treason. >> democracy is in trouble. profound trouble. in addition to this, nicole, we have two images. we have the election of cindy hyde-smith and we have the images of the u.s. government tear gassing babies in diapers. we're in crisis. crisis moment profoundly. >> my thanks to my panel. that does it for our hour. i'm nicole daily. chuck is back. >> hi, nicole. i have 14 different ways that somebody might construct justice here trying to figure out which one of them the president likes the best? >> can i pick all of the above? >> i think they are all of the above. thank you, nicole. if it's wednesday, apparently a pardon is possible. good evening, i'm chuck todd

here in washington, well come to "mtp daily." we begin with obstruction in plain sight. why would paul manafort break his plea deal by lying to mueller's team? why they would do something highly unusual by it being possibly illegal? why would manafort basically risk spending the rest of his life in prison unless there was a presidential pardon on the table? well, the president basically just confirmed it for us. there's a pardon on the table. that's what he told "the new york post." he told them that pardoning paul manafort is still a possibility. quote, it was never discussed, but i wouldn't take it off the table. why would i take it off the table? this comes after a report in "the new york times", which the president's legal team confirmed, detailing how manafort's legal team was feeding trump's legal team the questions and answers from the special counsel's interviews with manafort, and this was happening as the president was preparing his written answers to mueller's questions.

i guess you could say he was -- he had somebody else in class giving him the answers to the teacher test. it's an arrangement that makes you wonder if manafort and trump were trying to get their stories straight and it's an arrangement that is possibly illegal. some legal experts who spoke to nbc news say the arrangement could amount to obstruction of justice or witness tampering. manafort's legal team was in a position to share a lot of juicy information with the president's lawyers about mueller's investigation because manafort had a cooperation agreement as part of a plea deal to lessen his sentence, plural. that deal has now been blown up because mueller's investigators say manafort repeatedly lied to him. why would manafort share information with trump and break a deal with prosecutors? he's looking at spending the rest of his life in prison unless there's a presidential pardon on the table. there you go. and that's what he has all but confirmed there is. breaking just in the past hour, two sources familiar with the matter tell nbc news that president trump told special

counsel robert mueller in writing that he was not told beforehand about the 2016 meeting with don jr. and ronald stone did not tell him about the killings. we have a panel with us. mr. litman, let me start with you. welcome, all, by the way. why is what manafort did with the president or what the president's legal team did with manafort's legal team -- how is it not a form of obstructing justice or witness tampering? >> yeah, i mean, it sort of beats me. it's certainly a classic double cross and i can't explain how irregular it is. in the 30 years in the legal

system -- >> by the way, everything donald trump touches ends up with something saying what you're saying. in the 30 years of x -- >> it isn't just the legal world, it's the political world, it's the diplomatic world. anyway. i apologize. >> it's so true. giuliani has presented it as a sort of routine thing. yeah, we were -- we were just discussing things. look, manafort had a cooperation agreement, a great reduction in sentence and to be this double agent and funnel this information to a criminal suspect who's also the president of the united states and can reveal -- and revealing to him the contours of the prosecution's case, which is evident from the questions, that's treacherous and it definitely raises the prospect

that from manafort's end it's an obstruction of justice impeding the investigation and from trump's end it's a witness tampering or obstruction or both. the intermediaries here are lawyers who clearly know better and whose licenses as well as liberty are at stake and really i've been scratching my head since yesterday trying to figure out what could they have possibly been thinking? >> it's possible -- it's interesting what you said. is it possible that mueller's team or the department of justice could bring charges against manafort's lawyers or the president's lawyers? >> totally. more than that, while they hope and maybe expect that the communications were privileged between them, they were not. defense attorneys can enter into arrangements to speak freely.

as soon as manafort agreed to cooperate, his interests diverted. any joint agreement was viciated. there was nothing secret or privileged about those communications. it's considered -- a grass knuckles tactic. it's going to factor in.

