we've heard from senator tom coburn and both of us and your thoughts on coburn's decision to up the ante so to speak. tax code, loophole, eligibility, a trillion out of defense aing if you don't go for the if you $9 trillion you're not engaging the problem. your thoughts? >> i don't think our number one problem is the debt, it's jobs. with that said, i applaud senator coburn for talking about cuts in defense. i applaud him for realizing we have a revenue problem in this country. we talk about spending in terms of gdp of this country. well, in fact, our revenue is far lower relative to its natural baseline, relative to gdp than our spending is higher. that's simply a fact. at the end of the day i would rather see a jobs program, but i appreciate at least there's some measure of a moncome of honesty we have a revenue problem. >> a sensible discussion, which is what the american people want and deserve. the most interesting poll, 80% of americans want republicans and democrats to work together, to talk the problems through. only one in five americans think deficit reduction can occur throug

that is part of senator coburn's plan. the "gang of six "budget's plan is to reduce the deficit $4 trillion over 10 years, overhaul the tax code $1 trillion, immediate spending cuts of $500 billion. caller: i appreciate what you are saying, but i think the whole problem of everything that we're going through in this country right now has to come down to one simple thing. and that is separate ralte racial of powers. now, a lot of people get this miscon trude with oh, you mean separation of church and state. no. well, yes and no. in their derrick the church was the big power. kings and queens could not move without the permission of the church. nowadays it is big business. when you have big business influence washington, d.c., people like yourself, this is what you are going to get. you cannot have foxes guarding the hen house. host: all right. your response. guest: if you talk about specific tax credits, i think he's right. i don't think it is just big business. i think it is the aarp, i think it is the big labor unions. i

coburn: all right. [inaudible] mr. kerry: mr. president, i would just ask the senator again, what i'm trying to do is help us get out of this predicament we've got where we've got a couple of days before the united states defaults. everything the senator has said is worthy of inquiry, but isn't it true that if we could get -- i mean, part of the reid proposal and the boehner proposal proposes a joint committee that will be structured somewhat like a base closing commission that will require the senate and the house to vote in expeditious fashion on these kinds of proposals, whatever the joint committee proposes, and if the joint committee doesn't succeed in proposing something, then hopefully either the gang of six or the simpson-bowles commission. so isn't it key now to resolving this crisis and not defaulting our ability to be able to come together on a sufficient trigger or some sufficient mechanism that guarantees we're actually going to deal with the things similar to what the senator is raising? mr. coburn: well, i would no

say they don't do that but get a deal. >> coburn serious, they'll be something. >> i think tom coburn is right. i actual aagree. he's part of gang of six's they prose good stuff. but you asked about creating jobs. the only thing that my friends on the right and our good close personal friend grover norquist who everyone seems to think i'm close friends with now, everybody is talking about tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. i want to remind me. i love history. in 1981, ronald reagan with a democratic house and a newly republican senate passed a massive tax decrease. slashed rates by 23% across the board. unemployment went from 7.6% to 9.7%. 1982 -- >> i got it. >> you get the point? okay. so -- >> your point is that the tax code has limited or no correlation to employment, which makes relative sense. i want to take a break. keep you guys. i think we made the biggest point which is you have the acute problem, which is the up employment and forced to deal way chronic problem for political purposes and it's insulting. this is the mega panel that stays. if you want to see what a real debt deal

coburn has the right idea. only opposition is that all he wants to do is raise the revenue through the tax loopholes. you have to pair that. then you get the 1986, a deal between reagan and tip o'neil with a quarter century of almost uninterrupted expansion. >> bret: bowles was in the sound bite that you heard about the 2 trillion number. next up, latest on the 2012 presidential race on the gp side. the 3.6-liter v6 engine of the jeep grand cherokee has a best-in-class driving range of over 500 miles per tank. so you can catch morning tee time in pebble beach and the afternoon meeting in losngeles all without running out of gas. st make sure you don't run out of gas. ♪ >> bret: all the republican candidates want to get there to the white house. they are focusing on iowa, the iowa straw poll in ames august 13. the g.o.p. debate on fox is august 11. here is the latest poll out. quinnipiac has a new poll out that says mitt romney at 25%. michele bachmann at 14%. this is nationwide. sarah palin, rick perry, 10%. yo

