that was kurt anderson. kurt anderson later phoned me to deny the allegation, saying he has nothing bad to say on or off the record about herman cain and denies recalling that at the time. >> and kurt denied that to me. his brother, wes, who works with him said he recalls no conversations. kurt didn't relay to him. he doesn't recall cain ever saying that. gloria, this is from your article. i told my wife about this in 1999, and i've got nothing to hide, cain told me wednesday. when i sat down with kurt anderson in a private room in our campaign offices in 2003, we discussed opposition research on me. it was a typical campaign conversation. i told him there was only one case, one set of charges, one woman while i was at the national restaurant association. those charges were baseless, but i thought he needed to know about them. i don't recall anyone else in the room when i told him. number one, that should be a normal campaign conversation. you have a meeting and say, what's out there that could get me in tro

kurt anderson. mr. cain divulgeed the nra claims that time to the consultant. >> bret: national restaurant association. >> exactly. mr. anderson, so the campaign at that point would be prepared if the issue surfaced. it did not. approximately two weeks ago as you know, mr. anderson went to work for the rick perry campaign. what else happened about two weeks ago? politico began this smear campaign citing anonymous sources claiming mr. mccain acted inappropriately. >> bret: now let me say that kurt anderson has given politico a quote saying he didn't know about this before the story ran. he has great respect for herman cain and his character. i would never speak ill of him on the record or off the record. that is true today and it's not going to change. you say that is a lie? >> it's an outrage. as i said before, rick perry needs to apologize to herman cain and frankly to america. >> bret: another veteran pollster with the, used to be with the national restaurant association chris wilson. he is now working

kurt anderson says, no, he didn't.k you end up -- this is a person running for president of the united states and i think people who run for president are held to a very different standard or a high standard i should say and rightly so. and i think the issue does need to be resolved. one way or the other. either the women need to come out or the documents need to be released but i think now that the story has risen it needs to get resolved. >> ari, are you saying it's unfair to -- that it's stale story because he's denied it and no one has come forward? >> i'm saying the issues of the people focused on are all the sideshows. >> i agree. >> this is memory -- memory of three or four months severance or one year's severance, 35,000 or how much was it? these are all side issues that don't determine whether someone's a good president or not. it determines whether or not they know how to do the washington dance and survive the washington scandal. the only disqualifying issue in my judgment is if he's lying about sexual haras

he hired a general consultant, kurt anderson. mr. cain divulged the nra claims at that time to his general consultant -- >> national restaurant association. >> exactly. mr. anderson. so, the campaign at that point would be prepared if the issue surfaced. it did not. approximately two weeks ago as you know mr. anderson went to work for the rick perry campaign. what else happened about two weeks ago? politico began this smear campaign citing anonymous sources claiming mr. cain acted inappropriately. >> so, chuck, i mean, really in the weeds, talking about consultants and how this works. now, for the record, kurt anderson who advising the perry campaign has denied being involved. rick perry said no one in my campaign has any involvement in how this information got out. is this a strategy on herman cain's part to try and turn this story into sniping? it looks like a circular firing squad for republicans which, you know, probably doesn't help any of them. >> reporter: well, no, it does look like that this is the strategy that they sort of

that adviser, kurt anderson-s now a perry adviser, something the xacain people are pointing as evidence of a smear. it's confusing, i know. joining us is chief analyst gloria borger and senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin. gloria, you just got off the phone with the attorney for one of cain's accusers. who we spoke to last night. >> right. >> what did he tell you? what's the latest? >> this evening he's not speaking with us. he's speaking with his client. he's meeting with her. and she's the one who 12 years ago alleged sexual harassment against herman cain. and he told me that it is likely he will ask the restaurant association to allow his client to issue a statement under his name, without her name, to issue a statement saying that she vehemently denies cain's remarks and that she was sexually harass the, and he believes he needs permission from the restaurant association because he doesn't -- he wants to get an agreement from them that this would not be construed as a violation of her confidentiality agreement. >> but he's already said that. he said that on the program last night. a

