest. they do not think there is a military solution to this. there is only a political solution. it's not something that helps them either. the secretary works very hard to try to figure out how can we come to an agreement that will actually restore peace to syria, will make for democratic elections and have assad no longer be the leader. >> michael? >> the recourse involves a lot of risk. i mean, if you really want to do something, you're going to have to stick your neck out and accept a huge amount of risk. it's going to mean potentially striking syrian forces. we did it accidently. doing it potentially on purpose, hitting their runways, hitting some of their fighter jets. john kerry has advocated this privately in the past. challenging russia. daring russia. saying we're going to set up a no fly zone and you're not going to fly here. seeing how russia responds. that's incredibly dangerous. >> do you think barack obama will do that? >> no, i don't think he will. you're asking what can we do?

there's no way he'll do that. hillary clinton won't do that. interesting interview with robby mook. they're not doubling down on the past no fly zone for syria. even when bernie sanders was coming at her for being a war monger. she's dialing it back. i think the feeling in washington is if you dare the russians, vladimir putin will test us. i don't think we're willing to test that. >> rick, assad says he's not going anywhere. do you ever see a scenario where russia agrees assad doesn't have to be there? >> yes. i don't want to speak for the russians, but nobody wants to be involved with assad and be an ally of assad. he is the greatest mass killer that's on planet right now. the russians want to figure out

is there a way to get to a peaceful political solution with syria without assad leading syria. >> rick stengel, thank you so much for being with us. you were the man responsible for bringing michael crowley. >> yes. i mean -- >> "time magazine" in new york. >> we had a good run together. >> yeah, we did. we did. >> aging teen sensation, michael crowley. >> holding up well though. >> holding up well. >> i made you. i was a scarborough county regular. i made you. that's my claim to fame. >> of course you did. i don't think most of the western world will ever forgive you for that. thank you so much. we greatly appreciate you being with us. stephanie rule picks up the coverage. >> i'm stephanie rule. breaking news overnight. chaos in the streets. protests took place i