party can escape the fact that the head of the party is now under investigation. >> i don't know about you guys, i'm tired of being divided here in washington. there's one thing all of washington unites around. >> there we go. >> we all are wearing red tonight. let's stay in the fight. go, nats. carol, mike and adrienne, thank you. sorry brew crew. that's all we have tonight. more "meet the press" tomorrow hopefully with the nats still in the playoffs. >> any predictions on the spread? >> dude, i just don't want to see wanderswearo pitching. >> good luck to you and the whole town to be unified for a whole evening. we wish you well. good evening to everyone joining us at home. we are tracking several developing stories in the other big story in this town other than baseball, that is of course the united states congress making real moves towards impeaching donald trump. this includes how two trump

officials are more deeply ensnared in a scandal they're clearly running from, as well as speaker pelosi stressing it involves committee chairs. maxine waters joins me later tonight. i'll also be joined by a documenta documentarian, michael moore live on "the beat" tonight. we'll also cover an important story out of dallas, a police officer found guilty of murder. a rarity in america. we bring that to you as well. as you can hear me explain, we have a lot in the show because there's a lot going on, both in washington around and the country. the top story is president trump's widening ukraine scandal. two of his most senior officials, bill barr and mike pompeo caught up in this impeachment probe. pompeo under fire with reports that he was on the call. congress says that makes him a fact witness to the core question in this probe, did the president abuse his power to get

foreign help with his re-election. pompeo doubling down, stonewalling and telling his staff to defy house democrat demands that they sit for these deposition interviews. the house warning that is not only illegal but may be weighed as evidence of obstruction in the impeachment of there were. late today two state department officials confirmed they will, however, answer congress' questions. meanwhile pompeo is walking away from the questions posed to him in public. >> mr. secretary, do you have any comment on reports you were on the july 25th call with president zelensky? >> if pompeo has an explanation, like arguing that call was misunderstood, he's not sharing it. is this the best explanation they have? if there's nothing to hide, why hide? if the facts exonerate the trump administration, why not march down to congress and provide those facts? pompeo is stonewalling, giuliani is admitting things he's denied

as recently as five minutes before and bill barr's allies are leaking that he's angry and trump is trying to skip over any factual debate and warn of civil war if impeached. he's circling this doctored map with the phrase "try to impeach this." as a legal matter, a president, any president pointing to their electoral victory is irrelevant to impeachment. as a political matter, though, we should note it is pretty odd for a president who got fewer votes than his opponent to invoke his losing margin at a time like. this it's almost like reminding any wavering members of congress, hey, remember i have a historically thin mandate to be in office right now. that's the politics. let's focus on the facts. the inability of the trump message machine to get to the factual defense here, well, this is pretty telling. it includes the spokespersons, the cabinet secretaries and the president himself.

if things are going very poorly and this quickly, we are seeing something that happens when crises hit a different level. people try to clam up and try to wait and see where the bottom is. so before i bring in our experts, i want you to just consider where we are right now this tuesday night. it was exactly one week ago tuesday that senate republicans voted in support of what became a bipartisan inquiry into the whistle-blower allegations, and that was before the complaint or the ukraine call evidence was even released. it was on that same day that speaker pelosi changed her long-standing position of restraint announcing the impeachment inquiry. in the single week since, as we come forward tonight, just one week later, the public now has more incriminating information about trump, pompeo, barr and giuliani. several of those people are facing either new pressure or actual subpoenas and not just from house democrats who honestly look more united on this than anything we've seen since the mid-terms. tonight a top republican senator chuck grassley is backing up the

whistle-blower against donald trump's illegal calls to try to unmask that person's identity. so think. if you work in the trump white house right now, you can't help but notice this one is different. and the stonewalling here is not just another d.c. feud. it's evidence for articles of impeachment, according to congress. diplomats are processing that tonight. the brash tv interviews that are so familiar of so many trump defenders, they're not just another day in the sun. now they're being cited as a basis for a subpoena. giuliani processing that right now as he hires a lawyer. and unlike many trump scandals that seem to evaporate under the weight of complexity or the train wreck or news cycle we all live in, this one is now staying on the washington agenda as long as the house treats it as the basis for what would be only the second impeachment since 1900. and this one is also different because it is simple. the president's core duty is to

