for us, it's really, really important to, to make choices about these things ourselves. the thing is that the know each and curriculum has a very important main topic. that's democracy and citizenship. and we are teaching in with the law on the, on one hand, the law against hate speech. and in the right. and we have the human rights on the other hand rights. so we have to menu over in, in between them. and for us, we will have to find a way to achieve, to develop the students' skills and their and ability to, to read attacks with a critical ma and, and i think we can do that even though we're not showing the east specific pictures . that's been your news breakdown for this hour. that's for tuning in wherever you may be.

imagine or times you were going underground after repeated aerial bombardment of syria by israel armed by britain e.u. nations in the united states coming up in the show. we ask a former middle east based m i 6 agent whether a joe biden presidency signals a new road to damascus and the renewal of isis al qaeda and u.k. u.s. . the u.s. attempts at regime change in syria, even during a global pandemic, and what bloodshed to expect from obama officials accused of facilitating civilian

drone killing and the destruction of libya, africa's richest per capita country. and as an inquiry launches in, rumania after a coronavirus intensive care units that fire and kills 10, we investigate oscar tipped film collective with its echoes of el edged incendiary profit driven corruption for which an inquiry continues here in london into the grenfell fire in the poorest area of one of the richest in the world. all this more coming up in today's going underground, the football star, diego maradona being mourned today around the world. not only once said in my heart, i am palestinian. he declared the motives of western powers in syria was to destroy a secular nation hours before he died. warplanes from israel by britain, even nations, and the us a bomb, the oldest, continuously inhabited city in the world, damascus. joining me now from room is the conflict forums, alister crook, who cut his teeth at m i. 6. and since the siege of bethlehem has dedicated his life to deescalating violence. alice jeff, thanks so much for coming on going underground. i think it's a 1st time, although we don't choose the right before. just how do you explain the fact that

during a pandemic we know antonio good terrorism. he wanted a worldwide ceasefire. why was there this barrel of aerial bombardment from the israeli air force on damascus? and this happening as we hear netanyahu going to saudi arabia denied by the saudis, and antony blinken. this old obama era official being selected by joe biden to be the next secretary of state. is what i think her principal, the main aim and this at the moment and the main aim that netanyahu had, i think, with these visit to saudi arabia, kmiec m.b.'s, the crown prince. the 1st priority for relief for israel is to get iran put at the top of the agenda for the administration. the same coming administration will have many other domestic issues to deal with. it's not clear whether they will control the senate or not. it's not clear they'll get their

agenda through and he wants to put iran really sort of front and center. so this is a way of calling attention to it. calling attention to iran, if you like, what he would term adverse regional role. and i think the other aspect of what's going on is to sort of heighten the tensions because the railroad was the main reason i think for the visit to saudi arabia was to agree a few reichen agenda with the saudis, about iraq. where are we going to stand and iraq? i mean, i think, i mean, so this isn't this character tony blinken has previously said about talk about regime change in syria and the renewal of that. but do you expect this is very much because of lincoln and biden support for the j. c. p. o, a nuclear agreement with iran, some type of attempt at for stalling

a resumption of that agreement? yes i took, i think what they were doing is you know, you have at one end of the sort of spectrum, you've got a bomb, a sort of project. and then at the other end you have the 12 conditions, maximalist conditions laid down by pompei oh. and i guess they feel in israel and the state and saudi arabia that it's, will be closer to the end of the spectrum, closer to the a bomb, a with a few changes on sectoral as is another things like where is netanyahu probably want to sit as close as possible to the erection, to the maximalist position that laid out in it in his conditionality, but talks with iran are engaging with iran and somewhere in between the true dale hogg to me. but i think actually it's unlikely they will meet. i think what they would doing in saudi arabia was fixing a very tough agenda for the united states. negotiated if there are

negotiations with iran. iran has said very clearly, it's not going to negotiate toll until america comes back into compliance with the j. c. p. o 8, and sorry, if said the only way to do that is he's got to comment. they've got to come in line with the security council resolution 2231 which falls into it if you write that text. so he says, if you can come in with that and be get rid of all of the sanctions, all of the adverse things have happened since you can do it through executive orders. then maybe we can talk. but i think that speech by zarif met the degree of criticism him back in iran. fall saying that larry from is an old friend of biden, knows him quite well from his time when he was in new york and feels as a personal chemistry. but i don't think that that's really likely to take it very