coburn has the right idea.only opposition is that all he wants to do is raise the revenue through the tax loopholes. you have to pair that. then you get the 1986, a deal between reagan and tip o'neil with a quarter century of almost uninterrupted expansion. >> bret: bowles was in the sound bite that you heard about the 2 trillion number. next up, latest on the 2012 th, i know pleasing fans is a top priority, 'cause without the fans, there'd be no nascar. just like if it weren't for customers, there'd be no nationwide. that's why they serve their customers' needs, not shareholder profits. because as a mutual, nationwide doesn't report to wall street, they report to their customers. and that's just one more reason why the earnhardt family has trusted nationwide for more than 30 years. nationwide is on your side. >> bret: all the republican candidates want to get there to the white house. they are focusing on iowa, the iowa straw poll in ames august 13. the g.o.p. debate on fox is august 11. here is the latest pol

>>guest: senator coburn is a politician.what he is saying but congressional budget office is scoring it at $2 trillion. it is not enough. in cap and balance, we will cut the deficit in half by fiscal year 2012, that is the right thing to do and it is what we need and puts in spending accountability that anyone can put around without going back to the people and along with the balance the budget and that has to be part of it. >>stuart: but cut, cap and balance will probably pass in the house of representatives on that vet but it will surveil in the senate, and it would be vottoed by the president. i don't anybody who says that this cut, cap and balance is going to happen. it is largely a symbol. >>guest: why think anything is symbolic because why have a crystal ball. i am always hope will our politicians regardless of party do what is right. i understand the pent you trying to make and i don't shuffle the deck, get this passed and go back and see what the senate does. see what plan they put forth. the gang of six plan, i want

we'll take a short break and be back with senator tom coburn. >> the "l.a. times" calls it required tv viewing. it solves a mystery that even nicklas cage can't conjure. the library of congress, behind the skis of the world's -- behind-the-scenes of the world's largest library. sunday at 9:00 eastern time. in the garden of the beast, erik larson covered the rise and fall of hitler. >> i stumbled upon the first ambassador. >> a story of politics, intrigue in nazi germany. sunday on "q & a." >> if you want to be informed of what is going on, it is not so hard. c-span has a digital arkife that goes back to 1987 where you can basically watch anything that happens -- happened in the house or senate chambers right there on your screen. there are sources of information that were unimaginable 20 years ago. >> the c-span video library makes it easy to follow washington with economy rooms and the house and senate chambers. all searchable, shareable, and free. the peabody award-winning c-span video library. it is washington your way. >> this weekend on book tv, literac

we have senator coburn, more with senator jon kyl, senator barrasso and so much more.y with us, we'll be back for another live hour. vytçf<

that is part of senator coburn's plan. the "gang of six "budget's plan is to reduce the deficit $4 trillion over 10 years, overhaul the tax code $1 trillion, immediate spending cuts of $500 billion. caller: i appreciate what you are saying, but i think the whole problem of everything that we're going through in this country right now has to come down to one simple thing. and that is separate ralte racial of powers. now, a lot of people get this miscon trude with oh, you mean separation of church and state. no. well, yes and no. in their derrick the church was the big power. kings and queens could not move without the permission of the church. nowadays it is big business. when you have big business influence washington, d.c., people like yourself, this is what you are going to get. you cannot have foxes guarding the hen house. host: all right. your response. guest: if you talk about specific tax credits, i think he's right. i don't think it is just big business. i think it is the aarp, i think it is the big labor unions. i