push america's interests. think about that as we boil this scandal down to its essence right here. in foreign policy, the president can push another country like ukraine to do things for us, and they, if you want to follow the green arrow, do things for the united states. that's normal foreign policy. in this scandal, which is so simple, the white house's own evidence shows they pushed ukraine not for the united states, they pushed ukraine to do things for trump's re-election, which is forbidden. the president can't use diplomats or the military to help him own re-election any more than he can order government employees to vote for him. this is basic civics. what's normal and okay and what everyone knows is not normal and not okay. you can't press ukraine to get yourself re-elected. it's that simple. that's why this scandal is also looking different and so hard to defend and maybe part of why it's unraveling quickly. if the public absorbs this is trump's approach, and again what

i just showed you on the screen is based on what we got from the white house, which admits they were trying to target biden and get ukraine's help, well, that may not only undercut donald trump's support, it may expose other versions of this alleged abuse. remember attorney general barr is under fire for something i want to be clear is not as damning as the ukraine call but that critics say may follow the same improper goals, pressing other governments to investigate american investigators, from the uk to italy to australia and it's the very thing trump asked for. >> i hope he looks at the uk and i hope he looks at australia and i hope he looks at ukraine. i hope he looks at everything, because there was a hoax that was perpetrated on our country. >> he hopes they look. the reports are that barr did look and giuliani did too and

pompeo and other people who are now facing what if history is any guide is just the very beginning of legal and congressional pressure that could consume a major part of what remains of donald trump's first term. i'm joined now by former federal prosecutor who knows these issues well, joyce vance, who also testified at one of those earlier house hearings and "new york times" columnist michelle goldberg who says trump's claims are not supported, they're lies and the press should treat them as such. good evening to both of you. >> hi. >> hi, ari. >> joyce, could you speak to one of the points we're looking at here one week into this, which is how simple the alleged abuse of power looks? >> it looks very simple at this point, and i think that that's why it's such a turning point. as you say, it has had staying power in the conversation. most of trump's scandals slip very easily into the next bright

shiny object and don't hold our attention. but here we have a relatively simple set of facts. we know that the president reached out for a favor from a foreign country. we see now contributory conduct by the people around him. and congress has its hooks into it and is quickly preceding. we've learned today to get witnesses who will show up and testify, so this feels very different. >> michelle, take a listen to mike pompeo and the way he was recently defending this. >> "the wall street journal" is reporting that president trump pressed the president of ukraine eight times to work with rudy giuliani to investigate joe biden's son. what do you know about those conversations? >> so you just gave me a report about an ic whistle-blower complaint, none of which i've seen. >> was he being 100% truthful? >> i mean i think obviously not. i think it's worth -- corey

lewandowski when he was before the judiciary committee was very blatant about i don't have any duty to be honest with the media, and it is true that lying to a journalist is not the same as lying to, you know, an fbi investigator, it's not the same as lying to congress. but it's worth remembering that pompeo when he was pursuing his vendetta against hillary clinton over the conspiracy theory around benghazi did use things that officials had said on cable television when he was building his case. and so i think that it's fair game here for congressional investigators to assume that when he goes out and lies to the public, it's because he's covering something up. >> covering it up. and, michelle, i'm going to put back up on our screen our very simple guide because i think it goes to the lines here, which is the secretary of state, who is a former member of congress, knows

