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>> good morning. it is saturday, february the 8th, day 19 of donald trump's second term. efforts are intensifying to fulfill the president's promise to dismantle the so-called deep state across all levels of the federal government. many republican lawmakers have celebrated this administration's actions as efforts to reduce wasteful government spending. but the ongoing purge is also in furtherance of donald trump's main purpose for his return to power. his stated purpose retribution. just yesterday, he reiterated his intent to fire some of the fbi agents who investigated january 6th cases. a preview of what's to come. but first, trump's unprecedented attempt to drastically reduce the size of the federal government has hit some legal roadblocks. for now, a federal judge has paused the administration's deferred resignation offer from taking effect until at least monday afternoon, when a hearing will be held. the offer is a sweeping attempt to convince federal workers to voluntarily leave their posts, as republicans

forge ahead with their plans to shrink the federal workforce. the offer was presented to more than 2 million federal workers, and a senior administration official told nbc news that more than 60,000 federal workers have accepted it as of thursday, shortly before the court issued that pause. but meanwhile, the administration has taken a number of other bold steps in its attempt to upend every facet of the government. consider these recent changes. earlier in the week, more than 1000 environmental protection agency employees were informed that they could be fired immediately, which a spokesperson said was part of the agency's effort to, quote, create a more effective and efficient federal government. end quote. additionally, it also placed 168 workers on administrative leave after it announced plans to shutter the agency's office of environmental justice and external civil rights, which worked to address how pollution and other environmental factors have affected communities of color, as well as low income and rural communities. even more

ambitious, however, is president trump and elon musk's attempt to completely gut the u.s. agency for international development, more commonly known as usaid. yesterday, crews removed the signage from usaid former headquarters in the ronald reagan building in washington, d.c. it's now going to be taken over by something closer to the president's heart. customs and border protection. the trump administration also planned to place 2700 of the agency's employees on administrative leave this week, as part of its larger effort to shrink its workforce from more than 10,000 to just a few hundred. but last night, a federal judge temporarily blocked those plans as well after a pair of unions sued to stop the government from taking action against those workers. the radical restructuring of federal agencies and the massive purge of government employees underway right now will likely have many long term effects. the dismantling of the epa, for

example, could seriously set back the planet's collective effort to slow or stop the effects of climate change. meanwhile, the possible closure of usaid could damage america's relationship with other countries and diminish its reputation and its so-called soft power influence around the world. these are examples of the types of changes that the trump administration wants to implement, not just to shrink the government, but also in order to impose its ideology across all sectors of public life. remember, they wrote this down in a big 922 page book that i carried around for months, project 2025. in fact, it's all supported by this guy, a guy named russell vote, whom senators republican senators just voted to confirm as the director of the office of management and budget. that's the federal government's sort of budgetary priorities office. it's kind of where priorities become laws. vote is also, you will remember, one of the

architects of project 2025, that policy handbook that outlined exactly how the trump administration would wield its power to enact an ultra conservative agenda, which is exactly what we're seeing happen. nothing that is happening is a surprise. the scope of it might be vote, by the way, supports something called the unitary executive theory, which posits that the president has sole unchecked control over the executive branch of the government. under that legal framework, the executive power of the president is more expansive and absolute than it has ever been in practice, and we're seeing a lot of that play out right now as trump tests the limits of his powers over various departments under the executive branch, including the department of justice and the fbi, institutions that are supposed to operate independently from the white house. but those institutions are being taken over and remade by some of donald trump's closest allies. they're also the primary targets of trump's retribution, as he seeks to rid both of them of

people who were involved in january, six related investigations and prosecutions. at a press conference yesterday, president trump told reporters that he will fire some of the fbi agents who worked on january 6th cases, alleging without evidence that some of them were corrupt, which, by the way, would be illegal. anyway. he made that pledge the day after the acting fbi director, a guy named brian driscoll, confirmed that he had handed over a list of fbi employees who worked on such cases to the office of the acting deputy attorney general emil bove, who recently accused driscoll of insubordination. if these resignations and these removals and these acts of retribution continue, the radical remaking of the federal government will come at a real cost. decades of institutional knowledge will be lost. plenty of skilled workers trained on monitoring threats and investigating crimes will be purged, and nothing less than the national security and the public safety of the american people are at stake. joining me

