it's been 47 days since the first transmission of covid-19 in america. has staying at home actually flattened the curve? 100,000 people have now died from coronavirus worldwide, and the infection hasn't eat hit its most vulnerable nations.

and 10% of the american workforce is now unemployed. experts say that number could double or even triple. "velshi" starts now. good morning. it is sunday, april the 12th. happy easter. i'm ali velshi. the united states has reached a grim milestone. more americans have now died of covid-19 than in any other country. nearly 20,500 americans have now died from the disease, and more than half a million are infected. 44 days after president trump called the situation a democratic hoax that was under control. all 50 states are now under major disaster declarations for covid-19 as is the direct of columbia and four u.s. territories. more than half of all u.s. deaths are in three states, michigan, new jersey and new york. with new york itself having more confirmed cases on its own than any other country.

783 more new yorkers died of covid-19 in the last 24 hours, bringing the total to over 8,600. governor andrew cuomo said new york's daily death toll appears to have leveled out, however it's done so at a very high level. >> you can see that the numbers somewhat are stabilizing but it's stabling at a horrific rate. 783, 777, 799, these are just incredible numbers depicting incredible loss and pain. >> in an effort to help shed line on what frontline workers are facing and helping them cope with the unbelievable trauma of the job, the fire department of new york has released interview video with some of the emts.

>> you have some of the best paramedics in the world to come out and help you when there's a worldwide pandemic on. everybody is scared. but it's really been humbling to see our diligent people working to not only take care of these people medically but emotionally as well. people are scared. people are sick. she are very sick. no matter what happens, we're only a phone call away. that's probably the best care that we can. >> joining me now to kick off this morning, msnbc's corey coffee. she's reporting live from new york's javits center. for those of you don't know is an enormous center, and exposition space. you're joining us from somewhere

we're not familiar with in new york, flushing park and meadows center. and now you're at a place that takes up several city blocks on the west side of manhattan. >> and now this has become a normal sight, ali. this one by far the largest, 2,500-bed capacity. as we know, about 250 patients are now being treated here at this facility. of course, we have the attendance center, one of the most recent opened that we reported yesterday. and this coming week, another one at northern manhattan on columbia university baker field athletic complex. that will house in 200 beds. the work just continues. also governor cuomo said if these numbers are leveling off the way they look like they are, it appears that the city of new york and hopefully the state of new york as well, has enough hospital beds. so now what he wants to focus on

is testing. so the governor also just announced a ramp-up of testing. five new testing sites, two of which are drive-through testing sites. one in brooklyn opened up on friday, and then another testing site in queens, which will be a drive-through one. that will open up on monday. there will be three other testing sites that will be walk-in appointment only. those will be in minority-heavy communities because this virus specifically hit minority communities especially hard, ali. once we get past the testing phase and the governor said once he's able to reopen the state in a slow roll-out sort of way in the weeks and months to come, he said it's going to be very important there's economic help at that point and he's now calling on the federal government to repeal the cap on state and local taxes. that law known as s.a.l.t., ali. >> cori, thank you for your reporting. it's quite the scene there.

you can't get a flavor of how big jacob javits is. it's literally several blocks deep and wide on the west side. we've never seen in new york, even at 9/11, a field hospital of this size. you'd have to go back to the civil war to experience these type of hospitals. in addition to the economic h d hardship facing the 17 million americans we know are out of work, there may be many more, state budgets exploded as the states battle the pandemic. maryland governor larry hogan and new york governor andrew cuomo, the chairman of the governors association and top democratic governor respectively, issued a joint statement calling on congress to approve $500 billion in direct aid to states. president trump said on friday his administration is getting few calls from governors. they're all in great shape. for the second day in a row, president trump has no public events on his schedule today. there's no coronavirus task

force briefing scheduled for today. joining me now is an infectious disease physician and associate professor at the boston university school of medicine and medical director of a pathogens unit. sheila lockhart joins me as well, the author of "black edge: inside dirty money and quest to bring down one of the most wanted man on wall street." her latest piece in "new yorker" is how a private equity firm squeezes patients for profits. thank you booth for joining us this morning. doctor, as we're starting to look at the other side of this thing and we have not peaked in much of america, maybe even new york, as we look to the side of this, we start to think about antibodies. those of us who have had this sickness and whether or not we're developing immunity. but you say it's not a given if you're exposed you develop