>> watching it on tv and turns it on. >> but, you know, the question i have is that if the president was saying these things, if there's an e-mail to him suggesting to someone a pardon is on the table, if he was found to have told someone a private phone call, a pardon is on the table, would that be looked upon differently legally as potentially being a problem in terms of obstruction of justice. if the president had been caught on tape, it would be, oh, my god, breaking news. but instead the president called up a reporter and said, yeah, a pardon is on the table. what's the difference? is there a legal difference? >> it's stunning. the difference is the

president's raising this but there's no legal difference. the question is in dangling the pardon was he seeking to impede the investigation? put him in simpler terms. was he trying to keep him to save his own hyde? if so, anybody but rudy giuliani would agree that was a potential obstruction done in full open air. it's the same thing. >> michael, i've been convinced that even trump realizes a manafort pardon is just a bridge too far, that that would bring -- but you know what, the guy runs to every flame. he never runs away from flames. he runs to every flame. you know, i think he thinks the worst case scenario muddies the waters. he may do this. >> may do it, i think it's operational right now. i think what you see -- what you saw happen in the last 36 hours was, you know, putting into

motion everything that's going to lead to the president at some point in the future casting that for paul manafort. i think a lot of it had to do with the way you set this up. dangling this out here, seeing how much of a nibble would be taken. manafort bit hard because to your point, chuck, he doesn't want to go to jail. >> he's buying time. >> the president is like, perfect. guess what happens? this whole system now gets gummed up. everyone thinks mueller is discombobulated by this. i don't think so. i think in a weird way mueller anticipated this. i don't think as smart as he is and dealing with who he is, wait a minute, you guys aren't talking to each other, are you? i think for trump he thinks he's outfoxing mueller and sort of boxing him in a corner and delegitimizing him further. i don't see that in the end because of the legal analysis you were given. >> the really perverse thing is

that for trump, by treating the process with less integrity he is giving the process less integrity. >> yes. >> that is -- that's what's really disturbing. >> do that again. it's like -- i think it's worth redundancy. >> the perverse thing is the less integrity that trump treats the mueller process, the less integrity the mueller process has. so him throwing out pardons makes the -- you know, turns the process into somewhat of a joke. if he can -- if he's not treating the process with integrity, then like it actually has a perverse impact of hurting mueller. we all have a lot of faith in mueller and any time we've had the opportunity to see his work, he's light years ahead of everyone else. how does he account for an opponent, if you will, that doesn't accept playing by any set of, you know, normal

expectations. >> harry, i think the challenge for mueller here is that he has got a potential subject of this investigation who doesn't fear the legal system. in fact, he mocks it and he's done it his whole adult life. you sue him, he counter sues. you force him to file for bankruptcy, he'll file for something else. he just views the legal system as a hurdle not as sort of the be all end all. he's fighting a political campai campaign. mueller has so much to charge him with obstruction. when you start adding it up whether it's comey's notes, whether it's flynn at this point. there's so many little pieces of evidence that you could put a strong obstruction case but what's mueller thinking? >> that's really dead on. one more thing, of course, that the president is unconcerned about is the legal compulsion to

tell the truth. it's quite a challenge to face an opponent who really doesn't have any regard for it. but i think the basic play here is now political. either he's being sort of buffoonish or he's got a deeper political consideration that says, fine. this is all irregular. manafort and all of us are playing dirty, but at the end of the day you've got to make a political case. i'm already pushing that it's a witch hunt. it should end soon. that's the pressure that i'm putting on you. i'm banking, of course, on the final protection that the senate won't convict and mueller is used to playing it by the law and he may be forced into a political process where, in fact, he's not in his home court. >> is there any legal weapon that he has left with manafort? this is for mueller, to basically keep manafort in jail, keep a pardon from having an impact?

>> first it's ironic with a guy like manafort. you're already topped out. it's giving him all the penalty he has. if manafort gets a pardon under his plea agreement, he's already admitted to criminal conduct under state law so it would be a lay down for state authorities to charge him and there are some, especially tax laws, where he could be still getting a lot of time. there's really no scenario where manafort completely walks. >> it's also worth remembering that the de facto boss of this entire investigation is matt whitak whitaker, the acting attorney general who the president has appointed. >> that's supposed to be a punch line, guys. >> it's turned into a punch line. >> it's worth remembering that this is all happening and there are calls in the senate including by some republicans like jeff flake and susan collins to bring up legislation to bring up the mueller investigation. it would be purely symbolic. his republican allies in the