now, the democratic congressman, lloyd doggett of texas. he's a member of the budget and ways and means committee, as well as the joint committee on taxation. joyce vance, also joining us, former united states attorney for the northern district of alabama. she's a senior fellow for the brennan center for justice, co-host of the sisters in law podcast, and an msnbc contributor and columnist. good morning to both of you. thank you for being with us. congressman. it's important to talk to somebody like you because you are on the two committees, the budget and the ways and means committee, which arguably are the things that the constitution refers to when it says congress has got to meet at least once a year to appropriate funds for the operation of the government. it's a constitutional responsibility that is given to members of congress. but what we've seen play out in the last 19 days, and in particular in the last week with elon musk and doge, is not that we're seeing something else happen. so if we want to have real arguments about where money should be saved or spent, it is on the committees that you you populate and in the halls of congress, not with elon musk and

doge. >> that's absolutely. >> right, ali. >> and i really appreciate the focus. >> that you. have in informing. >> the american people about this. you know, trump. >> and his. >> minions say they want. >> to flood the zone with one authoritarian move. >> after another. >> and we have. >> to build the dam to. >> contain those. >> flood waters and. >> to push them back. >> he is really on a path to tyranny. >> in addition. >> to the actions. >> that you just mentioned. >> that he's already taken yesterday, it. was cutting almost in half. the employees of the centers for disease control. just as we could face future pandemics and other public health measures. last night, elon musk, just as he did for the agency for international development, he announced the death sentence for the consumer protection consumer financial protection bureau, an entity that delivered about $21 billion

in relief to american consumers. and russell vote declared himself to be the new head of that office. the way we have to fight back, i believe, is to litigate, legislate and motivate and all of those things we need to be doing at once. the legislative part could come up again as early as this next week on the budget committee, as we consider the republican budget soon thereafter on the ways and means committee, because all of this, as with the consumer financial protection bureau, change is about protecting the billionaire class. they want to adopt their additional tax breaks for the billionaire class. and all of this is the groundwork for doing that, as well as for making donald trump the true tyrant of our country. >> yeah, i'd love people to just look up the cfpb if they haven't done so, and tell me what part of lowering the fees that you pay on your mortgages, lowering the fees that you pay to banks, lowering overdraft fees, getting rid of junk fees is the part that you'd like elon musk to take away. or russell vote to

take away. joyce, let's talk about there's a legislative stuff that that, that congressman doggett talked about. and then there's the, the, the, the legal stuff putting aside the justice department, the fbi and the retribution that's going on over there right now. one thing we have seen a lot of in the last 19 days is lawsuits, and some of them are making some ground. nothing has been taken off the table that donald trump is trying to do. but there have been some tros, there have been some stays, there have been some things that they've got to get have hearings on. talk to me about how pull back and just tell me how you're evaluating the legal world right now. what we have, in fact, at the moment is a 19 state lawsuit against some of the stuff that elon musk is doing. we've had lawsuits having to do with birthright citizenship about the freezing of funding. tell me about this landscape. >> so a lot. >> of what we're seeing the trump administration do. >> is stuff. >> that belongs in the congressman's lane. >> it's political. >> policy making decisions that

you and i may not like, but that's within the administration's power. where the lawyers are jumping in is where trump and in many cases, musk, are exceeding their legal authority. and then the lawyers are going to court, for instance, with birthright citizenship, saying that trump can't constitutionally eradicate something that's in the constitution. what we're seeing with dozier, a variety now of lawsuits arguing that what's happening exceeds powers, violates individuals rights, is not in the united states best interests. and you're right, ali, we're seeing some early successes in these cases, but these are just procedural moves. a number of federal district court judges have now frozen the status quo in place. they're saying that nothing can change, most notably, in the wee hours of this morning, a federal judge said that elon musk's folks who are inside of the treasury department's payment systems have to stop what they're doing, have to destroy all of the information that they may have already made copies of. this is

just freezing the status quo in place so that the litigation can get rolling. >> and if you'll let me. >> can i just underscore one point that congressman made about cfpb, which is a us attorney i repeatedly turned to for assistance in protecting citizens. and one example that's so powerful is with the payday lenders who charge usurious rates of interest on loans that they were getting. it was tough to get out. the cfpb was the agency that got thousands of citizens out from under that. i mean, this is really destructive for american people. >> congressman, again, one of the reasons i wanted to talk to you and you and i have had this conversation before. every american deserves to have their tax dollars spent efficiently. i, like everybody else, surprise, surprise, would like to pay lower taxes if i could. but we have a system in congress. you on the ways and means committee and on the budget committee. you can discuss these things. you can debate them. you can hold hearings. you can have americans