very well you can't just pressure ukraine to do things for your campaign the way you could for the united states. when you look at what we're calling the not okay line, and that's separate from whether or not it's impeachable or not. that's something the congress and the senate will decide if they go that far. do you think it's different, you've covered so many issues for "the times," that the average american who may not read into the details, that green arrow going toward 2020 is not supposed to be what you're using the military funding and powers of the united states for. >> i think that's true. also there's no question about what was said on this call, right, that's stipulated. they have released at least a partial transcript. there might be more, but there's definitely not less. and i think beyond that, usually liars and fabricators have the advantage of being able to make up a story that is simpler than the truth. with the mueller investigation to be able to follow it and i

think kind of comprehend the scale of trump's treachery you had to follow all sorts of story lines, kind of keep track of all sorts of different russian oligarchs and their role in this and trump and bill barr would say no collusion, no collusion. in this case in order to defend themselves, they are trying to drag people down all sorts of conspiracy theory rabbit holes which their base is probably willing to go down. but i think ordinary people are not going to say -- not going to follow them when they make this argument that really the russian investigation was a hoax and it all originated in ukraine and so donald trump was well within his rights to try to pressure the leader to get to the bottom to find the crowdstrike server. it makes no sense unless you're already completely steeped in the right-wing informational system. >> joyce, i also want to point

out there's a lot of coverage of politics in the trump era that says, okay, where are the republicans? but we have to be really accurate and precise and fair. i think something that is also different about this scandal is seeing the republicans, including in the senate, where you have many members who are not going to be up for re-election before donald trump. they're going to be facing a post 2020 environment if they're up in '22 and '24 who are starting to sound very different than they did on other stories. i want to read more from senator grassley, who i mentioned is on judiciary and knows his way around the legal issues. he said something that was very careful but basically a rebuke to trump. with regard to the whistle-blower this person appears to have followed the whistle-blower protection laws and ought to be heard out and protected. he goes on to say no one should be making judgments or pronouncements without hearing from the whistle-blower first and carefully following up on the facts. i would say the plain english interpretation of that reference to no one is a criticism of the

president of the united states, who has been doing the opposite. >> i think this is an important statement from senator grassley, who's been very involved with the whistle-blower protection act for a long period of time. at the same time, he is on record saying he doesn't see anything wrong with the phone call that the president made from the oval office. but this may be the first indication that we get that people understand that president trump might be in real trouble. we've already seen mitch mcconnell taking the step of committing to holding a trial, although possibly a short one, and taking the sort of steps that he too might need to take to posture himself for a later point in time. so i think this is encouraging. it was distressing to see secretary pompeo, who is, after all, a west point graduate, who took the honor code at the u.s. military academy and gets on national television and quibbles and dissembles in an effort to

cover the truth, that he personally participated in the phone call. it will be good for the country if we can see better from the senators as we move forward. >> i am thrilled to tell you that we're now joined by dan meyer, executive director of the intelligence community's whistle-blower program. he became a whistle-blower himself, filing some complaints which remain classified. he's written a piece, the trump whistle-blower is about to go through hell. dan, knotted beinot being very are you? >> no, no. i have a grimace kind of face. >> i don't even mean your face. you think this person is headed towards hell. that's your view, and yet you also are someone who has really deep experience in advocating for whistle-blowers. number one, do you see what the president is saying in public and the way he's acting as a violation of those protections and laws? >> yes. and it's doubly problematic because he's the chief executive

who's charged with protecting whistle-blowers. normally the whistle-blowers are blowing the whistle on agency activities and cabinet level or lower officials and the president can just make sure that mspb is staffed and that osc is staffed and all the agencies are training as they should. in this case we have a president who should have been hands off. he should have thanked the whistle-blower for being a fine patriot and let the process go the way the process goes as senator grassley has indicated. >> what does it say about our system of government even in this time of strain and what you're promising is hell-like treatment that there are still individuals who can avail themselves of these rules and protections and as of tonight they have not been exposed, even against as what you've described as the president's misconduct? >> well, i think executives within the government are starting to sort of hang together, maybe because they feel they'll hang separately if they don't. i would like to see this

