their doors now. we don't always lock our doors out here, everybody is going to lock their doors, they're going to bring their car keys in the house, they're going to probably keep a rifle by their bed just in case somebody decides to copy cat. i mean, this is not the way we think and we live out here. >> we are hearing approximately 25 people are deceased. the shooter is among the deceased. we have no nature on the motivation of the shooting and no estimation on the number of injured so far. i want to bring our panel back into the conversation, clint van isn't a, jim cavanaugh and malcolm nance. jim, to you first, unbelievable number there, 25 people dead. what does that tell you? >> a determination by the shooter, preparation, most likely could have been done by a handgun, most likely a long gun, lots of ammo, an escape plan, it

wasn't something spur of the moment, the killer came in with the contention of taking out his plan on the congregation of that church. and it begs the question, of course, why that church? you know, if he's from some other location, which you've discussed with other witnesses, and he was apprehended or killed in guadeloupe county or the next county north, why that church? he probably would have driven past many christian churches on a sunday morning in that part of south texas. so there's some connection to that church, there's some reason to go to that church. what is that? is that a personal reason? is he trying to get back at someone there? is it family-related? is it hate? you know, what dylann roof did, he drove many miles to get to the mother of emmanuel church to commit his act because it was, it was much a political

assassination of the reverend as it was a hate crime. there are motivations that could have a lot of reasons, but there is a reason in the killer's mind that he went to that church. and we hopefully will hear from police what that reason is. >> malcolm, let me ask you quickly about the shooter that jim was talking about. when you look at the death toll now confirmed by the wilson county sheriff, at least 25 people killed. multiple others injured. what does that tell you in terms of the space of where this shooting took place? that somebody was able to carry out this kind of deadly rampage, does it say anything about the profile of the shooter? is this somebody that is going to be comfortable with, perhaps, semiautomatic weaponry as we heard from the eyewitness who described it as semiautomatic weaponry? >> well, the individual may or may not have training, but it doesn't matter. i think in a circumstance like that, this shooter is just

intent on destroying human beings. and, you know, many of these shooters have never killed or injured anybody. have never served in the armed forces. and when they come in, they come in with a blood lust. and once they hear the loud bangs, it's just them and the object in front of them. and i doubt that many even aim. they just pore through the tightly-packed crowds that are in these pews. and i'm not sure whether that tells us anything about the individual or those who intended to kill as many people as possible. killing 25, we just had a shooter kill almost 60 american citizens. and now we're 25 more in a church. and this just tells us the nature of the lone shooters and active shooters, is that you cannot predict them. and even if you have a handgun, you may be one of the victims, and you may -- you know, it is very, very hard to stop these things. >> let me just read really

quickly for you a statement that we have gotten from the mayor of san antonio, mayor ron newenberg. he says, it is a south day for south texas. i'll read the part here that relates to the shooting that has taken place. actually, let me read the whole thing for you, the first part. it's a south day for south texas. learning about the road rage shooting this morning was heartbreaking. our city's thoughts and prayers are with the family of this young san antonioan and we ask for your help in identifying the vehicle in question. the mass shooting in sutherland springs is further alarming. the investigation is ongoing and our community stands with wilson county in prayer. to have such a violent act occur in place of worship magnifies the pain for the communities at large. san antonio holds our neighbors in prayer. this is a statement from the mayor of san antonio ron niren ber nirenberg echoing the sentiments of national politicians and the president, who is monitoring the situation, as well as expressing

his condolences to what happened here in texas. >> putting this in perspective here, everybody, we are now learning this is the deadliest mass shooting at a house of worship ever, which is just unbelievable to think about. clint, let's go with what malcolm was talking about, sort of the scope of all this. when you think about the vegas shooting and how 58 people lost their lives in vegas with thousands of people there at a concert, and now this small town in texas, this small church, the deadliest shooting at a house of worship in this country ever, 25 people losing their lives. that is just an unbelievable number. >> well, let me put on my fbi profiler hat and tell you that a lot of people in this country around the world are not original thankers, criminals are not original thankers, by my account, there's been over 60 mass shootings this year where one or more people have died.