. >> schieffer: that is tom coburn of oklahoma and joins dick durbin one of the leading democrats and senator marco rubio the tea party favorite as we try again to get answers to the questions, are we on the verge of an economic disaster and why for all of the bluster does congress seem powerless to do anything about it? it is all ahead on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs "face the nation" with cbs news chief washington correspondent bob schieffer. and now from cbs news in washington, bob schieffer. >> schieffer: and good morning, again, senator durbin is in springfield, illnois this morning, senator coburn is in muskogee, oklahoma, senator rubio will be along later in the broadcast, gentlemen welcome to all of you. well, the administration says unless something gets done by august 2nd, the nation will slide into default and the term backed by the full, faith and credit of the united states, the best guarantee the world has ever known won't mean what it used to mean. and who knows what impact that will have on not just our economy, but economies around the world. so we w

coburn endorses it 9:30, 10:00 on the senate floor.ours later the president is going i love it. >> i think it felt like choreography when coburn initially left. i think that's when it began in order to be wooed back to have this moment. the gang of six have always been looking for the moment in this debt limit fight. >> i didn't think they were going to find it. >> i didn't think they were going to find it. as you know, it's not legislation yet. there's very little time. i don't know that this vehicle will be a legislative vehicle by august 2nd. that sounds like a huge mountain for them to climb. but they did indeed find their moment in this debate. >> cynthia, for the first time the president actually picked a fight with congress and won. he's actually lost every one of these battles as far as public opinion is concerned. what was different this time for him? >> for one thing he's learning how to use the bully pulpit. how many times has the president has press conferences in the last two weeks, when in fact much of his first two years

republican senator tom coburn rejoined it yesterday.uce the deficit by $3.7 trillion, cut taxes by $1.5 trillion over ten years, implement $500 billion in immediate cuts, new revenue and simplify the tax code to three brackets. president obama appeared at yesterday's white house briefing to praise the proposal saying it was "broadly consistent with his deficit goals" he urged lawmakers to use the proposal to move forward to a final deal. >> we now have a bipartisan group of senators who agree with that balanced approach and we've got the american people who agree with that balanced approach. my hope and what i will be urging speaker boehner, nancy pelosi as well as leader reid and mitch mcconnell is that they, tomorrow, are prepared to start talking turkey and actually getting down to the hard business of crafting a plan that can move this forward. >> wow! >> steve, talk about this gang of six proposal. does it -- the president like it is. tom coburn likes it, very conservative guy. the gang of six is involved with it. what do you think

we have senator coburn, more with senator jon kyl, senator barrasso and so much more.her live hour. [ male announcer ] this is the network. a network of possibilities. excuse me? my grandfather was born in this village. [ automated voice speaks foreign language ] [ male announcer ] in here, everyone speaks the same language. ♪ in here, forklifts drive themselves. no, he doesn't have it. yeah, we'll look on that. [ male announcer ] in here, friends leave you messages written in the air. that's it right there. [ male announcer ] it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. so i want to major in biology. miss gopie is the best teacher i ever had. she's amang, i love her. [ de ] i'm teaching jasmine ap biology. i knew she had the talent... i always pushed her. [ jasmine ] her class you literally have to think, le it takes so long to do her homework. [ jade ] she's gained the confidence that she can achieve anything. [ jasmine ] i'm going to be aediatrician... and i'm going to make this dream come true. a 100 percent. ♪ the two trains and

sean senator coburn i -- i was mad at you for this.y that they were voting on cut, cap and balance, which both of you support in the house of representatives, the president races to the white house briefing room. hang on, stop the presses we've got this new deal. in that sense i felt this was diverting attention, the country away from what i think was a really sound, good solution. did the president purposely use your plan, in your view to distract the country? >> i don't know what people's motivations are, it obviously did. the sad situation is the house passed cut, cap and balance. and the leadership of the senate instructed all of his members to table it so we couldn't even have a vote on it. i don't know what the motivations are. but the fact is you're right that's the one thing that could have solved our problems. >> sean: why senator coburn were you supporting this instead of everybody uniting? it seems tactically that the republicans seem to, with the president having three republican plans out there no plan by himself, we were

