for example, abu zubadia, the first question, i asked him his name. he gave me a wrong alias, so i looked at him in the face, and i said, what i if i call you hani. that was the name his mother nicknamed him as a childment he had that look, oh, my gosh, he got me. he started talking and gave actionable intelligence in the first hour of our interrogation. >> stephen: but it wasn't enough because they eventually brought in an outside contractor who water boarded him 83 times. >> exactly. >> stephen: so if you were getting good information, they wouldn't have given him the free swimming lessons. >> right. right. the 83 waterboarding sessions is just a perfect example how these techniques don't work because... >> stephen: what do you mean? >> you're not going to do 83 with him. i was there with khalid sheikh mohamed. these enhanced interrogation techniques that conclude with waterboarding, as appalling as they are to people in the west, it is nothing compared to what they are expecting to receive if they are caught in some eastern jail. >> stephen: right,