ii hard -- and every estimate that i have seen, they will return a positive investment for ppthe american taxpayer. every time we said that, i always make clear to say, and our numbers always show, we still face a substantial risk of loss on a range of other programs, including the ones we inherited from the previous administration i want to make sure that we never made that mistake, and i will never make that mistake. we are still exposed to substantial risk. >> but, but export sort of curious -- but the metrics were sort of curious. to a lot of people it looks like you're trying to say there was safe for the million-dollar profit, when at the end of the day, there is it $500 billion loss. >> one of the important things about the way we have done these programs is that we put out regular estimates, including by independent analysts, of the potential costs. it is hard to find any country and around the world that has explicitly identified and provided regular independent%- estimates of the ultimate cost the taxpayer. i ammcommitted to that. judgments. life is uncertain. these programs will cost a