the shooting that took place at a tennessee church in september where one was killed, seven were wounded, the killer, the shooter left a note in his car and said it was in retaliation for the charleston church shooting. so there are people who sit on that edge of the emotional abyss and look for somebody's behavior and say, that's a way to get even. whether anger, frustration, rage, whatever motivates an individual to do it. the more we see of these, the more we're going to have, because as you had an eyewitness on scene who reported her fear of copy cats, this is what we see. we see people who see these terrible acts of violence, see these horrible body counts that we get, and they say, a hah! that's the way i'm going to act out, too. so is it guns? yes. is it magazines? yes. is it a mentality in our country

where violence is a means of conflict resolution? that's also and challenge. and if we don't start addressing that from grade school all the way up to adulthood, unfortunately, we keep seeing these things. >> guys, stick with me for a second because i want to update some information we are now getting from our local affiliate, woai, they are now confirming ten gunshot victims being treated at san antonio university hospital. we also have learned from them that four victims have been sent from another hospital to the university there, six directly on the way to the university hospital, including five adults and unfortunately one child. we are getting more on the number of fatalities told to us as being confirmed as 25, but we are now getting a scope of the fact that there were more than a dozen or so injured as a result of a gunshot victim.

the eyewitness told us she saw multiple air lifts take place from the vicinity of the church, that helicopters were landing there to medivac some of those being treated on the scene. if you are familiar with the various trauma capabilities of southwestern san antonio in that area, but certainly something like this is going to be, when you look at the fact that 25 people were killed, a dozen or so injured, some perhaps severely, in a small community like this, it is going to be taxing and draining for the resources, not only of local ems and first responders, but of the region as well. >> you're right, ayman. but texas, they are as good as it gets. listen, we had our guys all shot up at waco, four dead, scores of them shot. some of them had, you know, ten, 13 bullet holes in them in the emergency surgeons there in waco and at the trauma centers. they patched them all up and saved so many of our guys.

and they are doing that here, too, i'm sure. anybody they can save that doesn't have an immediate fatal wound. i mean, they're going to be doing it. san antonio is pretty close. it's the next county. bexar county. if you survived the shooting and didn't have a fatal wound, they'll be able to save you. but these wounds, if it's a rifle, we don't know for sure, but if it's a rifle, those wounds are devastating. the discussion you talked about in las vegas with 58 dead, as clint mentioned, there's 540 or more people wounded in that. 540 -- that's only a month ago. so we had 600 people shot in one incident and month ago by a guy using a device as a bump stock on 12 different guns it looks like, i think that's correct, he had a number of them anyway in the hotel room, and he went from one to the other. and we can't get even the congress to give us one sentence

to say that yount have bu can't stocks or they have to be registered under machine guns. >> to put it in perspective just of the proportionality of it, you were talking 600 people shot in a city as big as las vegas. this is a community that is as low as 300 people, probably as high as 600 people, and you're talking about 25 people killed in a single incident in a community of about 300 people. >> unbelievable. >> and this is unbelievable. these are within 35 days of each other, i think october 2nd was las vegas. we are watching the slaughter in america. are political leaders doing anything at all to stop it? there's no one thing that can stop it. but if we look at the history in america of the gun laws, every time we had something horrific, the congress would step in. and they would do something about it. you know, the national firearms act, the law to regulate machine

guns and silencers and those gangster-type weapons was pass in 1934 during the dillinger days after the roaring '20s, 1934, the public said, we've had enough, we don't want this. the act was passed. and in the '60s, john f. kennedy killed, dr. king, robert kennedy assassinated, gave us the semimole act, the '68 gun control act. >> jim -- so often when these sorts of things happen, we continuously here, do not politicize this situation. we need to mourn the victims. we can't necessarily talk about the gun laws. we can't talk about that sort of thing or changing the gun laws or whatever side of the aisle you stand on or way you think about this issue, whether you think there should be more out there or whether the churches should have security measures, should have people in place that carry guns or you think nobody should have them, we are urged

to not politicize, to not talk about it. and then a week or ten days pass and we're talking about something completely different. >> right, well, you were urged to do that about connecticut and florida. reasonable laws need to be passed, but allowing the bump stocks where you can virtually, the rifles can turn into a machine gun. it may not be the exact rate of fire that the gun would be originally designed as a machine gun, but it is pretty close. a distinction without a difference. and congress won't give a sentence on that. that's fundamentally a problem in america. and it won't fix every shooting. that's the argument they make. well, seat belts won't stop every car fatality either, but we need to do better on all these things. we need to work on all of these fronts and try to do a little

