and scowcroft says, no. if you make the argument, everybody's just going to follow you whether they believe it or not because you're the president. let me make the argument. they'll argue with me if they want, but i will make it clearly, and then if you agree, you can then move policy in that direction. so they remeet, scowcroft makes this very articulate argument in favor of moving, of confronting the iraqis. excuse me. taking a clear stand. and they do so. first, they send a bunch of troops to saudi arabia, and later they double the troop commitment and finally, as we know, ordered a -- but in the meantime, they also negotiated a worldwide alliance against saddam which was very, very effective. and james baker, secretary of state, was instrumental in doing that. >> host: we are here at the university of maryland, and we are talking with i.m. destler, professor here. he is the co-author of this book, "in the shadow of the oval office: profiles of the national security advisers and the presidents they served

, the director of the international security program here, which will be relaunched as the brent scowcroft and on international security this september, will moderate a discussion with the general. berry has joined us from a long interesting was career in the pentagon in the white house. i just wants a couple of things about general bouchard. because his career has been a long and distinguished ones leading up to the operation, he was in tactical aviation within the canadian forces air command which include applying positions and several squadrons, demand