jesselyn radack, what is it they are warning?ave met with them and we have briefed them including was a blowers along with tom drake at the nsa. with their informed speculation of what some of the secret interpretations might be. i do think they're signalling very strongly -- i mean, this is where we need a whistleblower. yet, we have seen what happens in terms of tom drake being -- to try to be prosecuted and the others all been targeted. here they are again coming forward in wired magazine. on your show today. america owes them a huge debt of gratitude. we need more people to come forward, a lot of people know what they're talking about. >> what is it they're talking about? >> i will let tom >> it is pretty clear. section 215, the secret interpretation. basically, grants the government access to all business records. subscriber information, phone records. under it section 215, the cover , a blanket access to all those records. in essence, those companies are essentially forced under the rubric in the rules of national security