we have senator coburn, more with senator jon kyl, senator barrasso and so much more.for another live hour. on our car insurance. great! at progressive, you can compartes side by side, so you get the same coverage, often for less. wow! that is huge! [ disco playing ] and this is to remind you that you could save hundreds! yeah, that'll certainly stick with me. we'll ta it. go, big money! i mean, go. it's your break, honey. same coverage, more savings. now, that's progressive. call or click today. excuse me? my grandfather was born in this village. [ automated voice speaks foreign language ] [ male announcer ] in here, everyone speaks the same language. ♪ in here, forklifts drive themselves. no, he doesn't have it. yeah, we'll look on that. [ male announcer ] in here, friends leave you messages written in the air. that's it right there. [ male announcer ] it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. so i want to major in biology. miss gopie is the best teacher i ever had. she's amang, i love her. [ de ] i'm teaching jasmine ap biology.

so, i am grateful for senator coburn and what he's doing.r jason chaffetz and he and the work jim jordan have done on the house side with cut, cap and balance. i want the white house to be engaged. i wish someone would wake the senate up and let them know they need to do something as well. the deadlines are real. they're real for a reason. that is why parties need to get together to decide what they can do. this bill if passed by the house this week will give the president what he wants which is 2.4 trillion dollar, 2.4 trillion dollar increase in the debt limit and no one lays a hand on the affordable care act. that's what the president has laid out that he needs more than anything. okay, mr. president, we're giving you that. we're just attaching some conditions. jon: worth pointing out you're a physician before you came to congress and have made quite a study or made studying the affordable care act sort of a mission of yours. >> it is my new career. jon: we've been asking though, does anybody come out as winners in this debate? seems like

senator coburn is back in the room.e obviously pus up a $9 trillion proposal, i guess it was yesterday, mid-day, hitting frefrg $1 trillion in defenseta elimination,s 3ds trillion and entitlements by the ways and means testing. in the room, he pretty much took a crack at it. sounds like the gang of six plan right now is a more along the lines of $3 trillion to $4 trm. is that where this is head ed? $3 trillion to $4 trillion? >> i certainly think the spread correct. i think the plan purt forward by a bipartisan group of six united states senators. three democrats, three republicans, with mr. coburn included in that three on the republican side, there's a very positive step forward. i haven't yet seen all the specifics of what they've recommended, but clearly, it mirrors the plan that was put forward by mr. bolwles and formr senator alan simpson asking everybody to take part getting a handle on the debt which conference us and it's essential and everybody agrees. the question is how do you do it? who gets hurt jt do you

senator coburn is back. he just reuped with the gang of six. he ditched them in may. now he's back. hours ago the gang announced a new debt plan. here's the hitch, yesterday senator coburn unveiled his own plan and then there's senate minority leader mcconnell's plan. which one of these plans is a sure fix? we asked senator coburn. yesterday the headlines why you had -- were you had a nine trillion plan. today you rejoined the gang of six. if you -- can you tell me the difference between the two plans? >> 5.3 trillion. >> greta: i knew i was in trouble. >> one fixes our complete problem. one gets us out of truck as a country the other moves news the -- out of trouble as a country. the other moves us in the direction. if you want us to borrow at the best rates of anybody in the world and put our economy back where it needs to be, with vibrant job creating economy. then you would do this nine trillion dollars. that gets us out of the risk of default. gets it back growing. solves the problems. takes await shackles we've put on our kids and ground kids. realistically, i wasn't going to