say this is a priority or this isn't a priority. this doesn't have to be done outside of the government. >> that's absolutely right. and congress is constitutionally given the power of the purse. and what elon musk and dismissing employees and russell vote and donald trump are trying to do is to take that power for themselves. unfortunately, our republican colleagues, we've had many profiles in cowardice over the last couple of weeks. they're not interested in asserting their rights. the measure, the lawsuit that joyce just mentioned that's so important shows the interconnection between the litigation and the legislation. that lawsuit got a temporary restraining order to prevent further access and the destruction of documents about access to the records of every single american, our personal records, health care records, financial records. we don't know what use elon musk may choose to make of that, but this restraining order is important.

but it only lasts for about another week i have filed. i will be filing together with my ways and means colleague, a rarely used tool called a resolution of inquiry, that's designed to get all of the information about how this came about and what information elon musk had and who had it. apparently, one of the people involved was a 25 year old who was dismissed for his racist comments and his claims that only white men could get things done and denigrating women. and donald trump's big success is that he's just rehired this fired employee who should have never been there in the first place. >> the conversations we have these days are not conversations i imagined having when i started off as a journalist, and we thank you both for giving us your clarity and your expertise. this morning, democratic representative lloyd doggett of texas and joyce vance, our good friend, former united states attorney and msnbc contributor and columnist. all right, straight ahead. what can be done? we started this conversation to stop elon musk's grip on the federal government. i'm going to talk to

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183 palestinian prisoners into both gaza and the west bank. this is the first. the fifth round. i'm sorry, of hostage and prisoner exchanges since the ceasefire began on january 19th, the day before the second inauguration of donald trump. joining me now from hostage square in tel aviv is nbc news's yasmin vossoughian. yasmin, you and i have been talking all morning. when we talked last hour, we were talking about the israeli hostages released. let's now turn to the 183 palestinian prisoners. and again, we have to describe this because some of them are are in there for adjudicated crimes and some are not. some are administrative prisoners. talk to me about who they are and where they went. >> 183 as you mentioned, that's the number in totality. some of them went to the west bank. some of them went to gaza as well as you mentioned. some of them have not been put on trial, some with long sentences, others who were captured directly after october 7th in gaza. seven of them in

the west bank were sent directly to hospitals in the west bank area, who, by the way, we know from doctors without borders, is in in kind of dire humanitarian straits and needing medical aid, many of them stating because they actually had malnutrition, starvation from being imprisoned for quite some time. others that were sent back to gaza were actually sent to hospitals in the south of gaza, to european hospitals. they're also suffering from malnutrition and starvation as well. and so certainly a dire situation across the board. if you think about what palestinians have really been dealing with in gaza for quite some time, especially those that have returned to the north of gaza, many of them without anything to keep them warm. no tents, no caravans, no mobile homes. they were promised to them in the humanitarian aid that was supposed to be sent over to palestinians in this cease fire deal. and so far, those have not come through. other humanitarian aid has subsequently come through. they are getting 600 trucks a day in humanitarian aid. but we're talking about caravans along with tents and mobile homes,

things that have been promised that are desperately needed right now in the cold winter months. those certainly have not made it there. when you think about what is happening here in hostage square and the release of those three israeli hostages today as well, i think there was a question as to whether or not the cease fire was going to stick, especially after we heard what came out of washington this past week from president trump, along with prime minister benjamin netanyahu, and saying gazans should leave gaza and that gaza should in fact be turned over to the united states. but it seems across the board from both palestinians and israelis that i've spoken to here in hasan square, who were so emotional in seeing these three hostages released today, who certainly looked emaciated, not in good health, wanting something to happen to stick and to live and coexist together. let's take a listen to one father and daughter who i spoke to a little bit earlier today. >> a few weeks ago, girls were released. that could have been ayala. ayala is going to the army in a year. it's. it's part of us. we're part of the

tragedy. we're part of the survivors. we're happy for them. we're sad for the people that are still there. we're sad for the entire situation. it's a it's an entire tragedy for the entire region. and we're optimistic that something good would happen. >> after an entire tragedy for the whole region. much of the way that we have been covering this, a tragedy for the israelis, for the palestinians as well, both receiving hostages and prisoners in light of this day, in which there are so many emotions all across the board. >> no kidding. thanks for your excellent reporting on this, as always, my friend. nbc's yasmin vossoughian in hostage square in tel aviv. all right. coming up next, congresswoman ayanna pressley and colorado attorney general phil weiser joined me to discuss the ways in which congress and the states can defend against elon musk's unprecedented power grab inside unprecedented power grab inside the federal government. —hi! —hi! ♪♪ chocolate fundraiser. ♪♪

