the of the the the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered. and peter level,

donald trump risk repeating jo biden's disasters and gaza allowing genocide he returned to office claiming to be a peacemaker trumps of words and actions about gods that demonstrate the opposite. what donald trump does now will define his presidency and legacy, the cross talking guys, i'm joined by my guess what i'm in mirandi until around is a professor at the university of the run in rome. we have romano roberto, she is an author and the managing editor of the palestine chronicle. and in toronto, we cross esteban carrillo lopez. he is a news desk editor at the cradle. all right, cross type roles and effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciated while i'm in monday and towed in. what is trumps gambit here? because in all of us, obviously have made it a point in our lives to follow the tragedy that unfold. unfolded in palestine and

you know, trump in, in a few days of is new presidency, has with seamlessly adopted israel's policy of, of expulsion and ethnic cleansing seamlessly, all the 2 state solution stuff and all oswell and cam day. all that stuff. it's gone. and to top it all off is a recognition that there is no such thing as a palestinian. he's come so far to go so far backwards mohammed i personally and i may be wrong. i think that tom still wants to seize, hold and selfish interest. and so i'm guessing, and i may be completely wrong that uh, it's rarely redeem, we'll have to make concessions from its and move away from its maximum of this approach. and the 2nd phase will probably go ahead,

but whether that's correct or not, a top has done a huge damage to the united states by pacing this position. he's gain the patriot people across the region and beyond. because the policy, an issue is not an issue for us or for muslims. it is a humanitarian issue. and we've seen people from across the growth low, a support from east asia to west asia, north africa, south africa, north america, south of america. this is a global issue now and for him to support this is randy region which is carried out this trend aside has only harm the united states and its allies. and i think this is something that the underestimate. yeah. the in the regions that, you know, what i was gonna add onto, uh,

what i am agreeing with you completely is that it shows that the, the west is take, uh, revealed itself. the mask is off there we are, the, the, the west. they showing that it is a supporter of ethnic cleansing, of neil imperialism, neo colonialism. the if he shows it better for what it is, because even though the europeans protest, you know, they clutch their pearls, but they don't do anything about it. let's go to ramana and in rome, you know, you know, war ethnic cleansing and annexation is been the results of the zine, this project against the palestinians in palestine. but now it's being proposed as the solution. again, it's bit everything is been flipped and we can just move these people expel them, then there will be a, what does this someone call it? god, so largo i mean this it's, it would be funny if it wasn't so cringe. go ahead in room. yes. first of all,

we have to admit that this was the very intense, and i mean, trump is know what the lead speaking about it. but the intention was in different in the budget administration when they dropped all of these weapons to israel. when they gave green light and you know to everything, when you know drills we close doors, they were saying, please get treat her mouth, which actually means please get to read the policy. the people did is exactly what they were referring to. they wanted the ethnic cleansing, and even in terms of close circle with mariam edge or some for example, who do need an insane amount of money to trump, campaign is talking about to fire. of course she doesn't have in mind. just the piece for posting is what she has in mind if she could focus, recover the bethany of the hostages, and then shift focus and ethnic cleans uh, you know, to proceed with ethnic cleansing of got the impulse to be the west bank,

which is every good of the set of communion movement that she represents. but i want to say something about, i mean whoever, whomever thinks that the splint is feasible, either lying or is completely ignorant of history and geography. because, i mean, in 1948, we have seen hundreds of thousands of posting is moving to our countries and we know that, you know, our and countries are still dealing with that refugee crisis. how can we think that be split is feasible? first of all, from a practical point of view. so they go to gaza, immediately take posting is one by one because the posting a people have demonstrated that they have no intention of leading casa, and that their resistance has been strong and proud throughout the genocide. so this is the 1st thing, and even in the case of this scenario, is implementable, then arab countries truck made a miracle. i mean, for 16 months of countries as many are countries where shamefully assignment to

the genocide and keep, you know, just meet this miracle. they actually are standing up now of course we cannot be surprised when the king of jordan during the press conference, which seemed more like a truck then press conference, said, talked about you've national interests. he is right. he is thinking about you've national interest. you cannot accept a large amount of boasting use because he knows the it to be to discovery lising for his country. and even the same time, he cannot allow from to cross a certain threshold because that policy new cause is too important for his own people to yeah, well they, they, they, they enter the, the press, the conferences you're talking about, no, go to s about now in toronto that look more like a hostage video to me than anything else. it was really painful to watch here. but, i mean the s about a, is this a madman theory? i as tom saying, i have an idea is if it says, oh no idea,