bit better. yes, ayman, you're right, this community of littletown, 25 dead, more wounded. and people live with the wounds. these are not wounds that you just get and you're in the hospital a couple days, oftentimes you're paralyzed or lose a limb. >> it changes your life for sure. >> it is absolutely awful. >> as we look at the images of people here are completely in shock and hugging one another. you can see how close this community is. and i can't even imagine being there, the population of 300 to 600 people. 25 members of that community gone. >> and we're still awaiting to hear from officials, perhaps in the coming hours we'll hear more from them in the official capacity of a news conference of sorts, but obviously a lot of family members, either from the community or outside the community, are probably asking about their friends and family that may have been at that church. >> absolutely. >> and just very quickly before we go, we'll take a quick break, but i wanted to read this from richard blumenthal, senator richard blumenthal who tweeted, horror, heartbreak, what a

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welcome back, everyone. you are looking at the church where a massive shooting has taken place. we heard from joe tackett confirming the number of fatalities, what a lot of people feared, a staggering number. 25 people killed, 25 people killed in that shooting this morning during a service that was taking place at that church. we are also getting confirmation there were several people wounded as a result of gunfire. at least ten, some of them

evacuated to university hospital in san antonio. giving you really a sense of the scope of the fatalities and casualties that took place in what one eyewitness said was a very short period of time around 11:30 a.m. this morning local time. this is a situation that continues to unfold, but we are getting reactions from the president of the united states and local officials. i'm start with the governor of texas. governor greg abbott. putting out a statement a short while ago saying, while the details of this horrific act are still under investigation, cecelia and i want to send our sincerest thoughts and prayers to all those who have been affected by this evil act. i want to thank local enforcement for their response and want to pray for the community during this time of mourning and loss. >> and the president tweeting earlier from abroad on the first day of his 12-day trip abroad to asia, may god be with the people of sutherland springs, texas. the fbi and law enforcement are on the scene.

i'm monitoring the situation from japan. also important to note that authorities are telling us children are among the victims of the shooting at this church. just to give you a sense of the scope, if you are just joining us, we are hearing that a population of this town between 300 and 600 people, so relatively small. and 25 victims. so just imagine the impact that this type of shooting will have on a small town like this one. i want to bring back our panel, clint van zant, jim cavanaugh and malcolm nance. malcolm, we are getting a lot of reaction from our leaders from congressmen, senators, the president from abroad, what does this community think from your vantage point, need to hear from them right now? >> well, they are hearing the things that they need to hear, which is that they have, they essentially have the community's back. they are with them in their thoughts and prayers. and you're going to see the governor come down without a doubt. and offer up whatever resources

they can. but for the victims, you know, the family of the immediate victims, there's almost nothing that will be able to console them. what they really need is, they're going to need answers and want to know why. why did this killing happen? was it senseless? what was its nature? was it political or personal in any way, shape or form? that's what they really want to know to give them some closure on this act. >> let's talk about the possible weapon that may have been used in this shooting, malcolm. ayman talking to someone earlier who thought it was a semiautomatic from the way the rounds were coming. and jim, also, talking about bump stocks and how that has been a controversial topic post-vegas shooting, 58 lives lost there. when you hear a number like 25 inside of a small church, and then you put together a witness saying, thinking that it was a semiautomatic, what is your

hunch here? >> well, you know, i'm certain, you can use a semiautomatic weapon without a bump stock to get just the exact same effects that you have here. you can use a handgun. i find it very interesting, when the witness made that statement about an hour ago, saying there were ricochets and they wanted to get back inside their store. that gave me a hint that this was a high-caliber rifle, you know, 5.56, that's a high-powered weapon. they will travel through the building, go off poles or fall out into the street, 500, 600 yards away. so that indicates that it is not a handgun. but we don't know that. there's a lot of handguns out there right now, even of regular glock pistol, you can have the shooting capacity of an ar-weapon. these ar-weapons, you can have a