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operatives have gained access to critical it systems and databases belonging to the federal government. and with this trove of sensitive data, they now wield unprecedented power over america's bureaucratic infrastructure and over us everyday americans because they potentially have access to personal details, including social security numbers, banking details, health payment systems, home addresses and the money that you get from the government. doge has gained access to data systems within the us treasury department, the department of education, the office of personnel management, the consumer financial protection bureau. they have at least tried to gain access to the department of labor's systems as well. president trump and elon musk have asserted that they created doge, the so-called department of government efficiency, which is not an actual government department to root out government waste. but zoom out for a moment and look at what's actually unfolding. the president and an unelected billionaire are targeting

whichever key agencies they please, according to reuters. musk, trump, trump's top campaign donor, seeks to create a new power base, granting the trump administration direct control over systems that have historically been nonpartisan, which means corporate interests can actually override democratic principles and the will of the american people. in the case of congressionally approved funding, congressionally approved funding that's in the constitution. it's troubling enough that doge has access to all the sensitive data. but think about what could break in the process of all it all tinkering with vast technical apparatus that dwarfs anything that these young doge minions who are between the ages of 19 and 25. elon musk's gang dwarfing anything they've worked on before. imagine payment systems going down, blocking access to medicaid reimbursements, tax refunds, social security benefits. so far, the white house maintains that this young cadre of engineers has read only access.

like when you're in a google doc, you know you can either read it or you have edit privileges. in theory, read access means they cannot make changes to the underlying codes or affect any payments or delete anything. but sources tell wired and talking points memo that these operatives have actually been granted write access to some of these systems, allowing them to make structural changes to the systems themselves. nbc news has not independently confirmed that reporting. now, in response to the sweeping consolidation of power, a flurry of lawsuits have been filed by labor unions, by public interest groups and by state attorneys general. as of today, there are at least five ongoing federal lawsuits challenging doj's actions, with judges across the country pushing back against musk. just hours ago, a federal judge issued an emergency order temporarily blocking doj's access to the treasury department's databases, warning of a risk, quote of irreparable harm. this is important for a lot of reasons. i heard it said

the other day, you can't unring this bell. the judge ordered that any officials who are granted access to the system since january 20th must, quote, destroy any and all copies of material downloaded from the treasury department's records and systems, end quote. he also barred the federal government from granting further access to doj's operatives, and this order came in response to a lawsuit filed by 19 state attorneys general accusing the president of failing to faithfully execute the nation's laws by allowing doj's unfettered access to government computer systems. and yesterday, judge carl nichols, a trump appointee, blocked a plan to pay to place 2200 usaid. this is the us agency for international development staff on paid leave following a lawsuit by a federal employees union, which called trump's efforts to dismantle the agency without congress's permission unconstitutional, unconstitutional and illegal. meanwhile, the university of southern of california students

association has sued the department of education, accusing doge of illegally accessing sensitive personal and financial information of about 42 million federal student loan borrowers. what do they want with all this information? a federal judge on friday declined to block doge from accessing department of labor data, ruling that the plaintiffs had failed to establish standing, which is a question unto itself. on wednesday, protests erupted in all 50 states, including one outside the department of education protesters led by federal workers and their labor unions have been joined by a number of democratic lawmakers, including my next guest, congresswoman ayanna pressley, who joined hundreds of demonstrators outside the treasury department on wednesday. ayanna pressley, who serves on the financial services and oversight and government reform committees, joins me now. congresswoman, thank you for being with us. i just i want to be clear, i've talked to a number of your colleagues in the last couple of days. i want to