this is what new it's going on since it leaves least 1948 even decades before expulsions. but is it, you know, come up with a better idea? give me a better idea, is this is tactic. is this, this negotiation approach? go ahead in toronto. well, i don't know. i would call it a negotiation. the seems more like blackmail inquire, streaming particular with the are of states right? with jordan, with egypt as long time allies in a bit of a warning to the others, right. especially to those who have normalized with these are all into one to normalize with these real like saudi arabia, by telling them what we are waiting to do with our allies. i think a, by trump, this is the 2nd term, you know, if he's, if he's going to be his last term you not based on unless there's a big change to the constitution other coming down the line here, which i feel like at this point we cannot do anything else, but the decision going to be his last time, you know, if his and it feels like he is approaching it that way, right. he wants to reshape not just the day that he wants to, to, to both the united states in

a different role. right. i think we saw that we medical reviews stating that this is no longer a uni butler world order. and you know, we're not going to be able to sanction the countries in 5 years. it seems like there's a lot of, of, of, of, of understanding in the term white house where, you know, a, the, the global quarter stands now. yeah. but in the savannah, i think there's something to what you're saying and i and, and some of that i agree with. i mean on the greenland thing, the canada thing, the panama, i get, i get the, i get that and we, and a way it's like the building or it's like it's like building fortress america, right? but then i'm going to throw now back to my home. it here, but they're still the is, is real exception. it see that's what makes it so we a logical go ahead mohammed. but that's exactly why i think fall is a good thing for the world because and we've had this discussion during his 1st

term multiple times on your show trunk shows the video base of the united states. i see, for example, of biden and obama is gone, as your guess, rightly pointed out, these policies of ethnic cleansing were being pursued under biden as well. and right now, so hit because it's so different, critical watching items of borders. joe, anything outrage or you are showing outrage of what trump statements when they were assisting with this god, this holocaust and god. so it says if removing the palestinians has outrages but killing them where they are, as all is fine. so in a sense, i find this, this whole narrative refreshing because it exposes the united and by the way, puts a lot of pressure on the pope pro western and pull american camp in the region. because these dictators, whether it's in jordan or egypt or even turkey, where ad on is continuing to sell it as oil to. and so ok, who cheat box a while to a nothing yahoo,

all of them are put on or under greater pressure when the united states speak fight this when the president speaks like this. but personally, i do agree that i think there's really regime is an exception. we know the reason why the powerful design this lobby in the united states is behind it. but in general, i think that actually this whole, this talk of greenland in canada and the panama canal is, is an attempt to create a dignified retreat for the united states. yeah, the united states can sort of back off and ukraine and bad cough and other places back down in other areas, but show itself to be stronger and read the economy. and mohammed going after people that can't defend themselves. a yeah. what, what is green when gonna say no, i me for, oh, yeah, germany might send troops, the u. k. may send troops. aaron. so what? okay. i that would be the one thing that us about brought up,

i think is really important before we go to the break. here, trump is an egomaniac. he's thinking very, very much about his legacy and how he wants to be seen. he wants to be put on mount rushmore. that is his goal. he wants to a peace prize because obama got one. and so i think that there is an enormous amount of overreach here, and we'll get to see it all over the next few days. you think that the the ceasefire will continue, even if it does, there's still the 3rd part and that's what we're going to talk about when we come back from the break. we're to go to that break, and after that break, we'll continue our discussion. our goal is to stay with our, to the the,

the, [000:00:00;00] the, to take a fresh look around as a life kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real live indians. fixtures, design to simplify will confuse really once a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this,

but can you see through their illusion going underground? can the best curtis curse them on the thing, you know, suspicion let us know. there's just some of the civil it was she sitting here thinking maybe as of right now she prefers her. so used to not so for transport. she thought she needs to be closer to, to be in charge of that to the high pump console to those since at what time, what time can i get you into the system and she's not on the phone. i'm kind of figure out the size of the site uses quicker diesel. i'm assuming that additional charges so who so so who's on

each angle? angle the so what do you use to, to what i say that it's available for most of your work and see that you can which is 2 days and then just what the 3 as soon as depth them losing judas, kansas job that i see you guys can get some rest of what the, what the child support the national that the risk of, of these getting civil machine. yeah. the the welcome back. the cross software. all things are considered. i'm peter real about your mind. you were discussing godsa the ok. let's go to another in rome. it's already been mentioned here, the normalization of relations between saudi arabia and israel. they,

the abraham process is it's called here, but there is a different normalization going on. and this is what trump is done. these normalized ethnic cleansing. okay. it said, you know, it has to be done. it just how it's done. that's this course is changed in that direction, but it is very, very dangerous. and because there's a, you have a, a extremely right wing government under nothing, you know, in israel, they're just tearing it on. and again, you know, maybe this is my interpretation. and i have to admit to all of you, i've talked to a lot of people since last tuesday, and there are a lot of different interpretations of what's going on here. but it is a donald trump, again in the united states is taking on all of the risk because it'd be, the americans insist that it must be cleaned out. and these rates just like, well, you know, that's what the americans want to do. i mean, it's passing the risk. go ahead and room. yes,

