of the syrian government, and we have to make sure we're pushing that process. the political solution has to come together for the good of the people of syria. >> all right. ambassador nikki haley over the weekend on her approach to syria. but does that match the rest of the administration? good morning. it is monday april 10th, the day after joe's birthday. with us on set veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle, senior political analyst for nbc news and msnbc mark halperin, and president of the council on foreign relations and author of "a world in disarray" richard haass. did you have a good birthday, joe? >> i did. >> i have a present. my chickens laid eggs yesterday. isn't that sweet? open them up. aren't they pretty? happy birthday. >> these are from now on going to be given away as the parting gifts along with rice aroni, the

san francisco treat. >> nuggets are blue. donna's are speckled. it's amazing. you're very lucky. laid yesterday. >> will you be making omelettes in c block. >> right here, sort of a "today" show. >> did you have a good birthday? >> wonderful birthday. let's talk about the news. wonderful birthday, news, blah, blah, blah. richard haass, complaining about nikki haley said one thing and you've got tillerson saying another thing. >> first time that's ever happened. >> mcmaster saying, it's all consistent. what are you doing following the administration? are you listening more to mcmaster or is there sort of a big brzezinski give-and-take in this administration. >> multiple goals but over

different time horizons. in the short run isis, syrian cw, ousting government, regime change is years and years away from us. i'm not sure why we're talking about it that much. we can't make it happen. we're not ready for it. we don't have something to put in its place. what we should be focusing on is going after isis, making sure syrians don't use cw again, an opposition that can take territory in syria. over the next couple of years they can perhaps be partners in getting rid of the regime. >> >> for kids scoring at home cw, chemical weapons, not networks. an attempt to mend a rift causing many to speculate a change in white house staff is immine imminent. according to "new york times" president trump himself ordered senior advisers jared kushner

and steve bannon to work it out. they organized the hour long meeting. they told the two advisers to stop the back biting. quote, if you don't like it, then move on. one source says bannon's message was, quote, democrats will never run the white house. the comment apparently refers to both kushner and senior economic adviser gary cohn believed to be bannon's rival for power. reportedly nicknamed them the west wing democrats. >> just separate this quickly. this is so ridiculous. the reporting of this has been so ridiculous. anybody that wants to bet against jared kushner and ivanka trump need only call cory lewandowski. this is some of the stupidest reporting i've ever seen in my life. well, bannon may do this. we don't really know how this is going to turn out. you do know how this is going to turn out. okay.

jared and ivanka are going to be there. steve bannon is isolated inside the white house. oh, does joe not like steve bannon? i'm just telling you the truth. steve bannon is is lated inside the white house. everybody has run away from him. he made the mistake and nobody knows why two weeks ago of starting to trash jared kushner and ivanka trump. not a wise move, but he made that move, and he's living with the ramifications. even past allies. before you write your stories today about bannon's allies inside the white house, check your sources, okay, if their last name is not bannon, the sources are wrong. bannon is alone inside the white house now, mark. the other narrative. >> kind of looks like the "saturday night live" character

now. >> patently falls that reince priebus is in trouble or that reince priebus was ever in trouble. the only reason i'm a little animated here this early in the morning is the reporting was just so wrong. maybe bannon leaking it about priebus to get the attention off him. he's going nowhere. steve bannon probably going somewhere or he will do what kellyanne conway did and sort of slip into the woodwork of the white house and never be seen again. >> there's a lot of chaos in the white house and one of the things reince priebus does well is get things up and running, people, relations with the hill. that's badly needed. there are a lot of people in the white house who see he's doing that work and that needs to be done. all of this, the personnel stuff, obviously is important and it's interesting to people. they have to decide what they are going to do now.

a two-week congressional recess. legislative agenda. what are they going to do about health care, what are they going to be about taxes. that is the big question how people like jared kushner, steve bannon, still there today. how do they get legislative agenda? ideological or practical. >> this isn't just palace intrigue. it matters whether this is steve bannon's white house or whether jared kushner and cohn and ivanka and powell and that group are helping inside the white house. the difference is bannon will say to people, it's my vision, my white house. jared and ivanka trump and gary cohn will say it's donald trump's white house. bannon does think he create the donald trump. >> that's the fascinating story, the continuing topic we witness

every day, human nature. human nature reading the lines of steve bannon or in between the lines of every steve bannon story, you clearly have a man here who thinks he created a presidency. >> by the way, just going to stop you here for one second. the trump people, including the president of the united states, can tell you to the day how many days steve bannon has been around. they give you the number of the day that steve bannon has been around. they tell you exactly when the mercers came in. all these johnny-come-latelies that created donald trump, donald trump and everyone around donald trump will say steve bannon created me, he was around for -- then they will give the number of days. >> that's at one level. then you take the junk into the white house, you now have president donald trump and steve bannon, still, again, human nature thinking because he created the presidency, it's now his job and he has the authority

to mold and manipulate the presidency. yet in terms of creating the presidency, all of us were present on that day, that night in manchester, new hampshire, freezing cold night when people weren't coming out of their homes and yet 6,000 people showed up on versus obama center on elm street in manchester. >> by the way, did they come out for steve bannon? >> that's the point. >> not a lot of them. >> what about the mercers? they were working for ted cruz at the time. that's the insanity of this. that's a great point. it's snowing outside. they don't think anybody is going to come. >> no. the candidate is late. >> fighting through snow to get there. >> because you to go hmm. >> pack it with 6,000 people. steve bannon wasn't even -- steve bannon wasn't anywhere near there but he really does believe and he has believed that i have created donald trump's

nationalist platform. >> there are some very hopeful things happening. >> i've got to say this. >> i'm going to share another piece of news. >> steve king. >> perhaps. >> tweeted something which -- >> the congressman. >> steve bannon is the linchpin to your energized base, donald trump. conservatives are an endangered species in your white house. i'm going to read that again. steve king, a congressman from iowa says that steve bannon is the linchpin to your energized base. again, that's what steve bannon is telling all of his allies to say. the energized base fought the snow in new hampshire in february when steve bannon was still, what, six months away from even working on the campaign? >> now he's edgar bergen. >> now he thinks -- >> meanwhile deputy security

adviser kate mcfarland is reassigned from her job after less than three months and likely to be nominated as ambassador to singapore. the former fox news commentator was brought on by michael flynn forced out in february. since then there's been an ongoing severing of flynn's ties to the national security council. what's being called a flynn erasure led by national security adviser h.r. mcmaster. also a nickname around the intel community -- hold over from national security adviser flintstones because they are a page out of history. i'm just telling you, meet "the flintstone flintstones". >> look what's happening, steve bannon taken off, michael flynn

replaced by mcmaster, k.t. mcfarland taken off. powell going in. looking for a replacement for mcfarland. a measured response to what happened in syria overnight. since thursday a lot of people in the foreign policy community who have breathed a temporary -- temporary, i say -- sigh of relief. >> it looks like governing and that's something we haven't seen a lot of. rarn campaigning, posturing, it looks like governing. one episode or a couple of data points. people are feeling a little more comfortable. the democratic response was in some ways more interesting than the republican response to the use of force against syria. these people who worked for president obama distancing themselves. >> from president obama. >> exactly. you are beginning to see things. the next big thing -- >> can you tell me quickly. that was so fast.

john kerry came out immediately supported what donald trump did. >> hillary clinton. >> hillary clinton did. >> you had other people saying some things that were almost disloyal to barack obama, saying we could have never moved this quickly. why were they doing that? why did they all come out in force and do that? >> there was a lot of frustration. there was a sense obama presidency was paralysis by analysis. tight to center, president, ben rhodes and a few others who then afterwards tried to make a case that what they did was a solution to the chemical problem in syria when everybody knows it wasn't. history is going to be rough on this. this going to be the defining moment for obama presidency. what's interesting, inaction. proves what you don't do can matter every bit as much what you do when you govern. all these people, one disagreed at the time probably thinking about their futures but essentially it showed also that

president obama was something of a departure from the democratic foreign policy national security mainstre mainstream, which are tougher. >> we can say this now that they are out of office. we had people close to john kerry, people close to joe biden, people close to a lot of the foreign policy leaders extraordinarily frustrated and expressing the frustration of those principles of john kerry, of joe biden, of all the presidents men's and women and i think even susan rice who wanted to respond to the first chemical weapon attack. >> look, i'm a huge fan of thoughtfulness in presidencies. president obama was quite thoughtful about everything. syria was a serious mistake that the obama administration made in retrospect, don't you think? >> they thought themselves out of action. basically at some point -- what happens is lou at every option for doing something, that's difficult, that's risky, that's

flawed but never looked nearly as systematically at the option of not doing something, the cost and risk of inaction. >> the story, we spoke about this at the time, the story of the friday night, in august 2013, when the secretary of state had made quite a remarkable speech earlier that day about using force in syria because this could no longer continue. s zirin gas. i'm told within an hour of releasing, the president, chief of staff, walked the lawn late at night and changed the policy with no really communication with the secretary of state kerry or with others in the administration. >> anybody at nsc. >> danger of doing in an ad hoc

way. a lesson for future presidents. the process, interagency system. one of the challenges for this administration still, they have to flush out an interagency system. they still don't have the bodies in place. they may have had an okay day the other day but they cannot go through four years much less four more months essentially without a group of people to make policy and carry it out. >> the story is still being written of all of this. this is a work in progress. i think two things happen that were pretty significant for this foreign policy team. one is it acted decisively. they proved they could move in a way that sends a message to the world. that's something that was important to the president. the other is richard is right. of course a lot more people there. you saw national security adviser, secretary of state and u.n. ambassador who got on the world stage. although there are some contradictions to what they said, all three of them proved they could go out and represent the administration. you've not seen that in any other cabinet department on the