far. and at the moment, washington is putting on its new sanctions. they promised sanctions every week. but what's different, what's important about these sanctions is that these are not sanctions on the nuclear issues. these are making inskeep type sanctions. i think she is dealing with human rights violations and both of them out of but not the nuclear issues and closer to god. i have my sanctions by the german ministration, of course. neither of the ministration tone drunk, of course, believes the we won the election, but a bit damp. so who is going to win? and just he explained, so are israel or as you, we believe israel when it says that it's destroying iranian targets in syria and, and wine. why is there be no so-called, mainstream media reporting of ass strikes on the capital city of

a major country in the middle east or mainstream reporter these days has for all the sort of rather eccentric, certainly in terms of the united states. i mean large elements of what's happening in the world are just not reported to do nothing with the b.b.c. here in britain either. not, no, no, i know, but they're all, they're all following this again, her up items women coming in and it's going to be, you know, back to back to the office chair. but i think that actually what's happening with iran is that biden is over, baby is asking for too much from the us. and he's saying he wants to bring in all of the gulf states, saudi arabia. israel must be, must be in agreement with that. the israeli ambassador said the combi an agreement, unless israel is at the table, they want to get rid of the sunset cross'. they want to change other aspects of it

. i'm not sure that iran will do that, so they've made it very clear. they don't want to and what's changed is iran has new options as russia and china. more that the american administration of mr. trump attacked china and russia. so the closer that has brought them to iraq. iran has a pivotal in the planning both of russia and of china. and china has been investing large resources in europe in iran, quietly, but substantial resources on roll way live in some old, poor korea, stablish months, refurbishing an oil field and so on. so i think, you know, iran can look east, it doesn't have to look to america at this very time. china has just opened a new market in the, nor the regional economic partnership with 2200000000 people, one 3rd of global g n. i mean

a market because of the european union sooner rather. so you really think that the threat of 3rd party so-called 3rd party in the illegal us sanctions is just doesn't work anymore. threatening. companies that do trade with washington and, and nato is perceived enemies. oh, it works with some european companies, i mean, look what's happened to the, or a fair in attempts to try and get some sort of arrangement for trade with iran. all of the, i mean, certainly all of the banks and european insurance companies get frightened by the threat of american sanctions. but the world is a very different place from 4 years ago. america is not seen as a natural, they're sure. i know that biden talks and putting come by the way, it always says, i mean it's favorite. catchphrase has always been the world is very bad, itself organizing. that's why america has to organize it or it and i don't think

those days exist. i don't think russia or china and the rest of the well are just waiting for direction or islands. biden said, you know, to take their seat at the talk to able at the top of the table and to give it the instructions for the world. they see what's happened during the selection. they see that the american polity is hopelessly divided. they see the konami can try natural crisis. that is taking place even as the stock market is soaring. they know that this is not a good place to be. iran is, is not if you are right in this respect and does have now all other things and will it give up its sovereignty, which would be certainly the sort of sum total of the demands that will be made by washington. i mean, you know, this will be, we're dollar amount of saddam hussein's. you know, the americans insisting that they had to inspect his bedroom and his bathroom,

which he blinken has previous on this because the he was part of the destruction of africa's riches. but haven't country and libya i mean, even gave, you're not lucky enough to be here. rein in as it were. and what happens if you are against israeli violations of un security council? resolutions? i mean has, will or m.p.'s democratically elected as well or in bees in beirut. and i used to live in beirut, then there sanctioned by the european union. any change for red has winner or i mean, even for normal activists who support palestine a bit about of the blinken says the media. yes. the boycott divestment sanctions campaign is his anti semitic? yes, i think they're going to, they're going to put that into legislation. no, i don't think so. i think biden is a zionist has always been is on the brink, and it is his parents who choose jewish. his step father was holocaust

survivor. i don't think we're going to see my change and have tracked in israel. they're almost sort of welcoming it sigh. one person summed it up in this way and he said look, you know, bamma. he was just too rational. he didn't have the feel for the region a tool. whereas in their view, biden kemal are as who but as a sign, as they feel our emotions, they understand our emotions, the emotional landscape much better for israel and quite different than it was under obama. so i don't think we should look for and think any big changes i rivera, much regret, and i gives me no pleasure in saying it. but i can see, i mean, i know the palestinian authority is now gone back in to security coordination with

israel. and that they will review payments to prisoners, families and things like that. but you know, the, the reality is there's no peace policy. and israel, if netanyahu something happened to netanyahu, there wouldn't be a peace body. it would be more likely to be the hard, right. the orthodox and the far right in israel. if not, not, will not be in power. that will be the, if you like, the key swing voters and then the future political set up in israel. so it's, it's moved far to the right. no one is thinking of a political solution from the palestinians within israel at the moment, and the palace, me on this, really have a few cards which to play the gulf states of now shifted. saudi arabia will, sooner or later, i guess. and europe just doesn't have, i think the will to play the set too excited by points election and dreaming that