senate including the leadership are blocking that vote. so it is an intriguing political dynamic because they have allies who are on his side. >> i was going to say, i feel like politically the president is protected. >> of course he is. he has a 53 member wall in the senate. >> doesn't need to be 53. >> not at all. >> you don't need it to control the senate. >> exactly. but in the house he's got a foil in the a sscendence of nancy pelosi. he is play political ping pong. mueller is caught in the political vortex trying to do the legally correct thing by getting buffeted by political waves. >> the thing that's different is you have a democratic house with able democratic leadership, not just soon to be speaker poe lows si, but adam schiff, elijah

couplings. when the mueller report comes out, if there's a case to prosecute there in the house, it will be very able at doing that. and the support for nixon hung in there really late. >> long time. >> long time and then it collapsed. >> the bottom line -- >> i'm not thinking that but remember that. >> it looks like it will be a 235 to 230 house majority f. they decide to impeach. in the senate you need 20 republicans. 20. >> harry litman, if bob mueller subpoenaed rudy giuliani over this, would that surprise you? >> i think so. that is, he'd be totally justified and in a normal investigation i think he would in a heartbeat but the calculation will be is it worth the distraction, the screaming, the witch hunt cries for his -- for what it gains him in the investigation? it's a close call.

my best guess is he won't do it. >> which only then by that -- by that theory it means the president's tactics are having an impact. >> totally. and the truth may not come out as a result. >> that's the scariest thing of all. harry litman. >> jennifer, please stick around. up ahead, jerome corsi and roger stone, what do these two have to do with wikileaks and what could it mean for the mueller investigation?

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welcome back. there's so much we don't know about robert mueller's special counsel investigation, but lately we've been hearing a lot about and from these two men. right wing conspiracy theorist jerome corsi and former trump campaign advisor, roger stone. a draft court document obtained by nbc news shows stone sought documents from wikileaks and two months before the document dump there was questioning of the information. we don't know whether they were the go between. president trump reportedly told mueller in writing that roger stone did not tell him about wikileaks. are stone and corsi two characters at the heart of a conspiracy with wikileaks or just two conservative activists who happened to stumble into a much larger conspiracy? joining us is anna shek ter wch

is an investigative reporter. anna, the basic first question is this, and i change my mind every day. are jerome corsi and roger stone important to the mueller investigation or not? >> reporter: well, that remains to be seen, but the reality is mueller has spent a ton of time, he's spent months interviewing them, reviewing all of their communications. so, actually, yes, clearly they are important. i think the two main pillars of the investigation they're looking into, the two events, are the wikileaks dump and any collusion related to that, possible collusion related to that, and the trump tower meeting and if there was any collusion there. taking the first one, wikileaks, roger stone is not just a conservative activist who stumbled into this, he was actively trying to find out what julian assange had because he knew that that was going to help the trump campaign tremendously.

he says, look, i'm a political operative and of course i wanted to get my hands on those e-mails. so he was reaching out to people like jerome corsi to see if he would maybe go to the ecuadorian embassy in london where assange lives to go meet with him and find out information or send a third party who's based in london to go and do just that. >> now jerome corsi, there's some descriptions of him as a conspiracy theorist. that's what the mainstream media -- >> which he's very upset about. >> i'm sure he doesn't like that. >> yeah. >> i've seen him identified as a private investigator at times. what is he? >> well, he is a writer who can't help himself but dive into juicy conspiracy theories. he loves to go against the grain and some of them are really quite chilling, like the fact that he maintains that president barack obama was not born in the

united states. he maintained that when i sat down with him yesterday or at least he said, look, i haven't seen the real birth certificate. he doesn't believe the one that obama put out to the public is the actual birth certificate, but when you talk to him at length as i have done, i think he feels hurt in a way by the characterization. it's really interesting. he considers himself a writer and an academic, but he also admits, look, he was trained in pr. he's a political opera tiff and you create naf r narratives, and that's what he does. so -- >> we're not saying he's a conspiracy theorist. the conspiracy theorists are saying he's a conspiracy theorist. >> i remember that line. well done there. sahil, there was an entire weird kabul of activists, the now deceased peter smith, republican consultant in chicago, there was this whole core of sort of -- frankly david baasy was of this