domestic side. >> i've got to say also, the contrast also between what they did thursday -- and again for everybody waiting to pounce at home, we're talking about thursday night. we're onnot goinot going to tel what's going to happen this thursday night. you know what, we could be watching them all play put put in mozambique. who knows what they will be doing this thursday night. last thursday night you also had the president of the united states getting advice from his secretary of defense and following it. getting advice from his national security adviser and following it instead of, quite frankly, what happened last time. we're only talking about syria, where you had -- by the way, we heard this from principles for years, the complaint that barack obama and ben rhodes would make u.s. foreign policy and sometimes they would call in

denis mcdonough. but they would not take the reasoned advice of their secretary of state or secretary of defense. >> did not want to go to war. >> or national security council. >> this was the president who wanted to get us out of wars. >> even there it's dangerous. we've been interagency process, pushing it through without taking advice. this is what happened to barack obama's foreign policy foray years. again, i'm not condemning the whole eight years. i'm telling everybody what we know around the table, when history is written, syria will be at the top of his mistakes and procedurally he is going to be attacked for basically blowing up the interagency process and just having one or two people very close to him in the white house making all the decisions on foreign policy. >> look, as richard has pointed out. if this is a one off and

continues the way it had been continuing prior to last week's missile launch, president trump will be judged pretty much the same way president obama has been. yeah, you shot off 59 missiles. but one of the factors -- positive factors of what happened last week have been told by two different people over the weekend is the impact it has had on allies in the region on egypt, bahrain, uae, on turkey and israel to some extent, saying, ah. >> not only great britain, canada, australia, the outpouring of support from allies across the globe that we are acting. >> yeah. >> again, richard, we're not talking about sending 500,000 boots on the ground. can you explain to people at home, oh, listen to them. they were one or two people other than the alt-righters, but they are basically one or two

so-called media columnists who said media was cheering a march toward 2003. basically that is logic for ann coulter and the alt-right. that's not what happened at all thursday night, is it? explain how there i actually degrees. >> entire spectrum, this was discreet action in response to chemical weapons to say no one can use chemicals weapons or weapons of mass destruction with impunity and get off cost-free. this was not -- repeat not -- this president and administration jumping in both feet to transform syria, to become a party to the syrian civil war, bring about the immediatous ter -- immediate ous ter. they have time to flesh out. it was an action, circumscribed,

bounded, no less or more. >> still ahead on "morning joe," a terrorist attack on palm sunday. twin blasts in europe, confidence in el sisi. filmmaker sebastian younger, analyst elise jordan and former ambassador to sweden mark breezy on this stockholm attack. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. it's never been easier. except when it comes to your retirement plan. but at fidelity, we're making tirement plag clearer. and it all starts with getting your fidelity retirement score. in 60 seconds, you'll know where you stand. and together, we'll help you make decisions for your plan... to keep you on track. ♪ time to think of your future it's your retirement. know where you stand. ♪ time to think of your future dearthere's no other way to say this.

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two bombings at churches in egypt packed with worshippers gathered for palm sunday services. we should warn you, some of this footage is extremely disturbing. the first bombings struck in st. george church in the town, the

second outside st. marks cathedral in alexandria. this moment captures the attack when singing and then the blast rips through killing video signal. another video shows apparent suicide bomber denied entrance into st. marks before blowing himself up. isis claimed responsibility for the attacks but nbc news has not been able to authenticate that claim. in his palm sunday address pope francis condemned the attacks and offered his condolences to the victims. egyptian president fatah al sisi declared emergency. president trump who hosted him at the white house a week ago called his egyptian counterpart last night offering his condoll -- condolences and condemning the attack. let's prim in am ayman mohyeldi.

>> he was here last week, projects himself as law and order candidate, touting to egyptians last few years he's going to restore law and order and security in that country. this is almost the third separate attack on churches in that country during the reign and it exploits concerns people have. you have isis for the most part localized in the northern part of the sinai peninsula. now if this claim is, in fact, credible, carrying out attacks against churches in the mainland of egypt that's a massive setback to security across the count country. keep in mind churches in egypt are heavily guarded. this is going to raise a lot of questions about the competence of security forces, competence of state to do what it sees it's

going to do. you can see the rage, people by the thousands taking to the streets dead manneding the government do more to protect the christian minority in the country. this is a trying time for the country and certainly the christian community. >> ayman, thank you very much. greatly appreciate it. richard haass, obviously donald trump has reversed scepticism that the obama administration had toward sisi. talk about that relationship and how you think it plays into trump's bigger play in the middle east. >> essentially what you've had is united states walk almost but not completely away from what you might call conditional relationship with the egyptians. obama administration was very worried about their human rights record. kind of you're with me or against me politics. seen as very polarizing. they held up a lot of military deliveries, kept their distance and mr. trump has ended that. essentially sisi came here --

>> he's gone back. isn't that more traditionally -- that's how we acted towards mubarak for 30 years. >> he is in some ways like mubarak. we've essentially gone back to that. what this shows you, though, there's no amount of point or local defense that can make a society safe. >> i was going to say if they put -- i understand people protesting against sisi but if somebody wants to put a bomb underneath a pew in a country as large as egypt they are going to be able to do that regardless of the security. >> one couldn't get into the church but still blew himself up. remember when israel was going through that. theres no way any society can keep itself safe. every subway, every grocery store, every movie theater, every religious place of worship. that's what we saw in egypt, to some extent in russia. we could see it here god forbid. this is something about a modern society. even authoritarian societies and

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>> obama giving the heads of the chinese delegation in washington state dinners. state dinners. we eat mcdonald's you believe we come to an agreement. do you agree? no, really. in the history of the world, there has never been a greater theft than what china has taken out of the united states. the relationship developed by president xi and myself i think is outstanding. we look forward to being together many times in the future. i believe lots of very potentially bad problems will be going away. >> president trump wrapped up his first meeting with chinese

president xi jinping on friday hailing tremendous progress in their personal relationship. joining us columnist for "daily beast," author-of-"nuclear showdown, korea takes on the world." good to have you on this morning. >> when is china going to collapse? >> a couple years or so. what we're seeing is an economy that's not growing at the 6.7 base they claim. to the extent it's growing is because of an unprecedented am of debt. we see they are accumulating debt five times faster than gross domestic product. even if you believe the 6. 7% number, political system more coercive, political instability of xi jinping. >> i remember talking to jon huntsman five or six years ago. this was at a point where everybody was talking about china, number one economy.

i said, what is the most important thing to the leaders. said, most important thing to the party is 9, 9.5% growth. if they can't deliver that, they understand they are in trouble. >> now they are saying it's high 6s but even that's not real in part because so much of the growth is artificial growth stimulated by massive government infusion of fund. what it tells you chinese government is afraid of widespread unemployment. unemployment would lead to political instability. big party congress, xi jinping's opportunity to consolidate his political power. >> are they in a bubble right now? is the economy a bubble? >> the answer is several bubbles probably. several heirs to the chinese economy growing at a rate that's not a natural rate. again, it's more because of government policy than anything happening from the ground . >> what they did in 2008 was they said we're not having a recession. we're not having an adjustment. so they put an enormous amount of debt into the system. they created an amount of debt

which is about equal to u.s. banking system even though when they did that their economy was less than one-third the size of ours. they avoided the recession but they have property bubble, stock market bubbles, all bubbles. they have to have an adjustment downward some time. >> who said this. >> you say nothing out of friday even by acknowledgement of two governments, leaders got to know each other. u.s. people don't like status quo with china on trade, on currency, on security. are the chinese happy with the status quo? are they happy to have a summit nothing gets done or do they need something. >> they are happy nothing gets done because they have everything they want from u.s. relationship right now, mark. so if nothing has changed, they are okay. trump has been talking about changing things immediately. he said that on may 1st with thatter i believe rape comment with china. he postponed everything with this framework discussion, 100 day plan. all of it is sort of like we're kicking the can down the road again.

i think that's going to cause him problems in places like western pennsylvania and michigan. unless he can actually come up with a real sense of accomplishment in those places. i don't think he can. >> richard, i would guess the foreign policy community was pleased that donald trump was talking the way he was talking this weekend to the leader of china, most important partner or rival, instead of the way he was talking during the campaign when we talk about speeches. i disagree nothing happened this weekend. we actually now have a working relationship with china that we didn't have before the meeting. >> absolutely. i think they avoided a trade war. china is not manipulating its currency. there was a couple of projects they agreed to. so the fact the summit happened without a real confrontation over trade, sometimes it's not you what accomplish, it's what you avoid. >> again, just to remind everybody, you think we're spinning this, this is what we want to see from meetings and

summits, not what happened with angela merkel. >> north korea. not a lot happened there. that one they kicked down the road. united states and china have to work that out if we can. chinese went home, entire summit took place against the backdrop of syria. they know united states is uncomfortable with the drift of north korean missile problem but that's a problem for another day. big thing of the summit was quote, unquote, personal relationship and avoidance of breakdown of this relationship over trade. >> there's one other thing, trump put xi jinping in his place. have you to remember his plane arrived in florida before trump's, really a breach of diplomatic protocol. trump announces the attack on syria and that's china's good friend. xi jinping is there and can't say anything. that sort of cuts him down to size. i think trump did that on purpose. he could have waited in xi had left florida, he didn't do it, which is a real indication that trump wanted to sort of tell xi

jinping, this is your place. i'm in charge. >> let's also talk with you about north korea. national security adviser h.r. mcmaster is defending the decision to send carl vincent carrier strike group to japan. called it prudent considering north korea's, quote, pattern of provocative behavior. a spokesman adds the move is to maintain readiness and presence in the region. north korea has conducted four missile launch tests this year and the rocket engine test. >> gordon, do you agree with what the united states is doing? is that the prudent move? >> i think prudent to put it in the sea of japan, on the other side of the korean peninsula from china. there's an incident when you go back to 2010 when we were going to put the george washington --

we were going to after the sailors were killed. china objected to that. because of that we didn't put the carrier there. what happens is north koreans killed four more south koreans. we could have prevented that incident but we didn't do it, deferring to china. but putting it in the sea of japan. we wan to work to you. on the other hand we are willing to bring our assets into the region. next time the carrier might go into the yellow sea where you don't want it to be. >> richard. >> another message, which is interesting. the last 15 years single mindedly focused with middle east, iraq, afghanistan, all these other crisis, sir yachl the fact we can do what we did in syria yet still focusing on south korea sends a message, not going to be single focused on the middle east. this is now in some ways higher on the list of national security because north korea is a much bigger threat to the united

states. >> this has been your complaint for five, six, seven years, we have been too singularly focused on the middle east. there was never a shift to asia. >> no. the rhetoric of the shift, so-called rebalancing or pivot didn't really happen. trump administration hurt itself by not going through with trans-pacific partnership trade deal with you going ahead with diplomacy and, two, greater military emphasis. this is a backdrop to some kind of negotiation in beijing, pyongyang to do something with north korean missile program. >> as long as syria nor north korea does anything provocative, events will have worked out well. either of them does, chemical test, weapons, puts a role on the administration to act again. >> great conversation. thank you so much. still ahead "washington post" bob costa joins us for latest reporting on balance of power inside the trump administration. and delta air lines tries to get back on track. this was a nightmare. >> somebody tweeted last night,

if you really want to stop syria from using any of those bases, put delta in charge. >> stop. delta canceled thousands of flights throughout the weekend. we'll tell you about the severe backlog and backlash. we'll be right back. >> what happened?