senator coburn comes on next, the gang of six worked at it. they've got an outline. there's plenty parts -- >> help me understand the timing. you're saying you want a vote that says the debt ceiling is raised until 2013. there could be this super commission that takes on the hard stuff. >> right, right. >> and when does it have to vote up or down, by when? >> if the super committee doesn't produce something that the congress approves, and my understanding is this is speaker boehner's plan -- if they don't produce something in early -- at the end of -- pardon me, at the end of '11 or '12, then there's action that must take place. senator mcconnell has a plan where the president would come to the congress, give his list of cuts, they could vote approval or disapproval on that proposal in order to get the extension of the debt ceiling, but it would not be this sword being held over the american people's heads once again. >> but why should the american people have any more confidence in the political system's ability to make hard choices then when it won't make the hard

go ahead. >> senator coburn introduced a plan that was extraordinarily detailed. >> it's not coburn plan, todd. >> it's the bumper sticker being voted on. >> the house has plan. coburn has a plan. >> have you read this, todd? have you read this? have you read it? >> no, i haven't read it. >> how do you know you're saying there's something in here and i'm reading it. >> at least you're holding on to something. this is the president's plan. right here. this is it. nothing. it's vapor. there is no plan, because there's no leadership. period. >> the president's plan outlines $4 trillion in cuts. >> there is no plan. >> to the speaker's credit, she being held hostage by tea party republicans. >> let's go to the outlet as they say in football. the outlet pass. former president bill clinton weighed in with a debt creel wig an interview with joe who writes, clinton says he would invoke the so-called constitutional option to raise the nation's debt ceiling "without het tags and force the courts to stop me" in order to prevent a default. that's the national memo dotcom. is that true? he believe s

coburn: all right. [inaudible] mr. kerry: mr. president, i would just ask the senator again, what i'm trying to do is help us get out of this predicament we've got where we've got a couple of days before the united states defaults. everything the senator has said is worthy of inquiry, but isn't it true that if we could get -- i mean, part of the reid proposal and the boehner proposal proposes a joint committee that will be structured somewhat like a base closing commission that will require the senate and the house to vote in expeditious fashion on these kinds of proposals, whatever the joint committee proposes, and if the joint committee doesn't succeed in proposing something, then hopefully either the gang of six or the simpson-bowles commission. so isn't it key now to resolving this crisis and not defaulting our ability to be able to come together on a sufficient trigger or some sufficient mechanism that guarantees we're actually going to deal with the things similar to what the senator is raising? mr. coburn: well, i would no

i mean, when you have a senator like tom coburn, very staunch conservative and fiscal hawk, when you have him willing to compromise, you have to take notice. in addition, the tea party should be looking out for itself. remember, the yippee movement in the 1960's, at one point it had some power and influence but it blew up because it was fanatical. and americans turned away. right now 19% of registered voters consider themselves part of the tea party movement, according to a fox news survey. that includes 25% republicans, 13 hers independents and 6% democrats. but 19% is not enough to carry the day on anything. and if the tea party is perceived by most americans as being unreasonable, it will not grow any larger. in fact, if a compromise on the debt is not reached, and the economy gets even worse, the tea party will be blamed. at this point in history the tea party could become a tremendous force for good in the country. but it could also evaporate. most americans do not like extremism in politics. we need a sane compromise. a tough economic reform in this

tom coburn on this program. welcome. >> thank you, charlie. good to be with you. >> tell me where y think it is, this negotiation now that the president has evolved directly and not just leaving it to vice president biden. >> well, i think it all depends on whether or not we approach the very real problems that our country's facing in terms of our debt and our fiscal situation, whether or not you're approach that in a meaningful way that doesn't just pass the test of congress, it passes the test that says the people that are interested in loaning money for sovereign debt think we'vedone enough to deserve their confidence. >> you have been unilaterally said that you are opposed to some reducing some of the reductions in corporations and others get, in order and help on the revenue side, correct? >> well, yes. but my motivation isn't just revenue, in fact you he a lower flatter curve and a more predictable tax system which u'll get is bigger investmen with great growth and revenues of the federal government. when we have 20% of the people in 200