a very difficult position for kurt anderson.is that curt anderson is being forced to go on national television to defend himself. he says he never had a conversation with herman cain, so now it's his word against herman cain's word about what exactly transpired. it muddies the water, now, too, is that anderson recently joined the rick perry campaign. so in simple terms, it seems like he would have something to do with it. but i thought anderson was very believable this morning when he was on "american morning" for his first interview saying he didn't do it. >> so, mark, another thing that struck us was he didn't personally come out and criticize cain. let's go ahead and take a listen to what he said when gloria asked if, indeed, he thought the campaign or herm kwan cain was lying. >> well, i'm not here to add any more name calling to what's already a -- >> my characterization. is he not telling the truth? >> i'm not going to, you know, attack him in any sort of personal way or anything. i will say this. this has been -- you know

when's the last time kurt anderson had a candidate with only one woman that he had to keep in the closet? surely it couldn't be that one woman that motivated curt anderson to work for the perry presidential campaign this season instead of the cain campaign. herman "sherlock" cain is certain they leaked the sexual harassment story to "politco." i've known herman cain for seven years. i was one of several consultants on his senate race in 2004 and was proud to help him. i'd never heard any of these allegations until i read them in politco nor does anything i read in the press change my opinion that herman cain is an upstanding man and a gentleman. i have great respect for herman cain and his character and i would never speak ill of him on the record or off the record. that's true today and it's not going to change." how classy is that? herman cain, accuses curt anderson of being a snake in the grass, a back stabber, a leaker, about that one woman and curt anderson responds with such an elegant declaration that herman cain is a liar, that people like herman cain and his followers won't even

he hired a general consultant, kurt anderson. mr. cain divulged the n.r.a.claims at that time to his general consultant. >> the national restaurant association. >> exactly. mr. anderson. so the campaign at that point would be prepared if the issue surfaced. >> jon: by 2011, his memory hadñr become... all faded. >> i am unaware of any sort of settlement. i hope it wasn't for much because i didn't do anything. >> jon: oh, you didn't? that's too bad because they paid her $482 million. and the second problem with herman cain's blame the media story line is that the first place cable news network is doing the best to help him. >> do you think others in the media have been giving too much credence to these right now anonymous allegations? politico chose not to name the women involved in these two cases which i found interesting. >> jon: very interesting. anyone who used anonymous sources should be drummed out of jumblism unless.... >> an unnamed senior white house official tells politico the union flushed ten million of their members' mone

told forbes magazine, i guess, in an interview that a guy working for rick perry by the name of kurt anderson is leaking this stuff about cain. we don't want to get into any of this. we don't know what happened. mr. anderson, i guess, denies it. of course he would. but the whole thing is a mess, right? >> the story was that anderson worked for cain when he ran for the senate six years ago. >> bill: unsuccessfully. >> yeah. >> bill: right. >> cain briefed him on the charge, the sexual harassment charge, said it was baseless. and then anderson was hired by perry a week before politico got the story and anderson regularly contributes to politico. so it's a circumstantial case but it's an interesting one. >> bill: all right. but it's a mess. >> yeah. it's a mess and nobody wins in this kind of stuff. as far as anybody directly involved. anderson or cain. now, you just heard michele bachmann. >> look, bill, i have been around a long time. and this is speed bump, pothole that happens in every campaign. george bush sr. was accused of having an affair. george bush 43 had a drunk driving thing that ca

according to herman cain himself, the perry connection comes from consultant kurt anderson, who culted cain during his 2003 senate run and who knew about the allegations. anderson denies any involvement, that cain's chief of staff mark block said he's convinced that the texas governor's campaign is to blame. >> the perry campaign needs to apologize to herman cain and his family, and america for this despicable actions. and quite frankly, politico, too. politico won't release any documentation or even admit that they spoke to these two women. why? because they have nothing and cited unnamed sources. >> governor perry insists his campaign had nothing to do with all this. saying quote i'm disappointed that there's finger-pointing going on. the perry campaign is doing just that. yesterday communications director shifted the blame to chief rival mitt romney. so if you follow this, cain campaign blames perry. perry campaign blaming the romney campaign. perry communications director saying there are much closer connections between the rest naunt association and cain and the romney camp than t