be clear that elections have consequences, and you can disagree with the policy prescriptions and goals of, of a particular administration. but your responsibilities as a member of congress are outlined in the united states constitution in article one. your responsibility to appropriate money and distribute it is a constitutional responsibility. i'm not sure where the fuzziness is around here. elon musk and his people have no business in the systems of our government. >> that's right. elon musk is unelected, unaccountable. he's a greedy, greedy billionaire. >> a self-interested with foreign. >> entanglements, and. he should not be accessing the. american people's private information and data. you know, he's in he's got his hands, his grubby hands on meemaw and granddad's social security information. no private citizen should be accessing a social security information, medicare payments, your tax refund. and that's why, you know, we have to match their

energy. that's why, as a member of the committee on oversight and reform, i was there in front of the treasury building conducting some real time oversight. we are a co-equal branch of government in congress on the oversight committee. it's our job to hold federal agencies and the government accountable. where there is corruption, where there is abuse, where there is fraud. and what we are experiencing is a power grab. it is a constitutional crisis. it means wholesale harm for everyone who calls this country home. so we have to litigate, we have to legislate, we have to agitate. we have to organize peacefully in these streets. so they're going to see us in the courts, in congress, and in the streets. and i just hope i don't even feel like i can call it a republican party anymore, because it's really operating much more like a cult of cowards. if there are any republicans that will center the american people and join us in supporting our legislation that we've introduced, our leader, hakeem jeffries, the taxpayer data protection act, to protect people's data. you know, they're not centering the american

people. and i'm sure trump's fragile ego had a problem with elon musk on the front cover of time magazine there. but he's operating as a as a co-president. he was elected by no. one. he was this is not normal. this is not normal. and we cannot act as if business conduct business as if it is normal and there should be no cooperation. the senate should not be confirming. senate democrats should not be confirming any nominees. >> yeah, it's a real departure for all of history. there have been democrats and republicans in recent american history, and they've disagreed on things. but no one worried that the social security checks weren't going to go out, or that the government employees weren't going to get paid, or, i mean, obviously in government shutdowns, we do. but generally you're supposed to trust that the back end systems work. so when they talk about getting rid of these government departments, people don't know what to say to protest about usaid because we don't even know what they do in some cases, because it works. they do what they do. republicans and

democrats alike have funded these programs, have had these departments stay open. if there's a reason to get rid of departments or make them more efficient, that conversation should be happening with you. you should be holding hearings and you should be talking to the american people about it. >> absolutely. again, congress is a co-equal branch of government, and you cannot unilaterally dissolve or dismantle an agency without coming to congress. and that's exactly what they're trying to do with usaid. it's exactly what they're trying to do with the department of education. again, it is an unprecedented power grab. it is a constitutional crisis. we have to match their energy in the courts, in congress, and peacefully in the streets. and so we cannot move as if this is business as usual, because this ain't normal. >> it is definitely not normal. democratic representative ayanna pressley of massachusetts, thanks for being with us this morning. and joining me now is the colorado attorney general, phil weiser. he's one of 19 state attorneys general to sue over doj's access to government data. a judge has since temporarily blocked doj's access

to the treasury department's databases in response to this lawsuit. lawsuit. attorney general, thank you for joining us. your lawsuit is relatively uncomplicated and fairly straightforward. tell us what it is you are suing to get done. and this this response by by the judge. >> basically people who didn't go through security checks, who weren't trained got access to sensitive, confidential information that they're. able to. potentially share it, have it risked being. disclosed to who knows whom. and that's something the american people are deeply concerned about. we got more calls in our office about this issue than any other issue. in six years of my time as attorney general. the american people deserve systems that work that protect their privacy. and as you've been talking about, our constitutional system of government means the executive branch has to faithfully execute the laws, not rewrite them, not undermine programs in whimsy

ways. and what now? what we're seeing right now is a real test of our republic. are we going to be a nation of laws? are we going to have the rule of law or the rule of whim? >> this is not a complicated legal matter, which is interesting to me because the power of appropriation lies with congress. we actually have a system in which you can debate things, and if you are the majority in congress, you can get your way and pass the laws you want. there's really no need for elon musk and his unauthorized people to be in these systems. there's a way to do this. if republicans want to cut certain things, there's a methodology by which they can do it, and they have to be addressable. they have to be answerable to their voters. it's almost feels like they're skipping accountability to the public by having this band of merry minions do this. >> it's all about what the mission is. and i worked in the clinton administration. i worked in the obama administration. there was a reinvented government that al gore led, which asked questions how do we

