finding people who make you go, i want to find out a better idea. i want to impress that person. i want to make that person laugh. whenever you are playing sports when people are better than you it makes you rise to the occasion. part of that is that. to collaborate with inspiration. in terms of television when we do shows like person of interest, you have people like jonah knoll, who pitched the idea. he had an idea that was important to him. the guy is such a talented writer. this guy is a genius, so it was a no-brainer to say, we want to see that show. eric pitched the idea for and we thought, we want to watch that. you have got to go, i would watch that. that seems good because i would watch that.

tavis: how do you know what interest you will interest other persons? >> it's very funny. i had lunch with paul simon, and i was talking about this very thing. how for a while the stuff that interested him did interest people. top of the charts. they were revolutionary in a lot of ways as musicians, and he said, sometimes you get to a place and not everyone react. ups and downs. i think you cannot predict anything, but you do the best you can to go, this feels like something that actually interests me. idea that spark something in me. all you can do is that. if you go at it from the beginning saying, the audience will like this, i think the odds of it

working at all dropped enormously. i think it's a dangerous aiding th --ing -- the interests a dangerous thing. lunch let me explore this that i wish i could have been part of. between abrams and simon is simon is called think artists at their best are called upon to speak a certain truth through their music. simon has to live and speak and express his truth, whether or not it resonates with the audience. sometimes they get it. sometimes they don't. i get that. people,entertaining so it's a little different.

one day you entertain them and they like this. for years now he has been the block buster. you put stuff out because it is about taste. with simon it is about truth. what happens when your taste is out of sense? does that make sense? >> with music, they are , but i do feel no matter what you are doing, whether it is music or writing a play or a polymer or drawing a picture or painting something that you are speaking to -- or or am -- or a poem, painting or something, when i get a phone call from the head to do a series about the plane crash, and i call back and say, here is my version of it.

was, there ision a hat. there is all bunch of stuff going on. that was as close to my truth within those parameters. tavis: what is it you think is happening now that is allowing you to hit the mark every time as it were? a taste maker, trying to get your truth out the sublease entertainment? visyour truth out vis-a- entertainment question mark but i feel opportunity creates opportunity, and when you do something that seems to work you have opportunity to do more. without question i end up saying yes to too many things. thinkare moments when i thomas it would be easier if this did not exist or that did ot exist.

the truth is it is not just me. group, a kind of campaign. when something comes along like ," these are people who are not just righteous, talented, worthy artists. they are going to do it with or without us. the opportunity to work with them is delicious. you want to work with the people you want to work with. are saying yes to people who don't need to be babysat. of al like i am part vessel that helps take ideas and brings it to the audience. i don't create all the shows i produce. i was on a plane coming

home yesterday from somewhere and reading an article about advice for professionals, and one of them was, learn how to say no. you have to learn to say no more often. as evidenced by the long litany of things you are working on, you don't say no. when something comes across your desk and you know you cannot say are theis, what elements that make it impossible to say no? >> sometimes it could be a who has blown you away, and you think, i would feel lucky to be part of whatever that thing is. sometimes it's a character. i was not a big "star trek" fan. the idea of one that did appeal

to me was an exciting challenge. with "star wars" it was something i loved so much as a kid i went into the meeting knowing i was going to say no. producer it was so surreal to be involved in that world. i ran downstairs to my wife katie after the meeting and said, i knew i was going to say no, but that was a really compelling meeting. kelly is like, oh, god. it is like casting a role in a , or meeting the person you know you should be with for the rest of your life. you can talk about it forever, and you can try to quantify, but the truth is when you walk into that restaurant and see that person, it hit you.