senator tom coburn, -- straddle the fence.nator tom coburn there was a time when you were part of the gang of six when you were trying to find some sort of compromise. why did you take that position? >> because the only way you solve our problems, and our problem is going to affect a democrat or republican, exactly the same when we -- if we don't solve them. the only way you solve it is recognize that you have to meet in the middle to solve our country's problems. if you say i'm here and you have to come to me, you'll never get 'em there. it didn't matter whether you are on the political right or left. this country isn't extreme on either end. we're center, center right. >> you did anger some republicans by being open to some things that some of your colleagues were not open to. you all can again react to it. tell me about that. >> well, first of all, i'm an american. a husband. a father. a doctor. long before i'm a republican. if i don't solve problems for our country, it impacts my grandchildren. it impacts my family. it imp

coburn: let me update my colleague. do i plan to call up this amendment, and i do plan to ask for a vote on it because it is important. what has happened -- and i'll call the amendment up in a moment. what has happened? the senator from arizona has had the disease melanoma, cancerous melanoma, at his age. and we kind of know somebody at his age, if they have large amounts of sun exposure over long periods of time on birth marks you can develop medical know massachusetts there is causation re -- you can develop melanoma. i've also had melanoma and what science also knows is you can develop it without exposure. what happened in the v.a. is we've taken and gotten way from causation and gone to any association that could ever be made. we also know i'm a survivor of colon cancer. what we know is your risk for colon cancer goes way up if you eat a highly refined diet, very few vegetables and have that kind of a diet associated with also high levels of sugar. i didn't have any of those things, but yet i had colon cancer. becau

we saw very strong and positive reaction. >> reporter: senator conrad and coburn are still both unsure if there is time to get the gang of six plan through congress before the country borrowing authority expires august 2. senator conrad suggests things would go faster if there is broad support for the plan but house speaker john boehner says the plan still falls short. bret? >> bret: senator crapo one of the members of the gang of six will join us live in studio in a minute. wendell, thank you. stocks were up with the largest one-day jump so far this year. the dow added 20 # points. the s&p 500 gained 21. the nasdaq picked up nearly 61-1/2. home construction increased 14-1/2% in june. but experts say that is still only half as many homes needed for a healthy housing market. there were some unexpected fireworks in the much anticipated hearing before the british parliament in the "news of the world" phone hacking scandal. that is the now defunk newspaper owned by newspaper corp, parent company of fox news. senior foreign affairs correspondent greg palkot has the latest. >> reporter: rupe

mcconnell's fellow republicans, including marco rubio as well as former member of gang of six, tom coburn. >> the way the deal is currently structured right now, it gives the president the ability to raise the debt limit. the debt limit is not really the problem here. the problem is the debt. i don't believe this plan as it's been outlined to me is a credible solution to our debt problem. >> i think the mcconnell plan is more of washington not taking responsibility for -- it's a great political plan. it takes the pressure off all the politicians. but allows us to pass a debt limit without making the hard choices that this country has to make. >> you just heard from him, senator coburn is expected to unveil his own $9 trillion package. that should happen later today. the obama administration for its part, however, remains hopeful not only about a deal but the size of that deal. in an interview on "meet the press," white house budget director jack lou reiterated president obama's plan to cut the deficit by $4 trillion over the next decade. >> the president made clear he wants the largest de

i liked senator coburn's plan, i liked congressman ryan's plan. the point is republicans time after time are actually introducing plans. i agree with congressman walsh entirely. there is no piece of paper, no documents that exists anywhere that says president obama's plan to fight the debt, to reduce the debt and curb spending. is it doesn't exist. he barely even mentioned the debt in his state of union for six months he was awol in the discussions, and now he's talking about, oh, it's armageddon -- >> chris -- >> see my hand -- i've got your bill here. it's got no cuts. all it talks about is the vainglorious -- >> chris, chris, the ryan plan, the coburn plan, individual -- >> no, the cut you're voting on today -- >> who cares about -- >> hold on. >> steve, help out here. >> hold on, this is absurd. where is the president's plan? where is -- >> can i answer your question? let me sxla inthis to todd, because he apparently has been away from the news lately. the vice president of the united states had republican members of congress, the leadership u