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46 past the hour, delta air lines is finally getting flights back on schedule after their system suffered massive delays in cancellations. it was awful. >> please. >> i had friends who were really did not need this right now. it all began wednesday when severe weather broke out particularly around the airlines' hub in atlanta. but the company continued to suffer major problems as recently as sunday.

five days later, according to usa today, the airline canceled more than 160 flights yesterday while nearly 1050 more were running behind schedule. delta e-mailed customers apologizing, saying their system recovery isn't consistent with the service flyers should expect. but that e-mail, oh, my god, was sent on friday. >> that's delta's basic and biggest problem. >> wow. >> you can be there in the airport online and everyone knows they are going to bag the flight. >> i know. have you to sit for five hours. >> nothing. >> this is what happened to my friend's family, my friend who passed away. they came for their "mom" mom's funeral in georgetown. tried to get home, waited six hours for a delayed flight and then a canceled flight. just come on. >> i won't bore you with my own story, i'm a big delta guy in general. their excuse was the system is under stress.

that's the time the system has to function. the basic things telling people, re-booking, a disgrace after they established they will selves as such an important airline in this country. you can't operate like that. >> that was bad. time for must-read opinion pages. "new york times," all the president's generals. he writes this. the trump administration doesn't really have any normal foreign policy experts among its civilian officials. rex tillerson may have a realist streak and nikki haley a moralistic style but neither one has been part of these debates before. mike pence has nothing like the experience of a dick cheney or joe biden. if bannon's vision is getting sidelined, it's not like jared kushner is ready with a deeply thought out alternative. '6what trump has instead are generals. james mattis and h.r. mcmaster and other military men in his cabinet. plus, of course, the actual

professional military itself. and it's this team of generals, not any of the usual foreign policy schools, that seems increasingly likely to steer his statecraft going forward. that seems to make a lot of sense to me, richard haass, and seeing him dealing with syria has put him -- i think we used this phrase last week -- in the fox hole with the generals, which seems a lot more comforting than steve bannon and his little -- >> national defense, in all my years of working in government, almost invariably the guys in uniform more sober than civilians. guys in uniform understood if bad things happened, they would have to be the ones that risk their lives. often civilians are more ideological. military is sober and professional and particularly in areas like middle east. we have no diplomats on the ground. >> i think that actually trump's

personality balances perfectly with generals who are methodical, buttoned up, deal with procedure on a very different level while trump is very passionate, impulsive. so it's kind of a good mix. >> my argument against rudy giuliani as secretary of state, steve bannon nsc had less to do with those individuals themselves. a disrupter that wants to change washington does not need to be surrounded by disrupters but people who can tell them how to change washington. anybody who says, you have establishment people around trump it will change trump, those are people who underestimate donald trump. we have general mcmaster and general mattis in there advising

a disrupter, who defers and listens to them. that actually works much better than having disrupters around. i will say as a conservative if george h.w. bush is president of the united states i'm good with him having a position in the administration, have somebody that mixes things up but not with donald trump. >> one of the thing going on around the edges of this conversation with president trump's cabinet and people advising him, the two generals you just mentioned, mcmaster and general mattis, it's pretty easy to typecast them because of the, phrase, application, a lot of people with no frame think -- >> with the backdrop of the generals, we all grew up understanding john kennedy did not trust joint chiefs.

this is different. >> these are two people. both know what it's like, after missiles sent in the air. >> they unfortunately, mark halperin, have been exposed over the past 16 years to the horrors of war. when you have when you have general mattis who actually got his nickname from time in fallujah, one of the darkest chapters of time in the iraq war, they know there are dramatic costs for beginning military operations. >> not just the human costs but failure of mission. those are the two wars that the

americans have judged as failures. mike flynn's personality was too much like donald trump. when you briefed the press through yesterday on a sunday show, mcmaster has come out as a reasonable i think the people who were pleased with his appointment could not have been happier for the last five days and the role he seems to be playing in this government. >> mika, like you said, there's a balance. >> right. >> you always want that balance between the leader, if it's george h.w. bush, who may be overly prudent, i don't know. perhaps you do have some disrupters in there. i guess i should say barack obama. barack obama overly prudent. maybe should have had more disrupters there. like you said, mcmaster and mattis balance out donald trump's personality well. >> there's friction, which can be really positive or completely

unnecessary, which bannone is on the unnecessary friction side. he creates friction all around. >> and flynn did. >> completely unhelpful. and flynn did. >> two of trump's tribute or however you want to say it. he understood that about five days into the white house, that flynn didn't fit there. even before this story erupted. you could sense by the body language and sense by what other staff members were saying that donald trump got tired of going into meetings with general flynn, where he was yelling at intel chiefs. trump talks a big game and negotiates, but then he sits down and actually wants to talk to people and not scream behind closed doors. >> particularly the person in that job, he has to first and foremost be a coordinator before he's an advocate and a calmer rather than a stirrer-upper.

they all spent time working with civilians on the ground. they understand here is the role of our power. here are the other things you need to do to have an effective military policy. military power is one tool. it can't become the totality of it. military guys often understand the limits of military force more than civilians who see these things abstractly. >> steve bannon is warned that he's, quote, playing a dangerous game. bannon's clash with the sbo president's son-in-law and right-hand man, jared kushner. plus, cory gardner will join us. ahead of the secretary of state's visit to moscow this week. "morning joe" is back in a moment. you seek audience. yes, wise man. i'm confident in my credit score...

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host of the circus. former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments elise jordan and political reporter for the washington post, robert costa. >> by the way, you should be saluted, mark halperin, anybody that can drop in 2017 an american bandstand refence from 1974 that's pretty good. >> man of great range. >> banstand. bandstand. warring inner circle either work it out or move on. that could spell trouble for senior adviser steve bannon, who has been sparring with the son-in-law jared kushner. >> don't do that. not smart. >> reince priebus organized an hour-long meeting to try to clear the air. bannon's message were, quote, democrats will never run the white house, referring to

kushner and gary cohn. bannon has nick naemed them the west wing democrats. national security adviser h.r. mcmaster is said to be pushing out holdovers from michael flynn's short tenure in the white house, among them k.t. mcfarland being reassigned and likely to be nominated as ambassador to singapore. the former fox news commentator was brought on by flynn, who was forced out himself in february. not a promotion. >> not a promotion, no. bob costa, first of all, breaking news this morning. mika has delivered to the table -- >> laid yesterday. >> fresh eggs of gina, nugget and donna. >> i gave them to joe for his birthday and he wasn't -- such a cute label. >> aren't the eggs sweet? happy birthday, joe. >> you open it up -- >> nugget makes blue eggs.

>> just in time for zbleefrt i'll throw them at richard's house tonight if he says something we don't like. >> don't you like them? >> jen loves them. thank you. >> so, bob costa, now that we've gotten past that, let's talk about infighting at the white house. let's see if your reporting lines up with mine. one, bannon is completelyies lated inside the white house because he decided to take on donald trump's daughter and son-in-law. not a smart move. reince priebus, despite some reporting on thursday and friday, reince is safe, has been safe and will be safe for the foreseeable future. that's what i've heard since thursday. what are you hearing? >> my reporting mostly aligns with that, making several calls over the weekend to my sources, bannon is isolated but still close with steven miller and close with several cabinet officials including general mattis and director of the cia,

mike pompeo. with kushner there is definitely a divide. remember, you know this, joe. kushner and bannon became close during the campaign. they still have a rapport of sorts. it's a divide on policy. it's not like they're warring on personal matters but it's really about the direction of the policy. i'm told kushner is rattled by the poll numbers and wants to see trump do more that's mainstream that's tax cuts, that's centrist, not disreputation or deconstruction of the administrative state, to use a bannon term. that's the real divide. trump is okay with these competing power centers and hasn't chosen which side exactly. as we've always known, covering trump, the family, and in particular kushner, win out in these arguments. >> two words. family wins. if you look at the fact that the family could tell you how many breitbart stories attacked the

family over the weekend. i don't know who steve bannon thinks he's playing with here. and i'm not being smug. but i don't know who he thinks he's playing with, if he thinks he can leak something to breitbart and that egg not end up on steve bannon's face or leak something to roger stone and that egg not end up on bannon's face, how stupid? i'm not playing a game here. but how stupid does he think trump and ivanka and kushner are? >> i agree with what you just said. but bob is right. he still has a rapport with the president for the following two reasons. >> how do you two know that? have you all talked to the president? has the president told you that he has rapport with him still? i'm curious. that might be old reporting. >> there are two things that he brings that i believe people around the president and i believe the president himself still values. one is, why was trump elected?

what made him popular? >> it wasn't bannon. >> no, but it was the kinds of things that bannon is still proposing, which is not a normal republican coalition. >> if steve bannon goes back to wherever he came from, donald trump will still be donald trump. and donald trump will still have the instinct -- i don't mean to interrupt -- that he had well before steve bannon was a dplimer in his eye. this is the mistake that bannon makes. >> he will but will be surrounded by people from goldman sgold m goldman sachs. there's still a belief, the coalition that got him lebtd needs to be part of the policy goals going forward and second is -- >> wait, wait. do you think -- because this is important. because it's a mistake the media is making. do you think that donald trump has to have steve bannon around him to tell him how to win wins wis consequencin?