just this morning on "good morning america," his name is kurt anderson.ate a couple years ago. now the cane compaign has accused anderson of leaking this story. this sexual harassment story. i want to go straight to gloria borger. a fascinating interview you conducted with mr. anderson. let's just back up. big picture here, why is the cain campaign singling out curt anderson? >> that's a really good question. because a couple days ago, if you want to believe it, it kind of writes itself. curt anderson used to work for herman cain. helped him with his senate fwhid 2003, 2004. and so he is a former cain person who has now gone to work for rick perry within the last two weeks. and so herman cain says, you know what? when we had one of those conversations that every candidate has to have with his staff in which the staff says, now is there anything you need to tell me that if it could come up in the campaign, i need to know about it in advance. that herman cain says, you know what? i told this guy curt anderson about this charge of sexual harassment. so i put

tony febreeze sglau and kurt anderson's worked on his campaign staff in 2004. cain claims he briefed anderson. did either man have the motive to leak? yes. seven years after cain's failed senate run. the campaign was almost exactly the same. they paid staff about the stories. both staffers deny the leak. >> it may sound odd under these circumstances. i like her monday. i have great respect for them but this is not something he ever mentioned to me. >> they say lots of people knew about the campaign. kris wilson a gop pollster worked for the national restaurant association to ktok radio in oklahoma city. >> everybody knew in the campaign it would eventually come up. >> wilson is not objective either. he runs an oklahoma based political consulting firm aligned with a pro perry super pass. there is more evidence suggesting a perry link to the scandal. an arizona state representative who endorses perry wrote this tweet about the cain allegation four-days after anderson came into the plant. this is the same thing i am hearing in az. wait until they actually do the o

latest back and forth in this herman cain situation where wolf, as you know, herman cain accused kurt anderson, but i asked newt gingrich what he would think if it turned out that someone in the perry campaign had been involved and he did in the mince words. >> i have no idea. i would say if it turns out that a republican presidential candidate deliberately went out and created this kind of a story about a fellow candidate, that they would pretty rapidly become a pariah among the rest of us and they better fire the people who did it. >> in the next 24 hours, wolf. he was pretty passionate about that and there's been a lot of back and forth. so the speaker talked about that. we also had a very frank conversation about his desire to cut tax rate to an optional flat tax of 15%. obviously, that is something that would be far from revenue neutral, wolf. i had done the math on rick perry's 20% tax rate, which would require an additional $892 billion in cuts. just to hit his limits in the first year. obviously, gingrich with a lower tax rate would require more. he also talked about his recent rise to

they said that kurt anderson who worked for herm memory in '04, but they don't have the proof, they don'tyourself, and who are they? >> who was cain's chief rival when he was at godfather pizza. don't follow the money, follow the mottsrella. the bottom line, does america care? the mainstream media told us many times that sex doesn't many times that sex doesn't how they're handling this whole mess since. >> a girl 12 years ago. >> i'm pointing out that they're not acting this way, but the but it's not there are guy. it's a repudiation to the liberals. >> if you can't handle want heat, get out of the kitchen. he said there are no skeletons in my closet. who does not know enough about his own career that if you're serious about running for president, you better know these things, and plus, i have ten days. >> they were aware that this was a liability back in '04. well, if they knew that back in '04. >> why didn't they come out? i think its interesting, people must be taking herman cain more seriously now. >> the first rule of running for office is to hire a private investigator to investigat

megyn: you mentioned kurt anderson. our viewers may not know who that is. he's a gop strategist who tried to help herman cain get elected to the senate in '03-'04, a bid that was unsuccessful. he now works for the perry campaign, and you were on "special report" last night, and you were explicit about anderson being behind the leak to politico because he suggests herman cain had told anderson there was this allegation years earlier at the time anderson was helping cain. and two weeks ago he went to work for perry, and guess what allegations surfaced in the press? well, mr. anderson came on "happening now" earlier today -- >> yes, he did. megyn: -- and he denied that. i want to play you, in part, what he said. >> they've gone out and said, you know, some things about me that are not true. and, you know, i think in these situations this is exactly why people hate politics, all this foolishness. and the best thing to do in any situation like this is just tell the truth. and i didn't know about any of this stuff, and i didn't peddle it to any reporters. and, qu