antibodies and if you do, whether or not you're actually immune? >> that's right, ali. it's quite complicated actually. we think from prior experience at sars and mers the majority of the people who get covid-19 will develop enough neutralizing antibodies. those are the types of antibodies that directly attach to the elements of the virus that are causing it to be able to enter the cell or continue its activity. the part is not just neutralizing antibodies but another side of immunity is t-cells or white blood cells that help bring the control of the viral under good levels. so the first element -- first part of business is there might be a subset of the population that might, first of all, may not mount enough of an antibody response. even if they do, their immunity is actually decided by all of these other elements. so having a positive test result for the most part would tell us you are immune but in a subset

of the population, we may need to follow those people who may not mount the immunity a big longer and closely. and we need more science to discover what effective immunity against covid-19 means. >> sheila, i'm canadian. you don't really have to worry about this in canada. you don't have open enrollment or study options. the one thing that's more come florida i.t. kaed than open enrollment for those of us who have insurance through employers, is knowing how the hospital bills you, what the bills mean? why you pay so much versus somebody else paying so much? that's a complication that's brand new to a whole lot of americans who are thinking about seeking testing other seeking treatment for covid-19. >> one thing this pandemic has really exposed is the fact the health care industry in the u.s. is a profit-making private corporate-run industry.

it is built to deliver profits to corporate executives. it is not built to deliver a widespread health care to people, particularly in the midst of a crisis. for example, a company that is seeking to maximize its profits does not have an interest in curing diseases and conditions quickly. the longer the treatment takes, the more complicated it is, the more profit will flow up the corporation. that's true for medication for supplies scarcity leads to an increase in prices. all of that is kind of playing out right now where we're seeing that our system is simply not created to deal with the widespread public health crisis like this. it is constructive, a series of large health care conglomerates that have been enormously profitable and we're having a conflict between health care of americans and financial

profitability of these corporations. we're sort of at their mercy. >> doctor, how does that affect treatment? we have 0 sort of two stories going on. we have public hospitals in american that say they're completely overtaxed, they're short of resources. we've got the governor of new york, governor of michigan calls for health care workers to come in. we talk about shortages of gowns, masks, ventilators. we also have very, very profitable private hospital systems in the country but everybody's feeling the pressure right now. how do we -- how do americans know in the time that they most believe that they are en masse going to be needing medical care, that that medical care, the resources behind that medical care in the richest country of the world, are available? >> thanks. i want to underscore the fact you said every hospital right now is suffering. i think if you look across boston, we talk about the fact in peacetime there's a joke if you throw a stone, you will hit

a hospital in boston. even currently most hospitals in boston are seeing an increase the number of patients coming in. we want that. we want people who need the care to come in. the big part of it, sheelah, i read your article and someone who's been on the patient side of it and has faced surprise billing, part of the issue is actually just the fact there isn't transparency. having these things sort of up front so patients can realize their providers may be sort of have different relationships with their insurance. the thing that gives me a little heart, ali, the c.a.r.e.s. bill and some of the bills that are lined up are going to provide both coverage for testings and treatment for covid-19, for those who are within employee shelf assured, medicare or medicaid plan. the problem is what is covid-19 treatment? what does that mean? a person admitted with covid-19 may have an immensely long course. they may need mechanical

ventilation. to recover, they may need a long-term facility or longtime engagement with a primary care physician. the devil is in the details. to really put people at ease about the fact that they can sort of go out and be comfortable they will get the care and not be stuck with a big bill, we need to make those details more transparent. >> yes, that trarnz parnsy, again, coming from a system outside of here as a guy who has a good understanding of numbers and finances, navigating your way around medical costs in this country itself is crippling, let alone the cost. thanks to both of you for the great work you're doing. a staff writer at "the new yorker" and "black edge" is her new book. do take a look at the new article called how private equity firms squeeze hospital patients for profit.

