and as we do look ahead to the future, we don't even know whether this president is still contemplating another bid for the white house, which, of course, would be his ultimate acceptance of the fact that he lost in november, which we all know he did, even if he hasn't accepted that reality, brian. r. >> monica alba. you will just have to trust us, she is just directly across the treat from the white house. thank you for that update. we recognize predicting anything these days is rather fraught. that does it for this two-hour chunk of our coverage. ali velshi, my friend and colleague who i last watched -- oh, it seems like between 2:00 and 3:00 a.m. this morning, is back in the chair and ready to lead our coverage of this extraordinary, sad, dark, humiliating day in our country. ali, thank you very much. take it away. what is going to be fraught is not doing this with you, brian. you and i have a history of being able to hand off to each other in major news events and pick it up, but this one has

words and thoughts and ideology associated with it that is not a hurricane and that is not a normal news event. there are words like coup and insurrection and terrorism coming up tonight in the context of the united states government, and that is uncharted territory for both of us. >> thank you, friend. >> all right. have a good night. we will continue our coverage here on msnbc. good morning to you all. i'm ali velshi. welcome to our continuing coverage of the american democracy under attack. right now on capitol hill, a defiant congress is finishing what is normally a mundane ceremonial vote that on wednesday instead because the source of violence and even death. the work of counting the electoral college votes that make joe biden the next president of the united states, just counting the votes, that is the totality of what the work in congress is supposed to be today. what looks like the normal confines of the senate and the house, but do not let this

placid scene we are looking at together fool you. this is what today was, a mob of violent pro-trump rioters breaching the capitol, setting off mayhem and destruction and death. four people lost their lives at the u.s. capitol today. gunfire ringing out in what is the center piece of what was once considered the shining example of how democracy works, but that was all before donald trump took up residence at the white house. this happened because the president of the united states urged his followers to march on the united states capitol at a rally this afternoon, and they didn't disappoint. he said that the election was stolen. he is undermining democracy. he is attempting a coup against the democratic election in the united states. the followers laid siege to a seemingly unprepared law

enforcement contingent, taking over the house of congress. it was a coup attempt in broad daylight. but if the goal was to force members of congress to do his bidding and to support his election fraud fantasies, it backfired. with even those who had supported objections to tight electors pledged to joe biden changing their tunes. >> i cannot now in good conscience object to the certification of these electors. the violence, the lawlessness and siege of the halls of congress are abhorrent and stand as a direct attack on the very institution my objection was intended to protect, the sanctity of the american democratic process. >> that, by the way, is particularly precious. that was senator kelly loeffler who yesterday before her loss to jon ossoff in the run-off in --

i'm sorry, to raphael warnock in the run-off in georgia, decided she was going to object to the counting of the electoral college. then she lost. now she's not doing it anymore. but not every republican in congress was chastened by the violence today. >> what we are doing here tonight is actually very important, because for those who have concerns about the integrity of our elections, those who have concerns about what happened in november, this is the appropriate means. this is the lawful place where those objections and concerns should be heard. this is the forum that the law provides for, our laws provide for those concerns to be registered. not through violence. not by appealing from ballots to bullets, but here in this lawful process. >> actually, that's not true. that was missouri senator josh

hawley. the place to be heard was courts of law. there were 50 of them. rejection after rejection, dismissal after withdrawal, even the supreme court of the united states saying there was no validity to these allegations of fraud. what they are is allegations of fraud and millions of americans believe them. that does not make fraud a thing. signaling his intention earlier in the day to still object to the certification of pennsylvania's electors which he followed through on a short time ago leaving us where we are now. congress forced into up to two hours of debate before it can vote to include the state's vote. the senate, by the way, has finished that debate on pennsylvania. they were allowed up to two hours. they didn't take it at all. they went to a straight up and down vote, voting 97 in favor of counting the legally placed electors of pennsylvania against two against the objection. 97-2. that thing is over in the congress, or at least in the senate. now they're waiting for the

house to finish so they can continue counting the electors. until the house finishes, and that could be two hours, it doesn't go back to the senate where that vote is completed and where mike pence will sign off on it. that is the only job congress has here. there is no role for debate. there is no role for objections. there is only a role to count the votes. let's go right to capitol hill where nbc's garrett haake is standing by. garrett, tell us what has happened now, because that last objection to pennsylvania went to the senate where they were permitted two hours of voting. it is already over. it didn't last 25 minutes as far as i could count. they voted up or down. the senate decided that there's no objection to pennsylvania's electors. this now goes to the house of representatives where, i guess, they have up to two hours to debate. >> reporter: that's right, ali. this election denialism theater will end tonight with a whimper. you mentioned the senate side

