morning joe starts right now. >> were guns the factor in our kids? >> what you're asking about is a assault weapons ban. >> yes, sir. >> so let me behonest with that one. if i believe that law would have prevented this from happening i would support it but i want to explain to you why it would not. >> senator rubio, my daughter running down the hallway at marjory douglas was shot in the back with an assault weapon. the weapon of choice. >> yes, sir. >> okay? it is too easy to get. it is a weapon of war. the fact that you can stand with everybody in this building and say that, i'm sorry. >> sir, i do believe what you're saying is true. >> the man you just heard from is fred and his daughter jaimee was murdered last week along with 13 other students and three

educators. last night that grieving fathser demanded action echoing feelings across the country from halls of state capitols to inside the white house to the very high schools where the violence is so often perpetrated. we are going to speak with fred this morning, but first, thought i'd read from the closing lines of his eulogy that he was forced to deliver for his 14-year-old girl. he referenced the president's weekend tweet where he linked the florida shooting to the russia investigation and fred writes, in part this, and said this at her funeral. i need to say one more thing. i heard about presidential tweets this morning linking my baby's death to the russia probe. the fbi made a tragic mistake and it needs to be dealt with, but i have not even heard from you. you are not going through what my wife and i are going through and you do not have my permission to pull my daughter's death into the russia probe. what happened here in parkland

has nothing to do with it and it needs to be dealt with in a nonpolitical way and one that accurately deals with the issue of gun violence so that we can send our children to school. you do have my permission if you would like to join me in this fight for public safety and all that it includes such as mental health which we aagree on and the weapon of choice which happens to be guns. >> that was the end of his eulogy. with us on set here in washington, we have msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee michael stee steele, contributor rick tyler and casey hunt. >> yesterday was a remarkable day. i think we guaregardless of wha side you're on, the new york post again rupert murdock's new

york post, a plea from the students to the president of the united states, but also it seems a plea from the new york post. an iconic cover, it reminds me of a cover that we saw new york city drop dead. here's the daily news and we're holding these new york papers up. these are the newspapers that donald trump reads in the morning along with the new york times and he spoke about background checks. he spoke about mental illness. he spoke about arming teachers but he never mentioned a word about the 300 million guns flooding our streets, wonder why and there is if you're driving in the car there's a picture of the president with tape over his mouth with nra logo over his mouth. i -- i do want to say a couple of things just off the top very quickly and then let's get to

the sound. first of all, and i -- i haven't said this very often since the president was sworn in, but thank you, mr. president for -- for what you did yesterday, and letting these people speak. most that hold events like that have it staged. i thought the ideas that many had were good. i -- arming teachers is a bad idea, even police officers with the best training panic. we see that in one tragic dash cam video after another. we know that there are more states with guns, there are more gun deaths. if there are more guns in schools there will be more gun deaths. people without adequate training will make terrible mistakes. there will be gun accidents. so despite that, i thought it

was remarkable. and what happened last night on cnn, you know, i'm so torn by that. it's -- there -- i -- i don't -- i don't think booing and -- and chanting and interrupting and shouting down people who are trying to speak is a way to encourage dialog and yet we had a grieving community there. many people who lost their children, if i lost my children and just like newtown profoundly affected me because i not only live close to newtown, but have children that were around that age. well, i have children around the age of those who died here. so you can't judge the parents, you can't judge the people in the audience. you know, you heard marco rubio speaking. i'm so bothered that he continued to give the same old

pat answers, but marco rubio showed up. >> he did show up. >> he stood in the fire. he stood face to face. again, i hated his answers, but he stood face to face with a father who lost his 14-year-old daughter. he stood face to face with students who lost their friends. he had the courage to be there which is so much more than you can say for rick scott. so it's really hard to process. i do know this though. if we're going to have a real conversation about this, then we've -- we've got to figure out how to do it without shouting at each other. the nra, if they want to be positive, they have to figure out a way to do it without running ads and videos that incite violence against people that actually support the 2nd amendment but may not line up with them 100% of the time.

but again, the president allowed a dialog. people were talking about notes that he was holding. guess what? i don't care what notes he was holding. what i care about is that there was a conversation. >> an attempt to show empathy. an attempt to hear and we have to applaud that. i think what happened with marco rubio was not -- not outside what is needed at this point. he needs to hear from the people of florida. they disagree with limb. at some point, maybe marco rubio will agree this is a 97% issue. >> background checks are. they're a 97% issue. it does get -- and again, i've been very clear about where i feel about, you know, the proliferation of ar-15s and background checks and bump stocks, but this is a very complicated issue. >> i know. >> it is. we have too many guns on the street. i understand that. we also have to understand

though that how many -- how many warnings did local police miss here? >> 39. >> how many times were local police called to this kid's house? again, there's enough blame to go around for all of us. we need to sit and talk and figure this out and again, something let's go to the tape but something again that i don't usually say that i have not said since january 20th, 2017, yesterday it was the white house who got it right by listening. and allowing an open and free and fair dialog. >> so it was an emotional day at the white house yesterday where president trump, vice president pence and education secretary hosted survivors of school shootings and their family

members for a listening session in search of solutions to gun violence. here is systome of what was sai. >> i'm only 15 years old. i'm a sophomore. 19 years ago the first school shooting columbine high school happened and i was born into a world where i never got to experience safety and peace. there needs to be significant change in this country because this has to never happen again. and people should be able to be -- to feel that when they go to school they can be safe. >> i'm very angry that this happened. because it keeps happening. 9/11 happened once and they fixed everything. how many schools, how many children have to get shot? it stops here with this administration and me. all the school shootings, it doesn't make sense. fix it. should have been one school shooting and we should have

fixed it. and i'm pissed because my daughter i'm not going to see again. she's not here. she's not here. she's at -- in north lauderdale at whatever it is, king david cemetery. that's where i go to see my kid now. school safety. it's not about gun laws right now. that's another fight, another battle. let's fix the schools and then you guys can battle it out whatever you want, but we need our children safe. >> my name is sam. i'm a student from marjory douglas. i was on the second floor in that building, texting my mom, texting my dad, texting three of my brothers that i was never going to see them again. and then it occurred to me that

my 14-year-old brother was directly above me in that classroom where scott beagle was murdered. scott beagle got my brother in the class. he was the last kid to get back into that class. i turned 18 the day after, woke up to the news that my best friend was gone, and i don't understand why i could still go in a store and buy a weapon of war, an ar. how do we need -- not stop this? after sandy hook. i'm sitting with a mother that lost her son. it's still happening. >> i had two sons who were at sandy hook school and my eldest who was eight at the time survived and my 6-year-old son dillon did not. and i have been working

tirelessly on this issue for over five years now. i absolutely agree since sandy hook there's been an increase in school safety and security. we've invested a lot in the bricks and mortar of our schools. we've invested a lot in the security of our schools. i thisnk we also need to focus n prevention. how can we identify and help get help for people who are at risk before they pick up any weapon. right now you could mandate these sorts of programs. you could ensure that schools, stuntss and educators are trained how to recognize these signs and to know what to do when they see them and then to ensure that those tips are followed through. you have the ability to make a difference and save lives today. please don't waste this. >> michael, i was just asking you guys before, does this feel different? what do you think?

>> it does for me. this is a space that we've not been in before. when you go back to these other tragedies, there was outrage, there was frustration, but there was no sense of movement. there was no sense of the pieces kind of coming together finally to make the case to elected officials that this has to stop. the president to his great credit gave that voice yesterday in a way we have not seen before. now, whether or not he intended to let that jeanie out of the bottle it's out. it's going to be harder for the nra, harder for a lot of people who stood in that particular doorway, all right, harking back to those civil rights moments where you had people standing in the doorway progressing forward on a very important civil agenda. it's going to be hard for them to look a mother, toe look a student, to look a family in the eye and go, this policy must

stand because this is the best policy. in the eyes of those parents and those friends and those kids out there, that policy is killing their kids, their friends and their neighbors. >> and for me, i had said rick, a couple of days ago that this is like another divisive social issue. abortion where 3d imagery and the ability to get -- get children into the n icu earlier and earlier has changed how many americans feel about abortion. let's say if you're debating the ban after 20 weeks, because they've seen their children with 3d imagery. they've seen their profiles like me of their children in the womb and still see that profile on their 9-year-old children, 10-year-old children and so that -- that's nothing a politician on the left or right said. that's something that families

saw. here, my god, everybody that has a child in america that we talk to, our children are profoundly impacted by this. they're scared. they are frightened. they believe that they can't go to school without being gunned down, and again, i will say what i said after newtown. the pace of these killings are picking up. three of the most tragic mass shootings in american history have happened over the last six months. so what does this all mean, what you saw yesterday? what do you think it means? >> well, let me start by saying, acknowledge that this is just unspeakably sad and i do give the president and marco rubio a lot of credit, the most difficult thing is to look

someone in the eye who has lost their child. this morning my daughter will get up and she will go teach school in the public schools here in northern virginia. now, in northern virginia, we're more blessed i guess because we have resource officers in the school -- in all our schools, nearly all our schools that i know of and when you go to that front door, that front door doesn't open. that door is locked. it will not be able to get into that school. there's no soft targets. the idea that was brought up is we really have to look at hardening targets and protecting the kids. he said -- he said it's not oogun debate. we've got to protect the kids. i do think it's both but the idea of open campuses for high schools may be a thing of the past. you've got to close that down. you've got to protect the kids. here's the -- i don't want to say the cynical side or the difficult side as you mentioned, joe, that there's 300 million guns in the united states. there's five to 10 million

ar-15s. i agree with michael. i think this is different but i don't know that the result will be exactly the same. i do think we need something. so i think when you have someone who the police went to their residence 39 times, on a 911 calls and that somehow doesn't get into the background check, that's got to change. the idea that someone is mentally ill and can acquire a firearm, that's got to change. >> right. >> but the ar-15 has been around since before the 1960s. it's been around, so and then you were there in 1994 during this whole weapons ban. >> right. >> so right after that, we had assault weapons ban and the ar-15 and other weapons like it were illegal. not a single one was confiscated or taken in. everybody who owned one kept it. so what i'm trying to say --

>> but the problem is, if somebody like this shooter here decides he's going to go and kill a lot of students because they're -- in many cases copy cat deaths, they go into the store, they purchase them there. i mean, you can -- there's always and i'm not saying this is what you're suggesting but there's always this black and white issue. >> right. >> if we want to limit the selling of that, if we want to raise the age, if we want to make it tougher or if we want to stop sales now, then suddenly people will come on the nra and they will say they want to come and confiscate your guns. i've never said that once and yet the nra is running ads against me saying quote, i want to destroy people's lives. you know, if -- i would probably have about an 80%, 85% rating still on the nra score card because i don't even like carry laws in connecticut and new york. i feel like i should be able to carry what i want to carry.

that's what i personally believe. right? but they will say because i've been fighting for background checks and limiting the purchase of ar-15s and bump stocks that i want to quote, destroy -- and they'll say to gun owners. joe wants to destroy your life. we've got other nra clips here where they are openly inciting violence against members of the media and if somebody dies, then the nra will be held liable for that. you look at those clips and you get that on the far right and then on the far left you have people suggesting they want to confiscate guns. that's not where 90% of americans are. they're just saying let's stop the madness now. let's make it harder. maybe -- nobody's saying kick down doors and confiscating guns but maybe make it impossible for people like this to just go into a store and purchase an ar-15. >> i totally agree with that.