that's the person. it's hard to know what those qualities are. i have a number of questions about "star trek," but how is it you acknowledged you are not a big fan of the franchise, yet you did something that fans apparently loved? >> part of it is i had an amazing cast, incredible writers. huge fan.a i became a fan getting to work on it. those are wonderful characters and incredible relationships. the funny thing is it always felt a little bit phony. much, to appreciate it so the intelligence of the debate. oft he was doing was so much

a comment on where we were as a country at the time. the idea of people working together from various countries, different races all working together. it's just us working together as humans. it is an undeniably beautiful inc.. -- beautiful thing. i have become like an evangelist trek," whereas as a kid it did not click with me. this as something that can offer commentary about the world we live in. if you were to pick one of your are not -- you preaching, but if there is a project that you think speak something to us about our times, whatever it may be, what project is that, and what are you trying to say? >> i'm going to cheat and answer

with two things. one, i think revolution does speak to our reliance on technology in a way that is dangerous. whonyone who has kids watches them pull out their cell phones and doing instagram and only knowing how to communicate with people when you look at them on the screen and no one knows how to talk to each other, what the hell is happening? i think "revolution" speaks to ofelusive quiet and a moment shutting down and turning off the machine. the other answer i would say is ," which is aterest show doing stories about how we were being watched. when jonah nolan pitched the idea, it sounded paranoid.

until. >> until. all you have to do is read the paper. not a documentary, it is a very entertaining show. at the core of it is a wake-up that what we do, who we speak with, where we go, all that is being watched. i think it is less paranoid than true. i know your lovely bride has been involved and was a guest on this program a few days ago. are you comfortable -- i am extending this question about what these shows are saying about the times we live in.

are you comfortable staying in the space of creator and producer and having your say, or do you expect later in your life that you will step off that that and getthat platform more involved in politics and social issues of our time? >> yes, while my wife katie who used to work on capitol hill, is infinite lee more comfortable -- ininitely more comfortable the realm of politics, and i am blown away by her ability to true, and shet is has gotten involved in things that are really important. well we are still steep in business, even our little company has a diversity fellowship program, and one

thing that is undeniable is when you go to the emmy awards and go, it is asyou white as possible. aren't saying there exceptions, but one thing we are working to do is find people who stories, who are filmmakers, not just coming out of university, but others as worthy of a chance to make a film. we take two directors a year, and we make their films. they get to do interviews. it is like a crash course in moviemaking. while a lot of these people may not need it, what you need is relationships. incredible is, it's , and from who you know

there is this divide that is so unfair that we are trying to bridge. tryinglittle interest in to get involved in that way, but andave supported the fund, mary founded that organization and spoke so beautifully at the anniversary of the march on washington, and she is inspiration nonstop. i don't think you have to give up your day job to do the right thing. bearing fruit? >> we have already had two years of it, and we have gotten to see greatreat work by some talent. as it evolves, we are still working to make it as ruthless possible. -- fruitful as possible. say you already see and

the fact that these people all that the best in writers and cinematographers, asy all know each other filmmakers. start to build a tapestry of relationships where everyone can help everyone. appreciate the diversity. ofre has been a huge amount black films. something is happening where black film makers are taking stock of their own situation and deciding they need to do it for themselves. what is still holding back that real embrace of diversity? >> you can always do more, but " of thelle stations"

world are fantastic. having a director of color does not mean it has to be a black movie. we have a director who happens to be working on a film, and the movie is not particularly black. it is just a movie. ultimately speak to -- studios want to do what works, people, go to those mostly men, mostly white men who look like me. it's true. i hope they don't look like me. for them i hope they don't look like me. only you. it's you have got all the projects. you see, that person is a successful director, that the thing typically studios go to. i can rely on? it is incumbent upon the people doing their job now to give people a shot. think you trekkies

abandon them. >> that's crazy. become ae who has late in life trekkie i think there is room for both of these things. star trek in some ways informed star wars. they are such different worlds though. characters --d ours is more science taste, and "star wars" is more like a fairytale that happens to take place in space. >> people were worried it was going to get disneyfied. >> the people at disney are aware of this. they don't want that at all.