where things have now concluded. the only reason we're in this period of debate right now is because josh hawley, republican senator, decided to sign on to this objection on pennsylvania. but even he gave back his time, didn't even speak in the time for debate that was presented to senators. they voted and adjourned. ali, they're done until the day before election day, the idea that there would be up to six challeng challenges went completely out the window. we saw the one challenge to arizona earlier in the day that was interrupted by the riot and then the secondary challenge to pennsylvania. the debate continues on the house side, and the earlier vote on the arizona challenge earlier today you had more than 100 house republicans voting to dispute those electors from arizona. so a lot of those folks are going to want to speak. they're going to want to use up their time. so we are in these late night hours now with members of congress essentially speechifying on the house floor until we get to the vote. i think probably the most interesting speech i heard tonight was from republican

senator mitt romney who absolutely castigated the republicans including josh hawley who are perpetuating this election theft fraud. take a listen to senator romney on the floor tonight. >> for any who remain insistent on an audit in order to satisfy the many people who believe that the election was stolen, i would offer this perspective. no congressional audit is ever going to convince these voters, particularly when the president will continue to say that the election was stolen. the best way we can show respect for the voters who are upset is by telling them the truth! [ applause ] >> that's the duty of leadership. the truth is that president-elect biden won the election. president trump lost. i have had that experience myself. it is no fun.

>> reporter: it was bipartisan applause for senator romney there on the floor, trying to tell his fellow republicans some hard truths, that this is over and that these further antics as we learned today endanger rehumans. ali. >> talk to me about the math right now. the senate said no to the objections to pennsylvania. now it is in the house. they're still debating it. at some point the two chambers have to come together to continue the vote that mike pence then certifies. i'm looking at the bottom of the screen right now. we are at 244 for biden-157. we have to get to 306 for biden for this to be open. when does that happen? does it happen in two hours or tomorrow? >> reporter: oh, that will absolutely happen tonight. nobody is going home until this is over, ali. one of the effects of the riot today and the multi-hour lockdown that followed is lawmakers dug in on this. they will not be pushed out of

finishing their constitutional duty as quickly as they can. bipartisan lawmakers told me they're upset somehow this would delay the process of democracy further than necessary. they will finish tonight. the magic number to watch tonight is 270. it will be the state of vermont whose electors will push joe biden over the 270 mark. again, they will get through the process tonight. no other challenges are anticipated. the only other state that the election objector group was even discussing challenging was wisconsin, but senator ron johnson hasn't even been voting for the challenges that have been put forward so far and he was the member of that group who seemed most likely to challenge the results of his own state. with that off the table, i think once this pennsylvania break is concluded we will move fairly expeditiously through the remaining states, and the work here will be done. >> okay. so i want to ask you, mathematically at 20 minutes after midnight eastern is when they decided to move along. that was when the objection to pennsylvania came up and the

chambers split up. assuming two hours of debate, that would take us to 2:21, and then -- and i don't know if there's time in between there. then there's another 40 minutes of potential debate for both chambers. that takes us to 3:00 a.m. eastern. is that about right? is that what we're looking for when the vote continues? >> reporter: ali, we have worked together a long time so i will forgive you for asking me to do math after mid night. that's exceptionally rude. i will say, yeah, i think that's about right. the process that will take the longest here is the actual voting. these votes in the house take a long time now because of the covid protocols that they've put in place. but, yes, i think that's right. the house can use up to its two hours. they will probably take about 40, 45 minutes to vote. that's what we saw during the arizona challenge. then we just have to work our way through the last little bit of the alphabet here of going through the ritual of opening the envelopes and, you know, moving our way through it, which should not take that long in and of itself once we get everybody back into the house chamber.

>> all right. so we are within a few hours of this whole thing, for those people who decided to stay up with you and me this evening, they may get some conclusion. we may be here when history is made and joe biden is counted as the victor. so, please, don't go too far, garrett. i'm sure you have had a long day, but i'm going to need you here for the next couple of hours. i do want to go to the house of representatives now where procedures are under way. this should be the debate as it relates to the pennsylvania electoral college count. let's listen in for a moment. >> we should be paying attention to the need of hospitals. we are in the middle of a pandemic where hundreds of thousands of people are dying and we're in a recession that is putting millions of americans at risk for hunger, homelessness or both. it is time we start legislating for the people. one last person i want to mention is our junior senator, senator toomey.