>> you know what, casey, the nra's business model is make it as easy as possible for people to purchase weapons. take away all boundaries. it always has been. it's especially that way now because an ar-15 makes gun makers the most money. and there's nothing that the nra is concerned about more than people who make guns. and people on wall street who invest. the financers who invest. it's not about gun owners. it's not about us. it's about the bottom line. >> and it's also about their own fund raising and quite frankly, the bar has been moved farther and farther to the right by organizations like gun owners of america that are now, you know, competing with the nra on the other side. two things have stuck out to me here. first of all, the courage on the part of these teenagers and high school kids has just been absolutely striking and fantastic. i'm thinking back to when i was

that age, would i have had the where with all to go out and do what these kids are doing and this i think is something that has clearly affected the president of the united states and is affecting all of us. the second thing is and here i think is the question, marco rubio when he stood on that stage came out and said he would support a number of things that i think would be good for the nra. an age limit for rifles. po enthe usually changing the magazine size. not arming teachers. he said all these things. these are things the nra is going to fight on capitol hill and my question is what we're going through now, what these kids are saying, is that going to drive rubio to follow through on that or is this just going to be like every other time when we see this, when it all falls apart and are those kids going to be paying attention? my guess is they are going to be paying attention. >> so i don't know how you go through a night like last night and don't find yourself profoundly changed on this issue and willing to bend whether it costs you or not politically. >> how do you not?

>> and you didn't just see courage and we're going to show you after the break. you saw rage. you saw rage on the part of the parents and part of these kids who go to school wondering if they're going to get blown -- gunned down, kids across the country and kids who have had it happen to them. this is rage at this point. so coming up from the white house to the state house in tallahassee, to schools across the country, you're going to here from kids who are the future on this issue on every level. we'll be right back. this year, we're taking it up a notch. so in this commercial we see two travelers at a comfort inn with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com". who glows? just say, badda book. badda boom. nobody glows. he gets it. always the lowest price, guaranteed. book now at choicehotels.com

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we all want to know you know, the new, new thing.

with xfinity's retail stores, you can now see the latest. want to test drive the latest devices? be our guest. want to save on mobile? just ask. want to demo the latest innovations and technology? do it here. come see how we're making things simple, easy, and awesome. plus come in today and ask about xfinity mobile, a new kind of network designed to save you money. visit your local xfinity store today. while the listening session was going on inside the white house, hundreds of students from the washington, d.c. area walked out of school yesterday afternoon to call for gun reform. they started at the u.s. capitol and marched to the white house carrying signs and chanting and at the florida state capital, thousands rallied in support of new gun control measures with students leading the charge. >> i'm not trying to take away

your 2nd amendment rights nor am i trying to eliminate all guns but we cannot protect our guns before we protect our children. >> dear congress, how many of the thoughts and prayers i have received do i need to check in for some damn action. >> after first graders were gunned down at sandy hook, what did you do? >> nothing! >> not a damn thing. you ran back to your gun free spaces in washington, d.c. and hid under your desks until cnn stopped talking about it. after 49 people including my two brothers were murdered at pulse, what did you do? >> nothing! >> not a damn thing. should you continue to choose your wallets over our lives, i pray you enjoy retirement.

because we will vote you out. >> we've spoken to only a few legislators and try as they might, the most we've gotten out of them we'll keep you in our thoughts. you are so strong, you are so powerful. we've heard enough of that. we've heard enough of we are so strong, we are so powerful because that is not why we are here today. we are not here to be patted on the back. we're not here to be told we're doing so much because we know we're doing it for a reason. we're doing it so that our lawmakers will make a change, so that they will take us seriously so they will not dismiss us any longer, so they won't reschedule, so they won't push us into another room as they dance around our questions because we came here prepared and we're going to come to every single meeting with every single legislator prepared. we know what we want. we want gun reform. we want common sense gun laws. stronger mental health checks and background checks. we want a better age limit.

>> one trip total h tallahassee not going to be enough but i don't know how many times i'm going to have to come up here to speak to have somebody listen to me. i've walked into office after office after office and i've spoken to two representatives two of which have already agreed with me. i want to see those people who shot down that bill who did not let it get past committee. i want to see those people. i'm not here for a fight. i'm not here to argue with you. i just want to speak. i just want to see your face and know why. >> i mean, it's remarkable and you look at the young woman with glasses that spoke, and you know, not to be -- >> that speech should be chilling. she'll be voting next year. the young man at the end he's

going to be voting. they're all voting. >> and again, none of these students, many of whom had friends die, none are talking about kicking down doors. none are talking about confiscating weapons. what did you hear? common sense gun reform. make it harder for people to buy weapons of war. stronger background checks. more on mental health. casey, you were talking yesterday to political pro in virginia who had interesting insights about the nra. >> so i think one question especially in a lot of these swing states has been, you know, the nra can typically sway at least some republicans potentially swing voters who feel perhaps they live in more rural areas of a state like virginia which is a mix of suburban and rural voters but i don't think we've seen a lot of examples in se where a general election a candidate in a swing

state runs against the nra, goes out and says this organization is bad, that my opponent is bought and paid for by that organization and you may see that because of what we're seeing here start to shift in this midterm election and i think that's one way to try and figure out if this actually is going to be different this time. if candidates start acting differently that way. >> and michael steele, particularly, if you look at the seats that are going to determine whether the next speaker of the house is a democrat or a republican, you look to those 25 republican seats that hillary clinton won. if -- if the pennsylvania district stays in place, redistricting stays in place, this -- this suddenly becomes a huge issue. >> yeah. >> it becomes a huge issue also with younger voters, with educated republican voters, educated independents. i mean, the poll numbers are

staggering and we have a new poll out that shows donald trump's approval rating among younger voters, has dropped even more over the past couple of weeks and i think most everybody assumes it's because of the shooting. >> i think that there's a direct correlation here. >> he's down to 22%, minus five. again, his numbers keep dropping and that's just over the past couple of weeks since the shooting. >> while the president may not be concerned about this at this moment, the rest of the party should be. because of those 25 seats, because of other seats, even in some republican districts where this issue to casey's point could cut a little bit differently. you've watched this thing -- this movement, i'll call it that, begin to gel around the voices of 15, 16 and 17-year-olds that are pushing back against this establishment and that translates ultimately

at the ballot box because their parents, their neighbors, their friends get animated with them, supporting their children, are supporting what they are doing. and so you can't sit back and think that this is a one off folks. you can't think that by september, october, this is water under the bridge. that's why as we were saying in the first segment this is so different for me. it feels different because it's coming from a space we haven't seen before. we watched the emotion around this table just watching the clip, just a small portion of what happened yesterday. imagine that now translated out and rippling out across the country. >> you take several of the seats, casey, up for grabs are in south florida. >> yeah. >> right around where this happened. marco rubio is not up for a couple of years but there certainly are some republicans that are -- that are up in an open district that is -- that is up down there and this is -- you know, a gun -- gun voters are

single issue voters. can be single issued voters but this fits into the sort of narrative that is devastating for parties in power. bill clinton, 1994. we all ran against the same thing. bill clinton is out of touch. he's taken this country too far left. george w. bush in 2006, democrats went to town saying george w. bush is out of touch. here, this gun issue is added to race issues, is added to concerns about this white house and republicans. and you just put this on top of that, it's pretty devastating. >> i think that analysis is spot on. the places where democrats need to win, this issue is going to -- is going to -- it's going to add to everything that they

are already concerned about and i think, you know, democrats that i have talked to who are in vulnerable areas or who are trying to challenge republicans believe this is an issue that's going to help them take seats away but one of the things i think is important to remember here too and michael, you talked about the parents of these kids. i think that's absolutely true. think about the kids themselves. first of all, h how likely is i we're going to see another school shooting between now and the midterm elections? you don't want to -- >> the data proves that we probably will see. >> it's likely to potentially happen again and the other thing, in this media environment and rick mentioned offcamera that these kids know how to talk on camera because they're always talking to the phones. those phones mean the parents can't shield the kids. i was in high school when columbine hand. i read about it but it was not in my pocket, on my screen every second of the day reminding me that people my age had been gunned down in their classrooms. >> which is a great point

because we always turn off the tvs in our house when things like this happen. >> can't turn it off. >> and all i'm doing is kidding myself because my kids will then come up, you know at dinner and they will ask me, okay, dad, tell me about what -- what happened today. what -- explain this to me. and i think again, like kasie said, what is -- what it should not be difficult for republicans to calculate is, what they talked about after newtown seven years ago. seven and a half years oeg or five years? 12. it was 2012. so five, five and a half years ago, said at the time, the pace is quickening. this is becoming a public epidemic. if you look at the overall statistics, michael bloomberg will tell you that gun deaths are down, and assault styled

weapons play a very small role in the overall number of gun deaths in america. that said, it is a weapon of choice for mass shooters. and so republicans have to know that this epidemic is spreading, and there is tragically going to be more in the future if nothing is done about it. >> so let me just touch on something. so we've had michael mentioned one civil rights movement. we have cultural shifts that happen in america. some are big and some are small. cigarettes was a cultural shift and there was a huge campaign about cigarettes and how dangerous they were and smoking went down. marijuana laws is another. seat belt laws, remember we used to never wear a seat belt. when i grew up you didn't wear a seat belt. now when i don't wear a seat belt my daughter says daddy, put your seat belt on. gay marriage, but what remains is this is a -- this is a

cultural issue. one is young people historically don't vote. that's sometimes why they don't get -- their issues don't get listened to. young people would have to vote en masse. gun control as an issue has always been a loser. remember in 1994 the democrats in part i think got wiped out because of the assault weapons ban, but also remember there are millions of good people like me and like you who own guns responsibly and when we can compromise on some issues for safety. >> right. >> but some of the messaging that's coming out is people who own guns are bad and i think there are a lot of people and i'm not one of them, but when you -- when people say common sense gun laws they don't hear common sense gun laws, they hear gun control, take my guns. >> but in part they don't hear common sense gun laws, because the nra is putting out advertisements saying people that are with nra, 80% of the time, like myself. >> that's a political reality.