republican coburn is the closest republican friend the president has in the senate. they've been talking a lot. why did the president come out for this? if you look at the new poll, you'll see the idea of a mixed package of some tax hikes, combined with entitlement reform and including spending cuts and deficit reductions of $4 trillion over ten years, beats the republican plan in preference among our respondents, 58-36, republican plan being cuts only and no taxes. any sort of deal is putting pressure on both parties. for republicans, a large majority of the country is telling republicans get off the no-new taxes pledge and compromise at 62%. but inside those numbers, tea party supporters, 65% of them say to republicans, "no. stick to your guns and stick to the pledge." as for democrats and entitlement reform look at this one. majority, 52% of everybody we tested, said the democrats stick to your guns and don't allow cuts in medicare and social security for deficit reduction. so as you can see, it's a mixed political bag for both parties. but particularly for republ

joining me now, two members of that bipartisan group, senator kent conrad and senator tom coburn. senators, thank you so much for joining me. i know it's been a busy day. >> good to be with you. >> good to be with you. >> where are we as things stand? >> well, i think it's clear that we don't know. there's been a negotiation at the white house that we've not been a direct part of, and we had a meeting scheduled with our leaders at 5:00, and they were called to the white house. so i don't think we'll know the full details until later tonight or perhaps in the morning. what i'm hopeful of is that we do have a deal that changed the trajectory of our debt in a way that's responsible and balanced and that can pass. >> let me ask both of you. the recent polls suggest that the american public are now pretty clear about what they're prepared to accept. they want a cut in spending, and they're prepared to accept some tax increases, and they're prepared for the debt ceiling to be raised. would you both concur that that is where we are now in terms of public opinion? >> it depends on whether

that is part of senator coburn's plan. the "gang of six "budget's plan is to reduce the deficit $4 trillion over 10 years, overhaul the tax code $1 trillion, immediate spending cuts of $500 billion. caller: i appreciate what you are saying, but i think the whole problem of everything that we're going through in this country right now has to come down to one simple thing. and that is separate ralte racial of powers. now, a lot of people get this miscon trude with oh, you mean separation of church and state. no. well, yes and no. in their derrick the church was the big power. kis and queens could not move without the permission of the church. nowadays it is big business. when you have big business influence washington, d.c., people like yourself, this is what you are going to get. you cannot have foxes guarding the hen house. host: all right. your response. guest: if you talk about specific tax credits, i think he's right. i don't think it is just big business. i think it is the aarp, i think it is the big labor unions. i th

coburn: all right. [inaudible] mr. kerry: mr. president, i would just ask the senator again, what i'm trying to do is help us get out of this predicament we've got where we've got a couple of days before the united states defaults. everything the senator has said is worthy of inquiry, but isn't it true that if we could get -- i mean, part of the reid proposal and the boehner proposal proposes a joint committee that will be structured somewhat like a base closing commission that will reque the senate and the house to vote in expeditious fashion on these kinds of proposals, whatever the joint committee proposes, and if the joint committee doesn't succeed in proposing something, then hopefully either the gang of six or the simpson-bowles commission. so isn't it key now to resolving this crisis and not defaulting our ability to be able to come together on a sufficient trigger or some sufficient mechanism that guarantees we're actually going to deal with the things similar to what the senator is raising? mr. coburn: well, i would not