whistle-blower protected by his own agency. remember, the president has very little personnel powers. he can only get this person if somebody colludes with him. so if the heads of the agency where this whistle-blower works stand back and protect the whistle-blower, then it will just be the president tweeting and making comments and the whistle-blower can continue with their career. >> what do you think, michelle? >> well, i want to go back to something that you said about grassley, right? how amazing is it that the fact that a republican senator basically said when it comes to the whistle-blower, we should follow the law. that's really all he's saying. that is literally newsworthy, right? >> and it is, but you're right. >> and so obvious legal your guest knows more than i do about what is in store for this person, although when this all shakes out, if this all shakes out, you know, if america endures, this person is probably going to go down as a hero and

hopefully, you know, pompeo and some of the other characters in this debacle will live out their lives in disgrace, right? we can look at the differing life trajectories of, say, mark felt, although he wasn't publicized until much later or john dean compared to john ehrlicman or some of the other people who never not out from under the watergate investigation. so while it's probably -- i can't conceive of how rough it must be on this person right now. when you literally have the president of the united states calling illegally for your unmasking, suggesting that people around you should be executed, you know, ultimately this person is one of the only kind of heroes that we've seen at this incredibly bleak chapter in american history. >> and that's a fitting coda to rest on for a moment. my thanks to michelle, joyce and dan meyer. we'll have you back given how

central these stories are. fitting in a break because up next i'm joined by maxine waters. a verdict that is leading important conversations around the nation about police accountability. a murder conviction for a police officer. also tonight michael moore live at 30 rock pounding the televisions. this is real footage. real michael moore, can't wait to have him on. i'm ari melber, you're watching "the beat" on msnbc. n msnbc.ide: a way to create energy from household trash. it not only saves about 80% in carbon emissions... it helps reduce landfill waste. that's why bp is partnering with a california company: fulcrum bioenergy. to turn garbage into jet fuel. because we can't let any good ideas go to waste. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing.

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democrats are going full steam ahead with the impeachment probe tonight. subpoenas, warnings that speaker pelosi was dead serious when she made her announcement exactly one week ago tonight. >> today i'm announcing the house of representatives moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry. i'm directing our six committees to proceed with their investigations under that umbrella of impeachment inquiry. >> i'm joined now by congresswoman maxine waters. she chairs one of these committees and has been leading this charge to hold trump accountable. good evening. >> good evening. >> what's changed in the past week, and is the ukraine scandal in your view worse than the other issues facing donald trump or just a collective -- kind of a collective explosion? >> well, the ukraine scandal

certainly, i think, gives us factual information quickly. we know the telephone call was made to the president. now we know basically what was said on the telephone call and we know who was on the telephone call. so i think that this gives us great information to move forward with impeachment. as the speaker has said, should be perhaps the focus of what we do but all of the other things that the six committee chairs have been working with will be discussed. we don't know exactly how many of these issues will be in the impeachment resolution, but we are going to talk about them. but yes, ukraine is going to be a focus. >> congresswoman, i want to ask you about something you said. as we know, you speak your mind. many people like that and many people disagree with you. >> that's right.

>> i want to read something you said today to get a fuller understanding. >> okay. >> you said with regard to donald trump, he's using mob language, he's implying people should be killed for whistle-blowing. impeachment is not good enough for trump. he needs to be imprisoned and placed in solitary confinement, but for now impeachment is the imperative. >> that's right. >> are you speaking literally and do you have any concern you're prejudging the house impeachment and senate trial process by declaring he should be, i guess, convicted and held in solitary? >> no, not really. as you said, i said impeachment is the imperative. i did impress myself in ways to show how terrible i think he is and how he really should be punished. but of course impeachment is what we're focused on right now. >> with regard to allegations of obstruction, one of the things that the facts show this white house has done more extremely than others, including really

the nixon white house, is tried to defy a lot of different lawful requests, from your committee, from others. when we see multiple chairs say this is now going to be itself evidence of obstruction, what does that mean, and do you join the other chairs in that? are you saying if you don't get responses by a certain time, what happens to those white house and agency officials? >> well, i do agree that, you know, this president has instructed those who we have been subpoenaing not to come before our committee, not to cooperate. it is outrageous in what he is doing. and now that we have more information, factual information, for example, that pompeo was on that telephone call, he must respond to the subpoena. he must come forward or he could be charged, i believe, with obstruction of the impeachment. i don't know everything that goes along with that, but i certainly hope that it means we can drag him in or we can arrest him.