>> want to come and quote, destroy them. think about that. they say somebody that agrees with them on the right to keep and bear arms with heller, that the 2nd amendment means what the 2nd amendment means. that i believe americans should be able to carry. i just do. i also believe -- and i know this will shock a lot of people that watch this show. i think putziting up a sign tha says gun free zones is seen by many as saying kill more people here. all right? now, i know a lot of people that watch that show love the idea of gun free zones. and if it makes you feel better to put up a sign that says gun free zone, you can do it, but i don't feel safer about being in an area with a sign like that or sending my children to schools that have signs that say, gun free zones. so there you go. i've just separated myself from 90% of my audience.

but to the nra. >> bring them back. >> no, no, but to the nra, they take somebody with me who is seen as a ne ander that will among liberals on gun issues, they are sending the message and i'm not making this about me. i'm making this about anybody that wants to have a real debate. they're saying that i want to quote, destroy them. that i am a clear and present danger. they're saying other people like these children who were saying common sense gun laws and talking about background checks and talking about mental health, they're saying what you just said, that they're trying to come and take your guns, that they want to come -- no, i don't want to confiscate anybody's guns. i just want to say stop. let's figure this out and stop the proliferation of these weapons that are killing our children in schools. and ist just one other thing too. a guy that i really respect and

i'm not going to say his name here because i respect him so much. he lectured the news media for getting facts about gun laws wrong. he then went out and wrote a column that basically said, if you read it, with the point of view that you're talking about, that it's clear cut that the united states supreme court has made purchasing ar-15s a god given constitutional right. that's just not the law. it's not close to the law. you can't find a law professor in america that has read decisions from 2008 forward, that looked at the denial of the sert from the two california cases this week, that looked at other denials that would say anybody on the supreme court has

that view other than justice thomas. i think most likely he would be outvoted 8-1, 7-3 -- or 7-2, 6-3. but there's so much misinformation going out there that you can't even talk about being sensible. >> no. >> without people saying they're coming to take your guns, they want to kick -- it's just like the nra in 1994 talked about jack -- what was it? >> jack thugs that were going to take away your right to free speech, your right to religion, your right to that. >> that's because george h.w. bush chose to unenroll from the nra. >> this is the last thing i'm going to say. i have grown up in georgia, meridian, mississippi, knot west florida better known as the red neck riviera, lower alabama,

around my friends in southern baptist churches in all of those states and they all say the same thing. my daddy's taken me out hunting since i was young. who needs an ar-15? i know there are people that collect. i know people believe the federal government is coming and they want to be able to kill as many police officers and soldiers as they can if the government is quote, tyrannical, but the rank and file of the nra does not think that way. the hunters that i've grown up with in southern baptist churches across the deep south for 45 years before i moved up here, they don't think that way. >> well, and this conversation and these arguments go on while the killings continue and even escalate. at some point we have to come to something on this. still ahead, we're going to drill further down on some of the worst rhetoric fuelling the

most polarized positions on this gun issue that joe was talking about. we're back in just a moment.

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okay. so we're talking nonstop, i know that's a shock.

>> no, just you. no, just kidding. it was all of us. >> i still think -- i think this is a moment. >> i do too. >> i think it's the new york post's moment and i think again, the president opening up the mike in a way that presidents don't usually do. >> it was -- it was well done. it was important. >> it was -- it was well done, it was important. and it was great that he was listening and again, if somebody wants to hand him cards that say empathy, that's fine with me because americans are listening. let's bring in former nato commander. retired four star admiral. he's chief of the national diplomacy analyst for nbc and we want to get to what you heard and saw in mu nich.

everybody's talking about parkland. any thoughts? >> i'm a native floridaian. i understand the culture down there. i think on the scale of what we could have seen coming out of the white house i was glad as you were to see the president gather these folks up and have a kind of national moment. it does feel different to me this time. i sure the hell hope so. we can't go on like this. >> so let's move from ar-15 to nuclear weapons. i remember barry gold water scaring the heck out of the worm world. i was one year old, but i remember reading about barry scaring the hell out of the world talking about limited nuclear strikes on slevietnam. we're there again in 2018 with people preaching about limited nuclear strikes. >> yeah. >> shouldn't we be just as scared today as so many were in '64? >> i think so. and you know, joe, i just came

from the munich security conference. and a panel there with a bunch of ministers of defense and listened to conversations about how we can dial down nuclear weapons and we're kind of sleep walking into this. 100 years ago we schllept walke into the first world war. i feel like we're acclimatizing ourselves to the use of nuclear weapons. it's a huge mistake. >> tell us where we are in 2018. you went over to munich. the president made people nervous with tweets, angela merkel said we can no longer depend on the united states but there's also a realization that there's a lot of bluster, there's a lot of sound and fury but there are a lot of u.s. policies that have remained in place. >> i wrote a piece about this saying the new national security

strategy was shockingly normal. and i think it is. here's what's changed and worrisome -- it's the rise of great power politics. we're seeing china increasingly assertive in the south china sea, a russia that intrudes in our elections and is unafraid to pull levers of power around the democratic world. that's very worrisome. again, back to 100 years ago we saw this mix of great powers and now we add this sense of nuclear weapons on top of it. >> i had a general tell me that -- a couple days ago, the end of history, it's actually -- it started again with great power politics. >> exactly. and the good news from a trump administration perspective is that they realize this, they're talking about it seriously. the bad news is we're not exerting leadership and that's what the munich security conference felt as a mariner. >> what are we exerting?

you mentioned the new national security policy. what is it? >> it is in a nutshell, mika, it is to step up our game in the face of china which is increasingly moving globally and to push back on russia. if we do those two things i think we have a better chance of controlling the tactical challenges we face. >> where is europe in all of this? and how do they feel about the american position in the world and whether we're capable of standing up to some of these threats? >> they're extremely worried and what you see happening in germany where angela merkel is struggling to put a coalition together is kind of a microcosm of this confused global sea. so in germany which is on sensebly the lesens -- almost ostensibly the leader of europe. and the united states is much

diminished globally. >> american leadership throughout the world seems sort of like the olympics. we're now in fourth place. we normally dominate the olympics. who are our competitors for global dominance? is china really a competitor? what do you see as the future with -- if american leadership recedes, what does the world look like? >> two thoughts. first is often people say to me admiral, you're right, we're in a war of ideas. not quite. we're in a marketplace of ideas. we have to compete and i think our fundamental values can compete in this world. second point, the competitor is china because of mass scale an alternative view of how to run a society increasing military capability and a belief that this is their moment. >> but is that moment, though, a military moment or is it an economic moment because it's the united states and the soviet union that always fought to

expant. the chinese -- everything i've heard, these communists are the most nakedly capitalistic people that have ever walked the face of the earth. i -- like over a billion people. they just sit there and obsess about making money. >> indeed and it's a combination. they're going to use some level of hard power. they're going to use soft power to try to win in this marketplace of ideas and kind of in the middle joe they'll use what i would call sharp power which is economic, tech, cyber. when you put that spectrum together, you couple it with a strategy, they will be a formidable competitor from the united states. >> admiral james stavridis, great to see you in person. ahead this morning, we'll hear more from the parents of the murdered students and their friends and we'll hear from the president himself. what he had to say about the gun issue yesterday and the potential for arming american educators.

plus, a look at the rhetoric fuelling the issue from the nra to the lawmakers and candidates whose job it is to represent the people who elect them. you're watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. time to bask... in low prices! tripadvisor compares prices from over 200 booking sites to find the right hotel for you at the lowest price. refreshing, isn't it?. tripadvisor.

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life. we will continue this conversation straight ahead with the father of jamie guttenberg, a 14-year-old girl murdered in her florida school last week. but the first the victims, advocates and elected officials on the front lines of this debate speaking out yesterday in an emotional day across the countr country. >> i'm very hangry that this happened because it keeps happening. 9/11 happened once and they fixed everything. how many schools, how many children have to get shot? it stops here with this administration and me, all these school shootings, it doesn't make sense. fix it. it should have been one school shooting and we should have fixed it. and i'm pissed because my daughter i'm not going to see again. she's not here, she's not here,

she's at -- in north lauderdale at whatever it is, king david cemetery, that's where i go to see my kid now. and it's school safety, it's not about gun laws right now, that's another fight, another battle. let's fix the schools and then you guys can battle it out whatever you want. but we need our children safe. >> my name is sam, i'm a student from marjory stoneman douglas. i was on the second floor in that building texting my mom, texting my dad, texting three of my brothers that i was never going to see them again. and then it occurred to me that my 14-year-old brother was directly above me in that classroom where scott beigel was murdered. scott beigel got my brother in

the class, they was last kid to get back into that class. i turned 18 the day after, i woke up to the news that my best friend was gone. and i don't understand why i can still go in a store and buy a weapon of war, an ar. how do we not stop this after columbine, after sandy hook. i'm sitting with a mother that lost her son. it's not right. >> this would only be obviously for people that are very adept at handling a gun and it would be -- it's called concealed carry where a teacher would have a concealed gun on them. they go for special training. you would no longer have a gun-free zone. gun-free zone to a maniac -- because they're all cowards -- a gun-free zone is let's go in and let's attack because bullets

aren't coming back at us. if you had a teacher with -- who was adept at firearms, they could very well end the attack very quickly. in addition to everything else, in addition to what we're going to do about background checks we're going to go very strong into age, age of purchase and we're also going to go very strong into the mental health aspect of what's going on because here was a case where it cried out, this person was sick. >> one trip to tallahasse i knew was not going to be enough but i don't know how many times i'm going to be having to come up here to just speak to have somebody to listen to me. i know i've been walking into office after office after office and i've maybe only spoken to three representatives, two of which already agreed with me. i want to see those people who have spoken out against this. i want to see those people who shot down that bill, who did not let it get past committee, i want to see those people.