>> no. >> or can he turn to gary cohn and say, thank you, that's the greatest thing i heard -- hold on. questi f mika, who was the last perso in the room with donald trump? >> donald trump. >> always donald trump. >> and someone has to implement those impulses. second thing bannon does, almost like anyone else in this white house, is think big and bold. let's do it differently. hasn't worked so far in the white house. >> does donald trump think big and bold? >> he does. the president cannot implement. >> this guy can't implement making a ham sandwich. >> he tried with health care. >> i'm telling you why this is not a done deal. >> what you have said about steve bannon actually undercuts steve bannon on both counts. first, bannon's comment that he can only make trump trump. botched a deal that screwed the

first two weeks of the white house. >> first two months. set the narrative that he was completely incompetent. >> went up to capitol hill to sell congress and instead threatened them. >> at the end of the day, president trump knows that he is his own best strategist. he doesn't owe anything in the white house to anyone. it's not like there's someone, that political mastermind who evaluated him to the position. at the end of the day from start to finish, he did it himself. >> alex correctly said to my ear who actually did vault him into the white house. hillary clinton. >> i agree with what you're saying. i'm just trying to -- >> don't you understand the first thing you say is why donald trump is so irritated? bannon runs around. i'm the guy that came up with the union strategy. >> but there's been plenty of press, though, that jared kushner won the election, that kellyanne conway won the

election. 75 profiles to that accord. so many people tried to claim credit for trump's win. >> tune who has not? jared kushner. the press has. >> i agree. i'm just trying to say, i agree with everything you said. obviously he is in a different place than he was before to say the least. there are two reasons why he's still there and he he may stay there. >> bob costa, i hear you trying to get in. >> robert, jump in. >> joe's point about priebus, priebus is also on the line with bannon. they form this had political alliance. to mark's point, bannon has reasons to stay. the president just wants wins and kushner recognizes that that's what the president wants. they're frustrated with congress. there's a weariness, though, on capitol hill about gary cohn, kushner, a respect for their abilities and connection to the president. can kushner and cohn, had can

they push rank and file republicans in the house and senate to the agenda -- >> first of all i'm not going to declare that the alliance between reince priebus and steve bannon is over. i will say that reince priebus is, based on my reporting, uncomfortable with people that team him with steve bannon. >> he's just uncomfortable in general. >> political odor about him right now inside the white house. >> it's kind of a sharp one. >> but don't you have -- i guess so. don't you have -- just reminded of something i said to willie a while back. don't you, though, have in the vice president somebody that can make that pitch on capitol hill? >> pence has developed -- vice president has developed a relationship with trump of trust. but there's a strain throughout the white house, not just with

pence, about what can actually be done legislatively in this term. >> but baninform on doesn't sell on capitol hill. bannon threatens on capitol hill. >> on health care, that's true. >> what is bannon good for to this white house other than taking credit for bannon? can anybody tell me? >> the press strategy has been this breitbart, no holds barred. let's be so aggressive with the press, talk about how much we hate the press. we're not going to work with the press and ultimately that always fails. >> it's the nationalism. bannon is the nationalist. if bannon goes away, that nationalist core within the white house probably fades away whachlt does the trump administration become, more -- >> let's get alex up on camera there.

>> definitely. this always ends well. >> get your dreamy side, please. alex, will you please get -- because that's his dreamy side. get me copies of donald trump talking on the "today" show in the 1980s. we've played the clips before. where he sounds just like donald trump talking in 2017 about china. >> yep. we're on t that shouldn't be hard. >> and pull up his ad 1988 that he spent $100,000 on to talk about trade in japan. >> if steve bannon goes, donald trump is still the nationalist he was when jane pauley was at the "today" show. >> again, hold on. i hate to be a law professor here. but how does that have to do with steve bannon? >> the reince priebus, jared kushner side of the party get

the debt ceiling raised, will they pass health care reform? >> will steve bannon? >> i'm not talking about his -- >> you don't have an zblaens because i'm agreeing with you that, to date, no one in the administration has executed a legislative strategy. >> bannon thinks he's trump. >> if there's a governing coalition that mirrors the electoral coalition, it involves doing things that are more populist. they're not going to raise the debt ceiling with republican votes. >> i understand but does anybody in this studio, do you guys understand, richard haas? >> i tried to stay out of this. >> you're coming in. >> donald trump, donald trump is the one that makes these sell. it's not the jared kushner wing of the party. it's not the gary cohn ring of the party, the reince priebus wing of the party and it sure as

hell isn't the steve bannon wing of the party, even though he tells everyone it is. it starts and ends with donald trump. >> agreed. problem is that his political philosophy, such as it is, doesn't match up with congress. the problem in making the sell is if you take democrats and republicans it's not clear what his governing coalition s one thing that will result from t s this, they may not get certain wins. foreign policy is a place he doesn't need congress so much. forget steve bannon. he hasn't figured out the governing philosophy and mechanism for this administration. >> pretty simple. 175 republicans and 40 to 45 democrats. >> no issue on which they're currently positioned to do that. >> infrastructure, we could do that -- >> even there, they're not. >> democrats think about infrastructure as spending. republicans think about it as tax credits. they're totally different things under the same label.

>> what does donald trump think of it as? >> probably a blend. >> exactly. there's your governing philosophy. 180 plus 40. we'll compromise. because guess what donald trump loves to do? get people in a room and compromise. guess what steve bannon has been saying he should do for the past 70 days -- this all rests on donald trump. i'm not cutting him any slack at all. mika will probably talk about the 25th amendment by the end of the show. this is what donald trump does. you believe that, you believe that. i want a deal. we get a deal on infrastructure. tax cuts. paul ryan wants to reform the entire tax code. donald trump would be happy if corporate tax rates just went down. that makes us more competitive across the globe. >> one thank that -- >> chuck schumer will vote for that. >> we've seen how he has put the best experts, jim mattis,

mcmaster, matter people are put in front of him, he will change positions such as leaving iraq out of the travel ban, which i disagree with the travel ban on the whole but at least, yes, they made their case. get iraq out of it. he will make concessions when reasonable people have smart policy ideas in front of them and steve bannon, quite frankly, is not one of those people. >> no, he's not and he pushes the argument to fight for our base, rn the village down, attack the press wooeche've got attack -- i'm sorry. how stupid do you have to be? we have to attack our intel community. that's just madness. and it's led him to where everybody is at war with him now. >> bob costa, final thought? >> my interview with trump in 2015 where i was talking about him. does he have an ideology?

i said mr. trump you're a populist. he said no, i'm not a populist. i'm common sense. it struck me that he doesn't think in ideological terms then. he doesn't think in ideological terms now. >> that, richard, is a very powerful -- if you want to make deals -- >> that was the potential of this president. >> that is the potential of this presidency. 79% of americans told nbc news and the wall street journal in one of the latest polls that they want republicans and democrats to compromise and get washington working again. if you want to have a coalition in the house of 175 republicans, 40, 45 democrats you want somebody like donald trump that can get both sides together and talk. when i say like donald trump, i'm not talking about how he has acted since he has been president or even on the campaign but somebody who told bob costa i'm not chained to ideology. i want to make deals. >> playing insight game. two thoughts.

steve bannon doesn't help you play the inside game. he plays an outside game. health care is a major distraction and cost because they didn't do it that way. rather than trying to approach democrats at a position of strength, are they approaching them from a position of weakness and whatever you have, the 40, 45 democratic votes, can can that become a governing coalition? that will determine whether you have domestic successes for this president. >> the democrats would get on the floor and go newt gingrich's contract on america will starve babies, throw people -- you know, something like, i think, the average contract with america 40, 50 democrats came along with us. none of those things passed 218-216, or 219-217. for sfaninstance, you put out t

reform that just tackles right now the corporate tax rate. and our competitors across the floeb y globe you'll get 75, 80 senators voting for that. i would love to be in the room with chuck schumer and his biggest contributors in new york city when he tells them he's going to vote against lowering corporate tax rates. you actually -- i'm sorry but because i'm a dude, i quote the godfather. you make them a deal they can't refuse. it's not that hard to do when you start talking about tax reform. >> it's hard right now. you're right, but that mirrors what trump promised. you're right that it's there on policy. the minute you turn the rubix

cube, you inflame the right. >> you don't think nancy pelo, the minority leader in the house won't leverage that dynamic? >> she'll keep asking for more and more. >> by the way at some point if you're good at this, you'll figure out how to give them what they need and give enough mainstream republicans what they need. a guy who was a member of what was basically the freedom caucus when i was there, when they wanted to pass something, you could hear the tractors coming and we would run. we would vote no but they would run over us and pass bills. and it was the circle of life. we could go home to our districts and complain about the liberals in both parties and everybody won. >> robert costa, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," secretary of state rex tillerson steps into the spotlight, meeting with before

that high ly trip to moscow. >> and sebastian is here on his documentary of the fall of syria and the rise of isis. you're watching "morning joe." ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ sfx: engine revving ♪ (silence) ♪ that $100k is not exactly a fortune. well, a 103 how long did it take you two to save that? a long time. then it's a fortune. i told you we had a fortune. get closer to your investment goals with a conversation.