better contract to save the government money? under obama, there was a u.s. digital service. how do we make sure our systems are working? that's within the mission of how do we make government work more effectively, more efficiently? what we're talking about here is potentially breaking how government works, undermining how government works, and people who haven't gone through the basic protections to ensure that our data is safe are getting access to it. that's why the judge acted so quickly, said our claims were extremely strong and went ahead to prevent this information from being accessed and, as you noted, requires it now to be destroyed. this is a moment where we need to protect our republic, to make sure we operate faithfully to the laws, and we don't do what you put. well, a bell that can't be unrung you take this information and you stop it from being used properly. people don't get their social security checks. people's private information gets used in ways that can undermine their safety. this is a critical

moment to stand up for a government that works for the people and doesn't get in ways that are illegal and harmful. >> so i want to talk about that bell being unrung there. probably if you survey 12 out of ten, people will tell you, oh, sure, they're going to not use that information or they're not going to save it or they're not going to copy it or whatever. you know, the judge said they have to do. i just want to remind people now that a judge has said so for the moment, it would be a federal crime for them to retain that information or copy it or distribute it or save it. so worth knowing, as we go through this legal process, that these things have consequences. if, as this works its way through the court, this is no longer at elon musk's whim to do what he wants with this information. >> this is really important. and sadly, we have another litigation going on around the unilateral funding cuts where a coalition of state ags once again said the federal government needs to operate under law. the president is not a king, and the president can't say, i'm going to stop these public safety programs doing drug interdiction, or i'm going to stop giving aid to victims of

domestic violence. those are congressionally mandated programs. and the federal government was threatening to stop funding them. a judge says, no, you can't do that. then there's evidence that it's actually still happening. these portals for the funding apparently aren't as free and easy to access as they should be. so we're back in court with a contempt motion on that issue. we may have to be back in court on this issue with the contempt motion. this is not how government should be functioning. there are clear rules and guidelines. all we're asking is that we follow the rules and that we make sure the government works for people. >> and important to note that whether it's the birthright citizenship or it's the federal funding freeze or it's this in all cases, there's a constitutional argument here. it's not it's not a bunch of attorney generals just not being happy about the way things are going. good to see you again, colorado attorney general phil weiser. all right. coming up, i'm going to talk to one of the student plaintiffs suing idaho over the state's book banning law. an important meeting of the law. an important meeting of the book ban book club is next.

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formulated for high absorption and is gentle on the stomach. kunal, the brand i trust. >> as you know, for years here on velshi, we've covered book banning and the ongoing fight against book bans in this nation. and while we hate to see this growing wave of censorship sweep the nation, we love to see people fighting back. in fact, this week, two teenagers, a handful of authors, a tiny public library and the nation's largest publishers filed a lawsuit against the state of idaho, pushing back against the state's book ban, which went into effect last summer. last year, idaho passed hb 710. it's a law that restricts books from both public and school libraries. the law forbids minors, anyone under the age of 18, from accessing books with content that the state has deemed, quote, harmful to minors, end quote. notably, the law doesn't distinguish between a 17 year old and a toddler, forcing libraries to hold high school seniors and babies to the

same standard of maturity. the ban applies to many sellers, many bestsellers, classics and previous. velshi banned book club features like kurt vonnegut's slaughterhouse-five, toni morrison's the bluest eye, margaret atwood's the handmaid's tale, maya angelou's i know why the caged bird sings, george r.r. martin's game of thrones, judy blume's forever. the ban has an impact on nonfiction books, restricting kids and teens from books about puberty and body changes, which every young person is going to go through. penguin random house, one of the plaintiffs in the suit, says the ban affects some history books as well and could restrict minors access to books about the holocaust and other major historical events. in fact, no book is safe because under the law, any single person in the community can complain about any single book whose message they disagree. by claiming the book falls within the law's vague definition of harmful. idaho's law also creates an incentive for

individuals to report their local or school libraries for violating that law. any person who believes they find material harmful to minors may submit written notice to that institution, and if the library fails to remove or restrict that material, legal action can be taken against them. what's happening is that libraries are being forced to take books off the shelves altogether, or restrict minors access by sequestering the books, making cordoned off adult only sections in a public library. one small library in idaho had to close its doors altogether. another was forced to become a fully adults only library, a library that excludes kids and teens. after a quick break, i'm going to speak to one of the teenagers who is suing the state of idaho. who is suing the state of idaho. we'll be right back. where ya headed? susan: where am i headed? am i just gonna take what the markets gives me? no. i can do some research. ya know, that's backed by j.p. morgan's leading strategists like us. when you want to invest with more confidence...