i'm not here for a fight. i'm not here to argue with you. i just want to speak. i just want to see your face and know why. >> we've spoken to only a few legislators and try as they might the most we've gotten out of them is "we'll keep you in our thoughts, you are so strong, you are so powerful." we have heard enough of that. we are not here for that. we are not here to be padded on the back. with we're not here to be told that we're great that we're doing so much because we know what we're doing, we're doing it for a reason. we're doing it for our lawmakers will make a change, so that they will take us seriously, so they will not dismiss us any longer, so they won't reschedule, they won't push us into another room as they dance around our questions because we came here prepared and we are going to come to every single meeting with every single legislator prepared. we know what we want. we want gun reform, we want common sense gun laws, we want stronger mental health checks and back checks to work in

conjunction, we want a better age limit, we want privatized selling to be completely reformed so you can't walk into a building with $130 and walk out with an ar-15. >> and there you go. with us on set we have msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele. political commentator for abc news and npr, cokie roberts. editor-in-chief of the "atlantic" magazine, jeffrey goldberg. that was as powerful and profound as it gets and you know what? the kids and the parents and the teachers and everybody who is suffering through this epidemic, as you call it, they are really tired of getting patted on the head. you heard that. >> in the dialogue yesterday -- and i will say it, and i do think it's the first time i've said this since january 20, 2017, but yesterday the president got it right. he handed the microphone over to these people, he let them talk. of course, as i said before, i disagree with the idea of arming

teachers. you look at dash cam videos of police officers with training, tragedies happen when they panic. teachers have enough to worry about without putting that responsibility in their hands. and, again, it is a fact -- i think i listed why i would have an 80% to 85% probably score from the nra -- that being said, it's a fact that in states where you have more guns you have more gun deaths. in schools where you have more guns, you will have more gun deaths. we will be looking back on this time as a time where there were fewer gun deaths and if we start arming teachers who were there to teach math, there to teach science, there to teach english, it doesn't make sense. >> it's hard enough to be a teacher. >> and the teachers have been so heroic. >> they've been incredible. >> just unbelievable the way they've protected their children and taken the bullets,

literally, themselves, is just -- is something so admirable. i think we're at a moment where there's much admirable going on. these kids who just were wonderful, they really are. and i just hope that the politicians don't discourage them because you get -- that cute redheaded boy who said "the only people that talked to me are people who already agree with me." they don't want to be dismissed and they don't want to hear gobbledygook about i co-sponsored a bill on this or i was with you on section 4013. they don't want to hear that. they want it fixed. >> so jeffrey, what we're all trying to figure out -- because yesterday was a remarkable day. regardless of what your political ideology was, what the president did -- >> it was his job. >> but he did. >> it you know what, cokie roberts? if presidents all did their jobs

then we would haven't gone into iraq, there wouldn't have been so many people dying in syria and this president wouldn't be doing -- >> i'm sorry, joe. >> let's give credit where credit is due. >> joe, this is the borrow a phrase, the soft bigotry of low expectations here. you praised the president for sitting in a room and listening to people. that's pretty basic responsibility of a president to sit in a room and listen to citizens. i'm not knocking what happened but i would say that the headline out of that was his proposal to arm teachers. that was the policy headline and i have to say that the idea of arming teachers is a sign of civilizational failure. you have to understand how people in other countries look at this. >> yeah. >> people think that we are insane to think that the only solution to our problem is to give teachers guns. >> well he didn't say that was the only solution. >> i can't believe i'm about to say this but i disagree with you and i think that the low expectations comment is actually totally out of line right now

because this president -- who i am against on so many levels and find to be profoundly insulting to this country -- did something very right yesterday. he put the faces and the names and the people who lost loved ones, babies, sisters, brothers, friends, to gun violence in front of national cameras inside the white house on live television and listened to them beg -- beg -- for change. >> mika, that's what presidents are supposed to do. >> but that's not what politicians do, though. >> well, they should. >> politicians don't usually hand over a microphone when they know that their side is going to get lambasted? >> and do you know what this might do? it might infringe upon the nra's power because that was powerful to have this president listening to those people for hours. i was riveted and i think most of america was. >> it was obviously riveting.

i don't have as much hope as you do that this is going to change. >> i don't have hope but i'm not giving up. >> i think mika and i are getting uncomfortable defending the president. >> please don't make me do this. >> so let me ask the next question. >> i'm having fun watching you. >> it might not change the policy and i think that's probably right, but it can change the politics. not just this but the me too and all of that, the energy of the electorate is around issues are not helpful to the republican party. >> i'm more hopeful on me too than this. i think we're not facing the awesome power of the single-issue voter. >> yes. >> and you know this better than anyone. this is an important factor here and after all the emotion and after this riveting television is over you still have millions and millions of people who vote on one issue. >> so let's talk quickly about

policy instead of emotions. you had the president yesterday talking about enhanced background checks, something that i have been pounding the desk about since newtown. >> and marco rubio, too, a little bit. >> that the republicans have been ignoring, that the nra has been teaching everybody that follows them is a violation of the second amendment. you have cornyn working with chris murphy on that issue bump stocks which seem so obvious to everybody but got brushed aside after las vegas. we're going to move forward with something there and actually you have people inside the white house that are asking what happens if we go after ar-15s? how do we do it? how do we limit it? and perhaps the president bumbled into that yesterday. i don't think he did. when you hand the microphone over to people that have just been victims of this sort of

violence. >> it's not like you can take it back. >> hold on, this is an important point. the president may have known exactly what he was doing having these people run resistance for him for gun reform policies and maybe i'll be wrong. >> i'll crede one point. >> it's possible yesterday he was there but we don't know where he will be tomorrow. >> i hear you. >> since he doesn't have fixed ideological positions he's moved by the emotion of the moment and maybe he'll drag some republicans because he's still extraordinarily popular with the base but it's about consistency also. when push comes to shove, is he going to take those fights to the hill? >> look what happened on immigration. >> but that's the key point that jeff put his finger on because the reality is the president sat there and not only did he make news about what he wants to do on a ban and all of that, he made news on the age issue where he's talking about raising the age in order to get weapons.

literally 45 minutes after he said that the nra was out with a statement making it very clear this is a line that will not be crossed. this is a bridge too far. the test for this president in that emotional moment is do you use the power of that office backed up by the people in that room with you to say you know what? screw your line we're crossing it. >> and the example on that is mothers against drunk driving. >> exactly. >> people who had no money. they were not people who could buy a congressman, they were people who had a terrible story to tell and they got in very short time -- i think you were still in congress, joe -- they got the age limit on drinking raised in 50 states or else you didn't get federal funds for your highways. you can do similar things -- >> but there was no pro-drunk driving lobby to fight. >> there was a pro-liquor fight. >> a couple things. first of all i've got to say

that we've talked about this before and i want to be very clear, donald trump has a pattern. he is -- as we've always said, he is a -- >> the dreamers. >> a democrat from queens. culturally he is. if you grow up in queens in manhattan culturally you're more aligned with those areas. >> a conservative in queens is a lib feder liberal in many other places. >> look at the "new york post." and i'll guarantee a lot of "new york post" readers agree with murdoch's paper which is enough. we don't understand what those people in northwest florida see in ar-15s or alabama or whatever. but donald trump pushes on dreamers, his base gets angry, he pulls back because he's scared of the base. that may happen here, too. >> and that means republicans in congress can't count on him to support them and that's a real problem. >> but here's the political problem for republican this is

year. there is nothing the nra can do to stop the tidal wave that is coming in november. we saw it in alabama. we saw it in northern virginia. we saw it -- virginia has elected two democrats who were vehemently opposed as governors, the last two governors by the nra and you look at the 25 districts that hillary clinton won that republicans now hold those seats? this is just another brick in the wall to quote pink floyd. this is another brick in the wall. >> well, that's what i was saying about politics as opposed to policy but the democrats can blow it. >> well, that's what they do. that's their job. >> the house job. >> that's their house specialty. the one thing republicans have going for them is what republicans always have going for them. democrats always figure out a way to lose things. here was senator marco rubio

last fight. it was fascinating. >> he knew it was going to be a tough room and he was confronted by student survivors from stoneman douglas during a town hall meeting in florida. take a look. >> after me and several others have been going out of their way going to the state capital, speaking out, we'd like to know why do we have to be the ones to do this? bly do we have to speak out to the capital? why do we have to march on washington just to save innocent lives? [ cheers and applause ] >> this isn't about red and blue. we can't boo people because they're democrats and boo people because they're republicans. [ applause ] anyone who's willing to show change, no matter where they're from, anyone who's willing to start to make a different is somebody we need on our side here and this is about people who are for making a difference to save us and people who are against it and prefer money so senator rubio, can you tell me right now that you will not accept a single donation from

the nra in the future? >> number one, the positions i hold on these issues in the second amendment i've held since the day i've entered office in the city of west miami as an elected official. no, the answer to the question is that people buy into my agenda and i do support the second amendment and i also support the right of you and everyone here to go to school and be safe and i do support any law that would keep guns out of the hands of a deranged killer. and that's why i support things i stood for and fought for -- >> more nra money? >> there -- that is the wrong way to look -- first of all, the answer is people buy into my agenda. >> you can say no. >> come on, we'll be here all night. >> the influence of these groups comes not from money. the influence comes from the millions of people that agree with the agenda. >> so a far different scene than

the white house. there are a lot of parents that lost their children, i'm not sure i would be doing anything other than screaming myself. so i'm torn by that. but i will say marco rubio showed up. the governor -- the governor of that state did not. >> that was a hopeful scene for a number of reasons. a, because marco rubio did show up and he allowed himself to be confronted by the citizens. >> again, his job. >> but the governor didn't. >> but let me say again, the job so many people don't do. and when people do their job we should i think say thank you for doing your job. >> and the other hopeful thing is -- we don't see this enough anymore. you have gifted students who were saturated in the media age and know how to talk directly to politicians but that was an example of policy in action. that was an elected official allowing himself to be confronted by the citizens.

maybe this is the soft bigotry of low expectations but when you see that happen it's a hopeful thing. >> but his answers were the kind of thing i was talking about earlier that kids don't want to hear. >> >> that's why i don't think it sent people into corners. i think it got attention in a way that he might go for background checks. >> and michael steele hi goes home after that searing experience who knows what happens when he really thinks about it? >> when his own kids talk to him. >> kissing his kids good night. >> i'd love to see that movement. i'm not hopeful for that moment because i think the political animals will remain creatures to the interests that support them. as marco said "they buy into my agenda." that's not what you want to say to that audience.

now contrast that to the white house. very emotional, very impactful. but the second scene with marco rubio, that counts at the ballot box because that's an expression of the anger, frustration, fear, and concerns that parents and students have that that will manifest to the points made earlier, joe. >> your parents saw this so much more than anybody else. something like that would happen, though you would walk on to the house floor, i would walk on the house floor and everybody would be whispering "oh, my god, did you see what happened to marco last night?" i remember when george w. bush got trounced by john mccain in new hampshire we just sat there going oh my god. i remember when columbine happened everybody just froze in the cloak room and just sat

there going oh, my god, what's happening to our country? >> and you can watch. i remember when drugs sort of started getting very serious, right? you could watch a wave going across the house floor. you could just absolutely see it with one person talking to another talking to another and you all passed drug legislation. it wasn't great legislation but that's what people thought -- >> well, if i had anything to do with it you knew it wouldn't be. >> cokie, be nice to joe. >> she didn't say it, i said that. >> it was what people thought was good at the time. the other thing, we keep talking about mental health, mental health, mental health. our mental health situation in this country is appalling. and the majority of mental health patients are in jail. those are our mental health hospitals. the biggest mental health hospital in the world is the los angeles county jail. and it is a really serious issue that -- >> it's part of health.