>> wow. i want to play for you some of what you said during the last time these issues came up, during the clinton impeachment. take a look. >> yes. >> this is a bunch of baloney. i'm not a lawyer, but i could argue this case in court and win. i think mr. ken starr is the poster boy for all of the mass prosecutors in america. >> obviously many of the facts are different. what do you say to people this time around to argue that donald trump's case, potentially articles of impeachment against him, are different than those against president clinton. >> oh, i think decidedly different. i think that if you take a look at this president, ever since he defined himself during his primary election in the way that he treated his peers, the way that he called names on into the election, the way that he talked about grabbing women by their private parts, what we know about his defense of putin and the fact that he has ignored the

intelligence community in identifying that they certainly was involved in undermining our elections, hacking into the dnc, the way he has insisted on private meetings with our enemy, that is putin, and the way that he's insisted on private meetings with kim jong-un, on and on and on. this president has advocated violence. this president in my estimation was eligible for impeachment long before this and it does not even compare with what was going on with the clinton impeachment, and so i do believe that we now have factual information about him attempting to engage the president of the ukraine in getting dirt on biden. the telephone call was made, the information is there, and this just adds fuel to the fire. >> congresswoman, i want to move beyond washington, d.c., where there's obviously a lot of important news to another story that i know is in a wheel house that you care about and something we cover a lot here

and something that's actually rare. former dallas police officer amber guyger was found guilty of murder. she shot and killed her neighbor. she mistakenly went in his paur apartment and opened fire. it has opened much debate over race and the criminal justice system. you know the case officers are more likely to use force and deadly force against minorities. your reaction to this which viewers will understand is a rarity, a murder conviction for an officer. >> well, this officer certainly didn't have any credibility in her defense. it is unbelievable that she didn't know where her own apartment was, what floor was on. she didn't know that there was a red door mat in front of his apartment. it wasn't in front of hers. to walk into a room and not know that that's not your furniture and shoot and kill an unarmed man, i mean she deserves what has happened and the decision

that has been made. she committed murder. i don't care if she's a police officer. i don't care who would have done something like that, they deserve to be convicted. so i'm pleased she was convicted. she didn't have a good defense at all. >> i wanted to get your reaction -- as you know, it's a big story. chairwoman maxine waters, always appreciate your time. hope you'll come back on "the beat." >> well, i absolutely will. just invite me back and i'm happy to come and join you. >> we'll be watching you and watching your committee. i want to turn now to another big guest. the great michael moore is here on impeaching trump, democratic strategy and some of the other large policy issues when we're back in just 30 seconds. nds.whee nothing gets in the way of doing great work. where an american icon uses the latest hr tools to stay true to the family recipe. where a music studio spends less time on hr and payroll, and more time crafting that perfect sound. where the nation's biggest party store can staff up quickly as soon as it's time for fun.

this is the world of adp. hr, talent, time, benefits and payroll. designed for people. welcome back. washington talking impeachment. the country talking about trump's reaction and what do you do with this kind of president. well, i'm joined now by someone who is really perfect on so many of these issues. the acclaimed filmmaker michael moore. he has been exposing many of the shortcomings of how democracy works. whether it's health care or michael moore in trumpland. that was shot just before the 2016 election. remember, in contrast to many people, including, yes, those of us in the media, michael moore did predict donald trump was going to win. >> on november 8th, the dispossessed will walk into the voting booth, be handed a ballot, close the curtain and