100-round magazine, 90-round magazine, some as high as -- depending on what they have, 200. but it doesn't matter what the firearm is. it's the fact that, you know, these average weapons, which they now call the new rifle of the minuteman, the ar-15, these average weapons, which they can use in texas for hunting hogs and very meaarmenting can happe those who want to kill. >> and this happening in a house of worship, being completely unaware, that sort of adds to all of this. and i want to bring people up-to-date as to what we are looking at right now. we believe to this be the car of the shooter. so obviously, investigators are honing in on this to figure out the motive we are all asking about, why would someone walk into the church and kill 25 people. that is not confirmed. as you know, this is a developing story, so things

change by the minute, but we do believe that the image that you are seeing to be the car of the shooter. i want to bring in pastor paul buford from the river oak church not far from the church. pastor, i appreciate you joining me this afternoon. such an incredibly tragic day for that community. how are you doing? >> well, we're doing as well as can be expected under the circumstances. this is a very small and close-knit community. and it's devastating news, of course. our church is two miles down the road. and we have family that is go back and forth between the two churches because it's been around for a long time. so any names that come out of that building, we're going to know. we're set up right now about two blocks away from the church at our community center. and we have the family members coming here and friends and this is where our point of ministry

here is, to be able to minister to them and to be able to deal with the official news for the families. so we want to be here for them when that happens. and when that goes on. >> pastor, talk to me about what you know about this church, the congregants, the people that attend this church, how big it is, if you knew this was a time of service, what more you know about this house of worship. >> oh, yeah. well, you know, this first baptist church of sutherland springs, we are river oak church of sutherland springs. and the pastor there is my friend along with everybody else in there. so we work together in the community. we do events together. so -- everything is very well-known here. it was in the middle of a church service, the normal regular sunday morning church service. we were in the middle of our church service. i was in the middle of preaching when we had some phone calls with the news that there was an active shooter or shooting going on at first baptist church.

we did have a sheriff's deputy that comes to our church who immediately left along with nurses and some other first responders that took off to go. we knew immediately the best thing that we could do is stay out of the way, let the official people do their thing, and begin to pray. so that is what we did as a church, as our church, for our friends. as soon as we heard that, we knew that we were going to knew people involved in it. >> pastor, i want to ask you about a point that you just mentioned, that you knew the pastor at first baptist church. can you give us an update? have you had a chance to speak with him? >> i have not had a chance to speak with him, but i have spoken with someone who has. he and his wife are out of town at the time, and they are on their way back here now. and that's about as much as we know for that. so very devastating news for him

to hear for his church. >> i wanted to ask you as well, do you know the condition of their daughter? is their daughter okay? i understand that she may have been inside the church. >> i do not have that information. i don't know anything for sure, and i would not say anything until there is something confirmed that comes out from the official authorities down there. the texas dps is in charge of the scene. and they are the ones that are doing all the release, the official release. i know that -- we have families here at the community center who already know and have the news. it's not going out until the official capacity makes sure that any of the relatives have been notified. so we're not letting that out. so we're doing grief counsel right now with some of the members of the church and for family and friends here in trying to coordinate that. we have red cross and south texas regional area counsel emergency services here along

with chaplains and pastors from every church in the area. and so we're -- as news comes in, as we get official or the families get official news, we're logging everybody in. and as they get official news, we're here to counsel them and help them. we have food and water and everything able to the families, too. >> pastor, let me ask you quickly, if i can, you know, there's obviously a lot of conversations about security at churches, and as somebody who leads a congregation, have you had that discussion previously given what had happened in places like south carolina and tennessee about security at your church? and is this a conversation that churches in this country should be having? >> well, it seems that it's going -- it's going to be more and more that we need to have some kind of discussion about it. you know, there is evil in the world. jesus himself spoke about it and said that these things were going to happen. but he also told us that we

don't overcome evil with evil, we overcome evil with good. and immediately after something evil like this happens, we see the good. and if you were here to see the number of people that are here just standing around waiting, ready, to just be given a command to help in some way. i asked for phone chargers a little while ago, a guy headed to a store to bring back phone chargers for the families so they don't -- so they have their phones right with them. the local grocery stores are giving us anything that we need, the local gas stations are giving us anything that we need. and that is the type of community that this is. because that's the love that overcomes the evil that we have in this world. you know, we mourn for the people that have died in the church, but we know those people, and i know that those people knew their lord and savior. and i know that the bible tells us to be absent from the body and be present with the lord. while we mourn, just like jesus