very few things that he and i agree, but he has stated very clearly that joe biden has won this election. he has stood up on the senate floor and he has stated that. so it needs to be very clear that the late governor thornburg, albert smith, the commissioner, and our current junior senator all have one thing in common. democracy first, partisanship second. let's keep that in mind. thank you, madam speaker. >> gentleman. >> i yield back. >> thank you. >> we will continue to monitor that and we will monitor what is going on in the house for you. so, please, don't be alarmed as we go away from it. i have a producer who is watching what is going on in the house and i will break into any conversation as news develops because news will develop tonight, and the news that develops tonight will be history because at some point that 244 on the bottom of your screen

will move to 270, and that will be the final constitutionally required confirmation that joe biden will be the 46th president of the united states. after that, it is over in the minds of about 329.99 million people in the united states. the remainder are donald trump and rudy giuliani and sydney powell and a few other people who continue to think that he will be the next president of the united states. but for the rest of us, this will be settled within the next few hours. i want to bring in a panel of experts here. we have the white house correspondent for pbs news hour and msnbc political analyst. harry litman is a former u.s. attorney, was the deputy attorney general -- deputy assistant attorney general during the clinton administration. evan mcmullen is a former cia operative and former independent 2016 presidential candidate. welcome to all three of you for being here.

evan, i want to start with you because donald trump is not just wrecking the -- making an attempt at wrecking american democracy tonight and undertaking a coup attempt. he is taking a sledge hammer to what remains of the republican party. >> well, he certainly is. ali, you know, it is hard to imagine if you are a republican sitting in congress now, seeing what you saw last night in georgia where you were defeated once again and you shouldn't have been defeated in november and you were defeated yet again, losing both senate seats. now, to be clear that's something that i advocated for because i thought it needed to happen with the two georgia senators being as corrupt and extremist as they were. but i don't understand how republicans look at that and realize that trump, especially when he's not on the ballot and he is unlikely to be on the

ballot again, realizing that he is a weight around the neck of the republican party, and then to have this attempted coup, this insurrection, the storming of the capitol building today, something that we have never seen in our lifetimes or in our history, the failure of a peaceful transition, a peaceful transfer of power. we lost a life. blood was spilled in the capitol today. we have never seen this kind of thing before. and even after all of that, a majority of house republicans continued this attempt to overturn the election. so that's what we have now in the republican party. it is eating itself. it is at war with itself and with the country and with our democracy. i don't know what the future holds with a wing of the party that is so committed to

destroying american democracy and another wing perhaps that hopefully will come around to the need for reforms. i don't know if those two wings can coexist. i don't think they can. i don't know what that means for the future, but, you know, the country is at risk as long as one of our two major parties is so committed to destroying our democracy. >> yamiche aliscindor tweeted a while ago, a source familiar with the president's thinking today tells me the president is living in a reality that he has created for himself. he wants to show that he has power at any cost. i cannot imagine a worse demonstration of the idea that you have power than to send an uncontrolled mob into the united states senate that overran the very police who were meant to keep it safe, to the extent that you have police with guns drawn on protesters inside the united states senate, senators secreted

away to a hiding place. this isn't power. this is mayhem. >> it is mayhem that president trump absolutely wanted to see happen. he edged this crowd on. he wanted to make sure that people were angry, that they were riled up this morning. he talked about marching to the capitol and then watched from the safety of the white house as the capitol was broken into and as violence broke out and, unfortunately, a woman lost her life. what we saw tonight was the physical manifestations of the conspiracy theories, the disinformation campaign, the false allegations that president trump has been doing for weeks and months here. it also is the physical manifestation of republicans who saw the president doing this, saw the president angering millions of americans and said, well, i'm going to kind of not go all the way against him, i'm not going to challenge him all the way until it is at the doorstep of the capitol and now

windows are broken and people are looking for safety. we see now a white house that is in chaos with people resigning and people close to the president tell me just what i tweeted, which is that he is a president who has lost it. he is seen even by his allies, the people closest to him, as someone who at this point as someone who is drunk on power. someone who looks at the protesters and says, look what they can do for me. we are told the president wants to hold on to power no matter what. it seems that he will be pushed out of office on january 20th, no longer to be president in about 13 days now. but that being said, a lot of people are scared about the next two weeks because they see the president as someone more isolated and angry than ever before. >> i want to ask the control room to keep the pictures up, whether it is on the main screen or bottom of the corner, what is

going on in congress. harry litman, there are those that have been told not to use coup, insurrection and terrorist. joyce vance tells me we have to be careful with treason because it implies something with unique implications. this is a coup attempt. it is a president who was encouraging an insurrection. he is a president who lies, doesn't tell half truths and truths, whatever nonsense bs the media has been using for the last four years. he is a liar, and those people who stormed the capitol today are terrorists. it is a disservice to the american people to say anything less. >> look, you are totally right, and it is not just common parlance but the law books that call it that. there are any number of crimes that he might potentially be charged with. i have been among the people arguing for possible prudence and abeyance with respect to charging him, but the federal interest, which is what you think about when you charge a federal crime, has changed