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nurse to know you're that person's everything and sometimes in their last moments, the weight of trying to fill the shoes of the people who can't be there is really heavy. >> there's a certain kind of pain that never goes away. a pain that is never forgotten when you lose a loved one. it's the ache that you feel in your heart knowing they will no longer be able to hold your hand or tell you they love you or call you on a sunday just to see

what you're doing. so while we know death is inevitable, thousands of families are now learning to deal with a very different type of pain, the pain of knowing their loved ones died alone. the pain of not getting to say good-bye without a funeral service. one new york doctor says you should have the tough conversations with at-risk loved ones about their potential care during a pandemic, because, quote, how can anybody make such definitive decisions of their loved one dyeing alone? joining us is an emergency room doctor here in new york city. dr. katib, thank you for joining me. one of the things you said is how can i, who has known the patient for all of ten minutes, begin to understand what that patient would actually want in their last minutes or whether they want you to continue to try to keep them alive or for how long or whether they want to see their family?

your whole argument is families need to have this discussion. do you mean families who don't have somebody who's ill? who don't have somebody who needs to be going to a hospital? we should all have somebody who should be having this conversation? >> yeah, i think it's important for everybody to have this conversation. we've seen with the coronavirus it's unpredictable. we don't know who it will affect. we've seen it affect people of all ages. obviously there are risk factors that portend for prognosis. individuals who are older or other medical conditions, these are people who are likely to become more sick around the coronavirus. despite that this is something relatively new and unpredictable so everybody should be having these conversations. >> you talk about a culture in medicine, i think maybe just in our culture generally, about doing everything possible to keep someone alive rather than considering their quality of life. and something that you make clear is that cpr, intubation,

the use of a ventilator, these are not harmless procedures. >> yeah, exactly. the idea behind having these end-of-life conversations is never to dissuade anyone from doing something. that's not our intention. these are conversations we need to have to ensure we're making decisions to reflect what the patient would want. i was actually just speaking with a friend of mine, someone who's not in health care, who is asking me why wouldn't you want everything done? in what situation would you want an even 10% less of a chance of survival? i think that's a good question. and i think people in health care who may not see some of the interventions we do to keep them alive, maybe they don't have the best idea we entail. cpr and intubations we see on tv is not depicted in reality. you don't just push on someone's chest a few times, deliver a

jolt of electricity and have them wake up and go back to normal. the reality is they are morbid procedures. 75% of not discharged. intubation means you're sedated for weeks, intubation while in the care unit. these are not benign interventions and these may not be right for everybody. as you mentioned, most hospitals are not currently allowing visitors. so in the case of patients who are more likely to get sick, it might be worth considering if spending the end of their life at home will be more comfortable and humane rather than alone in a hospital. >> that's a conversation, things like home hospice or spending those last days alone, it's a conversation some people who have family members with terminal diseases sometimes have. but this feels more like an

emergency, and it is less likely in that sort of situation when suddenly somebody starts to have difficulty breathing and you call 911 and they come to take you to the hospital. you haven't had that sort 6 runway to think about the inevitable passing of that person. maybe that person hasn't had that runway. the people who are dyeing sometimes have underlying diseases like diabetes or like heart disease that don't portend immediate death. >> right. and that is sort of the difficulty with this whole situation, is that ideally these are conversations we would have had well in advance with a primary care doctor. these are doctors who in most cases have known their patrioie for many years. they know not only their medical values but who this person is, what they want at end of life, maybe what this person wants in these conversations. as you mentioned, we don't these

patients and family that well. we will make sure we inform them of potential outcomes, risks, benefits and what intervention in detail but this is something people should have had well before becoming sick and needing an er visit. >> you're right, doctor. but i wonder if some of us will at the end of the show let's talk about how we will deal with death and when it comes and dnrs and things like that. i appreciate you making the point. it would be a lot easier to have that conversation ahead of time than by having it by a facetime when somebody is in the hospital. you should read this book by the emergency room city doctor. thank you, sir. a moment now to honor one of the lives we lost to coronavirus. 56-year-old alvin charles elton was passionate about chicago's sports. he followed blackhawks, bears, cubs and bulls. he played basketball and

basketball in recreational leagues. he played basketball as well. he was a longtime member of the windy city darters. alvin's teammates knew him as ace, a man who spent 300 days of the year in hawaiian shirts and shorts, even though he lived in chicago. fellow dart player lori decker recalls alvin's friendliness writing, quote, he always had a special way to make you feel included. alvin was a proud descentant of two sioux tribes from south dakota. he grew up with his sister and gavin in south evanston, illinois. like his father before him, alvin worked as a pipe fitter. he met his wife gretchen at a darts match in 2001. their first date was at a cubs game. gretchen appreciated how his love of music and world war ii history opened up her world. he also turned her into a hockey fan. gretchen said what she will miss the most is alvin's enthusiasm. quote, he was just such a happy

