and walter johns -- i think that jimmy mcgovern and walter jones the congress members pushing this,port. >> you could have done all this without the nation-building. you could have a military presce, but you don't have to be doing and as counterinsurgency and spending all this money -- endless counterinsurgency and spending all this money -- >> but you take this point about that basis and so forth? >> biden said we can do the military staff and targeted killing with a smaller base. we don't need to be trying to build afghanistan -- >> i think we will have a fairly active summer. i don't know if we can make progress because the summer is one of the real war happens. after that, obama is on a pretty short leash about actually getting troops out. popular support will erode. it is fire at the moment, but it will not last long. >> petraeus, mr. counterinsurgency, is now at the cia. >> does this mean -- i had a sense last week -- that the joe biden scenario is the one that is going to be -- >> with the personalities, i think it is possible, because at the cia they hunt down and killed ter

in that sense, jimmy mcgovern and walter jones, the two congress members pushing this, deserve support. i think the popular support for the war in afghanistan -- >> you could have done all this without nation building. you could have had a military presence in afghanistan. you don't have to do endless counterinsurgency -- >> but take his part about the bases and so forth. >> remember when we were debating what to do, biden said we could do the military stop and targeted killing with a smaller base. we don't need to be trying to build afghanistan -- >> i suspect we will have a summer, a fairly active summer. i don't know if we can actually make progress. summer is one of the real war happens. after that, obama is on a pretty short leash about actually getting troops out because of popular support will erode enormously. it is higher at the moment but it will last for long -- will not last long. >> petraeus, mr. counterinsurgency, is now at the cia. >> does this mean -- i had the sense last week -- that the joe biden a scenario you suggest is the one -- >> look at the personalities, i thi

american hostages, and in many ways, it sealed jimmy carter's fate and reinforced the idea that the democrats going back to vietnam, to the george mcgovernpaign where he was against the war and so on, that the democrats were both wary of, inept about, and opposed to the use, the expert use of tough military actions. this is a case where president obama and his team were brave in the choices they made. they were surgical in what they did. and they succeeded to the utmost. and i think that's going to go a long way, especially when the republicans who are likely to run, and the dominant and prominent republican contenders, have no military experience. now we're past that time. nobody has any military experience anymore. but now ironically, it's barack obama who's got the commander in chief experience. john mccain isn't running again. and i think it's a big tipping point, in my view, a big tipping point between the parties that didn't exist before. >> todd? ike was restrained. he didn't use military force hardly at all. carter didn't use it. but there's a difference between restraint and pacifism, i guess. >> most of our lifetime it's been t