we're going to talk to perry adviser kurt anderson.he center of this story about what the truth is. plus, political powerhouses with tough talk. senator alan simpson is here to tell us why he says enough is enough, and no one quite says it like alan simpson, bill. he's coming up. bill: that's true. yeah. everything that comes out of his mouth is another quote you can put on the mantle. jenna: that's right. bill: thank you. see you in ten minutes. eric holder facing calls to resign over fast and furious. what will the ag say in return? this is $100,000. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much, i appreciate it, i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money ? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense. where they grow america's favorite wpotoes. idaho, everyone knows idaho potatoes taste great. but did you know they'reood for you too? they're high in vitamins and potassium. and idaho potatoes are n

cain is pointing the finger at perry campaign worker kurt anderson. cain said he shared details with anderson in 2003 while anderson was working for cain's senate campaign. anderson denies involvement. >> the allegation that i had something to do with it, there is not a reporter or human being will say it's true because it's not. >> here's something interesting to note. the campaign covering governor perry said the team is being careful not to call cain a liar or personally attack cain since he remains popular with conservatives. cain avoided the chaotic scene that played out. he is laying low while still in washington, d.c. on the today show this morning, rnc chair talked about the fighting within the party and wouldn't take a position. here's what he to say. >> i'm not going to get in the middle of it. it's not my job to be the referee. >> you are the head of the rnc. >> of course i'm the head of the rnc, part is we don't pick winners and losers in presidential elections. you look at barack obama and hillary clinton, they fought it out through the e

that rick perry and the campaign owed cain's campaign and his family an apology, because a man, kurt anderson, who used to work for cain, was the pun that put this out. curt anderson sid he was not the leak. watch this. >> i really like herman cain. i have a tremendous amount of respect for him. i didn't know anything about this. it's hard to leak something you don't know anything about. it's just not true. >> now, i'm waiting to mark block to come fire back that you lie, and what are you talking about? and how could you do that? i demand the apology but look what mark block said? watch this. >> we were absolutely thrilled that he came on your show and said it wasn't. mr. cain always had the utmost respect for him. i want to say we accept what mr. anderson has said, and we want to move on with the campaign. >> nia, you were thrilled, you call the man out, you want the man has put the whole thing out, you call for an apology, and you come back and say i'm thrilled. we always liked the guy. then what were you talking about last night? >> right. this is just another reversal from this campaign.

of any kind of settlement and yet today the story came out that while he actually did talk to kurt anderson and they discussed it in detail, their words, not mine. so he opens the door to all of these questions and i think it's just going to end up being bad for him and i've seen the polls to how this translates to later on, how this is going to affect them. this is a bad move. this was sloppy. and the cain campaign is handling this in a very sloppy fashion. >> obviously the cain campaign has made a few missteps the last couple of days. the question is, are they doing anything right here? >> not that i can say. first of all, they have attacked conservatives and it sort of steps on his excuse. remember, up until today he said that this was a liberal conspiracy to and how does this fit into that scheme. and what you didn't mention was that mark block tipped off another incidents, which concerns an iowa talk show host. which is that cain came in to his studio and made a comment oh to their employees. the cain campaign, they seem to be building and building and building and making this worse ev

that being former cain associate kurt anderson.s chief of staff mark block told megyn kelly on american live today that he accepts anderson's explanation that he had nothing to do with the leak. >> we were absolutely thrilled that he came on your show and said that it wasn't. because mr. cain has always had the utmost respect for him. i'm going to do the same thing that mr. anderson has done. and move on, talk about issues. and get off of this silliness as he called it and let's get on with the campaign. >> earlier today anderson told fox news that he was per perplexed as to why he was wrongly fingered leaking settlement and from candidate and campaign that he admired. >> all a person really has, you know, in this life is their integrity and their character. you know, i didn't know anything about. this and certainly didn't peddle it. >> the perry's campaign is r. all over the leaks. he is sticking to that is right path the story. >> we are getting a clue i guess. read on a couple of sites about the money involved in these settlemen