take that lever or felt pen or touch screen and put a big [ bleep ] x in the box by the name of the man who has threatened to upend and overturn the very system that has ruined their lives. donald j. trump. >> i turn now to michael moore. first of all, thanks for coming on "the beat." it's nice to see you. >> it's great to be here, ari. i admire this show and its intelligence. watching that clip, i never wanted to be more wrong than i was then. but i live in michigan. i'm from the midwest. i saw what was happening. i saw that the democratic party was not sending the candidate to places like wisconsin and barely to michigan. it looked bad. >> now the democratic party spent a long time saying wait for mueller. then said we got the mueller

report but we don't know exactly what to do with it. i don't think there was a clear kind of crisp answer. and last week now says to the country basically we're on the road to impeachment, speaker pelosi implying. is that justified on the substance right now and is it right on the politics in your view? >> well, both. yes, the democratic party, we wasted a long time waiting on the mueller report. now the democrats are correctly saying this is not a legal trial. impeachment is not a legal trial. yet we were waiting for the legal system to find or to say that these crimes had taken place, but yet they couldn't do anything about it because there's a memo somewhere that says they can't prosecute. so that was that. and all that time waiting for mueller to save us. you know, i came on here. i was on one of these shows last year and said if you're waiting on mueller to save you, this --

he's not going to save us. we have to save us. i think what's so pro foundifou these last five or six days and why people have responded so overwhelmingly to the democrats and to what pelosi did is that it looks like the democrats have made a decision this week not based on what is politically expedient or what might get them re-elected, because when they -- last week it was still under 50%, the people that wanted even the impeachment investigation. they made the decision to do this based because it was right. and any time the democrats make a decision because it's right to do it, it's morally right to do it, they will find millions of people flocking to the polls to support them because that's the country we live in now. that's the majority of this country. they don't always like who the democrats put up. >> it's striking to hear you say that. by the way, i should say on record thank you for your kind

words. but it's striking to hear you say that because you are about more than politics. but you have a keen eye for politics. part of what you're saying is that the day trading of how things look pales in comparison to the larger vibe of whether people think you're in it for the right reason and you have guts and are fighting for them or not. >> yes. >> and i feel like without -- i don't think you were complimenting trump, but i think you referred to his ability to make people think that. i want to play more from "moore in trumpland" to talk about his ability to appear to connect with people. let's take a look at that. >> whether trump means it or not is kinds of irrelevant because he's saying the things to people who are hurting. that's why every beaten down nameless forgotten working stiff who used to be part of what was called the middle class loves trump. he is the human molotov cocktail that they have been waiting for.

>> and, and bernie in 2016 represented that, that same sense of he's an outsider, he's going to stop the madness, what working people are going through. that's why bernie won michigan. bernie won wisconsin. why the candidate would not go to the two states that she didn't win, that would be the first place i'd go. if you can't win amongst your own people, how are you going to win michigan and wisconsin if you don't even show up? >> let me ask you a question as a communicator. you're a writer and a communicator. how is joe biden doing in dealing with the last ten days, which are but a tiny preview of what any nominee will face against this president. >> do you want the honest answer? >> hold on, let me think about it. >> we are live. >> that's a fair point. you know what, yeah, give me the honest answer. chairwoman maxine waters washon

>> but your lawyers have left for the day. >> this is live. >> there is no tape delay. i'm not going to do a full de niro on you here, but i am -- now they're really worried in the booth. god bless robert de niro. no, honestly, what i think is, is that -- now i've completely forgot your question. >> joe biden. >> biden. see, i don't even want to say it out loud -- >> but you had a warning in 2016. what do you think about joe biden? >> you know, joe biden is the center. joe biden is this year's hillary. joe biden is not going to excite the base to get out there and vote on november 3rd, 2020. 70% of the people voting next year are either women, people of color or young people between the ages of 18 and 35. that's 70%. who is going to excite women and african-americans and hispanic