i do not know exactly what trump had in mind. i have to say that the character is unpredictable, especially when it comes to foreign policy. uh, but you know, doing that seems press conference on february 4th. so to be shocked, even nathan health seemed very shocked. honestly, it seemed that she was caught by surprise by the announcement and the, the to risk that i see in the plan that trump enunciated is more in the way it can be absorbed by these right. politics i treat i think that for example it on how which doesn't necessarily would benefit from discipline any way. because even the effect of feng, the united states, we take ownership of golf. they're not saying it's, well it's, we'll take ownership of the they're saying this is an american issue. this is a washington issue. so i do not think that even on the ground for is well, these actually enables was made and how has in mind. but in the same time,

it's on how immediately took advantage and tried to get the lifeline for his own political interest for for example, to regroup his extremist government. so now the year, for example, didn't stop screening since february 4th, please implement the plan. i would like to attend the year. the problem is not that they didn't try already, to se can be cleaned guides or they have been trying for 16 months. the problem for you is that they didn't manage, they didn't succeed in best plan. but in the meantime, you know, nathan held could take this in the extreme as government in these work and other political groups he needs what? because don't forget that actually basically, or main political parties. he needs to a totally agree on the ethnic, cleansing, of palestinians as a solution to the problem. so when we talk about extremism in these words, it's really very complicated and very complicated. a ground. yeah, well i,

as i say, i think it's a very narrow overton window. okay, exactly. okay. that's about and i mean, they were coming up uh this saturday about, uh, 3 hostages or hostages or all the hostages. they, you know, there's so many different takes, or you can interpret the way. what do you think they will go into the 2nd part of the ceasefire? because it seems like israel has, we've, i think all of us with our agreement, they never were on board for this. it was public political expediency at the time. i trump wanted it. he got, you know, he got the glory for it. the after glow is almost gone, but i don't see why is real would do it. i'm looking at the there are costs, which is they never talk about the palestinian hostages that are being held in jails in israel. is there a chance that this could be extended? i say i do believe there is a chance a i'm not sure if it's uh the how big of a chance there is. right? because there is these uh theres for a lot there is for warm or in the in did you wanna go or maintain these rarely as

uh, as your guys said, as it is really population itself. right. um, they, the gas a problem is not going to be resolved by allowing them to reveal this is the way that they see it, right? especially when you see email just of cassandra yates, we arm you and we these right new weapons, a setting up these stages setting up these, these, these as small parades, right? to showcase the 1st of all the hostages in the copy was really in english. i have barely been mistreated, the 2nd of all, but they're still in control, right? that they're literally coming out of the trenches and saying, look, you committed genocide on those for 15 months, you slap and gossip, and yet here we are. here we are still, and this is a reminder that these really, uh they, that he's real ender united states does not like to see. right, because it goes against everything that they have done and everything that they stand for and everything that they say. and now donald trump, this idea to ethnically cleansed a guy, so he's going to be sending us troops and band and very likely he's not going to be uh, he's not gonna be ready troops doing it. right. we're already seeing that he's ready troops. thank you. a lot of cbs, but they're not very successful at actually,

you know, and removing people from uh, from uh where their homes are. and so what are we talking about here? i think at the end of the day a, they're probably going to consider private military contractors, right. a mercenary companies like those that have already been putting in beats to come in and broaden the humanitarian songs inside of the gaza strip. so at the end of the day, what we're seeing today is really the depth of international law. the author of us can be said, this is what the united states end of trump presidency and dividing presidents as well. i'll tell you what i'd be more of a saw was doing, you know, you know, mohammed the, i think it as the bottom put it really just perfectly. this is the internet end of international law, international human and humanitarian law. and it's the way it's really pathetic about it is these were i is they came out of the west and now the west is rejected them. there's always an exception. okay. it shows the west and its true light. i mean how, what, what will happen during the 2nd stage here, i mean,

there still captives in israel is nothing. yeah. who going to, he's a, he does, he's never seem to have shown that have much interest in their fate. it's only because of the prodding of a people like donald trump and his donors go ahead mohammed again, i think that it isn't trumps interest for the 2nd phase to move forward. but regardless of what happens when trauma, as you alluded to the, the, the 3rd phase when he rejected the 3rd phase a few days ago. basically what he did was that he undermine the united states as a negotiator. so for example, right now the united states wants to negotiate with you've drawn it yet. but when the writing and see that united states as the guarantor of the ceasefire in gaza is now saying we don't want the 3rd phase. that means you cannot trust united states,