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with the u.s. economy all but shut down, talks on capitol hill to add $250 billion in funding to last month's $2 trillion relief bill came to a grinding halt saturday. gop leaders say they're willing to negotiate with democrats over small business lending. yet democrats are holding out hone the new week will offer hope for a broader deal that includes additional funding for hospitals, states and underrepresented. this stalemate comes as unemployment continues to rise to historic levels. last week there were another 6.6 million first-time unemployment filers, on top of previous numbers and the last three weeks before. over the last three weeks

combined, over 17 million americans have filed for unemployment benefits. joining us now, william rogers, professor at rutgers university and former labor department chief economist. karen mills is former head of the small business administration and author of "fintech, small business and the american dream." and a professional of journalism at columbia university, staff writer at "new yorker" and msnbc political analyst. thank you all three for joining us. bill, let me start with you. we have seen 17 million americans file for unemployment. the last two weeks have been around 6.6 million, which may mean 6.6 million people were there to file for unemployment, and that may mean that's the capacity we can handle. there may be we're backlogged and we continue to see those numbers. you're guess we could get as high as 18% to 20%. >> yes, good morning and happy

easter to you and your viewers and happy spring. >> thank you. >> i updated my estimates based upon this historical relationship between ui claims and unemployment rate. i'm at somewhere around 18%. one of the caveats of mine is my estimates, they don't take into account people who are stopping or saying they've stopped searching for a job meaning we've shot the economy down. so i'm on probably the higher side but you have jim bullward at the st. louis fed, for the second quarter they're up 30%. we're still in unchartered waters. these numbers compared to the great recession make them look pedestrian. going forward, i think there's the backlog around individuals who are freelancers or 1099 workers. i think the system is still trying to figure out how to integrate them. it's a week-by-week observation

following what's happening and monitoring the situation. >> i just want to ask mike to put up on the screen your estimate about 18.3%. it's a little higher than some of the wall street estimates but lower, as you said, than the st. louis fed that is talking about 32%. we had 10% during the great recession, about 9.35% before coronavirus started, 3.4% before. and the great depression we were at 24%. these are remarkable numbers, karen. i just want to talk about the fact we're not seeing similar numbers in europe. "the washington post" has an article entitled "how europe manages to keep a lid on coronavirus unemployment while it spikes in the u.s.." in germany, for instance, 650,000 employers notified employment agencies by last week of their intention to make use of the country's short-term work program. under the system, employees have their hours scaled back and the government pays them up to

two-thirds of their normal salary while the employer pays little or nothing. once the employer is ready to pay full wages again, everything returns to normal and there are no layoffs. there's similar programs in place in denmark, where people are staying home and still getting paid by a government system. we have much more complicated systems here in the united states. we are trying this effort through the small business loans and through the grants of the airlines to keep people on payroll and yet still being paid through taxpayer money but we're not really there yet. >> you're exactly right, that these unemployment numbers are staggering. but it is actually pretty predictable. half of the people who work in this country own or work for a small business. so that's half the jobs. so this could actually go much bigger. the reason you're seeing unemployment spike here is small businesses have on average, you know, a month's worth of cash, 27 days. now we're three, four weeks in

and they've had to lay off all of their people because the government assistance program, as you mentioned, is going to take tomb to work through the system. now, the good news about these government programs, there are two of them. there's disaster loans from the sba and something called ppes, paycheck protection program. and that works through banks. the good news in america we have this great banking system we're using. the bad news is it takes a while and very bumpy start for that money to get through. one thing i will note, i'm a little bit more optimistic this week because a lot of money started flowing at the end of last week. we've put out about $200 billion in approvals. the money hasn't gotten into the hands of the small business owners yet and that's a worry. the other worry is that the smallest and most vulnerable businesses are probably not at the front of this line because it's been taking them longer and