mourned when his friend lazarus di died, he knew the power of god and we know that he's there for them right now. >> for those watching that knew the 25 people whose lives were taken, what is your message about the motivation? >> i'm sorry? >> what is your message to the people living in the community whose hearts are breaking, knowing that the 25 people are now dead, whatever the motivation of the shooter turns out to be? >> well, you know, motivation is not going to change the facts. so what we have to do is just say, you know, as a family and a community, we trust in our faith here. we trust in the faith of the people that were in this church. and i say to anybody in our community here listening, that pastors, people of the community and everyone in this area, and we know that extends all the way

into san antonio where the bexar chaplin is out here with us. they are standing ready to do whatever it is that we need to do to help these families and get them through this time, be it feed them, bring food for them, take care of their kids while parents are dealing with stuff, whatever we need to do, we know that this community, which is a family, stands ready, willing and able to provide the services. and if we can't provide it, we know we can reach out and get it. >> all right, pastor paul buford from river oak church, our thoughts and prayers are with you and everyone arvegtffected everyone. in the wake of evil, sometimes we see the best of humanity. so sir, our very best to you and everyone there. >> that's for sure. we are here to minister and to help these people. so thank you, guys. and god bless y'all. and thank everyone for their prayers and thoughts in all of this. >> stay with us, everybody, as

we follow this developing story out of sutherland springs, texas, where 25 people are dead after a shooting in a church there. we'll bring you up-to-date after the break. keep it here. like i ed to. i even accept i have a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. but whatever trail i take, i go for my best. so if there's something better than warfarin, i'll go for that too. eliquis. eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus had less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis had both. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily... ...and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. i'm still going for my best.

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welcome back, everybody. we are following a developing story out of sutherland springs, texas, where a church shooting has taken place. i want to bring everybody up-to-date as to what we know so far, what has taken place since that shooter walked into that church and opened fire on the occupants of that church. at around 11:30 a.m. central time, a shooter opened fire in a church of 50 or 60 occupants in the sutherland springs community. just about 40 mile east or so of san antonio, texas. we have confirmation that 25 people have been killed. that's according to the wilson county commissioner, that's including the suspect who was chased down by police there. that is about half of the congregation. and just to put this sort of in perspective for everybody, we understand that the population

of this community quite small, about 300 to 600 people or so. so the scope of this is just incredible. around 24 or so people in the church injured along with the 25 people killed. at least sick visix victims wer taken to the hospital and medivaced from the scene. we can confirm ten gunshot victims with being treated at san antonio university hospital. four victims were sent to another university hospital. the victims are also including a child. the fbi and atf are both responding. to thinking about the scope of this, 25 people dead, including children. just making this even more tragic than we already know that it is. the motive and the identity of the suspect, so far, unknown. we want to bring back malcolm nance with us the last few hours covering the developing story

out of texas. malcolm, just to bring people up-to-date just joining us and turning on their televisions and hearing about the tragic situation in texas, where does the investigation go from here? >> well, right now as you can see, quite possibly, the gunman himself is dead. according to local authorities. and they are going to be, essentially, tearing his world apart. they will start right there as cliff van zandt said earlier, they will go through his wallet, find out who he is, where he's from and send teams up to his house. they're going to have a search warrant executed. and check it for bobby traps and then figure out what was the motivation for this. was it personal? did he know someone there? was it, you know, a form of, you know, domestic violence? because we often see that where people go and shoot, not only their ex-partner, but other people. was it terrorism? was this person from a political bent of some kind, whether

religious or political? all of these things are the mysteries that are missing right now that give meaning to the families. and it will also give us context as to why a man would come into a church with a semiautomatic rifle or pistol with an extended-type magazine and kill 25 people and wound a dozen others. >> and jim, do we have jim cavanaugh as well? jim, i want to bring you in to this conversation as well. how do we bridge the gap considering that we now have a dead shooter here who can't be interviewed by authorities to fill those holes in order to figure out the motivation here? >> yeah, just like malcolm said, they'll know everything about him. clint talked about it earlier, the behavioral analysis agent, the psychological profile, psychological autopsy, i'm sorry, psychological autopsy when the guy is deceased, go back 90 days, 6 months before the crime, and what's this guy