world who were looking for the real clinton scandal, whatever that was at any moment in time, right? it was sort of how there's always been this kabul of folks. corsi has been at the center of it for a long time. >> right. the reason these are important, this gets to the question of potential presidential involvement. these two were at the heart of a conspiracy working with wikileaks to try to obtain the hacked e-mails and the democratic operatives and the clinton campaign and did they convey this to president trump somehow? we know he has a close relationship with donald trump. he's been trying to get him to run for a long time. he took it upon himself to help get trump elected. was that conveyed to president trump if that's the case? this is the framework that the mueller team seems to be working with. for the record, stone says that absolutely did not talk to trump about any of that according to some reports today the president has told mueller in writing that he did not have a conversation with stone about these things. so, you know, there are denials here but this is extremely

important whether there was presidential involvement. >> i'm not buying the denials. when you look at how they have bumbled and stumbled along the way, they were obligated to follow in coming into government. just recently, you know, ivanka trump and the e-mails. oh, i didn't know that i couldn't have a private e-mail server. it is hard to believe that these two gentlemen did not have a conversation with donald trump about any of this simply because of how donald trump operates. he is a need-to-know person. you do not go into a conversation with him without him at some point asking you stuff that you probably shouldn't tell him. >> not only that, he just wants to gossip. >> he wants to gossip. >> even uncorroborated. he's as bad of a gossiper as anybody. >> when the story came out about trump tower, there's zero chance that junior did not run to tell his father about that meeting. trump said apparently if his written answers to mueller that he didn't know about the

meeting. not only is it according to bannon zero chance that he told his father about that. the day it was set up trump at a campaign rally said a week from today i am going to do a list of new horrible things about hillary clinton you don't know. i am going to lay out the full case against her. so, you know, we're like, uh-oh. we're scurrying around, getting ready. it never comes. presumably -- >> the day after the trump tower meeting. >> he said a week later we're going to do that. they didn't get what they were looking for in that initial meeting. that campaign in some ways wasn't well run, but they always had their act together any time a wikileak happened. they were like ready to go every morning with their statement about how they're going to attack us on it. >> anna, is corsi the pats si here? is that mueller's theory, that maybe stone was using corsi, either as a cover story or as a go between or, you know, for plausible deniability? it feels like that's what

mueller is trying to do here, trying to use corsi? did stone use corsi? >> he spent two months investigating that. it's unclear from the plea documents that i've seen that they can absolutely prove without a shadow of a doubt that corsi got information from julian assange, gave it to stone who, you know, in turn gave it to the trump campaign. >> right. >> what they're trying to get corsi to plea to is that he lied to investigators about all those e-mails. now this could have been all bluster, but when you read through them, it is sort of strange that they keep talking about john podesta and they seem to know that it's coming in october. so perhaps there was some chatter. i mean, there was this kabul. there was this group of people who wanted to be cool, they wanted to seem like they knew what julian assange had and they were all kind of boasting about it. and maybe there were some leaks. assange has a small number of

people around him, but it isn't inconceivable that some information could have leaked out. remember in june 12th, 2016, he announced publicly that he had e-mails damaging to hillary clinton. >> right. >> so everybody knew that. it's the details about timing and john podesta's e-mails, that's what mueller's going after. >> all right. anna shek tchecter, you've had couple of interesting weeks with mr. corsi. >> it's been very interesting. >> may you live in interesting times. thank you very much. >> thanks. panel, you're sticking around. up ahead, president trump's political appointees are all the best people, until he appoints them, then he decides they're not. medicare is great, but it doesn't cover everything - only about 80% of your part b medicare costs, which means you may have to pay for the rest. that's where medicare supplement insurance comes in: to help pay for some of what medicare doesn't. learn how an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan,

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welcome back. tonight i'm obsessed with president trump's ability only to hire the best. he's told us all about it. >> the best. >> the best. >> the best in the world. >> better than anybody. >> best of the best. >> everything will be the best. >> the best with the best of them. >> the best. >> so good. >> i'm going to get the best people. >> the best people. >> best people. >> we're going to be the best. we're going to be the best. >> got it? the best. which got us wondering, what does president trump think of the best people he's actually hired? well, let's start with his pick for attorney general, jeff sessions. he said, i don't have an attorney general. it's very sad. then i'm very disappointed in jeff, very disappointed. okay. everyone gets a mulligan. how about the president's best