you cannot trust any deal that it proposes. and the same is remember not if it is rainy. regime violates the cease fire day night. murder is innocent people and the united states as a guarantor or the ceasefire, does nothing in that means. basically you cannot trust united states. and even though i do not believe in the rules base order for the very reason that you pointed out, that it was designed by the west and it serves their interests. and they constantly violated it because they saw themselves as exceptional. but in my opinion, it was in their interest and undermining this order. actually, while it is it, it, it creates great hardship in the west becomes more brutal and, and it shows it as a morality. but i think the collapse of this order is in the long run, a good thing, because it breaks the chains that the americans and the europeans have created for

the rest of the world. and there they can no longer behaving an exceptional manner . the rest of the world no longer sees itself for themselves as a restrained by this order which benefits the west. so in my opinion, in the long run, by, by violating the deal, by dismissing the 3rd phase by violating the rules base order, what truck and the united states are doing, or by tearing up the rules base order is that they're further undermining the position of the united states, even though in its short term being made, he or the united states may think that it benefits the you know, it's very into the last week on this program to my head, to my good guests. and i think um, i saw the future of this movement because they were deeply divided on trumps policy . when it comes to the gaza, i knew it was going to happen when you don't have power. you can say all kinds of

things. but now trump is in office and his movement is getting more and more divided over this. there's a part of his movement is just as appalled as we are. and there, you know, it's a lot like, you know, a steel tear up should be 17 percent or 25 percent. we're not talking about tariffs, we're talking about genocide and more and more people are beginning to realize that which side of history do you want to be on? and it's, it's good to divide his movement. that's why i said in my introduction, this is going to be determine his legacy. go ahead and roam to. yes, absolutely. and i mean, some doesn't act in a vacuum. of course, you have a lot of inferences. for example, last week there was a, in a letter from is where you revise sending him that she was the messenger for a good against evil. so, of course, he's acting in peace also in his own circle, which is, you know,

filled with extreme as design. if and cetera of colonial and people who do not accept that the word is indeed changing. and i fully agree with the fact that the legitimacy of the west is, you know, shaking. and this is something that they cannot deny. they cannot be, they can no longer deny. and you know, even the, the ease work itself, like the consequences of what happened in gaza. i think we will see them in the long run. evil has lost to deter, is misery, deterrence in the region and in cause i itself. and this is something that, you know, in the long run, we will see the consequences. but now they are particularly eager to show that there are still in control that, you know, there was to some degree of power. and these of course will be a stage in this process that it would be particularly atrocious for publishing and, and the policy and population. but it is undeniable that what's happening, garza, what's happened,

you never know what happened with iran truly have to end. and he said, we'll have to deal with that. that's about we have 40 seconds left, finish it off for us. you know, i just want to to, to follow by. 2 reminding people that there's organizations at this point that are moving forward with uh, with the lawsuit. seconds is randy war criminals, you know, like the cambridge out from nation or even day, the south africa's case against the agency. the international criminal court in which is going to open up a legal names for these are all to be accountable for his really needs to be accountable. and one would hope eventually even you when's leaders to be accountable for what they have allows to happen and are going we need to continue to are allowed to happen in ga. so, you know, joe might and normalize genocide thrown out, thrown these is normalizing ebony, glancing. what's next? right. where does the buck stop and where does the international community find? all these sites enough is enough. we're seeing a few as the, the tragic thing is that the, the people of palestine are being monitored to create a better world. that's

a really hard thing to think about. that's all the time we have fascinating discussion when i think my guess and from toronto and into the end. and of course i want to thank our viewers, are watching us here in our tea. so you next time remember prospect rules the the climate global warming thoughts? so field warming has become a convenient scape code for, you know, all of the planets, problems, you know, whatever. there is a water resource shortage. they don't blame. pour water management, bad governance or extravagant use of water instead, they blame climate. change the,

the, the of all the wall claimed and ruined the lines of tens of thousands. but it was the hague tribunal with delta of finishing flow to the muscle. next fell down. yeah . it was that i will talk to him, all of that will cause that the curious, i mean them or is that the rest of your stuff or so much and the funding that has made them i guess that means okay, up on these you're about to send me to blog that's through the because of the to eco, so tired of table a cousin built around what sort of on teams so so so the, so the evictions or for something to bit jamie stuff as i've done this for plus they have to go into your stuff, as i said this,

so not click on nice to provide any problem. the 1st i noticed was that some of the the headline stories this our i one a t turn from love the mirror zalinski who's saying he's, he'll be with a lot of are uprooted, but not one other russian for peace negotiations. that's this by the ukranian law. he brought in for a meeting cox with russia as president cult. and what i worry about is the threat from within the retreat of europe, from some of its most fundamental values value shared with the united states of america. no mincing words by new us vice president j. d pounds. up in munich,