about? why did this happen? you know, is it tied to some other crime? it could be random. you have to remember that sometimes these things can be absolutely random. he picked a crowd. it was driving around to pick a crowd. we just don't know. but he has a reason, yasmin. he has a reason he went to that church. and that's why authorities got to uncover his reason. it may not make sense to us, but he's got a reason. and so they're going to get that. it's going to be all about who he is, all about what he's been doing in the last three to six months, the effects of things in his life. was something breaking up? was it a personal grudge? you know, a domestic with something in the church. did an ex-wife get kids there? is he mad at the church? is it a random attack on a congregation because he wanted to kill people? is it a hate crime because he was targeting the makeup of the church? is it an anti-christian attack? those happen as well. could he be attacking

christians? all these are open questions. the authorities, though, are diving into that now and the first answer begins with the identity of him. like i always say, in his wallet. we watch the forensic crime scene shows and it gets very interesting and entertaining and sophisticated, and we've got lasers flying all around and giant computers spinning all around, but i'm beginning to tell you what, basic police work happens. we drag the wallet out of his pocket and say, is this joey smith and this is where he lives and get going. that's how it all begins. he stopped, you know, one of the big answers this afternoon is, he stopped, the killing stopped. there's a lot of heartache in texas tonight. and that is going to go on. and then this investigation is going to go on. and then we are all left -- i'm sorry, go ahead. >> clint, what does it tell you that from what we're hearing from authorities that this guy ran? he was chased down by police.

what type of guy walks into a church, opens fire, kills 25 people, injuries several others and then runs? >> well, we have done a lot of handwriting based upon las vega. but we are finding out that this was a depressed narcissistic man who had a lot of gambling losses. and his father was on the list of the ten most wanted fbi fugitives. i am guessing he wanted to do something more notable in his mind than his father did, but it's taken us a while to put that together. but as jim suggests, on this individual, we're going to find out quickly. we're going to find a note, we're going to find his wallet, we'll find internet communications and things. this is a guy who had nowhere to run to or nowhere to hide. that he left the scene, means that the reality is, he either shot or killed every other person within that church. that's devastating. you think of anybody who went to

a house of worship yesterday or today, you look to your left or you look to your right, one of you, two of you, every other person was shot or dead. this guy, he may have ran out of ammunition, simply after he emptied the magazines that he had, but i would suggest that when you do that, you know you've got nowhere to run to. you've got nowhere to hide from this. but that might have been within his criminal or mental dna to do that. but i would suggest by the time the day is out, we're -- we're going to hear about a motive, but we're all going to say, but i don't understand. and that is the problem in the 60 or more mass shootings that we have had this year with one or more people killed. we may get the a-ha phenomena, i get what he did but we don't get why. we don't want to necessarily understand what makes a person like that tick.

from the profiler's perspective, we want to find out so we can stop a person, somebody else from doing that in the future. but just as human beings, we don't ever want to accept that behavior as normal. >> you don't want to understand that evil, but as you say, the important point is, you want to figure out what motivates someone to walk into a church and do this and open fire on all these innocent people in order to stop it from happening once again. but just taking a breath and a moment to think about, clint, what you just said, that this guy may have walked into this church, opened fire, which person, excuse me, may have walked in and opened fire and killed every single person. and that is not confirmed, clint is just saying that, considering the scope of it all, but if, in fact, that's the case, that is just completely unbelievable. and we don't even necessarily know the timeline yet. we don't know if this person took their time, if this person walked in, had a conversation with people, and then opened fire as dylann roof did at the emmanuel ame church.

dylann roof walked into the church and had a conversation with people, he was acknowledged by people and invited into the church and told to join them in their worship. we don't know if that happened here. there's so many unknowns in this, but then thinking about the body count is just unbelievable. i think we can all say. hearing from a spokesman from the connolly memorial center in texas, she say that is we saw eight patients total, four were transferred out to university hospital in san antonio for a higher level of care, two were discharged and two are still being treated at connolly memorial medical center. so we're getting that update with regards to the victims transported there. clint van zandt, malcolm nance, jim cavanaugh, i want to bring in the mayor whom i have on the phone, i believe. are you there? >> i am. >> thank you for joining us. our hearts go out to your community just 40 miles from