>> it does not help that part of the president's budget and the republicans' budget cuts mental health. >> right. >> so i guess the question that we -- we're trying to figure out is is this a moment that makes a difference? and michael to your point, i would just say as the members of congress are talking on that floor, understanding that something is happening out there, maybe it doesn't have a great impact on them but for the three or four seats within 30, 40 miles of where that was held last night, that may determine whether nancy pelosi is the next speaker of the house or paul ryan is the next speaker of the house. members running in those south florida districts that are tossups, they're paying attention and they are going to have to be responsible. >> well, this is a 2010 tea party moment in the sense that

you have a galvanized community around an issue, then it was health care, now it's guns and the script is flipping. but the baseline of what you're saying is exactly the case. every one on the peripheral of that particular experience are sitting there going, hmm, this could flood into my district, i'm concerned about the next town hall i have to go to. >> how about the next shooting? >> well, that's the thing. >> which the data shows is going to happen. >> it's going to happen. we'll have more on this complex issue. also coming up, president trump returned to familiar ground on twitter yesterday, attacking the special counsel's russian investigation while blaming president obama. he also used the opportunity to take on his own administration's attorney general. >> well, that happens a lot, doesn't it? [ laughter ] >> we'll talk to the top democrat on the house judiciary committee congressman jerry nadler next on "morning joe." last years' ad campaign was a success for choicehotels.com badda book. badda boom. this year, we're taking it up a notch.

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so we mentioned before the break that president trump is zeroing in on the justice department and attorney general jeff sessions. the president tweeted "question, if all the russian meddling took place during the obama administration right up to january 20, why aren't they the subject of the investigation? why didn't obama do something about the meddling? why aren't dem crimes under investigation? ask jeff sessions." >> that happens a lot. remember when nixon would go after john mitchell? >> martha mitchell. >> i love it when cokie condescends to you. please do that more. it's fun. it's fun to watch. not just now but before. >> what is it about my fiance that that's the second time you've engaged in conversation with me and she's interpreted it being condescending when it

wasn't? >> maybe she just thinks that a woman talking to you this way is condescending but it's not. >> you should hear the way she talks to me. >> can we get back to jeff sessions. >> sure. >> cokie, think about -- >> don't say "fiance" on the air. >> think about zbig brezezinski in his fiercest moments and it's what i'll do with all the time. >> that's a good thing for you. >> it's very good for me. >> so moving on -- >> no moving back. >> back to where we were. joining us, member of the house judiciary committee, jerry nadler of new york. also, white house correspondent for bloomberg news, shannon pettypiece. good to have you on board as well. congressman, we'll start with you. we want to first talk about the irs shoe of the day which is gun legislati legislation. did anything move you on these issues and do you think republicans will be moved? >> watching these young people

talk and watching that young fellow talk about his anguish, of course that's moving. you'd have to be a stone not to be moved by that. do i think the president or republicans were moved? i don't know. we'll find out. actions speak louder than words. we know what to do to decrease gun violence. you look at the statistics, the number of people killed by guns, the united states 33,000 a year and the only real variable is the easy availability of guns in this country. australia had a school shooting a number of years ago, they banned assault weapons, they did a number of other things and they haven't had it since. we know what to do. will we do it? i haven't seen the president or the republicans step up to the plate and evince a willingness to do anything meaningful.

we know what we ought to do. we have to eliminate the loopholes and background checks so you have to pass a background check wherever you buy a gun. we have to ban assault weapons, ban large capacity magazines. then there are subsidiary ones. ban mental health, ban sales to people who can't fly, ban sales to people who commit domestic violence even if they're not married and so forth. >> i don't disagree with any of that and the president did step up in the sense that he opened the microphone to the people affect affected but then he tweeted about jeff sessions. >> jerry, i won't talk to you about the president asking people to call his attorney general, that's unusual but what about his point that is a fair point. i believe it's a fair point not

that barack obama should be investigated but it was the obama administration that sat back while evidence mounted of russian interference in the 2016 election. what should the president have done? where did the president -- president obama come up short? >> well, i'm not sure what the president should have done. you could argue he could have spoken out sooner and so forth but he wanted to do that but he was warned by senator mcconnell, the majority leader, that if he tried to issue a call against russian interference in the elections that he would label that as partisan and the president didn't want to be seen as partisan. one could argue with that judgment. but the real question is not that. we know what happened. the real question is that the president of the united states now refuses to admit we were attacked by the russians, refuses to admit we are still

being attacked by the russians and refuses to do anything to protect us from that attack on our next election which is on goi going. his own intelligence agencies say the russian attack is continuing and will continue. he is the -- the president's oath of office is to preserve, protect and defend the constitution, there is nothing more central to the constitution than democratic with a small d election so we can govern ourselves and he's refusing to take steps to protect our elections and that's the real issue. not who should have done what when. that's subsidiary. >> congressman jerry nadler, thank you so much. great having you on. we appreciate it. so shannon what happened at the white house. how did that get set up? how did the president give them

a huge bully pulpit and what's the outcome of it? >> the white house knew that they needed to do more on this issue. they made those visits. i was traveling with the president when he was traveling to the hospital. they knew they had to do more on this. over the weekend they were putting together a schedule, he's meeting with state and local officials to keep momentum going on this but they realized over the weekend that was an issue they had to get out in front on. >> so over the weekend people i talked to said he wants to do background checks and ban bump stocks and they were talking about assault weapons -- so-called assault weapon bans. i'm sure they won't get that but i was surprised. what can you tell me about their

thinking and how far they're willing to go. >> it's a different conversation than after the las vegas shooting where the line was it's too soon to talk about this and nothing happened for months and months so there's a different tone. but based on my reporting i don't think everything is going to go as far as democrats or gun control advocates would like to see it and i think the president made that clear. he raised intentionally this issue of getting rid of gun-free school zones, of arming teachers, he said he knew that was controversial, he put that out there, that was a message that was heard well by conservatives by his base, that he was not talking about banning assault weapons and ar-15. maybe changes to background checks but that he was still there guy. >> he just tweeted "i never said give teachers guns" what i said was to look at the possibility

of giving concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience, only the best. 20% of teachers, a lot, would now be able to -- is he not done? >> yeah, i mean maybe just up there -- >> not be able to. >> so any way -- so the president has moved, though, it pains me to do this. >> go ahead, you can. >> i will defend the president. the president has moved on background checks. again, i cannot tell you how much resistance -- personally -- i've received as a form er nra-approved congressman to talk about background checks. that's something you could never talk about. bump stocks didn't move after vegas. they're talking about it now. there is some movement. >> what happens in the next few

days and weeks will be crucial because like we saw with this immigration debate, the moment they opened the cameras and then the hard-liners on immigration got to his ear so no doubt he will be hearing from his allies who are not for background checks. it is cpac in town. he will be attending that and speaking there. i would love to see where we are next week. >> the question for the president will be is it going to be little miller? is it going to be steve bannon? is it going to be cpac or is it going to be the parents and those kids that you had into your home, that you listened to with their gut wrenching stories, their rage, their profound fear. >> and for a president who understands television and messaging, they have something powerful that he understands. >> if i'm at the white house, though, you talked about cpac being in town, i would be horrified by the clips. i'm serious, that could possibly come out of cpac, somebody being extraordinarily insensitive,

maybe it's -- >> seth corker will be speaking on guns, undoubtedly. >> arpaio. >> well, clarke. and so many other people, what if they something outrageous? >> chances are very high. and then everybody will say well, are you really going to speak at cpac? any good this was done yesterday -- >> he's going go speak at cpac. >> he is. but i'm saying if that's not handled correctly, that is a real problem. >> shannon thank you very much. coming up, how long will the nra emerge from this growing never again movement? that part of the story is still to come on "morning joe."

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that like half the guns in america are owned by 3% of americans. >> they're collectors. and to be fair to the vast majority of gun owners, they're responsible citizens. but the horse has left the barn in a kind of way. we have so many guns floating around through our society that background checks, all the things are useful but they do not stop the next shooting attack. >> but perhaps they do if you have somebody like this shooter -- >> they'll stop somebody and they won't stop the next. >> right. >> i'm not against putting cops at schools. >> teachers should teach and cops should be cops. that's the argument. >> but the thing is maybe you have somebody like this or i know they arrested somebody in washington state that said i'm going to kill even more people than the last person. >> and his grandmother reported him. she read his journal. >> right.

if you see something -- >> and she said something. it was acted on. still ahead on "morning joe," it won't an easy conversation but one that needs to be had. we're going to talk to the father of 14-year-old jamie guttenberg. new reporting from nbc news, federal investigators are looking into what whether paul manafort promised a banker a job in the white house in return for millions of dollars in loans. >> who would ever think paul manafort could be -- >> he would never do that. this is crazy talk. >> innocent until proven guilty. >> we'll talk about the latest in the russia probe with house intel committee member congressman joaquin castro next on "morning joe." make something for dinner.

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joining us now, a member of the house intelligence and foreign affairs committees, democratic congressman joaquin castro of texas. thank you very much for being on this morning. a lot to talk about.

i want to start with the issue of the day, congressman. how do you think the president did yesterday inviting family members and friends and victims of gun violence into the white house and hearing from them? >> i thought it was very important for him to do that. i think it's good to that he listened to their stories and had a conversation with them about their experience and what they believe needs to be done. i think it's an important first step and we've even heard some promising statements from him about bump stocks and background checks. that is some reporting into what the white house might be thinking and then remember all of that right now is just talk. it has to be turned into legislative action in the coming weeks and months and if that happens it will be very positive for the white house and country. >> congressman, jeff goldberg here. you know your republican colleagues very well.

do you think that they are moving the way you think donald trump might be moving? >> that's so hard to tell because the country has suffered through so many of these tragedies. we thought there was momentum to do something and it fizzles out and nothing happens and the nra wins again so i hope this time will be different. like many have said, it feels like this time is different but when we go back next week in the house, i think we'll have a better sense of the chatter there, what people are talking about and how they're feeling. >> cokie roberts? >> congressman, cokie roberts here. senator cornyn from your state is talking about legislation with senate or murphy. that's a big change for him. do you see change in texas that he is responding to? >> yeah. senator cornyn talked about that several months back and, again, nothing became of it. he's talking about it again which is also very positive. i hope that it materializes.