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>> a huge relief. >> to see if you qualify, go to irokotv. >> before the break, i told you about a law in idaho that requires public and school libraries to remove or restrict materials deemed, quote, harmful to minors. this week, two teenagers, a handful of authors, a tiny public library and some of the nation's largest publishers filed a lawsuit against the state of idaho. joining me now is one of those remarkable teenagers, 17 year old jerick edwardson. jerick welcome to the velshi banned book club i'm guessing right now. but i think you might be the newest the youngest member of it. so thank you. and first of all congratulations. when i was 17 i was up to virtually no

good. you got a lot of stuff to do in your life, a lot of things going to be more fun and probably a lot of schoolwork. what got you involved in this case? >> yeah. >> so i. >> got involved. >> because i was reached out to by our school librarian who put me in contact with the. >> team. >> and we got together and we started talking, and we just talked about how hypocritical this law is. you know, there's no distinction, like you said earlier, about someone my age at 17 and someone who's six. and so where where are we supposed to go with that? you know. >> in fact, it's a conversation we have with a lot of our authors where people say, no, you know, little kids shouldn't be reading this book. and the authors were great. it's like, yeah, little kids probably shouldn't be reading the book. there is a distinction between a

17 year old and a 13 year old and a seven year old, and you want to be able to access the material that's that's suitable to you. you're you're you're like me, you're a journalist. you're the editor in chief of your school's newspaper. you've self published three books of poetry. you're a bookworm. so tell me how this feels to you. >> you know, i think it's disheartening in all honesty. i mean, you know, in my role at my school paper, the bengals fir, we use books for research, for our articles, for our opinions, our news articles. and as an aspiring author, it's disheartening, again, because if someone doesn't agree with what i put in my poetry or any writing of mine, they can go and get removed and that loses so much. readers, you know. >> let's talk about the most inspiring part about all of this. i mean, i hate book bans, but i love that i meet people like you and that people like

you in their communities across this country have figured out ways to take action. so. so do this for me, for all of our members out there who are watching, who really worry about these book bans, what do you want people to do about them in their communities? >> i think the most important thing is to speak out about it. i mean, if we're not talking about how hypocritical and how unjust these laws are, and it doesn't spread, the information doesn't spread, we're not going to be able to fight against it, because the main part of fighting against a law is public perception. to. >> so in fact, that's the point, right? if book banning succeeds and we've read books about this like fahrenheit 451, if it succeeds, it becomes acceptable. people don't know to fight about it. so by you, i mean, this is a kind of a miraculous lawsuit. it's you, another high schooler, a little library, and then suddenly the country's biggest publishing houses are also getting involved. so this has

some, some, some meat to it. >> yeah. i think it's great that penguin and the, the others joined, you know, let me join and let the others join with them. i mean, the case is stronger with us. we are the boots on the ground here in idaho. >> well. >> i love that you're doing it. thank you for doing it. good luck. i hope to i hope to have you visit us again on the banned book club. i'm not hoping that you write a book that gets banned because that's not good. but you're you're a member now and you're always welcome to join us. we'll stay very closely connected with you as this case proceeds. derek edwardson is one of the student plaintiffs in the idaho library lawsuit, and that does it for me. thank you for watching today. catch me back here tomorrow morning from 10 a.m. to noon eastern. remember, the show is available as a podcast so you can follow and listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. i think if you

scan that thing on the screen, that's how you'll be able to get the podcast. i've never actually done that myself, but that's what they tell me. you can also find velshi content on youtube. you can head to msnbc, .com, slash, ali and this blue sky thing i was telling you about. i think we're going to we're going to put another bar code on the screen. if you scan that, it'll take you right to my blue sky page. and you can find me on on blue sky again. all you have to do is scan the barcode with your phone. it takes you right there. you can follow me on threads, you can follow me on linkedin and mastodon. i post there daily. stay right where you are. the katie phang show begins right now. >> this is. >> the katie phang. >> show live from msnbc. world headquarters. in new york city. >> democracy in disarray. convicted felon donald. >> trump's unrelenting flurry of. >> executive actions are creating. >> chaos and. >> confusion as. >> democrats struggle to unite behind a coherent message. >> plus. >> holding the line, federal.