there are two lawyers, lynn holt and harold moore, jr. who became allies of the student movement during the 1960s. and my book spends many, many chapters detailing the synergies between these lawyers and the student movement over the course of the 1960s. .. i want to emphasize two points. they are first to students heard to date direct partly out of frustration with civil rights leaders and the civil rights litigation, the pace of civil rights litigation was too slow for them. by two, even as they pursued their new tactics, they didn't turn entirely away from the law and i want to read you a quote from john lewis that eliminates the nature of the students critique of a lawyer dominated movement. lewis said quote, we were all about a mass movement, and irresistible movement of the masses, not a handful of lawyers in a closed court to, but hundreds, thousands of everyday people taking their cars unbelief to the streets. not so interested in the years. now, it's important to appreciate the contacts of the statement. he made it at a time when

that's driven to a large extent by the courts are not so much by the plaintiffs, which is why the lynn holtsaid howard morris often litigated cases over so -- the scale of them doesn't compare to the scale of the brown versus board of education. unless i would suggest that if one was to listen to that kind of dissent, one has to be committed to a variety of approaches to lawyering as well as integrating political tactics i don't even mean that lobbying. the students were interest did in one mickles program. as to mathews and her approach to dissent, yes, i think that it is important to think about the ways in which the legacy of jim crow includes poverty. and of course we do talk about those issues, right? we don't just historicizing his issues. that's what talk about mass incarceration. we talk about all sorts of issues that relate to that legacy, but they're not and i'm not sure we speak about them in a way that is sensitive, that is sympathetic to the outsole may not use of the world what to think the thing that is important is that if math is another slight curve -- have only spoken abo