i hope it's true that he's willing to take action because that's not the only thing that has to happen. we also need universal background checks. we have to ban bump stocks and you have to either abandon the assault rifle or assault weapons or limit high capacity magazines so that somebody can't shoot off 30 rounds before somebody even turns around and has a chance to respond. >> michael steel. >> congressman, i want to shift gears a little bit. the immigration debate is still sort of seething in the background here. we watched the senate shoot down not one were four bills last week. the one supported by the president got the least amount of support. what happens on march 6? is this daca issue dead now? is this something that becomes the new normal? we watch the daca recipients being escorted out of the country? what does this look like on the

sixth of march if something gets done by the 5th. >> that's a great question. many of us have been working day in and day out. provide some kind of daca relief. especially since 83% of americans or more support allowing the dreamers to stay here. that march 5 date is an important one and what i think you'll see is many stories of people who will be deported. and remember, the government has all of the information of these young people. they know exactly where they are. if this administration is determined to send agents to people's homes in a round up fashion, they can certainly do that. so you can imagine for the dreamers for daca recipients, this is a very scary time. a lot of anxiety and fear and in congress, those of us in congress going to keep pushing to get this done. >> nbc news is reporting that reporting that federal investigators are probing

whether paul manafort promised a chicago banker a job in the trump white house in return for $16 million in home loans. two people with direct knowledge of the matter say that special counsel robert mueller's team is investigating whether there's a quid pro quo agreement between manafort and steven caulk, the president of the savings bank, announced of member of candidate trump's counsel of economic advisers in august of 2016. around the time manafort left the campaign, after reports questioned the millions manafort received while working for prorussian interests in ukraine. sources say that three separate loans manafort received in december of 2016 and january of 2017 from caulk's bank were for homes in new york city, virginia, and the hamptons. caulk, who did not receive a job in president trump cabinet did not return requests for comment. a spokesman for manafort repeated a previous statement

saying his loans were over clat i collateralized and above market rate. new charges against manafort may have been filed under zeal after mueller's team indicated last week it has uncovered additional information involving bank fraud. the white house did not respond for a request for comment. congressman, you're a member of the intel committee. what do you make of this and the president's tweet about jeff sessions? >> first, i think robert mueller has paul manafort right where he wants him. based on reporting and based on everything i've seen over the last year, it seems like paul manafort has been a shady character for quite some time. so there's probably not only that, but other things that they can still go after. and i suspect that robert mueller is trying to get paul manafort to cooperate with him in this investigation. because remember, paul manafort was the campaign manager of the donald trump campaign for a period of time, but also was

involved with a lot of russians and ukrainians and i think had a lot of information if he was willing to speak with the special prosecutor about the relationships that were involved between trump campaign and the russians. so i would expect more to come. >> yes. congressman, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. and still ahead on morning joe. >> senator rubio, i just listened to your opening and thank you. i want to like you. here's the problem. and i'm a brutally honest person so i'm just going to say it upfront. when i like you, you know it. when i'm pissed at you, you know it. your comments this week and the comments of our president have be pathetically weak. >> his daughter was killed last week in the florida school massacre. last night, he had some tough questions for senator marco

rubio. he joins us next on morning joe. whoooo.

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i want to explain to you why it would not.

>> senator rubio, my daughter running down a hallway at stoneman douglas was shot in the back with an assault weapon. the weapon of choice. >> yes, sir. >> okay. it is too easy to get. it is a weapon of war. the fact that you can't stand with everybody in this building and say that, i'm sorry. >> sir, i do believe what you're saying is true. >> that was fred guttenberg. father of 14-year-old jamie who was killed in last week's school shooting in florida. top of the hour here on morning joe. joining us now from parkland florida is fred guttenberg. i don't know how you're doing this, but we thank you. >> good morning. >> for those out there who still don't get it, who still don't think that change needs to happen immediately, can you please describe what it's like in your house right now?

>> my house is broken. and honestly, i don't know how we fix it. my daughter and anyone who knew her will tell you this. she was energy everywhere she went. she created the laughter in our house. she was silly with us. she was silly with her friends. she was someone who brought buzz where she went. and she was tough. my house, i mean, honestly mika and joe, morning joe was ritual in my house and in the mornings my kids knew when you guys were on, when one of you was absent. my daughter is no longer walking in and asking me, what are they talking about today. my house is forever changed and because she got hunted at school. these kids and i'm standing here at a park with this amazing memorial that this community put

together, they got hunted. they got hunted with the only weapon that could do it. you can't drive a car through school hallways. can't be a bicep a weapon of ch a knife, she would have ran from that and won. i'm aware of the video in the hallways of this school. they've seen what happened to my daughter. running down the hall, running for her life. my daughter knew what was about to happen. and she took a shot through the back, single shot. severing her spinal cord. done. dead. and i'm shook to my core. i can't bring her back, but these amazing kids and this amazing community, i can only say people messed where the wrong people. we're not letting this go. our children need to be able to go to school.

all i did on valentine's day, a day of love, my wife's favorite holiday, all that i did is i sent my kid to school. she doesn't come home to us. my brother, i'm sorry. my son. he lost his sister. first night he came down crying, he's an only brother now. it's unacceptable. this can't happen to another family. i apologize if i'm rambling. it's just been that kind of week. >> no. you're not rambling. >> you're not fred. you know, i can't tell you looking at the pictures and hearing you talking about your daughter how closely that hits home to me because my daughter is the same age. i can't imagine what you're going through. we sit and talk all the time about her future and what she's going to do.

and i just want you just for a minute or as long as you want to take, tell us, tell us about jamie. tell us what she wanted to do with her life. tell us what motivated her. >> sure. >> and tell us what you and your wife saw in her that everybody watching this show in this country needs to know we lost as a country. florida lost as a state, and you lost as a father. >> sure. well, my daughter, number one, she was a great daughter. great sister. she was tough as nail nails. my daughter is standing on my shoulder pushing me forward through this because in my home, the philosophy was you always do what's right. no matter how hard it is. my daughter was tough. she was also fun. she made people laugh.

her craziness sometimes she made them cry too, but everywhere she went, people knew her and loved being with her. she was the life of the party. she was the energy in the room. my daughter she was only 14. you know, when she was born, my son when he was born, he was a relatively -- he was quiet when he was born and always been kind of chill. my daughter came of screaming. 20 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour later. still screaming. i looked at my life and said this one is not like the other one. and she never was. she was always vocal and had to be heard, but at this age of 14, she knew what she wanted out of her life. she loved her dance community. and dance was always going to be a part of her life. she also was tough and stood up for kids who were bullied.

part of the best buddies program. she was part of something called the friendship initiative which is a program down here that works with kids who have special needs. she volunteered her spare moments doing that. my daughter when she grew up, knew she wanted to be married and have a kid by 25. she knew she wanted to be a physical therapist. looking for an institute which is kids with limb deformities. this world lost my kid who had her life figured out at 14 who had such a strong head on her so she recalled shoulders that nothing could take that away until something did. my daughter is lost. oulders th take that away until something did. my daughter is lost. my daughter is lost. this community has lost 16 other amazing people because they were hunted at school. >> fred, we were all riveted by what happened last night.

what would you like marco rubio, senator rubio, senator nelson, not only the governor who didn't show up last night. i think shamefully, but of course the state of florida is going to be electing another governor this year. >> yes. >> what do you need them to do so when you look back, you can say that along with the parents who lost their children at sandy hook, along with those who lost their loved ones in orlando, that you can say there's a whole in my life that can never be filled, but she didn't die in vein. what do you mean.

i just refuse to look. going on adrenaline here. here's what i need. i'll do it to the others as well. i need them to be honest. this is the teachers. they were killed by a weapon of war in their school. these weapons or war need to be removed from the streets. my heart is big because of friends of mine who have been life long. we need to stop this.

money they are receiving from this group. some people stand with the nra. i stand with msd. which is marjory stoneman douglas. we need to take the weapons out of the hands of anyone and we certainly need to deal with the mental health issues that are part of this whole process, but the problem is there's only one weapon that can cause this kind of destruction in a school to be secure. the next thing we need to do. we need to make schools more secure. shouldn't be that easy to get on a school property. it shouldn't be this easy to keep on doing this. we need to have funding for more security in the schools. what we do not need and i will tell you, i heard the little sit-down yesterday at the oval office. and i went out last night enraged. we do not need to start throwing more guns in the hands of teachers and students at school.

knowing what took place better than everyone who might have some opinions on this or most people, it was pandemonium. people were running all over the place. you cannot have shootouts the hallways of a school. you can't. it doesn't save lives. it will lead to the loss of additional lives. we need to have more security. we need to have more protection around the schools. we need to make it impossible for people to get those guns. you know, you go to the pharmacy to pick up a prescription and many cases it's going to be harder than it was for this person to get the gun that was used to hunt these people. i don't understand how someone can't agree with me that's a problem. >> we've been trying to talk about it here on the set. it might be better coming from you.

if someone from the nra says that assault weapons are their god given right. it's the right to bear arms, what do you say? >> my daughter had rights more than just the second amendment. they've all been terminated. okay. that's what i say. i'm a believer in the second amendment. assault weapons are simply allowed through an interpretation of what the second amendment is. okay. i say we need to be real. we need to be realistic. i wanted my kid to live out all of her rights. i sent my son out to go shooting with his grandfather about a month ago. i have no issue with any of that, but we shouldn't put in place a process that makes it so easy through some bastardized interpretation to get these weapons. i'm sorry. to the core of my being, i just

can't agree. >> let me ask you about also law enforcement. >> i apologize for my language. i'm sorry. >> no. >> your language is certainly fine. we all understand it. let me ask you about law enforcement as well. the president talked about enhanced background checks marco rubio brought that up last night. that is a change even after las vegas. even after newtown, even after everything else. >> absolutely. >> what about law enforcement? what about we've heard about the fbi missing and you talked about this last night missing a warning, but also you had local law enforcement officers being called to the shooters house, something like 30, 35 times over the past couple years. and somehow the guy still

able -- first of all, they didn't move on him. secondly, we need people from florida, you and me, we tuns ba we understand the baker. we need to toughen up the baker act. to keep guns away from people who are mentally ill. what do you think about the fact that law enforcement officers were warned all of these times and this guy could -- this teenager, troubled teenager could still walk in a store and get ar 15. >> i'm glad you asked that. first things first, law enforcement in the past week from the day of the shooting and even knowing many members of local law enforcement, i just want to on tv wrap my arms around you and give you a big hug. they have given me strength. they have been unbelievable. they have been everywhere. they have done everything that

they can do. they have been the backbone of our community for the past week and i am thankful for them. as for what happened prior to the shooting, i actually think we need to look at the laws that make it very difficult for law enforcement to go out on these tips. i don't blame law enforcement for it. i say i blame the laws we have in place and we need to immediately do something about that. as for the fbi, the morning that i was planning my daughter's funeral, i was sitting with the funeral director when i got a call from the fbi telling me it was about to be public about their mistakes and had proper protocol been followed, this person would have been apprehended by them in january. if i understood the mistake quickly. i was in a pretty confused place

at the time. if i understand that correctly, somebody needs to be fired. someone -- or maybe we need to look at the process that led to the break down and close that hole immediately. because if in fact that is correct that this person should have been apprehended back in january and this could have been avoided, i hope somebody is deeply digging into what took place in that breakdown. and fixing it because we can't have this again. >> fred, you say you're running on adrenaline and your voice on this is crystal clear. i'm wondering how your wife is doing. how is she going to get through this? >> we start our day at the cemetery. that's what we do now. my wife lost her baby on her favorite holiday of the year.