it's all going to be a return to the good old atlantis's of the past. i think they're mistaken as a current. thank you. thank you very much. in the after the break, as a fire kills 10 with coronavirus of an intensive care unit in nature, a member rumania. what is the level of neo liberal corruption in the former moscow aligned states, the director of all scripted film collective about remaining years previous west, tells us about profit driven corruption that echoes testimony heard this week about britain's worst tower inferno, austerity emblem, grenfell going underground. seem wrong. just don't get to shape

out, educate and engagement because the trail went on, find themselves worlds apart. we choose to look for common ground. welcome back. an inquiry has been launched in nato member rumania, to determine how 10 patients suffering from co in 1000 were killed by a fire in a public hospital is the deadliest fighting 2015 when hundreds of people were killed or injured at the collective night club in bucharest, echoing allegations made against authorities here in london about the grenfell fire . a new oscar attempt to remain in film explores have political corruption, big pharma, and the state work together to line pockets while the suffering or arguably crushed . collective has been dubbed the best film about journalism since all the president's men and its director, alexander now joins me now from the roumanian capital book,

arrested xander. thanks so much. rain has been in the news. not adjust for the terrible fire. also for $3900000.00 on patriot missiles, there's an inquiry going on here into a fire, which killed $72.00, people in the poorest area of one of the richest on earth in west london. tell me about the fire in your new film. thanks for having me. 1st of all the fire in the collective clots happened during a concert. it was the collective judgment because many people went to concerts and then the students. and that's why rules such a national tragedy have a shot because the club had no liar exits, but it was nevertheless tourists. because i did partment mairi and that led to the assumption that corruption must have been articles or ization. and the way when you watch the film, sorry to interrupt there, but when you watch the film, you think that's the way that's the angle,

the journalists are going to go on. but it's different. it's different because basically the most horrible thing after these accident the lenses of many people was the fact that the old or these lives and the remaining health care system and take care of them were victims which were over 180, which was a big manipulation lie because really didn't know how early in its and that the one they had was as you see, but still not in a condition to treat anybody patient for a while. and they prohibited everybody to be flown out to bring units and not easily. and instead, many people died of hospital infections because our hospitals are really have to mostly actions in europe,

especially now when we put our faith in the big pharmaceutical companies to produce, that seems we are all hoping that they succeed in finding solutions to work overhead. it turns out that they were dying from infections, partly because of what a pharmaceutical company was doing to disinfectant. exactly. then stan started balling thing and that's what to do lists, investigate it. there it was. one company called texas are who are they looting it's disinfectants and was distributing this? does it sentence him to 350 hunters or a media and want us to lose my knowledge is that the politicians and the health care of patients not only knew, but it seems that everybody was august. this fraud scheme will lie in the respect. that's what is hospitals that are already being yanked here they can imagine if you can a 30 i thought that if you fit into

your hating that you know me right now, the thought of it or not rule out any talk on doing 80 or 90 9 out of i think that by playing on my own interest, i know it's beyond the scope of the film. and what did you make of the reports that have similar dilutions, all of important medicines like that were being used on romanian soldiers in the age of operations. exactly the same. the same disinfectants from texas pharma were also delivered by the remaining government for their own needs. or mission with other countries. so not only are a 1000000 soldiers were getting treated, you know, into operation cancer is actually pharma, but also shoulders of other native countries. he, when there was

a fire here in london, the person who was associated linked with it was made a lord in your film. you have a character who obviously real cause if so it's a real, it's dramatic, obviously than the film of yours. you have a health minister that actually they make progress and action actually happens because of war of the tragedy. and because of the corruption, we've not seen that here in britain because we have an ongoing inquiry. tell me about how action came to happen in the wake of the fire and the uncovering of corruption. the only way it happened is that there were the minister of house that was appointed after the journalist got a wonder that was trying to cover the company. was of a lot harder when the political party, so he was nonpolitical and that's why he had the courage to start before. now what you described in the beginning, what happened was the hospital and go with patients fighting a fire in

a hospital. that hospital had had 8 managers in the last 10 months. so the political parties basically just erase everything that this young man had done as a muse or oath. and you know, they just appoint their managers into the hospitals to steal the money. and right now, for example, this young minister of health is part of a reformatory party that existence 2 years, rumania, and they do whatever they can to block him out of the media. so that he does cannot, you know, talk about anti-corruption and reforming the health care system because i don't to give away the film or the ending of the veil. madame, the film is very optimistic in terms of the way people together can fight corruption. and what happened to the 3, go ahead there are many stories very optimistic about a collective because while the political class did not change at all,

