across not libya i'm joined by dr venter while in hanover he is an associate professor of government at dartmouth college in paris we crossed at the end of jonestown she is an independent political commentator and author of fools crusade yugoslavia nato and western delusions and in london we have nick mayo he is a foreign correspondent for the sunday telegraph all right folks this is cross talk to me as you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it and i'd like to first go to diana diana is the the intervention that we saw nato undergo was it an intervention without responsibility because libya is a mess and it's getting messier all the time particularly in light of the last few hours a day or so of torture charges in the n.p.c. is proving to be very very inept. well that was perfectly foreseeable when you when you go in and change a regime by bombing you you're causing chaos. and they didn't seem to care that they were going to be causing chaos because they didn't like gadhafi and they seized an opportunity to get rid of leader that they didn't like figuring perhaps