the gang of five is now gang of six again and coburn rejoined again, and they have presented the plany have been working on for seven months to more than 50 of the colleagues, and from what i'm hearing the colleagues like it. senator mark udall said it is a lot of support to turn the gang into a mob. and kay bailey hutchinson said she thought it could get 60 votes and although she is optimistic that the house should like this plan, because it has spending cuts and i believe it will spur the economy. the plan, itself, is two parts, and the first is $500 billion in cuts and new revenues. and the second part is to reform the tax code to raise $1 trillion in tax reforms and then another bill to save another $2 trillion by cutting discretionary spending and entitlements medicare and medicaid and ultimately social security. when they say that everything is on the table, they are talking about this kind of plan. now, i don't care who you are or what you believe, there is a lot you won't like here. there is a lot frankly not to like here and there is a lot i don't like here and one imposed ru

senator coburn even he says he doesn't expect congress to pass his plan. no one in washington does.kers could use it as a sort of road map for a compromise on the debt limit. but so far there is no compromise on anything. worries about debt problems here and overseas weighed on bank stocks in an enormous way today. here in the united states shares of goldman sachs and j.p. morgan traded at their lowest levels in a year citigroup almost down 2%. bank of america almost down 3% today alone. general worth financial closed 8% lower. worse for banks overseas. shares the bank of ireland down almost 13% today. and as you might expect, all of this dragged down the markets as a whole, we're in trouble, hello, the dow off 95. nasdaq 25. s&p 500 down 11. one time jeopardy champ could be the country's next wall street watchdog. the president nominating richard cordray to held up the new consumer financial protection bureau. richard cordray is the former attorney general and back in 1987 he was a five-time winner on jeopardy. not that any of you see it because it son in this time slot. took home

and i saw your interview with senator coburn. he likes that.ocrats and republicans in the senate like it. the question is, do they have 218 votes in the house of representatives? because there are a lot of republicans as you know, brooke, in the house who don't want any tax increases whatsoever. and there are plenty of democrats in the house who don't want to fool around with social security, medicare entitlements, whatsoever. with we're go i think to get two representatives in the house of representatives in "the situation room" later today. david wasserman shultz who also happens to be the chair of the democrat party. she's got a lot to say about this. also jason chaffetz, tea partier. he has a different perspective. the real battle is not necessarily going to be in the senate it's going to be in the house of representatives. we'll see what happens there. one final note, pete hoekstra, the former chairman of the house intelligence commission announces he's going to throw his hat in the ring. so we'll see what happens in michigan. that will be

that is part of senat coburn's plan.six "budget's plan is to reduce the deficit $4 trillion over 10 years, overhaul the tax code $1 trillion, immediate spending cuts of $500 billion. caller: i appreciate what you are saying, but i think the whole problem of everything that we're going through in this country right now has to come down to one simple thing. and that is separate ralte racial of powers. now, a lot of people get this scon trude with oh, you mean separation of church and state. no. well, yes and no. in their derrick the church was the big power. kings and queens could not move without the permission of the church. nowadays it is big business. when you have big business influence washington, d.c., people like yourself, this is what you are going to get. you cannot have foxes guarding the hen house. host: all right. your response. guest: if you talk about specific tax credits, i think he's right. i don't think it is just big business. i think it is the aarp, i think it is the big labor unions. i think it is ever

joining me from washington as we begin our program is senator tom coburn of oklahoma. he recently pulled out of the bipartisan group of senators known as the gang of six. he was recently on this program and we had a thorough discussion of the issues and i'm not sure they have changed. senator, what did you think of what the president said today and obviously of what congress... house spker boehner said over the weekend. >> well, i think first of all the president realizes we have to get a big deal. as we discussed a couple of weeks ago or last week, charlie, if you don't send the appropriate signal to international financial communities, you can raise the debt ceiling but the interest costs are going to go through the roof. so it has to be a big deal and so i think he recognizes that. and i think speaker boehner subpoena looking at the reality of what's going to happen in 2013 without agreeing to what the president said. we're going to have 4.9% increases on taxes on everybody earning er $200,000 a year anyway just from the affordabl care act. so you'll see significant