the civil society changed totally. and we had a very strong 2 society. and in the last 2 years, the civil society was donations from citizens and donations from the band. metallica that donated a quarter 1000000 euro, or build a hospital, a really big, great, modern hospital for cancer, treatment, and inability to years just to show the government the lie that it cannot. it's possible that since the early years, once feel a little cannot be sustained. it's ok with crucial to the our story is the presence of whistleblowers. now you might know that and whistleblower chelsea manning in the united states is a different case. he was imprisoned and tortured in the us. julian assange, he's in jail just near this studio. how did whistleblowers in romania have the courage to come forward and why were they not persecuted for revealing the truth about the collective other? because they told the truth, that it was proven by the journalists to be right. the journalists proved it with

documents. i'm not going to throw water on my little bit of political people. i just heard you from going to put out a, you know, it would you for them of you were shocked at that you have a point in fact, the only ones that even the impact be the youth. and if people watch, is it your cue to lock up and going to sleep into my pretty close view of the in part a little. but why did the government not persecute the journalists to cover up the truth? like it has done arguably, and they try and atreides, but just for you to understand the level of implication in the reading state. after too late 5 years article expired, there were 12 court cases opened, including everything you see in the film. group, hospital manager of you know, the politicians that lied possibly. where is the lie that they can treat a patient which left. the club owner is not a single case, was full until today. it's not

a single case in 5 years. so is it being confident of the corruption itself? because over there and in the film, the documentation is not destroyed. here are going to be documentation is often destroyed. in fact, at the grenfell firing choir. we've heard testimony about evidence being destroyed . oh, it's different because for exam, what they do in the case of the patients, the kind of infections instead of their injuries, once the bases were flown out because of the present again, to begin to start to die. what the doctors that in the hospital managers, they erased from their files the later that they were effected. so basically when they arrived in our hospitals, in england, there were a lot of people treated in your consulate in europe, in brussels, in, in austria. the doctors there didn't know the infected so many took them off the medication or inventions and some bite. you know what else are disturbing about the dilution of disinfectant and that american scenes in this documentary about the

lethal impact of that is that it's clearly for profit on their part of the pharmaceutical company in britain over many years where they're trying to create more and more private health care been having their private health care create competition and that is good for healthcare. or what do you think the lessons about for profit health care from your documentary? i see that the universal health care is grades and it can work when we see it in other countries, privacy in germany, it does work, it doesn't have to be totally privatized, but the competition is never banned. it is controlled. it should not be like in america where when you broke in are you break an arm, you have to pay $10000.00. that's ridiculous. but you cannot have universal health care is governments that steal the way they steal. now has your own government

stealing nawas will investigations going on during the korean crisis and they spend all the money. and they're and you need a very strong judicial system to keep things in balance. and that's one of the main problems. only just systems are not able anymore to go after people. our dad steal our public money. obviously the british government denies corruption in its response to corona virus. it does that repeatedly, but of course we have a much worse by capita coronavirus death toll in this country. than in rumania, tell me how, maybe even the collective experience and the journalists, exposing what happened may be helping the health system cope with coronavirus in your country. it's hard to say, i mean what i can say, and what they know from journalists is that after we released the film, the number of whistleblowers for the journalists went up, i think, 10 times a day. so people are coming forward and people start to,

to unveil the corruption in the difference to state institutions over the hospitals. unfortunately, the government right now is still denying that there are the media, has hospital infections, which is scientifically nonsense. every country has hospital infections and right now it is that the hospitals remain over 90 percent of the injured babies. patients died most probably off to hospital infections. well we invite the romanian as in london on the program. just finally, as a filmmaker i wanted to feel like when you caught on film, one of the people in your documentary saying we are no longer human. we only care about money. about remained. it's an understatement. it's a complete understatement. see the lack of humanity. there is right in the healthcare system that is leading well, it's expensive corruption. and as you say,

your government says there's no corruption. they say there will be investigations going on in the garden and it will get a paper destroyed about money. i was on a thank you and collective is out now on digital platforms in the ground fire inquiry in london takes a break today that's over the show. we're back on wednesday 10 years since revelations in the u.k. guardian accused now of defaming its journalist julian, a son jimmy joe biden accused the wiki leaks founder of being a high tech terrorist. and as others argued for an obama drone strike on the father of 2, now being tortured in london, according to the un until then join the underground on you tube, twitter sound, instagram and facebook.

the french president's party drops a bill that would have respected the filming of police officers after weeks of nationwide protests. middle east nations, condemn the killing of iran's top nuclear scientist as terror on claims. israel, i don't think u.s. creating a major challenge for the incoming by the administration. your own of guantanamo a rights report says, hundreds of i still found me about those with european citizenship are being held in, inhumane conditions. just controlled refugee camps, syria.