dramatically today. we saw an assault on the physical heart of the democracy, the sort of thing you saw maybe with timothy mcveigh but worst when he went after a post office, and we saw an assault on the beating heart of democracy in the sense of peaceful transfer of power. this really has to change the calculus for the new nominee for attorney general, merrick garland. it really is something that a federal law enforcement authority can't just look the other way about. so i concur with your and joyce's characterizations. i can understand why journalists are trying to perhaps be calm, and there was an aspect here of almost low-life bufoonery, but it was a dark and humiliating day as you and so many others have pointed out, and the aftermath of it has to take account of that. >> yeah, look, i am saddened and

disgusted as a journalist i have to use words like this about the president of the united states and that we have to talk about coup attempts and we have to talk about insurrection and sedition and lies. i had this conversation with a colleague the other day about why we aren't prepared to say lies all the time. donald trump lies all the time. in these 14 days left, there is so much more he can lie about and so much more he can do to advance this coup that he is trying to advance. we need to call it for what it is. stand by to all of you, please. my panelists are going to be with me but i want to bring in democratic congressman of tennessee, steve cohen. he was one of hundreds of lawmakers who had to hunker down amid the chaotic scene today. earlier he tweeted, tonight we will fulfill our constitutional duty to certify this election even after trump's rebel guard stormed the people's house. trump is an enemy of america, but america won.

steve cohen, tonight that is the case. tonight it is the case that donald trump is the enemy of america. if there are people still working for donald trump tonight, i have invited them to come on this show. we will clear space. i will even ask steve cohen not to talk if i can bring on a donald trump employee tonight, a white house employee tonight who will resign now and show that you have the courage of your convictions and you have guts to stand against a president who is ripping america apart. i don't have that person right now, so i've got you, steve cohen. >> you'll have me for a while if that's the level that i need to achieve. ali, it is good to be back with you. it was a bizarre day, of course, and it was a scary day. i wasn't at all hurt in any way. i was a bit shaken. i was in the gallery and we were -- capitol police came in and started locking the doors and then i heard people beating on the doors, and so we knew

that the rabble had arrived. we were told then to put on our -- get our masks up, gas masks and put them on, that they're underneath the seats in the capitol. never thought about them. that's the first day i was there. you got to look and went, wow, and then 15 years later i'm putting one on. then we were told to evacuate, which we did. we climbed over -- or under the rails and got out and then i got into my office. i locked my doors. i got my baseball bat, sat down and was ready if they came in here. i was going to hit. there's one, a guy with a baseball bat. we could have had a real duel. but these people were incited by donald trump. donald trump wanted them to put on an alternative performance to the electoral college, which was going to be the official version of his defeat, the final chronicling of his loss of the presidency. rather than have that be the news, he wanted to create his

own alternative universe. he is like caligula. he's sitting at home i'm sure in his bed, eating fried chicken and mcdonald's and watching this and getting off on it. he is a sick human being and he has been that way. i tell you, the first time i knew much about him, of course he has been around. i was on chris hayes's show way back when when the attorney general was after him for trump university. i was walking down fifth avenue to go to 30 rock, and i saw all of these helicopters flying around. i kind of had this vision of king kong and the helicopters, you know, airplanes or whatever it was and the chrysler building. i thought, what's that going on and i couldn't figure it out. when i got to chris hayes the attorney general was on with me, and it was all about trump university. i realized they were trump. i thought, i never want to see that man and i never want to have anything to do with him because he's out there. i have not talked to him. i have not seen him. one time i saw him, i turned a

quick 180 and got away. the man has been sick from day one. i did not go to his inauguration. with john lewis, we both said that he was an invalid president and we didn't go. didn't go to his state of the union. the man needs to go, in the next 14 days he can do a lot more. >> yeah. >> he encouraged these people to come to the capitol. he said, come, it will be wild. he wanted violence. he wanted a show. he's caligula. he is there watching it. luckily he doesn't have a horse or the horse would be attorney general. >> he is a little bit like cesar crossing the rubicon. i think he was looking as some of the violence as an excuse to bring in the military and to do some of the things that guys like mike flynn had been talking about. he skirted with martial law, he skirted with seizing voting machines, he skirted where the idea of using his power in the streets. what he had was a mobile rag-tag army, you know, of people who wouldn't register as conscripts

to do his dirty work today, but someone lost their lives. actually, a few lives were lost today because of donald trump's folly. >> and donald trump doesn't care. donald trump does not have a conscience. he is an amoral sociopath, narcissistic sociopath. this is all there for his amusement. all of these people are there to vote for him. he could care less about them. of course, when he did the tax scam these people got next to nothing out of it. his billionaire friends got 80% of the benefits. mostly what he did was for himself and his family. the guy is -- where is keith oberman? i know keith oberman hates him, he does these shows, but he is the worst person in the world. every single day, every day he is the worst person in the world, and this guy does not have a redeeming social value. you know, the whole thing, it has been a disgrace for america to have him as president. it is a disgrace for america to have him within our 48 states, or 50 states, anywhere.

