mr. maddux's activity. in the end, carefully developing the facts in the case, making my record -- our record, i should say, mr. moe's and my record complete, we convinced the judge that our theory was supported by law. and that harkens back to my earlier answer, which is that is what being a trial judge teaches you. >> and you see it from both ends, having obviously a novel theory, and a theory established in the law, and you also as a trial judge, you have seen theories brought in by prosecutors or defense, and you have to make your decisions based on those. the fairly easy answer to that is, you do, do you not? >> well, it's important to remember that as a judge, i don't make law. and so the task for me as a judge is not to accept or not accept new theories, but it's to decide whether the law as it exists has principles that apply to new situations. >> well, obviously, the tarzan case is -- it was a unique case. and as i said, mr. morganthal singled that out as an example of what kind of lawyer you were,