i am not karen denne, enron representative any more. at the time i was.t was something i live with. it was a strong experience. the people who were involved in the criminal activity are doing time. [inaudible] >> question for john emshwiller. in the five years that separated a precipitation of the collapse and the criminal findings, the derivatives market grew even bigger and mushroomed even more and it seemed like that development was missed by financial reporters. what explains the identification of those risks posed by derivative instruments with enron, worldcom and others? what created that? people get so captivated by the hubris represented by the ceos like kenneth way and dennis k l kozlowski that they get fixated on the individuals and it really dig into the systemic questions that were being posed by these instruments that ended up leaving in the 2007-2008 collapse. what was going on with the investigative reporting around derivatives during that first half of the decade of the twenty-first century? >> most reporters don't understand derivatives s