my wife will get through this because we're a strong family. my son will get through this. my wife is heart broken. we cry a lot. we look at pictures and talk a lot. we haven't walked into my daughter's room yet. my wife is going to be okay because i know who we are. it's not going to be easy. it's going to take a while. to just add to this. my wife is the most private person you'll ever meet. so to have this happen in the way that it did, and to have what's going on here going on, adds insult to injury, but in spite of her intensely private way of being, she also understands the mission that i am determined to take on. i am -- and i will not stop. i'm going to be relentless.

this can't happen again. and while she's private, she's supports me and we -- that's where we're at right now. it's sort of day by day. we're going to figure this out. >> you know, fred, i'm looking behind you at that memorial. and it reminds me of what i saw sandy hook over five years ago. i would go up there very early in the morning, but before anybody was up actually and i kept going up there. i took a picture of 20 rows that were frozen in late december and kept kit on my wall for five years thinking that somehow some way we had to stop this from happening again. that was over five years ago. now i'm looking bind you at a memorial that looks about the same as what i saw in sandy hook

with all the broken hearts with people swearing never again. >> it's unbelievable. >> how do you -- what hope do you have that i won't be calling you on this show five years from now to talk about the fight against these weapons of war and this culture. and you won't be consoling a father just like you who lost their 14-year-old daughter. what hope you do have that this can stop? >> a week ago my soul was shattered. this week because of people, reaching out. stepping up. my hope is restored. because of the kids who a week

ago i had my concerns over because we know they live in their cell phones. these kids have restored my faith. they have been unbelievable. they have been strong and fierce. these kids are my hope. here's the thing. unlike in past shootings, these kids are at an age where they can verbalize and fight and this shooting was caught on video. the cell phones came out. you can't hide from what happened. and because of that and the fight in these kids and fight in me, i have hope. i think this time was different. and i think we're going to get something done. it may not happen tomorrow. it should, but it's going to happen. >> all right. fred. >> we're with you. >> listen, thank you. >> listen, please tell your wife and your son that our family

will be thinking about you and we'll be praying for you and we will be open to any time you want to come back on and talk about this. there's just nothing that we can say other than we are so sorry and. >> we're with you. >> we're with you. so thank you for being here. >> fred guttenberg. >> thank you. thank you. we'll be right back.

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all right. we're going to bring in our panel here a little larger than usual since we cleared out our last segment for fred guttenberg. columnist for the daily beast margaret carlson. chief washington reporter and columnist for the boston he recalled, kimberly at kins and

columnist at the washington examiner, birthday girl. kristen anderson. kins and columnist at the washington examiner, birthday girl. kristen anderson. let's go to the birth gator first. christen, since you are a gator, since you have grownup like me around republicans and also a lot of people who own guns, i want to start with you. everybody is asking, i'm really not sure exactly what i saw yesterday. there's so much coming at us. so many things happening in the white house, tallahassee, that town howl meall meeting last ni trying to figure out is this going to be different than orlando or different than sandy hook? seen a little movement in some areas, but what do you think, especially with the voters that you focus on so much and that is millennials. >> this time feels like it could

be different. it's too soon to tell. most polls taken in the immediate aftermath of tragedy is there's increase on the issue. that effect can disappear over time. we've now it was not too many months ago the tragedy in las vegas occurred. the most recent polling i've seen of millennials on this issue took place right in the aftermath of las vegas shooting and did show a big increase in the millennials thinking we need to prioritize gun control. typically one of those issues that millennials are actually not that much more progressive on. than older voters. other issues, lgbt rights, climate change, guns has not been one of those issues. that could be changing. and also bear in mind the victims of this attack and people speaking out now, they're not millennials. they're general z. for my generation, i was in high

school. i was 14 when the columbine attacks happened. same age as these kids now. that's their age. will this come to define their generation o generation's views of guns the way columbine did for a lot of people my age, i think that remains to be seen. >> margaret, we ask if this is different. those of us who have been around much longer than others have been around. talking about myself as well. >> not you mika. i keep saying you're 24. >> right. >> but kristen wrote a book called the selfie vote. and students who are politically active because it's the selfie generation are so comfortable in front of cameras and had many people wiping their eyes all day yesterday. it's so powerful. i'm trying to figure out. have you seen anything since

student protests in vietnam when we were all much younger. and now much younger than people getting engaged. >> no. if they take up this cause, they're not like us. they are the instagram generation. and they're not exhausted by the battle. they find it -- i mean, they have this bottom lessor row mixed with its incomprehensible to them that we the adults didn't bring this fight against assault weapons and semi automatic assault weapons.

they can sustain it because they won't be beaten down by the one issue voter. >> they have energy and also have rage at this point. and fear. and this generation has the ability to communicate. that our generation does not have. because they're so used to speaking on camera and they are not worried about using their voices. the they feel comfortable. >> they're ready for tv. >> they are. the president has been tweeting about guns all morning. i want to look at these and get to phillip and anna and kimberly. i will be strongly pushing comprehensive background checks with emphasis on mental health 6789 raise age to 21. end sale on bump stocks. congress is in the move to finally do something on this issue. phillip, is congress ready? >> well, sorry. that was a major. congress might be ready. we'll have to see. i thought marco rubio last night was interesting. that was a real turn about for him. he's been very loyal to the nra

and the narra has been loyal to him. >> tough night for him. >> tough night. he seemed to shift a little bit. certainly talking about being open to some sort of change in magazine sizes. he talked about the age issues. background checks is so popular. it couldn't get done five years ago. maybe this is the moment if the president, a republican is really to champion it. >> weirdly, i feel the president helped on this issue yesterday. what do you think. >> trump say s a lot of things. >> he let other people talk. >> i want to talk about something he mentioned in the tweet which is the mental health issue. got brought up a lot last night. dana lash made reference to ntst and crazy people and sick co-s. i have a mental health issue.

a couple of them. i'm not afraid to talk about it. i take it seriously. there's no connection between mental health and gun violence. less than 5% of violent crimes are committed by people with mental health issues. they're 12 times more likely to be a victim of violent cream including gun crime than the people of normal population. one study to estimate to prevent one violent crime committed by a person with mental health issue, you would have to lock up 35,000 people. i don't think we want that in this crown try. other countries have the same rate of mental illness than we do. they have ten times less the gun violence than we do. the main drimpifference betweens country and other countries isn't how sick we are. it's how many guns we have. the kids may be more progressive on gun issues than adults, but they are progressive in a different way. they weren't taking that mental health answer from anyone last night. i think that's because this generation is okay with talking

about mental health and they're okay with sort of identity issues. they want people to be treated equally they're not paying attention to that part of the argument. that argument isn't enough for them. they are focusing on the guns. >> assault weapons. >> and also again, mika, as we've seen in our families as we've heard from our friends, people who work for us. children are afraid to go to school. they are scared. many deeply trauma tidesed. there was also a problem if you focus too much on mental health. we need to focus on mental health. if you focus too much, you may discourage some people from going out. and making sure they're

treated. they may hide in the shadows as well. there really are no easy answers here. what are you seeing on the hill? what are you hearing in washington. >> i think that's right on the mental health issue. that was a big point that was being made about that regulation that the president reversed from the obama era that required the social security administration to report when people were receiving disability benefits for mental health issues to the gun registry. a lot of people said that it would discourage people from actually seeking help and that was one argument on that side. mental health is also a big issue that you hear the nra talk about repeatedly. that is a long time nra talking point. addressing mental health. i'm sure they were happy to hear the president talk about that. i think what you're going to see is two strong forces here. growing force of young people going forward and going to tallahassee. they'll be here in washington next month. and i don't see that subsiding

any time soon. they are taking on one of the most politically powerful associations, which is the nra. it's going to be which side pulls lawmakers more. you saw these kids really seem to really affect the president yesterday. he listened to them. he spoke in favor of things like raising the age of buying rifles and guns to 21. still tweeting that today a day after the nra came out very quickly and said they oppose that idea. so far it's been less than 24 hours. you have the president taking a position contrary to the nra. you see like you said senator rubio seeming to move. that's the struggle you will see lawmakers when they come back here from their recess really start to struggle more and more with. >> the national rifle association is out with a new web ad with rhetoric that pins mass shootings on the mainstream media. >> i'm in no way saying people in the media wish for the death of innocent people.

i don't believe that at all. the truth of the matter is if there's one organization in this country that has a vested interest in the perp petuation of mass tragedy. it is maintain stream media. it's disgusting the kids running out of the school see microphones in their faces before they see their parents. what the kids don't realize is they are now being forced to play a part in a multimillion dollar production. look at the way they react when they think there might be another shooting. like a bunch of volture tuvoltv . cher. . you just put on the casting call for the next mass shooter. >> when promoting itself, the nra is no stranger to using violent rhetoric and imagery, even by dana lash, the spokesperson who participated in last night's cnn town hall.

here is some of what she said in the past on nra tv. >> they use their media to assassinate real news. they use their schools to tell the president is another hitler. all to make them march. make them protest. make them scream racism and xenophobia and homophobia. to shutdown interstates and airports. bully and terrorize the law law-abidi law-abiding. the only way we save our country and freedom is to fight the violence of lies with a clenched fist of truth. the ultimate insult is they think we're so stupid we'll let them get away with it. and sure, we're coming for you. slashing away with their leaks, drive their daggers through the heart of our future. so they can build utopia of ashes they burn down. they will perish in the political fames of their own

fires. these savage wars share the same part tory apart the foundations of america as the terrorists who threaten our very survival. and together, they march hand in hand towards a possible purposeful destruction of us all. >> you know, it would be too easy to look at the people in front of the cameras and focus your anger and disgust at them. you should instead focus on wayne la pierre and focus on the financers who are making money off every mass tragedy when gun sales sky rocket. it's just too simple too look at those people and say my god. they're doing wayne la pierres. they're doing the nra dc lobbyist bidding. and those people are doing the bidding of financers

extraordinarily wealthy people who are making money off of these tragedies to sell more military style guns that many of the pentagon thought should have been used in vietnam because they were more lethal than the weapons that our soldiers used in the jungles of vietnam. margaret, that's just insigcitet of violence. if somebody gets killed, that's going to be exhibit one in court and they're going to be -- and wayne la pierre is going to be held liable. the multimillionaires or the billionaires that they're doing the bidding for. >> i never seen a full frontal real of dana lash. it's quite shocking. what that shows me is the nra usually goes to ground and goes silent. they're scared this time or the

ad wouldn't be out there. i think it shows maybe they see a difference. maybe the young people are going to have this as their one issue. and if they do, they will be a force against the nra. >> i wonder about people like myself who support the second amendment and have always supported the second amendment. i differ in a few ways with the nra. these people going out and talking about whether they distance themselves from that violent rhetoric. >> that nra ad was remarkable. i have to wonder how many republicans on capitol hill behind us are even going to be willing to stand behind that. that's just not a mainstream message. and that's not something a lot of americans would get behind. >> i think we really have to disentangle the second amendment and nra. i own a gun. come from a family of gun owners. my father is a gun collector. i have no problem with the idea

of people being able to defend themselves. i have a problem with assault weapons. i have a problem with the nra actually hindering like efficient background checks and waiting periods. i think that you can be for all of the things the nra says it's for and be against the nra. the nra used to be a safety organization. it used to be a hunters organization. those are the things people want from the organization. >> that was the father of guttenberg saying her son is going out shooting with his uncle. we're all talking about the same thing. >> they claim to represent the gun owners and they do not. >> by the way, they try to claim that people want to confiscate guns. people are scared of guns. without getting in too much detail, and, again, i will enrage a lot of people that watch this show, mika and i took my nine-year-old and my