the first banks up, the jpmorgans and bank of america, they probably have their bigger clients in line first. but there is a piece of good news. i think there's a game-changer with fintech coming out this week, square and paypal just got approved and intuit. and i think they're going to be able to sweep up a lot of these very small vulnerable businesses. >> businesses have 27 days on average, karen says, of cash. regular folks, we've been saying for years, those of us in personal finance, you have six months to a year but that's just not true. the government shutdown told us a lot of people don't have a month at their disposal. these are government workers, by the way. not the least among us. we have a whole lot of gig workers. we have a whole lot of people in america who don't know if they qualify for the $1,200 check because they're part time, in contract, and this crisis is

laying that bare. >> absolutely. one of the things i think has happened is we allowed ourselves to cannibalize the labor force in particular ways and it's all been kind of under the idea of the mantra of the job creators, job creators, and we weren't really talking about what was good for job creators, not necessarily being good for the people who actually hold those jobs. so now if we think about kind of classically the way that we thought about these things and you mentioned 40s and you mentioned 50s, we have an idea of the people who did everyday work. the labors are really good at that. bus driver, the transit worker, the food delivery person, the grocer. and as we have kind of moved away from that, what the pandemic has done is tripped away any kind of pretense we had about who actually keeps the society running. >> yes. >> we ultimately think about

police officers and firefighters, people who are called upon as some kind of greater social calling to lift their lives before anybody else, you don't think about your bus driver's life or grocer or person's who may or may not be documented who's risking his or her life to come across the city to dliv irfood because it's too dangerous to go to the grocery store. i think what we're looking at is a product in the way which we had policies for decades now, that eviscerated the working class people. >> i think the interesting thing, jehani, it maybe this is forcing us to have this discussion again. when i look at my window in manhattan, i certainly see a lot of emts and i see a lot of police and firefighters and doctors and nurses that i'm immensely grateful for the lives they serve. but i'm seeing people deliver food to people, fresh direct, grocery deliveries, sanitation workers, transit workers.

i'm seeing all of these sorts of people and i'm realizing life wouldn't go on without them. they are our essential workers and maybe we should start looking at human work as something more than their hourly wage but the real value they give us. maybe things are changing a little bit or maybe we need to take this opportunity to change. most thank you to the three of you. >> ali -- >> go ahead. >> i would love to jump in. in new jersey, i have been involved with the unitedway of north new jersey over the last number of years and to address your very point and john's point we created a construct we called a.l.i.c.e., asset limited income constrained employee. these are actually the families, the share of them by the federal government's definition in poverty but many have incomes up to $40,000 to $70,000 and these are incomes that just barely allow them to cover their expenses in their community. in new jersey, that's about 35%

to 40% of our households. so we've been using this work to really shine a light on this issue that all work is valued as my former boss would always repeat and talk about. and this pandemic has really brought that to bear again. the final point i want to make too around small business pieces, we will have another conversation around how minority and women, in this case small businesses, are disadvantaged and they're going to have difficulty getting access to the loans. and this is even -- because this is even a bigger issue for them because as karen said, these companies, the amount of resources and backstopping that they have is even smaller than the typical company. so it's just going to be another example how systemic racial and gender inequality in our society are making things much more difficult. and it's not now just these

communities, all of america. if we have a portion of america having difficulty now since we're much more tied together, it's all very concerning. >> that is the conversation we need to keep having. i appreciate you -- sorry, go ahead, karen. >> it's exactly right. one of the positive things that's about to happen is that some of these sole pro pro pieterships, people without employees who are at very small risks are going to get very good news this week. square and paypal and quickbooks are going to come out with a solution that will be easy to use. i see a bit of bright light. this could be a game-changer for our most underserved women and minority-owned businesses. couldn't come fast enough. >> thank you to the three of you. bill rodgers, professor at rutgers university, karen mills, former head of the small business association, and author

of "fintech, businesses and the american dream." we have breaking news out of the united kingdom. boris johnson has been released from hospital. this is a new development. his spokes people say on the advice of his medical team, he will not immediately be returning to work but he has been discharged from hospital to continue his recovery from his home. boris johnson, the prime minister of the united kingdom, who was taken to hospital and then moved into the intensive care unit because of symptoms of covid-19. back here in the united states, millions of americans are out of work. the bills do not stop coming in just because of the pandemic. so, hey big banks, remember the 2008 bailout? time to pay it forward. give me your hand! i can save you... lots of money with liberty mutual! we customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need!