he is just -- the sooner we get him out, the better. i have this button on. i wore this button today because we're going to have the inauguration of joe biden and kamala harris, and i'm looking forward to it. that's what we're doing today. joe biden is a decent human being and it is going to be good to have a decent human being who will be respected on the world stage and make america look better. right now this guy has taken our country down around the world in so many ways. he did it getting out of the iran deal. he did it getting out of the paris accords. he has done it in so many other ways, but today we look like a fool. we look like a third world country with a tin pot dictator running the show. the guy is going to do more in the next 14 days, there's no way to get him out unless mike pence finds a way for us to do the 25th amendment, and i don't think there's enough cabinet members with enough courage to invoke the 25th amendment.

>> this should be a night in which some of you get the courage to consider the 25th amendment of the united states. this is the night to start thinking about that. >> got to be trump's cabinet. there's -- >> congressman cohen, good to see you. steve cohen of tennessee. we appreciate your time. this is supposed to be one of the most heavily protected places in the whole country, but today rioters incited by donald trump's angry words stormed capitol hill like it was nothing. what that says about security on the hill. the hill ♪ ♪ ♪

2020's done a new era has begun so keep pushing forward... because this is twenty twenty won make a different future start different at godaddy.com

for people with heart failure taking entresto, it may lead to a world of possibilities. entresto is a heart failure medicine prescribed by most cardiologists. it was proven superior at helping people stay alive and out of the hospital. heart failure can change the structure of your heart so it may not work as well. entresto helps improve your heart's ability to pump blood to the body. and with a healthier heart, there's no telling where life may take you. don't take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ask your doctor about entresto for heart failure. entrust your heart to entresto.

that's what it looked like today inside capitol hill. people got in way past the capitol police, inside of capitol hill. there's a whole mystery there we need to talk about, how folks like that got inside. i will tell you, i covered a number of the protests earlier this summer. the protesters i was amongst wouldn't have gotten anywhere clear past a police line like that without a whole bunch of people getting gassed or shot with rubber bullets as i was. crowds have dispersed from pennsylvania avenue as washington, d.c. remains under a curfew until 6:00 a.m. this morning. this comes after mass chaos broke out on capitol hill about 12 hours ago. a mob of trump supporters stormed the halls of congress. they did everything. they climbed up over capitol hill. you got to look at some of the

cops there. there's quite a question about what was going on with capitol police who didn't seem nearly as troubled by this whole operation as most of the police i ran into this summer when there were black lives matter protesting. they had guns up. they had national guard all over them. here the capitol police didn't seem to be all that well prepared for this. joining me now is nbc's josh letterman who has been in the thick of the protests all night. josh, a substantially calmer scene behind you right now, but it was a chaotic afternoon. this curfew ends tomorrow. what are we anticipating? >> reporter: well, officials here certainly are aware of the possibility that things could continue to be dangerous in the coming days, ali. the mayor of the district of columbia warning that the destruction and also even the rioting could extend beyond the u.s. capitol. that's why officials are scrambling now to make preparations, particularly after we saw what i think can only be described as an utter failure by

law enforcement and by the capitol police in particular to prevent today the occupation of the u.s. capitol. now the mayor of d.c., she is extending the public emergency here in the nation's capital for another 15 days. that, of course, would take us straight through january 20th when president-elect joe biden is expected to be inaugurated just on the steps of the capitol behind me. i think at the end of such a harrowing day, ali, it is important we take stock of the carnage that has been wrought on this day. more than 50 arrests today, including 47 related to violating the curfew. others related to possession of firearms as well as destruction of property and other infringements. we also had four people die, including that woman. i saw her rolled out on a stretcher as they were doing cpr after that gunshot wound. she later died, was declared dead at the hospital.

three other people that we now know passed away. we're told they may have suffered medical emergencies, were transported to the hospital while cpr was being performed on them. so the real question, ali, is where do we go from here as we try to heal from this experience. i got to tell you, as we were speaking to some of the rioters here today and listening as they were speaking with each other as things were getting calmer throughout the evening, many of them saw that video from president trump as the president kind of winking at them that, oh, that's kind of what he has to say, please go home, but that he really didn't want all of this to end. we heard from some who said that when it comes to today, they felt like they succeeded, everything that they set out to do. they saw how congress stopped that process of affirming the electoral college vote and they believe that sent a signal to state legislatures that it is time for them to back off, reconsider their certification of their electoral college

votes. so there's some scepticism that what took place today, the trump rioters could see an advantage to continuing over the next few days. >> what happens from the police perspective? the police were a mess today on capitol hill. i now believe everybody has gone in to help them, the metropolitan accomplish in washington, state police from new jersey, police from maryland, police from virginia, national guard from virginia, national guard from maryland. i assume that rando's that show up at capitol hill tomorrow with weapons will be arrested and thrown in jail. that didn't happen today. they were walking around like that kid kyle rittenhouse was in kenosha with guns walking out freely. it is a bit of an affront to americans who spent their summer protesting and getting arrested and teargassed and hit with rubber bullets by police, and these folks were walking around

