ultimately the treaty was signed in the clinton administration at the very end of the administratio administration. >> so i want to have harold an opportunity to respond and maybe just picking up on david to bring the story of the international criminal court. well, actually let me back up. i would like you to respond, your general reaction to both of these men from your perch now with someone in the government having to deal with these issues on a practical level and then we'll come back to the international criminal court. >> well, my strongest reaction -- i got a book out there. but anyway you can't do that in the government. i should also say what a thrill to be here and with bill shawcross, david scheffer and i were college freshman 41 years ago and he's from oklahoma. my roommate was from oklahoma and since he was from oklahoma and i was a core ren civics major i'll see you in 40 years at the holocaust museum and here we are. [laughter] >> i think i have a couple of reactions. one is, how difficult the challenge that both books are describing is because it's a two-sided coin. first is, how i