14-year-old girl to go do a shooting range and shooting shotguns and not only are we not afraid of it. we actually mika grew up around it. had guns all over the place in their house locked up. this whole thing. nobody wants to confiscate anything. >> no. >> i'm saying nobody certainly. >> no one in the mainstream of this argument does. and notice you know, i grew up where the opening of deer hunting season was a holiday. notice how we preface what we want to say with apologies that we don't want to do anything that gun owner don't want us to do, but they don't apologize to us for what they want. which is a totally to be free to buy an ar 15. >> i mean, come on. >> we're still arguing on their

ground. >> 18-year-olds, 19-year-olds with backgrounds that should actually limit them from doing many things. sort of this -- by the way, i'm just curious. have you ever seen those nra ads before. >> i've seen pieces of them. the most recent one that you showed where they're making statements about the mainstream media praying on the kids, i hadn't seen that one. i will say i would expect based on everything that i've seen in polling and focus groups that the message of the media is in the wrong for going and interviewing these kids. could have some resonance. you can believe the 17-year-olds, 16-year-olds should have every right to be speaking their mind and also feel a little uncomfortable and worry that they're being exploited, but at the same time what really bothers me about the dean is we had a lot of discussion about if someone is

18 are they mature enough to buy a gun. 17 mature enough to have an opinion. driving me nuts to hear people denigrating teenagers for having these views. we make fun of them saying these are the kids eating tied pods. this generation is so dumb. now they're caring about something. even if i don't agree with ever policy prescription they put forward, i don't agree with every policy prescription a 70-year-old puts forward. go watch a high school debate tournament for one weekend and your mind will be changed about the power of how much thought a 16 or 17-year-old can put into a policy issue. >> exactly. and scared to death. the media prays upon them. they can accuse the president of that yesterday who had a very thoughtful panel in the oval office hearing from kids themselves about what happened to them. >> happy birth again kristen. great to have you. phillip, feel better.

>> thank you so much. i read tit about two or three months late. first of all, your dad seems like a cool guy. >> he just texted me. >> hi, sam. >> seems like a very cool guy. and i'm really glad that it was printed. >> it's an article about mental illness and my recovery. and my love for the frogs. >> and the person that helped you get it in si. >> charlie pearce. his original gig. he was originally a sports writer. >> thank you very much for sharing and being on. kimberly, thank you. we've been talking about the epidemic of gun violence raging in america and sadly it's not the only national issue that needs serious immediate attention and leadership. up next, time magazine and special report on what is likely

the public healthy crisis. that is still to come on "morning joe."

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worse public health crisis in history. this time in time magazine out with a special report. the opioid diaries. the first time in over six years a and. also the first time time in history has devoted a complete issue to one photographers work. joining us now, edward. time deputy editor and director of visual enterprise and time deputy director of photography and enterprise. good to have you all on board. >> why this issue, why now?

this is another use the word epidemic. so far 64,000 deaths, opioid related deaths in 2016. about the same as all of our recent words including vietnam combined. and, you know, the statistics tell only part of the story. and we felt it was urgent to not only devote a full issue to it, but we asked the photographer to show us the human suffering, the human story individuals one by one through this issue. and through this package that i think and we hope bring the story to full attention and full focus. >> what will readers see when think get the magazine. >> they'll see a magazine devoted corner to corner on this

topic. and jim, the photographer, who has been working for over three decades all over the world, he's really one of the most important photographers of century. he is the voice of the whole issue. and including the pictures. we've interviewed over 200 people. we really have it in their first person. and, you know, jim has brought a humanity to not only the first responders but to also the people, the addicts, the parents. we've gone to cities from san francisco, to boston, mexico, west virginia, kentucky, all over the country. we've spent last year really documenting this. >> paul, you were on site. >> yes. >> tell me how -- how did this asignment, how did it impact

you? how did this story affect you personally? >> sure. i think after being on the ground for months with jim and following in his foot steps, think we just wanted to tell a very human story. we're looking at very hard situations. these are very vulnerable people in states of chaotic addiction. i think we wanted to add a lot of dimension to what they're going through and the pain they're going through at that time. i think you're looking at some pictures. there's an image of a woman under a truck in the freezing cold trying to use drugs. at this point, the drugs have totally taken over. you're seeing, you know, young people out on streets and you're talking to them about their lives. and you realize their mothers are out there checking in on them at night and then this one subject, billy, i ended up going to his mother's house after spending a couple days with him. and then you're hearing the stories about parents coping. what it's like to come out as a parent that your kid is out

there homeless doing i.v. drugs and how do you hold on to hope, what gives you hope. is it your child is still alive and has another chance? there are incredible stories of parents who are just kind of coming out at this point who felt very emboldened at this moment, that they needed to say something, and that's what we wanted to i think get across with the photographs that jim was making. >> edward, i think what -- what this issue will capture, but it's part of the story that's so important, is not only the victims of this crisis, but the ravaging of families across this country. >> absolutely. >> who are the other part of the story. >> absolutely. i think one of the really, for me, powerful aspects of the story is the way we come back to characters that paul and jim met in their travels. you meet them.

you meet the counselors who are helping them. you meet the jailors who are jailing them. you meet their families who are struggling and hoping with them. and i think another really searing aspect of this, and we hear this, paul heard this, from so many of the first responders in particular, is the sameness of their work. that we meet a sheriff in ohio who visits the same person in trouble eight times over a two-week period. and point here is we have to change that. >> we had eric bolling on last week i think or the week before who lost his son, mika, i've had friends who have lost their children from this. we all know people. it's touched us all. >> every community. >> and unfortunately, it's just growing. the line's going straight up. >> which is why we're really

glad you did this "times" latest issue -- >> thank you, so much. >> thank you, thank you. >> edward, paul, thank you very much. up next, he said it better than we ever could. we'll reflect on what the factor of a school shooting victim told us just moments ago. that's next on "morning joe." ...it starts a chain reaction... ...that's heard throughout the connected business world. at&t network security helps protect business, from the largest financial markets to the smallest transactions, by sensing cyber-attacks in near real time and automatically deploying countermeasures. keeping the world of business connected and protected. that's the power of and. experand the nx hybrid... nx, with a class leading 31 mpg combined estimate. take advantage of special president's day offers now through the 28th, on the 2018 nx 300. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

you or joints. something for your heart... but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brain-health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. you know, i talked, mika, to a friend, a longtime republican friend of mine in politics. several weeks ago. i often call him. say, what am i doing wrong? he said, joe, you know, you need to call balls and strikes. that's what we've always loved about you, even if, you know, you went against the party, call balls and strikes and right now it just seems like you're not doing that. that's not why i said what i said about the president today. i said what i said about the

president today because yesterday the president got it right. this morning, he has followed up with some tweets that if we had been moving in that policy direction four years ago, a lot of people would have been thrilled. so this morning, you know, if the pitch is right down the middle and it's a strike, you call a strike. i know some people don't like that. but you know what, the president turned the mic over to the kids and the parents yesterday who were grieving and yes, that's his job, a lot of politicians don't did do their jobs. he did his job yesterday and america's better for it. i also got to say, too, marco rubio, it was a rough night for marco rubio. i didn't like a lot of his answers. they sounded pat. marco rubio showed up. there was a dialogue when he was being shouted down. that's what more elected leaders

need to do. that's a strike down the middle of the play. i think it's good. >> well, and i think that -- i agree his answers were pat but you have to know that he showed up. he experienced what he experienced. he heard from the victims and their families themselves. and that was raw. and it was incredibly powerful. and just like the president and the president's team, listen to the families. it may have an impact over time. you don't go to bet td the same person after an experience like this. >> this is the millennial moment. >> yes. >> and you're going to watch this, folks, this is not just florida, this is going to spread through that millennial vein across the country. the status quo ante is about to fall down. >> we leave you now with what he

said this morning. he puts it perfectly. he lost his daughter jamie to the mass shooting in florida eight days ago. >> my daughter had rights. more than just the second amendment. they've all been terminated. okay. that's what i say. i'm a believer in the second amendment. assault weapons are simply allowed through a bastardized interpretation. i wanted my kid to live out all of her rights. i sent my son out to go shooting with his grandfather about a month ago. i have no issue with any of that. but we shouldn't put in place a process that makes it so easy through some bastardized interpretation to get these weapons. i'm sorry. to the core of my being, i just can't agree. my wife is the most intensely

private person you'll ever meet. so to have this happen in the way that it did and to have what's going on here going on adds insult to injury, but in spite of her intensely private way of being, she also understands the mission that i am determined to take on. i will not stop. i'm going to be relentless. this can't happen again. and while she's private, she supports me. and we, we -- that's where we're at right now. it's sort of day by day. we're going to figure this out. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, listen up. victims of mass shootings make their case to the president in a

raw and emotional face-to-face session. their message very clear. >> should have been one school shooting and we should have fixed it. and i'm pissed. it's my daughter i'm not going to see again. >> while in florida, survivors of the parkland shooting go hard at marco rubio. >> senator rubio, can you tell me right now that you will not accept a single donation from the nra in the future? >> boom, setting the stage, as the nation engages in rebate about gun reform, cpac kicks off and conservatives say guns are very much on the agenda. >> it would be a mistake for cpac to back away from having the appropriate conversations around the second amendment. >> we begin today with what could be a turning point for the gun control movement. all day wednesday, we witnessed emotional pleas from those who have lost children and