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tillerson's criticism comes after russia on friday condemned the u.s. strike, calling it an attack on its ally. and it appears that assad's forces resumed their campaign of air strikes against rebel forces over the weekend, according to the syrian observatory for human rights, a series of strikes on saturday killed at least 18

people, including five children in the rebel-controlled idlib province. the nonstop onslaught by the syrian regime as part of a focus of a powerful new documentary by filmmaker sebastian young. >> any reasonable person would flee the kind of fighting we've seen in syria. they happily risk their lives to be smuggled across the border, eventually making their way to the west to make a better life for their children. people say, look, it's not our problem. okay. that's not your problem but that doesn't mean you won't be affected by it. you can say that you don't actually care about human

suffering. the truth is that all violence and misery eventually affect the entire world. in that sense there is no escaping the fact that we are all part of the human race. there is no escaping the fact that borders become irrelevant once people start dying and societies begin to collapse. >> the documentary, "hell on earth: the fall of syria and the rise of isis" premieres at the tribecca film festival later this mong month and heirs this spring on national geographic. sebastian younger joins us now. this looks really good. >> thank you very much. we're really proud of it. >> what were you hoping to accomplish when you set out to do this? so many conflicting issues about syria, confusion about it, about why obama didn't act, confusion about where we go, moving forward and some people completely disconnected from it. it seems you're trying to approach that sort of gap there.

>> yeah. i think the proper role for journalests isn't to suggest policy but to inform. my first war was bosnia, kosovo. and in many of those wars i and my colleagues want to make it clear to the public what's happening on the ground, why this came to pass and in explaining that sometimes solutions emerge. in bosnia, that war was ended by a ten-day nato air bombardment that stopped the genocide and started the process of peace. journalists would say we should do that. when you explain the things on the ground things like that start to emerge as a solution. >> we did act in bosnia. we did act during that time. bill clinton and air strikes. but what are the syrian people

saying about the united states, about the west? do they feel abandoned? do they feel bow tretrayed? do they feel begotten? >> just amazed that this amount of suffering can happen. >> 500,000 deaths. >> the world doesn't do anything. i remember hearing the same thing in sarejevo. they couldn't believe it. they're like, look what's happening. the world isn't doing anything. that's what the syrians feel. >> in this documentary you have an unaired interview with general mike flynn you did in 2016. >> yeah. >> what can you tell us about that interview just because i think it's interesting to know how one of trump's most influential advisers views the refugee crisis. >> back when he did the interview he didn't know what was in store for him

politically. and we didn't know, of course. he really spoke his mind and said, look, if you want to stop the refugee crisis, you have to bring enough peace to that country that people will stay, that they'll go home. in other words he was making an argument for nation building, political haraeresy. >> got any heroes in this movie? >> so many heroes, ordinary syrians trying to survive. >> talk about one of them. >> they're digging people out of rubble, civilian organization, risking their loovs. it's absolutely horrific. they would not say they're heroes. they would say we're syrians, we're doing what needs to be done. there's a baker in aleppo who is like, i'm not leaving. my people need bread. i'm going to keep making bread.

heroism exists at that level. >> it's upset me that the white helmets have been targeted by conspiracy theorists who have said that, you know, they're funded by, you know, this outside interest, et cetera, et cetera. what's your response to the conspiracies about the white helmets not being what they are. >> listen, it bothers me that conspiracy theorists targeted 9/11, obama. this is the same. they're incredibly brave people who have at their mission and its heart is to save people's lives. >> compare the level of suffering in syria with what you saw in afghanistan, in iraq. >> the death toll is much, much higher. they weren't using nerve gas in bosnia. we got cameras in to people in

syria. it's incredibly dangerous, as you know. the level of suffering is astronomically higher than any of the wars i've covered. >> the fall of syria and the rise of isis premieres at the tribecca film festival and air this is spring on national geographic. sebastian junger, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe." >> friday the senate voted to confirm supreme court nominee neil gorsuch which made it extra awkward for merrick garland's family when he pretended to come home again from another long day at the supreme court. senator cory gardner joins us next. ♪

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this morning, neil gorsuch will be sworn in as a supreme

court justice. justice anthony kennedy will preside over the ceremony, marking the first time that a justice will serve alongside his former clerk. the washington post reports the newest justice could have an immediate impact. as the high court considers whether to hear two cases concerning the second amendment. >> mark halperin, let's talk about it. what is the state of the court? what is the fallout? >> if he votes as people expect there will be fewer ties and more 5-4 decisions that conservative lbs happy about. >> the fallout in the senate? >> oh, over the change in rules? it's changed for now. the first time they run up against a roadblock in the senate, you'll hear people talking about changing it for legislation. lot of senators in both parties wringing their hands saying it's not a great moment for the

senate. just as democrats changed it for nominations under harry reid, and it moves toward the process and personalities overwhelming any desire to have in the senate. >> i was home over the weekend briefly. back today for the swearing in. >> okay. so looking ahead, you're going to be there for the swearing in. you support this, clearly. how do you think gorsuch will impact the court? >> if you look back to when justice scalia was on the court, he will be very much ruling in line with justice scalia. some issues over deference, whether we give too much deference to the administration bodies or not. 4-4 ties will no longer be a thing we see going forward. it will be more in line with the

scalia court. >> last week, obviously, 59 cruise missiles fired off into the night in syria. you're on the foreign relations committee. what about an extension of rewriting an approval of a new authorization for use of military force, would you favor that? >> we have to hear from the administration exactly what they're going to do. this was a legal strike, deterence effort. >> who said it was legal? >> i believe it was, using the authorities of the 2001, protecting our men and women in uniform as well as to go after a violation of international humanitarian law. but i do think there's going to be a conversation. there should be a well thought-out plan presented from the white house to congress if necessary seeking our approval. we need to have that plan. it needs to be supported by the international community so we can see an end to the assad regime. >> senator, as you followed it and know about it, what came out of the president's highly touted summit with president jinping?

>> on the economic front it appears allowing u.s. investors in china but it's also important we understand what happens as it relates to north korea. in the coming days and weeks we hope to see emerge from china a plan to deal with kim jong-un's nuclear sto stockpile and how china will take responsibility for the situation in north korea. >> elise jordan? >> senator gardner in 2013, i believe -- correct me if i'm wrong -- you supported having the president come to congress for approval of any military action in syria. what's changed now with last week's action and your concerns over the legality? i just noticed that in your statement about it, you mention frequently international law and how this was within international law. what about american law and the constitution and receiving authorization for military force? >> well, over the last four years since 2013, we've seen

continued atrocities carried out by the assad regime against its own people, including multiple chemical weapons attacks at this point and four years worth of russian and syrian escalation and complicity in acts against its people. i think this strike was in proportionality to the chemical attacks, in order to deter assad from using chemical wepens in the future. a well-thought out plan presented to congress. if the approval is necessary, let's have that approval and make sure this is something that is not just unilateral by the united states but has bite in and support of the international community. >> hopscotching the globe, as they used to say, let's go back to north korea. you've seen -- i suspect you've seen a lot of intell about north korea, given your role on the foreign relations committee.

if, per chance, china, in coordination with the united states, south korea, if kim jong-un was suddenly taken off the table as the head of north korea, are you at all concerned with who would follow him? >> i think there is a question of who would follow him. in conversations i've had with experts on north korea, i don't think anybody has that answer. at a committee hearing a month or so ago i asked several experts on a scale of zero to 00 where are we in planning for the transition away from the kim jong-un regime? they gave me a three. we are a long way away from understanding what happens after kim jong-un. that's why south korea, japan and the united states need to come together, working with china, to deal with kim jong-un's regime. it's an important answer we don't have yet. >> greatly appreciate it. >> up next, leaders in sweden begin to rethink its immigration

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sign up for netflix on x1 today and keep watching all year long. four people were killed, at least 15 more injured after a man drove a truck into a busy shopping district in sweden's capital of stockholm on friday. swedish authorities say the suspect behind friday's attack was supposed to leave the country in january after being denied a request for permanent residency. the prime minister is also looking hard at the future of their immigration policy reportedly saying his country will never allow the same situation they had during the refugee crisis. authorities also say the suspected driver, unidentified 39-year-old ubekistan national, who also had been arrested, expressed sympathy for extremist groups.

a second suspect has been arrested. former u.s. ambassador to sweden, my brother, mark brzezinski, who served in that role and the fashl security staff under president clinton. >> mark, so good to have you with us. >> thank you for having me. >> legendary mike barnicle is with us. >> tell me about the vetting process in sweden. >> it's changed before virtually anyone who would arrive in sweden, if they were declaring themselves political asylee, they would be admitted. new regimes have been put in place in the last year to vet people more intensely, to look into their backgrounds and i suspect what happened on friday will trigger more review to see if more is needed. i will also say the attack in sweden was very personal for me and my family. we lived just a few blocks from

the place where this occurred. my wife works with spotify, the company with which one of the victims worked, a british national. so our hearts go out to sweden. >> given the state of the world, as it has been for several years, mark, what was the thought process in sweden, with no vetting for anyone who would want to come into that country from wherever they were coming from? >> the thought process was reflected on what you saw, mike, on sunday, where there was a huge national love and openness demonstration two days after one of the worst terrorist attacks that anyone can remember in stockholm. the country sees itself as a humanitarian superpower and celebrates its openness and its global connectivity. and so that's the ethos that underpins this practice of openness that the swedes have. and i think that they are

heartbroken that this has occurred. but i also think that they are defiant in the face of this and want to maintain this openness. >> that's tough. >> it is. >> but there is, obviously, mark, a balance there. and isn't there an understanding that perhaps that openness actually led -- either led to a tragedy or could lead to a tragedy. as you said when this process began >> you know, joe, the most favorite word embrace is the word that means balance. and balance in the face of competing opportunities and competing tensions. this issue of immigration and integration is one that is going to, i think, be facing a new definition of balance.