people? biden -- but your question was what about biden in this last week and why does he seem to be -- he's there and he's not there. he needs to be more there. the things that he said publicly are very strong. but it looks like he's not really wanting to deal with it. it appears, if i could just now speak from michigan, it appears that he doesn't want -- he's afraid to be out there, that there's some piece of this that he doesn't want to deal with in terms of his son and the gas company and all that. and it's okay. it's been proven that nobody did anything wrong. if he's embarrassed that the kid of a politician got some help, well, i don't think anybody sitting there at home right now with their tv dinner going what? joe biden's son got a good job out of this? i think we sort of understand -- >> you think this, as you say,

baseless attack by trump has still worked in a way on joe biden? >> it's worked a little bit in the sense that it's kept him from being fighting joe. it's odd -- and this is trump's evil genius through these years. he really is able to manipulate the situation. he controls the news cycle. >> yeah. >> he -- and to -- and then he turns fighting joe into what he calls him, i'm not going to repeat it. >> i tell you what. in fairness to joe and everyone, we'll take a quick -- we'll fit in a break and keep you, but let's take a look at how joe biden has been sounding real quick. here's joe biden. >> wait, wait, wait a second, wait a second. not one single credible outlet has given any credibility to his assertion. not one single one. and so i have no comment except the president needs to start being president. >> i want to get your view of that, of the speak pelosi strategy and also a little on

gun control. i'm going to fit in a break. more michael moore right here. he said it himself he's live. will he go de niro next block? only time will tell. we'll be right back. only time will tell. we'll be right back. wednesdays. at outback, they're for steak and beer. walkabout wednesdays are back! get a sirloin or chicken on the barbie, fries, and a draft beer or coca-cola - all for just $10.99. hurry in! wednesdays are for outback. outback steakhouse. aussie rules. stop dancing around the pain for outback. that keeps you up again, and again.

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welcome back. you're watching "the beat" with ari melber and i'm joined by filmmaker and author michael moore. before the break we showed a little biden and you were reacting. >> yes. again, he said the right thing but he's got to come out fighting. this is -- you don't want a dukakis moment here when they attack your family and you're trying to be all kumbaya about this. you've got to put the gloves on and go after him. biden should be out there every single day. don't be it's okay, your son got a good job. some day ari's son will be working here at nbc i'm sure if he wants to. >> i don't know, but okay. >> hopefully there are nepotism

rules here. i'm certain of that. no, i'm just saying, though, that we need all the candidates right now need to be unified and coming at this full force. no backing down and no trying to placate the other and none of this we have to wait and see. wait and see what. i just saw you shoot somebody. i saw somebody steal the steady cam over there. i don't need to wait, i saw it. everybody saw and heard trump. he admitted it, he confessed. now he's been trying to walk it back in all these crazy ways. >> and a lot of this goes to the reverse psychology of the trump era. there's a lot of trolling, there's a lot of attacking, there's a lot of lying and a lot of bullying. donald trump has not just convinced his folks of things, right, he's also appeared to convince people in washington, in the democratic establishment, that somehow impeachment is something he welcomes and would be good for him. now that they have gotten close to it, two things are happening. one, he and his folks appear to

be on the run fighting for impeachment, which seems to reveal that was all a lie. and two, something you mentioned before the break, the polling shows an increase, and this is just in days. we haven't even had the house vote or what it might look like in the senate. but the polling shows right here from september to today a shift. my question to you as someone who deals with this, do you think that shift would continue if democrats are on offense. >> you've been around the news business to know that shift right now that you've got on the screen, that's stunning in a week for americans to go -- because really most americans didn't want this to be the result. most americans don't want this kind of conflict. i may wanti it but most people are like, please, i've got to get on with my life and my work and my job and my kids and homework. i'll vote next year and then we'll get rid of him. that shift, that shift and that other poll i saw on "morning joe" this morning of not only do so many americans now, so many millions want the committee to

