people who tortured humans over the last period of time since september 11th, poor lynndie england and have gone to jail. nobody else, nobody who designed the programs, nobody who executed them and we all know every torturer is a coward. every single one. it doesn't matter what flag they salute or what faith they embrace going back through history torturers are cowards, none of them have gone to jail yet. none of them and michael vick has done a year and a half. now, i love dogs. i really do. i have had a dog who was a far superior creature than most of the human beings i come up against, but a sense of proportion. we have to have in this case. >> i agree with that. >> you bring up, you bring up an interrogators. i've been bringing up child molesters. a lot of people that have molested 5, 6, 7-year-old children that have spent less time in prison than michael vick. >> yes. >> and, again, the proportionality of it, i just wonder if michael vick bagged groceries at a grocery store in northern virginia, if he would -- >> that is the price you pay. there are a lot of benefits of being a ri