your city. what are you hearing more? >> well, we have been able to confirm at this point there's been a shooting and a major loss of life. we do have victims being transported or have been transported to area hospitals to receive life-saving care, we hope. it's a very tragic situation. and there's active investigation happen right now. we are asking for people's patience and prayers for the victims. we know our young people as well. so this is a tragic day in texas. >> mayor, talk to me about when you first learned about this, how it all unfolded for you, where you were and i'm sure information like this, it trickles in as it happens. first it is two people, four people, now 25 people. talk to me about the timeline for you, and then approximately 25 victims, talking about the timeline that you heard and

when, when you called the area hospitals to say, all hands on deck, we have victims headed in this direction. >> well, we have an active fusion and public safety headquarters. we have regional strategic situations for emergency teams in south texas. we have issues outside of our jurisdiction if we are called to assist. i got a phone call here about noon to let me know what had occurred. and the response from our local first responders and area hospitals. i was on my way to a museum to read books to children and got the phone call, so obviously it's heartbreaking to know that this is happening in our community, any community. and again, we're just asking for people's patience and prayers. we'll get through this as we do, but it's going to be an ongoing

situation, at least for the near future. >> mayor, standby for a second. i'm getting a tweet from your governor that i want to read for everybody who says, i'm in route to sutherland springs to meet with families, local, state and federal officials and a public briefing to follow. we are awaiting that press conference, but to hear more about the person who walked into this church, of course, and the victims as well, the people that have been affected, the families that have been affected in this community altogether. so certainly anticipating that press conference there and the arrival of the governor, at a time when this town really needs it. from what you know, mayor, how many survivors? how many victims are in your area hospitals? i know you have a lot of hospitals in san antonio, texas. i don't know the number, but i know you've got a lot. >> yeah. we do. i've been told roughly about 15 were transported to area hospitals. we want to caution, because this is a very dynamic situation. we don't want to provide any

information that is inaccurate out of respect for law enforcement and first responders and the families who are affected. but i've been told roughly about 15 patients transported. we don't know their condition. and again, those numbers and conditions may change. >> mayor, have you heard anything about the shooter? from your van teenage poitage p your perspective? >> not at this time. at this point we are told it was a single shooter. and after, you know, hearing briefly, he was shot dead. >> this town, this community has been described as a small rural safe community with farmers, it's quiet, a place where people don't necessarily have to lock their doors. obviously, this church, the majority, a lot of the community is attending this church. this was during a daily service. talk to me more about this community from what you know. >> well, wilson county,

guadeloupe county, that whole area is more rural area, but it's bordering a big city. so it's close-knit. and people know each other, people know their neighbors, and they lookout for one another. and this is tragic no matter where it happens. and certainly we feel the pain here in san antonio, which is a very large metropolitan, but we have neighbors and family and friends who live throughout these outlying areas that are a little more rural. it is a place where you still wave to people as they drive by. and this is, again, just a sad day in texas. it's just another on the long list of a growing list, unfortunately, of incidents that tell us we live in a different world than we did 15 or 20 years ago. >> we are hearing multiple reports of the population of this community, some say 300, some say 600, do you by any chance know the general

population of this town, considering the lives lost, the 25 lives lost? >> i don't. but i will tell you that, you know, if the estimated population is in the 500 or 600s, it's not unusual for the outlying areas, there's a lot of smaller jurisdictions in the county areas of the san antonio, outside the san antonio area in the local counties. and this is pretty typical for small town texas in our area. >> so a huge loss of life, obviously, for this community, no matter how or which way you spin it, considering the way you describe it and the way people know each other's names and wave hello to one another, they know people coming and going. and some of the conversations, mayor, that we have been having on air with some security officials, considering the atmosphere in which we now live, a lot of bigger cities having security officials at their houses of worship, thinking back to some of the other shootings that have taken place at churches around this country, is

this something that you have, in your churches in san antonio and beyond? >> i can't really speak to that because we have hundreds if not thousands of churches in church antonio. i will tell you that the spirit of our community at san antonio, texas, is not one in which we're going to give in to the grip of fear. we're going to live our lives and be proud of the way we live and getting to know each other and we simply can't let tragedy change who we are at texans and americans, but, you know, ironically the city council of san antonio just last week had a briefing from our emergency operation center that responds to natural and manmade emergencies and we talked about situations like this and the most pressing, you know -- the

