we were also influenced by fidel castro and che guevera and patrice lamumba.g about transformation and we were thinking about freedom in the largest possible sense. >> so many of the memories in the public of the black panther party are with people standing around with gun, but there were programs. there were ideas and there was so much going on other than men toting gun, right? >> oh, absolutely. as a matter of fact, initially i would say the guns were more symbolic of resistance which isn't to say that members of the black panther party didn't have weapons. i had weapons myself at that time. it was a different era, but as you point out the black panther party had all kinds of programs. as a matter of fact, free breakfast program that is run by the department of agriculture. that idea emanated with the black panther party because the assumption was children could learn if they were hungry. very simple, but no one else had done it. >> if the panthers were so engaged and so involved and so committed and had such great ideas, how did they fall apart? why are are