investigate, the higher number is for impeach and remove when that question is asked. it's amazing. and the democrats, god, i hope they -- yes, trump is on the run. they need to chase him down. they should not pull back now. they have got to -- you know, it's like the democrats to me have been like they can't figure -- like the french during world war ii. you're either the government where you're going to go along to get along and the nazis are happy with the job you're doing so they leave you alone. or you're in the french resistance and the democrats need to be in the french resistance right now. save our democracy. this is very dangerous. >> well -- >> let me just say why. >> briefly. i want to ask you about guns too. >> it's dangerous because this particular crime that we have witnessed is -- he was trying to affect the election next year. >> right. >> there is no greater sin other

than actually attacking our country, a foreign attack, no greater sin than trying to attack our elections. when our own person is doing it, not the russians but an american named donald j. trump, how can anyone stand for this? this is -- this must -- they must act and act quickly. we are in a dangerous situation. his tweet storms, i don't know, there were 23 in 23 minutes, is that right? >> yeah. >> there was something like -- >> and he's talking in a way that you want to take him literally or not, you have a sitting president talking about arresting members of congress. >> i don't know. >> civil war. what you raised is serious. you made me make a promise to you. i want to let the viewers in since your theme has been honesty. you wanted to do something before we left and we're almost out of time. >> well, on a happier note, today is the 50th anniversary of the beatles releasing "abbey road" here in the united states.

and you have to understand the context. it's six weeks after woodstock and it's only 15 days in 1969 before the great moratorium march against the war in vietnam that a month later had half a million, the largest march in the history of the united states, all around the release of this album. i wanted to put it in a political historical context of that time we were living in. we're living in our own conundrum right now. we are in a dangerous situation and i just wanted to reminding you as i leave the air here, ari, that the love you take is equal to -- >> the love you give. >> the love you make. >> you see, you see, you see the limits. >> apologies to john lennon, wherever you are. >> this would have been -- this would have been a great moment except i screwed it up.

but you were great. >> no, it's live tv. and here's the good news, we both shaved for each other today, so it isn't all bad. >> can i try another one? >> yes. >> all right. everyone ready? i am the walrus. i am the walrus. coo coo cachoo. michael moore, thank you for coming. we'll be right back. hank you for coming we'll be right back. and home to three bp wind farms. in the off-chance the wind ever stops blowing here... the lights can keep on shining. thanks to our natural gas. a smart partner to renewable energy. it's always ready when needed. or... not. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing. new crest gum and sensitivity. ahh brain freeze! no, it's my teeth.

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to some other news, president obama made waves by designating his official portrait be painted by a pioneer artist. and now that artist is making way for this public installation in times square. it's a political sculpture of a black man on a horse. and it will be installed in richmond, virginia, after its debut right there in new york. it's an artistic reckoning for this trump era as statues have sparked so many racial debates. and i discussed this with a music artist and working with alicia keys to back diversity in the often cloistered art world. >> it's something different to say -- as a matter of fact let me see if he's around for dinner tonight. it's important for us to own the culture or pieces of the culture

and change that whole concept of making it and we don't have a trace of it left around where we can pull from which is the reason why we collect -- we collect like we're building a museum because we want to save most of these pieces so the next jenrisi generati generation or the youth can have something to pull from or go back to in history. >> he's clearly passionate about civil rights art and ownership and explains that along with discussing his work with jay-z, beyonce and some major stories about the rapper dmx. you can get it right now msnbc.com/mavericks. the full interview is up now on msnbc.com/mavericks. ow on msnbc.com/mavericks. when you have pain...

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tonight. we had a wild one. i hope you join me again at 6:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow. and up next it is "hardball" with chris matthews. the whistleblower versus the tweeter. let's play hardball. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. for ten days now running in fact this president has attacked and attacked the whistleblower who dared tell the american people what trump was up to in trading u.s. national security for something he could use against his political rivals. it is all about trump trying to hide his wrongdoing now by making this about how he was caught in the wrongdoing. unable to justify his betrayal trump's attacking the messenger of course. like a boss in the rackets he call