choice for deputy attorney general? guy named rod rosenstein. i am being investigated for firing the attorney general by the man who told me to fire him. witch hunt. tom resigned over taking some of the best flights. i'm not happy about it. i am going to look at it. i am not happy about it and i let him know it. >> secretary of state rex tillerson, surely the president's exxonmobile's best side eye. don't call me shirley and, no. >> when you look at the iran deal, i think it's terrible. i guess he -- it was okay. >> i guess tillerson was just okay and not the best. was commerce secretary wilbur ross the best? maybe at one time he was. wilbur has lost his step. actually, he's lost a lot of steps. that was the president earlier this year. surely president trump picked the best chairman he could find for the federal reserve, jerome

powell, known as jay. after all, the economy is the best, right? the president, so far, the president said yesterday, i'm not even a little bit happy with my selection of jay, not even a little bit. not even a little bit? to be fair, president trump isn't even halfway through his first term so maybe he'll find something here. the president seems to be upset that the appointees think they work for the country, not for him. we'll be right back. now here we are talking about winning the most jd power iqs and appeal awards. talking about driver-assist technology talking about cars that talk and listen. talking about the highest customer loyalty in the country. but that's enough talking. seriously. that was a lot of talking. back to building

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welcome back. in a bipartisan vote the senate just rebuked the trump administration in its handling of saudi arabia. just hours after top administration officials were on capitol hill defending the u.s. relationship with the saudis and urging them not to end support in yemen, the senate voted to start the process to vote on a measure that would actually do just that. with me now is democratic senator ben carden, member of the foreign relations committee

who was part of the briefing they got today. welcome. >> chuck, good to be with you. >> i want to play with you something from secretary pompeo and mattis today and get you to respond to it. here it is. >> you've seen all the intelligence. do you believe that the crown prince of saudi arabia ordered jamal khashoggi's killing? >> i do believe. i've read every piece of intelligence. i think i've read it all. there is no direct connection. that's all i can say in an unclassified setting. >> we have no smoking gun that the crown prince was involved, not the intelligence community or anyone else. there is no smoking gun. >> well, that was raised in washington professionally in the '90s which meant i had to learn to parse a lot of sentences, senator carden. i noticed two phrases here. secretary pompeo, no direct reporting connecting the crown

prince and secretary mattis, no smoking gun. what do we take away from this? >> well, they're very careful with the use of their words. there is no question in my mind that no operation like this would take place under the direction of the kingdom of saudi arabia without the crown prince knowing about it and being involved in it. and i think that's a pretty clear understanding. this is not a democratic country. the group that carried out this mission under direct supervision of the crown prince, it's hard to believe that this could occur without him being involved. >> did you get a good explanation as to why the cia director wasn't there for your all senators briefing today? >> not in the least. it was bipartisan. both democrats and republicans wanted the cia director to be there. she decided not to attend. i think it was an intentional effort so that the direct question could not be asked about the intelligence community assessment on the accountability. crown prince. >> look, i mean, this may be --

may come across as rhetorical here, but i assume -- do you believe the administration's motive here is to -- is they're worried about losing support in congress for this -- for saudi arabia's war in yemen? >> well, they're losing -- they've already lost support. the vote today was pretty overwhelming. this is a civil war. humanitarian crisis and both sides are involved in this and the united states is not helping with the resolution. the only resolution can be one through diplomacy. we're not going to win this through military participation. so the u.s. military participation, unauthorized by congress, there's now a clear majority in the united states senate against our military involvement. >> well, secretary pompeo was obviously trying to make the case of why the u.s. should stay helping saudi arabia. here's -- i want to read something from his prepared remarks. get you to respond. he said this of saudi arabia. saudi arabia is working to

stabilize iraq's fragile democracy and keep baghdad tethered to western interests not tehran. riyadh has helped manage the flood of refugees fleeing syria's civil war and is establishing closer ties with israel. essentially he was making this case that it's in america's national interests to take sides in saudi arabia's interests in that peninsula. >> american foreign policy is strongest when we embed it in our principles and our values. what has happened under the crown prince in saudi arabia goes outside the bounds of what america stands for. yes, we can have a relationship with the kingdom of saudi arabia, but it's got to be clear that we won't tolerate what happened to the journalist. quite frankly, i think you'll find that saudi arabia will want to continue to do business with the united states. we have the premiere military equipment in the world. we're the most reliable super power in the world by far, no