the '90s was leaked to the press, one of cain's first inclinations was to point the finger at kurt andersonentioned it to anderson when he worked on his campaign. but if cain knew about this storm on the who are done why did he seem so unprepared when this story broke. that's "fair game" for my guest today. maria cardona, herman cain was approached by politico. are you surprised by how cain has handled the story that apparently he had to know was coming? >> yeah. it's absolutely baffling to me, randi, that anybody who was seriously looking to run for president would not have gotten together with his advisors, his campaign, his family and made a list of any of the issues that could come back and haunt him this way, and then made a plan for if and when those issues came up. to me, that goes back to a theory i've had about herman cain from the very beginning, is he was never in this to win this and his surge in the polls has surprised even him. because the fact that he did not have that planned and he has broken two huge rules when it comes to crisis communications -- the first is not having a

consultant his name is kurt anderson who actually worked for herman cain's failed 2004 senate bid and now works for perry's presidential bid. cain says he briefed anderson personally on the sexual harassment allegations back in 2003 during cain's senate campaign and that anderson is the source of this story but mr. anderson has issued a statement denying that directly and contradicting cain's assertion that he, mr. anderson, had been briefed, quote: i had never heard any of these allegations until i read them in politico. nor does anything i read in my press -- in the press change my opinion that herman cain is an outstanding man and gentleman. i have great respect for herman and his character and i would never speak ill of him. for the record the communications director ray sullivan has also so issued a statement saying, quote: no one in our campaign was involved in this story in any way. any claim to the contrary is patently false. the first we learned of it is when we read the story in politico. also worth noting, shep, that perry aids have been quick to point out that many romney

today kurt anderson, who now works for the perry camp, says he was not the source of the leak. >> and i didn't know about any of this stuff. and i didn't peddle it to any reporters. >> herman cain's campaign chief had strongly accused anderson yesterday, but today he backed off. >> until we get all the facts, you know, i'm just going to say that we accept what mr. anderson had said and we want to move on with the campaign. >> but the campaign is still blaming the perry camp. and there is more. back in march of this year in a conference call with conservative bloggers herman cain was asked directly if he had any skeletons in his closet. >> so, no, i don't have any of those kind of skeletons in my closet. and what i have told people, if they come up with something to try to damage my reputation they will have made it up. >> and for those of you who are just now joining the herman cain saga slash story, karl rove is more than happy to sum it all up. >> it's been a bad week because he's had shifting stories. first this was a smear. thn he then he didn't know anything about it. and then he

of any kind of settlement and then yet today the story came out today that, well, he talked to kurt anderson and discussed it in detail. their words, not mine. so he opens the door to all of these questions and i think it's just going to -- i think it is just ended up being bad for him. i'm very interested in seeing his polling numbers from quinnipiac and everything else today to how it translates later on and affect him. i just think it's -- this was a bad move. this was sloppy. an enthe cain campaign is handling this in a sloppy fashion. >> jennifer, to day in's point, they're making more than missteps. are they doing anything right here? >> not that i can see. first of all, they have attacked another individual in the race which is probably not going to endear him to conservatives and steps on the excuse. remember, up until today the excuse was that this was some kind of liberal conservative to get rid of a black conservative. well, how does rick perry fit in that to scheme? just about everything he does pours oil on the flames here. what you didn't mention was that mark block was actuall

herman cain says this man, kurt anderson, is responsible for leaking the story to politico. mr. anderson was a consultant to herman cain when he was running for the senate back in 2003 and he knew vital information about herman cain which he could have given to the perry camp. well, herman cain's campaign manager, mark block, said this. >> the actions of the perry campaign are despicable. rick perry and his campaign owe herman cain and his family an apology. in 2003, herman cain ran for the senate. he hired a general consultant, curt anderson. mr. cain divulged the nra claims to -- >> national restaurant association. >> exactly. mr. anderson. so the campaign at that point would be prepared if the issue surfaced. it did not. approximately two weeks ago, as you know, mr. anderson went to work for the rick perry campaign. what else happened about two weeks ago? politico began this smear campaign citing anonymous sources claiming mr. cain acted inappropriately. >> mr. anderson told "forbes" he was not the source of the leak. a perry spokesman told nbc news tonight, no one in our cam