i think the swedes will focus increasingly on how to effectively integrate those who arrive on their shores. in 2015, the swedes took in peo sweden in is size of the state of jose altuve. population of half a million people. 150,000 people arriving from syria yemen, somalia, is a hard thing to absorb. and the integration of those immigrants is not monolivic. for example, iranians arriving in sweden generally speaking have assimilated much more espectively into professional classes than say folks from somalia who have had a much more difficult time assimilating into sweden. so that has to with dealt with on a kind of case-by-case basis as well. >> right. does sweden do anything well in terms of economic integration. well, there is a lot of resources and energy put towards

language education getting people into houses and accommodation around the country. only so many low skilled jobs. that's the thing. sweden is a professionally very advanced country. look where the events this past friday occurred. right next to amazon and right outside of h and miranda warnings officers. those are global companies. this will is a high-tech society. if you arrive in sweden with no tech background, with no long ability. your ability to assimilate is not that easy. it takes time and for the unemployment rate in sweden. generally speaking is 7%. for immigrant young men, it's over 40% in some areas.

was there a robust movement. was there backlash to immigration policy and lack of vetting over the past couple of years. are they -- is this an movement or how do you see the politics on the ground proceeding? well, the right -- the far right party in sweden called the sweden democrats, quite frankly, used to be a marginal political party. now it's one of the largest political parties in sweden. with elections forthcoming in the next year or so, i think that you'll see them do even better. i think that is part of the debate that the country is going to have. that is how do you maintain this openness and global embrace, which is part of the swedish dna, with a more rigorous vetting and immigration control policy so that folks like this are caught earlier.

at the same time, i thought it was very poignant that the swedish crown princess when asked how are we going to get through this, she looked at the camera and said together. when the sweeds say together, they're talking about a global approach. >> ambassador, thank you so much for being on the show. >> thank you for having me. >> greatly appreciated. we're talking about this offcamera beforehand. let's just talk about it on camera. too often. nationalism in europe is blurred uneditorial pages with white nationalism, but if you're french and you see the french culture under attack for 20-30 years. i mean, being french is far different than being american. we are identified by our immigrants. that's not the case in france. that's not the case in german. that's not the case in great britain. i don't understand why you can't

raise tough questions about the eu and the fact that they're border policy is insanity. it's in part suicidal. you let someone slip in one country and basically can go wherever they want. >> you heard what ambassador said. he said the far right wasn't really a political force. it strted to be more of a debate over the vetting procedures. you look at what's happening in france or germ in so many of these countries. it's really a populist backlash against imgrags graduation. it's mump more i feel immigration based in europe than maybe even here in the u.s.

that doesn't make you racist or bigoted. it's been painted with a broad brush for far too long. that's why we don't see election results coming because we paint it in these bold strokes and then when it happens, it's like, oh, they're just nazis. they're just fascist. no, they're just people worried about what happened in sweden. what happened in paris. what happened in brussels. what happened in london. could happen here. or there. >> i was in germany a couple of weeks ago. you do see elements of human nature coming to the floor in these countries. you see nit france with the election with the candidates. with stances on immigration and things like that. see it in germany and you will inevitably see in it sweden. the population comes to a

critical point between resentment of newcomers for jobs or whatever is in the minds and fear of the newcomer, given the terrorist activity. >> there's not another issue on the planet today where the divide between elites and everybody else. >> sometimes. >> still ahead. >> sometimes fear is rational. and if you are french. >> don't capitalize on it. >> if you are french, you shouldn't have to vote to feel like you're safe within your home or country. still ahead, tina brown joins the conversation. following hillary clinton's revealing comments at tina's womin the world summit. first, office politics takes its toll on the trump white house. ste b bannon and kushner meet to smooth things over. back after this. i want to get out of here. all the clicks and office politics. fluorescent lights and

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april 10. day after joe's birthday. with us onset. senior political analyst nbc news msnbc mark. and president of the counsel on foreign relations and author of world in disarray, richard. did you have a good birthday, joe. >> wonder fful birthday. have i a present for you. my chickens laid you eggs. laid yesterday. isn't that sweet. >> here you go. look at them. show the camera first. >> happy birthday. >> from now on going to be given away as departing gifts along with rice arony. >> let me show you nuggets eggs. they're different. >> nose are the names of what? >> the chickens. nuggets are blue. >> blue eggs. >> these and donna's are speckled. it's amazing. you're very lucky. laid yesterday. >> we were making omelets. i will be right here. it's going to be a sort of today

show. >> did you have a good birthday. >> wonderful birthday. let's talk about the news. so richard, everyone is complaining about nikki haley saying one thing. you've got tirllerson saying another thing. mcmaster is saying it's all consistent. are you listening more to mcmaster are sort of a sigh advance of big give and take in this administration. >> nothing to define. what we have are multiple goals. over a very different time horizontal. in the short run. we have to go after isis. we just acted against syrian use. the goal of ousting discovering of regime change is years and year away from us. i'm not quite sure why we're talking about it that much. can't make it happen. we're not ready for it. don't have something to put in place. what we should be focusing on is going after isis.

making sure the syrians don't use cw again. beginning to create a sunni opposition to take territory in syria and over the next couple of years, be able to be partners in getting rid of regime. >> kids at home, scoring with it. cw. chemical weapons. >>ot the network. two aides held lengthy meetings in mar-a-lago in an attempt to mend a rift that caused many to speculate a change in white house staff. according to "new york times," president trump himself ordered senior adviser jared kushner and steve bannon to work it out. white house chief of staff reince priebus organized the hour long meeting last friday. sources tell nbc news that priebu advisers to stop the back and forth. democrats will never run the white house. the comment roughers to both kushner and senior economic

adviser gary cohen believed to be bannon's rifle for power. >> separate this quickly. >> okay. this is so ridiculous. reporting of this has been so ridiculous. anybody that wants to bet against jared kushner and ivana trump, need only call corey lewandowski. this is stupid. some of the stupidest reporting i've seen in my life. the bannon. bannon may do this and we don't really know how this is going to turn out. just like steve bannon. i'm telling you the truth. steve bannon is isolated now inside the white house. everybody has run away from him. he made the mistake and nobody

knows why two weeks ago of starting to trash jared kushner and ivana trump. not a wise move, but he made that move. he is living with the ramifications of it. even past allies, so before you write your stories today about bannon's allies inside the white house, check your sources. okay. and if they're last name is not bannon, the sources are wrong. bannon is alone inside the white house. the other narrative. >> kind of looks like "saturday night live" character. >> reince priebus is in trouble or reince priebus was ever in trouble. no reason -- i'm a little animated here this early in the morning is because the reporting was just so wrong. you know, maybe bannon was leaking it about priebus to get

the troengs frattention from hi reince priebus is going nowhere. sbteve bannon probably going somewhere or slip into the word work of the white house and never be seen or heard from again. >> a lot of chaos in the white house 6789 one of the things that reebs reince priebince pri priebus has done well is seeing him do the work that needs to be done. >> the personnel stuff is important and it's interesting to people. they need to decide what they're going to do now. two week congressional recess. legislative agenda. what are they going do do about health care and taxes. that is to me the big question about how people like jared kushner and steve bannon, still there today. how do they get it up and running. >> this is why it matters, okay. this isn't just palace entry.

it's matters whether this is steve bannon's white house or whether jared kushner and kone and ivan can and being a powell and that group are helping inside the white house. the difference is bannon will say to people it's my vision. it's my white house. jared and ivanka will say. bannon does think he. >> that's human nature. human nature reading the lines of the steve bannon stories or in between the lines of every steve bannon story. you clearly have a man here who thinks he created a presidency. >> by the way, just going to stop you hehere for one second. trump people including the president of the united states can tell you to the day how many

days steve bannon has been around. and they give you the number of the day that steve bannon has been around. tell you exactly when the merciers came in. all of these johnny come latelies that claim they created donald trump. donald trump and everybody around donald trump will say oh, steve bannon created me. oh, he was around for -- and then they'll give the number of days. >> that's one level. then you take the jump into the white house. president donald trump and you have steve bannon still again, human nature, thinking that he because he created the presidency, it's now his job and he has the authority to mold and manipulate the presidency. yet, in terms of creating the presidency, all of us were present on that day, that night in manchester new hampshire when people weren't coming out of their homes and yet 6,000 people showed up at the verizon center in elm street in manchester. >> by the way, did they come out for steve bannon.

>> no, that's the point. not a lot of them. >> mercer was working for tred cruz at the time. >> they don't think anybody is going to come. the candidate is late. fighting to get there. >> cause you to go, 6,000 people. steve bannon was not even anywhere near there. he really does believe and he has believed it. i have create d donald trump okay. the congressman, steve bannon is the lynch pen to your energized

basis donald trump. steve bannon is the linchpin to your energized base. fought the snow in new hampshire. in february. when steve bannon was still, what, six months away from even working on the campaign. meanwhile deputy security adviser is being reassigned from her job after less than three months. and is likely to be nominated as ambassador to singapore.

since then flynn's ties have been called a flynn eraser led by national security adviser hr mcmaster. there's also reportedly a nickname going around the intel community okay in the white house for the holdovers for michael flynn. flynn stones because they're a page right out of history. i'm just telling you. so meet the flynn stones. if we look at what's happening inside the white house right now. steve bannon being taken off. being take off. dina powell going in. a measured response to what happened in syria thursday night. at least since thursday. there were a lot of people on the foreign policy community that have breathed a temporary,

temporary, i say, sigh of relief. looks like governing. >> yes. >> something we haven't seen a whole lot of lately. looks lieke governoring. i realize it's a couple of data points. people are feeling more comfortable. democratic response was in some ways more interesting than the republican response to the use of force against syria. all these people essentially worked for president obama distancing themselves from their former president. you are being the next big thing. john kerry came out immediately in support of what donald trump did. hillary clinton did. you had other people saying some things that were almost disloyal to barack obama. saying we could have never moved this quickly. he would have never moved. why were they doing that. why did they all come out in force and do that?

there was a lot of frustration. there was paralysis by analysis. in some ways such a tight center. the president, ben rhodes and a few others who tried to make the case what they did was a solution to the chemical problem when everyone knows it wasn't. history is going to be rough on this. this is going to be the defining moment for the obama presidency. going to be a moment in action. proves the point what you don't do can matter every much as what you don't do when you governor. all these people, sgreed at the time. probably thinking about that futures, but you know, essentially it showed also that president obama was something of a departure from the democratic foreign policy national security mainstream. still ahead on morning joe. egyptian christians are targeted in a serious of holy week bombings and isis is claiming responsibility. how that country and president trump are responding. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back.