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or cuts in their hours. and that has gotten them deeply concerned about paying mortgages, rent, utilities and bills, let alone emergencies that pop up even in good times. that's not all. according to a survey by wallet hub, 67 million people are worried about paying credit card bills that are racking up this crisis. some have agreed to waive payments on more, auto loans and waive interest and take other measures. many of the big banks put disaster efforts in place including not reporting late payments to credit bureaus. and that's good. what they should do in these unprecedented time. but for many customers this isn't automatic. you have to call, wait on hold, talk to someone. these things are tough to do on a normal day, and these days are not normal. americans are rightfully worried about their health, their jobs, their families. banks and credit reporting agencies need to take a

uniformed and generous approach to their customers in this time of need. banks and credit card customers are taxpayers. the same taxpayers that bailed out the banks back in 2008 and it's time for payback. we need the banks, credit card companies and credit-reporting agencies to come one a unified plan to suspend mortgage collection, suspend foreclosures, suspend evictions from anyone laid off, suspend all late fees and penalties, remove minimum payments and suspend interest and reporting to the credit agencies. we need full participation in the emergency loan programs for individuals and small businesses and we need to stop dinging the scores of people applying for loans at a time when they need their hard-earned credit scores the most. in this time of crisis, we need a plan for assistance that is clear and understandable so we don't wake up in 30 or 60 or 90 days with new fees, high interest and skyrocketing bills. we need a simple set of rules for everyone, led by those same

banks that took taxpayer money in 2008. and maybe that credit reporting company that lost everyone's data a couple of years ago. i'm looking at you, equifax. how about you don't take a single point off of anyone's credit score just because they're looking for a loan in desperate times? millions of americans who never thought they would be unemployed are now applying for government assistance. people who thought they were healthy are getting seriously ill and racking up medical bills. parents have become teachers, babysitters and caretakers overnight. for all of us to come out of this feeling a little less pain and a little less anxiety, it's critical our financial institutions and our policymakers come up with a unified, simplified solution that leaves us with our dignity, our sanity and a little more financially whole. ♪

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solemn day on the christian calendar. but this year many worshippers are being forced to celebrate in isolation. pope francis offered his traditional easter mass via live stream. joining me is a hospital chaplain in seattle. she's been on the front lines in the battle against covid-19 helping patients and family members deal with the heartbreak of this daily disease. we have been talking about the difficulties that families are facing during covid-19, the difficulty of being alone and then those who have to die alone. then we have days like this. this is easter, this is passover. there are people who are without their families. for some people, these are the most important times of the year when they come together with their families. how are you seeing them deal with this?

>> hi ali. thank you for having me. i am seeing families grieve not only that their loved ones are in the hospital but that they cannot be together with them during this holy week. it is not a time that we are used to celebrating alone. easter is supposed to be a celebration of resurrection. it's something you do with food, it's something you do with family. it's really sad for people to be apart from their loved one today especially when their loved ones are ill in the hospital. you had a particular story of a family who lives in seattle but the father had come from guatemala. tell us about that. >> there's a family i'm working with now. the father was visiting from guatemala and contracted covid-19 while he was here. he's not going to be able to make it home to celebrate easter in his village in guatemala where he's typically very involved in his church.

he's an artist. he decorates the church, his son tells me. one way we tried to make easter special for him was by decorating his room in the hospital. i had some friends of minute contribute to decorations in traditional guatemalan color to hang in his room so that he might feel connected to his family today. >> the chaplains in our institution are people who are behind the scenes. they have unique and particular roles, but there are times like 911 or after natural disasters where your job becomes a lot busier. you are at work today on easter. you are called to this. this is a defect time for most of us, but you have a calling that allows you to help people in these times. tell me how you deal with it.

>> i feel called to ministry and i feel called to the work of chaplaincy. i don't think anyone of us realized we were called to these unprecedented times. i'm showing up just like any medical professional one day at a time. every day i take a deep breath and go in ready to see what that day will hold. i'm excited to be with people especially since many of my friends will not be with their family. to share in this moment that is joyful in our traditional. >> we're grateful that you will be there to share these moments with people. thank you for joining us. in our next hour we're going

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