to cross-talk collectivism i'm joined by alex halladay in new york is president of the association of internet researchers also in new york we have john perry barlow he is co-founder of the electronic frontier foundation and a fellow at harvard law school's berkman center for internet and society and in stockholm we got to get a lot of ink he is a media firas internet critic and author of networks without a cause all right gentlemen this is cross-eyed that means you can jump in anytime you want to gird if i go to you first in stockholm can clicking and sharing change the world. well in itself it's might not be very meaningful but from a perspective of social movements it's really interesting what comes after the residue how it brings people together what we call you know organized networks they are going to replace the old forms of political parties and trade unions and these are you know dense forms of organized. heavily supported by networked technologies that are somewhat smaller units than what we see now you know what we see now is television spectacle you know if for instance at