freely like nothing had happened. >> reporter: yeah, well, this is one of the challenges when you try to maintain order in a situation like this, in a jurisdiction like here in washington, d.c. where you have literally dozens of law enforcement agencies that have overlapping responsibilities. of course, on the capitol behind me it is supposed to be the capitol police that take the lead. they clearly today for whatever reason were not up to the job alone, and you had the convergence of all of those you mentioned. add a couple ots li others like fbi, custom and border patrol that descended on the grounds. the d.c. mayor, the metropolitan police responded when they were called for backup. that's all they can do. a lot of scrutiny will come in the days ahead, particularly on the capitol police as well as on the coordination among the various agencies that are responsible for protecting our nation's capital when you have

an incident like this that, frankly, a lot of people say should have been anticipated. >> josh, i will see you there tomorrow. you stay safe. it is not over in washington. hopefully this vote will be over by tonight. we are watching it very, very closely. i want to show you, there's still a picture of capitol hill right now. they are still debating, a little bit of chuck willing going on over there. but this thing should be over soon. then they're going to call the senators into the house and then they're going to vote on the whole thing and that should put joe biden over the top and that should be the last thing that happens before the inauguration. joining me now is sonia pruett, retired captain of the montgomery, maryland, police department. she is a chairman of the black police association and a member of the law enforcement partnership. captain pruitt, good to see you. i'm going to just say it. we are apparently much more definitive in our control of protesters who are black than our control of protesters who

are white with guns. >> wow, ali. you just tell the truth 2021. this is what i'm calling it, and you just hit the nail on the head. listen, all of the country's racial hypocrisy was laid bare today. i have a long time howard classmate and friend january buckner who called it naked racial hypocrisy because it is a violation of public decency. there is no way you could not notice the difference to today between how black lives matter protesters, for instance, were treated this summer and how these rioters and looters and this mob and these thugs, and i am calling those things on purpos purpose, breached the capitol and were treated with kid gloves. barriers were opened for them. selfies were being taken. i have to tell you this. i am not willing to give a pass on preparation. let me tell you why. because some of your previous guests today have hit on this

particular point. capitol police know how to handle protests. they've been handling them for a long time. not only that, but there are things you can do. there's surveillance. there's intel that you can gather. what happened to all of that? i mean babies who are not born could have seen this coming, yet no one, no federal agency teamed up with the capitol police in order to stop what happened today. i am personally appalled. and then when you point out the significance, the significance of the racial piece where you have people who have breached the capitol carrying confederate flags, hanging nooses from wooden structures, and don't think that that's going to affect how the people of this country perceive the police, then they would be mistaken. >> are we going to learn a lesson from today that will not repeat itself tomorrow? because those protesters aren't going away. they gather on social media. they believe everything donald

trump tells them, and they believe democracy is being stolen. so i suspect they are in d.c., they will continue to be in d.c. we've had sporadic reports around the country of people storming state houses and places like that. is there a lesson being learned? how does this work in policing? is everybody sitting around tonight and saying, this is how we're going to make sure this does not happen again, where the house of the people is under siege by a bunch of rioters, many of whom were armed? >> listen, i certainly hope so, but we cannot ignore the fact again that there was some flexibility and leniency given to this group of people. why is that? i would hate to think that the sympathizers in the police department, because there are some, of course. i mean some probably had to run home and change clothes in order to come back and respond and help the capitol police. at any rate, i think what has happened here today is going to set a dangerous precedent.

i don't think that it is over. i think that the curtain has been pulled back on the wizard of oz, and now we are finding out that the wizard of oz is really the emperor with no clothes. he has thrown blood in the water. when you throw blood in the water, you just don't have sharks respond, you have jaws. that's what we have right now. i'm concerned about it. i'm not only concerned about it for the d.c. area but the rest of the country. >> no kidding. sonia pruitt, good to see you as always. she is a former chair of the national black police association, a member of the law enforcement action partnership and retired captain of the montgomery county, maryland, police department which is right outside the district of columbia. you are taking a look at the house of representatives right now. there seems to be some action in there. they are debating pennsylvania at the moment. they've had up to two hours to debate it. i don't know where we are on that clock. it started at about 21 after midnight, so we're probably about an hour and a half in. there shouldn't be much more left. then they will call the members of the senate in. let's listen in to hear what