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at least 43 people dead and 100 wounded after bombings in ejit. some of this foot animage is extremely disturbing. first struck in tanta. hours later a second blast outside saint marks cathedral in alexandria. this video captures the moment of the attack. choir singing. blast rips through the church. killing the video signal. other shows apparent suicide bomber being denied entrance into saint marks before blowing himself up. isis has claimed responsibility for the attacks, but nbc news has not been able to authenticate that claim. in the palm sunday address, pope francis condemned attacks and offered condolences to victims.

egyptian president sisi has declared three month state of emergency. president trump who hosted president sisi at the white house a week ago called his egyptian counter part last night offering condolences and condemning the attack. let's bring in msnbc for more context on this. this is obviously a devastating blow to christian community in egypt. the largest. it's also a set back. you may recall he was here last week. he met with president trump. really projects himself as law and order. this is now almost the third separate attack on churches in the country. underscores a lot of concerns that people had. you had isis which for the most part was localized in the

northern part of sinai peninsula 67 now if this claim of responsibility is in fact credible. carry can go out this attack against charges in the mainland of egypt is a massive setback. raise questions about the competency of the security forces. competence of the state to do what it says to people. to protect the christian minority. see the rage in egypt. people by the thousands taking to the street demanding that the government do more to protect the christian minority in that will country. this is trying time for the country. richard, obviously, donald trump has reversed the skepticism that the obama administration had towards sisi. we talk about that relationship and how you think it plays into

the bigger -- trump's bigger play in the middle east. >> well, in a sense you've had the united states almost, but not completely walk away from a conditional relationship with the egyptians. the obama administration was very worried about that human rights record, coming with me or against me politics. seen as very particular iolariz >> he's gone back. isn't that traditionally how we acted for 30 years. >> he is like him. we have going back to that. i think what this shows you is there is no amount of what you might call point or local defense that can make a society safe. >> i was going to say. if they pout -- i understand people protesting against sisi, but if somebody wants to put a bomb underneath a pew in a country as large as egypt. they're going to be able to do that regardless of the amount of

security. the one thing there, someone couldn't get into the church and still blew himself up. remember when israel was going through that. there is no way any society can keep itself safe every subway, every grocery store. eve every. we see that in russia. we could see it here, god forbid. this is something about a modern society. even authoritarian society. there's still lichlts to what you can do unless you can figure it out. that's incredibly hard. >> coming up on morning joe, china and u.s. giving themselves 100 days to work out one of the world's thorniest issues. how president trump's business background is factoring into trade talks. back with much more morning joe.

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you see obama giving state dinners to heads of delegation. we eat mcdonald's until we come to an agreement. do you agree? in the history of the world, there has never been a greater theft than what china has taken out of the united states.

the relationship developed by president xi and myself is outstanding. we look forward to being together many times in the future. i believe a lot of very potentially bad problems will be going away. president trump wrapped up his first meeting with chinese president xi jinping on friday. hailing, quote, tremendous progress in their prernl relationship. joining us now. calmness for the daily beast. gordon changchang. >> what we're seeing right now is an economy not growing at 6.7 percent base they claim. to the extent it's growing it's because of unprecedent amount of debt. we see they're accumulating debt five times faster than gross domestic product, even if you

believe the 6.7% number and political system is becoming much more coercive. >> richard, i remember talking to john huntsman probably five or six years ago. i said, what -- this was at a point where, you know, everybody was talking about china, number one economy, and i said what is the most important thing to do the leaders. if they can't deliver that, they understand they're in trouble. >> now they're saying it's high sixes. that's not real in part because so much of the growth is artificial growth. stimulated by government infusions of funds. what it tells you is the chinese government is free of widespread unemployment. unemployment will then lead to political instability. this is years the big party congress. xi jinping opportunity to consolidate political power. >> are they in a bubble right

now. is the economy a bubble. >> answer is several bubbles probably. several layers of the chinese economy growing at a rate not a natural rate. more because the government policy and anything happening from the ground up. >> what they did in 2008 was said we are not having a cession. we're not having an adjustment. they put an eanymonormous amoun debt into the system. created debt equal to the u.s. banking system. even though when they did that, their economy was less than one-third the size of ours. they avoided the recession. now property bubble, stock market bubble. all bubbles. got to have an adjustment downward sometime. >> nothing come out of friday and even by acknowledgment of two governments. the u.s. people don't like the status quo with china on trade and currency and trade. are they happy with the summit? >> they are happy that nothing gets done because they've got everything they want from the

u.s. relationship right now. if nothing is changed, they're okay. now trump has been talking about changing things immediately. he said that on may 1, with that terrible rape comment about china. he just postponed everything with the framework discussion, this 100 day plan. all of it is sort of like we're kicking the can down the road again. that is going to cause problems in places like western pennsylvania and michigan unless he can actually come up with a real sense of accomplishment in those places. i don't think he can. >> gordon, thanks so much. coming up on morning joe. delta arabirlines tries to get k on track. plus the decline of democracy. not just the dictators to blame. is the west responsible for aiding and abetting the problem? that's next on morning joe.

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ripping us off left and right with japan and saudi arabia and kuwait. if i ever was in office which is unlikely because i don't want to be, if i ever was. that would not happen. we wouldn't be taken advantage of the way we are. we're a debtor nation. we borrow money from japan in order to defend japan and we pay interest on that money. i think it's ridiculous. the country the united states is being ripped off and it shouldn't happen. >> about the enemies. the enemy you can't talk to easily. i'd make allies pay fair share. we're a debtor nation. ing in something is going to happen. your can't go on losing 200 billion and let japan come in and dump everything in our market. if you go to japan and try to sell something. forget about it. it's almost impossible. they don't have laws against it. just make it impossible. come over here and sell cars,

vcrs. i have tremendous respect for the japanese people. you can respect someone beating the held out of you. that's what you wanted and alex gave you for your birthday. >> donald trump in the late 1980s delivers consistent message of economic nationalism long before he met anyone named steve bannon. when i hear people saying if bannon is not there. donald trump is going to abandon economic nationalist message. ronald reagan was president when that was going on. cheers was like the number one show on television. courtship of eddies father was still on. >> the point is people always jockeyed about ronald reagan. he gave the same speech for 25 years. gave it well. >> ronald reagan began theater giving speeches around the country in 1950s.

giving the same speech in 1980s when he was president. >> that's donald trump giving the same speech as now. >> bring in kristen welker. what are you hearing this morning about the jockeying for position among trump's inner circle. >> reporter: good morning to you. here's what we know. this situation, this tension between steve bannon who you were just talking about. the president's chief strategist and his son-in-law jared kushner who are on opposite ends of spectrum seem to reach a boiling point. what happened. friday afternoon, chief of staff reince priebus had a meeting with both of them. lasted about an hour. and it was really aimed at trying to get them to bury the hatchet as one source told me. to get them to get on the same page. if you talked to folks who were familiar with that conversation after the meeting. the indication was all sides seem to be getting closer to being on the same page. the question is is that actually

going to last. how realistic is this. steve bannon is someone who seeing himself as the protector of the president's populist message. this economic nationalism you just talked about and you're right. president trump as citizen along time ago had been touting that type of messaging. bannon really sees himself as the person to protect him here inside the white house. then you have jared kushner. more left leaning. someone more global in approach. the two are at odds. can this actually hold. now, jared kushner is not going to be fired. he's the president's son-in-law. we've seen in role expanding in weeks. iraq with the joint chief of staff. steve bannon out there for national security counsel. the president thinking inside the white house likely won't have a big staff shake up before 100 days. fast approaching. he wants to see if this can really hold, but if it doesn't.

he may have to take action. >> thank you very much. one of the lasting and perhaps estimate damamost damag the obama administration is the syrian war. the president's agreement not to attack syrian targets in exchange for that country removing chemical weapons. clearly some of those weapons remain. as the "new york times" frames it. for obama, syria chemical attack shows risk of dictators. joining us. brian. how the west is aiding and abetting the decline of democracy. london school of economics. good to have you on board this morning. >> brian. thaun thank you so much for being with us. i see you on my twitter feed every 15 minutes. i retweet you every day or so. you have been making the

argument for some time that actually democracy is on decline for the first time in 70 years. obviously this did not begin on november 8. it's been long time coming. explain how the west is actually hurting the rise. >> testimony war has been less democratic and train is on the march. i argue in the book the west is aiding and abetting this decline. you think about it as a bias referee. we don't penalize saudi arabia enough and we also turn a blind eye to abuses in less important countries. set a really low bar. as a result the incentives are to do the bare minimum to achieve democracy in countries we don't care about. and countries we do care about, we're supporting dictators and regimes. when i was in bangkok, they were lecturing media freedom.

i'm worried donald trump rather than being biassed referee is being a cheerleader. if you look at twitter feed yesterday. he trusts sisi will do the right thing in egypt. this is a guy who retunely tortured. there's no second part of that statement that says we have a strategic relationship with him, but we do not agree with his human rights abuses and the fact he does not support democracy. >> mark. >> i can't imagine anyone being elected president of the united states who doesn't care about human rights. there must be countervailing forces. even president obama and president bush and clinton who talked more about human rights. trump didn't often emphasize size human rights. >> mocked secretary john kerry for caring about them. that's the only time he talked about them. compare that to talking about drou crowds. tweeted 246 times about crowds.

if you look at records in china and the middle east they didn't do much. they talked. >> the decline of democracy is a long-term trend. i'm worried trump is accelerating that trend. >> let's talk about though absent trump. prejanuary 20th. we can all look at twitter feed and see what he said about the press. we can all look at what he said about the independent judiciary and draw some of the same conclusions you have. what were we doing over the past 11 years. specifically what did obama not do. what did george w. bush not do. the great irony he was going to erase tyranny from all corners of the globe didn't turn out. >> the first when war was packaged as a way to export democracy, you ended up creating a problem in the sense that dictators say any sort of human rights pressure from the united states, any sort of pro-democracy pressure, is a trojan horse to create regime change.