it is incredible the scale of marvel. there are maybe a lot of trekkies who would be thrilled i abandoned them. i want to circle back. how are you personally balancing all this? your personal life, how are you balancing all this? >> every hour that you spend , even if young love it, you are not with your family. i've got to tell you, if i weren't married to katie -- she has got this compass of what is important and what is real and what is right, and i didn't grow up in a house where we necessarily dealt with the stuff

i had topened, and deal with certain issues i had with my father for example later. my mother who passed away last year was an extraordinary woman, and i got to say everything we wanted to say to each other, but i realized in doing so how much we didn't necessarily engage deeply on a daily basis. just quality time but quantity two, and when you are 17 years old as my son is, you cannot predict when death is going to occur. it just happens. i think the key is -- i am more grateful for this than anything, but katie really helped remind me when i am getting way too into my own stuff or taking things way too seriously, and she never says, don't do this or don't do that.

she literally says, do what you want, but this is what i need. i have gone off the rails a little bit. i feel like i'm a how do you balance it? you don't even want balance. you wanted to be imbalanced on the side of what matters. ask, what really matters. when you are in your deathbed, you will ask, what really matters? all you can do is the best you can do, moment to moment, make the right decisions. i know there were some i made that were not the smart decisions, no question. tavis: you matter to your family and your fans. i am always happy to have you on this program. jj has a big book that is coming out, and he has promised to come

on next month to talk about a ."ok called "s we will talk about that, but until then, good to have you on. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley.join me next time for the first of two conversations with linda around that. her new memoir is entitled "simple dreams." ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. ♪hank you. >> be more. pbs. coming up --

betty rollin reports on the contentious issue of gay

marriage in the united methodist church, where a prominent minister and scholar faces a possible church trial for officiating at his gay son's wedding. also, fred de sam lazaro on a 1300-year-old manuscript, the first translation of the christian gospels from latin into english, very old english. plus, a new exhibition of works created especially during the holocaust by artist marc chagall, who painted a crucified jewish jesus to personify jewish suffering.

>> welcome. i'm bob abernethy. it's good to have you with us. faith-based groups are among those mobilizing to help victims of the massive flooding in colorado. as floodwaters began to recede this week, the magnitude of the devastation started coming into focus, although many areas are still inaccessible. state officials estimated that more than 19,000 homes were damaged or destroyed. churches set up shelters for thousands of people who were evacuated. religious groups are providing emergency aid, assessing long term needs and calling for volunteers. in the wake of this week's mass shooting at the washington navy yard, faith leaders called for prayers of consolation and healing. the tragedy also prompted some in the religious community to

renew calls for stricter background checks before gun sales. the shooter, aaron alexis, was described as exploring buddhism prior to the attack. buddhist leaders condemned his actions. according to new figures from the u.s. census bureau, 15% of all americans, including one in five children, lived in poverty last year, virtually no improvement from 2011. many religious leaders warned the numbers will increase if congress does not protect federal food programs. this week, faith-based activists urged the house of representatives not to move ahead with a plan that would cut the snap program, formerly called food stamps, by $40 billion over the next ten years. in the midst of the jewish high holiday season, more than 1,000 rabbis and cantors urged congress to find a way through the impasse on comprehensive immigration reform.

this week, jews have been celebrating sukkot, which marks their ancestors' exodus from egypt during which they built temporary shelters. the jewish leaders said their history, along with biblical instructions to care for strangers, compelled them to speak out for immigration reform. the 68th session of the united nations' general assembly officially got underway in new york with strong calls for world peace. un secretary general ban ki-moon rang a peace bell and called for a global ceasefire. he specifically cited the situation in syria, which will be high on the agenda as the world leaders meet over the next several weeks. at the vatican, pope francis repeated his appeals for a diplomatic, not military, solution to the syrian crisis. meanwhile, in his first extensive interview, pope francis warned that the catholic church needs a new balance with