most -- the biggest takeaway for a lot of us in the room is this is an unfortunate part of the world we live in at this point and -- we can spend a lot of time trying to prevent incidents from occurring but they still occur. what we try to do is recover, respond and limit damages best we can. >> so going off of what you just talked about with regard to having security procedures in place and how incredibly koinsal that you had this meeting last week and natural disasters as well, are these conversations that small towns like this one are in on? are they up to date on procedures in response to emergencies like this? >> i can't speak to other jurisdictions but i do know that in our area and the san antonio area in the outlying counties we are very well coordinated for regional events whether it's a hurricane response, a tornado

response or response to active shooter or, you know, mass shootings like this. our regional cooperation is at a very high level. i can't speak to the specifics of any ongoing investigation or the specifics of local jurisdictions, but at least regionally we have great coordination among our first responders teams. >> it's often the local police that they depend on for investigations like this one, more so than anything else even though they bring in the big guns like the fbi to help coordinate the investigation, it's the local police that they are depending on to really drive this thing home figuring out the motivation to all of this and of course the response as we were just talking about. what type of local police force do they have in sutherland springs? >> i can't speak to that either. i do know that they have active first response from the county

level and again because we're coordinated at the regional level and we have i would say one of the best trained and equipped police departments in the country here in san antonio we stand ready to assist in pretty much any area, any issue that our local jurisdiction but again, you have this being an atf, fbi and multiple local department jurisdiction issue at this point, so i would say that we have force deployed and available to whatever the investigation calls for. >> have you spoken to the leaders of sutherland springs, texas? any people in a leadership position there and gotten engaged as to how they're doing and feeling and what they're dealing with right now? >> i have not yet but i know that our first responders again are active on the scene. we're waiting for all clear before we really reach out and offer the kind of love and care that they're going to need for a long time. at this point, this is an active

crime scene. we got to let the investigators do their work before we come in with that kind of neighborly assistance. >> and what's your plan with leading san antonio forward as well with this town only being 40 miles or so east of your city? you've got a lot of people in your city that are likely effected by this that may be know someone that live in this town? it's a lot to deal with. >> it is and, you know, again our focus will be on preparedness to make sure we have everything that we need to respond to an incident here in our local jurisdiction if it should occur and again help our neighbors when they're in need. as far as helping people cope and getting us to where we need to go so that life can go on we're asking people to hug their neighbors and their loved ones,

you know. really attend to the world we live in and the varying needs in it. it's tragic that this happened at church. >> yeah. >> it would be tragic anywhere but we do need to recognize that these folks are in need and it's going to take some time for us to fully recover. >> mayor, our thoughts and prayer are with that community as well. you have a lot of people hurting in your city as well. 25 lives lost today from what we understand along with children as well. you can't even imagine living in that small town of sutherland springs, texas. completely different town now just a few hours after a shooting taking place there. mayor ron nirenberg. i very much appreciate you joining me. we're following a breaking news situation, a developing story out of sutherland springs, texas. a shooting at a church there. you're watching msnbc. o you.

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welcome back. we're following a developing story out of sutherland springs, texas. if you are just joining us, i want to bring everybody up to date as to what we know so far about the mass shooting in that area 40 miles east of san antonio. here's what we know so far. the wilson county sheriff reporting approximately 25 people are currently dead, at least ten wounded and are being treated in area hospitals. the alleged gunman killed by police after a chase there. witnesses report seeing the man enter the church at 11:30 open time and opening fire. federal investigators are currently on the scene. we're also awaiting a press conference from that area as well. we want to learn all -- we want to learn the answers to all the questions you're asking at home. which is why the shooter walked into a church and killed 25 people and children among some of those victims. jim kavanagh and former fbi

profiler clint. i know it's been a tough sunday so far but we still don't have a lot of answers. jim, i'm going to start with you. what are investigators looking at right now? >> right now it's all about the killer who is he and why he did this? is there anything else that he may have planned that they need to put a stop to. we've seen killers like this, the examples are colorado where he boopy trapped his apartment with bombs and explosive devices so when a neighbor -- he wanted to entrap a neighbor with loud music. law enforcement officers were able to diffuse those bombs. the local bomb squad, they all did a great job on that. we find that a lot of times over the years with shooters and these wild men that they have guns, they have explosives, so they got to be prepared for that. looks like they've swept his