nancy pelosi is saying. -- will clear the chamber. the gentleman will proceed. >> thank you, madam speaker. the truth hurts. but the fact is this. we want this government to work more than they want it to fail. and after everything that's happened today, we want that more than ever. know that. know that the people watching at home. we want this government to work. we will make it work. they will not make it fail. thank you, madam speaker. i yield back. abo . >> who is next? >>pennsylvania, okay. >> when is the appropriate time

to ask that the words be stricken and taken down? >> exactly when the words are spoken. you are late. for what purpose is the gentleman from louisiana seek recognition? are you seeking recognition? who seeks time to speak on the objection? >> the gentleman from louisiana. >> i rise, madam speaker, in support of the objection. >> the gentleman is recognized for five minutes without objection. >> thank you, madam speaker. my, my, my. let us take a deep breath, shall we. madam speaker, the cornerstone of the strength of our american republic is not only the peaceful transition of power, but it is the peaceful transition of a lawful power. it is within the parameters of

our oath, indeed, it is our duty to inquire if we suspect that perhaps our elections have been compromised. much has been said about what we do not know. what we do not know calls for investigation. what we do know is that in the disputed states, governors, secretaries of state or local election commissions acted in violation of the election clause of the u.s. constitution wherein state legislatures are granted the sole authority to determine how presidential electors are appointed. it is that simple. state executive officials usurped the constitutionally vested authorities of state legislatures within several of the sovereign states. why are we involved in congress? because the founders gave us a narrow role. >> all right. we are going to continue to monitor that. i want to tell you that's a perfect example how you don't wear a mask. he started his mask, wearing it

around his nose. he has taken it completely off. but then he did one of these. i'm just going to ask the director to come back to me. this is not useful. okay. when you are wearing a mask, do that. if you are going to do that with your mask, then save yourself all of the trouble, take the mask off. we are having a conversation in there. they're debating --s they're debating the state of pennsylvania but as you said the member is talking about states that didn't run their elections properly, and all sorts of allegations of wrongdoing. wednesday as riot in the capital started online perpetrated by activists on the fringes of the internet. that used to not matter to people, they didn't care that much. but the fringes of the internet became mainstream. there's an interesting way in which these things get to the fringe from mainstream, find themselves on to "fox news" or places that the president consumes, and then they make themselves on to phone calls

that the president has with the secretary of state from georgia listing all of the things wrong with the election, none of which were true. but they all start on the internet. this is all of the garbage on social media. i want to bring in clint watts, former fbi special agent and msnbc special security analyst, the author of "messing with the enemy." roger mcnamey, and the author of "zucked." roger, let me start with you. with the issues we have discussed about the internet with relating to privacy and the internet. this is a separate department. this is where the internet has become an echo chamber for absolute bs and garbage that circulates around a population of people but somehow makes its way back on to extreme far right

radio, far right web, and then mainstream web and then on to tv, to the extent if you listen to the hour-long conversation between the president and brad raffensperger the other day, the one that was released, it is all just conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory that's been debunked in the real world. >> so, ali, the profits of these companies are dependent on holding our attention. because they are able to target us individually, they create a truman show for each and every person who is on their platforms. so for facebook or youtube or twitter, each person is in their own information space, and this can be a real problem because people approach it as though it is real life when, in fact, it is more like a simulation or a video game. they're giving you stuff designed to provoke you emotionally because that is what makes you most valuable to them. the more they know about your emotional state, the better they

can target you with advertising, the better they can manipulate your behavior to get you to do things that are profitable for them. so the problem that we have here is that the content that's most effective at doing that is hate speech, disinformation, and conspiracy theories, the very stuff we are talking about here. what has happened over the last few years is that these companies have become so dominant in our political discourse that the conspiracy theories of disinformation spilled over from the online world into the real world. what we're seeing today is qanon and anti vax and maga, all merged together. they were isolated there, and now they're tipping into the real world and people are getting killed. we saw the same thing going on with the denial of covid and the vaccine disinformation that's been circulating, where our response to covid has been harmed by that.

so this is really a serious problem. as tempting as it is to blame trump and his enablers for all of this, it is very clear that facebook and youtube, instagram and twitter and others have played a huge role. without them you couldn't organize the events, you couldn't share the disinformation and people couldn't be sucked into these worlds of alternative realities. >> and weirdly, today they've all taken action. facebook has suspended donald trump's accounts for sometime. twitter has. >> 24 hours. >> 24 hours. and they got some thinking to do about that because, roger, as you have mentioned before, some of the stuff is incompatible with democracy. clint watts, let's talk about something else here. again, i am on a bit of a roll tonight with journalists, mostly the places journalists work for who are telling them to be careful about how we characterize this thing. i have no desire to be careful about how i characterize the terrorists who attempted to