question about it, so it's in the interests of the saudis to maintain a relationship with the united states. we want to maintain a relationship with the kingdom but we will not tolerate what we saw happen in turkey. >> do you think the united states has the standing to pressure the king to essentially name a different crown prince? >> i think that the united states has the standing to be influential to make it clear that what happened under the crown prince's leadership is unacceptable. it's not just one isolated example, we've seen in the last two years growing taking of power by the crown prince. >> the kidnapping of the lebanese prime minister to me is the most egregious before the killing. >> no question. here's a prime minister of an independent country being kidnapped under the direction of the crown prince. we've seen how he's handled members of the royal family during the transition of power. so there's no question that the crown prince is exercising

ruthless leadership and the united states must make it clear that that's unacceptable. >> what do you say to the criticism that says this is selective outrage. the saudis have been violating human rights for decades. we're outraged now. where has been the outrage for 40 years? >> quite frankly, there's a lot of countries in the world that don't share our values, we understand that, but our foreign policy needs to be wrapped in advancing our principles and quite frankly in our relationship with the kingdom of saudi arabia, there have been times when we've been able to make advancements on human rights issues but quite frankly what we've seen of late, the kingdom is running in the wrong direction. we have to send a clear message to the leadership of saudi arabia that's unacceptable for having a strong relationship with the united states. >> well, the president's going to likely veto this, what you guys do with yemen. what do you do then? >> we understand that. we understand the likelihood of getting this enacted is remote,

but we think it's important congress use the tools we have available to make it clear that the current relationship needs to change. there are bills. there are actions we can take that can affect that relationship. we're always stronger when we work with the administration. we hope the administration understands that the relationship with the kingdom leads to change and he should be working with congress to bring about those changes so that we're all on the same page. >> senator card din, is there any chance we will see a bill that specifically sanctions the crown prince by name? >> as you know, we've already asked for that investigation under the mcknits ski statute. the specific crown prince be investigated so it's now up to the administration to make that investigation and determine whether there is accountability and whether sanctions should be applied. so, yes, i think that is a possibility. >> they're not going to do that investigation, are they, without you forcing it? >> i think they have to do the investigation. whether they take action or not, we'll wait and see. >> right.

>> we're not the executive branch, we're the legislative bran. >> right. >> there's a limit as to what we can do. clearly we believe anyone responsible for this needs to be held accountable. >> senator ben cardin, ranking for some time. i know that's about to change. appreciate you coming on. >> thank you. up ahead, 20/20 vision, it's not just about the white house, people. a wealth of information. a wealth of perspective. ♪ a wealth of opportunities. that's the clarity you get from fidelity wealth management. straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management.

welcome back. tonight in 2020 vision, focusing on the senate. >> thank you for stepping up, mississippi. >> cindy hyde-smith made history last night becoming the first mississippi woman elected to any house of congress. she got elected to the u.s. senate. with last night's win republicans will have a 53-47 seat advantage. >> on election day we made history by expanding our senate gop majority. >> here's your new senate map for 2020. democrats need to pick up at least three seats in order to take control of the senate, four if they do not win the white house. susan collins's seat in maine is one that they're hoping to flip. >> i find it quite extraordinary that certain groups are now targeting me. >> democrats will be eyeing gop held seats in arizona, that's

the mccain seat, colorado, georgia, iowa and north carolina. for republicans, they got at least one big target in sight, alabama democrat doug jones. he'll be up for a full term. >> in order to get anything meaningful, you're going to have to reach across the aisle. >> then republicans will also be eyeing potential pickups in michigan and minnesota. memorize that map. memorize that map. we're going to be talking about it a lot over the next two years and 270 and the electoral college. we'll be back with. the day after chemo might mean a trip back to