the second aspect we set the bar really low. met with the head of a political party in madagascar. he says unlike the other parties, we're a party of values. so which values are those. gets the deer in the headlights like. i forgot the values in car. can somebody go get the values if the american. it was a total charade. i was the western police. he was the person supposed to say the right things. behind that hallow shell, there was nothing else. for over 100 countries in the world, they're trying to figure out how do we appease the state so they don't bother us and that got easier when trump was elected. >> let's focus on one element. you say america is in retreat around the world. are we in retreat or confused about our role in the world over the last years. and one other factor, dealing with nations, that pose a threat to civilization, you could say. element like in africa. elements of starvation and lack of water.

what role does all of this play in our former role in the world? >> sure, for the first part of your question. i think america is trying to figure out identity in the world. i think america first is one of those terms that is very difficult to say. is it isolationism. if it's isolationism. then it's russia and china first. america first think about core strategic interest. i would argue democracy is core strategic interest. we have an idea of stability. if you look at the political risk map of 2010, right, countries in green are countries like syria, of course, jordan, the united em rayient united ir called iran an island of stability weeks before the revolution. we continue to delude ourselves.

the book is how the west is aiding and abetting the decline of democracy. brian, thank you very much. this morning. things are beginning to get back to normal for delta. after five days of mass cancellations and delays. joining us now from reagan international airport. tom, how are things going to morning and how did they go so wrong for delta. >> yes, so far so good here. we have a beautiful blue sky day on theest coast. going to help the recovery effort. the question is what the heck happened. delta airlines like every other airline was dealing with the storm last wednesday that rolled through the southeast and atlanta airport was hit hard. of course that's a major hub for delta. 60% of flights cycle through atlanta airport and they simply couldn't catch up after that. they had 3500 cancellations over the next four days. 3700 delays. what does that mean, tens of thousands of passengers maybe

even hundreds of thousands inconvenienced and delta really was unable to catch up. part of the reason is really kind of interesting, guys. it's a little bit of a minutia into how airlines work. they have got to keep their pilot schedules so the pilots don't max out on number of hours they are up and awake and flying then they have to give them ten hours of down time between flights. as a result, they didn't have enough pilots. they were all trying to recover from too long of a day and had to give them enough down time. didn't have enough pilots and planes. couldn't get everybody back in position. this continued day after day after day. the airline actually was doling out cash yesterday. in one case giving $11,000 to a family who missed entire florida spring break vacation. hopefully today is recovery day. nbc tom costello, thank you very much. >> still ahead. >> just going to say we always joke in the south because you know, you always go through atlanta. after you die, wherever you're

going you have to go through atlanta first. i wonder if delta doesn't diversify. if there's thunderstorms over atlanta for a day, it really shuts down movement. >> that's their lesson now. >> i know they were building out cincinnati as alternative hub. they can't put it all in atlanta. >> that should be the second priority. their first priority should be to have the flight people, your flight has been cancelled. just tell you what's going on. >> priority right now is to go to break. still ahead on morning joe. >> it's unconscious. not like people say she's ambitious. she's successful therefore i don't like her anymore. >> please. freed by defeat and far more willing to speak bluntly. that's take away from conversation with hillary clinton at tina brown women in

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his worrying inner circle either work it out or move on. >> two words family wins. >> friction which can be really positive or completely unnecessary. bannon is on the unnecessary friction side. >> republican coalition. >> if steve bannon goes back to wherever he came from, donald trump will still be donald trump. >> there's a lot of chaos in this white house. how did they get the legislative agenda up and running. >> they have a rap port of sorts but a divide on policy. trump, though, as we've seen throughout his career is okay with these competing power centers. >> who is the last person in the room with donald trump? >> donald trump. >> swedish authorities say the suspect behind friday's attack was supposed to leave the country back in january. >> i thought it was very poignant that the swedish crown prince asked how are we going to get through this looked at the camera and said together. >> syria was a serious mistake that obama administration made. this was a discreet action in response to a use of chemical weapons to basically say no one can use chemical weapons with

impunity. >> trump's personality balances perfectly with generals who are methodical, buttoned up. >> ifs there's going to be future actions, and i hope there will be to elem nate the assad regime, has to be a well thought out plan presented to congress and make sure this is something not just unilateral by the united states. >> president trump wrapped up his first meeting with chinese president xi jinping. >> they have everything they want from the u.s. relationship right now. so if nothing is changed, they're okay. >> my chickens laid you some eggs. laid yesterday. happy birthday. >> that's your birthday present. did you like it? >> that was great. >> joining us now is founder of tina brown live media and the women in the world summit, tina brown. great to have you today. >> good to be here. >> wow. you really had quite a summit. hillary clinton. >> yeah. >> on stage. >> justin trudeau. >> talking. justin trudeau was great and hillary was great. >> she talked about her loss and why it happened and she was very

forthcoming with a number of different reasons. alex, do we have that bite? all right. we'll have that. we'll show that in just a second. >> she also timeliness of what she said she would have done with assad just hours before donald trump did the same thing. >> that was really remarkable. >> striking. >> she was so strong about bombing those airfields in syria. i mean she -- i felt she was like sending that message out loud and clear and it was remarkable how within an hour of us saying it or a couple hours it happened. whether she knew ahead of time it might happen or just simply was a boiling reaction all over the foreign policy establishment who knows. she certainly said it loud and proud. >> and here she is talking about her defeat. >> i am deeply concerned about what went on with russia and i think it's important that we all work together, regardless of party or partisanship or

anything else, we start acting like patriotic americans, because a foreign power meddled with our election. the outside intervention, the combination of the comey letter on october 28th, wikileaks which played a much bigger role than i think many people understand yet, had the determine native effect. certainly misogyny played a role. that just has to be admitted. and why and what the underlying reasons were, is what i'm trying to parse out myself. >> so in all that parsing out she gets comey, russia and misogyny, does she ever talk about herself not going to wisconsin? running a campaign that everybody close to her just vis rated? >> she said at the top there were multiple reasons and clearly there were. but, you know, she also talked

about something very interesting. i loved the phrase, she mentioned the weaponization of information. it was a startling phrase. >> did she ever blame herself? >> she did. she said the campaign we had made many mistakes and she did say there were things they did that were wrong but she was being asked to itemize some of the things she felt from the outside had really affected things. and i think she was right about the misogyny piece. she did talk about how when she left the state department she had a 64% approval rating but as soon as she began to run for office she was turned into typhoid mary and she said it wasn't even fair for typhoid mary. >> a lot of people said afterwards why didn't we see that hillary on the campaign trail. i would say she was rarely given the opportunity to speak like that. at the end of the day -- >> she never would. >> it's not only that though. >> but it is that. listen, people always complain about donald trump being on this show. hillary clinton literally we could have gotten -- we seriously could have gotten john

lennon and jesus on this show easier than hillary clinton. >> i think that was a mistake. >> she was the most buttoned up candidate we've come across the most fiercely protected. it was impossible to get her to be herself. >> i think here's the thing, in the debates she was phenomenal but in interviews she was always in a position over the darn e-mails. the things is in the end -- >> so frustrating. >> it buttoned her up and they made a mistake not putting her on the shows. it was a huge mistake of the campaign not to unbutton her in that sense but she was in a position because she was constantly under attack for the e-mails which was in the end look back on it insane. when she's freed she was on an amazing intellectual job on women in the world. able to rock and roll with her mind which we rarely see. >> what did she say about bernie sanders? >> she didn't get into bernie sanders. she didn't get into obama. i don't think that hillary will ever go there with regard to any of those kind of criticisms. i think she was much more

focussed on what she called the hurt that donald trump was doing particularly to women. the onslaught against women. >> where do you think she is in the process of accepting that she lost? >> oh, i think she's over it. i really do. >> you never get over it. >> you never get over it, of course, and she said doesn't matter how tough of skin you have, every time it happens to you it hurts. every day she gets up she wants to throw things at the tv screen but at the same time she's not collapsed. we've seen candidates, you know, who grow beards and disappearpp. >> she has not yesterday. >> not going to do that. >> she has personally healed. >> yeah. >> is she a happy camper about it? >> is she going to run for mayor of new york? >> i don't think hillary will run for office again. i think she's not out of the picture. she's definitely going to still be a power and a voice. >> check your snapchat. for joe's birthday ari gave him this book, every "new york times" headline since like whenever. >> since i was born.

>> since you were born. >> no, it's a headline on my birthday. >> what would your birthday be without cake? >> i found out when -- >> dance music. >> when i was 2 years old, the day she passed -- >> let's do it. >> what are you talking about? ♪ >> they passed medicare on my birthday. here we go. come on now. >> yeah. >> i'm getting out of here. >> happy birthday, joe. >> happy birthday. >> don't touch me. >> so nice. >> don't touch me. >> happy birthday. ♪ >> don't touch me. thank you. >> thank you, jack. happy birthday, joe. happy birthday, joe. happy birthday. >> there we go. >> more frisky. come on. >> stay away. stay away. i don't know who you are but i have a feeling. >> frisky. >> all right. that does it for us this morning. go. more frisky. more frisky. >> we're out of here. alex, get us off now. >> okay. less frisky, what you're getting here. good morning.

i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning much to cover. red lines russia and iran vow to hit back with force if the u.s. strikes syria again, as syria defiantly launches planes from the air base targeted by the u.s. >> here's what i think assad is telling trump by flying from this base. f you. >> the secretary of state warning russia as he heads there this week. >> every time one of these horrific attacks occurs, it draws russia closer in to some level of responsibility. >> and west wing intervention. the president trying to quell the civil war inside his administration telling steve bannon and jared kushner to work it out as another mike flynn ally is forced out. internal affairs, fox news hires a law firm to look into allegations of sexual assault against bill o'reilly as "saturday night live" takes another really take with a double dose of alec