enter and succeeded in entering the united states capitol. there is no resemblance between them and the protesters whom i covered in the streets of minneapolis, in the streets of chicago, in the streets of new york during the summer who were agitating for social change. these were people who were assisting the president in perpetrating a coup through insurrection and with the goal of intimidating government. that is terrorism. >> that's right, ali. this was foreseen. we knew about it. we had teams watching this all day and starting yesterday and, you know, earlier last week. this was well-known that they were going to do this. it was not hidden, and we knew they were going to do this because they did this in the michigan state capital many months ago. this is not surprising in any way. and when we are talking about terrorism, what is terrorism? it is the use of violence or the threat of violence in pursuit of political, social or religious change. >> i'll just interrupt you for a second, because one of the reasons we weren't talking about

the guy who blew up his rv in tennessee as terrorism is because they were trying to make a determination as to whether it was supposed to influence some kind of societal or political change, and rightfully or wrongfully so police could not make that determination. there is no issue with making that determination about these people on capitol hill today. >> none at all, ali. and they said they wanted to go into the capitol. you could see this on social media. it is available for everyone to see. and they're celebrating it today, and i almost guarantee there are people plotting and planning to do this in other places around the country right now. they're going to, this will continue on. as we can see from the republican congressmen that have gone back in to the capitol just since this happened, they're not backing away from these conspiracy theories. they're repeating them. as they repeat them, they're echoed on social media. they're also echoed on a lot of the new cable news channels like

one america news and others. this is perpetuating over and over again. it is a cycle that's resistant to fact, an alternative reality and satisfying a demand for trump supporters specifically. that's what it is designed about. it is not a sort of lone militia group. it is not a radical outfit on the fringes. this is a mainstream group that is following with the president, which is why he was there today. he was the one who was talking to them. he was the one who was talking about walking up there with them or being with them. i guarantee many of these people thought he was probably there or has walked through or still believe that. so i think one of the biggest challenges for the new administration as they come this is this isn't going to go away on inauguration day. in fact, it may even get stronger in some ways because the people that are in power right now that are empowering this won't actually have to do any of the parts of governing in two to three weeks.

>> roger macnamee, donald trump is a serial liar who is encouraging a coup and encouraging people to involve themselves in an insurrection. why is that not enough for twitter and youtube and facebook? >> that is everybody's million dollar question, ali. i look at this as a citizen, as a human being. look, these guys could be the hero in their own story. it is so easy to solve this, but they've convinced themselves that for some reason they have to allow all the extreme conversations to happen. you know, they basically rationalized what is good for their business is being somehow an issue of the first amendment. my basic point is the way you stop this is not by censoring people but rather by changing the business model so they don't amplify harmful content disproportionately. what is wrong with facebook, youtube and twitter is that the most angry and harmful voices have the most amplification,

therefore, they're overrepresented in every single conversation. as clint said, this isn't going to end on inauguration day. the biden administration now has both motive and opportunity to do something about this industry because this is not going to stop until they're forced to change the business model and change the business practices. >> gentlemen, thank you as always. clint watts, roger macnamee, co-founder for the center for human technology and author of "zucked." thanks to both of you. welcome back to our continuing coverage of what is going on in congress. on the left of your screen we have a live picture of what is happening right now. we should be coming to the end of the two hours of debate on the issue of pennsylvania, at which point both the house and the senate will reconvene together for up to 40 minutes of debate, after which we should be able to finish this entire vote and confirm the count that makes

joe biden the 46th president of the united states. we're taking a break. i'll be back on the other side. ♪ 2020's done a new era has begun so keep pushing forward... because this is twenty twenty won

make a different future start different at godaddy.com unstopables in-wash scent booster downy unstopables

want to sell the best burger add an employee.ode? or ten... then easily and automatically pay your team and file payroll taxes. that means... world domination! or just the west side. run payroll in less than five minutes with intuit quickbooks. with hepatitis c... ...i ...best for my family.my... in only 8 weeks with mavyret... ...i was cured. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. i worried about my hep c. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret... ...i was cured. mavyret is the only 8-week cure for all types of hep c. before starting mavyret your doctor will test... ...if you've had hepatitis b which may flare up and cause serious liver problems during and after treatment. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b, a liver or kidney transplant,...

...other liver problems, hiv-1, or other medical conditions,... ...and all medicines you take. don't take mavyret with atazanavir... ...or rifampin, or if you've had certain liver problems. if you've had or have serious liver problems other than hep c, there's a rare chance they may worsen. signs of serious liver problems may include yellowing of the skin, abdominal pain or swelling, confusion, and unexplained bleeding or bruising. tell your doctor if you develop symptoms of liver disease. common side effects include headache and tiredness. with hep c behind me, i feel free... ...fearless... ...because i am cured. if you can't afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. welcome back. i'm ali velshi. an attempted coup is under way in the united states. the president of the united states refusing to accept his loss in an election and encouraging violence and insurrection which manifested today with an attack, a direct attack on the h