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time now for the lid. panel is back. sahil, i have you here. shutdown. within a span of three hours yesterday, the president went from whatever i get for the border money will be fine, i'll figure it out. to maybe shutdown isn't a bad idea. talking to "washington post,"

then politico, in between he had house leaders there so obviously something happened. where are we? >> nobody knows where he's going to be in the final stretch. we've seen him say we're not going to do this then throw a curveball. he waited until the house and senate passed their bills and said maybe i'll vie though afet all. >> which created a 12-hour drama. >> and then he signed the bill. so this is the last best chance to get a border wall funding. in a few weeks democrats take control of the house. he wants $5 billion, the democrats won't give him $5 billion. are there 41 votes in the senate? we're look ing at a shutdown. there's also the question of the mueller protection bill. senator schumer said if whitaker doesn't recuse himself from overseeing this investigation he will demand in the the government funding bill. whether democrats stick to that remains to be seen. >> jen, what would be your advice to schumer and nancy pelosi? you're about to get more

leverage on january 3, how much do you clear the decks? how much of the motivation to clear the decks versus let's not make this easy for him. what's that balance? >> i don't think you want to make it easy for him. they have a -- because they're anxious about what's looming in front of them, i think they have a lot of leverage here and i don't think that -- >> you think trump is aware of that yet? the white house appreciates that leverage? >> i don't think he thinks that deeply but it doesn't mean he doesn't hold cards because he does and both sides have shown they're willing to shut down. hardly anyone barely remembers there was a shutdown last year so it's -- i barely remember it. >> it's funny you were saying that. we were discussing this today at our meeting. are republicans conditioned to this now? >> well, i think they're conditioned in a trump world there's a little chaos everyday so i don't think the threat of it that has power that it once

had. >> and we're not talking about a massive government-wide shutdown, this is specific -- >> nine bills? about half appropriations? insignificant. >> a little here, a little there. >> so we won't be inspecting bananas today? >> exactly. >> that's not a small thing. >> i would look at it this way. in 2000 they said drill baby drill. 2018 shut it down, baby, just shut it down. see what happens, call the bluff. stop playing the game. either you're serious about getting the wall done and it means that much to you, then call the congress's back. >> haven't democrats won? the ask is $5 billion, they haven't asked for $25 billion in ages so this is a case where very quietly democrats and a bunch of republicans i think realize $25 billion is a waste of money on this wall, they've already -- they're already win, right? >> if president trump couldn't get that when his party controlled the house by a big margin and controlled the

senate, it's hard to see how he gets it now. he can get his wall from the democrats but he'll have to give up something. daca and the legal immigration cuts to family sponsorships and green card lottery he's been demanding. democrats won't give the legal yup immigration cuts. and the last bit of dynamic i wanted to point out. nancy pelosi was nominated by the democrats -- >> i was just about to bring that up. transition us. >> she was nominated today as expected by the house democrats to be the party's nominee for speaker on the floor. she had 32 people vote no. 32 democrats voted no. she's going to need half of them to vote yes on january 3 on the floor of the full house or present which would decrease the count. she's holding her progressive flank. she will be in no mood to make concessions with president trump lest she lose people. >> tim ryan got 63 votes against her.

a no vote, which was a free vote, a free vote got 32. it was literally -- you could come up with anybody in your mind you could imagine as speaker, a free vote could only come 32. i think we should stop covering this story. >> master class. it's a master class in consolidating power. >> is it good for the party the same three people are in charge? >> see, i don't look at it that way. being speaker of the house is a job. it's a very specific job that requires certain skills and nancy pelosi is the most qualified person on the planet to have that job and she's damned good at it and she -- >> he's nodding. >> you all know it. >> i went toe to toe with nancy so i know. >> i want her in the room. when somebody is negotiating with donald trump, i want nancy pelosi in the room. >> thank you, i'm running over a bit so i have to whip the good-byes here. we're lighting it up right after the break.

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simple. easy. awesome. stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. this can be a fun time to be around washington because the holiday season is here. it's arrived at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. >> three, two, one -- [ cheers and applause ] merry christmas. thank you. >> the president and the first lady officially flipped the switch on the national christmas tree at the white house, literally a few minutes ago. there you have it. and the holidays about r about

to arrive in new york city. here's a live look at 30 rock where the rockefeller center tree will be growing bright in just a few hours so the prelude, your appetizer, is the white house. the main course is rockefeller center. that's at 8:00 p.m. eastern on your nbc network. that's all we have for tonight, back with more "mpt daily." "the beat" starts right now. bob mueller's information hitting a fever pitch. trump talking about a pardon for manafort. jerome corsi leaking the draft plea deal in statement offense he was offered by mueller and he joins me live tonight. we also later have news on manafort's alleged lies to mueller and how they may backfire. we begin with this breaking news in the russia probe. washington on edge right now over this truly unusual news. convicted felon paul manafort busted for feeding information back to trump